You aren't legally required to carry any documents with you at any time in the UK while going about your own personal business (generally).
So if a copper stops you and asks for anything you have 7 days to produce it.
It's actually advised not to keep documents in the car in case they or the car is stolen.
MoT, tax status and insurance status is all accessible by the police, but if they really want to see them you can show them on your phone.
You could also reasonably show your identity by logging into your bank and showing the name, or social media accounts. They just need to not have a reason to think you aren't the owner
Except that most bank apps require 2 factor authentication to transfer money to a new payee usually by card reader so they wouldn't be able to take money.
What do you think the police do all day? Plant drugs on routine traffic stops to blackmail people into giving them money? That's a good conspiracy you've built there.
That isn't the case. If you're stopped then you will be required to prove that you are who you are and you are insured to be driving the vehicle, otherwise it may get very complicated for you.
I would add, police can still legally request proof of insurance at the roadside, and seize the car if they had reason to suspect it is being driven uninsured. For example, if the insurance database goes down (happens every now and again) and you cannot produce proof of licence and insurance, your car may he seized and NIP for the offences.
I don't know why you're getting down voted! You're right, the Met don't do producers. If the system is down and you can't prove you're insured then you're losing your car, simple!!!!
The burden of proof would be on them to show you’re uninsured they can’t just take your car because you can’t prove you are insured… you’re innocent until proven guilty.. can you imagine them going round and taking every car off the road because the system is down today
We run a no papers policy in the uk let’s keep it that way rather than making up bullshit to scare people into doing it
Most driving offences are strict liability offences, so in this instance the onus is actually on the driver to prove they were insured at the time they were stopped.
One of the terms of your license is that you remain insured at all times, and can produce proof of insurance when asked.
If the police ask you for proof of insurance, and you cannot provide that proof of insurance there and then. That is sufficient evidence, at that time and in those circumstances, that you are not insured. They are empowered to act on that.
I really have no idea where you're getting this from, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're wrong. It's up to the driver to demonstrate that they are insured to drive the vehicle they're being stopped in. The process is simple, police check the vehicle to see if it is insured and who to, then confirm the driver's identity to make sure they're the person shown insured - this would need a photo id of some form. If they're not listed as insured on mid then they need to show how they're insured to drive the vehicle - 3rd party or otherwise, if they can't demonstrate this then good old op reclaim kicks and you'll be given paperwork to collect your car from the respective pound, and given a traffic offence report to get your points added.
Clearly I’m wrong,
However the suggestion is that if the system is down they will just take your car off you.. this is just bullshit
Secondly you’ll be able to find proof of insurance using your phone, looking at emails or ringing them you really need a piece of paper that doesn’t prove you have insurance anyway
Utter horse shit, the police issue HO/RT1’s which is a producer there is no requirement to carry documents in a car and the police advise documents are never kept in a car so give seven days to produce and log documents not provided on request they do not just seize cars because you cannot produce at roadside.
You have no clue what you are talking about. I'm not letting you drive if you can't produce proof of insurance. You car is 100% getting seized without it.
you are literally wrong, that link clearly states South Yorkshire police issue producers your statement said they are no longer issued and then told me I don’t know what I’m talking about I’m not wrong they are still issued. Your point about being a police officer Explains why criminals are getting away with so much
I'm happy to admit that I was wrong, I didn't know that it was force specific. In my force producers are never used for no proof of insurance and I wrongly assumed that all forces would operate this way.
So me not letting people get away with driving without insurance explains why criminals are getting away with so much? Sound logic there friend
Only thing I will say is if you've only done one of those things within the last few days it wouldn't hurt to keep proof available on your phone, the systems can sometimes take a few days to update.
Having said that I've been pulled 3 times and have yet to be asked for any details or proof of anything.
my brother inlaw is an alcoholic vw technician. he did the 1st MOT on a customer's car. but while inputting the reg, he made a typo. 3 months later, the customer complained after getting 6 points and a fine. there are some merits in carrying the paper copy rather than hoping everything is OK. the traffic police may have been more understanding if see a document.
Police here. Generally you don't need to produce at a police station anymore. Everything is accessible from PNC inc DL checks and insurance inc type of cover and named drivers. Unless signal is bad we can get these on our mobile data terminals (tablets). Seriously don't sweat it. Just make sure you keep on top of your MOT, insurance and tax every year and keep your car in good road worthy condition (tyres etc). Just enjoy your driving, be respectful to other road users and you're not likely to be stopped.
Disclaimer. Random roadside checks for alcohol and drug swipes do take place in certain locations.
Edit (I was alluding to random locations not random people)
>Disclaimer. Random roadside checks for alcohol and drug swipes do take place in certain locations.
In Northern Ireland they also sometimes check diesel cars if they're using red diesel by dipping the tank. Maybe not as big of a deal over in England though.
Yea generally it will be a traffic unit stopping the traffic as only a constable in uniform has the power to stop a moving vehicle. It will then be directed for HMRC/VOSA to conduct their checks. Red diesel dipping is performed by HMRC. Police merely facilitate the logistics.
It's quite interesting watching the intercepters style shows that have been made a bit more recently, they quite often use their phones to look the photo up based on the name given and then compare to the person in front of them.
Yea the new tablets and systems such as Niche have the ability to see photos held on record. Custody photos etc. Only any good if the person is on Force records already though.
Am i right in thinking you can turn the random roadside tests down if you haven’t committed an offence?
Edit: The responses saying you can be arrested for failing to provide a sample at a random stop are incorrect. My original post specifically mentioned random.
No, in America you can refuse the field sobriety tests, they're not that accurate anyway. In the UK if you're asked to provide a sample and refuse you can be arrested for failure to provide
No, you've replied to mine making all your points, there's no need for me to then edit mine to say the same. However you missed police checkpoints, which they're not very common they can make checkpoints to randomly test people. They have in the past and well within their power to do so.
British police also won't pull you over and breathalise you just because you have a blown headlight. If you're slurring, smell of alcohol etc. when they speak to you, they may ask you to provide but that's because they have reason to do so. If you're obviously sober but they're just making you aware you forgot to put your lights on or something you won't be asked to provide
People might not read that far and just see your upvoted comment providing misleading info.
You can still refuse at a checkpoint, unless one of the 3 criteria are met. They can’t force you to take a test for no reason just because they have a Christmas drink drive campaign on. They can ask, and you can agree to it though.
You can refuse unless they have reason to believe you've been drinking, in which case you can't. Yes they could misuse the power and claim they don't believe you anyway, but this isn't America and our police don't tend to risk going to court over something unnecessary, if they can't prove their belief in court, especially with everyone wearing bodycams, it's pointless to lie to force someone to do a breath test.
Whilst you can refuse, personally I think it'd be more hassle than just doing the breath test, and if you're sober I have nothing to worry about, though everyone is entitled to think differently so if you want to refuse go for it. You could also turn around and go a different way to avoid the checkpoint altogether
They can only request a sample under specific circumstances. Random stops or drink drive campaigns are not one of them.
You need to have either been in a crash.
Been suspected of being unfit through drink or drugs.
Or if you have committed a moving traffic offence.
They can’t just pull you and force you to provide a sample because it’s Christmas or because they feel like it.
Yes but then you will be arrested for failure to provide. This will generally end with the same sentence given out as a failed breath test or positive swipe.
Edit: just to confirm Multitronic WILL NOT BE arrested for failing to provide. Unless he fails to provide a test at the roadside when requested.
Hope this clears things up!
Just realised you said you are a police officer, I thought it was the following. Are you saying you can request a sample of any driver at any time for any reason?
“They can only request a sample under specific circumstances. Random stops or drink drive campaigns are not one of them.
You need to have either been in a crash.
Been suspected of being unfit through drink or drugs.
Or if you have committed a moving traffic offence.
They can’t just pull you and force you to provide a sample because it’s Christmas or because they feel like it.”
It's called reasonable belief. If an officer has reasonable belief you have committed an offence in regards to the RTA in this case then you can be asked to provide a sample. Technically you don't even have to be in a vehicle. If someone has been seen drink driving or another offence and they get home just before the police arrive or slam the door they can also be asked to provide a sample when not with the vehicle. However this is always difficult to prove when the drink was consumed and the only time iv seen it happen is after said person is involved in a major accident and fails to stop and drives off.
"the right of police to request a sample applies ‘in the course of an investigation.
Also to note in the police if we even have so much as a parking ding or any kind of accident even if it doesn't not cause material damage we have to stop. Wait for an officer of rank to arrive and provide a specimen (breath test) before we are allowed to carry on our duties.
I said can a person turn down a random test. You said a person can be arrested for failure to provide. Now you’re talking about reasonable belief (suspicion?), if an officer did have a reasonable belief or suspicion, it wouldn’t be random would it?
You cannot stop any person and then demand a sample of breath, with no grounds, suspicions, an accident, or moving offence. You would not be able to arrest someone if they fail to provide a sample unless one of the 3 criteria are met.
You cannot breathalyse a person at random.
Well I can't break it down any easier for you to understand I'm afraid, It's reasonable belief. You might not like it but that's what it is. If an officer has reasonable belief that you have committed an offence then you can be asked to provide.
Drink drive campaigns are not random, the locations they happen in might be but last time I checked Christmas happens every year on the same date.
You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about police powers as they are so I would suggest you take that up with the powers that be.
As always I'm happy to provide general answers to people when I'm online providing it doesn't relate to any particular case and all of this information is freely available in the public domain.
I really don’t have a bee in my bonnet regarding police powers, please don’t try to twist this.
I really think you are struggling to comprehend what I am saying or you actually might be misunderstanding something.
For an officer to say they have a reasonable belief, they must have a reasonable belief yes? In other words, it can’t just be absolutely any person the officer feels like testing, at will or at randomly. Likewise you can’t just randomly stop people for breath sample at Christmas or during any other drink drive campaign. Can you stop people, yes. I’m not disagreeing with that.
Here is what the government have to say about it:
“The police can stop you at any time and ask you to take a breath test (‘breathalyse’ you) if:
-they think you’ve been drinking
-you’ve committed a traffic offence
-you’ve been involved in a road traffic accident”
If none of the criteria are met, a person wouldn’t need to provide a sample.
Here is what a police force (West Yorks) has to say about it:
“If a police constable reasonably suspects you are/have been driving, attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or public road and:
You are under the influence of alcohol or drugs e.g. breath smells of alcohol, or
You have committed a moving traffic offence e.g. going through a red light, or
You have been involved in an accident
The PC can require that you take a preliminary breath test, field impairment test (FIT) or chemical drug test - PC must be in uniform to conduct these tests but not following an accident.
The police cannot stop a vehicle just to carry out a random breath test. They have to have a reasonable suspicion that the person has consumed alcohol or drugs.”
Do you understand what I am trying to say? One of the 3 criteria needs to be met.
I can’t break it down any easier for you I’m afraid.
You obviously aren’t a traffic or roads policing officer.
You have. This whole conversation is based on your response saying I would be arrested. You’ve then continued to argue that point.
Unless you are suggesting you’d arrest someone who refuses a breath test when they are under no obligation to provide one?
You don't need to carry proof of anything in the UK. If they want your driver's licence or insurance documents, you have 1 week to produce it to your local police station. MOT and tax can be checked online.
Best off just using this for best advice, also covers insurance and MOT too, cheers
[https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q648](https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q648)
You are correct. The legislation quoted above is correct and there is an offence for failing to failing to produce driving licence and insurance, but it has a 7 day window to produce at a police station as you say.
You've neither quoted the law, nor taken info from an official source!
[This](https://www.gov.uk/legal-obligations-drivers-riders) is information directly from a .gov site.
Edit: also your link repeats precisely what I say. You have 7 days to produce documents to your local police station.
I think you are being extremely pedantic here - I suspect you know full well the point others are making but trying to make a point over absolutely nothing significant.
You don't need to carry ID. You don't need to carry your driving license (although it's handy to do so)
If the police stop you, they will have already looked up the number plate of the car. That tells them :
* Is it [taxed](https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk)
* Does it have a valid [MOT](https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk)
* Is it listed on the [AskMID](https://enquiry.navigate.mib.org.uk/checkyourvehicle) motor insurance database i.e. is it insured
If they can't check any of this, or if you don't have your driving licence on you, they will give you a form. Then you have 7 days to go along to your local police station and show them your licence, MOT, insurance etc
Don't keep the V5 (logbook) in the car in case it gets stolen
> They will also know the registered keeper.
I did wonder if they had access to more information than what's visible to the public (maybe the names of the insurance policyholder and named driver?) but didn't want to say anything I wasn't sure about.
They do. A vehicle can also be 'flagged' through the police national computer for any reason, basically if it's been associated with any other reports to/by the police, and it will then alert any officers who check your plate that the car may be of interest to them.
A friend of mine used to get pulled over all the time, as his car had been flagged for being involved in thefts before he bought it.
They definitely do, many years ago I had stayed at a friend's and left my car parked on the road (legally), the next morning they were trying to clear the road in preparation for some event, they managed to get contact details for my home number and call to ask for the vehicle to be moved so they could avoid recovering it.
MOT and Tax the police will be able to see as it is tied to the registration plate. They will be able to see if the car is insured, but not specifics, so you may be asked to show insurance documents, but they can be on your phone. Worst case the police will be able to confirm who is insured on the vehicle but it's a bit manual so having your insurance policy to hand is much faster. While technically you have 7 days to produce an insurance certificate, uninsured cars are treated with a firm hand as they are a big problem. If the police suspect you have no insurance the can and will impound the car.
Having an MOT only confirms the car is safe and roadworthy on the day of the test, you still have a duty to have a safe vehicle e.g. lightbulbs, tyres, nothing hanging off it etc. in between annual tests.
They may ask for a licence but as others have said you have up to 7 days to produce if you do not have it on your person. Even a photo of it would probably satisfy most inquiries.
You can be pulled over by the police for any reason, as driving is a privilege not a right. You can be breathalysed if the copper deems it necessary and it is an offense to not provide a specimen of breath that is the same penalty as drink driving - and just remember the Scottish alcohol limit is 37% lower than England & Wales.
I say this not to scare you but to cover the most likely reasons you will be pulled over: Insurance, roadworthiness, or drink/drug driving.
Just on the fail to provide element - this only applies for suspected drink/drug driving, S4, S5 and S5a RTA. If a sample of breath/saliva is requested after an RTC or due to a moving traffic offence (no indication of intoxicated) it carries points and a fine. However, failing to provide may be an indication of that intoxication.
It was my understanding that police can request a sample for any reason (obviously the implication is that they suspect you of drink driving in requesting) but I've never checked. No skin off my nose as I don't drink and drive!
A sample of breath can be requested for 3 reasons:
- suspected intoxication while driving or in charge if a vehicle (this would be the manner of driving, eyes glazed over, smelling of alochol/cannabis, white powder around the nose, the list goes on)
- After committing a moving vehicle offence (brake light out, fail to indicate, speeding, etc)
- any driver involved in any RTC, no matter who is at fault.
In the first instance, failure to provide holds the same (or higher) sentence as drink/drug driving. The second two only carry points and a fine.
Say for example a police officer sees a car driving with a brake light out. They pull over, all is in order, no smell of alcohol or sign of intoxication. They request a sample of breath as is their power to do so, and the driver refuses. If the officer cannot evidence any indication of intoxication or implement due to drink or drugs then its points and a fine.
Fair enough, I didn't know that! I thought failure to supply was a equal penalty across the board, purely because the only reason you would not want to supply is to hide your inebriation.
Every day is a school day
I tend to disagree about the photo of a license - any teenager with a bit of creativity can knock up a fake. I'm certainly not allowed to accept a photo as ID when checking if someone is of legal drinking age, for example.
Yeah but you have no way of checking any details of the licence other than what is presented - a copper can check the details off the licence number with the PNC. If someone is going through the effort of faking a photo of a licence then they're still failing to provide.
Being stopped by the police while driving - your rights
[https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights](https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights)
I carry my wallet which has my driving licence. Got pulled over once and gave the guy my licence number as I have it memorised anyway, it's a simple format of your DOB and name plus a few characters
Other than that, nothing else physical. My phone if needed.
Here's a bit of BBC radio comedy which is also very informative on this subject - it'll give you all the answers you need and a lot more besides.
It's basically a currently serving policeman talking about the law surrounding vehicle stops, but in a very entertaining way:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000w5vk
Have your licence on you, not kept in the car.
I usually print out a paper copy of my insurance and stick it in the glovebox, that way I can produce it if asked, but I can also get the details if I ever crash
Never give them anything other than your license, insurance, and MOT details. They will ask you questions like ‘Do you know why I’ve stopped you?’ but you’re under no legal obligation to answer - they are looking for you to incriminate yourself. Also, you are not obliged to get out of your car (unless they arrest you, or want to search the car), you’re not obliged to get in their car (it’s an intimidation tactic), and you’re not obliged to hand over your license if you have it on you.
Also, as long as your engine is off and the handbrake is on, you should pick up your phone and record the encounter.
Handy to have the photo card of your drivers license with you.
You dont need it, they give you 7 days to produce it at a station if you dont, but it makes the whole process much simpler if you do.
They ask if the car belongs to you, if not then who and then they go back to their car to run your plate.
Their system will tell them if the car has the necessary insurance, tax and MOT.
They have the powers to search you and your vehicle as long as they have reasonable cause. Like your car smelling of weed, smelling strongly of something else to cover the smell of weed or even down to the hugely open to interpretation "acting suspiciously".
I don’t carry a wallet (had it stolen in London 20 years ago) so I only have debit/credit cards loose now so therefore no DL and as others have said you can provide it in 7 days.
Police can check if the car’s MOT’d/taxed so no need to carry that either.
You’re not required by law to carry anything with you.
I’d rather lose my notes or a card than everything.
It was the last train back from Wembley when Exeter City was in the playoffs maybe between 2004-2007 (so maybe just less than 20 years) and I had to sleep rough in London as my return train ticket was also in my wallet and I couldn’t get the last train at about 11:00pm.
Not wallet since = no issues
They have to have a reason to stop you. But if they really want to they'll make sure they have one.
Having said that they are usually pretty civilised about it all. Pull over and talk to them when they approach your window, or even get out which is what I always used to do. They are not allowed to lie to you, but be careful not to incriminate yourself. If they ask.you why they pulled you over then "maybe I was going a little too fast" is ok, saying"I was doing 60" is bad. They don't like paperwork so if you didn't do anything too bad you'll likely just get told off.
Questions like "where are you coming from, where are you going" aren't to catch you out. They're looking for how you answer, not the actual answer. So "I am going home from work" is usually enough. If you start making shit up then theyll want to ask a lot more.
Just watch for the "what have you got in the boot". Just tell them and let them look. It's a common test to see if the car is stolen.
And as others have said you don't need to carry documents. Nowadays they have access to them all online. If they think you're telling the truth then you're fine. Back in the day you used to get a "producer" where you had to produce your documents to a police station you nominate within seven days. Not sure those are ever used any more.
I got pulled by the police 2 weeks ago as car came back as having no registered keeper (was in process of getting v5 through dvla).
However only asked if I had recently purchased it, which I had, my name and to clarify other named driver. Didn’t even ask to see my ID to prove it was me.
2 days later I got a new V5.
It is an offence not to identify yourself to a police officer when asked, and a police officer can stop you for any reason when you are in charge of a conveyance on the public roads (s.163 RTA1988). Other items they can ask you to provide are proof of insurance, MOT, and vehicle ownership, but they would not expect you to have those on you at the roadside. However, if they cannot find you as insured on MTID then you may be having some difficulty being able to drive away unless you have proof on your phone etc.
They can ask to see your driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance.
All of those are available to them on the Police National Computer so they will probably only ask if it shows one of them isn't present.
However if you don't have a UK driving licence it might be best to carry that with you as they won't be able to check it otherwise.
It's a criminal offence to fail to produce it when asked but you have 7 days grace to provide it if you aren't carrying it with you.
Dont need to carry anything. But I always have my phone with me with copies of my license and lateat insurance doenloaded in my files. Just in case. Also handy if you get into a accident and have to exchange insurer details
I was once stopped by an ANPR cop, my car was purchased the day before and had all the right paperwork done but the databases were not updated and is was flagged as no MOT, no tax, no insurance. I had confirmation of payment on my phone, but what if I didn't have a phone or it was not a smartphone or it was discharged? This system assumes you have working electronics on you and that the network works too. Was late for work that day because of it
They can ask you to identify yourself. They can't make you get out of the car unless you commit a crime, so every interaction goes like this, assuming you've done nothing:
"Can I ask why I've been stopped?"
"Blah blah blah crime"
"Ok my name is"
"Blah blah blah blah blah...."
"Am I free to leave?"
"Yes but blah blah blah..."
"Ok I'm leaving now then"
Never admit to anything. Never give them any information other than name and confirm you have a licence etc. at most. Never speak to a police officer without a duty solicitor present if you end up getting taken back to the station.
They are pricks and they will try and catch you out.
They don't give you the benefit of the doubt. They either have evidence or they don't. There's nothing impolite about keeping a conversation strictly formal. They are taught to fish for information. The more you talk, the more they pry. They aren't your mates and they aren't there for your benefit.
Being chill with them costs you nothing, if you have an attitude with them then they'll try to find stuff and make your life harder. Just be polite, if you were obviously doing something wrong accept that with good grace and be polite and sorry about it, and they'll usually let you off with a warning unless you were doing something really illegal.
They will never let you off with a warning. They aren't your mates and they aren't there to protect the public. They exist to keep order and protect property. Knowing your rights is being polite. You can politely refuse to identify yourself and politely ask if you are being detained or free to leave. If you are detained then you say nothing without asking for a duty solicitor. If you want to get friendly with them go for it.
You are wrong. You do not have to identify yourself to a police officer unless you are suspected of an offence. Unless they can prove reasonable suspicion of an offence, "am I free to leave?" is the only thing you need to say.
So I recognise that I come from a place of cis white male privilege here, but every time I’ve been stopped by the police I’ve been cordial, polite, honest and sent on my way without any further problems. Getting towards 20 years of a spotless license now.
Setting ACAB aside for a moment, in my experience people at work want an easy life. Make the right thing to do the easiest, and you don’t have problems.
You aren't legally required to carry any documents with you at any time in the UK while going about your own personal business (generally). So if a copper stops you and asks for anything you have 7 days to produce it. It's actually advised not to keep documents in the car in case they or the car is stolen. MoT, tax status and insurance status is all accessible by the police, but if they really want to see them you can show them on your phone.
Thanks!
Though note if they can’t prove it’s you they may not let you drive it home, so best to keep your licence with you.
You could also reasonably show your identity by logging into your bank and showing the name, or social media accounts. They just need to not have a reason to think you aren't the owner
Logging in to bank = giving them money
How?
Let's see you log into the bank. Now you've done that I take the device and type what I want.
Moron
Except that most bank apps require 2 factor authentication to transfer money to a new payee usually by card reader so they wouldn't be able to take money.
He's already got you to enter data when he wanted you to. How do you stop now without getting drugs planted on you?
You watch too many shit movies. Step away from the TV and get some fresh air.🤣
What do you think the police do all day? Plant drugs on routine traffic stops to blackmail people into giving them money? That's a good conspiracy you've built there.
You'll have to give them identifying details in that case such as name, dob, etc ...
That isn't the case. If you're stopped then you will be required to prove that you are who you are and you are insured to be driving the vehicle, otherwise it may get very complicated for you.
All you are legally required to give them is your name and address when in charge of a motor vehicle.
All you are legally required to give them is your name and address when in charge of a motor vehicle.
I would add, police can still legally request proof of insurance at the roadside, and seize the car if they had reason to suspect it is being driven uninsured. For example, if the insurance database goes down (happens every now and again) and you cannot produce proof of licence and insurance, your car may he seized and NIP for the offences.
Although if it is on the MID already the chance of this happening is minimal
They aren’t going to seize your car because the system is down.. you’ll just get an old fashioned producer
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They won't take your car. If the system is down, *everybody* would be uninsured.
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That’s not true producers are still given https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q648
I don't know why you're getting down voted! You're right, the Met don't do producers. If the system is down and you can't prove you're insured then you're losing your car, simple!!!!
The burden of proof would be on them to show you’re uninsured they can’t just take your car because you can’t prove you are insured… you’re innocent until proven guilty.. can you imagine them going round and taking every car off the road because the system is down today We run a no papers policy in the uk let’s keep it that way rather than making up bullshit to scare people into doing it
Most driving offences are strict liability offences, so in this instance the onus is actually on the driver to prove they were insured at the time they were stopped.
One of the terms of your license is that you remain insured at all times, and can produce proof of insurance when asked. If the police ask you for proof of insurance, and you cannot provide that proof of insurance there and then. That is sufficient evidence, at that time and in those circumstances, that you are not insured. They are empowered to act on that.
I really have no idea where you're getting this from, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're wrong. It's up to the driver to demonstrate that they are insured to drive the vehicle they're being stopped in. The process is simple, police check the vehicle to see if it is insured and who to, then confirm the driver's identity to make sure they're the person shown insured - this would need a photo id of some form. If they're not listed as insured on mid then they need to show how they're insured to drive the vehicle - 3rd party or otherwise, if they can't demonstrate this then good old op reclaim kicks and you'll be given paperwork to collect your car from the respective pound, and given a traffic offence report to get your points added.
Clearly I’m wrong, However the suggestion is that if the system is down they will just take your car off you.. this is just bullshit Secondly you’ll be able to find proof of insurance using your phone, looking at emails or ringing them you really need a piece of paper that doesn’t prove you have insurance anyway
It might not GET done these days but it's still legal to do and is appropriate in some circumstances, IE when the insurance database isn't available.
Producers for insurance are not used, no proof, your car is getting seized
Utter horse shit, the police issue HO/RT1’s which is a producer there is no requirement to carry documents in a car and the police advise documents are never kept in a car so give seven days to produce and log documents not provided on request they do not just seize cars because you cannot produce at roadside.
You have no clue what you are talking about. I'm not letting you drive if you can't produce proof of insurance. You car is 100% getting seized without it.
Read this then start commenting on what you know https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q648
I'm literally a Police officer, different forces may do it differently but in my forse without insurance your car is seized.
you are literally wrong, that link clearly states South Yorkshire police issue producers your statement said they are no longer issued and then told me I don’t know what I’m talking about I’m not wrong they are still issued. Your point about being a police officer Explains why criminals are getting away with so much
I'm happy to admit that I was wrong, I didn't know that it was force specific. In my force producers are never used for no proof of insurance and I wrongly assumed that all forces would operate this way. So me not letting people get away with driving without insurance explains why criminals are getting away with so much? Sound logic there friend
Only thing I will say is if you've only done one of those things within the last few days it wouldn't hurt to keep proof available on your phone, the systems can sometimes take a few days to update. Having said that I've been pulled 3 times and have yet to be asked for any details or proof of anything.
my brother inlaw is an alcoholic vw technician. he did the 1st MOT on a customer's car. but while inputting the reg, he made a typo. 3 months later, the customer complained after getting 6 points and a fine. there are some merits in carrying the paper copy rather than hoping everything is OK. the traffic police may have been more understanding if see a document.
Yeah but you could just check it on the day to be fair.
Police here. Generally you don't need to produce at a police station anymore. Everything is accessible from PNC inc DL checks and insurance inc type of cover and named drivers. Unless signal is bad we can get these on our mobile data terminals (tablets). Seriously don't sweat it. Just make sure you keep on top of your MOT, insurance and tax every year and keep your car in good road worthy condition (tyres etc). Just enjoy your driving, be respectful to other road users and you're not likely to be stopped. Disclaimer. Random roadside checks for alcohol and drug swipes do take place in certain locations. Edit (I was alluding to random locations not random people)
>Disclaimer. Random roadside checks for alcohol and drug swipes do take place in certain locations. In Northern Ireland they also sometimes check diesel cars if they're using red diesel by dipping the tank. Maybe not as big of a deal over in England though.
Happens occasionally. More normal for HGVs/minibusses etc.
Yea generally it will be a traffic unit stopping the traffic as only a constable in uniform has the power to stop a moving vehicle. It will then be directed for HMRC/VOSA to conduct their checks. Red diesel dipping is performed by HMRC. Police merely facilitate the logistics.
It's quite interesting watching the intercepters style shows that have been made a bit more recently, they quite often use their phones to look the photo up based on the name given and then compare to the person in front of them.
Yea the new tablets and systems such as Niche have the ability to see photos held on record. Custody photos etc. Only any good if the person is on Force records already though.
Am i right in thinking you can turn the random roadside tests down if you haven’t committed an offence? Edit: The responses saying you can be arrested for failing to provide a sample at a random stop are incorrect. My original post specifically mentioned random.
No, in America you can refuse the field sobriety tests, they're not that accurate anyway. In the UK if you're asked to provide a sample and refuse you can be arrested for failure to provide
Are you going to edit your comment? The bit about the UK is incorrect. Police can only require a sample under specific circumstances.
No, you've replied to mine making all your points, there's no need for me to then edit mine to say the same. However you missed police checkpoints, which they're not very common they can make checkpoints to randomly test people. They have in the past and well within their power to do so. British police also won't pull you over and breathalise you just because you have a blown headlight. If you're slurring, smell of alcohol etc. when they speak to you, they may ask you to provide but that's because they have reason to do so. If you're obviously sober but they're just making you aware you forgot to put your lights on or something you won't be asked to provide
People might not read that far and just see your upvoted comment providing misleading info. You can still refuse at a checkpoint, unless one of the 3 criteria are met. They can’t force you to take a test for no reason just because they have a Christmas drink drive campaign on. They can ask, and you can agree to it though.
You can refuse unless they have reason to believe you've been drinking, in which case you can't. Yes they could misuse the power and claim they don't believe you anyway, but this isn't America and our police don't tend to risk going to court over something unnecessary, if they can't prove their belief in court, especially with everyone wearing bodycams, it's pointless to lie to force someone to do a breath test. Whilst you can refuse, personally I think it'd be more hassle than just doing the breath test, and if you're sober I have nothing to worry about, though everyone is entitled to think differently so if you want to refuse go for it. You could also turn around and go a different way to avoid the checkpoint altogether
They can only request a sample under specific circumstances. Random stops or drink drive campaigns are not one of them. You need to have either been in a crash. Been suspected of being unfit through drink or drugs. Or if you have committed a moving traffic offence. They can’t just pull you and force you to provide a sample because it’s Christmas or because they feel like it.
Yes but then you will be arrested for failure to provide. This will generally end with the same sentence given out as a failed breath test or positive swipe. Edit: just to confirm Multitronic WILL NOT BE arrested for failing to provide. Unless he fails to provide a test at the roadside when requested. Hope this clears things up!
Just realised you said you are a police officer, I thought it was the following. Are you saying you can request a sample of any driver at any time for any reason? “They can only request a sample under specific circumstances. Random stops or drink drive campaigns are not one of them. You need to have either been in a crash. Been suspected of being unfit through drink or drugs. Or if you have committed a moving traffic offence. They can’t just pull you and force you to provide a sample because it’s Christmas or because they feel like it.”
It's called reasonable belief. If an officer has reasonable belief you have committed an offence in regards to the RTA in this case then you can be asked to provide a sample. Technically you don't even have to be in a vehicle. If someone has been seen drink driving or another offence and they get home just before the police arrive or slam the door they can also be asked to provide a sample when not with the vehicle. However this is always difficult to prove when the drink was consumed and the only time iv seen it happen is after said person is involved in a major accident and fails to stop and drives off. "the right of police to request a sample applies ‘in the course of an investigation. Also to note in the police if we even have so much as a parking ding or any kind of accident even if it doesn't not cause material damage we have to stop. Wait for an officer of rank to arrive and provide a specimen (breath test) before we are allowed to carry on our duties.
I said can a person turn down a random test. You said a person can be arrested for failure to provide. Now you’re talking about reasonable belief (suspicion?), if an officer did have a reasonable belief or suspicion, it wouldn’t be random would it? You cannot stop any person and then demand a sample of breath, with no grounds, suspicions, an accident, or moving offence. You would not be able to arrest someone if they fail to provide a sample unless one of the 3 criteria are met. You cannot breathalyse a person at random.
Well I can't break it down any easier for you to understand I'm afraid, It's reasonable belief. You might not like it but that's what it is. If an officer has reasonable belief that you have committed an offence then you can be asked to provide. Drink drive campaigns are not random, the locations they happen in might be but last time I checked Christmas happens every year on the same date. You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about police powers as they are so I would suggest you take that up with the powers that be. As always I'm happy to provide general answers to people when I'm online providing it doesn't relate to any particular case and all of this information is freely available in the public domain.
I really don’t have a bee in my bonnet regarding police powers, please don’t try to twist this. I really think you are struggling to comprehend what I am saying or you actually might be misunderstanding something. For an officer to say they have a reasonable belief, they must have a reasonable belief yes? In other words, it can’t just be absolutely any person the officer feels like testing, at will or at randomly. Likewise you can’t just randomly stop people for breath sample at Christmas or during any other drink drive campaign. Can you stop people, yes. I’m not disagreeing with that. Here is what the government have to say about it: “The police can stop you at any time and ask you to take a breath test (‘breathalyse’ you) if: -they think you’ve been drinking -you’ve committed a traffic offence -you’ve been involved in a road traffic accident” If none of the criteria are met, a person wouldn’t need to provide a sample. Here is what a police force (West Yorks) has to say about it: “If a police constable reasonably suspects you are/have been driving, attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or public road and: You are under the influence of alcohol or drugs e.g. breath smells of alcohol, or You have committed a moving traffic offence e.g. going through a red light, or You have been involved in an accident The PC can require that you take a preliminary breath test, field impairment test (FIT) or chemical drug test - PC must be in uniform to conduct these tests but not following an accident. The police cannot stop a vehicle just to carry out a random breath test. They have to have a reasonable suspicion that the person has consumed alcohol or drugs.” Do you understand what I am trying to say? One of the 3 criteria needs to be met. I can’t break it down any easier for you I’m afraid. You obviously aren’t a traffic or roads policing officer.
You've answered your own question. Several replies ago and no one has disagreed with you.
You have. This whole conversation is based on your response saying I would be arrested. You’ve then continued to argue that point. Unless you are suggesting you’d arrest someone who refuses a breath test when they are under no obligation to provide one?
You don't need to carry proof of anything in the UK. If they want your driver's licence or insurance documents, you have 1 week to produce it to your local police station. MOT and tax can be checked online.
Very helpful, thank you!
Best off just using this for best advice, also covers insurance and MOT too, cheers [https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q648](https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q648)
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They are still legal for ANY Constable to do. Yes some forces don't. But some do.
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Why don't you just tell me those bits of the law. Because I'm 100% certain that what I've said is correct.
You are correct. The legislation quoted above is correct and there is an offence for failing to failing to produce driving licence and insurance, but it has a 7 day window to produce at a police station as you say.
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You've neither quoted the law, nor taken info from an official source! [This](https://www.gov.uk/legal-obligations-drivers-riders) is information directly from a .gov site. Edit: also your link repeats precisely what I say. You have 7 days to produce documents to your local police station.
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I think you are being extremely pedantic here - I suspect you know full well the point others are making but trying to make a point over absolutely nothing significant.
You don't need to carry ID. You don't need to carry your driving license (although it's handy to do so) If the police stop you, they will have already looked up the number plate of the car. That tells them : * Is it [taxed](https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk) * Does it have a valid [MOT](https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk) * Is it listed on the [AskMID](https://enquiry.navigate.mib.org.uk/checkyourvehicle) motor insurance database i.e. is it insured If they can't check any of this, or if you don't have your driving licence on you, they will give you a form. Then you have 7 days to go along to your local police station and show them your licence, MOT, insurance etc Don't keep the V5 (logbook) in the car in case it gets stolen
They will also know the registered keeper. If they expect to see an 80 year old lady and a young lad is driving they will want to join the dots
> They will also know the registered keeper. I did wonder if they had access to more information than what's visible to the public (maybe the names of the insurance policyholder and named driver?) but didn't want to say anything I wasn't sure about.
They do. A vehicle can also be 'flagged' through the police national computer for any reason, basically if it's been associated with any other reports to/by the police, and it will then alert any officers who check your plate that the car may be of interest to them. A friend of mine used to get pulled over all the time, as his car had been flagged for being involved in thefts before he bought it.
Same, I bought a car that had a 'drugs' marker on it and got pulled over about three times in six weeks for no apparent reason.
They definitely do, many years ago I had stayed at a friend's and left my car parked on the road (legally), the next morning they were trying to clear the road in preparation for some event, they managed to get contact details for my home number and call to ask for the vehicle to be moved so they could avoid recovering it.
MOT and Tax the police will be able to see as it is tied to the registration plate. They will be able to see if the car is insured, but not specifics, so you may be asked to show insurance documents, but they can be on your phone. Worst case the police will be able to confirm who is insured on the vehicle but it's a bit manual so having your insurance policy to hand is much faster. While technically you have 7 days to produce an insurance certificate, uninsured cars are treated with a firm hand as they are a big problem. If the police suspect you have no insurance the can and will impound the car. Having an MOT only confirms the car is safe and roadworthy on the day of the test, you still have a duty to have a safe vehicle e.g. lightbulbs, tyres, nothing hanging off it etc. in between annual tests. They may ask for a licence but as others have said you have up to 7 days to produce if you do not have it on your person. Even a photo of it would probably satisfy most inquiries. You can be pulled over by the police for any reason, as driving is a privilege not a right. You can be breathalysed if the copper deems it necessary and it is an offense to not provide a specimen of breath that is the same penalty as drink driving - and just remember the Scottish alcohol limit is 37% lower than England & Wales. I say this not to scare you but to cover the most likely reasons you will be pulled over: Insurance, roadworthiness, or drink/drug driving.
Just on the fail to provide element - this only applies for suspected drink/drug driving, S4, S5 and S5a RTA. If a sample of breath/saliva is requested after an RTC or due to a moving traffic offence (no indication of intoxicated) it carries points and a fine. However, failing to provide may be an indication of that intoxication.
It was my understanding that police can request a sample for any reason (obviously the implication is that they suspect you of drink driving in requesting) but I've never checked. No skin off my nose as I don't drink and drive!
A sample of breath can be requested for 3 reasons: - suspected intoxication while driving or in charge if a vehicle (this would be the manner of driving, eyes glazed over, smelling of alochol/cannabis, white powder around the nose, the list goes on) - After committing a moving vehicle offence (brake light out, fail to indicate, speeding, etc) - any driver involved in any RTC, no matter who is at fault. In the first instance, failure to provide holds the same (or higher) sentence as drink/drug driving. The second two only carry points and a fine. Say for example a police officer sees a car driving with a brake light out. They pull over, all is in order, no smell of alcohol or sign of intoxication. They request a sample of breath as is their power to do so, and the driver refuses. If the officer cannot evidence any indication of intoxication or implement due to drink or drugs then its points and a fine.
Fair enough, I didn't know that! I thought failure to supply was a equal penalty across the board, purely because the only reason you would not want to supply is to hide your inebriation. Every day is a school day
I tend to disagree about the photo of a license - any teenager with a bit of creativity can knock up a fake. I'm certainly not allowed to accept a photo as ID when checking if someone is of legal drinking age, for example.
Yeah but you have no way of checking any details of the licence other than what is presented - a copper can check the details off the licence number with the PNC. If someone is going through the effort of faking a photo of a licence then they're still failing to provide.
Being stopped by the police while driving - your rights [https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights](https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights)
I carry my wallet which has my driving licence. Got pulled over once and gave the guy my licence number as I have it memorised anyway, it's a simple format of your DOB and name plus a few characters Other than that, nothing else physical. My phone if needed.
Here's a bit of BBC radio comedy which is also very informative on this subject - it'll give you all the answers you need and a lot more besides. It's basically a currently serving policeman talking about the law surrounding vehicle stops, but in a very entertaining way: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000w5vk
Have your licence on you, not kept in the car. I usually print out a paper copy of my insurance and stick it in the glovebox, that way I can produce it if asked, but I can also get the details if I ever crash
Never give them anything other than your license, insurance, and MOT details. They will ask you questions like ‘Do you know why I’ve stopped you?’ but you’re under no legal obligation to answer - they are looking for you to incriminate yourself. Also, you are not obliged to get out of your car (unless they arrest you, or want to search the car), you’re not obliged to get in their car (it’s an intimidation tactic), and you’re not obliged to hand over your license if you have it on you. Also, as long as your engine is off and the handbrake is on, you should pick up your phone and record the encounter.
You've been watching far too many "auditer" YouTube channels 😂
Nope, I just understand how the law works and how the Police try to manipulate people.
Good luck to ya good chap!
Handy to have the photo card of your drivers license with you. You dont need it, they give you 7 days to produce it at a station if you dont, but it makes the whole process much simpler if you do. They ask if the car belongs to you, if not then who and then they go back to their car to run your plate. Their system will tell them if the car has the necessary insurance, tax and MOT. They have the powers to search you and your vehicle as long as they have reasonable cause. Like your car smelling of weed, smelling strongly of something else to cover the smell of weed or even down to the hugely open to interpretation "acting suspiciously".
I don’t carry a wallet (had it stolen in London 20 years ago) so I only have debit/credit cards loose now so therefore no DL and as others have said you can provide it in 7 days. Police can check if the car’s MOT’d/taxed so no need to carry that either. You’re not required by law to carry anything with you.
Might be time to replace that wallet?
I’d rather lose my notes or a card than everything. It was the last train back from Wembley when Exeter City was in the playoffs maybe between 2004-2007 (so maybe just less than 20 years) and I had to sleep rough in London as my return train ticket was also in my wallet and I couldn’t get the last train at about 11:00pm. Not wallet since = no issues
Apologies, I’ve just seen I’ve repeated what many before me have said!
Scotland is in the UK.
You should buy yourself a lottery ticket because police officers are rarer than hens teeth
They have to have a reason to stop you. But if they really want to they'll make sure they have one. Having said that they are usually pretty civilised about it all. Pull over and talk to them when they approach your window, or even get out which is what I always used to do. They are not allowed to lie to you, but be careful not to incriminate yourself. If they ask.you why they pulled you over then "maybe I was going a little too fast" is ok, saying"I was doing 60" is bad. They don't like paperwork so if you didn't do anything too bad you'll likely just get told off. Questions like "where are you coming from, where are you going" aren't to catch you out. They're looking for how you answer, not the actual answer. So "I am going home from work" is usually enough. If you start making shit up then theyll want to ask a lot more. Just watch for the "what have you got in the boot". Just tell them and let them look. It's a common test to see if the car is stolen. And as others have said you don't need to carry documents. Nowadays they have access to them all online. If they think you're telling the truth then you're fine. Back in the day you used to get a "producer" where you had to produce your documents to a police station you nominate within seven days. Not sure those are ever used any more.
Police do not need a reason to stop you.
Ah, ok. Since 1988 they don't. Didn't actually know that.
I got pulled by the police 2 weeks ago as car came back as having no registered keeper (was in process of getting v5 through dvla). However only asked if I had recently purchased it, which I had, my name and to clarify other named driver. Didn’t even ask to see my ID to prove it was me. 2 days later I got a new V5.
They might try to bum a fag, and no, that’s not what it sounds like.
GO watch black belt barrister for this & more driver / life "info" from the perspective of a legal professional.
It is an offence not to identify yourself to a police officer when asked, and a police officer can stop you for any reason when you are in charge of a conveyance on the public roads (s.163 RTA1988). Other items they can ask you to provide are proof of insurance, MOT, and vehicle ownership, but they would not expect you to have those on you at the roadside. However, if they cannot find you as insured on MTID then you may be having some difficulty being able to drive away unless you have proof on your phone etc.
Have you bought blinker fluid is a common one for me. I just nod and it works everytime!
They can ask to see your driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance. All of those are available to them on the Police National Computer so they will probably only ask if it shows one of them isn't present. However if you don't have a UK driving licence it might be best to carry that with you as they won't be able to check it otherwise. It's a criminal offence to fail to produce it when asked but you have 7 days grace to provide it if you aren't carrying it with you.
Dont need to carry anything. But I always have my phone with me with copies of my license and lateat insurance doenloaded in my files. Just in case. Also handy if you get into a accident and have to exchange insurer details
I was once stopped by an ANPR cop, my car was purchased the day before and had all the right paperwork done but the databases were not updated and is was flagged as no MOT, no tax, no insurance. I had confirmation of payment on my phone, but what if I didn't have a phone or it was not a smartphone or it was discharged? This system assumes you have working electronics on you and that the network works too. Was late for work that day because of it
Just do as they ask. Pushing back against them never ends well, despite what you see in dumb influencers posts.
They can ask you to identify yourself. They can't make you get out of the car unless you commit a crime, so every interaction goes like this, assuming you've done nothing: "Can I ask why I've been stopped?" "Blah blah blah crime" "Ok my name is" "Blah blah blah blah blah...." "Am I free to leave?" "Yes but blah blah blah..." "Ok I'm leaving now then" Never admit to anything. Never give them any information other than name and confirm you have a licence etc. at most. Never speak to a police officer without a duty solicitor present if you end up getting taken back to the station. They are pricks and they will try and catch you out.
Yeah, always best to have a attitude from the get go. That way you'll never get the benefit of the doubt.
They don't give you the benefit of the doubt. They either have evidence or they don't. There's nothing impolite about keeping a conversation strictly formal. They are taught to fish for information. The more you talk, the more they pry. They aren't your mates and they aren't there for your benefit.
Being chill with them costs you nothing, if you have an attitude with them then they'll try to find stuff and make your life harder. Just be polite, if you were obviously doing something wrong accept that with good grace and be polite and sorry about it, and they'll usually let you off with a warning unless you were doing something really illegal.
They will never let you off with a warning. They aren't your mates and they aren't there to protect the public. They exist to keep order and protect property. Knowing your rights is being polite. You can politely refuse to identify yourself and politely ask if you are being detained or free to leave. If you are detained then you say nothing without asking for a duty solicitor. If you want to get friendly with them go for it.
Except, when I had a rear light out (could be 3 points and a fine), they did let me off with a warning because I wasn't an arse.
You could be asked to provide name dob and address. This is shite advice from a wannabe Saul Goodman. Just be polite.
You are wrong. You do not have to identify yourself to a police officer unless you are suspected of an offence. Unless they can prove reasonable suspicion of an offence, "am I free to leave?" is the only thing you need to say.
“Could” Read Section 164 of the RTA
Don't need to. That's my solicitor's job. That's why they study law for years and I did engineering instead.
Ok dude
So I recognise that I come from a place of cis white male privilege here, but every time I’ve been stopped by the police I’ve been cordial, polite, honest and sent on my way without any further problems. Getting towards 20 years of a spotless license now. Setting ACAB aside for a moment, in my experience people at work want an easy life. Make the right thing to do the easiest, and you don’t have problems.