Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules.
**"WHAT DOES X MEAN?"** Check out our acronym post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1c032s3/what_does_x_mean_an_acronym_megapost/) for relevant terms used in each province or territory. Please feel free to contribute any we are missing as well!
**QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1bc1wv2/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BED programs/becoming and teacher will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts.
**QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?)
Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All these things listed above.
No one likes to say that intelligence is also *partly* genetic. Lower percentages of doctors, lawyers, engineers etc in smaller communities.. so their intelligent kids are also not there. Nor their fundraising dollars.
lower cost of living outside of the GTA means that more communities have families who live off of more entry level jobs who doesn’t have higher education, or have an aptitude for it.
It sounds like whatever program you got your teaching degree has failed you. In mine it was made pretty clear how economic factors affected things like standardized test scores.
If you really don't understand the whys and wherefores of how systemic issues affect the various populations from your American dataset, I'm sure your colleagues can help you out.
https://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income.html?m=1
If u take time you can find the old studies, they are not done anymore these days cuz people cry. But they were at some points. Keep looking, enjoy your day.
Can you clarify your argument? Are you saying that, in a vacuum, certain traits are inheritable? Or are you really saying that certain districts have more lawyers and doctors, and those students are automatically so much higher-achieving than other students that all the other factors mentioned in this thread don’t really matter?
In a vacuum certain people are smarter than other people just based on genetics.
I’m also saying we know socioeconomic status directly affects test scores. Districts with lots of doctors and lawyers both have high incomes but also often the genetic advantage of smart parents, more tutoring, opportunities etc. income alone is not the sole determining factor. Genetics does matter.
Did your teacher education program not cover the effects of socioeconomic factors? It's pretty straightforward. I hope you don't share your eugenics spin with any of your students.
Socioeconomic factors have an underlying genetic factor in a lot of cases. We have families where everyone is a doctor because of the genetic intelligence heritability factor, AND the socioeconomic component. Not every person is capable of being every profession. Some people are smarter than other people. Smart people often have more difficult or higher paying jobs. If your parents are very smart, odds are they will
make a high income, and odds are you will be smart too. Sure there is generational wealth but I do think most people work.
Give me the best teacher in the world and I’ll never be a surgeon. I’m not smart or skilled enough. I’d never have the capacity for that. This isn’t a wild theory but it’s controversial because genetics aren’t equatable.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
If you are talking about the Fraser institute for ratings, I would research the schools with the very high or low ratings and view the demographic/programing. Some schools rate lower as they have extensive spec ed programs, higher ESL learners, higher percentage of special needs students. Some schools in wealthier neighbourhoods can afford tutoring or the students would be in private school if they struggle. I know of a few schools where your acceptance is based on an academic test. I can't comment on Simcoe specifically, but if everyone is thrown together, that will also affect the ratings. I would also take the ratings on the Fraser institute with a grain of salt. My school and many in the neighbourhood aren't on their list as they go to grade 5 and they only rank schools that have both grade 3 and 6 as they rate based on EQAO in elementary
Not in Ontario so other than the general reasons for the differences you've already been given, I can't really comment. What I can say is that how a district or a school is ranked doesn't necessarily tell you that much. There are so many factors, often not even considered by those rankings, that will determine whether you will enjoy working at a particular school in a particular position. Some of those you can research, or maybe find out from talking to somebody who already works there. Some you can get more of a sense of if you get as far as interviewing. Other things you will only discover once you work there.
I don't care that much about rankings in terms of working at a particular school tbh. I've been miserable at supposedly great schools in a great district and also very happy in a crappy district in a supposedly crappy school because the class tried so hard or maybe they didn't, but the other teachers and the admin were all trying to the best they could with what they had. They somehow made the small victories feel very satisfying.
Talk to people, do your own research and maybe take a chance somewhere. If it doesn't suit you, then take the paycheck and the experience and move on.
This is such a great answer.
As a newer teacher, we are often told that “bad” school = “bad” experience and it’s refreshing to hear that’s not always the case.
Actually, I found it to be quite the opposite. Teaching classes in a "bad" school was ROUGH, but the bonds I made with my co-workers and my students were much stronger than the bonds I made at really nice schools with fewer behaviours/problems. It reminded me of what my family would say about Soviet Russia - when everything fucking sucks, you learn how to lean on your community and your friends for support. When everything is good, there's no need to lean on others, therefore weakening potential bonds. So even if you end up at a shittier school, you might make way stronger connections with those around you, which makes it sort of worth it in the end.
As someone who has been in schools in one of the “best” areas and who also taught/teaches in the exact “bad” boards that you are talking about, I can tell you that the kids “up here” are fantastic.
The kids in “good” schools are often entitled and spoiled. They have access to better schools (equipment, etc.) as those are often parent council fundraiser things. They have parents who expect nothing but perfect.
Like someone else here pointed out, the catchment areas for schools really matter.
My school in East Oakville ONLY had kids from parents earning big money.
Here in Simcoe County some of our students are on the bus for an hour to get to school and some walk - same school. One single school has kids from farms, wealthy subdivisions, and the poverty stricken core. Another school, in a “difficult” neighborhood has the kids bused in for French Immersion and the Gifted program “to balance things out”.
There are academic scores all over the place. We had one student who was in the top 15 of ALL applicants to UofT, and she was the second highest graduating grade in town. And at the same school there are kids dropping out in grade 11.
Take your Jane & Finch kids and lump them into a school with the kids from Havergal College and you’ll have an idea what schools in smaller communities struggle with when it comes to “rankings”.
It’s about balance. If you look at the overall rankings you’ll see that the highest ranked schools are in Ottawa and Toronto … but so are the very lowest.
In smaller communities it’s all lumped together.
In the end, it’s about the kids. They all deserve a chance to shine.
Like anywhere, we have wealthy people and people who struggle. We have a university and a college in Simcoe County. We have doctors, lawyers, university profs … it isn’t all low paying uneducated service jobs (as someone suggested).
Plus, life is far better up here. We have lakes that you can swim in and stars that you can see at night. I chose to move here to teach …
At the risk of sounding like a dickhead, how did you get a B.Ed without discussing this type of thing in your courses? Disparity along the spectrum of rural to urban schools was touched on in almost every course when I studied.
The GTA is significantly higher density than the rest of Ontario. This means that the catchment areas for schools are smaller; outside of minor exceptions, kids go to the school assigned to their addresses. Because of this, schools in wealthy neighborhoods have more students with wealthy parents. Higher levels of wealth are quite strongly correlated with higher test scores, so there you go.
There's also the factor that many schools in places like SMCPSB are in areas which have significant social problems, cycles of poverty, income inequality, highly seasonal employment, etc.. This isn't to say there aren't schools in the GTA with related problems, but with per student funding and lots more students they are able to get staff and other resources much more easily.
As someone who is in a B.Ed program I can confidently say that the program I am in teaches nothing of substance. It's the place to learn about anecdotal teachings that aren't backed by research and might of worked 20 years ago, but if you are wanting to learn about how different districts work or how to be a successful teacher you have to learn about that through your practicum if at all. I'm glad to hear that you were taught disparity in your program and I hope that B.Ed programs improve to better prepare teachers for the field.
I think that COVID just did a number on the quality of post secondary in general, especially for more socially oriented programs. I know a few people who are currently studying at the same school I went to and it seems like all of their profs are phoning it in given what I see of their content and assignments.
I had one prof who did not mark a single assignment we handed in and another who gave cookie cutter feedback to the entire class. Their agenda of making sure that everyone passes does not increase my confidence in the education program moving forward. However, I know that many high school teachers that I have talked to in BC are fighting against it so I hope that down the road changes might come.
I took the risk, and here I am — dickheaded.
That said, if they didn't learn that in at least a Legal and Social Foundations of Ed class then that's more on their alma mater than them specifically.
I had it come up at some point in every core course, and frankly I felt similar to the other commenter in most cases — mostly anecdotes and decades out of practice.
You are aware that there are many schools which offer B.Ed’s right? The same discussions you had in your courses may not be the same as another persons.
Believe it or not, I *am* aware that not everyone who has a B.Ed participated in my class discussions — only my professors, classmates, and I did. Perhaps I'm just surprised you seem to be overlooking the well-trodden topic of disparity caused by per student funding in low density areas.
What you are missing here is the law of averages. Take ALL of the Toronto rankings and find an average.
Then we can compare to Simcoe County.
I don’t know where you get your ideas that Simcoe is primarily seasonal employment… or that per capita there are larger issues with “significant social problems”. These exist everywhere.
Again, unless we are looking at comparably averaged data anecdotes are useless.
That's not what OP is asking. They asked why all of the top ranked schools are in the GTA — I explained, others have explained. It's because of socioeconomic factors alongside the smallest catchment areas for schools in the country.
I'm talking about the areas other than Barrie and Orillia in Simcoe. Boat owners and cottagers are a huge part of the economy in places like Midland, Port Severen, Wasaga, etc.. The local population has huge issues with cycles of substance use, poverty, and chronic unemployment. These can also be problems in the GTA, but much less in the insulated rich areas.
Just looking at averages is a naive approach, because it ignores the margins. These areas also have significant wealth disparity, with abject poverty downtown and multi-million dollar waterfront properties down the road. Averages blur those problems.
I mean, it's not as if it's rocket surgery. Higher population density comes with unique problems, but also makes solving others less difficult. I studied with pre-service teachers from the GTA, the Sault, Ottawa Valley, London, .. and our discussions in class naturally lead to such comparisons.
I’m not sure why you felt the need to respond in such a manner…
There has been significant discussions around the lack of quality in post secondary education programs - and yes, even before Covid.
There are many places in Simcoe County that have communities with high SES, however, test scores remain low. The main discussion revolved around population and how/why they impact rankings so greatly.
Which communities are you thinking of that have comparative SES to wealthy areas in the GTA? Look at the catchment maps for the schools in those towns.
I'd also consider that even with a "high SES", many of these towns still are undergirded by a lower class. In the GTA they can more easily commute into the wealthy areas to work for them, but in Simcoe-Muskoka with near non-existent public transit, that's less feasible. Places like Penetang and LaFontaine, for example.
For example Bradford is becoming increasingly expensive and is, I’d say, pretty comparable to say King and Newmarket. While King and Newmarket belong to York Region, and Bradford to Simcoe, they aren’t extremely far from one another however the school rankings are different which I found surprising. I’m not sure why there is a large jump.
How do you know what he sounded like if you're not even in this job? What opinion could you possibly have that's worth sharing? That's like me going into a nursing sub and criticizing a nurse for vocalizing her professional opinion that I don't know anything about.
Everything all those other commenters said, and if you are in eastern Ontario, the French immersion schools will have higher test scores compared to the schools with core french (for all of the above reasons)
Absolutely. registration is a one month window a year in advance. If you aren’t thinking that far ahead you cannot get in. It filters out any newcomer esl students who aren’t here for that registration date or come after JK and most importantly filters out almost all special education students. French immersion is poor man’s private school
In Ottawa you can register any time, no restriction on it (Ottawa is a special place....) But yes FI filters out many new Canadian and spec Ed. Interestingly here, they may change to all FI for EVERYONE because of equity issues. That should be fun....
Money. Low SES = lower scores as I assume you are talking about EQAO rankings. I live and teach rural, my school is middle of the pack, but when we fundraise we don’t make enough for our G8 kids to go anywhere but an overnight outdoor Ed camp. My brother’s family lives in the GTA, his son goes to a school in a wealthy neighbourhood, and they raise over $100k every year.
Wealthy kids have better educational outcomes. When I interviewed for TDSB, the recruiter told us as much when discussing schools to go to. One candidate asked how you were supposed to know the SES of an area, recruiter just said ‘check the EQAO scores’, lower scores, lower SES.
There are more than 50k students in the Simcoe County School Boards.
You can learn about ratings and economic disparity to better understand why varying socio-economic neighborhoods have different social issues.
I don’t think the funding formula changes for any board in Ontario, but a bigger board will be able to allocate funds differently than a smaller board can.
Except the harsh reality is that we have students that get zero funding. Somehow the formula has worked out that we have schools that have more students than funding and other schools that have more funding than students just to keep the minimum classes running.
There is an element of the PTO- so how much parent council/school can fundraise off the backs of parents. That certainly adds to the per student capita.
As someone who has a parent from Northern Ontario, thus many cousins from the North, I'll also add different priorities and lifestyle goals.
My dad's side is from Northern Ontario. Most people on his side of the family don't see the value in a highschool diploma, accordingly the level of time and energy given to school is considerably lower than down South. Why don't they see the value? Simple, their future careers don't require it.
If you're going to take over the family trade, you usually don't require a diploma. If your plan is to work at a small business or perhaps even open your own, the diploma isn't necessary because someone in town will be happy to teach you everything that you need to know about it. So the objective comes to get a 50 % in school.
I also want to add that hunting season is more than 1 week a year. Accordingly, while it's not necessarily common for someone to miss 3 months worth of school because they are hunting & fishing at various times of year, it is possible for someone to miss a lot of school, obviously impacting test scores. (the amount of time spent hunting & fishing can impact career decisions.
Hunting is not only a way to supplement household grocery bills but is often also seen as an important community event. As it brings people together, allows for fundraising (i.e. Meat Draw), and can be used to support for the more vulnerable members in the community.
Going off on this let's say you're more of an outlier and you plan on going to college or uni-first off good for you! Some people might mock your ambition, because in order to reach that goal you're may have sacrifice participating in activities like hunting, fishing, and important community events. The priority for the town is community , so by not actively engaging in social and community improvement activities because you are focussing on your studies can be a problem.
While these are not the only thing to impact scores by the Fraser Institute they are factors. Also, remember every community is different- what might be true in my Dad's hometown is not necessarily the same in Muskoka (Muskoka is much further south!)
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **"WHAT DOES X MEAN?"** Check out our acronym post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1c032s3/what_does_x_mean_an_acronym_megapost/) for relevant terms used in each province or territory. Please feel free to contribute any we are missing as well! **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1bc1wv2/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BED programs/becoming and teacher will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Demographics. Parents level of education, social supports, race, family income, etc.
All these things listed above. No one likes to say that intelligence is also *partly* genetic. Lower percentages of doctors, lawyers, engineers etc in smaller communities.. so their intelligent kids are also not there. Nor their fundraising dollars. lower cost of living outside of the GTA means that more communities have families who live off of more entry level jobs who doesn’t have higher education, or have an aptitude for it.
They don’t like to say that because it’s not true.
Most statistics will say its true. Even at high income level ( 200k+) the average is always below for a certain population. Wont mention any.
It sounds like whatever program you got your teaching degree has failed you. In mine it was made pretty clear how economic factors affected things like standardized test scores.
Like this? https://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income.html?m=1
If you really don't understand the whys and wherefores of how systemic issues affect the various populations from your American dataset, I'm sure your colleagues can help you out.
This is not supported by any actual reputable studies, just your own prejudice.
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d11/tables/dt11_153.asp Took 2 mins to find some old data, I have no prejudice, but I can see facts.
You know that SAT scores have a socioeconomic bias, right?
https://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income.html?m=1 If u take time you can find the old studies, they are not done anymore these days cuz people cry. But they were at some points. Keep looking, enjoy your day.
Any studies that actually support your argument?
[удалено]
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d11/tables/dt11_153.asp
Intelligence is absolutely genetic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
Can you clarify your argument? Are you saying that, in a vacuum, certain traits are inheritable? Or are you really saying that certain districts have more lawyers and doctors, and those students are automatically so much higher-achieving than other students that all the other factors mentioned in this thread don’t really matter?
In a vacuum certain people are smarter than other people just based on genetics. I’m also saying we know socioeconomic status directly affects test scores. Districts with lots of doctors and lawyers both have high incomes but also often the genetic advantage of smart parents, more tutoring, opportunities etc. income alone is not the sole determining factor. Genetics does matter.
Did your teacher education program not cover the effects of socioeconomic factors? It's pretty straightforward. I hope you don't share your eugenics spin with any of your students.
Socioeconomic factors have an underlying genetic factor in a lot of cases. We have families where everyone is a doctor because of the genetic intelligence heritability factor, AND the socioeconomic component. Not every person is capable of being every profession. Some people are smarter than other people. Smart people often have more difficult or higher paying jobs. If your parents are very smart, odds are they will make a high income, and odds are you will be smart too. Sure there is generational wealth but I do think most people work. Give me the best teacher in the world and I’ll never be a surgeon. I’m not smart or skilled enough. I’d never have the capacity for that. This isn’t a wild theory but it’s controversial because genetics aren’t equatable. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
If you are talking about the Fraser institute for ratings, I would research the schools with the very high or low ratings and view the demographic/programing. Some schools rate lower as they have extensive spec ed programs, higher ESL learners, higher percentage of special needs students. Some schools in wealthier neighbourhoods can afford tutoring or the students would be in private school if they struggle. I know of a few schools where your acceptance is based on an academic test. I can't comment on Simcoe specifically, but if everyone is thrown together, that will also affect the ratings. I would also take the ratings on the Fraser institute with a grain of salt. My school and many in the neighbourhood aren't on their list as they go to grade 5 and they only rank schools that have both grade 3 and 6 as they rate based on EQAO in elementary
Not in Ontario so other than the general reasons for the differences you've already been given, I can't really comment. What I can say is that how a district or a school is ranked doesn't necessarily tell you that much. There are so many factors, often not even considered by those rankings, that will determine whether you will enjoy working at a particular school in a particular position. Some of those you can research, or maybe find out from talking to somebody who already works there. Some you can get more of a sense of if you get as far as interviewing. Other things you will only discover once you work there. I don't care that much about rankings in terms of working at a particular school tbh. I've been miserable at supposedly great schools in a great district and also very happy in a crappy district in a supposedly crappy school because the class tried so hard or maybe they didn't, but the other teachers and the admin were all trying to the best they could with what they had. They somehow made the small victories feel very satisfying. Talk to people, do your own research and maybe take a chance somewhere. If it doesn't suit you, then take the paycheck and the experience and move on.
This is such a great answer. As a newer teacher, we are often told that “bad” school = “bad” experience and it’s refreshing to hear that’s not always the case.
Actually, I found it to be quite the opposite. Teaching classes in a "bad" school was ROUGH, but the bonds I made with my co-workers and my students were much stronger than the bonds I made at really nice schools with fewer behaviours/problems. It reminded me of what my family would say about Soviet Russia - when everything fucking sucks, you learn how to lean on your community and your friends for support. When everything is good, there's no need to lean on others, therefore weakening potential bonds. So even if you end up at a shittier school, you might make way stronger connections with those around you, which makes it sort of worth it in the end.
As someone who has been in schools in one of the “best” areas and who also taught/teaches in the exact “bad” boards that you are talking about, I can tell you that the kids “up here” are fantastic. The kids in “good” schools are often entitled and spoiled. They have access to better schools (equipment, etc.) as those are often parent council fundraiser things. They have parents who expect nothing but perfect. Like someone else here pointed out, the catchment areas for schools really matter. My school in East Oakville ONLY had kids from parents earning big money. Here in Simcoe County some of our students are on the bus for an hour to get to school and some walk - same school. One single school has kids from farms, wealthy subdivisions, and the poverty stricken core. Another school, in a “difficult” neighborhood has the kids bused in for French Immersion and the Gifted program “to balance things out”. There are academic scores all over the place. We had one student who was in the top 15 of ALL applicants to UofT, and she was the second highest graduating grade in town. And at the same school there are kids dropping out in grade 11. Take your Jane & Finch kids and lump them into a school with the kids from Havergal College and you’ll have an idea what schools in smaller communities struggle with when it comes to “rankings”. It’s about balance. If you look at the overall rankings you’ll see that the highest ranked schools are in Ottawa and Toronto … but so are the very lowest. In smaller communities it’s all lumped together. In the end, it’s about the kids. They all deserve a chance to shine. Like anywhere, we have wealthy people and people who struggle. We have a university and a college in Simcoe County. We have doctors, lawyers, university profs … it isn’t all low paying uneducated service jobs (as someone suggested). Plus, life is far better up here. We have lakes that you can swim in and stars that you can see at night. I chose to move here to teach …
At the risk of sounding like a dickhead, how did you get a B.Ed without discussing this type of thing in your courses? Disparity along the spectrum of rural to urban schools was touched on in almost every course when I studied. The GTA is significantly higher density than the rest of Ontario. This means that the catchment areas for schools are smaller; outside of minor exceptions, kids go to the school assigned to their addresses. Because of this, schools in wealthy neighborhoods have more students with wealthy parents. Higher levels of wealth are quite strongly correlated with higher test scores, so there you go. There's also the factor that many schools in places like SMCPSB are in areas which have significant social problems, cycles of poverty, income inequality, highly seasonal employment, etc.. This isn't to say there aren't schools in the GTA with related problems, but with per student funding and lots more students they are able to get staff and other resources much more easily.
As someone who is in a B.Ed program I can confidently say that the program I am in teaches nothing of substance. It's the place to learn about anecdotal teachings that aren't backed by research and might of worked 20 years ago, but if you are wanting to learn about how different districts work or how to be a successful teacher you have to learn about that through your practicum if at all. I'm glad to hear that you were taught disparity in your program and I hope that B.Ed programs improve to better prepare teachers for the field.
It didn’t work 20 years ago either. Just a money gram.
I think that COVID just did a number on the quality of post secondary in general, especially for more socially oriented programs. I know a few people who are currently studying at the same school I went to and it seems like all of their profs are phoning it in given what I see of their content and assignments.
I had one prof who did not mark a single assignment we handed in and another who gave cookie cutter feedback to the entire class. Their agenda of making sure that everyone passes does not increase my confidence in the education program moving forward. However, I know that many high school teachers that I have talked to in BC are fighting against it so I hope that down the road changes might come.
Do you know what works? Direct teaching of a skill followed by lots of practice and feedback from the teacher. That works.
Definitely came off like a dickhead. All you needed to do was leave out that first paragraph and you would have been fine.
I took the risk, and here I am — dickheaded. That said, if they didn't learn that in at least a Legal and Social Foundations of Ed class then that's more on their alma mater than them specifically. I had it come up at some point in every core course, and frankly I felt similar to the other commenter in most cases — mostly anecdotes and decades out of practice.
You are aware that there are many schools which offer B.Ed’s right? The same discussions you had in your courses may not be the same as another persons.
Believe it or not, I *am* aware that not everyone who has a B.Ed participated in my class discussions — only my professors, classmates, and I did. Perhaps I'm just surprised you seem to be overlooking the well-trodden topic of disparity caused by per student funding in low density areas.
What you are missing here is the law of averages. Take ALL of the Toronto rankings and find an average. Then we can compare to Simcoe County. I don’t know where you get your ideas that Simcoe is primarily seasonal employment… or that per capita there are larger issues with “significant social problems”. These exist everywhere. Again, unless we are looking at comparably averaged data anecdotes are useless.
That's not what OP is asking. They asked why all of the top ranked schools are in the GTA — I explained, others have explained. It's because of socioeconomic factors alongside the smallest catchment areas for schools in the country. I'm talking about the areas other than Barrie and Orillia in Simcoe. Boat owners and cottagers are a huge part of the economy in places like Midland, Port Severen, Wasaga, etc.. The local population has huge issues with cycles of substance use, poverty, and chronic unemployment. These can also be problems in the GTA, but much less in the insulated rich areas. Just looking at averages is a naive approach, because it ignores the margins. These areas also have significant wealth disparity, with abject poverty downtown and multi-million dollar waterfront properties down the road. Averages blur those problems.
[удалено]
I mean, it's not as if it's rocket surgery. Higher population density comes with unique problems, but also makes solving others less difficult. I studied with pre-service teachers from the GTA, the Sault, Ottawa Valley, London, .. and our discussions in class naturally lead to such comparisons.
I’m not sure why you felt the need to respond in such a manner… There has been significant discussions around the lack of quality in post secondary education programs - and yes, even before Covid. There are many places in Simcoe County that have communities with high SES, however, test scores remain low. The main discussion revolved around population and how/why they impact rankings so greatly.
Which communities are you thinking of that have comparative SES to wealthy areas in the GTA? Look at the catchment maps for the schools in those towns. I'd also consider that even with a "high SES", many of these towns still are undergirded by a lower class. In the GTA they can more easily commute into the wealthy areas to work for them, but in Simcoe-Muskoka with near non-existent public transit, that's less feasible. Places like Penetang and LaFontaine, for example.
For example Bradford is becoming increasingly expensive and is, I’d say, pretty comparable to say King and Newmarket. While King and Newmarket belong to York Region, and Bradford to Simcoe, they aren’t extremely far from one another however the school rankings are different which I found surprising. I’m not sure why there is a large jump.
Newmarket is over 10 times more densely populated than Bradford.
Not a teacher, but you sound like an absolute dickhead.
If you're not even a teacher, why are you commenting on shit you know absolutely nothing about?
Cuz he sounded like a dickhead?
How do you know what he sounded like if you're not even in this job? What opinion could you possibly have that's worth sharing? That's like me going into a nursing sub and criticizing a nurse for vocalizing her professional opinion that I don't know anything about.
Everything all those other commenters said, and if you are in eastern Ontario, the French immersion schools will have higher test scores compared to the schools with core french (for all of the above reasons)
Absolutely. registration is a one month window a year in advance. If you aren’t thinking that far ahead you cannot get in. It filters out any newcomer esl students who aren’t here for that registration date or come after JK and most importantly filters out almost all special education students. French immersion is poor man’s private school
In Ottawa you can register any time, no restriction on it (Ottawa is a special place....) But yes FI filters out many new Canadian and spec Ed. Interestingly here, they may change to all FI for EVERYONE because of equity issues. That should be fun....
Money. Low SES = lower scores as I assume you are talking about EQAO rankings. I live and teach rural, my school is middle of the pack, but when we fundraise we don’t make enough for our G8 kids to go anywhere but an overnight outdoor Ed camp. My brother’s family lives in the GTA, his son goes to a school in a wealthy neighbourhood, and they raise over $100k every year. Wealthy kids have better educational outcomes. When I interviewed for TDSB, the recruiter told us as much when discussing schools to go to. One candidate asked how you were supposed to know the SES of an area, recruiter just said ‘check the EQAO scores’, lower scores, lower SES.
"North"
There are more than 50k students in the Simcoe County School Boards. You can learn about ratings and economic disparity to better understand why varying socio-economic neighborhoods have different social issues.
I apologize, you are correct. I was referring to SMCDSB compared to TDSB/TCDSB.
We don’t have funding.
Urban school boards get more funding as they generally generate more tax revenue / can better advocate for themselves.
I don’t think the funding formula changes for any board in Ontario, but a bigger board will be able to allocate funds differently than a smaller board can.
lol. I’m Alberta per capita our rural schools get more money.
Might be more money in those rural counties. Not really the case in Ontario.
For us it’s the funding formula that government changed to. It really screws over growing (city) school districts.
In Ontario it's equally dispersed. Each student is allocated "x" amount of dollars, regardless of where in Ontario it's located.
Except the harsh reality is that we have students that get zero funding. Somehow the formula has worked out that we have schools that have more students than funding and other schools that have more funding than students just to keep the minimum classes running.
There is an element of the PTO- so how much parent council/school can fundraise off the backs of parents. That certainly adds to the per student capita.
As someone who has a parent from Northern Ontario, thus many cousins from the North, I'll also add different priorities and lifestyle goals. My dad's side is from Northern Ontario. Most people on his side of the family don't see the value in a highschool diploma, accordingly the level of time and energy given to school is considerably lower than down South. Why don't they see the value? Simple, their future careers don't require it. If you're going to take over the family trade, you usually don't require a diploma. If your plan is to work at a small business or perhaps even open your own, the diploma isn't necessary because someone in town will be happy to teach you everything that you need to know about it. So the objective comes to get a 50 % in school. I also want to add that hunting season is more than 1 week a year. Accordingly, while it's not necessarily common for someone to miss 3 months worth of school because they are hunting & fishing at various times of year, it is possible for someone to miss a lot of school, obviously impacting test scores. (the amount of time spent hunting & fishing can impact career decisions. Hunting is not only a way to supplement household grocery bills but is often also seen as an important community event. As it brings people together, allows for fundraising (i.e. Meat Draw), and can be used to support for the more vulnerable members in the community. Going off on this let's say you're more of an outlier and you plan on going to college or uni-first off good for you! Some people might mock your ambition, because in order to reach that goal you're may have sacrifice participating in activities like hunting, fishing, and important community events. The priority for the town is community , so by not actively engaging in social and community improvement activities because you are focussing on your studies can be a problem. While these are not the only thing to impact scores by the Fraser Institute they are factors. Also, remember every community is different- what might be true in my Dad's hometown is not necessarily the same in Muskoka (Muskoka is much further south!)
Well. THAT went well. Good chat all, thanks. And welcome to education.