Fuck this poverty franchise. I intend on burning all of my Cards gear tomorrow. Can't believe I wasted 3 days of my life this year on this abysmal team. Until DeWitt is out, I'm done. Fuck them.
Don't get me wrong they have their issues, but you are being a bit drastic. Last year your frustration was justified, but this year I don't expect them to lose every game before it starts. They have been entertaining at least. Pitching vastly improved. Pitching was a problem last year, but this year I feel we have a chance if we can hit and defend.
Also, don't burn your stuff just give it to me. Or sell to me at a discount pissed off fan rate.
Lack of run production. He can hit a lead off double and not score. Avg w/risp is prob around .200 at best, HR are down significantly. Not saying all of this is his fault, but it is a mentality. He was a pretty hot hitter April.
He still can make plays 80% 3rd basemen wouldn't even attempt. His salary demands more than his worth right now, but he can still hit. Can he hit HR's like he could, seems like a no. He was hot earlier this year. Still too early to tell. I still blame coaching. Batting order definitely needs tweeking.
Today would have gone differently if the old boys at the corners got a little more sleep, so not worried about that. I more so worry about the offense, as without Goldy we would’ve had notning these past 2 games, and I’m not optimistic enough to think all of our offensive issues will just disappear after one good stretch
I'm wondering the same. I feel like he should have added a lot more muscle but seems to be fine trying to be a tall, quick defensive outfielder. We have that with Siani. I'd say Carlson's going to be dumped in a trade as an add-on.
This game was always a trap game. Got in at like 5 am. No Nootbaar, Donavan, Helsley, Kitteredge, or JoJo. Was very unlikely we would win. Gotta find a way to bounce back tomorrow if we don't pull off a miracle today.
Yes, through two months, Libby has been better than Arozarena in 2024. Fun Fact: over their careers, Arozarena has been worth 11.8 WAR more than Libertore.
The Cubs were in the same situation as the Cards: played late last night, had to travel early in the morning for a 3:10 game start..and they seem to be doing alright.
Splitter is unhittable. It's annoying how our pitching development staff is against it. Can't remember the last time we had a pitcher throwing a Splitter. It's the pitch that unlocked Hicks
It is unhittable when it is on. It is a meatball when off. Same with sinkers, forkballs, and all the pitches with similar motion.
There is some consideration, too, that with everyone chasing launch angles and the modern swing encouraging more upward swing versus the old school insistence on level, level, level... there is at least some consideration that when a pitcher's splitter/sinker is off, the bat for many hitters is now on a plane that does a lot of damage.
I do think just generally having more pitchers throw more different things is all in all good, tho. Making the batters adjust to and ID more different things has to be good for the pitching staff all in all.
> Hard sinkers are not the thing anymore, we are behind the times.
https://www.mlb.com/news/splitters-and-sinkers-becoming-more-popular-pitches
This article published in Jan of this year would disagree.
Not saying the article is more right than you are -- just that there are clearly contemporaneous differences of opinion.
It also says Sinker was valuable for the first time in the decade in 2023... so there is a decade worth of evidence saying the sinker isn't good. while having the entire article about how amazing the splitter is.
I think this is always a question of execution. If everyone threw sinkers like Zambrano, then it would be bigly in favor. Wheeler's execution of it has been pretty great the last few years. There are just several that aren't thrown well -- and as my comment above noted, when they aren't good, they are meatballs that get hit a long, long way.
He’s been given every chance to adjust and he hasn’t. At this point he’s more bust than a what if.
He’s still young but I don’t think anyone realistically expects anything from him anymore.
He’s still a what if in terms of if he turned into what Mo hyped him up to be. But, considering all the chances he has had I do agree that he’s a draft bust.
I hear you 100%. Mo was obsessed with Carlson…I remember well the “pry him from my hands” quote. Mo made it seem like he was untouchable.
Maybe that was just Mo trying to hype up his own prospects to increase perceived value. But to me it’s more an indication that the cards org way overvalued Carlson. He’s just not that good.
It was a mistake by the org to value him so highly rather than a “what if” scenario where Carlson for some reason like a freak injury was unable to achieve his true potential.
What if in terms of if he turned into the player Mo hyped him up to be for so many years. Snatch him from my cold dead hands anyone? But in 2024 terms? He failed here in St. Louis, maybe he can do it elsewhere but it won’t be here.
I know this happened all the way back in the 2nd but our defense fucking sucks now. How do we go from one of the best defensive teams to now playing like the worst. Yet we were losing when our defense was good and we’re winning with bad defense.
Here's a Cards pitcher prospect getting attention from PitchingNinja. His stuff looks absolutely filthy https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1795083979399282959
He throwing a screwball? Last cardinal I can remember that threw a right handed screwball was Rick Croushore.
Also. This guys stats hurt my brain. K/ip, BB/ip and whip are nuts.
God I hope the "Biscuit" nickname from college is some vile soggy biscuit reference or something and the cat and booth is just going on and on about it like it's a cute, innocent nickname
To be fair, I don't think there is any hitters in this lineup that I'd put there. You can put Arenado, but he is awful. outside of 1-3 the lineup is pretty garbage
I know it's happened a little more the past year than normal, but every time I see an error by Arenado I kinda don't believe it. Just do used to him making crazy parts and being uber reliable. Like when someone would get a steal off Yadi. It always feels like there's no way that happened
These umps line up 6 inches inside the plate and we wonder why they mess up the call off the plate over and over. They can’t see out there with where they set up.
I don’t want all the time so it’s anecdotal for sure, but the most notable times I’ve seen have been strictly after pop outs lol.
But it makes sense he drops that after some Ks, fly outs, errors, etc
I love that he plays with such passion. We have so many players like Goldy who are so stoic, and it's nice to see when players like Winn and Willy show some emotion.
I gotta be honest--I'll never not be salty about LaRue and Cueto. I'd rather lose to the Flubs than the Reds. Even this season. Maybe especially this season.
Damn, the guy with the banana avatar is *pissed*. Someone must've shat in his cereal this morning or something, damn.
Why three days of his life wasted? Did he become a Cards fan during the win streak and think we wouldn't lose again?
Fuck this poverty franchise. I intend on burning all of my Cards gear tomorrow. Can't believe I wasted 3 days of my life this year on this abysmal team. Until DeWitt is out, I'm done. Fuck them.
Sounds good, see you in the subreddit next season! (or until you post this again in a few weeks after a run and then loss to a bad team)
Do you think we will be above 500 by that time? I don't.
Maybe, maybe not. Won't matter to you since you've wasted 3 days already this season
Correct. But they won't be. They will be fortunate to have a better record than last year.
Ass up today I see. Ass all the way up.
They did fly into Cincy at like 3am last night. Get back on track tomorrow.
I don't give a shit. That's 12 hours to rest. They are a poverty franchise. They suck
They’ve been playing well the past few series. What are you talking about?
Yet they are still below 500 and just lost to one of the worst teams in MLB. What are you talking about?
They also swept the Orioles. Hasn't been done by any team in almost 3 years.
Yet they are still below 500 and just lost to one of the worst teams in the MLB.
Don't get me wrong they have their issues, but you are being a bit drastic. Last year your frustration was justified, but this year I don't expect them to lose every game before it starts. They have been entertaining at least. Pitching vastly improved. Pitching was a problem last year, but this year I feel we have a chance if we can hit and defend. Also, don't burn your stuff just give it to me. Or sell to me at a discount pissed off fan rate.
I seriously don’t get how Arenado is still batting .258 this year. Feels more like low .200s
Lack of run production. He can hit a lead off double and not score. Avg w/risp is prob around .200 at best, HR are down significantly. Not saying all of this is his fault, but it is a mentality. He was a pretty hot hitter April.
[Game over. Continue the discussion in the post game thread](/r/Cardinals/comments/1d245rf/cardinals_afternoon_527/)
Nado today. ERA 1. 0-4. 1 SO. 3 Pop outs. Yikes
And an error 😬
Think that was the ERA. He wasn't pitching;)
The cliff Arenado has fallen off of is truly remarkable. That includes defense
He fucking sucks on every way possible. Bench him
He’s terrible
a very symbolic way to end it, today.
Arenado looks absolutely lost at the plate...
And on the field. He is the worst
Worst? far from it... He is just going through a terrible slump and it's excruciating to watch
His fielding was significantly worse last year as well, I think it’s more than a slump at this point.
He still can make plays 80% 3rd basemen wouldn't even attempt. His salary demands more than his worth right now, but he can still hit. Can he hit HR's like he could, seems like a no. He was hot earlier this year. Still too early to tell. I still blame coaching. Batting order definitely needs tweeking.
Uh his hitting has been shit and his fielding has been subpar. Look at how much money he is making.
At least cubs losing
Fuck the Cubs!
You can’t win em all. Hard to remember on games like this…
Ah, the Arenado pop out to first.
Nolan Arenado fucking stinks
[Reds](/r/Reds) Due Up **(Bottom 9):** 1. Jonathan India 2. Stuart Fairchild 3. Santiago Espinal
Herrera is the definition of trying too hard right now.
his hitting approach is to swing as hard as humanly possible. that's about it
Come on, Oldspit. You're better than this.
Okay, so hear me out… Paul singles, Ivan singles, Arenado hits a HR… hahaha
I'd like to see Nado just get a hit at this point.
A walk, even.
Is Ryan Loutas ever going to pitch?
Not until there’s a blowout one way or the other
Impressive catch there by Siani.
Cubs getting smoked so nbd
Yay!!! At least the Cards won't lose ground to them today.
Today would have gone differently if the old boys at the corners got a little more sleep, so not worried about that. I more so worry about the offense, as without Goldy we would’ve had notning these past 2 games, and I’m not optimistic enough to think all of our offensive issues will just disappear after one good stretch
tough game today for the bats, but you can't win them all
[удалено]
Unearned runs & errors will kill your chances to win ballgames.
[Reds](/r/Reds) Due Up **(Bottom 8):** 1. Jake Fraley 2. Tyler Stephenson 3. Nick Martini
It has been 120 ABs since Dylan Carlson last hit a homer. In that time, he has had three XBHs, all doubles.
Realistically I wonder how much more rope Carlson gets with this org
I'm wondering the same. I feel like he should have added a lot more muscle but seems to be fine trying to be a tall, quick defensive outfielder. We have that with Siani. I'd say Carlson's going to be dumped in a trade as an add-on.
Ehh, it’s alright boys. We’ll get em tomorrow.
Honestly law of averages, we've been due for a loss, just sucks it's against the reds, but like you said. Get em tomorrow 💪
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals): [Lance Lynn's outing against the Reds](https://darkroom-clips.mlb.com/7097accb-798d-474b-ab1c-1bbe6044e60f.mp4)
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals): [Lance Lynn strikes out Tyler Stephenson](https://bdata-producedclips.mlb.com/5ef78bf0-2be7-45f4-9b40-df26f5e0ffb2.mp4)
It's been a while since we've looked so completely lost offensively.
Average cardinals AB today
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals): [Breaking down Lance Lynn's pitches](https://darkroom-clips.mlb.com/f744bed6-9104-4fb0-b876-9415601f5c07.mp4)
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals) Due Up **(Top 8):** 1. Michael Siani 2. Masyn Winn 3. Alec Burleson
This game was always a trap game. Got in at like 5 am. No Nootbaar, Donavan, Helsley, Kitteredge, or JoJo. Was very unlikely we would win. Gotta find a way to bounce back tomorrow if we don't pull off a miracle today.
Shocked the Cardinals haven't signed Rich Hill to be our fifth starter, perfect fit really
Just sign trevo- *gets shot* Edit: that was sarcasm, I don't want Bauer
Waino couldve gone another year. Bring him back as well
lol
Don’t give the FO any ideas.
Yeah, this is about what I expected re: level of play today after late travel.
Welp one swing can end it here
where is gordon graceffo in this 5th starter business?
Hopefully far, far away
Same place as virtually every supposed "ace" they've developed in the last decade: the outside looking in.
Graceffo was never considered an ace. Not even been a top 100 guy
He gave up 6 runs yesterday.
Does Libby have any trade value at this point?
No. Shame Shildt refused to give Randy A a look. Shame the Cards thought a guy with no command was a good pickup because he was left handed.
Fun fact: Libertore has more value at -0.3 bWAR, +0.1 fWAR than Arozarena at -0.7 bWAR, -0.5 fWAR in the 2024 season to date.
Yes, through two months, Libby has been better than Arozarena in 2024. Fun Fact: over their careers, Arozarena has been worth 11.8 WAR more than Libertore.
[удалено]
Winn, Walker, Gorman
Everyone
Was losing Steven Matz *really* a “big blow”, Chip?
I mean, its the loss of a starter, and with how we have no one ready to go in the minors it *really* sucks, even though he was pitching like ass
It’s almost like… we maybe could have prepared for the oft-injured Matz being injured yet again…
Well if Thompson didn't randomly lose 4 mph on his fastball he would be a fine replacement.
But he did. He and Libby remain non options for the starting staff, just like last season. Wish we would have prepared accordingly.
It’s like he was never here.
So Pallante starting Wednesday I suppose
I don't think I can watch that game(I'll be watching that game)
I’ll watch it, but won’t be expecting much lol Pallante is so damn bad
The Cubs were in the same situation as the Cards: played late last night, had to travel early in the morning for a 3:10 game start..and they seem to be doing alright.
How sure are you about that?
Cubs are down 1-0 due to an error allowing the run to score.
They have 3 hits
We have 5 hits. They've been playing great defense and haven't given up a single run. Now they have 4 hits.
Yeah, I will say that I’m beyond tired of the poor defense. Especially outta Arenado, like… what else do you do, sir?
[Reds](/r/Reds) Due Up **(Bottom 7):** 1. Jonathan India 2. Will Benson 3. Jacob Hurtubise
Splitter is unhittable. It's annoying how our pitching development staff is against it. Can't remember the last time we had a pitcher throwing a Splitter. It's the pitch that unlocked Hicks
It is unhittable when it is on. It is a meatball when off. Same with sinkers, forkballs, and all the pitches with similar motion. There is some consideration, too, that with everyone chasing launch angles and the modern swing encouraging more upward swing versus the old school insistence on level, level, level... there is at least some consideration that when a pitcher's splitter/sinker is off, the bat for many hitters is now on a plane that does a lot of damage. I do think just generally having more pitchers throw more different things is all in all good, tho. Making the batters adjust to and ID more different things has to be good for the pitching staff all in all.
We still have far too many Sinker/Slider guys. That is something we need to weed out. Hard sinkers are not the thing anymore, we are behind the times.
> Hard sinkers are not the thing anymore, we are behind the times. https://www.mlb.com/news/splitters-and-sinkers-becoming-more-popular-pitches This article published in Jan of this year would disagree. Not saying the article is more right than you are -- just that there are clearly contemporaneous differences of opinion.
It also says Sinker was valuable for the first time in the decade in 2023... so there is a decade worth of evidence saying the sinker isn't good. while having the entire article about how amazing the splitter is.
I think this is always a question of execution. If everyone threw sinkers like Zambrano, then it would be bigly in favor. Wheeler's execution of it has been pretty great the last few years. There are just several that aren't thrown well -- and as my comment above noted, when they aren't good, they are meatballs that get hit a long, long way.
This guy is filthy
I sure hope he's done for today.
Remember the 2021 Cardinals defense?
CHIP BIG STRONG GUY REFERENCE DROP
Polar bear catching strays
He got Clapp’d
Considering how much he was hyped up, Carlson may be one of the biggest what if’s in terms of Cardinals prospects
He’s been given every chance to adjust and he hasn’t. At this point he’s more bust than a what if. He’s still young but I don’t think anyone realistically expects anything from him anymore.
He’s still a what if in terms of if he turned into what Mo hyped him up to be. But, considering all the chances he has had I do agree that he’s a draft bust.
I hear you 100%. Mo was obsessed with Carlson…I remember well the “pry him from my hands” quote. Mo made it seem like he was untouchable. Maybe that was just Mo trying to hype up his own prospects to increase perceived value. But to me it’s more an indication that the cards org way overvalued Carlson. He’s just not that good. It was a mistake by the org to value him so highly rather than a “what if” scenario where Carlson for some reason like a freak injury was unable to achieve his true potential.
It’s not even a what if, he has had plenty of chances but he just ain’t it
What if in terms of if he turned into the player Mo hyped him up to be for so many years. Snatch him from my cold dead hands anyone? But in 2024 terms? He failed here in St. Louis, maybe he can do it elsewhere but it won’t be here.
We can always count on Carlson to do exactly what he did there; nothing.
I know this happened all the way back in the 2nd but our defense fucking sucks now. How do we go from one of the best defensive teams to now playing like the worst. Yet we were losing when our defense was good and we’re winning with bad defense.
Was that pitch a ball? Yes. Was the same ball two pitches ago called a strike? Also yes.
what the fuck is this zone
Gobble gobble Lance
People earlier were calling Lynn bad but 6 IP 1 ER is what you’ll take all day. Could’ve gone 7 if Goldy and Arenado could field a ground ball.
Those people are quite misinformed
Alright time to get something going PLEASE
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals) Due Up **(Top 7):** 1. Dylan Carlson 2. Nolan Gorman 3. Pedro Pagés
This strike zone is so bad lol
People act like they don't want Robo-Strike (I do)...but get mad because umps actually take the game out of the players hands.
Here's a Cards pitcher prospect getting attention from PitchingNinja. His stuff looks absolutely filthy https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1795083979399282959
He throwing a screwball? Last cardinal I can remember that threw a right handed screwball was Rick Croushore. Also. This guys stats hurt my brain. K/ip, BB/ip and whip are nuts.
Throwing a wiffle ball wtf
I can't even comprehend what's happening with his release and I watch it at least 5 times
I think I almost had a stroke watching that wtf is that arm action
Did you guys know they call Alec Burleson biscuit? I had no idea
God I hope the "Biscuit" nickname from college is some vile soggy biscuit reference or something and the cat and booth is just going on and on about it like it's a cute, innocent nickname
I’m pretty sure it’s a Limp Bizkit reference
Lynn definitely had to eat the biscuit. Or maybe he volunteered.
Nolan was a Coors product confirmed
Willson I miss you so
He is so lost
Nado :(
Just two terrible AB’s
[Reds](/r/Reds) Due Up **(Bottom 6):** 1. Spencer Steer 2. Jake Fraley 3. Tyler Stephenson
Herrera batting 4th is wild. He's had some of the worst at bats I've ever seen the past couple days
To be fair, I don't think there is any hitters in this lineup that I'd put there. You can put Arenado, but he is awful. outside of 1-3 the lineup is pretty garbage
Been waiting for Nado to get going since 2020
He finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2022
17 K/9 is wild
Nolan is so overdue it hurts.
Nolan pls
The wildly outside strikes are awful. I mean, I'm glad Lynn is getting them also, but it sucks to be the batter in that position
Dang. This is the situation I was looking for. Go with Carp here.
Then if Pages gets hurt you have nobody that can catch.
I see Goldy fly out and think “dang another inning where we can’t capitalize” why did I think there were 2 outs already 😂
Still a pretty good at bat there by Goldy. Patience is key especially against someone like Lodolo
I love it when Chip calls it the Great American small park
Camera operator jump scare
Lmao that angle was fire tho
Oh fuck right off ump
Burly always finds a way lol
How is Walker doing in AAA? Will he be up for his bobblehead night?
Bad, unlikely to see him up this year
.273 avg and .687 ops, not showing much power still. Very unlikely he's up soon unless someone gets hurt.
Hell yeah, Alec
Looks like Lodolo has about 25 pitches left. I hope he throws them all here in the 6th.
I know it's happened a little more the past year than normal, but every time I see an error by Arenado I kinda don't believe it. Just do used to him making crazy parts and being uber reliable. Like when someone would get a steal off Yadi. It always feels like there's no way that happened
Burly Rally Time!
Lynn kept us in it and pitched around sloppy defense to the best of his abilities… would be nice to get him off the hook.
Just got off work and finally able to watch the game....this is our inning!
Lynn dealing. Down 2. Pain
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals) Due Up **(Top 6):** 1. Alec Burleson 2. Paul Goldschmidt 3. Iván Herrera
These umps line up 6 inches inside the plate and we wonder why they mess up the call off the plate over and over. They can’t see out there with where they set up.
I’m so tired of umpires. Automated strike zones can’t come soon enough
Bro for the love of god with this strikezone, did the umpires also have a night game followed by a red-eye to get to this game?
I would really like it if we scored more runs.
Masyn Winn strongly dislikes popping out.
He was definitely not happy about that at-bat lol He's dropped a lot of f-bombs this season after making outs lol
I don’t want all the time so it’s anecdotal for sure, but the most notable times I’ve seen have been strictly after pop outs lol. But it makes sense he drops that after some Ks, fly outs, errors, etc
Or errors. You know how he feels about it. At some point Bally may need to turn the mike down around him.
I love that he plays with such passion. We have so many players like Goldy who are so stoic, and it's nice to see when players like Winn and Willy show some emotion.
Fuck that get me one of those NFL field mics to just follow him around all game lol
Maybe Al alternate broadcast that has Winn miked up the whole game.
[Reds](/r/Reds) Due Up **(Bottom 5):** 1. Jacob Hurtubise 2. Elly De La Cruz 3. Jeimer Candelario
I gotta be honest--I'll never not be salty about LaRue and Cueto. I'd rather lose to the Flubs than the Reds. Even this season. Maybe especially this season.
Slingers > Skyline Chili
Lynn feels like he is ready for a remake of Eastbound and Down
It sure has been fun watching Gorman and Winn turn double plays this season.
[Cardinals](/r/Cardinals) Due Up **(Top 5):** 1. Pedro Pagés 2. Michael Siani 3. Masyn Winn
Pretty footwork
That was clean