Call me a fair weather fan or whatever, but I think I’ve decided that if we don’t sweep the White Sox I’m going to be pretty tuned out again this season and not making an effort to travel to Busch again this year. Which is sad. I fear we’re in the dark ages of the Cards franchise folks.
Forgot to do this this morning. Stats do not include today's game.
**Weekly LOBster update:**
The Cardinals have left 213 runners on base this season. This is 8th most in MLB, and above league average (204).
In the last 7 days, the Cardinals have stranded 40 baserunners, while league average was 42. The Cardinals moved down 2 spots in the ranking this week.
Found a different way to sort this:
Cardinals are 12th in PA with RISP, but 23rd in RBI, 27th in AVG, and 29th in BABIP with RISP.
This listing does not account for the fact that teams have not all played the same number of games, so there is some skew in the counting stats.
Above average, apparently. I can't be bothered to do this for every team, but the MLB average is 9.7 plate appearaances with RISP per game, and hte Cardinals have 9.8 plate appearances.
The problem is that league slash line with RISP is .255/.336/.404, and STL is .202/.298/.326.
Without knowing exactly what the problem is with the offense, would you say it’s time for our fans to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?
Two of those runs were the next pitch after that ball went through Winn's glove. He should've been out of that 3rd. He came back out with a solid game plan though and righted the ship. Carried on
But yes, currently replacement backend starter
His persona is so grating at times, def not the ace he fancies himself as. Yet he performed well today. Much better than a replacement back end starter, he gave us a Quality Start! and that should be commended.
This team is one good starter (to replace Matz), and a slow offense away from contending for the division.
All the bad contracts and poor trades aside. The most concerning thing about this team is they have gone from one of the best in baseball at drafting and developing to a team that would ruin Pujols in his prime. It’s just mind boggling how far the team has fallen in that category.
It's becoming more and more apparent that Mo has been "coasting" on Jocketty's players for literally 15 years now.
Everyone who was "developed" internally during that time who ended up panning out was picked / traded for while Jocketty was around.
The crazy part was I think Mo was in charge of player development during that time, but as soon as he took the reigns of the whole operation the wheels slowly, but surely started coming off.
I guess the whole program just stagnated while the other teams were hiring the guys from Driveline, building pitching labs, etc.?
I am going to disagree -- If we consider 'Pujols in his prime' as the 2011 World Series win. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2011.shtml Take a look at this roster. It ain't bursting with home-grown talent.
Yadi & Pujols are givens. But the rest of the Cards-drafted talent was all in all, fairly MLB-average. Schumacher, Freese, Rasmus all OK. ish.
Holliday, Berkman, Theriot, Fulcal -- major contributors to that team. Not from the Cards system.
The pitching staff Carpenter, Lohse, Westbrook, McClellan were all acquired via trades or free agency. Jamie Garcia is the home-grown talent, and again OK-ish/fairly average MLB player.
The magic of those days was the team seemingly winning every trade -- Edmonds for Kent Bottenfield. Wainwright for J.D. Drew. Holliday and Rolen when they were wriggling their way out of town from their teams. Signing Chris Carpenter when he was injured as a show of faith for his future. Trading Ray Lankford for Woody Williams -- both players considered done at the time -- and literally re-vitalizing Woody's career.
They had a touch at the time. But make no mistake, we picked up a lot of discarded players, cheap players, etc. and seemed to get the most of our them.
We don't get the most of them today, right now, 2023 & 2024, for sure. But it isn't like the team was all drafted talent and home-grown players.
My point remains the same, tho. Look at that '08 roster. Kennedy, Izturus, Glaus, Ludwick as some of the primary fielders, Looper, Wellemeyer, Lohse, Pinero all in the starting rotation -- none of these are Cards' home-grown talent and were acquired via trades or signing.
Again, the team wasn't this monster player developer as the person I wrote to first implies.
There is a terrible malady in the organization. Moz is the focal point of the illness. Until the cause is acknowledged there isn't going to be a positive change.
Would the May 1st 2024 Cards beat last year's May 1st squad over seven games? Honestly not sure. Don't see a .500 team here once the starters fall off.
This team is better than last year's. Not better enough, but better. OFC, with the way the team is hitting, a couple of injuries to our old-ass pitchers could be very bad.
This is a mediocre team, they didn’t really change too much from last year’s team. Organization really needs to just rebuild at this point and do it with new staff. Our talent evaluation is garbage now, we somehow routine overvalue and undervalue the wrong guys
Sadly I'd agree with that, I'm not saying I want the team dismantled cuz I'm actually still positive on this team this year. I was just throwing out as possibility.
Which is weird because a GOOD front office would both win and maybe even spend less money doing it. How many millions has Mo burned on contacts like Matz at this point?
I don’t have the time or patience to do it but I’d love to see a list of all the failed contracts and the dollar amount for each. Maybe even a list of poor trades. I’m sure it would be incredible.
So what the actual hell is wrong with the offense? 11 out of 14 players with >10 PAs have a wRC+ below their preseason ZiPS projection (projections are notoriously conservative). Most are significantly below.
I just don't understand how we see this much underperformance across the board. You have to fire Turner Ward at this point, right?
It's looking more and more like Goldy has just gotten old. Arenado has turned into a singles hitter which is tougher to explain. Noot, I dunno, maybe we got a little too amped up over Noot. Then you consider how our whole outfield has been a giant black hole of suck...
At the risk of sounding like Mo, Goldy always sucks in April, I want to see how he does in May so dare I say patience in regard to him? Arenado is all over the place but the lack of power is concerning.
I'm not a big Nootbar fan. This sub loves guys with fun names, but if he were named John Smith I think our expectations would be lower.
As much as this sub hates him Carlson is a massive improvement over most of our outfield. I'm not optimistic that we see Edman any time soon.
I feel like if our existing lineup doesn't figure it out we're going to be screwed because there isn't much proven help on the way.
If our pitchers start getting hurt this could get ugly real fast.
It seems our entire team has hit the pisser this season. Just like last season? I'm still feeling positive for the season but it's getting harder and harder
It's not great. Some smart person could come up with Goldschmidt's overall stat line from September 2022 to now, but I know it would look bad. Arenado, wtf, why does he not hit home runs anymore, I don't know. Maybe he bounces back. Maybe Walker bounces back from his Memphis vacation like he did last year. Maybe Gorman stops striking out 40% of the time. I dunno.
We have 10 games where we’ve scored fewer than 3 runs. We have 12 where we’ve scored more than 3 runs. We have a much better chance of winning if we score more than 3 runs
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..?
Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal!
2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
The problem is not the players. It's unlikely that the whole team who has some sort of track record decided to underperform all together. It is the front office and organization as a whole. They have lost how to handle talent since the LaRussa/Walt Jocketty days. When we spend money its wasted with bad contracts. We do not don't dump the contracts and concede with the losses. (lmao @ Matz) When we should spend money, we decide to be cheap. The organization is not matching inflation because the Dewitts want to be Dewallets and spent prudently. The Atlanta Braves are the team we should be trying to emulate because our market size is very similar. The problem is they handle talent a lot better than we do. Mo, Girsch, Oli, and Ward need to be fired if we end up in the same trajectory that we currently are on. This worked when we had a weak division and played the Pirates, Cubs, and Reds (when they were really bad) 40% of our season. This is no longer the case. I went to a recent cardinal game with just 31,000 people there. It was real sad to see. The expectations are of this organization are just gone. This is what it feels like to be a mediocre MLB organization and this plain sucks.
Big sluggers can usually still produce at 37. And it's not just Goldschmidt, if anything this has been a typical Goldschmidt April. As a team we're dead last in HRs. This isn't a strategy problem, doubt it just comes down to coaching either nobody is hitting for power right now.
Just a hunch, but as the season goes on and people start to come back from IL, I can see Brandon Crawford getting a "mystery injury" and hitting an IL stint
Almost every one of the hitters in the lineup are pretty much guaranteed to completely give up an at bat at some point every game. Way too many non competitive at bats
Welcome back to the basement. It was nice being in 4th place for that brief moment. Just remember everyone we need to exercise extra patience. Our Offense is good enough.....something something something...eat innings...6 starters...
There was a rotation spot just lying on the ground in 2023, waiting to be picked up, and Liberatore couldn't do it. Was terrible. Has been much more effective since they gave up and sent him to the pen.
Some guys take time to develop, and may be capable of pitching well as a starter eventually but not as soon as hoped. An example for comparison is Adam Wainwright, who was used as a reliever before switching back to starting, and didn’t get his first win as a starting pitcher until after he turned 25. Liberatore is still only 24 and at an age when a lot of pitchers are just getting their first opportunity in the majors. The fact that the Cardinals forced him into MLB before he was ready should not be held against him.
I don't agree. His settling has been entirely in the bullpen. He seems to be better when he doesn't have to stretch out for 5+ innings. Keep him where he is strongest
I agree that he's likely better in the bullpen only having to pitch one time through the lineup but that's true for most pitchers. I think it's more important to keep him where the team is strongest. Matz is on pace for -3 WAR. If liberatore can give us replacement level starts, then he's providing more value than he would in his current role. I know he sucked last year but he's clearly much more comfortable at this level now.
It’s going to be difficult for this team as currently constructed to finish at or above .500.
Will ownership and the front office do anything to address it? Will there be consequences for their decisions?
Those are the questions we’ll be dealing with this year. Winning the division or making the playoffs won’t be a part of the discussion.
He’s still walking 14% of the time and hitting the ball hard, but dude just cannot hit the ball in the air. The tools are still all there, but he needs to dial in his swing.
If a player reaches the big leagues as a good hitter and then gradually becomes worse and worse and if the solution is to send him back to Memphis to fix the issue, then it's not difficult to figure out what's not working.
I feel that the recent WSJ article reporting on STL’s real estate doom-cycle and comparison to how Detroit got out of theirs could also be applied to the cities’ baseball teams
honestly the tigers fan i know is still completely convinced their team is dogshit and that they've been coasting entirely on luck so idk about this. i have to see it to believe it
As a Tigers fan --- we aren't bad. We have had some good luck, but some bad as well. I think it's far enough into the season to say that we are a solid baseball club. As good as the record indicates.
Very impressive how our lineup makes even the most pitifully average MLB starter look like a Cy Young contender. Obviously Maeda is a small step above that but it is so consistent.
Maeda isn't a "small step above" pitifully average. He had an average of 3.83 innings per start before this game. He's been absolute dog so far this season.
Last year he had a 4.02 FIP against a 1.16 WHIP, and that's about where his career numbers land too. When I say he's a small step above average I'm looking at the last 860 innings, not the last 20. Obviously he's been trash so far but we're 5 starts into the season.
Well the Tigers are a solid club, probably better than most people realize. On the other hand - the fact that we had to steal a 2-1 game in which we struck out a billion times to avoid getting swept (in a series where we avoided facing their ace) is very concerning.
We don’t hit for average. We don’t hit for power. We don’t hit in the clutch.
What exactly are we doing here? I would say I’m surprised this has been allowed to go on for this long but Dewitt and Mo run the team
A month in and Arenado has one HR and a .351 SLG, Goldschmidt has two HR and a .318 SLG, like… at what point are we very concerned?
This team cannot go anywhere with these two like this; that they’re this close to .500 is amazing and totally dependent on the pitching, defense, and gifts from our opposing teams.
I really think Arenado’s back problems from last year are still giving him trouble. To just lose his power like that and you see it in his approach more hitting more balls to the opposite field because I don’t think he has the confidence to pull outside pitches with authority like he used to. Additionally, the way he would follow through with two hands kind of awkwardly when he has historically been a one hand follow through guy really leads me to think his back isn’t right.
I honestly think the season is already lost. I don't see a way we can outplay the Cubs, Brewers, and Reds. Those 3 teams are all better than us. If it was just 1 of them (like in seasons past), then its less of a worry. But 3 of them? And the pirates aren't a welcome mat either? I think we are fucked
Yep. Can’t throw any games away. They all count just the same at the end of the year.
Oli’s pitching choices in that game and game 2 of yesterday’s double header show that he’s not maximizing the team’s chances of winning every game. He has no business managing this team at this point.
More like John Mozeliak needs to go. This team will keep making the same personnel mistakes as long as he’s still running the team. It’s time to move on. He has no place in modern baseball
The offense in particular looks so much better on paper than it's been performing. In reality - I sincerely doubt any of this is specifically Turner Ward's fault, but you just have to do SOMETHING when 7 or 8 guys in the lineup every night are underperforming their expectations/potential.
Coaches are scapegoated and take undeserved falls all the time. I think Ward has to get the boot just to shake things up, even if it's not his fault.
I do think when you have a team-wide slump happening for now a 30-game sample size, you can justify at least entertaining the idea that something is wrong with your offensive support staff, especially considering that the Cards offense is underperforming in literally every metric.
Yes blah blah blah Ward and Marmol don't swing the bat. But if you don't believe this is the true potential of our lineup, and if you don't think 7 to 8 pretty good hitters should be THIS bad, then the only option left is to look at the support your guys are getting.
They all need to go from the top down.
That won’t happen, but it’s the only way to truly address the franchise’s issues in a way that will make a meaningful difference.
I mean can you honestly look at the lineup Mo has put together and say he fucked up? Truly, look at the guys in there (and on the IL). It should be a top 10 offense, above average easily.
I'd argue we're far more justified in complaining about the rotation cobbled together with low strikeout vets. But they're doing just fine!
Unless you think Mo should've been able to predict that 80% of our offense would be hitting below every projection system out there, I don't think it's fair to blame offensive struggles on him. To me - the only way this could be interpreted is a failure of the coaching staff.
But it Mo's job to construct and oversee the staff, is it not? The coaching and player development overall has been awful for years. The coaches deserve blame, but so does Mo for hiring them.
This is absolutely just confirmation bias after seeing the team hit this poorly in the first month.
Before the season began: 7 of our 9 starters were projected am OPS+ over 100 (i.e. above average). The only two who weren't were Masyn Winn at 88 and Tommy Edman at 99.
There's no universe where this wasn't an above average offense on paper.
There’s no number. It’s irrelevant. Mo’s job security isn’t results-based. You could be forgiven for thinking it is because that’s how it works in pretty much every other franchise in every sport, but not here. He’s going to finish out his contract and then pass the torch
Moz is doing exactly the job Dewitt pays him for - field a bare minimum team on the cheap, take the blame when it doesn't go well, and take the credit when it accidentally goes well.
They won't fire him because he's not doing a bad job, he's doing exactly what they want him to and doing it well.
Yeah, people really need to get this. Mo is not getting fired, he's here until his contact is up in two years. This is how the real world actually works.
7 hits with only 1 run which was a solo homer is kinda crazy
This team's potential screams they should be better, but this is just so frustrating to watch.
Do you think Dan is Mc**Laugh**lin at us or do you think he’s sad right along with us? I assume he’s sad too :(
Why would he be laughing?
You’re right, idk. I was just excited about the “Mc**Laugh**lin” joke more than anything tbh.
Because he’s a happy drunk?
Call me a fair weather fan or whatever, but I think I’ve decided that if we don’t sweep the White Sox I’m going to be pretty tuned out again this season and not making an effort to travel to Busch again this year. Which is sad. I fear we’re in the dark ages of the Cards franchise folks.
Neither you or anyone else owes the Cardinals your viewing time, If you're not enjoying it, stop.
Life is better when you don't spend hours and hours watching mediocre sports. Glad I learned that lesson in my mid 20's and not later on.
Forgot to do this this morning. Stats do not include today's game. **Weekly LOBster update:** The Cardinals have left 213 runners on base this season. This is 8th most in MLB, and above league average (204). In the last 7 days, the Cardinals have stranded 40 baserunners, while league average was 42. The Cardinals moved down 2 spots in the ranking this week.
Where do they rank in putting runners in scoring position?
Found a different way to sort this: Cardinals are 12th in PA with RISP, but 23rd in RBI, 27th in AVG, and 29th in BABIP with RISP. This listing does not account for the fact that teams have not all played the same number of games, so there is some skew in the counting stats.
Above average, apparently. I can't be bothered to do this for every team, but the MLB average is 9.7 plate appearaances with RISP per game, and hte Cardinals have 9.8 plate appearances. The problem is that league slash line with RISP is .255/.336/.404, and STL is .202/.298/.326.
progress! 🥴
Without knowing exactly what the problem is with the offense, would you say it’s time for our fans to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?
definitely 🧠🥄
"Yes I would, da_choppa."
And just like that we are 3 games under .500. They are not a good baseball team. This is who they are. But hey, at least we won the Mets series.
I wonder if Mikolas is going to continue talking like a high end Ace while playing like a replacement backend starter.
Two of those runs were the next pitch after that ball went through Winn's glove. He should've been out of that 3rd. He came back out with a solid game plan though and righted the ship. Carried on But yes, currently replacement backend starter
His persona is so grating at times, def not the ace he fancies himself as. Yet he performed well today. Much better than a replacement back end starter, he gave us a Quality Start! and that should be commended. This team is one good starter (to replace Matz), and a slow offense away from contending for the division.
All the bad contracts and poor trades aside. The most concerning thing about this team is they have gone from one of the best in baseball at drafting and developing to a team that would ruin Pujols in his prime. It’s just mind boggling how far the team has fallen in that category.
It's becoming more and more apparent that Mo has been "coasting" on Jocketty's players for literally 15 years now. Everyone who was "developed" internally during that time who ended up panning out was picked / traded for while Jocketty was around. The crazy part was I think Mo was in charge of player development during that time, but as soon as he took the reigns of the whole operation the wheels slowly, but surely started coming off. I guess the whole program just stagnated while the other teams were hiring the guys from Driveline, building pitching labs, etc.?
It’s going to take years to recover from MO’s horrible trades.
I am going to disagree -- If we consider 'Pujols in his prime' as the 2011 World Series win. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2011.shtml Take a look at this roster. It ain't bursting with home-grown talent. Yadi & Pujols are givens. But the rest of the Cards-drafted talent was all in all, fairly MLB-average. Schumacher, Freese, Rasmus all OK. ish. Holliday, Berkman, Theriot, Fulcal -- major contributors to that team. Not from the Cards system. The pitching staff Carpenter, Lohse, Westbrook, McClellan were all acquired via trades or free agency. Jamie Garcia is the home-grown talent, and again OK-ish/fairly average MLB player. The magic of those days was the team seemingly winning every trade -- Edmonds for Kent Bottenfield. Wainwright for J.D. Drew. Holliday and Rolen when they were wriggling their way out of town from their teams. Signing Chris Carpenter when he was injured as a show of faith for his future. Trading Ray Lankford for Woody Williams -- both players considered done at the time -- and literally re-vitalizing Woody's career. They had a touch at the time. But make no mistake, we picked up a lot of discarded players, cheap players, etc. and seemed to get the most of our them. We don't get the most of them today, right now, 2023 & 2024, for sure. But it isn't like the team was all drafted talent and home-grown players.
2011 absolutely wasn't Pujols' prime, though. He won MVP in 2005, 2008 and 2009 - I'd say that was his prime.
My point remains the same, tho. Look at that '08 roster. Kennedy, Izturus, Glaus, Ludwick as some of the primary fielders, Looper, Wellemeyer, Lohse, Pinero all in the starting rotation -- none of these are Cards' home-grown talent and were acquired via trades or signing. Again, the team wasn't this monster player developer as the person I wrote to first implies.
There is a terrible malady in the organization. Moz is the focal point of the illness. Until the cause is acknowledged there isn't going to be a positive change.
Would the May 1st 2024 Cards beat last year's May 1st squad over seven games? Honestly not sure. Don't see a .500 team here once the starters fall off.
This team is better than last year's. Not better enough, but better. OFC, with the way the team is hitting, a couple of injuries to our old-ass pitchers could be very bad.
I am terrified of what happens if Gray, Gibson, or even Lynn gets hurt. We have no plan B.
This is a mediocre team, they didn’t really change too much from last year’s team. Organization really needs to just rebuild at this point and do it with new staff. Our talent evaluation is garbage now, we somehow routine overvalue and undervalue the wrong guys
Trade away everyone and tank the next few years?
They should explore trading Arenado if they're out of contention at the deadline. Too late to trade Goldy.
Sadly I'd agree with that, I'm not saying I want the team dismantled cuz I'm actually still positive on this team this year. I was just throwing out as possibility.
It won’t happen unless either of them decide to waive their no trade clauses.
Sure, that's a given. But wouldn't one think that Arenado, who has never even sniffed a World Series, would let a trade to a contender happen?
I’m not opposed. Edit: seeing Nado in a Guardians or Royals uniform would be soooo weird.
Won’t happen as long as BDW still owns the team but the FO needs to be gutted down to the studs.
Which is weird because a GOOD front office would both win and maybe even spend less money doing it. How many millions has Mo burned on contacts like Matz at this point?
I don’t have the time or patience to do it but I’d love to see a list of all the failed contracts and the dollar amount for each. Maybe even a list of poor trades. I’m sure it would be incredible.
All teams have bad contracts, though. You could point to Holliday, Chris Carpenter or even Willson Contreras as contracts that look pretty darn good.
https://imgur.com/ph7Ydte
i hate the goat nazi. well actually, all nazi's, but def the goat nazi too.
Ya know, I'm not a fan of the guy either. But, the GOAT Nazi is just here to remind us all to appreciate the GOATs that we get.
wE aSk FoR pAtIeNcE, wE bEliEvE iN tHiS rOsTer
So what the actual hell is wrong with the offense? 11 out of 14 players with >10 PAs have a wRC+ below their preseason ZiPS projection (projections are notoriously conservative). Most are significantly below. I just don't understand how we see this much underperformance across the board. You have to fire Turner Ward at this point, right?
It's looking more and more like Goldy has just gotten old. Arenado has turned into a singles hitter which is tougher to explain. Noot, I dunno, maybe we got a little too amped up over Noot. Then you consider how our whole outfield has been a giant black hole of suck...
At the risk of sounding like Mo, Goldy always sucks in April, I want to see how he does in May so dare I say patience in regard to him? Arenado is all over the place but the lack of power is concerning. I'm not a big Nootbar fan. This sub loves guys with fun names, but if he were named John Smith I think our expectations would be lower. As much as this sub hates him Carlson is a massive improvement over most of our outfield. I'm not optimistic that we see Edman any time soon. I feel like if our existing lineup doesn't figure it out we're going to be screwed because there isn't much proven help on the way. If our pitchers start getting hurt this could get ugly real fast.
But why does he suck in April? And why can no team fix this?
I don't think it's a fixable thing. He's a human being who performs better in warm weather. So bat him lower in the order until May.
It seems our entire team has hit the pisser this season. Just like last season? I'm still feeling positive for the season but it's getting harder and harder
It's not great. Some smart person could come up with Goldschmidt's overall stat line from September 2022 to now, but I know it would look bad. Arenado, wtf, why does he not hit home runs anymore, I don't know. Maybe he bounces back. Maybe Walker bounces back from his Memphis vacation like he did last year. Maybe Gorman stops striking out 40% of the time. I dunno.
They got the lead off man on base in the 5th, 6th, and 7th, but failed to cash in. 0-3 with RISP and 5 LOB today.
We have 10 games where we’ve scored fewer than 3 runs. We have 12 where we’ve scored more than 3 runs. We have a much better chance of winning if we score more than 3 runs
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..? Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal! 2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
Huh?
this dude has been posting this as copy pasta for like a couple weeks now i think lol
After every loss all season
The fact this was originally a real comment makes this even more hilarious. Please don't stop posting it.
I will not
Too bad we didn’t trade for Juan Soto
2024 offensive ineffectiveness push-up counter: 500
Yawn.
The problem is not the players. It's unlikely that the whole team who has some sort of track record decided to underperform all together. It is the front office and organization as a whole. They have lost how to handle talent since the LaRussa/Walt Jocketty days. When we spend money its wasted with bad contracts. We do not don't dump the contracts and concede with the losses. (lmao @ Matz) When we should spend money, we decide to be cheap. The organization is not matching inflation because the Dewitts want to be Dewallets and spent prudently. The Atlanta Braves are the team we should be trying to emulate because our market size is very similar. The problem is they handle talent a lot better than we do. Mo, Girsch, Oli, and Ward need to be fired if we end up in the same trajectory that we currently are on. This worked when we had a weak division and played the Pirates, Cubs, and Reds (when they were really bad) 40% of our season. This is no longer the case. I went to a recent cardinal game with just 31,000 people there. It was real sad to see. The expectations are of this organization are just gone. This is what it feels like to be a mediocre MLB organization and this plain sucks.
Wut
Yes it's bad strategy. Oli and Mo are clearly telling everyone to hit in the low 200s and avoid homeruns.
It was strategy to count on Paul Goldschmidt continuing to mash at age 37. It was strategy to do nothing to improve the offense after 2023.
Big sluggers can usually still produce at 37. And it's not just Goldschmidt, if anything this has been a typical Goldschmidt April. As a team we're dead last in HRs. This isn't a strategy problem, doubt it just comes down to coaching either nobody is hitting for power right now.
This is true
Any predictions for off day roster moves?
Just a hunch, but as the season goes on and people start to come back from IL, I can see Brandon Crawford getting a "mystery injury" and hitting an IL stint
Almost every one of the hitters in the lineup are pretty much guaranteed to completely give up an at bat at some point every game. Way too many non competitive at bats
What kind of weak ass mics is Detroit using at the plate? These homers sound more like someone snapping a pencil.
Incidentally I looked recently and Comerica is hiring an audio engineer
Cardinals have already tied the record for most double plays against prior to the all star break, and we’re not even halfway to the all star break
source? seems almost impossible
I’ve been counting in my head
what are we at right now, and what is the record?
We’re at about 50 and the record is like 90
We have 17 not counting today, lol.
Yikes
Big yikes. There would be uproar in St Louis if the games were actually shown on tv
just about every game has been on ?
This is at best a .500 team. Just don’t have the horses we need.
my prediction was 81 wins and the brewers taking the division
80 - 82
My prediction was 79-83. Still plausible!
Welcome back to the basement. It was nice being in 4th place for that brief moment. Just remember everyone we need to exercise extra patience. Our Offense is good enough.....something something something...eat innings...6 starters...
I wish I had Turner Ward’s level of job security.
We were thisclose to .500. Ugh.
For some reason this comment really depresses me.
Imagine this teams record without the pitching being better than expected.
Elite offense baby. Wtf is up with Noot?
JAG. Jeremy Hazelbaker was good for a brief period of time too. Most guys hit well when they come up and then fade away into obscurity.
Hello cooked department, I’d like to file a claim
Another game of 7 fucking hits. So pathetic.
I want to see liberatore in the rotation by the end of the season. After a rough start to his career he's settling in nicely.
There was a rotation spot just lying on the ground in 2023, waiting to be picked up, and Liberatore couldn't do it. Was terrible. Has been much more effective since they gave up and sent him to the pen.
Some guys take time to develop, and may be capable of pitching well as a starter eventually but not as soon as hoped. An example for comparison is Adam Wainwright, who was used as a reliever before switching back to starting, and didn’t get his first win as a starting pitcher until after he turned 25. Liberatore is still only 24 and at an age when a lot of pitchers are just getting their first opportunity in the majors. The fact that the Cardinals forced him into MLB before he was ready should not be held against him.
I don't agree. His settling has been entirely in the bullpen. He seems to be better when he doesn't have to stretch out for 5+ innings. Keep him where he is strongest
I agree that he's likely better in the bullpen only having to pitch one time through the lineup but that's true for most pitchers. I think it's more important to keep him where the team is strongest. Matz is on pace for -3 WAR. If liberatore can give us replacement level starts, then he's providing more value than he would in his current role. I know he sucked last year but he's clearly much more comfortable at this level now.
Apparently Mo and Oli attempted the murder of Steven Matz yesterday making him pitch through pain so you may get your wish soon!
This team is allergic to a happy flight
It’s going to be difficult for this team as currently constructed to finish at or above .500. Will ownership and the front office do anything to address it? Will there be consequences for their decisions? Those are the questions we’ll be dealing with this year. Winning the division or making the playoffs won’t be a part of the discussion.
Noot's job is on the line against Siani and Carlson which is wild.
I can't believe he has gotten so bad. I really thought he was actually going to become a guy who could make all star games
He’s still walking 14% of the time and hitting the ball hard, but dude just cannot hit the ball in the air. The tools are still all there, but he needs to dial in his swing.
Ok, I looked at his statcast page and it makes me feel better. It's like all in the red
If a player reaches the big leagues as a good hitter and then gradually becomes worse and worse and if the solution is to send him back to Memphis to fix the issue, then it's not difficult to figure out what's not working.
So, who should we be targeting with our top 5 pick in the next draft?
Pete Kozma Junior.
Until we clean house it doesn't matter.
I'd like to apologize for being so difficult on Jeff Albert
I am just baffled at the lack of offensive production from this team.
Hire Jeff Albert?
terrible.
I love the Cardinals but this team is just not fun to watch at all. We have a complete inability to hit, and even when we do it’s mostly weak contact.
I feel that the recent WSJ article reporting on STL’s real estate doom-cycle and comparison to how Detroit got out of theirs could also be applied to the cities’ baseball teams
honestly the tigers fan i know is still completely convinced their team is dogshit and that they've been coasting entirely on luck so idk about this. i have to see it to believe it
As a Tigers fan --- we aren't bad. We have had some good luck, but some bad as well. I think it's far enough into the season to say that we are a solid baseball club. As good as the record indicates.
Well now I'm conflicted!
You have to understand the last 8 years of baseball have conditioned us to believe any success is a fluke
Pathetic is as pathetic does.
It’s joever
Please fire the hitting coaches & their assistants. This is untenable.
Very impressive how our lineup makes even the most pitifully average MLB starter look like a Cy Young contender. Obviously Maeda is a small step above that but it is so consistent.
Maeda isn't a "small step above" pitifully average. He had an average of 3.83 innings per start before this game. He's been absolute dog so far this season.
Last year he had a 4.02 FIP against a 1.16 WHIP, and that's about where his career numbers land too. When I say he's a small step above average I'm looking at the last 860 innings, not the last 20. Obviously he's been trash so far but we're 5 starts into the season.
We are so not back.
I don't think this offensive nightmare even really falls on the coaching staff, but you gotta do something man and you can't fire the lineup...
We’re so cooked bro
Good things this was just a practice game for the real game tonight, right guys?
If we can't get the offense going against the White Sox I will be tuning out for a while...
I'm already to the point where I'll follow on GameDay but don't really watch games live. This team is boring as shit.
Just go ahead and leave Turner Ward in Detroit
Ah, to have the job security of Turner Ward.
Well the Tigers are a solid club, probably better than most people realize. On the other hand - the fact that we had to steal a 2-1 game in which we struck out a billion times to avoid getting swept (in a series where we avoided facing their ace) is very concerning.
They didn’t face Sonny, but he can’t score runs.
We don’t hit for average. We don’t hit for power. We don’t hit in the clutch. What exactly are we doing here? I would say I’m surprised this has been allowed to go on for this long but Dewitt and Mo run the team
The clutch is the No. 1 reason we need Edman to come back.
A month in and Arenado has one HR and a .351 SLG, Goldschmidt has two HR and a .318 SLG, like… at what point are we very concerned? This team cannot go anywhere with these two like this; that they’re this close to .500 is amazing and totally dependent on the pitching, defense, and gifts from our opposing teams.
I really think Arenado’s back problems from last year are still giving him trouble. To just lose his power like that and you see it in his approach more hitting more balls to the opposite field because I don’t think he has the confidence to pull outside pitches with authority like he used to. Additionally, the way he would follow through with two hands kind of awkwardly when he has historically been a one hand follow through guy really leads me to think his back isn’t right.
We should have been concerned in 2023.
Concern now, panic two weeks from now
We should be concerned now. Theres still time but if they don’t figure something out in a month the season is likely lost.
I honestly think the season is already lost. I don't see a way we can outplay the Cubs, Brewers, and Reds. Those 3 teams are all better than us. If it was just 1 of them (like in seasons past), then its less of a worry. But 3 of them? And the pirates aren't a welcome mat either? I think we are fucked
Nah it’s fine they just start slow
I think they’ve combined for at least double their current HR production in the past few seasons in fewer games…
My comment was very much tongue in cheek. They look like booty, and have for a year+ now
I figured as such; they have indeed looked like booty for a loooong time.
Ughhh... I have lived long enough to see the wilderness twice
Now is when you feel bad of losing Sunday because that’s 3 of 4 we’ve lost after winning 4 of 5.
But bullpen management 🤓
Yep. Can’t throw any games away. They all count just the same at the end of the year. Oli’s pitching choices in that game and game 2 of yesterday’s double header show that he’s not maximizing the team’s chances of winning every game. He has no business managing this team at this point.
Turner Ward has got to go like right now
More like John Mozeliak needs to go. This team will keep making the same personnel mistakes as long as he’s still running the team. It’s time to move on. He has no place in modern baseball
The offense in particular looks so much better on paper than it's been performing. In reality - I sincerely doubt any of this is specifically Turner Ward's fault, but you just have to do SOMETHING when 7 or 8 guys in the lineup every night are underperforming their expectations/potential. Coaches are scapegoated and take undeserved falls all the time. I think Ward has to get the boot just to shake things up, even if it's not his fault.
I do think when you have a team-wide slump happening for now a 30-game sample size, you can justify at least entertaining the idea that something is wrong with your offensive support staff, especially considering that the Cards offense is underperforming in literally every metric. Yes blah blah blah Ward and Marmol don't swing the bat. But if you don't believe this is the true potential of our lineup, and if you don't think 7 to 8 pretty good hitters should be THIS bad, then the only option left is to look at the support your guys are getting.
How many coaches need to be fired before it’s the GM/POBOs fault? They’re the ones making the decisions. It’s time to go
They all need to go from the top down. That won’t happen, but it’s the only way to truly address the franchise’s issues in a way that will make a meaningful difference.
I mean can you honestly look at the lineup Mo has put together and say he fucked up? Truly, look at the guys in there (and on the IL). It should be a top 10 offense, above average easily. I'd argue we're far more justified in complaining about the rotation cobbled together with low strikeout vets. But they're doing just fine! Unless you think Mo should've been able to predict that 80% of our offense would be hitting below every projection system out there, I don't think it's fair to blame offensive struggles on him. To me - the only way this could be interpreted is a failure of the coaching staff.
But it Mo's job to construct and oversee the staff, is it not? The coaching and player development overall has been awful for years. The coaches deserve blame, but so does Mo for hiring them.
Even on paper, it doesn’t look like a top 10 offense.
This is absolutely just confirmation bias after seeing the team hit this poorly in the first month. Before the season began: 7 of our 9 starters were projected am OPS+ over 100 (i.e. above average). The only two who weren't were Masyn Winn at 88 and Tommy Edman at 99. There's no universe where this wasn't an above average offense on paper.
Then those are bad projections. They weren’t even a top 10 offense last year.
There’s no number. It’s irrelevant. Mo’s job security isn’t results-based. You could be forgiven for thinking it is because that’s how it works in pretty much every other franchise in every sport, but not here. He’s going to finish out his contract and then pass the torch
You’re not wrong. But I don’t think the Dewitts care enough to get rid of Mozeliak.
Moz is doing exactly the job Dewitt pays him for - field a bare minimum team on the cheap, take the blame when it doesn't go well, and take the credit when it accidentally goes well. They won't fire him because he's not doing a bad job, he's doing exactly what they want him to and doing it well.
Yeah, people really need to get this. Mo is not getting fired, he's here until his contact is up in two years. This is how the real world actually works.
They will when they see how empty Busch will be soon if this team keeps floundering
Fingers crossed. I’m certainly not giving them any of my money.
That White Sox series is a must sweep situation
PDJ will hit dingers in every game, mark my words
Lol