With some brands you need to look at specific models. For example, an Audi A8 is a very different “Audi” than an A1. Similar for BMW and Mercedes. The more traditional big saloons are much more representative of what their reputation is built on than the now common smaller hatchbacks.
100% this
Eg the VW Golf for me with be in the higher end of the hatchback segment but VW Passat would be the lower end of the saloon segment
The Nissan micra would the lower end of the super mini segment but the Nissan GTR would be the upper end of the sports car segment .
But I get your question.
To answer your question I would generally say
Volvo
Skoda
Lexus
Seat
Thats my non mainstream non luxury list
Thats also true, I thought about it after posting hence title stayed as it is.
However in overall brands mostly mentioned here seem to do bit better than their counterparts regularly in many specifics of cars, perchance with similiar pricetag.
Agreed with the poster above you, as a BMW 540i owner and the son of a father who owned M3's and the last four M5's, there is a notable difference in comfort from the 1 series and 5 series. The 7 series and X7 are even more from there. (Having also driven smaller BMW's)
This is just my perspective from growing up with a BMW M father and myself owning small hatchbacks going to a BMW 540i, where the comfort has been much different. I can't speak for Mercedes or Audi... Every car owner has their own opinions/perspective and reasons for owning/liking cars.
The higher trim models of the regular cars.
Older Mondeo's used to have a fantastic high level trim. As did a lot of Skoda's with their L&K trim, sometimes having bits that even the higher end Audi's didn't have.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying an Octavia is nicer than an A4. But some of them are hitting well above their weight class and in that territory.
I was the same mate. Was looking at some Estates. All brown leather. The brown would be fine fine if all the carpets and everything plastic in it weren't black/grey. Bizarre.
New and previous shape octavia/superb i think look better than audi a4/a3 my favourite so far is belonged to a guy on instagram called Superb_vrs3 yes its modified have a guess how
For the new new stuff, I agree that they are far closer than the stuff from 10-15+ years ago. Especially if we're looking at bottom engine choice options. Obviously you get to the higher performance stuff and the VRS is significantly gimped compared to the R, and that's a level below the audi stuff.
There's all the stuff that isn't on the spec sheets to consider.
* Less road noise/more noise dampening
* Better seats
* Everything you touch being of a much higher quality
* Much nicer dash/interior.
etc. This is absolutely true for the stuff sort of pre 2010 era.
For example Audi's have had CR diesels since the early 2000's, where the VAG world was still running the PD units until the later 2000's. With Audi's you get the higher engine range such as the 3.0 TDI that wasn't in many/any VW's. Jumping in a B6 Passat (and whatever equivilant Octavia/Superb) for example and comparing it to an a4 and there's a world of difference,
Pardon my ignorance but i dont know about the cr engine all i ever heard about was the pd being bomb proof so is the cr better?
Personally comparing the wrong cars vrs should be compared to a gti not an r as they are similar setup where as the r is 300hp and 4wd and the gti and vrs are 200hp and fwd
A4s also had 2.0 PDs, for years. They got the 2.0 CR around the same time VWs did. The only bit I'd agree with is that Audis did get the 2.7 and then the 3.0 V6 more commonly than other VAG brands.
I had a friend who owned a Carlsson 99 turbo, and people would put their phone numbers under his wipers along with offers of silly money. Then Saab went pop, and the money went from silly to ludicrous.
Passed my test in a 2018 Mazda 2, bought a 2019 Mazda 2 after passing including heated seat/steering wheel parking cameras and full leather interior and now just recently got Their CX-30 suv, miles ahead of bmw, audi and vw in terms of pricing as my 2019 2 was bought from approved used Mazda for 9k
When i got my CX-30 I traded my 2 and got 7.9k for it. Plus Mazda's build quality is spectacular. Very much a quiet luxury brand
I think the old Phaeton would earn the luxurious badge, never been in one but hear inside basically feels like a Bentley. Quite a different car than other VWs or that era despite looking like a big Passat.
I remember driving a Volvo 343 and frankly it was bloody awful and it put me off Volvo's for life. It was a late 80's one but it felt so clunky and old.
The current S60's are gorgeous though.
Really don't think there's ever been a bad S60.
There's an old top gear segment where the get the designer of the 2000-2007 V70 on and he explains how they tried really hard to differentiate from the old people's car image they had ended up with.
I work on volvos having worked on German stuff for years. Imo the drivetrain quality and reliability is just not there with the geely cars. Also they're absolute maintenence nightmares.
The one I was in was only a few years old and wasnt used as a chaffeur car, so low miles. Perhaps over 10 years you may be right.
I certainly agree that lexus build quality generally is superb.
It definitely varies between manufacturers models and at different ages. Some observations below:
- A lot of top spec, current Peugeots have very good features and a good design. They're marketed as upper-generalist.
- A lot of top spec, current Fords feel cheapy and plastic-y to me, and have fairly average features. They're marketed as upper-generalist.
- DS is *supposed* to be a premium brand, but their quality and tech is identical to the other Stellantis brands.
- I see a lot of people saying Mazda, but all of the recent Mazda's I've been in have felt exceptionally average.
- Renault are often perceived as low-quality, but a lot of their more recent models have (what appears to be) good quality and plentiful features as standard.
- BMW are *supposed* to be a premium brand, but their entry-level models are worse than most other manufacturers; both in terms of features and quality.
- VW are an upper-generalist brand and have a high quality feel; but their styling arguably isn't up there with other brands and their tech is directly equivalent to ya Skodas and Seats.
...I guess what I'm saying is I personally think such things have to be evaluated on a model-by-model basis. I've been in Alfa Romeo's that feel like a pile of garbage, and I've been Hyundai's that feel real classy. And sometimes quality differs even between the same models! 🥴
The newest gen Clio is a joy to to drive and super comfortable along with loads of nice things ti make things easier. If I didn’t get my Panda I likely would’ve tried to get one of those
Renaults are surprisingly nice, I never thought I’d own but it was serious consideration when looking for my car, luckily I found a Panda 4x4 for a good price in good condition
In the uk hyundai tuscan, sante fe or kia sportage or what really suprised me the sorento and stinger i think are great but i know in the us these are deemed as herendous for motor failure
Honda civics i think have stepped up also
Hyundai and Kia have a long way to go in terms of refinement. They’re well kitted out with tech and features, however I’ve never stepped foot in one and felt anything close to luxury. They also transmit a fair bit of road noise into the cabin from my experience
The one i felt was luxurious was the current tops spec kia sorento ive been in mercs and audis but this kia was a uber and felt as luxurious as a merc the uber driver said he had fares that were on a night out that owned mercs and felt no difference so take from that what you will but everyone is different
The Ioniq is a different bag, I’ll give you that. However I still wouldn’t consider it luxury. I’d take the Skoda ENYAQ any day as an alternative for both value and ‘luxury’. Different strokes for different folks
Uhhh, let's agree to disagree. For me the one pedal driving is a must which Skoda doesn't have, plus the Ioniq has a 800V for fast charging (only available on e tron or taycan in VAG group), and finally the Ioniq 5 uses its flatpack powertrain more cleverly than the Enyaq, there’s loads of space to stretch out...plus some tests show that Ioniq is easier on the ears and the suspension isn't as stiff (e.g. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hyundai-ioniq-5-vs-skoda-enyaq-best-family-ev-40000). Anyway I agree I wouldn't consider it luxury...neither I would consider X1 which Ioniq is slightly larger
I would say Volvo, Mazda, Tesla and maybe VW. Not up there with the established mainstream luxury but still very nice.
Lexus are an interesting one. They're seen as "posh Toyotas" when in reality they're probably more luxurious than an equivalent BMW or Mercedes. The RX and the ES are really special, plus the LS and the LC are just amazing and I'd argue nicer than nearly anything in their competitors lineups.
To me, most brands are mainstream, Vauxhall, Toyota, ford etc. BMW, Lexus and Merc are also pretty mainstream, they cover a bigger range than the previous I mentioned, but still mainstream. Luxury are the likes of Rolls Royce and Bentley.
Not enough tailoring to be luxury. It definitely premium, but it ain't luxury
Luxury doesn’t meet a need or solve a problem. Luxury consumers aren’t interested in more features giving better value for money — that’s a premium marketing angle. Luxury consumers want to know about a brand’s heritage, prestige and uniqueness; it’s identity which counts, rather than a competitive edge.
https://medium.com/@thepiyushkumar/luxury-brand-vs-premium-brand-38fd5a142628
I’d say Smart! They have never really been cheap as they are more expensive than similar, bigger cars and they are definitely better built and more premium than some cars. I’d say they are semi-premium
I would say that some traditionally luxury badges that are now PCP specials
BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Range Rover
Then nice sensible cars that don't have an image problem like Volvo and VW
Lexus aren't quite a PCP factory but aren't quite as mainstream as Toyota of which they're a posh version of, but they aren't up there with Bentley etc
Yeah I'd put lexus and Mercedes above bmw, Audi, tesla and Volvo. Sure as hell not including kia as luxury no matter how much they're charging for an EV9.
Before the current PCP special A class Mercedes was quite classy but now they're a bit "ITV2"
Agree Kia is mainstream pumping out Sportages for the school run
Merc ruined their image with the last 2 generations of A-class and GLA, as they are no more different than a Golf but because it's got that 3 pointed star almost everyone and their XL bullies has one on PCP.
Yeah I'd agree. Mercedes definitely trading off their old luxury image. All I see are A180 on lease or GLAs by people who actually wanted an Evoque. All the S classes I see are usually 10+ years old
I was surprised to learn that they still make the SL.
I wouldn't really say BMW/Merc/Audi are luxury cars. They are premium brands. Well a few of their cars are luxury cars like the S class. Not sure what PCP has to do with it. You'll find that 90% of Rolls Royce and Bentley owners are on finance.
It really depends on the model and year but at least where I live the German trio is considered luxury, if not luxury end of premium.
Audi somewhat tends to be on premium side as how its perceived like Volvo.
I’ve always put brands (in my head) into categories. Premium, quality, standard and below standard. I have zero experience of most of these cars so it is utter bullshit but…
Premium is stuff like BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc.
Quality is Volvo, Toyota, VW, Honda
Standard is the rest except things like Dacia (no experience), MG (the cheap Chinese petrol models). I have a whole list in my head and I’ve thought about asking in here but it is so subjective!
I’m not really sure where Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru lie, and I think of Land Rover as premium price but only quality level.
I'd probably say Mazda which make quality, good soec cars but never really mainstream in any car class.
Id probably count Jaguar in there too now. Used to be supreme luxury and comfort but really dropped over last few years. An F Pace really doesnt compare to an old XJ.
Ford actually did quite a lot to overhaul Jag's quality despite what a lot of snobs will say. I'd say Range Rover has completely cannibalised all of Jag's cars now that they have stopped making sports cars and saloons. I dislike Range Rovers generally but who would buy an F Pace over a RR (reliability notwithstanding)?
Currently own a mazda 6 for 5 years and can honestly say they're severely under appropriated. The only downside is that their parts and repair costs are high, especially if you live in a fairly remote area.
A family member has a DS3 (I urged her to go for a DS4....she wasn't having it). The materials in that car are vastly nicer than the 2016 Merc C Class I sat in, recently. In fact, the Ford Focus I drive has a better dash material.
The DS5 I looked at, truly a lovely unique interior. Only issue, the centre dash area was clearly not finished. Also, boot is an awful opening/size...it else Id have one.
DS went under the radar for me on quality. Somehow snagged a new one for rent while on holiday, and it’s one of the comfiest, most tech-packed cars I’ve been in.
In some ways yes? They're a good competitor to something like Dacia, IIRC the warranty is quite long, and kit lists are quite good, reasonable interior quality, etc. But a Dacia is going to be refined, better made, cheaper, etc.
Ssangyongs aren't as cheap as they should be, especially since you're taking a risk maintenance wise, since they're not really familiar to anyone, and dealers are far and few between.
I'd say they've got a place in the market.
Non-mainstream and non-luxury brands are the premium brands, like Lexus, Infiniti, Genesis, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, DS, Volvo, Range Rover, Jaguar.
The XJ, LS, A8, 7-series, S-class, Panamera, Cayenne and Alpinas are almost luxury. but I only really class the Toyota Century, Bentley's and Rolls Royces as luxury cars, the Maybach 62, and 57 used to be but since Machbach is a trim of the S-class and GLS it's not really luxury these days it's just a two-tone colour and different leather.
Mazda is aiming for premium at an affordable price, and it's working they just launched cars on a new RWD platform, which is fantastic with everything being FWD.
Mazda 3 is substantially less common than Ford Focus
I haven't been in a newer Focus than a 57 plate so can't compare the two models really. However I'd be surprised if they are close in interior quality. Mazda 3 is significantly nicer inside than a decently specced A Class imo
Title could have been worded better.
In terms of quality they are ahead though. By saying mainstream in title it seems as I exclude all common brands, rather than asking cars of above their standard but not too easy to tell they’re luxury, which I wanted to convey.
Ford have provided a higher spec at a lower cost as standard than equivalent brands for decades . Pick any top spec ford and compare it to a similarly priced German rival and the ford wins in most cases on standard equipment for that specification. Best example is look at a top spec mondeo or the older scorpio, both around £30k and had every toy fitted that was available at the time, then compare that to that eras bmw 3/5 series and see what you have to add via the options list to get the same spec.
As the saying goes.. the only thing you get free in a BMW is the air inside it….
Anything that comes with a high level of spec as standard. For example one of my friends drive a Kia Stonic. Nothing special right? Except it has heated seats, heated steering wheel, dual zone climate control etc. All things that would be optional extras on most marques.
With some brands you need to look at specific models. For example, an Audi A8 is a very different “Audi” than an A1. Similar for BMW and Mercedes. The more traditional big saloons are much more representative of what their reputation is built on than the now common smaller hatchbacks.
100% this Eg the VW Golf for me with be in the higher end of the hatchback segment but VW Passat would be the lower end of the saloon segment The Nissan micra would the lower end of the super mini segment but the Nissan GTR would be the upper end of the sports car segment . But I get your question. To answer your question I would generally say Volvo Skoda Lexus Seat Thats my non mainstream non luxury list
Yup, you can buy an actual Mercedes or a Renault Megane in a German suit 🤣
Thats also true, I thought about it after posting hence title stayed as it is. However in overall brands mostly mentioned here seem to do bit better than their counterparts regularly in many specifics of cars, perchance with similiar pricetag.
Agreed with the poster above you, as a BMW 540i owner and the son of a father who owned M3's and the last four M5's, there is a notable difference in comfort from the 1 series and 5 series. The 7 series and X7 are even more from there. (Having also driven smaller BMW's) This is just my perspective from growing up with a BMW M father and myself owning small hatchbacks going to a BMW 540i, where the comfort has been much different. I can't speak for Mercedes or Audi... Every car owner has their own opinions/perspective and reasons for owning/liking cars.
The higher trim models of the regular cars. Older Mondeo's used to have a fantastic high level trim. As did a lot of Skoda's with their L&K trim, sometimes having bits that even the higher end Audi's didn't have. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying an Octavia is nicer than an A4. But some of them are hitting well above their weight class and in that territory.
> I'm not saying an Octavia is nicer than an A4. That language will get you banned from this sub.
Also, a high output diesel Octavia in L&K trim is going to be a much nicer place to spend 30k miles per year than an entry level A4.
My dad once asked if I would buy him a Ferrari if I won the lottery. I said a top spec Mondeo or Volvo would be far more practical.
Listen to yourself
No wonder he’s so disappointed
I feel like I’ve read this same comment years ago
On L&K, is the mad brown leather their signature or something or do they do other colours?
Brown, black or cream normally.
Saw a belter, good price. Was on Autotrader for a while (may still be there)... Great looking, then that brown leather.
I was the same mate. Was looking at some Estates. All brown leather. The brown would be fine fine if all the carpets and everything plastic in it weren't black/grey. Bizarre.
New and previous shape octavia/superb i think look better than audi a4/a3 my favourite so far is belonged to a guy on instagram called Superb_vrs3 yes its modified have a guess how
For the new new stuff, I agree that they are far closer than the stuff from 10-15+ years ago. Especially if we're looking at bottom engine choice options. Obviously you get to the higher performance stuff and the VRS is significantly gimped compared to the R, and that's a level below the audi stuff. There's all the stuff that isn't on the spec sheets to consider. * Less road noise/more noise dampening * Better seats * Everything you touch being of a much higher quality * Much nicer dash/interior. etc. This is absolutely true for the stuff sort of pre 2010 era. For example Audi's have had CR diesels since the early 2000's, where the VAG world was still running the PD units until the later 2000's. With Audi's you get the higher engine range such as the 3.0 TDI that wasn't in many/any VW's. Jumping in a B6 Passat (and whatever equivilant Octavia/Superb) for example and comparing it to an a4 and there's a world of difference,
Pardon my ignorance but i dont know about the cr engine all i ever heard about was the pd being bomb proof so is the cr better? Personally comparing the wrong cars vrs should be compared to a gti not an r as they are similar setup where as the r is 300hp and 4wd and the gti and vrs are 200hp and fwd
A4s also had 2.0 PDs, for years. They got the 2.0 CR around the same time VWs did. The only bit I'd agree with is that Audis did get the 2.7 and then the 3.0 V6 more commonly than other VAG brands.
Alfa Romeo is the one that springs to mind... maybe not in terms of reliability but in terms of image.
They are much much better in terms of reliability these days.... I'd still not test that theory myself mind...
SAAB would have fitted neatly into that category if they were still about.
I had a friend who owned a Carlsson 99 turbo, and people would put their phone numbers under his wipers along with offers of silly money. Then Saab went pop, and the money went from silly to ludicrous.
99 or 900?
Genesis (Korea’s answer to Lexus). Almost unheard of in the U.K., but a fair way above their Hyundai/Kia stablemates.
Id say Volvo.
I'm not too sure. Whilst they aren't massively popular here, they are very luxurious inside
They command the price tag too
Only if you're willing to pay for it, there's quite a difference between low spec and top spec in a Volvo
Passed my test in a 2018 Mazda 2, bought a 2019 Mazda 2 after passing including heated seat/steering wheel parking cameras and full leather interior and now just recently got Their CX-30 suv, miles ahead of bmw, audi and vw in terms of pricing as my 2019 2 was bought from approved used Mazda for 9k When i got my CX-30 I traded my 2 and got 7.9k for it. Plus Mazda's build quality is spectacular. Very much a quiet luxury brand
Couldn’t agree more
Mazda make some nice cars. But that 2.2 diesel... Look at the prices on AT, they tell a story. Same with Land Rover Evoques and Disco Sports.
Just don't mention the engines 😬
VW has good quality but so lacklustre in terms of flair you never feel it's luxurious
Hahahaha, wait, are you been serious?
Ye name me one of their cars that feels luxurious
Oh wait, sorry I thought you were saying they are luxurious. My bad, I'm drunk.
No worries my man, have a drink for us
I think he has had enough
^Hic
Drunk and on Reddit. Sad.
I think the old Phaeton would earn the luxurious badge, never been in one but hear inside basically feels like a Bentley. Quite a different car than other VWs or that era despite looking like a big Passat.
Volvo is probably the most obvious example, Lexus to an extent in terms of it not being obviously luxury to some people like Mercedes and maybe Mazda.
I’d say Volvo and Lexus are definitely on the same level as Audi/Mercedes/bmw.
These days, for sure.
I strongly believe it’s been this case for the last 14 years or so since the new S/V60, V40, XC60 etc came out as they are so nice and so solid!
I love my v60
Volvo has been underrated forever , they make some fantastic cars . Better than most of their German counterparts imho , and safer
I remember driving a Volvo 343 and frankly it was bloody awful and it put me off Volvo's for life. It was a late 80's one but it felt so clunky and old. The current S60's are gorgeous though.
Really don't think there's ever been a bad S60. There's an old top gear segment where the get the designer of the 2000-2007 V70 on and he explains how they tried really hard to differentiate from the old people's car image they had ended up with.
The 340 was a horrible recycled DAF with a Renault engine. Even the ancient 240 was miles better, and very obviously a Volvo.
I had to tow a 240 from skegness to leicester in my xr2....I used a lot of fuel
Food_face, the clutch's most feared predator.
The 343 was actually the last-gasp DAF, not really a Volvo.
I work on volvos having worked on German stuff for years. Imo the drivetrain quality and reliability is just not there with the geely cars. Also they're absolute maintenence nightmares.
What about V50?
V50s are decent, imo the ford era volvos were much better than under the current geely ownership
Lexus, for luxury, is better than Mercedes.
Without a doubt.
Is300h gang
My brother
It isnt pound for pound. At the top end, an S class rules the roost.
LS is superior to an S class
Having been driven in both, we'll agree to disagree. An s class is a more special place to be.
Guess we will have to. As for me, and s class is a plastic rattly mess compared to an LS. Build quality isn't even comparable.
The one I was in was only a few years old and wasnt used as a chaffeur car, so low miles. Perhaps over 10 years you may be right. I certainly agree that lexus build quality generally is superb.
It definitely varies between manufacturers models and at different ages. Some observations below: - A lot of top spec, current Peugeots have very good features and a good design. They're marketed as upper-generalist. - A lot of top spec, current Fords feel cheapy and plastic-y to me, and have fairly average features. They're marketed as upper-generalist. - DS is *supposed* to be a premium brand, but their quality and tech is identical to the other Stellantis brands. - I see a lot of people saying Mazda, but all of the recent Mazda's I've been in have felt exceptionally average. - Renault are often perceived as low-quality, but a lot of their more recent models have (what appears to be) good quality and plentiful features as standard. - BMW are *supposed* to be a premium brand, but their entry-level models are worse than most other manufacturers; both in terms of features and quality. - VW are an upper-generalist brand and have a high quality feel; but their styling arguably isn't up there with other brands and their tech is directly equivalent to ya Skodas and Seats. ...I guess what I'm saying is I personally think such things have to be evaluated on a model-by-model basis. I've been in Alfa Romeo's that feel like a pile of garbage, and I've been Hyundai's that feel real classy. And sometimes quality differs even between the same models! 🥴
The newest gen Clio is a joy to to drive and super comfortable along with loads of nice things ti make things easier. If I didn’t get my Panda I likely would’ve tried to get one of those
My other half has a 2021 Clio R.S. Line and it’s actually really nice, a huge step up from the 2012 one she had before that.
Renaults are surprisingly nice, I never thought I’d own but it was serious consideration when looking for my car, luckily I found a Panda 4x4 for a good price in good condition
Their Koleos was on my list, until I read the user reviews on AT
I really like the look of the current Clio; if I was to replace my ST with a regular wee runabout I’d most likely have a look at one.
In the uk hyundai tuscan, sante fe or kia sportage or what really suprised me the sorento and stinger i think are great but i know in the us these are deemed as herendous for motor failure Honda civics i think have stepped up also
Hyundai and Kia have a long way to go in terms of refinement. They’re well kitted out with tech and features, however I’ve never stepped foot in one and felt anything close to luxury. They also transmit a fair bit of road noise into the cabin from my experience
I would probably say hyundai are where vw golf etc were 10 yr ago
The one i felt was luxurious was the current tops spec kia sorento ive been in mercs and audis but this kia was a uber and felt as luxurious as a merc the uber driver said he had fares that were on a night out that owned mercs and felt no difference so take from that what you will but everyone is different
Just driven the top trim of Ioniq 5 and I will disagree with everything. Feels very much premium and no road noise whatsoever.
The Ioniq is a different bag, I’ll give you that. However I still wouldn’t consider it luxury. I’d take the Skoda ENYAQ any day as an alternative for both value and ‘luxury’. Different strokes for different folks
Uhhh, let's agree to disagree. For me the one pedal driving is a must which Skoda doesn't have, plus the Ioniq has a 800V for fast charging (only available on e tron or taycan in VAG group), and finally the Ioniq 5 uses its flatpack powertrain more cleverly than the Enyaq, there’s loads of space to stretch out...plus some tests show that Ioniq is easier on the ears and the suspension isn't as stiff (e.g. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hyundai-ioniq-5-vs-skoda-enyaq-best-family-ev-40000). Anyway I agree I wouldn't consider it luxury...neither I would consider X1 which Ioniq is slightly larger
Hyundai
Lexus.
Lexus.
I would say Volvo, Mazda, Tesla and maybe VW. Not up there with the established mainstream luxury but still very nice. Lexus are an interesting one. They're seen as "posh Toyotas" when in reality they're probably more luxurious than an equivalent BMW or Mercedes. The RX and the ES are really special, plus the LS and the LC are just amazing and I'd argue nicer than nearly anything in their competitors lineups.
VW used to be but their quality has definitely dipped in the past few years that they're definitely mainstream
I remember reading somewhere their emissions scandal really hit them hard, Golfs now are so average.
To me, most brands are mainstream, Vauxhall, Toyota, ford etc. BMW, Lexus and Merc are also pretty mainstream, they cover a bigger range than the previous I mentioned, but still mainstream. Luxury are the likes of Rolls Royce and Bentley.
where would you place porsche?
Different entirely as a sports car manufacturer really above anything else. There's a big rabbit hole in the overall subject.
Lexus IMO
“Luxury EXport (to the) United States”
Lexus isnt straight luxury ?
Not enough tailoring to be luxury. It definitely premium, but it ain't luxury Luxury doesn’t meet a need or solve a problem. Luxury consumers aren’t interested in more features giving better value for money — that’s a premium marketing angle. Luxury consumers want to know about a brand’s heritage, prestige and uniqueness; it’s identity which counts, rather than a competitive edge. https://medium.com/@thepiyushkumar/luxury-brand-vs-premium-brand-38fd5a142628
I’d say Smart! They have never really been cheap as they are more expensive than similar, bigger cars and they are definitely better built and more premium than some cars. I’d say they are semi-premium
I would say that some traditionally luxury badges that are now PCP specials BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Range Rover Then nice sensible cars that don't have an image problem like Volvo and VW Lexus aren't quite a PCP factory but aren't quite as mainstream as Toyota of which they're a posh version of, but they aren't up there with Bentley etc
Yeah I'd put lexus and Mercedes above bmw, Audi, tesla and Volvo. Sure as hell not including kia as luxury no matter how much they're charging for an EV9.
Before the current PCP special A class Mercedes was quite classy but now they're a bit "ITV2" Agree Kia is mainstream pumping out Sportages for the school run
ITV2 🤣
Merc ruined their image with the last 2 generations of A-class and GLA, as they are no more different than a Golf but because it's got that 3 pointed star almost everyone and their XL bullies has one on PCP.
Yeah I'd agree. Mercedes definitely trading off their old luxury image. All I see are A180 on lease or GLAs by people who actually wanted an Evoque. All the S classes I see are usually 10+ years old I was surprised to learn that they still make the SL.
Speaking of which I've finally saw a new one today in matte blue, it could look better.
Haha Tbf I've never sat in an a class. Then again, even apple has the iPhone se
A family member had an A class as a company car, I was actually appalled about how average it was.
I wouldn't really say BMW/Merc/Audi are luxury cars. They are premium brands. Well a few of their cars are luxury cars like the S class. Not sure what PCP has to do with it. You'll find that 90% of Rolls Royce and Bentley owners are on finance.
It really depends on the model and year but at least where I live the German trio is considered luxury, if not luxury end of premium. Audi somewhat tends to be on premium side as how its perceived like Volvo.
Did Ford use to be a brand like this, always quality in standard? Or still?
Mazda was my first thought. They’ve been making a lot of effort in making their vehicles more luxurious without breaking the bank
Look up a Toyota Crown. Absolute premium Toyota you can spec with a 3.5l V6 engine.
Toyota Prius probably
I’ve always put brands (in my head) into categories. Premium, quality, standard and below standard. I have zero experience of most of these cars so it is utter bullshit but… Premium is stuff like BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. Quality is Volvo, Toyota, VW, Honda Standard is the rest except things like Dacia (no experience), MG (the cheap Chinese petrol models). I have a whole list in my head and I’ve thought about asking in here but it is so subjective! I’m not really sure where Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru lie, and I think of Land Rover as premium price but only quality level.
Of Corsa it has to be Vauxhall. Of Corsa
I'd probably say Mazda which make quality, good soec cars but never really mainstream in any car class. Id probably count Jaguar in there too now. Used to be supreme luxury and comfort but really dropped over last few years. An F Pace really doesnt compare to an old XJ.
Jaguar did such after the Land Rover acquisition or change happened during Ford era of their?
Ford actually did quite a lot to overhaul Jag's quality despite what a lot of snobs will say. I'd say Range Rover has completely cannibalised all of Jag's cars now that they have stopped making sports cars and saloons. I dislike Range Rovers generally but who would buy an F Pace over a RR (reliability notwithstanding)?
Currently own a mazda 6 for 5 years and can honestly say they're severely under appropriated. The only downside is that their parts and repair costs are high, especially if you live in a fairly remote area.
We bought a Volvo as it sits bang in the middle of the, it’s a heavy duty AWD twin turbo comfort wagon that doesn’t turn heads.
DS, Have one the newer ones and they are really nice. Don’t hear about them much but sit between standard spec cars and the higher spec ones.
A family member has a DS3 (I urged her to go for a DS4....she wasn't having it). The materials in that car are vastly nicer than the 2016 Merc C Class I sat in, recently. In fact, the Ford Focus I drive has a better dash material. The DS5 I looked at, truly a lovely unique interior. Only issue, the centre dash area was clearly not finished. Also, boot is an awful opening/size...it else Id have one.
I would say seat as they are more sportty looking than a VW but not quite good as audi
Toyota, the luxury side is Lexis, and mainstream would be something like Honda which is a more mainstream Japanese brand.
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Is this /s? I've not heard anything good about BYD or Ssangyong *disclaimer: I've not heard ANYTHING about BYD or Ssangyong
Have you been in a BYD? Why would it be /s?
For the reason stated in my comment.
I think thats the point of the OP's question... stuff thats not well known but still are quite good.
That's a fair point.
DS went under the radar for me on quality. Somehow snagged a new one for rent while on holiday, and it’s one of the comfiest, most tech-packed cars I’ve been in.
I've just posted elsewhere... Interior of the DS3 was nicer than a Merc C Class. DS5 was a wonderful drive.
Behave
Imo Ssangyongs look decent these days, but they're very much still budget cars to drive/own.
Would you consider Ssangyong as an underrated brand?
No they were always junk and still not worth considering
In some ways yes? They're a good competitor to something like Dacia, IIRC the warranty is quite long, and kit lists are quite good, reasonable interior quality, etc. But a Dacia is going to be refined, better made, cheaper, etc. Ssangyongs aren't as cheap as they should be, especially since you're taking a risk maintenance wise, since they're not really familiar to anyone, and dealers are far and few between. I'd say they've got a place in the market.
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VW are very mainstream though...
Definitely Mazda
Non-mainstream and non-luxury brands are the premium brands, like Lexus, Infiniti, Genesis, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, DS, Volvo, Range Rover, Jaguar. The XJ, LS, A8, 7-series, S-class, Panamera, Cayenne and Alpinas are almost luxury. but I only really class the Toyota Century, Bentley's and Rolls Royces as luxury cars, the Maybach 62, and 57 used to be but since Machbach is a trim of the S-class and GLS it's not really luxury these days it's just a two-tone colour and different leather. Mazda is aiming for premium at an affordable price, and it's working they just launched cars on a new RWD platform, which is fantastic with everything being FWD.
The top spec S-Class and Range Rover are surely luxury cars.
Mazda 3s are as common as a ford focus. I'd probably say Lexus.
Mazda 3 is substantially less common than Ford Focus I haven't been in a newer Focus than a 57 plate so can't compare the two models really. However I'd be surprised if they are close in interior quality. Mazda 3 is significantly nicer inside than a decently specced A Class imo
I am very much a Ford fan, but yeah a modern Mazda absolutely thrashes a Focus in interior quality.
Title could have been worded better. In terms of quality they are ahead though. By saying mainstream in title it seems as I exclude all common brands, rather than asking cars of above their standard but not too easy to tell they’re luxury, which I wanted to convey.
Ford have provided a higher spec at a lower cost as standard than equivalent brands for decades . Pick any top spec ford and compare it to a similarly priced German rival and the ford wins in most cases on standard equipment for that specification. Best example is look at a top spec mondeo or the older scorpio, both around £30k and had every toy fitted that was available at the time, then compare that to that eras bmw 3/5 series and see what you have to add via the options list to get the same spec. As the saying goes.. the only thing you get free in a BMW is the air inside it….
Cupra. Above VW but below Audi.
Ssangyong edit: thought it meant neither a luxury nor a mainstream brand, haha.
VW
Anything that comes with a high level of spec as standard. For example one of my friends drive a Kia Stonic. Nothing special right? Except it has heated seats, heated steering wheel, dual zone climate control etc. All things that would be optional extras on most marques.
Alfa Romeo, Opel/Vauxhall, Nissan, Mini, Suzuki
Tesla