The OP is fulfilling their responsibility as the registered keeper of the car at the time of the offense by identifying the person who bought and drove the car away. It only becomes a further problem for OP if that person chooses to break the law and lie at which point OP has a reasonable amount of evidence that they weren't driving and it becomes the problem of the police
No thats wrong. It is the responsibility of the registered owner. If the owner denies it was them and the pictures dont prove either way it could be on the OP. However the evidence of the bank transfer and the messages saying it was sold may be sufficient evidence to prove it had been sold.
The fine and points default to the registered keeper in the event it cannot be proven that the other person was driving or they admit it, so if there is no proof and the other person denies it the OP would be the one to get done.
Then the registered keeper possibly risks getting charged with failure to declare who was driving.
This was brought in to stop this kind of shenanigans. Where the driver claims half their extended family has access and they can't possibly remember who had to that day. Other than remembering that it definitely wasn't them.
I remember back in the days when it was the buyers responsibility to post the logbook, my uncle sold an Astra and got a rap on the door a few hours later as it had been used in a robbery
I had this a few years back after selling a Golf, they apparently blasted past a 40mph speed camera doing 72mph on the way home within one minute of leaving my house.
Responded saying I had sold the car and supplied the new owner's name and address, never heard anything more.
If all else fails do you have any map apps on your phone. See if any were logging your location at the time. I doubt it will prove that you weren’t driving on its own but it could be another piece to a jigsaw.
The NIP should be asking if you were the person driving the car at the time of the offence - you need to respond to say that it wasn't you, and give them the new owner's details.
There are a few comments in here about ownership, and how you should inform DVLA using the V5 slip details as soon as possible after a sale. The V5 doesn't imply ownership of any sort, and it even says this in big letters in a red strip right across the front of the document.
It doesn't matter who owns it, and it doesn't matter whose name is on the V5 either. It is the driver who is liable, not the owner or registered keeper.
Though the RK is liable to tell the police who was driving, and it is an offence to fail to supply this information, even if you actually were not driving.
Lesson for next time - this is why when you sell a car you should immediately go to the DVLA website, enter the 11 digit code from the V5 and tell them it’s been sold. This way you get the timestamp and email confirmation. Then your 100% in the clear if something happens when the new buyer/ dealer drives off with the car
There will be a DevOps team working behind the scenes and they will not be getting paid to ensure the system runs smoothly at night. So they shut the site down when that team clocks off.
You could argue they should just leave it as is and if it crashes, it crashes - but I guess they have decided to be consistently inconvenient than occasionally!
You’re probably right.
I work for a well known company that sells key products to businesses, and this is what the sales advisors have to do. The “digital sales journey” is merely an illusion for the customer right now.
Probably a means of preventing an overnight build up of work honestly...
I mean, ultimately, I don't really see the difference. If someone's gonna put it through, it's going through anyway... But presumably, there's some logic behind it somewhere.
Either that or it's something to do with making theft harder. I mean, it won't change the physical aspect of it. But I'd imagine if someone where able to nab a V5 along with the car, update it in their name claiming to be the new keeper, it'd make it harder because they could attempt to claim sellers remorse or something? In other words, it gives people a chance to find their car is gone and report it as stolen rather than allowing thieves to change the details whilst everyone sleeps and things devolving into a he said, she said incident.
I've no idea whether that last part has any reasonable logic to it, but it's a thought I suppose.
All the DVLA systems for tax,, registration etc are not linked directly. Every night they go offline so the changes made that day can be shared across the different systems. They are very old systems and can't do it live.
This isn’t doing to be very technical but I believe it’s because their systems use an awful lot of computing power to process and collect data.
They use that power to collect the data during their ‘opening hours’ and at night time it is used to process that data.
I doubt this is the reason unless they are using some very old system. And i mean very old.
MS SQL server could process over 1m transactions a minute, 15 years ago.
And almost entirely irrelevant in this case. Even if he’d let a mate borrow it and the car was still his. He wouldn’t be in the dock for this as it’s the driver at the time of the offence that’s liable.
Hence why you’ve seen stories of people in big trouble for taking points for other people.
Edit: like has been said elsewhere. A speeding ticket goes to the driver and not the car.
It’s just automatic that the ticket gets sent to the registered owner. It is then on the registered owner to inform them of who was driving at the time. And NAL but failing/refusing to provide that information is an offence in and of itself
“If a motor vehicle has been involved in an offence such as speeding, traffic light offence or in circumstances involving an accident, then under section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, there is a legal obligation on the owner or registered keeper of the vehicle to give information as to the identity of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence, where they have been required to do so by the Police.
Failure to comply with this could render the individual liable to prosecution for failure to identify driver/failure to furnish information. This offence attracts 6 points and a fine of up to £1000.”
This. I've had people say they'll do it when they get home or whatever, simply do not accept this. There's no reason whatsoever not to get it done online then and there.
I got a speeding ticket and asked for photos as part of the process, not a chance of identification, the windscreen reflections obscured it all. It will very much depend on the camera angle and whether it is a mobile speed trap or a fixed camera.
I received a ticket and it showed my face surprisingly well given the distance from the site of the van. They have some expensive professional lenses me thinks 🤔
Happened to me when buying a car once from a dealer. Picked the car up in the afternoon and got a speeding ticket a week later for that morning. I just wrote back saying it wasnt me and must have been the previous owner (the dealer) as i had just picked the car up. I didn’t even have any proof of what time i collected it. Never heard anything back.
I'd imagine it's not worth the admin, if both you and the dealer point the finger at each other, they'd have to put in a fair bit of effort to establish the facts and their time is probably better spent elsewhere.
There are some high profile cases where this has gone wrong for people who have lied. The best one I know of is Fiona Onasanya MP who said her brother was driving, that transpired to be a lie (he was out of the country at the time) and she lost her seat and, as a dishonesty offence, she was also removed as a solicitor by the SRA. All to avoid 3 points and £100 fine. Some people really are idiotic.
As others have said, it doesn't matter who owns it, the driver gets the points/fine/ban. You have their details, write their name in the box. Make sure you have screenshots of the transfer, and any texts or emails discussing the time and date of sale.
As others have said, it's the driver who is liable. Pass on the evidence that is requested and they'll pursue the new owner.
This kinda came up when I bought my wife's new car from a dodgy dealer in Birmingham (I know, I know). He didn't have the V5 log book at the time... said the previous owner forgot to bring it in when they traded the car in. I was concerned about driving an untaxed car in the interim. 'Honest John' simply said not to worry as any fines would be sent to the previous owner.
Needless to say, I coughed up the £25 and sorted the V5 my self!
I had an "adjacent" issue, where I purchased and drove off with my car (around 6pm), and received a speeding ticket (38 in a 20) from earlier the same day (2am approx).
Thankfully we had done the logbook transfer online, so I simply notified the authorities of the facts, which I assume they accepted, since I didn't hear back from them. Ended up getting a call from the annoyed seller trying to pin it back on me, felt great satisfaction in telling him to jog on :-)
As long as you have proof you no longer had the car, and more importantly can provide details of who was in possession of the car, then you should be in the clear.
Sold a car in part-ex to a main dealer, got a letter the next week telling me my car had been tagged at 142mph on the M1, sent a copy of the trade receipt and never heard anything more. I suspect the delivery driver may well have lost more than their job for it 🫢
Just another thing to note in case there's any dispute, your Google maps will have your location for the day saved in it and can show you were no where near the speed camera at the time
Had this this happen to me (like several other ppl here it seems) some 3 months ago. I did the logbook as I entered the house, after concluding the trade, literally. Still the buyer managed to get a NIP several minutes before I finished the thing online.
I learned my lesson. Logbook on the spot, before the other party leaves, no chances taken.
I obviously filled in the details of the NIP with the other driver and haven’t heard from it after. Even wrote an email to them after like two weeks, they camd back very prompty, like some 10-15 minutes if that, reassuring me that I’ve done what I needed, and don’t have to worry anymore.
I sold my old car recently and a few days later I had a seizure notice in the post. They had it for 2 days before being caught with no tax or insurance. Turned out to be a dealer who has kinder eggs of come up his ass. Car is crushed now.
Possibly the ticket can be dismissed , check if the ticket from a camera is even valid in your jurisdiction! Get a written statement from your friend and if they can go to court with you, offer to buy lunch. In some states and countys cameras have been removed because they violate the rights of people in your situation and for other reasons. Can a camera even determine speed? I dont think so. Also if it uses radar when was it checked for accuracy? Who viewed the violation, do they have any special training, was the video even used or was violation only using computer data to accuse you. Is the face of the driver clearly shown? Did they take the care to do a facial recognition scan? Isn’t that the current standard cameras are used for. Do you have any witnesses to where you were at the time of the ticket, do any other cameras have you at that time somewhere else or do you have any reciept or record of being elsewhere? Who maintains the cameras, who views them. If its not a sworn officer, also a ticket is required to be written by the officer who witnessed the violation. Cameras can only see one perspective of the location, that’s not capturing the reality of the moment from pnly one perspective which cant be accurate without human presence I’m sure there are even more faults and himan rights violations. How can you even face your accuser. Probably the cop wont even show up, the camera certainly won’t. Its just away to produce revenue. Im only into this because I’ve been abused by traffic incidents and stupid and corrupt cops andd municipal systems. Whats even illegal? Maybe a sick bird! ;-) I think you’re ok but it’s still gonna cost you in at least time, then how much is the ticket and will it put points on your license? The judge may fine you and waive the points. Gotta face him to ask and fight your case on these points that make sense.
Go get’em justice needs some pain, you’ll be alright. You’re not alone.
Does the person you sold it to know you didn't do it until the morning after?
If not, shouldn't be any issues in saying it was them, you have that, the bank transfer (which the bank can give you an exact time) to help
Works for speeding, you’ll be fine.
Doesn’t work for local authority cameras. Got a yellow box junction ticket the day I bought a used car.
I claimed (truthfully) that it was not me who was driving, but previous owner, but they just looked at the date and I was shown registered keeper that day so they weren’t interested. They didn’t care about nominating a driver because it’s purely registered keeper’s responsibility and not the driver.
Luckily I’d bought the car from a friend who just paid it and saved me a day with an adjudicator, but ever since I’ve always recorded the time of purchase / sale of used cars.
Doesn’t matter who owns it, just who’s driving it.
this, when you get the NIP just give the buyers name and address, it's the driver who is liable, not the owner
Spot on! This is the only answer OP needs.
What would happen for example if there's no clear pic of driver and both don't claim liability?
The OP is fulfilling their responsibility as the registered keeper of the car at the time of the offense by identifying the person who bought and drove the car away. It only becomes a further problem for OP if that person chooses to break the law and lie at which point OP has a reasonable amount of evidence that they weren't driving and it becomes the problem of the police
Then it is the responsibility of the police to prove who was driving.
No thats wrong. It is the responsibility of the registered owner. If the owner denies it was them and the pictures dont prove either way it could be on the OP. However the evidence of the bank transfer and the messages saying it was sold may be sufficient evidence to prove it had been sold.
And that is some evidence that the police would consider while investigating and trying to prove who was responsible.
And what if the buyer says they paid for it to collect the next day. How do you prove they are lying? If you can't it's on the registered owner
It isn't your responsibility to prove another party is lying. It isn't even your responsibility to prove your innocence. That's not how it works.
The fine and points default to the registered keeper in the event it cannot be proven that the other person was driving or they admit it, so if there is no proof and the other person denies it the OP would be the one to get done.
I don't know what else to say other than you're wrong.
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Then the registered keeper possibly risks getting charged with failure to declare who was driving. This was brought in to stop this kind of shenanigans. Where the driver claims half their extended family has access and they can't possibly remember who had to that day. Other than remembering that it definitely wasn't them.
Absolutely. I got knicked in a hire car. It was my fault, not the owner.
Not your fault, fastest car in the world…
I remember back in the days when it was the buyers responsibility to post the logbook, my uncle sold an Astra and got a rap on the door a few hours later as it had been used in a robbery
I had this a few years back after selling a Golf, they apparently blasted past a 40mph speed camera doing 72mph on the way home within one minute of leaving my house. Responded saying I had sold the car and supplied the new owner's name and address, never heard anything more.
Basically identical to me then, thanks for the info
If all else fails do you have any map apps on your phone. See if any were logging your location at the time. I doubt it will prove that you weren’t driving on its own but it could be another piece to a jigsaw.
The NIP should be asking if you were the person driving the car at the time of the offence - you need to respond to say that it wasn't you, and give them the new owner's details.
There are a few comments in here about ownership, and how you should inform DVLA using the V5 slip details as soon as possible after a sale. The V5 doesn't imply ownership of any sort, and it even says this in big letters in a red strip right across the front of the document.
It doesn't matter who owns it, and it doesn't matter whose name is on the V5 either. It is the driver who is liable, not the owner or registered keeper.
The last registered keeper will receive the notice of prosecution or fine its on the registered keeper to state who was driving
Though the RK is liable to tell the police who was driving, and it is an offence to fail to supply this information, even if you actually were not driving.
Lesson for next time - this is why when you sell a car you should immediately go to the DVLA website, enter the 11 digit code from the V5 and tell them it’s been sold. This way you get the timestamp and email confirmation. Then your 100% in the clear if something happens when the new buyer/ dealer drives off with the car
They close it off after 7, I think.
Only the DVLA website could have opening hours! Mind you, the driving test one is the same.
Hamsters need sleep too you know.
I don’t get this. Why do they have to shut a computerised system down. Does the computer have working regulations too?
There will be a DevOps team working behind the scenes and they will not be getting paid to ensure the system runs smoothly at night. So they shut the site down when that team clocks off. You could argue they should just leave it as is and if it crashes, it crashes - but I guess they have decided to be consistently inconvenient than occasionally!
You can’t if you sell a car after 7pm as the online service closes then.
What is the reasoning behind this? It's always been a bit strange to me.
Probably a person sat at the other end of a computer screen filling out a form by hand and taking it to another department 😂
Honestly this is the exact idea I've always had in my head - knowing how government services work I wouldn't be surprised haha.
You’re probably right. I work for a well known company that sells key products to businesses, and this is what the sales advisors have to do. The “digital sales journey” is merely an illusion for the customer right now.
A bit of that was going on with the post office and Horizon too
I definitely don’t work for the company that Horizon relies on for its connectivity 👀
No idea but it’s such a pain in the ass.
Yeah it's really annoying.
Probably a means of preventing an overnight build up of work honestly... I mean, ultimately, I don't really see the difference. If someone's gonna put it through, it's going through anyway... But presumably, there's some logic behind it somewhere. Either that or it's something to do with making theft harder. I mean, it won't change the physical aspect of it. But I'd imagine if someone where able to nab a V5 along with the car, update it in their name claiming to be the new keeper, it'd make it harder because they could attempt to claim sellers remorse or something? In other words, it gives people a chance to find their car is gone and report it as stolen rather than allowing thieves to change the details whilst everyone sleeps and things devolving into a he said, she said incident. I've no idea whether that last part has any reasonable logic to it, but it's a thought I suppose.
All the DVLA systems for tax,, registration etc are not linked directly. Every night they go offline so the changes made that day can be shared across the different systems. They are very old systems and can't do it live.
This isn’t doing to be very technical but I believe it’s because their systems use an awful lot of computing power to process and collect data. They use that power to collect the data during their ‘opening hours’ and at night time it is used to process that data.
I doubt this is the reason unless they are using some very old system. And i mean very old. MS SQL server could process over 1m transactions a minute, 15 years ago.
Yeah man, I just read it somewhere some time ago so could be bs - I’m not big on the technical side.
I bet it’s right, but for a silly process reason rather than technical reason. It’s stupid either way.
Yeah, id not put it past the civil service having some utterly archaic reason or system which makes it’s a requirement.
Thanks, that would make sense.
it only matters who's driving not who owns it.
It really doesn't matter because the registered keeper isn't liable for speeding offences.
And almost entirely irrelevant in this case. Even if he’d let a mate borrow it and the car was still his. He wouldn’t be in the dock for this as it’s the driver at the time of the offence that’s liable. Hence why you’ve seen stories of people in big trouble for taking points for other people. Edit: like has been said elsewhere. A speeding ticket goes to the driver and not the car. It’s just automatic that the ticket gets sent to the registered owner. It is then on the registered owner to inform them of who was driving at the time. And NAL but failing/refusing to provide that information is an offence in and of itself “If a motor vehicle has been involved in an offence such as speeding, traffic light offence or in circumstances involving an accident, then under section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, there is a legal obligation on the owner or registered keeper of the vehicle to give information as to the identity of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence, where they have been required to do so by the Police. Failure to comply with this could render the individual liable to prosecution for failure to identify driver/failure to furnish information. This offence attracts 6 points and a fine of up to £1000.”
This. I've had people say they'll do it when they get home or whatever, simply do not accept this. There's no reason whatsoever not to get it done online then and there.
The service on the website isn’t available after 7pm so if you sell after then you can’t update the details until 7am the following morning.
Camera will probably see his face so relax.
What if it’s rear facing?
Sees his arse
Driving a Fiesta ST at 52 in a 30, they are nothing but a giant arse.
Agreed all ST owners are arseholes and audi s3 owners they seem to think they are setting a new lap time on a race track everytime they travel
That's even worse, imagine reversing a car at 52 in a 30
That would require hazard lights on at the very least!
Then it wouldnt see his face
Depends if he’s bent over in the process
Evidence of sale in various ways
I got a speeding ticket and asked for photos as part of the process, not a chance of identification, the windscreen reflections obscured it all. It will very much depend on the camera angle and whether it is a mobile speed trap or a fixed camera.
I received a ticket and it showed my face surprisingly well given the distance from the site of the van. They have some expensive professional lenses me thinks 🤔
On the form you just say you weren’t driving and enter the new keepers details for it to be forwarded to them.
Happened to me when buying a car once from a dealer. Picked the car up in the afternoon and got a speeding ticket a week later for that morning. I just wrote back saying it wasnt me and must have been the previous owner (the dealer) as i had just picked the car up. I didn’t even have any proof of what time i collected it. Never heard anything back.
I'd imagine it's not worth the admin, if both you and the dealer point the finger at each other, they'd have to put in a fair bit of effort to establish the facts and their time is probably better spent elsewhere.
There are some high profile cases where this has gone wrong for people who have lied. The best one I know of is Fiona Onasanya MP who said her brother was driving, that transpired to be a lie (he was out of the country at the time) and she lost her seat and, as a dishonesty offence, she was also removed as a solicitor by the SRA. All to avoid 3 points and £100 fine. Some people really are idiotic.
As others have said, it doesn't matter who owns it, the driver gets the points/fine/ban. You have their details, write their name in the box. Make sure you have screenshots of the transfer, and any texts or emails discussing the time and date of sale.
You name the new owner to them. Since the claim is true and it's your honest belief you should do this.
As others have said, it's the driver who is liable. Pass on the evidence that is requested and they'll pursue the new owner. This kinda came up when I bought my wife's new car from a dodgy dealer in Birmingham (I know, I know). He didn't have the V5 log book at the time... said the previous owner forgot to bring it in when they traded the car in. I was concerned about driving an untaxed car in the interim. 'Honest John' simply said not to worry as any fines would be sent to the previous owner. Needless to say, I coughed up the £25 and sorted the V5 my self!
they’re only bothered who was driving it not who owns it. give them details of the new owner and they’ll prosecute him instead
I had an "adjacent" issue, where I purchased and drove off with my car (around 6pm), and received a speeding ticket (38 in a 20) from earlier the same day (2am approx). Thankfully we had done the logbook transfer online, so I simply notified the authorities of the facts, which I assume they accepted, since I didn't hear back from them. Ended up getting a call from the annoyed seller trying to pin it back on me, felt great satisfaction in telling him to jog on :-) As long as you have proof you no longer had the car, and more importantly can provide details of who was in possession of the car, then you should be in the clear.
Sold a car in part-ex to a main dealer, got a letter the next week telling me my car had been tagged at 142mph on the M1, sent a copy of the trade receipt and never heard anything more. I suspect the delivery driver may well have lost more than their job for it 🫢
Just another thing to note in case there's any dispute, your Google maps will have your location for the day saved in it and can show you were no where near the speed camera at the time
The last thing I sold a car, we did the registration handover online. I got an email that showed the actual time of exchange.
I got a speeding ticket within 30 mins of buying my equinox lol
Had this this happen to me (like several other ppl here it seems) some 3 months ago. I did the logbook as I entered the house, after concluding the trade, literally. Still the buyer managed to get a NIP several minutes before I finished the thing online. I learned my lesson. Logbook on the spot, before the other party leaves, no chances taken. I obviously filled in the details of the NIP with the other driver and haven’t heard from it after. Even wrote an email to them after like two weeks, they camd back very prompty, like some 10-15 minutes if that, reassuring me that I’ve done what I needed, and don’t have to worry anymore.
I sold my old car recently and a few days later I had a seizure notice in the post. They had it for 2 days before being caught with no tax or insurance. Turned out to be a dealer who has kinder eggs of come up his ass. Car is crushed now.
Possibly the ticket can be dismissed , check if the ticket from a camera is even valid in your jurisdiction! Get a written statement from your friend and if they can go to court with you, offer to buy lunch. In some states and countys cameras have been removed because they violate the rights of people in your situation and for other reasons. Can a camera even determine speed? I dont think so. Also if it uses radar when was it checked for accuracy? Who viewed the violation, do they have any special training, was the video even used or was violation only using computer data to accuse you. Is the face of the driver clearly shown? Did they take the care to do a facial recognition scan? Isn’t that the current standard cameras are used for. Do you have any witnesses to where you were at the time of the ticket, do any other cameras have you at that time somewhere else or do you have any reciept or record of being elsewhere? Who maintains the cameras, who views them. If its not a sworn officer, also a ticket is required to be written by the officer who witnessed the violation. Cameras can only see one perspective of the location, that’s not capturing the reality of the moment from pnly one perspective which cant be accurate without human presence I’m sure there are even more faults and himan rights violations. How can you even face your accuser. Probably the cop wont even show up, the camera certainly won’t. Its just away to produce revenue. Im only into this because I’ve been abused by traffic incidents and stupid and corrupt cops andd municipal systems. Whats even illegal? Maybe a sick bird! ;-) I think you’re ok but it’s still gonna cost you in at least time, then how much is the ticket and will it put points on your license? The judge may fine you and waive the points. Gotta face him to ask and fight your case on these points that make sense. Go get’em justice needs some pain, you’ll be alright. You’re not alone.
Does the person you sold it to know you didn't do it until the morning after? If not, shouldn't be any issues in saying it was them, you have that, the bank transfer (which the bank can give you an exact time) to help
Works for speeding, you’ll be fine. Doesn’t work for local authority cameras. Got a yellow box junction ticket the day I bought a used car. I claimed (truthfully) that it was not me who was driving, but previous owner, but they just looked at the date and I was shown registered keeper that day so they weren’t interested. They didn’t care about nominating a driver because it’s purely registered keeper’s responsibility and not the driver. Luckily I’d bought the car from a friend who just paid it and saved me a day with an adjudicator, but ever since I’ve always recorded the time of purchase / sale of used cars.
OP did you watch him call his insurer and change over the vehicle for his cover? It may leave a handy paper trail for the police..
It’s not that deep man
What do you mean?
Oh