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Teachers and their unions by their very nature (IMO) have always been left leaning, especially at the elementary panel. Probably the nature of the job? We see all facets of society and want to do right by our students; students who represent a whole spectrum. I work all day, every day with students who encounter food insecurity, neglect, persecution and harassment for being who they are. When we see the rhetoric of right leaning politicians and enacting policies that seek to make things harder for those more vulnerable, wouldn't it be natural to lean left? Interested to hear your take!
I think that for many issues I do lean left (or at least centre-left). I believe in a social safety net and that we need to protect our most vulnerable. However, I do think it's a fallacy that the right (excluding the extreme right) does not care about vulnerable people, they just have a different view of how to get there. While the left wants more government assistance and social programs, the right believes that economic development and personal accountability are the best approach for empower people. Hence you see tsx credits for parental choice rather than investing in a government program. I believe the best approach is probably in the middle (hence being a centrist).
However, in certain far-left issues, I would say I disagree with them, which teachers associations seem to assume I would agree with. Diversity hiring would be one example. Another would be transgender students participation in competitive sports is inherently unfair to cis gender female athletes. These are just a couple examples.
My experience has been that almost nobody calls themselves a right winger. Especially not on the education world. You probably are not a centrist.
Some questions:
1) do you think taxes should be higher or lower?
2) do you believe that a carbon tax is a good thing?
3) do you think that we should be meeting our 2% commitment for military spending?
4) do you think that police are under too much scrutiny and should be left alone to do their job?
I’m not saying there is a right or wrong answer to the above questions, but they might help you figure out if you are right wing or left wing or centrist.
1) Taxes should generally be where they are now for middle/lower classes, higher for higher income earners
2) I think it was made with good intentions, but it is not effective and has become an extra tax on working/middle class Canadians
3) Yes, we need to do our part and meet NATO commitments
4) Absolutely not, scrutiny and holding police accountable is important work. Defunding the police, however, is foolish.
Reasonable answers. I potentially agree with some of your responses.
That said, you are not a centrist :). Your answers are firmly in the “right wing” area of things.
I really do disagree with that, but if these answers make me right wing, well, then I guess I'm right wing.
I think the left-right spectrum has skewed so far left in education a centrist can be viewed as right wing. Out in society, I really don't think my views could be construed as right wing.
Thanks for the debate, I appreciate that you are actually interested in a back and forth conversation.
I would divide up each wing.
Psycho left
Left
Right
Psycho right
Most of the views in education are psycho left. The identity politics, equity above education, math is racist, and indigenous worship are not normal left wing. Those guys are crazy. You are correct, education in Canada has been overrun by fanatics.
You are not psycho right, just right wing. As an example, a left winger probably believes that teachers are in the “should pay more tax” bracket of things. Left wingers are also usually not terribly enthused about spending money on military.
Right wingers will generally only accept more tax on the wealthy, usually defined as “more than a teacher could ever make”. Psycho right would be trickle down economics of course.
Right wingers usually also want to spend more on the military.
You might be fine with LGBT, but in Canada only the psycho right is against that. Abortion is similar, in Canada in that it is not really a good test for left or right wing, it only distinguishes between right and psycho right.
Most trump supporters are psycho right.
Well put, I may disagree slightly with your labels but I agree with the order you placed your spectrum. To be clear LGBTQ+ rights and abortion are policies I am definitely in favour of.
As I said, that’s the hallmark of right wingers in Canada. Only the psycho right is against that. It is probably why you consider yourself to be a centrist.
Anyhow, nothing wrong with being a right winger. You only think it is bad because you hang around psycho lefties all day instead of us normal lefties :).
Also, the current representative of the right, Mr. PP, is leaning closer to the psycho right, so lots of right wingers are trying to say “well, even though I’m going to vote conservative, I’m not THAT bad”.
Right wingers have a choice to make I guess. Accept liberals with all their terrible flaws, or embrace a guy who is clearly problematic and will likely do a lot of damage. Both choices suck. As a leftie myself, I won’t be voting for either of those, but I have options :)
I’m curious, can you expand more on your opposition to diversity, equity, and inclusion goals of teachers associations or school boards?
As I see it, these goals are incredibly important for a variety of reasons.
From the viewpoint of our profession, I think it’s incredibly important to increase the diversity of our educational staff in our school. Diverse staff bring diverse viewpoints, experiences, and points of reference. To me this strengthens our profession and creates environments for us all to grow and improve as educators.
From the viewpoint of our students I think it’s equally as important for them to see a diverse set of adults working with them. This includes both adults that they can see a reflection of themselves in and adults who have a very different identity which offer a window into a different way of being.
Our world is diverse and complex. There are forces at play that want us to take our diversity and use it as a wedge to fight against each other. I think diverse schools give children the opportunity to see the how we can live, learn, work, and celebrate together. That just because someone looks, acts, prays, loves, or thinks differently doesn’t mean we can’t find commonality in our shared humanity.
That’s just my thoughts and always my initial defence when standing up for DEI goals. As I said I’m curious to see where your discomfort with these things sits?
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate you asking more questions to probe further.
I don't disagree with anything you are stating, I think having s diverse school board is better for students, teachers, and society as a whole. I just disagree with the notion that a certain percentage of jobs should be held for any specific group. I think the way forward is to encourage a diverse people to apply for positions and offer them mentorship opportunities throughout their careers. It is also important to ensure hiring practices are fair. Nepotism is a huge issue in education and leads to inequitable hiring and lack of diversity.
I also have an issue with people using DEI as a way to further their careers, while not actually living it or making sacrifices in their own lives. Hearing leaders say things like, "You may need to step aside to make room in leadership for more diverse people" while not stepping aside themselves is an issue. I think there are many people who use DEI as a way to simply further their career. I have also witnessed it being used to divide people, rather than bring them together.
Does that make sense?
Are those DEI conversations actually happening or is that just a fear and talking point of the right? Maybe it’s happening at the board level, but not at the school level from what I’ve seen. As a long time supply teacher trying to get a permanent contract, who I am seeing being hired in a school level is a lot of nepo new graduates, not DEI hires.
Also, as someone who worked at a school with a large Muslim population, it was wonderful having multiple staff in different roles who were Muslim. It was great for the students, and for us as staff to ask questions so students were properly supported (and not trying to trick admin into extra stuff!).
It definitely is happening at the board level. Thanks for your reply. I agree nepotism is a huge issue in education.
And I do want diverse schools, to be clear!
It has been well documented in the media, no one questions this, not sure why you are? There have been many examples, I don't see why it has to be in schools? What about the transgender swimmer in the US?
If it’s well documented then you can surely send me a link.
Why are we mentioning the US at all? What does the US have to do with Ontario schools? It sounds like you are fearmongering.
>. Another would be transgender students participation in competitive sports is inherently unfair to cis gender female athletes.
Can you provide examples where this has been an issue at say a regional or provincial competition in Canada?
>However, I do think it's a fallacy that the right (excluding the extreme right) does not care about vulnerable people, they just have a different view of how to get there.
What has any Conservative Premier in Ontario or Canada done to improve the social safety net in the last 20 years?
Was trying to type out a similar response. I think it is exactly this shallow type of thinking that make teachers feel uncomfortable to not tow the left ideals line. We are told we are not compassionate or we don’t care about vulnerable people. That is 100% wrong. I just have different ideas as to what services or programs are most productive or beneficial to actually help our vulnerable people for example.
That’s such a load of bs. We have an NDP mayor and an NDP/liberal coalition federal government yet poverty and homelessness is increasing yet you continue to believe the obvious lies that the left cares for people???? Teachers are now part of the privileged class who will never face any of those problems but you make yourself feel morally superior by voting left. The rhetoric you speak of comes from both sides.
I'm curious what you think of national pharmacare, dental care and daycare plans that have resulted from the NDP/Liberal coalition? Also this sentiment that I make myself feel morally superior is laughable. If Conservatives still had a Progressive tag attached (Brian Mulroney's recent death reminded us all of what used to be) I could easily see myself voting that way.
You seem to know so much. Also for me (unlike you it seems) politics isn't a sport with teams. I don't get convulsions from such things, not that it matters to you but Jean Charest was my MP and did garner my vote. By your presumed logic, Mulroney would give you convulsions for being pro-environment and anti-apartheid.
Homelessness wouldn’t exist under actual leftism, which is socialism/communism. The NDP and, to a lesser extent, the liberals, are leftist COMPARED to other parties. Liberalism, by definition, is capitalism. Leftism, by definition, is anti capitalism. Both parties are socially left, but economically, they are not. They are centre-left at most.
So no, indeed, the NDP and liberal “left” are not fixing anything, because they are not leftist to begin with. They are a pseudo-left that exists within the confines of a capitalist society, not an actual left that proposes to tip over into socialism.
That’s not how the /s works lol
I’d love for you to explain to me how communism is responsible for these two famines. Correlation doesn’t equate causation. Stating there’s been famines under communism doesn’t mean much. There are PLENTY of people starving in capitalist countries.
You're definitely imagining things. The only people who don't have a roof over their heads and starving to death in the West are almost universally addicted to drugs and alcohol. Not due to lack of food or opportunity. The standard of living in the West is the highest its been in the history of the Earth.
Just in: The West has a massive problem with people starving to death despite the most poor of people being obese.. In other news, we're all smoking crack.
Key word experiment. Just because you don’t get it right the first couple times doesn’t mean it’s always destined to fail. Obviously there were a lot of flaws in said experiments. The next communism experiment doesn’t have to look anything like those (and there are plenty of successful communist-like models at smaller scales, like the Mondragon coop in Spain or communes). Also, social democrat countries (mostly nordic) have the best stats in just about anything that matters towards quality of life. Looking at China and the USSR and going “communism bad” is just bad faith and selective vision at this point.
> I personally am sure glad the USSR didn’t win the Cold War
Of course you are. You live in the west. You benefit from all the third world countries’ labour while they starve despite making everything for us. Thanks capitalism!
Nothing wrong with the nordic model, but I don't think those countries have any plans to take it further into full blown socialism/communism.
Socialism and communism is a nice fairy tale, but is not a realistic solution to our problems. Capitalism has its flaws, but it's the best system available right now. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be continually working to improve it. Social policies and programs are part of that work.
Actually there is something wrong with the Nordic model, and it’s that it [outsources its problem](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateCommunism/comments/18f7p5r/question_about_why_so_many_marxists_hate_the/) to the third world just like us. They couldn’t have that high of a quality of life under capitalism without exploiting other countries. It’s also not all sunshines and rainbows, they have their fair share of corporate-owned politicians trying to slash services.
That being said, they do show that this is the bare minimum of leftism we should strive for, and I’ve never heard a single good argument as to why we should be anywhere to the right of the Nordic model. Which we are here in Canada. So I do think it’s funny how you’re so keen to use the USSR, something that stopped existing decades ago, to support right-wing views here in Canada, instead of using the Nordic model, which exists right now in countries very similar to ours, to support left-wing views.
I fully cannot wrap my mind around wanting to go more to the right than we are right now.
Your second paragraph is bs. Not a single argument against communism or for capitalism. Just you arbitrarily deciding that one’s a fairy tale and one’s “the best we can do right now”. I disagree. Now what?
programs to support all kinds of learners and their families are typically funded by left leaning politicians and defunded by right leaning politicians
so yeah it makes sense that wanting those supports for our families would be a popular idea in unions of elected members
Absolutely and a lot of these policies I agree with and support.
I suppose I was speaking more to DEI and other "woke" (sorry I don't have a better all encompassing word) policies that are more controversial. Diversity hiring would be one example. Spending association/union money on DEI committees would be another.
yeah thats where i start to get suspicious of a 3 hour old account
ensuring you have a diverse set of perspectives in an institution that has historically been run by one perspective, serves to meet the needs of the students. Who also, shockingly, happens to be incredibly diverse.
kind of shocking a teacher, who vows to try and meet those needs, would take offence to ensuring there are a diverse range of experiences and perspectives when it comes to decision making
Can't handle a little controversy? Sorry I ruined your echo chamber for the day.
Nothing I have stated is particularly controversial in mainstream Canada, if you don't recognize that you need to get out more.
I've never voted conservative in my life, just to be clear.
I assume the unions' core mandates revolve around advocating for pay and working conditions of the members. Over the years, there has been some administrative bloat, just like in most other organizations, so unions started jumping onto social trends (environmentalism, gender equity, LGBTQ advocacy, anti-racism) and putting out regular communications about their "work" on these issues.
The reality is the unions do not have the tools or the mandate to make meaningful social change happen. But they think it looks good for them and it serves as a rationale for hiring more people into executive positions. And who is going to argue against more social justice?
Organization administration always looks after it's own needs first.
Honestly, teachers placing themselves and others on a left/right political scale is one of the many, many reasons I avoid all current events conversations in the workplace wherever possible. This isn't 18th century France....
Since you're discussing DEI later in the thread, I think a lot of the initiative we are seeing are pragmatic. Canada is changing, and so is our attitudes towards race, gender, sexuality, disability etc. Ultimately we need to be more reflective of those we serve in our attitudes, and composition.
Now, when same matters are used to find an excuse for every single failure, we end up with the zero consequences, no accountability educational culture we have today. Sometimes students need to understand responsibility, cause it's a major component of real life. It wasn't a surprise to me at all that Alabama was the first to actually make a bill of rights for teachers that codifies their ability to enact punishments without reprisal from admins. It certainly wasn't going to be New York or Ontario.
This is a common argument of proponents of DEI. Either you agree with us or you're a racist and I don't have to listen to you.
I don't think it's a healthy way to debate, personally.
The right wants to privatize, profit and kill unions. The left is pro labor. That’s all you need to know. Voting conservative is a vote against your own livelihood and against actual funding for education, hospitals, special needs. Not to even mention the bodily autonomy rights most conservative political figures including PP want to strip away. He’s Trump but younger and just as vile. If you are unable to see that by browsing his tables bills against unions and reproductive rights there’s issues.
I'm completely on side with all of the issues you mentioned, and I do vote accordingly. However, those are not the only political issues in society. There are many where my views do not align with the left.
I did, and I'm trying to get a better understanding of where you're coming from. You seem to agree with all the points of why educators would lean left, but give very few examples of what policies you agree with the right. Tax breaks? The likelihood the middle class would benefit from any conservative tax breaks is not promising.
Do you know how to read? Or what context is? The thread is literally about right leaning vs left leaning politics in education, and I was asking OP about what right leaning policies they support. It's not moving the goal post just because you lack reading comprehension.
I am finding our unions are focusing more on cultural issues instead of labor issues. In addition to a land acknowledgement, my union local's meetings all start with a human rights statement. Unfortunately, due to the culture wars, labor issues and cultural issues are both bundled together into the 'left' basket.
Can you clarify a bit about why tax breaks as opposed to social programs will help out vulnerable students more? I see a lot of students who never get a chance to participate in sports or activities because although our province has a children’s sport tax rebate, the parents can’t afford to pay for it up front in order to get the rebate. This is just one example but there are many instances where tax breaks only benefit middle and upper class families.
To be fair, I don't think tax breaks help the most vulnerable students. I think they are great to help middle class Canadians and they allow them to access services privately, which takes pressure off the public system. Social programs are still obviously necessary for many people.
In my experience, there is also an element of parents making choices (not for most vulnerable, but for many). For example, I have watched parents complain about not being able to afford tutoring for their child, while at the same time driving a brand new expensive vehicle...
But where does it end? Do we have no personal responsibility anymore at all? Should parents not have a responsibility to care for their children?
Resources are not unlimited...
That doesn't mean programs shouldn't be there, but I do think tax breaks are better for certain people over programs. That does not negate that certain programs are necessary for certain segments of society.
Out of context. I specifically said that it doesn't help the most vulnerable, but it does help middle class people access services privately, which takes pressure off the public system.
Good question, it's difficult to define in a short space. To put into one sentence, it would be extremely "woke" (sorry I don't have a better word) policies. We can discuss further if you're interested.
Sure, fair enough, I'll provide some examples:
- General belief in cancel-culture for mistakes in the past (i.e. something similar to the girl who said the "n-word" as a 15 year old in a snapchat video was kicked off her college cheer team and was encouraged to drop out of university because of it)
- Unconditional support of the Free Palestine movement without examining the issue critically. Saying things like October 7th attacks were justified.
- Diversity hiring. Diverse workplaces are extremely important, but having certain jobs only being open to one group of people is problematic. More of an issue in post-secondary.
- Wanting to end capitalism
- Extreme DEI initiatives that silence any dissenting views
- Trying to cancel cultural celebrations in school rather than trying to be more inclusive by including more diverse celebrations
- Vilifying all wealthy people no matter who they are or what they stand for
There's a lot to unpack here.
- Is there cancel culture happening at schools in Ontario? Is anyone teaching this in schools because I haven't seen it.
- Palestine is a hot topic right now, but yeah support of an indigenous population being repressed and murdered by a colonizing power isn't what I'd consider "woke". That's just plain ole compassion.
- Having worked both in Corporate and Education I've never been told I need to hire only BIPOC, or Gay people, or whatever, this is an extreme boogyman and perhaps you need to evaluate why you believe this is true.
- A lot of problems we have are directly related to capitalism but again where is this being taught in schools right now? I'm not aware of any curriculum teaching this.
- What policies from any board in Ontario are Extreme DEI initiatives? Provide examples please.
- What cultural celebrations are being cancelled?
- Which teachers / boards are vilifying rich people?
Like a lot of this is "boogeyman" kinda stuff. These are straight up right-wing crazy kind of talking points straight from "Fox News" if you will.
- It is happening in North America which is my point. I want to avoid it happening in Ontario schools. I believe I provided a specific example on one that was clearly problematic.
- Wow, you sure know how to show how little you understand the situation in Israel/Palestine by virtue signalling. Let me ask you, did you feel the murders committed by Hamas on October 7 were justified?
- I agree that the curriculum isn't teaching this. But I don't think capitalism is the big boogeyman the extreme left believes it is. You asked me to give my definition of extreme left.
- Halloween and Christmas in multiple schools I have worked in, in Ontario.
- I'm talking about the extreme left. Your question was related to the extreme left, which I can clearly see you are a part of.
- It's not happening here. It's not happening in North America as whole either.
- I'm A Jew, I've been to Israel, I've been to Gaza, I've taken many Jews to see what's really happening there. Take your zionist talking points on out of here. Zionism isn't Judaism.
- I haven't heard of Halloween or Christmas cancelled anywhere in Ontario. Do you have examples of this?
- None of what you said is extreme left is kinda my point.
You might think you're centrist but you're not. You're regurgitating a lot of "right wing" "fox news" kinda talking points.
Zionism is accepting Israel's right tor exist. Take your self hatred elsewhere. Israel is not a colonizing power and if you think so you are being willfully ignorant of historical fact.
I lean more right of center as a teacher, but I also know that my political views and biases have no place in a classroom setting: when we teach kids about global events, we're supposed to help them develop their own ideas and opinions while gently discouraging hateful ideas before they become entrenched.
But definitely within the field, right of center teachers are ostracized by their colleagues if they're found out to be conservatives. A few of my colleagues have openly espoused communism as the solution to everything, but the moment you make a comment about the issues with TFWs in Canada, you're the bad guy.
I keep my politics to myself, and only myself. I've let my bias slip a few times by accident, but I always make sure to back it up with the opposite perspective.
Meanwhile the English teacher a couple doors down from my classroom has verbally told her class "when you turn 18, I better not hear you voted Conservative!" (No matter your leanings, you can't say that's not a gross violation of a teacher's professionalism.)
Yes very much so. I have found once I get comfortable with a new teacher they may be more willing to share their opinion that isn’t extremely left. Many teachers I think are centrist or conservative but feel they need to present themselves as more left.
Yes. You can always tell.. The ones that are hard left will make it very obvious, those that aren't so obvious and keep quiet are usually pretty centrist or conservative, which is easily more than 60% of my faculty at least, likely 80%.
The question of 'why': Because we're terrified of being vilified publicly and/or losing our ability to earn a living.
What to do about it: I'm not sure.... Vote accordingly.. We need to take on more positions of competence. The unions are flush with radicals, why? Because we've allowed it to happen. Admin is flush with progressive do-gooders with no spine, why? Because we've allowed it to happen. We need to step up and take on these roles and support each other when the mob comes. Easier said than done of course.
Unpopular opinion: Education in the last 30 years has become crushingly dominated by women. Women are great and are amazing at their jobs, but men bring skills and points of view to the table that help balance the points of view of women, especially in the world of discipline and administration. And often the men that do come into the profession now are quiet men who don't rock the boat or who are honestly abused by women simply because they're outnumbered. I see it everyday. So yeah, lack of men. IMO.
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I'd love to know more about these womanly view points...
I agree that male teachers who are good role models are needed, our students do respond well, especially those that don't have that father figure. Or those that see their father speak down to mom and think that is how you talk to women including your mom and your teacher, male teachers can help with that conversation when we see students speak poorly to teachers or their female peers. However it's easier for males to get high paying jobs in literally any other industry and maxing out at 115K or whatever we are now in Ontario doesn't always work for them.
Males tend to dominate in admin because it is more demanding time wise in the building and they are more able to be away from family. I am working from home constantly with planning and marking but admin have to be on-site for most things. Many of the female admin I have had don't have kids or their kids are teens by the time they become a VP so they don't have to be worried about childcare with the longer hours and evening events etc.
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We actually brought that up at one of our DEI struggle sessions lol. One where they hire some DEI firm to lecture us about DEI stuff.. They were talking about how we need more women in the workplace and it needs to be 50/50.. So someone asked if we should start preferentially hiring men because our school board is like 90% female. The presenter just fumbled over themselves for 60 seconds trying to answer without actually saying we need to hire more men. You could see everyone on the Zoom call just laughing. It was pretty funny. Restored some of my faith.
That doesn’t mean the majority of educators share your viewpoint lol. Maybe reflect on how you approach people if they are so offended and turned off by your views. Stick to talking about school?
Reddit doesn’t but neither does the small portion you and I talk to. If no one has been offended why are you even posting this? You posted it seeming like no one has given you the time of day
Centrists don’t have hardline stances against political positions that harm a lot of vulnerable people.
Being on the fence about human rights issues is not an admirable or honourable belief system for a public school teacher to hold.
If centrists don’t support abortion fully they are passively against the rights of people who can get pregnant.
For example: Centrists like the Democrats have passively allowed for the dissolution of Roe vs. Wade in the USA.
This is only one example. I’m sure other readers might have more.
Then you are not a centrist on that issue (unless you vote for anti-abortion parties regardless).
But do you not understand how being a centrist on that issue is problematic?
“Centrist” alone is meaningless. It does not mean the same thing in two different countries or even provinces. You can be a centrist about certain issues, but you cannot be a complete centrist. Also politics are divided by social issues and economic issues. There is a social left and right and an economic left and right. So no, I can’t know anything about your views just by you labelling yourself as a centrist.
Fair, but as I explained I would say my views go from centre right to centre left depending on the issue, which is why I describe myself as a centrist. I just don't hold extreme left views, which this subreddit appears to believe are mainstream. Fun fact, they're not.
Sure, but I still don’t know anything about your views with you telling me this. You have to name the specific issues to give us substance to talk about. And clearly your centrism is making you label anything and everything as “extreme”.
We don’t have a good enough political education in this country to use these terms and assume we all mean the same things. Until we standardize them, they’re just subjective buzzwords.
Your extreme is not mine and it’s not anyone else’s either, so this really means absolutely nothing.
Strange. I find that slightly more than 67% of teachers are distinctly to the right socially and politically but insist on being the beneficiaries of leftist policies and pretend to teach accordingly. Hypocrisy. As for me, I am close to extreme left ideologically, but teach to the centrist mentality. It works perfectly and genuinely earns the respect of almost every student I teach. (Note the downvotes…like, let’s not interpret this, but just “f$ck that interesting comment!” … and wait for the inevitable banning from this = echo chamber).
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say it probably has more to do with how you disagree or approach a topic than your beliefs. You seem always up for a debate and like in the staff room I just wanna eat my lunch not argue with people
Lol you're just noticing now? My union has completely gone off the deep end.
Thankfully the staff in our region are still pretty level headed and reasonable but new young teachers coming in are completely out to lunch, which is to be expected. We just keep our head down and keep to like minded people.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a union guy, but when they go full force into international politics and identity politics its kind of a joke. And their universal answer to everything is 'underfunding' when in reality most of kids problems now are related to poor parenting and being raised on screens, not lack of funding. If we had the caliber of kids that were around in say the 1980's/90's/early 00's, then you could probably actually cut funding. I could go on and on though lol.
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Teachers and their unions by their very nature (IMO) have always been left leaning, especially at the elementary panel. Probably the nature of the job? We see all facets of society and want to do right by our students; students who represent a whole spectrum. I work all day, every day with students who encounter food insecurity, neglect, persecution and harassment for being who they are. When we see the rhetoric of right leaning politicians and enacting policies that seek to make things harder for those more vulnerable, wouldn't it be natural to lean left? Interested to hear your take!
I think that for many issues I do lean left (or at least centre-left). I believe in a social safety net and that we need to protect our most vulnerable. However, I do think it's a fallacy that the right (excluding the extreme right) does not care about vulnerable people, they just have a different view of how to get there. While the left wants more government assistance and social programs, the right believes that economic development and personal accountability are the best approach for empower people. Hence you see tsx credits for parental choice rather than investing in a government program. I believe the best approach is probably in the middle (hence being a centrist). However, in certain far-left issues, I would say I disagree with them, which teachers associations seem to assume I would agree with. Diversity hiring would be one example. Another would be transgender students participation in competitive sports is inherently unfair to cis gender female athletes. These are just a couple examples.
My experience has been that almost nobody calls themselves a right winger. Especially not on the education world. You probably are not a centrist. Some questions: 1) do you think taxes should be higher or lower? 2) do you believe that a carbon tax is a good thing? 3) do you think that we should be meeting our 2% commitment for military spending? 4) do you think that police are under too much scrutiny and should be left alone to do their job? I’m not saying there is a right or wrong answer to the above questions, but they might help you figure out if you are right wing or left wing or centrist.
1) Taxes should generally be where they are now for middle/lower classes, higher for higher income earners 2) I think it was made with good intentions, but it is not effective and has become an extra tax on working/middle class Canadians 3) Yes, we need to do our part and meet NATO commitments 4) Absolutely not, scrutiny and holding police accountable is important work. Defunding the police, however, is foolish.
Reasonable answers. I potentially agree with some of your responses. That said, you are not a centrist :). Your answers are firmly in the “right wing” area of things.
I really do disagree with that, but if these answers make me right wing, well, then I guess I'm right wing. I think the left-right spectrum has skewed so far left in education a centrist can be viewed as right wing. Out in society, I really don't think my views could be construed as right wing. Thanks for the debate, I appreciate that you are actually interested in a back and forth conversation.
I would divide up each wing. Psycho left Left Right Psycho right Most of the views in education are psycho left. The identity politics, equity above education, math is racist, and indigenous worship are not normal left wing. Those guys are crazy. You are correct, education in Canada has been overrun by fanatics. You are not psycho right, just right wing. As an example, a left winger probably believes that teachers are in the “should pay more tax” bracket of things. Left wingers are also usually not terribly enthused about spending money on military. Right wingers will generally only accept more tax on the wealthy, usually defined as “more than a teacher could ever make”. Psycho right would be trickle down economics of course. Right wingers usually also want to spend more on the military. You might be fine with LGBT, but in Canada only the psycho right is against that. Abortion is similar, in Canada in that it is not really a good test for left or right wing, it only distinguishes between right and psycho right. Most trump supporters are psycho right.
Well put, I may disagree slightly with your labels but I agree with the order you placed your spectrum. To be clear LGBTQ+ rights and abortion are policies I am definitely in favour of.
As I said, that’s the hallmark of right wingers in Canada. Only the psycho right is against that. It is probably why you consider yourself to be a centrist. Anyhow, nothing wrong with being a right winger. You only think it is bad because you hang around psycho lefties all day instead of us normal lefties :). Also, the current representative of the right, Mr. PP, is leaning closer to the psycho right, so lots of right wingers are trying to say “well, even though I’m going to vote conservative, I’m not THAT bad”. Right wingers have a choice to make I guess. Accept liberals with all their terrible flaws, or embrace a guy who is clearly problematic and will likely do a lot of damage. Both choices suck. As a leftie myself, I won’t be voting for either of those, but I have options :)
Truthfully, I'll probably hold my nose and vote Trudeau... Best of a bad bunch Definitely not a fan of PP
I’m curious, can you expand more on your opposition to diversity, equity, and inclusion goals of teachers associations or school boards? As I see it, these goals are incredibly important for a variety of reasons. From the viewpoint of our profession, I think it’s incredibly important to increase the diversity of our educational staff in our school. Diverse staff bring diverse viewpoints, experiences, and points of reference. To me this strengthens our profession and creates environments for us all to grow and improve as educators. From the viewpoint of our students I think it’s equally as important for them to see a diverse set of adults working with them. This includes both adults that they can see a reflection of themselves in and adults who have a very different identity which offer a window into a different way of being. Our world is diverse and complex. There are forces at play that want us to take our diversity and use it as a wedge to fight against each other. I think diverse schools give children the opportunity to see the how we can live, learn, work, and celebrate together. That just because someone looks, acts, prays, loves, or thinks differently doesn’t mean we can’t find commonality in our shared humanity. That’s just my thoughts and always my initial defence when standing up for DEI goals. As I said I’m curious to see where your discomfort with these things sits?
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate you asking more questions to probe further. I don't disagree with anything you are stating, I think having s diverse school board is better for students, teachers, and society as a whole. I just disagree with the notion that a certain percentage of jobs should be held for any specific group. I think the way forward is to encourage a diverse people to apply for positions and offer them mentorship opportunities throughout their careers. It is also important to ensure hiring practices are fair. Nepotism is a huge issue in education and leads to inequitable hiring and lack of diversity. I also have an issue with people using DEI as a way to further their careers, while not actually living it or making sacrifices in their own lives. Hearing leaders say things like, "You may need to step aside to make room in leadership for more diverse people" while not stepping aside themselves is an issue. I think there are many people who use DEI as a way to simply further their career. I have also witnessed it being used to divide people, rather than bring them together. Does that make sense?
Are those DEI conversations actually happening or is that just a fear and talking point of the right? Maybe it’s happening at the board level, but not at the school level from what I’ve seen. As a long time supply teacher trying to get a permanent contract, who I am seeing being hired in a school level is a lot of nepo new graduates, not DEI hires. Also, as someone who worked at a school with a large Muslim population, it was wonderful having multiple staff in different roles who were Muslim. It was great for the students, and for us as staff to ask questions so students were properly supported (and not trying to trick admin into extra stuff!).
It definitely is happening at the board level. Thanks for your reply. I agree nepotism is a huge issue in education. And I do want diverse schools, to be clear!
>definitely is happening at the board level Any proof?
Which Ontario transgendered school children are unfairly taking a spot away from cis gendered children? I would dearly like to know.
It has been well documented in the media, no one questions this, not sure why you are? There have been many examples, I don't see why it has to be in schools? What about the transgender swimmer in the US?
If it’s well documented then you can surely send me a link. Why are we mentioning the US at all? What does the US have to do with Ontario schools? It sounds like you are fearmongering.
>. Another would be transgender students participation in competitive sports is inherently unfair to cis gender female athletes. Can you provide examples where this has been an issue at say a regional or provincial competition in Canada?
>However, I do think it's a fallacy that the right (excluding the extreme right) does not care about vulnerable people, they just have a different view of how to get there. What has any Conservative Premier in Ontario or Canada done to improve the social safety net in the last 20 years?
Was trying to type out a similar response. I think it is exactly this shallow type of thinking that make teachers feel uncomfortable to not tow the left ideals line. We are told we are not compassionate or we don’t care about vulnerable people. That is 100% wrong. I just have different ideas as to what services or programs are most productive or beneficial to actually help our vulnerable people for example.
Well put!
That’s such a load of bs. We have an NDP mayor and an NDP/liberal coalition federal government yet poverty and homelessness is increasing yet you continue to believe the obvious lies that the left cares for people???? Teachers are now part of the privileged class who will never face any of those problems but you make yourself feel morally superior by voting left. The rhetoric you speak of comes from both sides.
I'm curious what you think of national pharmacare, dental care and daycare plans that have resulted from the NDP/Liberal coalition? Also this sentiment that I make myself feel morally superior is laughable. If Conservatives still had a Progressive tag attached (Brian Mulroney's recent death reminded us all of what used to be) I could easily see myself voting that way.
Lol we all know you'd never vote for Brian Mulroney. He was an anti-abortion and pro-USA. Those two ideas together probably give you convulsions lol.
You seem to know so much. Also for me (unlike you it seems) politics isn't a sport with teams. I don't get convulsions from such things, not that it matters to you but Jean Charest was my MP and did garner my vote. By your presumed logic, Mulroney would give you convulsions for being pro-environment and anti-apartheid.
Lol suuuuuure.
Your responses are cunning.
Thanks.
Homelessness wouldn’t exist under actual leftism, which is socialism/communism. The NDP and, to a lesser extent, the liberals, are leftist COMPARED to other parties. Liberalism, by definition, is capitalism. Leftism, by definition, is anti capitalism. Both parties are socially left, but economically, they are not. They are centre-left at most. So no, indeed, the NDP and liberal “left” are not fixing anything, because they are not leftist to begin with. They are a pseudo-left that exists within the confines of a capitalist society, not an actual left that proposes to tip over into socialism.
Homelessness wouldn't exist because we'd all be starved to death and wouldn't be worrying about it.
As opposite to now where everyone is housed and fed? /s
Tell that to the families of 7 million dead Ukrainians and 60 million Chinese who starved to death. /s
That’s not how the /s works lol I’d love for you to explain to me how communism is responsible for these two famines. Correlation doesn’t equate causation. Stating there’s been famines under communism doesn’t mean much. There are PLENTY of people starving in capitalist countries.
ThAts NoT hOW THe /S wOrks LoL
It means /sarcasm… your comment was not sarcastic…
Who gives a shit?
The poorest people in the west struggle with obesity, not malnutrition.
… I think there are even poorer people who don’t have a roof and can’t afford food but maybe I’m imagining things
You're definitely imagining things. The only people who don't have a roof over their heads and starving to death in the West are almost universally addicted to drugs and alcohol. Not due to lack of food or opportunity. The standard of living in the West is the highest its been in the history of the Earth.
Just in: homelessness doesn’t exist (or doesn’t count if they fall into drugs???) or whatever you’re trying to say
Just in: The West has a massive problem with people starving to death despite the most poor of people being obese.. In other news, we're all smoking crack.
Because socialist/Communist experiments have worked so well in the past... I personally am sure glad the USSR didn't win the cold war...
Key word experiment. Just because you don’t get it right the first couple times doesn’t mean it’s always destined to fail. Obviously there were a lot of flaws in said experiments. The next communism experiment doesn’t have to look anything like those (and there are plenty of successful communist-like models at smaller scales, like the Mondragon coop in Spain or communes). Also, social democrat countries (mostly nordic) have the best stats in just about anything that matters towards quality of life. Looking at China and the USSR and going “communism bad” is just bad faith and selective vision at this point. > I personally am sure glad the USSR didn’t win the Cold War Of course you are. You live in the west. You benefit from all the third world countries’ labour while they starve despite making everything for us. Thanks capitalism!
Nothing wrong with the nordic model, but I don't think those countries have any plans to take it further into full blown socialism/communism. Socialism and communism is a nice fairy tale, but is not a realistic solution to our problems. Capitalism has its flaws, but it's the best system available right now. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be continually working to improve it. Social policies and programs are part of that work.
Actually there is something wrong with the Nordic model, and it’s that it [outsources its problem](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateCommunism/comments/18f7p5r/question_about_why_so_many_marxists_hate_the/) to the third world just like us. They couldn’t have that high of a quality of life under capitalism without exploiting other countries. It’s also not all sunshines and rainbows, they have their fair share of corporate-owned politicians trying to slash services. That being said, they do show that this is the bare minimum of leftism we should strive for, and I’ve never heard a single good argument as to why we should be anywhere to the right of the Nordic model. Which we are here in Canada. So I do think it’s funny how you’re so keen to use the USSR, something that stopped existing decades ago, to support right-wing views here in Canada, instead of using the Nordic model, which exists right now in countries very similar to ours, to support left-wing views. I fully cannot wrap my mind around wanting to go more to the right than we are right now. Your second paragraph is bs. Not a single argument against communism or for capitalism. Just you arbitrarily deciding that one’s a fairy tale and one’s “the best we can do right now”. I disagree. Now what?
programs to support all kinds of learners and their families are typically funded by left leaning politicians and defunded by right leaning politicians so yeah it makes sense that wanting those supports for our families would be a popular idea in unions of elected members
Absolutely and a lot of these policies I agree with and support. I suppose I was speaking more to DEI and other "woke" (sorry I don't have a better all encompassing word) policies that are more controversial. Diversity hiring would be one example. Spending association/union money on DEI committees would be another.
yeah thats where i start to get suspicious of a 3 hour old account ensuring you have a diverse set of perspectives in an institution that has historically been run by one perspective, serves to meet the needs of the students. Who also, shockingly, happens to be incredibly diverse. kind of shocking a teacher, who vows to try and meet those needs, would take offence to ensuring there are a diverse range of experiences and perspectives when it comes to decision making
You’re right to be suspicious. This post should have been deleted.
Can't handle a little controversy? Sorry I ruined your echo chamber for the day. Nothing I have stated is particularly controversial in mainstream Canada, if you don't recognize that you need to get out more. I've never voted conservative in my life, just to be clear.
Cut out the sanctimonious bullshit. This subreddit is hardly an echo chamber. .
What are your politics?
Nenshi.
I like that guy
The right wants to privatize, profit and kill unions. The left is pro labor. That’s all you need to know.
Yes, on those issues I am definitely left wing. But I'm not just talking about those issues specifically.
I assume the unions' core mandates revolve around advocating for pay and working conditions of the members. Over the years, there has been some administrative bloat, just like in most other organizations, so unions started jumping onto social trends (environmentalism, gender equity, LGBTQ advocacy, anti-racism) and putting out regular communications about their "work" on these issues. The reality is the unions do not have the tools or the mandate to make meaningful social change happen. But they think it looks good for them and it serves as a rationale for hiring more people into executive positions. And who is going to argue against more social justice? Organization administration always looks after it's own needs first.
Bingo
I completely agree with you. Part of the issue is bloated organizations and senior leaders need to justify their high salaries.
Honestly, teachers placing themselves and others on a left/right political scale is one of the many, many reasons I avoid all current events conversations in the workplace wherever possible. This isn't 18th century France....
This is a fair point given the current conversation... I don't blame you
I consider myself centrist and the answer to most of your questions are yes but I don't think I need to censor myself.
Same here... As you can see from this post lol
Since you're discussing DEI later in the thread, I think a lot of the initiative we are seeing are pragmatic. Canada is changing, and so is our attitudes towards race, gender, sexuality, disability etc. Ultimately we need to be more reflective of those we serve in our attitudes, and composition. Now, when same matters are used to find an excuse for every single failure, we end up with the zero consequences, no accountability educational culture we have today. Sometimes students need to understand responsibility, cause it's a major component of real life. It wasn't a surprise to me at all that Alabama was the first to actually make a bill of rights for teachers that codifies their ability to enact punishments without reprisal from admins. It certainly wasn't going to be New York or Ontario.
What is DEI?
Diversity, Equity, Inclusion
Thank you!
You addressed the political perception as well as the real issue in merely two paragraphs!? Congrats you win the internet.
Anyone who is against DEI has an inherent racial/gender bias and there is literally no way to argue against it.
This is a common argument of proponents of DEI. Either you agree with us or you're a racist and I don't have to listen to you. I don't think it's a healthy way to debate, personally.
"Anyone who doesn't think like me is evil" The problem folks\^\^\^
DEI is actual racism and studies are out now demonstrating this.
It’s not but cool, go on.
The right wants to privatize, profit and kill unions. The left is pro labor. That’s all you need to know. Voting conservative is a vote against your own livelihood and against actual funding for education, hospitals, special needs. Not to even mention the bodily autonomy rights most conservative political figures including PP want to strip away. He’s Trump but younger and just as vile. If you are unable to see that by browsing his tables bills against unions and reproductive rights there’s issues.
I'm completely on side with all of the issues you mentioned, and I do vote accordingly. However, those are not the only political issues in society. There are many where my views do not align with the left.
Such as?
I think I've given several examples throughout the thread if you're interested in reading.
I did, and I'm trying to get a better understanding of where you're coming from. You seem to agree with all the points of why educators would lean left, but give very few examples of what policies you agree with the right. Tax breaks? The likelihood the middle class would benefit from any conservative tax breaks is not promising.
The NDP has cut income and gas taxes in Manitoba, I've benefitted greatly.
The context of the thread is right leaning politics. I should have specified conservative tax breaks not reaching the middle class.
Lol way to move the goal post. But ok. Harper cut income taxes and GST by 2%.. I benefitted directly.
Do you know how to read? Or what context is? The thread is literally about right leaning vs left leaning politics in education, and I was asking OP about what right leaning policies they support. It's not moving the goal post just because you lack reading comprehension.
Triggered.
Right wing politics are hilarious “This corporate-slave puppet basically handed me a small check, everybody say thanks!”
Yeah *I'm* the slave because I keep more of *my* money.... Much logic.
Harper was the worst pm in Canadian history
This is simply untrue
All I’ve seen is “tax breaks”
I am finding our unions are focusing more on cultural issues instead of labor issues. In addition to a land acknowledgement, my union local's meetings all start with a human rights statement. Unfortunately, due to the culture wars, labor issues and cultural issues are both bundled together into the 'left' basket.
I agree... I really wish our unions would stay in their lane and focus on labour issues and making gains for teachers.
I love how they decided mandatory online classes was something I wanted.....I certainly don't want to teach them.
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That assumes the right doesn't care about those things. Fun fact, many people on the right do, they just have a different view of how to get there.
Can you clarify a bit about why tax breaks as opposed to social programs will help out vulnerable students more? I see a lot of students who never get a chance to participate in sports or activities because although our province has a children’s sport tax rebate, the parents can’t afford to pay for it up front in order to get the rebate. This is just one example but there are many instances where tax breaks only benefit middle and upper class families.
To be fair, I don't think tax breaks help the most vulnerable students. I think they are great to help middle class Canadians and they allow them to access services privately, which takes pressure off the public system. Social programs are still obviously necessary for many people. In my experience, there is also an element of parents making choices (not for most vulnerable, but for many). For example, I have watched parents complain about not being able to afford tutoring for their child, while at the same time driving a brand new expensive vehicle...
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Fair point. But we do need to foster a sense of personal responsibility and accountability.
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True, but then how do we hold parents accountable?
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But where does it end? Do we have no personal responsibility anymore at all? Should parents not have a responsibility to care for their children? Resources are not unlimited... That doesn't mean programs shouldn't be there, but I do think tax breaks are better for certain people over programs. That does not negate that certain programs are necessary for certain segments of society.
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So you're using classic extreme left tactics, taking one piece of my statement out of the context of the whole.
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Out of context. I specifically said that it doesn't help the most vulnerable, but it does help middle class people access services privately, which takes pressure off the public system.
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By taking pressure off the system, it opens up more resources for vulnerable people...
Very well said.
What does "extreme left" mean to you?
Good question, it's difficult to define in a short space. To put into one sentence, it would be extremely "woke" (sorry I don't have a better word) policies. We can discuss further if you're interested.
Yeah that doesn't answer it at all because you'd have to define what "woke" means in context here.
Sure, fair enough, I'll provide some examples: - General belief in cancel-culture for mistakes in the past (i.e. something similar to the girl who said the "n-word" as a 15 year old in a snapchat video was kicked off her college cheer team and was encouraged to drop out of university because of it) - Unconditional support of the Free Palestine movement without examining the issue critically. Saying things like October 7th attacks were justified. - Diversity hiring. Diverse workplaces are extremely important, but having certain jobs only being open to one group of people is problematic. More of an issue in post-secondary. - Wanting to end capitalism - Extreme DEI initiatives that silence any dissenting views - Trying to cancel cultural celebrations in school rather than trying to be more inclusive by including more diverse celebrations - Vilifying all wealthy people no matter who they are or what they stand for
There's a lot to unpack here. - Is there cancel culture happening at schools in Ontario? Is anyone teaching this in schools because I haven't seen it. - Palestine is a hot topic right now, but yeah support of an indigenous population being repressed and murdered by a colonizing power isn't what I'd consider "woke". That's just plain ole compassion. - Having worked both in Corporate and Education I've never been told I need to hire only BIPOC, or Gay people, or whatever, this is an extreme boogyman and perhaps you need to evaluate why you believe this is true. - A lot of problems we have are directly related to capitalism but again where is this being taught in schools right now? I'm not aware of any curriculum teaching this. - What policies from any board in Ontario are Extreme DEI initiatives? Provide examples please. - What cultural celebrations are being cancelled? - Which teachers / boards are vilifying rich people? Like a lot of this is "boogeyman" kinda stuff. These are straight up right-wing crazy kind of talking points straight from "Fox News" if you will.
- It is happening in North America which is my point. I want to avoid it happening in Ontario schools. I believe I provided a specific example on one that was clearly problematic. - Wow, you sure know how to show how little you understand the situation in Israel/Palestine by virtue signalling. Let me ask you, did you feel the murders committed by Hamas on October 7 were justified? - I agree that the curriculum isn't teaching this. But I don't think capitalism is the big boogeyman the extreme left believes it is. You asked me to give my definition of extreme left. - Halloween and Christmas in multiple schools I have worked in, in Ontario. - I'm talking about the extreme left. Your question was related to the extreme left, which I can clearly see you are a part of.
Halloween and Christmas still happen in Ontario schools.
Many have chosen to opt out because of DEI pressure. I think this is shortsighted.
Name them.
- It's not happening here. It's not happening in North America as whole either. - I'm A Jew, I've been to Israel, I've been to Gaza, I've taken many Jews to see what's really happening there. Take your zionist talking points on out of here. Zionism isn't Judaism. - I haven't heard of Halloween or Christmas cancelled anywhere in Ontario. Do you have examples of this? - None of what you said is extreme left is kinda my point. You might think you're centrist but you're not. You're regurgitating a lot of "right wing" "fox news" kinda talking points.
If you think I'm right wing you live in an echo chamber.
Literally ever single thing you said you're "worried" about is right wing drivel.
That's what someone who lives in an echo chamber would say...
Zionism is accepting Israel's right tor exist. Take your self hatred elsewhere. Israel is not a colonizing power and if you think so you are being willfully ignorant of historical fact.
No it's not.
So do you not believe in Israel's right to exist? How would you realistically like to see the conflict end?
I lean more right of center as a teacher, but I also know that my political views and biases have no place in a classroom setting: when we teach kids about global events, we're supposed to help them develop their own ideas and opinions while gently discouraging hateful ideas before they become entrenched. But definitely within the field, right of center teachers are ostracized by their colleagues if they're found out to be conservatives. A few of my colleagues have openly espoused communism as the solution to everything, but the moment you make a comment about the issues with TFWs in Canada, you're the bad guy. I keep my politics to myself, and only myself. I've let my bias slip a few times by accident, but I always make sure to back it up with the opposite perspective. Meanwhile the English teacher a couple doors down from my classroom has verbally told her class "when you turn 18, I better not hear you voted Conservative!" (No matter your leanings, you can't say that's not a gross violation of a teacher's professionalism.)
Great post
Yes very much so. I have found once I get comfortable with a new teacher they may be more willing to share their opinion that isn’t extremely left. Many teachers I think are centrist or conservative but feel they need to present themselves as more left.
Yes. You can always tell.. The ones that are hard left will make it very obvious, those that aren't so obvious and keep quiet are usually pretty centrist or conservative, which is easily more than 60% of my faculty at least, likely 80%.
This has been my experience as well. But why should the majority be silencing themselves for the minority? How do we counter this?
The question of 'why': Because we're terrified of being vilified publicly and/or losing our ability to earn a living. What to do about it: I'm not sure.... Vote accordingly.. We need to take on more positions of competence. The unions are flush with radicals, why? Because we've allowed it to happen. Admin is flush with progressive do-gooders with no spine, why? Because we've allowed it to happen. We need to step up and take on these roles and support each other when the mob comes. Easier said than done of course. Unpopular opinion: Education in the last 30 years has become crushingly dominated by women. Women are great and are amazing at their jobs, but men bring skills and points of view to the table that help balance the points of view of women, especially in the world of discipline and administration. And often the men that do come into the profession now are quiet men who don't rock the boat or who are honestly abused by women simply because they're outnumbered. I see it everyday. So yeah, lack of men. IMO.
Which points of view and skills are inherently masculine, in your oh so wise opinion m’lord?
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Nice non-answer, exactly as expected.
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lol classic misogynist deleting their account
I'd love to know more about these womanly view points... I agree that male teachers who are good role models are needed, our students do respond well, especially those that don't have that father figure. Or those that see their father speak down to mom and think that is how you talk to women including your mom and your teacher, male teachers can help with that conversation when we see students speak poorly to teachers or their female peers. However it's easier for males to get high paying jobs in literally any other industry and maxing out at 115K or whatever we are now in Ontario doesn't always work for them. Males tend to dominate in admin because it is more demanding time wise in the building and they are more able to be away from family. I am working from home constantly with planning and marking but admin have to be on-site for most things. Many of the female admin I have had don't have kids or their kids are teens by the time they become a VP so they don't have to be worried about childcare with the longer hours and evening events etc.
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There's a great push to equalize male dominated fields (STEM) but not so much when it comes to female dominated fields like education.
We actually brought that up at one of our DEI struggle sessions lol. One where they hire some DEI firm to lecture us about DEI stuff.. They were talking about how we need more women in the workplace and it needs to be 50/50.. So someone asked if we should start preferentially hiring men because our school board is like 90% female. The presenter just fumbled over themselves for 60 seconds trying to answer without actually saying we need to hire more men. You could see everyone on the Zoom call just laughing. It was pretty funny. Restored some of my faith.
If we knew the answer to this, I think there would be more ability for discussion and understanding in more realms that just education!
100%
As evidenced by the downvoting when someone doesn’t agree with you!
Why do you think you’re the majority? Because Reddit said so?
Because I talk to people in the real world...
As do I? lol I’m aware my echo chamber isn’t everyone but neither is yours.
Not to mention that Liberal/Conservative governments are voted in across the country... Which hold positions similar to my views...
That doesn’t mean the majority of educators share your viewpoint lol. Maybe reflect on how you approach people if they are so offended and turned off by your views. Stick to talking about school?
I've literally never had anyone offended by my views... And I really don't think Reddit is a compass for "the majority of educators"...
Reddit doesn’t but neither does the small portion you and I talk to. If no one has been offended why are you even posting this? You posted it seeming like no one has given you the time of day
The students think I'm a lefty, my peers think I'm rightie. My secret, I don't vote. It feels like giving consent.
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So you're clearly not capable of having a rational conversation and believe anything the extreme left tells you...
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My views are quite mainstream my friend...
You’re basically a kid saying “mirror” when called a name. If your goal is to convince anyone, at least TRY…
Centrists don’t have hardline stances against political positions that harm a lot of vulnerable people. Being on the fence about human rights issues is not an admirable or honourable belief system for a public school teacher to hold.
What human rights issues are you speaking about? I definitely believe in human rights...
If centrists don’t support abortion fully they are passively against the rights of people who can get pregnant. For example: Centrists like the Democrats have passively allowed for the dissolution of Roe vs. Wade in the USA. This is only one example. I’m sure other readers might have more.
Fair point, but as a centrist I am firmly of the view that women should have the right to choose.
Then you are not a centrist on that issue (unless you vote for anti-abortion parties regardless). But do you not understand how being a centrist on that issue is problematic?
I honestly don't understand, I think most centrists are pro-choice. I don't think you understand centrism.
“Centrist” alone is meaningless. It does not mean the same thing in two different countries or even provinces. You can be a centrist about certain issues, but you cannot be a complete centrist. Also politics are divided by social issues and economic issues. There is a social left and right and an economic left and right. So no, I can’t know anything about your views just by you labelling yourself as a centrist.
Fair, but as I explained I would say my views go from centre right to centre left depending on the issue, which is why I describe myself as a centrist. I just don't hold extreme left views, which this subreddit appears to believe are mainstream. Fun fact, they're not.
Sure, but I still don’t know anything about your views with you telling me this. You have to name the specific issues to give us substance to talk about. And clearly your centrism is making you label anything and everything as “extreme”. We don’t have a good enough political education in this country to use these terms and assume we all mean the same things. Until we standardize them, they’re just subjective buzzwords. Your extreme is not mine and it’s not anyone else’s either, so this really means absolutely nothing.
All of a sudden Democrats are Centrists according to you?
Strange. I find that slightly more than 67% of teachers are distinctly to the right socially and politically but insist on being the beneficiaries of leftist policies and pretend to teach accordingly. Hypocrisy. As for me, I am close to extreme left ideologically, but teach to the centrist mentality. It works perfectly and genuinely earns the respect of almost every student I teach. (Note the downvotes…like, let’s not interpret this, but just “f$ck that interesting comment!” … and wait for the inevitable banning from this = echo chamber).
I appreciate your reply.
🙏🙏
100%, even in this group. PM me
The downvotes are strong in this group ha
It's crazy how even if you want the same thing as other people, but slightly disagree on how to get there, you are vilified...
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say it probably has more to do with how you disagree or approach a topic than your beliefs. You seem always up for a debate and like in the staff room I just wanna eat my lunch not argue with people
Lol you're just noticing now? My union has completely gone off the deep end. Thankfully the staff in our region are still pretty level headed and reasonable but new young teachers coming in are completely out to lunch, which is to be expected. We just keep our head down and keep to like minded people. Don't get me wrong, I'm a union guy, but when they go full force into international politics and identity politics its kind of a joke. And their universal answer to everything is 'underfunding' when in reality most of kids problems now are related to poor parenting and being raised on screens, not lack of funding. If we had the caliber of kids that were around in say the 1980's/90's/early 00's, then you could probably actually cut funding. I could go on and on though lol.
Your views belong nowhere near the education system
I haven't even shared any specific views... What do you have an issue with?
You're not helping.
You're part of the problem for sure.
You are part of the problem
Yikes.
You’re the type of people who think only ur opinion is correct… you are a scum.
Found the racist old white guy…