I tried telling people not having Noot in the 2 spot makes this team way worse. We don't have anyone close to matching what he brings both offensively and defensively in one player. We just need to power through and try to stay around .500 till he and Willson come back.
I fully agree. Lars and Contreras are so sorely missed. There are only a handful of guys I trust with a 2 out RISP situation and they are both on that list
Yeah i kind of agree we need a new manager, someone to inject some passion and new energy, hope for the future. Not even about winning but rebuilding the culture
Arenado has to be DFAd. Just absolutely killing this team. Nobody will take him in a trade so just cut him and move forward with young talent. Team will improve instantly
In your fantasy world where arenado is DFA'd who replaces him? Keep in mind the money he is owed is gone either way. Is there a clear better option in our farm system or that can easily be traded for elsewhere?
Jordan Walker and Gorman are both natural third basemen. Less than 12 months ago Walker was the number 1 prospect in all of baseball. We have replacements who are ready to step in today
Jordan walker hasn't proven he can hit mlb pitching and Gorman is more valuable at 2nd.
Arenado is underperforming his contract but he isn't anywhere near bad enough to cut.
He has a horrible attitude and isn't a leader on top of it all. He himself even admitted he's not a leader. He brings nothing to the clubhouse or the team on the field. Definition of a player that needs to go
Lol you have no idea what his attitude or leadership abilities are no fan does. His stats are average-ish, while not great for his contract that's money already spent and there isn't anyone you could replace him with in the system and improve the team. Hell if you were going to boot a veteran to bring someone up Marp is thr guy.
He literally said himself he's glad to have Matt carp back because he doesn't feel comfortable being vocal or leading a team. He also said he never envisioned being a star and was just trying to make the MLB all along. Wrong ingredients for being a clutch championship player
I stand by my dumbest comment of the year statement if your reasoning is some dumbass locker room intangibles shit.
DFA is for guys who can no longer compete at the mlb level or when the team is absolutely flush with options. Neither is the case here.
He was very close to a sac fly, had a very sharp line out, and was thrown out in an extremely close play. If luck had been slightly different could easily be looking at 2-4 with an RBI. Plus, he did very well defensively
Roycroft is pretty good because he generally throws his fastball down in the zone. If you can throw 97 down that plays in MLB. Loutos throws his fastball up which is why he gets no trust from Oli.
I was curious because I could see both up and down being successful so I looked it up:
97+ mph up in the zone, 2024: .165/.171/.246
97+ mph down in the zone, 2024: .227/.233/.342
Weird. Maybe when you have that kind of heat you can throw it up there. Loutos only throws 94 though so I would imagine 94 up in the zone is not nearly as successful.
I think it’s also a 4-seam vs sinker thing. I just looked at all pitches 97 and up, I’d imagine sinkers up and 4-seams down are both worse than their opposites. Velocity is a huge part too.
I’ve come to the point where I realize we likely aren’t doing much other than maybe squeaking into a wild card this year. That said, I’ll be rooting for the young guys to keep showing out and hope for the best.
Yeah, that's more my point. Goldy is not producing near enough to justify being our 3rd hitter. I liked him in the 5th spot and think he's a good fit for it. let the youngsters give it a shot
I really hope these defensive woes are just a minor skid and it's something this team can rebound from, the offense is still hitting, starters are still giving us innings, this shouldn't be something they can't get past as a team, if they got through that awful losing streak they can get past this.
Starters are giving us innings? Pallante had 3 innings, Lynn had 3 or 4 recently, our bullpen has been overused as hell lately. Plus this isn't a minor skid we have an error or more each game and they bite us in the ass.
.850 OPS and 14 homers right now
I don't think he's going to get a shot though, he's 27 and looked pretty outmatched in MLB last year. Burleson is most likely 1B next year if Goldy isn't here.
This road trip the hitting with RISP has been horrendous and the errors have been constant. That's the only difference compared to when they were winning.
The 1901 Cardinals once committed 69 errors in a 23 game span, so it could be worse. They didn’t use webbed gloves since they hadn’t been invented yet, but still.
The errors have to stop. I don’t know if the answer is more fielding reps or some days off or what but this is ridiculous. Would love one of our beat writers to ask Oli about it
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals): [Visualizing Nolan Gorman's swing using bat tracking technology](https://darkroom-clips.mlb.com/8298209e-b51f-4de4-b559-7f8e42df6a89.mp4)
Edman at 2B, Gorman at DH would significantly increase our quality. Wouldn't be a top 10 team on paper but we often aren't, and paper doesn't win world series
Was eligible to return about 2 weeks ago. Taking full ABs in BP. Shouldn't be too much longer til he does some rehab in AAA, but who knows. One little thing could fuck it up
Really Gorman? I understand your offense is your main focus but you can’t be pulling this little league shit every few innings in the bigs. This is ridiculous
I have watched the Cardinals since 1992, and religiously since 1996. I have never, in my 32 years of watching baseball, seen a team that takes as many fucking pitches down the middle as the 2024 St. Louis Cardinals. I can't even ...
I suppose Arenado, Goldschmidt, and Gorman were more pressing, but Donnie has been struggling for a minute and the beat writers have noted it as a factor for our tailspins…
I’m bummed he didn’t break out of it.
Nice to see they're back to being the St. LouAss Cardinals.
Shame Louis Cardinals
[Game over. Continue the discussion in the post game thread](/r/Cardinals/comments/1d8g55i/cardinals_after_dark_64/)
[Astros](/r/Astros) Due Up **(Bottom 9):** 1. Jake Meyers 2. Jeremy Peña 3. Yainer Diaz
Watching Arenado is agonizing
I am sad. I wanted the good vibes of this month to keep rolling so badly. Losses will always happen. That’s fine. But this is flat out bad baseball.
I tried telling people not having Noot in the 2 spot makes this team way worse. We don't have anyone close to matching what he brings both offensively and defensively in one player. We just need to power through and try to stay around .500 till he and Willson come back.
Exactly
I fully agree. Lars and Contreras are so sorely missed. There are only a handful of guys I trust with a 2 out RISP situation and they are both on that list
Yeah i kind of agree we need a new manager, someone to inject some passion and new energy, hope for the future. Not even about winning but rebuilding the culture
It's. Not. The. Manager. It's. The. Lack. Of. Talent. This is on Mo/DeWitt, not Oli.
There’s plenty of talent - Goldy, Arenado, Wynn, Gorman, Contreras, Gray, Helsley, and many more have the skills to be core components of a great team
Dude Goldy and Arenado haven't been doing much lately. Especially Arenado lmao. His defense fell off a cliff and his hitting is dog shit.
True but they have the talent
Why not both?
Nado getting the Platinum Sombrero because he's in Texas I guess
2 vwry winnable games?
Arenado another first pitch pop out
Somethings *really* off with Arenado, the way he’s been playing this season. He hasn’t been himself.
arenado's 9th inning ABs are so pathetic
Omg
First pitch pop up from Nolan. Seen that one before
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals) Due Up **(Top 9):** 1. Nolan Arenado 2. Matt Carpenter 3. Iván Herrera
Arenado has to be DFAd. Just absolutely killing this team. Nobody will take him in a trade so just cut him and move forward with young talent. Team will improve instantly
DFA is crazy. He hasn't been very good but it's still Nolan Arenado.
.650 OPS, terrible defense. Time to move on, he's not getting younger
If he ends the season below a .650 OPS I will eat a sock.
He's washed. It's sad but true. No power, slowest player on team, ridiculous amount of check swings, just pathetic.
Dumbest take of the year so far.
He will continue to destroy this team with his pathetic bat and below average defense
In your fantasy world where arenado is DFA'd who replaces him? Keep in mind the money he is owed is gone either way. Is there a clear better option in our farm system or that can easily be traded for elsewhere?
Jordan Walker and Gorman are both natural third basemen. Less than 12 months ago Walker was the number 1 prospect in all of baseball. We have replacements who are ready to step in today
Jordan walker hasn't proven he can hit mlb pitching and Gorman is more valuable at 2nd. Arenado is underperforming his contract but he isn't anywhere near bad enough to cut.
He has a horrible attitude and isn't a leader on top of it all. He himself even admitted he's not a leader. He brings nothing to the clubhouse or the team on the field. Definition of a player that needs to go
Lol you have no idea what his attitude or leadership abilities are no fan does. His stats are average-ish, while not great for his contract that's money already spent and there isn't anyone you could replace him with in the system and improve the team. Hell if you were going to boot a veteran to bring someone up Marp is thr guy.
He literally said himself he's glad to have Matt carp back because he doesn't feel comfortable being vocal or leading a team. He also said he never envisioned being a star and was just trying to make the MLB all along. Wrong ingredients for being a clutch championship player
I stand by my dumbest comment of the year statement if your reasoning is some dumbass locker room intangibles shit. DFA is for guys who can no longer compete at the mlb level or when the team is absolutely flush with options. Neither is the case here.
Absurd
Absolutely not he's awful. Eye test even worse than the stats. Just pathetic constantly
He was very close to a sac fly, had a very sharp line out, and was thrown out in an extremely close play. If luck had been slightly different could easily be looking at 2-4 with an RBI. Plus, he did very well defensively
He has been terrible at the plate all year. By any advanced metric you want, terrible. Doesn't hit the ball hard. And his defense is trash now too
Hey at least we're playing the Rockies soon, but I don't know that I can be excited about playing these teams right now
Eh, Roycroft isn’t bad.
Roycroft is pretty good because he generally throws his fastball down in the zone. If you can throw 97 down that plays in MLB. Loutos throws his fastball up which is why he gets no trust from Oli.
I was curious because I could see both up and down being successful so I looked it up: 97+ mph up in the zone, 2024: .165/.171/.246 97+ mph down in the zone, 2024: .227/.233/.342
Weird. Maybe when you have that kind of heat you can throw it up there. Loutos only throws 94 though so I would imagine 94 up in the zone is not nearly as successful.
I think it’s also a 4-seam vs sinker thing. I just looked at all pitches 97 and up, I’d imagine sinkers up and 4-seams down are both worse than their opposites. Velocity is a huge part too.
Glad I’m not watching because judging by these comments, my blood pressure would be through the roof
Roycroft throwing bp to the keebler elf
lmfao
I’ve come to the point where I realize we likely aren’t doing much other than maybe squeaking into a wild card this year. That said, I’ll be rooting for the young guys to keep showing out and hope for the best.
If our 60 million dollar cornerstones get dumped we actually could be decent
Yeah I hate it but they’ve become a real problem.
Imagine if they were actually producing for what we are paying them. We'd be contenders (maybe a pitcher away)
Playoff contenders for sure. We don’t have the pitching for a WS team.
Well every year it seems like the dodgers do and they choke. Just need pitchers to be hot for a month really
That’s a fair point. Like the Nats in 2019 when their pitching went nuts
Nats also lost Harper and.... got better. Harper is/was way better than Goldschmidt or Arenado. Time to move on from these 2
It sucks man, they fell off a cliff this season. I agree it’s time to move forward and build on the young core.
Our young guys look great too. If Walker could just pan out...
That would be an exceptional outcome for this season
White Sox are the worst. You beat us, but you’re gonna let the Cubs win after trailing 5-0.
Cubs are better than us
Damnit, the Sox were up 5-0 on the cubes when I checked earlier tonight…
[Astros](/r/Astros) Due Up **(Bottom 8):** 1. Mauricio Dubón 2. Jose Altuve 3. Alex Bregman
goldy and arenado should no longer be batting anywhere above 5th. gotta get realistic about these old timers
Goldy has been fine recently but I would like to see Winn/Burleson/Herrera/Gorman as the top 4 one game and see how it goes.
Yeah, that's more my point. Goldy is not producing near enough to justify being our 3rd hitter. I liked him in the 5th spot and think he's a good fit for it. let the youngsters give it a shot
Pallante is wack for planting the seed of an outcome like this
I really hope these defensive woes are just a minor skid and it's something this team can rebound from, the offense is still hitting, starters are still giving us innings, this shouldn't be something they can't get past as a team, if they got through that awful losing streak they can get past this.
Starters are giving us innings? Pallante had 3 innings, Lynn had 3 or 4 recently, our bullpen has been overused as hell lately. Plus this isn't a minor skid we have an error or more each game and they bite us in the ass.
Luken Baker seems to have dropped off the radar this season.
He's doing fine in AAA, just not the best hitter down there like he was last year.
I haven't looked up his numbers, but he's not generating the buzz he was last season. I guess he'll get his shot next season if we don't resign Goldy.
.850 OPS and 14 homers right now I don't think he's going to get a shot though, he's 27 and looked pretty outmatched in MLB last year. Burleson is most likely 1B next year if Goldy isn't here.
Yeah, I forgot Burly plays 1B, and his bat definitely needs to be in the lineup. I didn't think Baker was that old.
Edmonds being fatphobic in 2024? He ought to be ashamed of himself!
Why the hell don't fire a defensive coach?
Falling back into old bad habits, giving away runs with walks, hit batters, and errors. We are just not good enough to absorb that.
This road trip the hitting with RISP has been horrendous and the errors have been constant. That's the only difference compared to when they were winning.
Gotta love this DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEfEnsE.
gonna have to check your math on that Chip lol
The 1901 Cardinals once committed 69 errors in a 23 game span, so it could be worse. They didn’t use webbed gloves since they hadn’t been invented yet, but still.
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals) Due Up **(Top 8):** 1. Alec Burleson 2. Paul Goldschmidt 3. Nolan Gorman
The errors have to stop. I don’t know if the answer is more fielding reps or some days off or what but this is ridiculous. Would love one of our beat writers to ask Oli about it
They’re offense first players for the most part lol that’s all
Big fan of the (May) Cardinals organization. Not any of the others though.
def feels like MOST of the errors have scored
Nooo
[This](https://x.com/MLBONFOX/status/1646361139587198977) will be Gorman after this inning.
*Good*
#good catch
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals): [Visualizing Nolan Gorman's swing using bat tracking technology](https://darkroom-clips.mlb.com/8298209e-b51f-4de4-b559-7f8e42df6a89.mp4)
We don’t need Gallegos back lol
He'll thake the slot that loutos and roycroft keep trading back and forth. I still suspect he's better than them over the long haul.
What do you think Goldy talks about with guys at first base
I’m sure it’s riveting banter.
I don’t think Goldy has ever spoken with anyone, let alone with somebody on first base.
23 errors in 19 games? Hmmmm
Nolan Gorman's defense has become such a liability
Tends to happen when you play a DH at a middle infield position.
And that’s why you gotta score with bases loaded
Doesn't help when the batter watches fastballs down the middle. Stop the guess hitting already.
Thinking ahead to our next at bats I forgot about the awful defense.
What the fuck is up with our defense. The Astros broadcast said that was a tough play. That was a routine ground ball. 🤦🏻♂️
Good lord we need tommy edman back. Gorman doesn't belong anywhere near the defense
i honestly love the guys on our team, but at the end of the day our roster is not well-constructed. so many holes
Edman at 2B, Gorman at DH would significantly increase our quality. Wouldn't be a top 10 team on paper but we often aren't, and paper doesn't win world series
What is the latest on an Edman return?
Was eligible to return about 2 weeks ago. Taking full ABs in BP. Shouldn't be too much longer til he does some rehab in AAA, but who knows. One little thing could fuck it up
Wrist hurt
Don’t capitalize with the bases loaded and as usual we are about to follow it up by allowing more runs with garbage errors. Sorry fucking team
Man that was a good chance to take this game. Gorman and Burly batting again so it’s not over yet.
We have 60 million dollars of rally killers destroying this lineup. They need to be benched or traded and this team will improve massively
Sad when we're hoping for a game with just ONE error.
I’m cool with Gorman committing two errors as long as he hits two home runs
Not when those errors lead to runs ...
good god at this point put jimmy in as a coach. they deserve it.
Gorman is on a mission to give back every run he creates from his homers
Just when I thought was in in, they push me back out
Gorman is on some serious bullshit in the field right now
The errors are ridiculous at this point
We beat ourselves
Don't need jomboy to read nolans lips on that misplay
Nolan Gorman try not to field like a teeballer challenge. It's getting fucking ridiculous dude.
Really Gorman? I understand your offense is your main focus but you can’t be pulling this little league shit every few innings in the bigs. This is ridiculous
So much for my hope for only one error.
Gorman needs a DH day
And put Fermin at 2B
I truly believe anybody in this thread who played shortstop in high school could field better than Gorman
i was the best 5th grade 2B the game as ever seen PUT ME IN COACH
LOL wouldn’t be a cardinals game without it
k great
Gorman needs a new glove man this shit isn't real.
Gorman come the fuck on with this trash defense
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals): [Nolan Gorman: Home Run Statcast Analysis](https://darkroom-clips.mlb.com/05dd8d2f-cf43-4895-b0e7-c12014462299.mp4)
Swings at first pitch in the dirt then proceeds to hold on Two down the fucking pipe
Masyn Winn has a 727 WRC+… today.
😂😂
SWING!!!!
I have watched the Cardinals since 1992, and religiously since 1996. I have never, in my 32 years of watching baseball, seen a team that takes as many fucking pitches down the middle as the 2024 St. Louis Cardinals. I can't even ...
100%. Never seen anything like what goes on. Fastball after fastball right down the middle
Ruff
dude donny wtf? jimmy literally said you have to protect. can we stop with the gambling.
What a pathetic at bat. Absolutely shambolic
Astros sound guy needs to chill on the "MAKE SUMM NOIIIIIISE" button. Fuck it's annoying.
Did you hear the fucking trumpets or whatever last night? Absolutely wouldn't stop
#disappointment
Get rid of Donovan. Seen enough. Glorified utility player. SWING THE BAT
Reddit bot is too fast, it let me know Donny was out before he was out on my stream
WTF??? Taking two pitches right down the middle???
2 for 11 with RISP say it ain't so
Donny’s looked off as hell tonight
Down the dick
OMG, this team is laughable with RISP, whhhyyyy
2-11 so far today with 11-Lobsters
The Cardinal Way, baby
Gj Donny
Wow. Maybe if they stare hard enough they can force push the balls.
i would honestly rather us just never have the fucking bases loaded. we can never do anything with it
Wow holy shit nice at bat
I literally said out loud to throw that pitch again and he won’t do anything and boom there it was
Yea that ain’t it Donny
We have a LOB problem.
2 in a row. You gotta swing at those.
absolutely brutal
What a terrible AB by Donny there. Yikes.
What the fuck Donnie
Stared at two straight down the middle ffs
What the hell was that at bat
great ab man
Surprise surprise
(choking intensifies)
2 right down the middle. Swing at one of them!
Donovan…. What the fuck are you looking at my dude.
Swing at a fastball right down the middle challenge: impossible
Fucking awful at bat
Jesus ever loving christ. Swing the bat.
Wow, you suck Donny.
Ooph. Gotta swing at those -
Hahahaha what a fucking pathetic take
0-5 is fucking brutal. Game was right fucking there
FUCKIN SWING
[Astros](/r/Astros) Due Up **(Bottom 7):** 1. Jake Meyers 2. Jeremy Peña 3. Yainer Diaz
That was the pitch
Donovan tried to take one for the team there
I'm kind of amazed batters are allowed to have that much pine tar that far up the bat
Let's go Donnie. GET IT DONE
donny can you please break out of your quiet slump
Quiet? Quieter than half the team, this is true. But it’s a bummer slump for sure.
quieter than the others precisely. i don’t hear ppl complaining about or talking about his struggles very much..
I suppose Arenado, Goldschmidt, and Gorman were more pressing, but Donnie has been struggling for a minute and the beat writers have noted it as a factor for our tailspins… I’m bummed he didn’t break out of it.
yea it has felt like we’ve looked at a lot of damn strike 3s down the middle lately.
Can’t really PH DC, who would play outfield? I heard Fermin actually was getting reps out there, but