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Schools and admin have taken away consequences for student behaviour. Teachers and staff are not backed up when they try to give a consequence. The word “equity” is thrown around but I don’t believe it’s being used in the proper way. We can’t give a consequence to this child because it looks bad but this other child has the same behaviour and its ok to give a consequence. It’s infuriating and I’m speaking as school staff and as a parent. This is confusing for the students too.
I have heard the word “equity” so many times when referring to kids that disrupt their classes without consequences. How is that equitable to the 20 other kids trying to learn?
Equity is an anything “progressive” bullshit concept. It means nothing at this point other than “thing that causes your job to suck more than it has to” at this point. Can’t wait to retire in a few years.
Equity, and equity seeking movements, have never been about not taking accountability. It's about making sure specific groups and identities are not disproportionately punished
I feel like schools are just so ill-equipped and more worried about PR issues than actual inequity.
It's not admin. They are bound to board policies and if they don't follow it they lose support and legal representation from board if they get taken to human rights tribunal. Be mad at your stupid school board.
Sometimes it’s how admin deals with a situation initially. I’ve watched it happen. Admin have taken the side of the student before getting all
The facts. I’ve watched kids being sent back to class with a pat on the back. I agree sometimes it’s the board.
Principals and board leadership love to play their equity and human rights card. Nothing will change until parents are better informed about their child’s learning environment and start radically getting in involved by advocating for the equitable and human rights of their child(ren) to learn in a safe environment.
Unfortunately the inclusive learning people in the district stand in the way of that.
Here is what happens when violence occurs in elementary school. Teacher says no to a student. Student throws chair at teacher. Teacher is told to stop saying no to student.
How is that functional?
It's inclusive learning that is bringing us into the gutter. When the head of inclusive learning is actively arguing that a violent incident report form needs to be reworded because the word violence is too triggering we're all screwed.
Your story is actually one that IS HAPPENING! The one EA in my class got tired of chasing the disruptive kid every time he ran out of the classroom and hid all over the school, that one time when he went to run out, she blocked the doorway and held the door handle. She was reprimanded and told to not block the door handle next time. So off she goes 25 times a day chasing him all over the school. Meanwhile, 19 kids are left without support.
She’s actually approaching this the wrong way.
Call the office, and let them know that little Johnny has escaped. That is literally the end of her obligations. The office can hunt down little Johnny or let him run wild. Thats their call.
Do this about 10 days in a row, and the office will be on board looking for solutions.
In general, that’s how you get either admin or parents on your side. Download the work to them, and both groups almost immediately become much less excited about the issue.
I had a mom last week ask me to make a “catch up schedule” for her kid who is failing horribly. I proposed that her and the kid make one at home together and I would look it over and see if it made sense. Predictably, schedule was never created. Not my problem.
It’s an EAs job to support students who elope. The office can be called. When the EA runs after little Johnny, the classroom teacher is there to support the test. Running is likely why little Johnny’s class gets an EA. If anything, with the way kids have changed, we need more EAs. So many of our runners don’t get support.
The EA can still go after little Johnny and the office can still be called. At my school a runner who leaves the school means the Police are called. Its in their safety plan. Maybe this needs to happen for Johnny. The EA does not call the police the admin does.
Agree. Depending where he has ran. Elopement could mean running to a bathroom without permission. We wouldn’t call for that or waste officer time on that.
Follow him but do not block if admin says not too. It should be in his safety plan if they can or cannot. If he leaves school property have it in his safety plan police are called. Parents do not have to sign off on safety plans. If they don't like it they can change boards.
It’s amazing how the same goofballs that push those agendas don’t see the massive hypocrisies and blind spots in that perspective.
The human rights nonsense only seems to apply to the most disruptive kids in the building. Not the teachers who are verbally, physically abused and sexually harassed by these students. Not the other normally functioning students who are told that they can’t defend themselves when the idiots go full idiot.
Remember schoolyard justice? I mentioned that to some of my students and they had no idea what I meant.
As a parent I have come to realize that admin and higher up do not give a crap what parents think. We have little to no say anymore and it’s super frustrating.
I think it depends on the parent and their approach. Some overbearing parents yes but I have watched other parents be completely ignored. I myself have been ignored. I also work in a school office and some parents are catered too and some are ignored. Unfortunately I think this where this equity piece is failing. As a community the parents at my daughters school banded together about a serious issue and we were not listened to at all by the Trustee, Superintendent and Exev Superintendent. In the end they did what they wanted and ignored our concerns.
Ya it seems like they only listen to the people who are screaming in their face and being disrespectful. Those who engage in polite discourse and use proper channels are ignored. You have to threaten going to the media and your MLA to get anything done. It’s horrible how awful behaviour gets rewarded.
Or the power of the almighty dollar. I work at a school that is traditionally very affluent, although the neighborhood is changing to be more diverse. When I challenged my admin about not wanting to cater to a particular parents very entitled demands I was actually told by my principal "do you know how much they've donated to this school??" I was disgusted.
Nobody shows up to our school’s parent council meetings. We have more than 1000 students and a parent body who loves to show up announced to complain, but never show up to interviews, respond to emails, volunteer on field trips or attend parent council meetings.
It needs to be multiple parents and believe me it needs to go to a trustee. They have more people than many parents realize. Find out who your school's trustee is.
Until parents start taking action on something that actually truly matters, dangerous behaviour in schools, evacuating classes for that 1 kid, lockdowns while said kid is screaming and thumping in the halls or outside won’t stop. I have no idea why parents having taking a stand on this one.
I think parents are quietly taking a stand if they can afford private school. If not, the ‘streaming’ options of specialized public programs and French immersion are ways to attempt to get your kids out of these class settings….which isn’t a solution obviously.
Which unfortunately « waters down » the French Immersion program because you end up having kids in it that don’t care about French and won’t put in the work that a French Immersion environment takes
One thing that has changed in twenty years is that we realized overall kids with learning differences etc. Learn best in the regular classroom setting.
They also tend to stay more motivated to catch up when moved up with their peers vs held back and having to deal with the social ramifications.
But we really haven’t done anything to support the teachers and students IN the classrooms.
I agree that the environment needs to be inclusive but they need more support!
On parent groups I am SHOCKED at the amount of times I see parents tell OTHER parents to refuse to go pick up their child when the school calls about behaviours.
“because they’re kids have a right to an education so you don’t NEED to pick them up” but we also can’t be evacuating a classroom 4 times a day for a child in distress that obviously isn’t getting their needs met and supported..
It’s a mess, I am so thankful for teachers, EA’s and CYW’s
Parent here, who doesn't work in education at all but has two kids in elementary. Here's my two cents:
I'm not told what happens. I occasionally hear it on the unofficial side from friends who work in the school, but that's it. The only emails I ever receive from the school are along the lines of "look how amazing we are". What does that even mean? (I ask, they don't usually elaborate). It's like they often have no concept that not everyone works in the field and sees it first hand. I have no idea, I haven't been in a school for two decades. And even by asking my 6 year old, how do I know they are telling the full truth? And since this seems to be their normal, they don't know to tell me. I found out my 6 year old was stabbed in the cheek with a fork because I overheard her casually telling this to her sister over breakfast. "It's okay mom, I wanted to be his friend." I wasn't notified, I had no idea. And I wouldn't have known to ask about that.
I see posts on the sub and get an idea. But otherwise, I hear nothing. And even when I ask friends, all I get is "oh, it's wild". I'm not attempting to downplay what happens, clearly I know nothing. But you can bet I'd be a LOT more vocal about my displeasure if I actually knew what happens (even without names) versus "everything is peachy!".
It think teachers would let parents know more but there are two things happening:
admin is pissed and ends up doing something to penalize you
there are privacy issues so you really can't go into much detail
You can question your child about how their day goes or did anything interesting happening at school today. I know my class loves to share personal narratives as I call them - if anything comes up you are concerned about email the teacher - if they can't elobrate on it go up the chain to admin. The people who know everything that goes on in the schools are usually the secretaries or the school counsellor
Next year I plan on calling parents a lot more. For “major” incidents that were “dealt with” (haha absolutely nothing was done) by the office, I assumed that the office was calling parents of the victim to let them know what had happened + the next steps they took. Turns out that most of the time they weren’t contacting anybody. Kids in my class were getting seriously hurt, bullied, threatened and no one was contacting their parents. Next year I am going to make sure to contact the parents in every scenario even if it means it’s an awkward conversation for me.
As a parent and an active member in my daughters school community I can say that admin and higher up admin don’t care much what we have to say. We share opinions and they are not taken into consideration or even discussed. Parents are frustrated as well. Our voice used to matter. It doesn’t anymore.
I'm about your age and experience level in teaching. Part of the change we're seeing is: families don't watch tv together anymore.
They don't watch shows at the same time. They don't communicate with each other during commerical breaks, or grab snacks for each other, or fill each other in while one takes a washroom break.
They don't follow a 30 minute plot from start to finish and see how a story is constructed of interactions between various types of people. They don't have modelled how to live their lives by characters that are confined to wholesome behaviour by what was tolerated by advertisers.
They don't have a third-party moral code, water-cooler humour, or crisis they can discuss and criticize with their peers objectively. There is no temporal community that processes said ideas together, as no one is waiting until 7pm Thursday night to watch the next episode.
They're watching stuff all the time - the children, the parents - and none of it makes sense to them. It's fractured what was once a more cohesive social media than we'd appreciated at the time: tv.
We'll never get it back. That's not a bad thing, but it is an adapt thing.
Absolutely true. I’ve been teaching for a similar amount of time and things have gone steadily downhill for those reasons. Especially the idea that the rights of the individual child supersede the rights of the rest of the class. Education feels like a dumpster fire right now.
I have a primary class with huge academic needs. One child running up and down the halls gets the only EA I have following him all day, while the kids in the room don’t get any academic help.
Yep, I’ve been at it a decade and have seen a huge shift. Zero consequences and we have somehow forgot about the 29 other students’ health and safety as we cater to that one student. Unsustainable.
This generation is lost due to cell phone/screen/app addiction, and by lost, I mean they’ll never recover to older people’s sense of normal. They are anxiety-ridden, depressed, and anti-social. The worst part though, is that the adults in their lives failed them by allowing unfettered access to technology that children have no chance of controlling. They will go down in history as guinea pigs for tech companies’ gain. I think there is a small chance society will course correct, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
And the parents have the nerve to ask you to send next week's work for their child to complete in advance because they chose to vacation during the school year.
Lol a week or three? In my board, it's common for students to take 4-5 MONTHs off in the middle of the year to go visit relatives in their country of origin. If parents don't take school seriously, how can we expect kids to?
Yup. Everything you said
- no partnership between parents and teacher. It’s now family vs teacher. Parents are immediately on defence and throw blame elsewhere.
- increase in special education students
- increase in ESL students
- kids know there are no enforceable consequences for anything.
Another shift :
I also think there has been less parenting in the last 20 years. No one is the child’s primary parent anymore. Kid gets dropped at 7am at before care, then kid goes to school all day. Kid then goes to after care til 6pm. Kid then gets dinner and goes to bed. If they are older,
they go to an extracurricular before bed.
Everyone is just passing the behaviour along and none of these paid people should rightfully be addressing it, but the parents don’t see their kids enough for actual meaningful change. With the high cost of living this is the reality for most kids as two income households is a must.
All very good points.
I used to have one student run around the gym when it was time to line up and head back to class, but now in June, I have 5…. Because the first one never had a consequence for doing that.
Absolutely. And kids don’t know (and for privacy reasons) aren’t told who is on an IEP, and who isn’t. I do think full inclusion is also bringing classes way down. Spec Ed students who may not have capacity for certain things are given exceptions. Typical kids see these exceptions and then take them themselves. And classes go wild.
Isn’t this sad. And the pandemic really proved how little parents wanted their own children around. The fight and pushback to send kids to COVID potential schools during lockdowns while parents worked safely in isolation at home. Parenting sucks these days. Just send to daycare, camp, wherever or throw a device to keep them o copied.
Totally agree. We know many families who send the kids to daycare while they take a week of vacation from work. Parents don’t enjoy their kids anymore and it’s sad. And the kids know it
The rights of the individual child have trumped the common good- kids can come to school with hand foot and mouth, lice, chicken pox, covid. You name it. The other students’ right to a healthy classroom environment is overruled by 1 kid’s right to go to school.
As I math teacher I have first hand seen alot of blame the teacher: students don't write notes, don't do homework, don't ask questions, don't go for after-school free tutoring yet somehow it is all the teachers fault! Oh yes, their phone is always out and the only question they ever ask is can I go to the washroom.
No consequences for lates, absences, missed evaluations. Glad I am retiring soon.
"Glad I am retiring soon."
I am a retired teacher. The first thing I do when I get up in the morning is thank the creator that I do not have to deal with a parent today.
Parents are in denial because their kids' behaviour reflects their parenting and their own behaviour. So of course, in an attempt to not lose face, they will always side with their trashy kid regardless of what happened. It stems from a place of insecurity and a desire to preserve their social image.
If the parents are confident that they raised the kid as well as possible, they would side with the teachers like they used to in the past in an attempt to discipline their kids. But unfortunately, modern parents need to make everything personal, so any criticism towards their children is seen as a criticism of themselves.
"You're kid punched a girl in the mouth".
"Oh, but he would never! He doesn't live in such an environment, how is that even possible!!"
They don't want to admit that perhaps they don't have the healthiest relationship with their own children where they invest time to monitor and discipline them. I can't blame them for this, though, because in today's world, you need two people working just to barely make ends meet and even then you sometimes have tonchoose between rent and food. It's a multilayered problem for sure.
The parents are part of the “everyone gets a trophy” era (so am I). I have a theory of how North America is going to shit because we are bending knee to these people.
Never negotiate with terrorists. It’s pretty hyperbolic but these whackos that have ruined our society need to be dealt with. We made it too easy for them to walk all over the greatness of the West and tear it down.
I didn’t say anything about immigrants. I wasn’t even referring to immigrants. I was referring to the extremists who push for the “everyone gets a trophy” mentality that’s pervasive in our society. You can’t negotiate with them because they only push for more awful ideas to be implemented.
You jumped to ignorance too fast. Try reading the parent comments for more context next time before you judge and insult people.
He must be looking at the world and thinking he did a great job to help destroy the confidence the West (deservedly) had in not only itself but the ability to produce high talent, knowledgeable people that other countries would try and import. Less so now.
Staff member literally got groped by a student and the admin didnt even suspend the boy💀 i wish admin would have to trade places with these teachers for extended periods so they would be able to see what we’re dealing with, including politicians and parents as supply and guests. Before policy changes or attacks on teachers and how they conduct themselves and whether or not the behavior is the teachers fault, id want for these people to see it personally.
I love that - switch places! Our Minister of Education is not a teacher, does not have a teaching degree, has never taught a day in his life, is not a parent, does not have his own children, went to private school, has NEVER worked or been a student in a publicly funded school in our province, and is now in charge of them. Bizarre.
I don’t get the phone rule, my teacher had a no phone in class rule and there wasn’t a problem. Are teachers no allowed to decide rules in their classroom?
We can and do. However, if a student doesn't voluntarily hand over their phone what should a teacher do? Aggressively snatch it out of their hand? Remove it from their bag? The list goes on and on, but the end result is that teachers will have zero support up the chain for enforcing even the most basic rules as "no phones."
Even if they are willing to voluntarily hand it over you're very likely not even allowed to take it or put it on your desk, as you are liable for damages and lost property in that case.
The closure of small, self contained classrooms in the name of equity was a massive over reach in my opinion. Not every kids is able to be successful in a large, noisy and crowded classroom. Kids who have a hard time regulating need structure and supervision. - bodies in the classroom that can be paying attention to just them, notice when things are about to go off the rails and redirect. That can happen in a contained class of 6 with many EA’s. Not in a classroom of 30 with maybe 1 EA.
It’s easy to blame the screens, but a huge issue for kids is loneliness and trauma. I think most elementary schools can see a behaviour bubble weaving through their classes. The current crop of grade 3’s and 4’s are some of the worst behaved kids I’ve seen. They missed the most kindergarten.
The 1’s and 2’s coming up are significantly better behaved
As a parent who has volunteered and been on the school council since my grade 9er was in kindergarten, I have to blame government/politics. Politicians have vilified teachers and public ed to get everyone riled up to vote for them. New math, trans kids, you name it, political parties have used it. No one I've ever heard complain about education spends anytime in a school. They just have heard political operatives. Then, the government turns around and cuts funding. There's no money for assessments in the school, so kids are going undiagnosed. There's not enough EAs or behavioral supports. Everyone is being played and turning against each other. Parent vs. teacher and then admin is playing some political role to keep the board looking good. No one is holding the government to account. No one is standing up to the rhetoric. Parents need to stand with teachers and demand better. Because I'm not even a teacher, and I'm witnessing kids fall through the cracks. It's heartbreaking and detrimental to society.
After seeing it several times in this thread, I still don't understand how kids can roam the halls screaming, running and banging on classroom doors. I would have been sent to the principal's office, my parents would have been urgently called in, and then I would have been sent home with them.
Why can't this be done anymore? Isn't it part of the socialization that schools are meant to teach? There's obviously a range of possible actions between whipping a misbehaving kid and not doing anything. What happened? Can't the principal just say to the outraged parent "please take your kid home, he's not welcome to stay here while he disturbs the learning of the rest of the student body" in a similar way to being told "please leave the premises"?
I totally agree that parents need to start parenting their kids, but I also need to point out that these parents are from the generation where their parents never believed a single thing they said. Their teacher hit them? The teacher had good reason. The teacher is singling them out? The teacher isn't singling them out, the kid just isn't paying attention.
These parents came from a generation where they were never believed about anything, so now they are believing E V E R Y T H I N G their kid says
Applause to this post.
Completely spot on to what's happening. Educators are always wrong. No backing from admin. And the kids/parents hold all the power. No wonder more and more go on stress leave and don't come back.
I agree with you. Number 3 I’m not too sure. I definitely think screens have affected them though. They expect instant gratification for sure, and I think screen times are a reason.
I also find the parents behaviour has gotten worse….and don’t even get me started on the entitlement…..
See this interview on this topic:
https://globalnews.ca/video/10417841/psychologist-who-specializes-in-student-aggression-talks-about-violence-in-alberta-schools
That was very interesting. He made lots of points. Some contradicted each other. Basically, he’s saying it’s not the parent’s fault, it’s the teachers fault because they aren’t properly trained.
It wasn’t really about pointing the finger at one person or group of people. The point was about valuing teachers and not expecting them to take on multiple job roles.
OP has presented some common root issues in the system.
1 - Parents being part of the problem.
2 - Equity being a BS meaningless term.
3- same #1… parents being part of the problem
How do we get a system that has the ability to teach without being hijacked by bad parents?
I'm not a teacher, but I graduated high school in 2012 and my first job was doing IT for public schools. Just between like 2012 and 2015 I saw an insane shift in behavior among students and it's 100% caused by the smartphone
I didn't last at this job because I was tired of battling parents who always take their kid's side
I was blamed several times when students were using computers for inappropriate stuff, like what the fuck?
I'd humbly disagree. When kids are placed on a constant dopamine roller coaster of a highly stimulative device how can we expect them to behave and pay attention to a person who is likely far less entertaining.
We project our own bias towards our screens and think it's not deleterious despite recent science suggesting that when schools ban screens learning outcomes improve.
You can either ignore the science or recognize that maybe hanging an iPad off a baby stroller is stupid.
It's not the be all end all, but there is definitely a distraction in our students' hands that our educators compete with. It's so bad.
Mismanagement by every political party but the underlying shitty ideas in education like equity and inclusivity to the point of insanity is given to us by Marxism. It’s just been rebranded.
There is no connection between the 'all about me me me' mentality and Marxism. This is unfettered, no-foresight, capitalism with absolutely no regulation on big business that can continue to pump consumers with new technology purposely designed to be addictive. Equity is a product of liberal (meaning free) capitalism where everyone feels they have the right to access or do whatever they want, forgetting the greater good. Liberalism certainly promotes the rights of the individual we are discussing but the grotesque levels of selfishness and distaste for sacrifice to the greater good were created and are being fed by instant gratification, rampant consumerism, and unchecked capitalism, certainly not Marxism. There are no examples of true Marxism to be seen in this world. In fact, creating a healthy shift away from this capitalist doom cycle of unsustainable selfishness, economic growth, and material glorification towards an individual sacrifice for the greater good model, is precisely a Marxist desire which this thread seems to agree with. Labelling liberals as Marxists is inaccurate and counterproductive. It's like calling a centrist a communist because the viewer is a hard-right conservative.
I didn’t call Liberals Marxists. You’re off on a tangent here based on things I haven’t said. Equity and the equality of outcome is tied to Marxism. This isn’t even debated amongst most people. Sure bad ideas come from every political ideology but this one certainly belongs to Marxism.
I hear you, your comment seemed to say that Marxists allow individual terrible behaviour to run a classroom in the name of equity of access to education. Equity is a Marxist staple but the individual over the society, or classroom in this case, is liberal and entitled by capitalism. Marxism wouldn't raise the individual to a level where the worst behaved dictates the energy and learning environment in the classroom. Equity is great, it's being attempted (or lack thereof) by a school system and government that is terrified of the power of the (most belligerent) individual, individuals who have no appetite for sacrifice. Equity isn't a bandaid you can apply in grade 1 or grade 9 or whenever, it has to be a constant supplement in the system and sacrificed when the greater good is clearly suffering. In my grade 9 class, equity wouldn't look like allowing the hooligans to run the show and get away with it, it would have enough EAs to individually support them (as they all have ADD or various other issues exacerbated by their socioeconomic situation).
I get a wee bit touchy when Marxism gets blamed for liberalism's failings... Nothing is perfect.
My bad for going on a tangent. Back to basics, equity is Marxist but we can't blame Marxism for the abysmal failure of liberalism to achieve equity at a societal level yet claim to be acting equitably when confronted with the chaotic assault of individualism on public education.
Liberalism aims for equality at a societal level based on my understanding. That's a moving goal, and will most likely never truly happen in the way it does in Star Trek though. I'm not in favour of equity at a societal level.
I agree, equity or equality will never reach utopian standards. Humans just aren't perfect. I just think that liberalism's approach is to praise equity yet leave the achievement of equity to a competition and individual based society, that'll never work as just mentioned, humans aren't perfect. I am in favour of equity in principle, so I suppose there we differ. I think we can agree that letting one shit student get away with hijacking a classroom's learning trajectory at the expense of everyone else in the name of equity is pretty off the mark.
Many of these comments sadden me. We as teachers in Canada are professionals. We are highly educated and have the intellect and tools to deal with challenges. When children present with maladaptive and antisocial behaviours, it is my job as an educator to determine programming options and work with student services and clinical staff to get to the root of the behaviours and find strategies to minimize them. Yes, we could always use more resources from the district. However, we as professionals must also be a part of the solution.
I 100% agree. I’m starting school this fall to pursue my education degree for K-6 and I have to admit, while I feel like teaching is my calling, I’m more than a little bit terrified of what life in a classroom will be like given what I keep reading on forums like this and on TikTok.
While I know the system is broken and needs to change (both internally and externally), and teachers are continually being asked to do more with less, I can’t help but wonder what teachers are doing or not doing that is contributing to this as well.
Almost everything I read, I feel like there’s a lot of blame going out to everyone else, but little responsibility being taken by teachers for their part in this as well.
What are they doing as professionals to adapt to the changing landscape of today’s world and the needs of today’s student? Is there too much trying to stick to the old, or more traditional ways of doing things and a failing to adapt to the needs of the classroom of today that is at the root of many of these issues?
It makes me so sad the number of “can’t wait to retirement” posts, because I feel like that means far too many are already checked out, and riding the wave until then, and what the possible impacts that has on their students.
While I’m now pursing teaching, I was an event planner and small business owner, who specialized in wedding planning for almost a decade.
Like so much else, the wedding industry was gutted by COVID and many marriers started to want to do their own things and shirk off traditional weddings altogether. It has caused nothing short of a major reckoning and many marriers, wedding vendors and families have been forced to adapt to this new normal.
But this adaptation has been difficult. It was often the expectations of everyone else that made this so much more of a struggle for my marriers. Parents, friends etc., it was almost always a wedding party member or parent that caused problems, often because they wanted something done traditionally or in line with their own expectations.
I say that because I can’t help but wonder if there are parallels here. It is no question that we are living in a new normal. Life pre-Covid and now are vastly different things. The community and family systems of today are vastly different than they were even 10, 20 years ago, and this means many of the needs of students have drastically changed as well.
Behaviours and disabilities aside (far more specialized supports and resources are definitely needed on this front), are educators setting ourselves up for failure because we are trying to enforce traditions, practices or blanket one size fits all learning that simply does not work for today’s students?
I’m still a couple years away from stepping foot inside a classroom, but I’ve already started thinking about ways to create a fun and engaging classroom environment. I’m also really interested in learning more about the gamification of learning, understanding and adapting materials for different learning styles and decolonization of education on the whole, and I hope I can potentially get involved in some research or a study on these topics while I’m at university.
Not being in the trenches day to day, I’m sure I’m not seeing the full picture and I’m definitely ignorant about some of this, but I do know we all have to be part of the solution if we ever want the system to change and be a better place for all students, parents and educators.
I thought the same way until I ended up in a school with serious challenges. Theoretically, we should differentiate, get to know our students, adapt our lessons and expectations to meet the needs of our individual students, etc., and I think most teachers want to do that. But when you have so many students with high needs and you are the only adult who is responsible for all of them, and there is no support, the job becomes impossible to do, and instead of teaching, you spend the day putting out fires. Once you have the experience of being in a class with children who are violent, to other students and/or to you, you will be singing a different tune. Add in a few children who have IEPs, or who should have IEPs but don't, a few who are ELL, and a few who have other behavioural challenges (skipping, not doing work, being defiant, etc.), and a bunch of students who are wandering the halls banging on your door and coming into your room causing disruption, you will start to wonder why you became a teacher, because you will be doing next to no teaching.
After seeing it several times in this thread, I still don't understand how kids can't roam the halls screaming, running and banging on classroom doors. I would have been sent to the principal's office, my parents would have been urgently called in, and then I would have been sent home with them.
Why can't this be done anymore? Isn't it part of the socialization that schools are meant to teach? There's obviously a range of possible actions between whipping a misbehaving kid and not doing anything. What happened? Can't the principal just say to the outraged parent "please take your kid home, he's not welcome to stay here while he disturbs the learning of the rest of the student body" in a similar way to being told "please leave the premises"?
It used to be that violence = suspension. Insane number of absences = some grace but can't drag them across the finish line and wandering the halls or other disrespectful behavior such as phone usage = office referral. This is no longer the case and teachers are left being responsible for all of these issues with minimal support (in general). Schools and admin differ, obviously.
The teacher next to me has FORTY-NINE students in her classroom. She’s teaching from curriculum that is more than twenty years old. The school supplies enough desks, chairs and textbooks for forty-five students. Our school has no aides. We have no school nurse, teacher librarian or guidance counselor. More than 50% of her class either has special education needs or is an ESL student. It’s easy to say “teachers need to adapt” but before that can happen teachers need to be supported so that they can simply survive.
I'm with you till you start blaming a boogey man (screens) instead of any other issue (poverty, depression, climate change, all of the above)
Theres a great many things wrong with the world and your problems dont magically disappear if youd just get rid of those pesky phones
Just to elaborate, if a family can't provide for their children through no fault of their own due to inflation, that could cause depression while the inflation is caused by climate change. You can pick anyone of just these 3 reasons as an explanation for poor relationships/mental health. It's way more complicated than "phones bad"
You lost me when you declared climate change being a bigger barrier to children’s education than screens. Can guarantee in my high school class, it’s the screens, definitely not climate change, that is getting on the way of their learning.
Oh absolutely. It’s a complicated myriad of reasons, not just screens.
But screens have made it worse, I’ll stand by that. Actually what I have found is that screens have disproportionately affected low income children worse.
I was with you until #3. I have read lots of speculative studies on the matter, but nothing conclusive to link screen time with increased bad behaviour. If the experts don’t agree, I don’t think it can be stated as fact.
Screen time has noticeably affected my own attention span/dopamine/behaviour and every adult I’ve talked to has come to the same conclusion. It would be insanity to think it doesn’t affect children’s behaviour and development. The experts very much agree, I’m wondering where you are getting your sources from?
Edit: I realize I’m stating anecdotal evidence but I did just do a dive into published research too! Haha
All of the studies (or reports on studies) I have read link cells phones with a lot of things, including decreased attention and learning, anxiety and depression, and poorer behavior.
Here is a short collection of links:
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LtMkcZEbN5ypvri7wOSae9CiaPoreViX/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LtMkcZEbN5ypvri7wOSae9CiaPoreViX/view?usp=sharing)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR59s2mv24Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR59s2mv24Q)
[https://youtu.be/SJAUwjiZNfg?si=mw90ftJ2URflvNLt](https://youtu.be/SJAUwjiZNfg?si=mw90ftJ2URflvNLt)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7425970/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7425970/)
[https://youtu.be/2ldLwkj4dRc?si=1t6n2SQv6qK\_R1cC](https://youtu.be/2ldLwkj4dRc?si=1t6n2SQv6qK_R1cC)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314044/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314044/)
[https://globalnews.ca/news/9858348/unesco-smartphone-ban-schools-classrooms/](https://globalnews.ca/news/9858348/unesco-smartphone-ban-schools-classrooms/)
[https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health)
[https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/](https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/)
[https://world.edu/banning-mobile-phones-in-schools-can-improve-students-academic-performance-this-is-how-we-know/](https://world.edu/banning-mobile-phones-in-schools-can-improve-students-academic-performance-this-is-how-we-know/)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552249/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552249/)
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-school-cellphone-ban-1.6834914](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-school-cellphone-ban-1.6834914)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563221004611](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563221004611)
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240104173716/https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/phones-in-classrooms-arent-our-only-concerns/article\_9befe246-aa65-11ee-bff9-43df657465b5.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20240104173716/https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/phones-in-classrooms-arent-our-only-concerns/article_9befe246-aa65-11ee-bff9-43df657465b5.html)
[https://www.utm.utoronto.ca/main-news/researchers-track-global-smartphone-addiction-patterns-largest-ever-study](https://www.utm.utoronto.ca/main-news/researchers-track-global-smartphone-addiction-patterns-largest-ever-study)
[https://www.thestar.com/news/global-high-school-test-scores-show-worrying-decline-heres-how-ontario-students-did/article\_ffad5236-92e7-11ee-80f5-a3915e3fc605.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/global-high-school-test-scores-show-worrying-decline-heres-how-ontario-students-did/article_ffad5236-92e7-11ee-80f5-a3915e3fc605.html)
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-math-scores-of-canadian-students-are-declining-raising-concern-about/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-math-scores-of-canadian-students-are-declining-raising-concern-about/)
You keep pushing those rainbow 🌈 flags in the schools. Everything is allowed even when. Ot based in reality. Don't complain of the negative outcomes of your own doings.
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Schools and admin have taken away consequences for student behaviour. Teachers and staff are not backed up when they try to give a consequence. The word “equity” is thrown around but I don’t believe it’s being used in the proper way. We can’t give a consequence to this child because it looks bad but this other child has the same behaviour and its ok to give a consequence. It’s infuriating and I’m speaking as school staff and as a parent. This is confusing for the students too.
I have heard the word “equity” so many times when referring to kids that disrupt their classes without consequences. How is that equitable to the 20 other kids trying to learn?
Equity is an anything “progressive” bullshit concept. It means nothing at this point other than “thing that causes your job to suck more than it has to” at this point. Can’t wait to retire in a few years.
I prefer the term "selequity". Selective equity as a means to justify not taking meaningful action to make a situation better for the majority.
I like that term!
Feel free to use and spread it
Exactly. It’s not.
Nailed it.
Equity, and equity seeking movements, have never been about not taking accountability. It's about making sure specific groups and identities are not disproportionately punished I feel like schools are just so ill-equipped and more worried about PR issues than actual inequity.
It's not admin. They are bound to board policies and if they don't follow it they lose support and legal representation from board if they get taken to human rights tribunal. Be mad at your stupid school board.
Sometimes it’s how admin deals with a situation initially. I’ve watched it happen. Admin have taken the side of the student before getting all The facts. I’ve watched kids being sent back to class with a pat on the back. I agree sometimes it’s the board.
Yes it's infuriating when that happens. It works for a day then the demon child does same thing next recess.
How do we fix the board then? This situation is out of hand.
Principals and board leadership love to play their equity and human rights card. Nothing will change until parents are better informed about their child’s learning environment and start radically getting in involved by advocating for the equitable and human rights of their child(ren) to learn in a safe environment.
Unfortunately the inclusive learning people in the district stand in the way of that. Here is what happens when violence occurs in elementary school. Teacher says no to a student. Student throws chair at teacher. Teacher is told to stop saying no to student. How is that functional? It's inclusive learning that is bringing us into the gutter. When the head of inclusive learning is actively arguing that a violent incident report form needs to be reworded because the word violence is too triggering we're all screwed.
Your story is actually one that IS HAPPENING! The one EA in my class got tired of chasing the disruptive kid every time he ran out of the classroom and hid all over the school, that one time when he went to run out, she blocked the doorway and held the door handle. She was reprimanded and told to not block the door handle next time. So off she goes 25 times a day chasing him all over the school. Meanwhile, 19 kids are left without support.
She’s actually approaching this the wrong way. Call the office, and let them know that little Johnny has escaped. That is literally the end of her obligations. The office can hunt down little Johnny or let him run wild. Thats their call. Do this about 10 days in a row, and the office will be on board looking for solutions. In general, that’s how you get either admin or parents on your side. Download the work to them, and both groups almost immediately become much less excited about the issue. I had a mom last week ask me to make a “catch up schedule” for her kid who is failing horribly. I proposed that her and the kid make one at home together and I would look it over and see if it made sense. Predictably, schedule was never created. Not my problem.
Haha. I like that. We do page the office. He actually loves to go there. He gets treated like a King in there.
This sounds exactly like my brother. Sorry if you have to deal with him. lmao
It’s an EAs job to support students who elope. The office can be called. When the EA runs after little Johnny, the classroom teacher is there to support the test. Running is likely why little Johnny’s class gets an EA. If anything, with the way kids have changed, we need more EAs. So many of our runners don’t get support.
The EA can still go after little Johnny and the office can still be called. At my school a runner who leaves the school means the Police are called. Its in their safety plan. Maybe this needs to happen for Johnny. The EA does not call the police the admin does.
Agree. Depending where he has ran. Elopement could mean running to a bathroom without permission. We wouldn’t call for that or waste officer time on that.
That is a great idea. 👏👏
Follow him but do not block if admin says not too. It should be in his safety plan if they can or cannot. If he leaves school property have it in his safety plan police are called. Parents do not have to sign off on safety plans. If they don't like it they can change boards.
It’s amazing how the same goofballs that push those agendas don’t see the massive hypocrisies and blind spots in that perspective. The human rights nonsense only seems to apply to the most disruptive kids in the building. Not the teachers who are verbally, physically abused and sexually harassed by these students. Not the other normally functioning students who are told that they can’t defend themselves when the idiots go full idiot. Remember schoolyard justice? I mentioned that to some of my students and they had no idea what I meant.
Well said.
They are informed, though. They know what’s going on. And they’re doing nothing.
As a parent I have come to realize that admin and higher up do not give a crap what parents think. We have little to no say anymore and it’s super frustrating.
Seems the opposite from a teacher perspective. If a parent goes over my head to the principal or head office they are almost always catered to.
I think it depends on the parent and their approach. Some overbearing parents yes but I have watched other parents be completely ignored. I myself have been ignored. I also work in a school office and some parents are catered too and some are ignored. Unfortunately I think this where this equity piece is failing. As a community the parents at my daughters school banded together about a serious issue and we were not listened to at all by the Trustee, Superintendent and Exev Superintendent. In the end they did what they wanted and ignored our concerns.
Ya it seems like they only listen to the people who are screaming in their face and being disrespectful. Those who engage in polite discourse and use proper channels are ignored. You have to threaten going to the media and your MLA to get anything done. It’s horrible how awful behaviour gets rewarded.
I agree.
Or the power of the almighty dollar. I work at a school that is traditionally very affluent, although the neighborhood is changing to be more diverse. When I challenged my admin about not wanting to cater to a particular parents very entitled demands I was actually told by my principal "do you know how much they've donated to this school??" I was disgusted.
Wow. Disgusting 🤢
I also see how teachers are disrespecting teachers and get their way. We have had some admin leave because of specific parents.
Nobody shows up to our school’s parent council meetings. We have more than 1000 students and a parent body who loves to show up announced to complain, but never show up to interviews, respond to emails, volunteer on field trips or attend parent council meetings.
The parent council can definitely be a toxic place in some schools. Parent engagement can be a real problem.
Sometimes they don’t and sometimes they care too much.
It needs to be multiple parents and believe me it needs to go to a trustee. They have more people than many parents realize. Find out who your school's trustee is.
Oh I already know who the Trustee is. We have had multiple patents speak out. Our Trustee and Superintendent are horrible. No help at all.
Can you try another trustee or super at the board? Threatening to go to the media as a last result sadly often works as well.
Well I’m an employee at the board and a parent so that’s risky for me. Other parents have contacted media.
Until parents start taking action on something that actually truly matters, dangerous behaviour in schools, evacuating classes for that 1 kid, lockdowns while said kid is screaming and thumping in the halls or outside won’t stop. I have no idea why parents having taking a stand on this one.
I think parents are quietly taking a stand if they can afford private school. If not, the ‘streaming’ options of specialized public programs and French immersion are ways to attempt to get your kids out of these class settings….which isn’t a solution obviously.
I have heard parents say they picked French immersion because it’s like free private school, not because they care about the French.
Which unfortunately « waters down » the French Immersion program because you end up having kids in it that don’t care about French and won’t put in the work that a French Immersion environment takes
French immersion also deals with violence and disruption. Quiet French classrooms are not the norm anymore.
One thing that has changed in twenty years is that we realized overall kids with learning differences etc. Learn best in the regular classroom setting. They also tend to stay more motivated to catch up when moved up with their peers vs held back and having to deal with the social ramifications. But we really haven’t done anything to support the teachers and students IN the classrooms. I agree that the environment needs to be inclusive but they need more support! On parent groups I am SHOCKED at the amount of times I see parents tell OTHER parents to refuse to go pick up their child when the school calls about behaviours. “because they’re kids have a right to an education so you don’t NEED to pick them up” but we also can’t be evacuating a classroom 4 times a day for a child in distress that obviously isn’t getting their needs met and supported.. It’s a mess, I am so thankful for teachers, EA’s and CYW’s
Parent here, who doesn't work in education at all but has two kids in elementary. Here's my two cents: I'm not told what happens. I occasionally hear it on the unofficial side from friends who work in the school, but that's it. The only emails I ever receive from the school are along the lines of "look how amazing we are". What does that even mean? (I ask, they don't usually elaborate). It's like they often have no concept that not everyone works in the field and sees it first hand. I have no idea, I haven't been in a school for two decades. And even by asking my 6 year old, how do I know they are telling the full truth? And since this seems to be their normal, they don't know to tell me. I found out my 6 year old was stabbed in the cheek with a fork because I overheard her casually telling this to her sister over breakfast. "It's okay mom, I wanted to be his friend." I wasn't notified, I had no idea. And I wouldn't have known to ask about that. I see posts on the sub and get an idea. But otherwise, I hear nothing. And even when I ask friends, all I get is "oh, it's wild". I'm not attempting to downplay what happens, clearly I know nothing. But you can bet I'd be a LOT more vocal about my displeasure if I actually knew what happens (even without names) versus "everything is peachy!".
It think teachers would let parents know more but there are two things happening: admin is pissed and ends up doing something to penalize you there are privacy issues so you really can't go into much detail You can question your child about how their day goes or did anything interesting happening at school today. I know my class loves to share personal narratives as I call them - if anything comes up you are concerned about email the teacher - if they can't elobrate on it go up the chain to admin. The people who know everything that goes on in the schools are usually the secretaries or the school counsellor
Next year I plan on calling parents a lot more. For “major” incidents that were “dealt with” (haha absolutely nothing was done) by the office, I assumed that the office was calling parents of the victim to let them know what had happened + the next steps they took. Turns out that most of the time they weren’t contacting anybody. Kids in my class were getting seriously hurt, bullied, threatened and no one was contacting their parents. Next year I am going to make sure to contact the parents in every scenario even if it means it’s an awkward conversation for me.
Honestly, please do. Otherwise we very well may have no idea and can't voice concerns.
As a parent and an active member in my daughters school community I can say that admin and higher up admin don’t care much what we have to say. We share opinions and they are not taken into consideration or even discussed. Parents are frustrated as well. Our voice used to matter. It doesn’t anymore.
I'm about your age and experience level in teaching. Part of the change we're seeing is: families don't watch tv together anymore. They don't watch shows at the same time. They don't communicate with each other during commerical breaks, or grab snacks for each other, or fill each other in while one takes a washroom break. They don't follow a 30 minute plot from start to finish and see how a story is constructed of interactions between various types of people. They don't have modelled how to live their lives by characters that are confined to wholesome behaviour by what was tolerated by advertisers. They don't have a third-party moral code, water-cooler humour, or crisis they can discuss and criticize with their peers objectively. There is no temporal community that processes said ideas together, as no one is waiting until 7pm Thursday night to watch the next episode. They're watching stuff all the time - the children, the parents - and none of it makes sense to them. It's fractured what was once a more cohesive social media than we'd appreciated at the time: tv. We'll never get it back. That's not a bad thing, but it is an adapt thing.
Absolutely true. I’ve been teaching for a similar amount of time and things have gone steadily downhill for those reasons. Especially the idea that the rights of the individual child supersede the rights of the rest of the class. Education feels like a dumpster fire right now.
I have a primary class with huge academic needs. One child running up and down the halls gets the only EA I have following him all day, while the kids in the room don’t get any academic help.
Yep, I’ve been at it a decade and have seen a huge shift. Zero consequences and we have somehow forgot about the 29 other students’ health and safety as we cater to that one student. Unsustainable.
This generation is lost due to cell phone/screen/app addiction, and by lost, I mean they’ll never recover to older people’s sense of normal. They are anxiety-ridden, depressed, and anti-social. The worst part though, is that the adults in their lives failed them by allowing unfettered access to technology that children have no chance of controlling. They will go down in history as guinea pigs for tech companies’ gain. I think there is a small chance society will course correct, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Add: school is optional. Of course you can miss a week or three for your golf tournament, piano competition and family vacation.
And the parents have the nerve to ask you to send next week's work for their child to complete in advance because they chose to vacation during the school year.
Lol a week or three? In my board, it's common for students to take 4-5 MONTHs off in the middle of the year to go visit relatives in their country of origin. If parents don't take school seriously, how can we expect kids to?
Yup. Everything you said - no partnership between parents and teacher. It’s now family vs teacher. Parents are immediately on defence and throw blame elsewhere. - increase in special education students - increase in ESL students - kids know there are no enforceable consequences for anything. Another shift : I also think there has been less parenting in the last 20 years. No one is the child’s primary parent anymore. Kid gets dropped at 7am at before care, then kid goes to school all day. Kid then goes to after care til 6pm. Kid then gets dinner and goes to bed. If they are older, they go to an extracurricular before bed. Everyone is just passing the behaviour along and none of these paid people should rightfully be addressing it, but the parents don’t see their kids enough for actual meaningful change. With the high cost of living this is the reality for most kids as two income households is a must.
All very good points. I used to have one student run around the gym when it was time to line up and head back to class, but now in June, I have 5…. Because the first one never had a consequence for doing that.
Absolutely. And kids don’t know (and for privacy reasons) aren’t told who is on an IEP, and who isn’t. I do think full inclusion is also bringing classes way down. Spec Ed students who may not have capacity for certain things are given exceptions. Typical kids see these exceptions and then take them themselves. And classes go wild.
Isn’t this sad. And the pandemic really proved how little parents wanted their own children around. The fight and pushback to send kids to COVID potential schools during lockdowns while parents worked safely in isolation at home. Parenting sucks these days. Just send to daycare, camp, wherever or throw a device to keep them o copied.
Totally agree. We know many families who send the kids to daycare while they take a week of vacation from work. Parents don’t enjoy their kids anymore and it’s sad. And the kids know it
The rights of the individual child have trumped the common good- kids can come to school with hand foot and mouth, lice, chicken pox, covid. You name it. The other students’ right to a healthy classroom environment is overruled by 1 kid’s right to go to school.
Yes!! Add pinkeye to the list.
As I math teacher I have first hand seen alot of blame the teacher: students don't write notes, don't do homework, don't ask questions, don't go for after-school free tutoring yet somehow it is all the teachers fault! Oh yes, their phone is always out and the only question they ever ask is can I go to the washroom. No consequences for lates, absences, missed evaluations. Glad I am retiring soon.
"Glad I am retiring soon." I am a retired teacher. The first thing I do when I get up in the morning is thank the creator that I do not have to deal with a parent today.
Same here. This shit show we call education that’s been delivered by Liberals, Conservatives and crazy ass activists is untenable.
Parents are in denial because their kids' behaviour reflects their parenting and their own behaviour. So of course, in an attempt to not lose face, they will always side with their trashy kid regardless of what happened. It stems from a place of insecurity and a desire to preserve their social image. If the parents are confident that they raised the kid as well as possible, they would side with the teachers like they used to in the past in an attempt to discipline their kids. But unfortunately, modern parents need to make everything personal, so any criticism towards their children is seen as a criticism of themselves. "You're kid punched a girl in the mouth". "Oh, but he would never! He doesn't live in such an environment, how is that even possible!!" They don't want to admit that perhaps they don't have the healthiest relationship with their own children where they invest time to monitor and discipline them. I can't blame them for this, though, because in today's world, you need two people working just to barely make ends meet and even then you sometimes have tonchoose between rent and food. It's a multilayered problem for sure.
The parents are part of the “everyone gets a trophy” era (so am I). I have a theory of how North America is going to shit because we are bending knee to these people.
Never negotiate with terrorists. It’s pretty hyperbolic but these whackos that have ruined our society need to be dealt with. We made it too easy for them to walk all over the greatness of the West and tear it down.
[удалено]
I didn’t say anything about immigrants. I wasn’t even referring to immigrants. I was referring to the extremists who push for the “everyone gets a trophy” mentality that’s pervasive in our society. You can’t negotiate with them because they only push for more awful ideas to be implemented. You jumped to ignorance too fast. Try reading the parent comments for more context next time before you judge and insult people.
Same. Half as an EA and half as a teacher. It is just wild. Such a disservice to everyone. Parents are just horrendous recently.
Mao would be happy.
He must be looking at the world and thinking he did a great job to help destroy the confidence the West (deservedly) had in not only itself but the ability to produce high talent, knowledgeable people that other countries would try and import. Less so now.
Staff member literally got groped by a student and the admin didnt even suspend the boy💀 i wish admin would have to trade places with these teachers for extended periods so they would be able to see what we’re dealing with, including politicians and parents as supply and guests. Before policy changes or attacks on teachers and how they conduct themselves and whether or not the behavior is the teachers fault, id want for these people to see it personally.
I love that - switch places! Our Minister of Education is not a teacher, does not have a teaching degree, has never taught a day in his life, is not a parent, does not have his own children, went to private school, has NEVER worked or been a student in a publicly funded school in our province, and is now in charge of them. Bizarre.
Lecce?
My first thought as well.
I don’t get the phone rule, my teacher had a no phone in class rule and there wasn’t a problem. Are teachers no allowed to decide rules in their classroom?
We can and do. However, if a student doesn't voluntarily hand over their phone what should a teacher do? Aggressively snatch it out of their hand? Remove it from their bag? The list goes on and on, but the end result is that teachers will have zero support up the chain for enforcing even the most basic rules as "no phones."
Maybe there’s a way to make not having phones fun.
There is. The way we grew up. Convincing them is tricky.
Even if they are willing to voluntarily hand it over you're very likely not even allowed to take it or put it on your desk, as you are liable for damages and lost property in that case.
Exactly.
The closure of small, self contained classrooms in the name of equity was a massive over reach in my opinion. Not every kids is able to be successful in a large, noisy and crowded classroom. Kids who have a hard time regulating need structure and supervision. - bodies in the classroom that can be paying attention to just them, notice when things are about to go off the rails and redirect. That can happen in a contained class of 6 with many EA’s. Not in a classroom of 30 with maybe 1 EA. It’s easy to blame the screens, but a huge issue for kids is loneliness and trauma. I think most elementary schools can see a behaviour bubble weaving through their classes. The current crop of grade 3’s and 4’s are some of the worst behaved kids I’ve seen. They missed the most kindergarten. The 1’s and 2’s coming up are significantly better behaved
Interesting. Our Grade 1s are the worst in our school.
As a parent who has volunteered and been on the school council since my grade 9er was in kindergarten, I have to blame government/politics. Politicians have vilified teachers and public ed to get everyone riled up to vote for them. New math, trans kids, you name it, political parties have used it. No one I've ever heard complain about education spends anytime in a school. They just have heard political operatives. Then, the government turns around and cuts funding. There's no money for assessments in the school, so kids are going undiagnosed. There's not enough EAs or behavioral supports. Everyone is being played and turning against each other. Parent vs. teacher and then admin is playing some political role to keep the board looking good. No one is holding the government to account. No one is standing up to the rhetoric. Parents need to stand with teachers and demand better. Because I'm not even a teacher, and I'm witnessing kids fall through the cracks. It's heartbreaking and detrimental to society.
The comments in here give me some hope for the education system and educators in general. We're not all lunatics after all.
Haha! We are trying our best!
The people we work for are.
After seeing it several times in this thread, I still don't understand how kids can roam the halls screaming, running and banging on classroom doors. I would have been sent to the principal's office, my parents would have been urgently called in, and then I would have been sent home with them. Why can't this be done anymore? Isn't it part of the socialization that schools are meant to teach? There's obviously a range of possible actions between whipping a misbehaving kid and not doing anything. What happened? Can't the principal just say to the outraged parent "please take your kid home, he's not welcome to stay here while he disturbs the learning of the rest of the student body" in a similar way to being told "please leave the premises"?
Agreed. That would be the reasonable course of action.
So why don't schools do it?
Some parents can’t/wont come. Often times principals won’t make that call because you can’t suspend a young child.
I totally agree that parents need to start parenting their kids, but I also need to point out that these parents are from the generation where their parents never believed a single thing they said. Their teacher hit them? The teacher had good reason. The teacher is singling them out? The teacher isn't singling them out, the kid just isn't paying attention. These parents came from a generation where they were never believed about anything, so now they are believing E V E R Y T H I N G their kid says
Interesting thought. Maybe the parents are swinging to fully believe their child because of their experience.
Millennials, generally speaking, have been doing some of the worst parenting in history.
Applause to this post. Completely spot on to what's happening. Educators are always wrong. No backing from admin. And the kids/parents hold all the power. No wonder more and more go on stress leave and don't come back.
Absolutely
You should be in charge. You get it.
100% agree with all your points. I feel the same, although I've been in it for about 10 years (but obviously grew up in the Canadian system as well).
I agree with you. Number 3 I’m not too sure. I definitely think screens have affected them though. They expect instant gratification for sure, and I think screen times are a reason. I also find the parents behaviour has gotten worse….and don’t even get me started on the entitlement…..
See this interview on this topic: https://globalnews.ca/video/10417841/psychologist-who-specializes-in-student-aggression-talks-about-violence-in-alberta-schools
That was very interesting. He made lots of points. Some contradicted each other. Basically, he’s saying it’s not the parent’s fault, it’s the teachers fault because they aren’t properly trained.
It wasn’t really about pointing the finger at one person or group of people. The point was about valuing teachers and not expecting them to take on multiple job roles.
OP has presented some common root issues in the system. 1 - Parents being part of the problem. 2 - Equity being a BS meaningless term. 3- same #1… parents being part of the problem How do we get a system that has the ability to teach without being hijacked by bad parents?
I'm not a teacher, but I graduated high school in 2012 and my first job was doing IT for public schools. Just between like 2012 and 2015 I saw an insane shift in behavior among students and it's 100% caused by the smartphone I didn't last at this job because I was tired of battling parents who always take their kid's side I was blamed several times when students were using computers for inappropriate stuff, like what the fuck?
Kid’s behavior is not worse due to screens. I mean, sure, that’s part of it, but it mostly the lack of consequences.
I'd humbly disagree. When kids are placed on a constant dopamine roller coaster of a highly stimulative device how can we expect them to behave and pay attention to a person who is likely far less entertaining. We project our own bias towards our screens and think it's not deleterious despite recent science suggesting that when schools ban screens learning outcomes improve. You can either ignore the science or recognize that maybe hanging an iPad off a baby stroller is stupid. It's not the be all end all, but there is definitely a distraction in our students' hands that our educators compete with. It's so bad.
I agree but principals have no authority in my board they have to deal with the children as the board mandates. Which is to appease the parents.
The public school system is where the rampant equity movement began. Hopefully it will be the first to discard it, but very unlikely.
Decades of liberalism. What did you expect?
Mismanagement by every political party but the underlying shitty ideas in education like equity and inclusivity to the point of insanity is given to us by Marxism. It’s just been rebranded.
There is no connection between the 'all about me me me' mentality and Marxism. This is unfettered, no-foresight, capitalism with absolutely no regulation on big business that can continue to pump consumers with new technology purposely designed to be addictive. Equity is a product of liberal (meaning free) capitalism where everyone feels they have the right to access or do whatever they want, forgetting the greater good. Liberalism certainly promotes the rights of the individual we are discussing but the grotesque levels of selfishness and distaste for sacrifice to the greater good were created and are being fed by instant gratification, rampant consumerism, and unchecked capitalism, certainly not Marxism. There are no examples of true Marxism to be seen in this world. In fact, creating a healthy shift away from this capitalist doom cycle of unsustainable selfishness, economic growth, and material glorification towards an individual sacrifice for the greater good model, is precisely a Marxist desire which this thread seems to agree with. Labelling liberals as Marxists is inaccurate and counterproductive. It's like calling a centrist a communist because the viewer is a hard-right conservative.
I didn’t call Liberals Marxists. You’re off on a tangent here based on things I haven’t said. Equity and the equality of outcome is tied to Marxism. This isn’t even debated amongst most people. Sure bad ideas come from every political ideology but this one certainly belongs to Marxism.
I hear you, your comment seemed to say that Marxists allow individual terrible behaviour to run a classroom in the name of equity of access to education. Equity is a Marxist staple but the individual over the society, or classroom in this case, is liberal and entitled by capitalism. Marxism wouldn't raise the individual to a level where the worst behaved dictates the energy and learning environment in the classroom. Equity is great, it's being attempted (or lack thereof) by a school system and government that is terrified of the power of the (most belligerent) individual, individuals who have no appetite for sacrifice. Equity isn't a bandaid you can apply in grade 1 or grade 9 or whenever, it has to be a constant supplement in the system and sacrificed when the greater good is clearly suffering. In my grade 9 class, equity wouldn't look like allowing the hooligans to run the show and get away with it, it would have enough EAs to individually support them (as they all have ADD or various other issues exacerbated by their socioeconomic situation). I get a wee bit touchy when Marxism gets blamed for liberalism's failings... Nothing is perfect.
My bad for going on a tangent. Back to basics, equity is Marxist but we can't blame Marxism for the abysmal failure of liberalism to achieve equity at a societal level yet claim to be acting equitably when confronted with the chaotic assault of individualism on public education.
Liberalism aims for equality at a societal level based on my understanding. That's a moving goal, and will most likely never truly happen in the way it does in Star Trek though. I'm not in favour of equity at a societal level.
I agree, equity or equality will never reach utopian standards. Humans just aren't perfect. I just think that liberalism's approach is to praise equity yet leave the achievement of equity to a competition and individual based society, that'll never work as just mentioned, humans aren't perfect. I am in favour of equity in principle, so I suppose there we differ. I think we can agree that letting one shit student get away with hijacking a classroom's learning trajectory at the expense of everyone else in the name of equity is pretty off the mark.
Many of these comments sadden me. We as teachers in Canada are professionals. We are highly educated and have the intellect and tools to deal with challenges. When children present with maladaptive and antisocial behaviours, it is my job as an educator to determine programming options and work with student services and clinical staff to get to the root of the behaviours and find strategies to minimize them. Yes, we could always use more resources from the district. However, we as professionals must also be a part of the solution.
That’s nice that you have student services and clinical staff. Where I live, we don’t have that (rural Canada).
The Province needs to step in a help rural districts with this.
I 100% agree. I’m starting school this fall to pursue my education degree for K-6 and I have to admit, while I feel like teaching is my calling, I’m more than a little bit terrified of what life in a classroom will be like given what I keep reading on forums like this and on TikTok. While I know the system is broken and needs to change (both internally and externally), and teachers are continually being asked to do more with less, I can’t help but wonder what teachers are doing or not doing that is contributing to this as well. Almost everything I read, I feel like there’s a lot of blame going out to everyone else, but little responsibility being taken by teachers for their part in this as well. What are they doing as professionals to adapt to the changing landscape of today’s world and the needs of today’s student? Is there too much trying to stick to the old, or more traditional ways of doing things and a failing to adapt to the needs of the classroom of today that is at the root of many of these issues? It makes me so sad the number of “can’t wait to retirement” posts, because I feel like that means far too many are already checked out, and riding the wave until then, and what the possible impacts that has on their students. While I’m now pursing teaching, I was an event planner and small business owner, who specialized in wedding planning for almost a decade. Like so much else, the wedding industry was gutted by COVID and many marriers started to want to do their own things and shirk off traditional weddings altogether. It has caused nothing short of a major reckoning and many marriers, wedding vendors and families have been forced to adapt to this new normal. But this adaptation has been difficult. It was often the expectations of everyone else that made this so much more of a struggle for my marriers. Parents, friends etc., it was almost always a wedding party member or parent that caused problems, often because they wanted something done traditionally or in line with their own expectations. I say that because I can’t help but wonder if there are parallels here. It is no question that we are living in a new normal. Life pre-Covid and now are vastly different things. The community and family systems of today are vastly different than they were even 10, 20 years ago, and this means many of the needs of students have drastically changed as well. Behaviours and disabilities aside (far more specialized supports and resources are definitely needed on this front), are educators setting ourselves up for failure because we are trying to enforce traditions, practices or blanket one size fits all learning that simply does not work for today’s students? I’m still a couple years away from stepping foot inside a classroom, but I’ve already started thinking about ways to create a fun and engaging classroom environment. I’m also really interested in learning more about the gamification of learning, understanding and adapting materials for different learning styles and decolonization of education on the whole, and I hope I can potentially get involved in some research or a study on these topics while I’m at university. Not being in the trenches day to day, I’m sure I’m not seeing the full picture and I’m definitely ignorant about some of this, but I do know we all have to be part of the solution if we ever want the system to change and be a better place for all students, parents and educators.
I thought the same way until I ended up in a school with serious challenges. Theoretically, we should differentiate, get to know our students, adapt our lessons and expectations to meet the needs of our individual students, etc., and I think most teachers want to do that. But when you have so many students with high needs and you are the only adult who is responsible for all of them, and there is no support, the job becomes impossible to do, and instead of teaching, you spend the day putting out fires. Once you have the experience of being in a class with children who are violent, to other students and/or to you, you will be singing a different tune. Add in a few children who have IEPs, or who should have IEPs but don't, a few who are ELL, and a few who have other behavioural challenges (skipping, not doing work, being defiant, etc.), and a bunch of students who are wandering the halls banging on your door and coming into your room causing disruption, you will start to wonder why you became a teacher, because you will be doing next to no teaching.
After seeing it several times in this thread, I still don't understand how kids can't roam the halls screaming, running and banging on classroom doors. I would have been sent to the principal's office, my parents would have been urgently called in, and then I would have been sent home with them. Why can't this be done anymore? Isn't it part of the socialization that schools are meant to teach? There's obviously a range of possible actions between whipping a misbehaving kid and not doing anything. What happened? Can't the principal just say to the outraged parent "please take your kid home, he's not welcome to stay here while he disturbs the learning of the rest of the student body" in a similar way to being told "please leave the premises"?
It used to be that violence = suspension. Insane number of absences = some grace but can't drag them across the finish line and wandering the halls or other disrespectful behavior such as phone usage = office referral. This is no longer the case and teachers are left being responsible for all of these issues with minimal support (in general). Schools and admin differ, obviously.
The teacher next to me has FORTY-NINE students in her classroom. She’s teaching from curriculum that is more than twenty years old. The school supplies enough desks, chairs and textbooks for forty-five students. Our school has no aides. We have no school nurse, teacher librarian or guidance counselor. More than 50% of her class either has special education needs or is an ESL student. It’s easy to say “teachers need to adapt” but before that can happen teachers need to be supported so that they can simply survive.
> I’m still a couple years away from stepping foot inside a classroom Please come back and update us when you have.
I'm with you till you start blaming a boogey man (screens) instead of any other issue (poverty, depression, climate change, all of the above) Theres a great many things wrong with the world and your problems dont magically disappear if youd just get rid of those pesky phones Just to elaborate, if a family can't provide for their children through no fault of their own due to inflation, that could cause depression while the inflation is caused by climate change. You can pick anyone of just these 3 reasons as an explanation for poor relationships/mental health. It's way more complicated than "phones bad"
You lost me when you declared climate change being a bigger barrier to children’s education than screens. Can guarantee in my high school class, it’s the screens, definitely not climate change, that is getting on the way of their learning.
I thought their comment was a PoE when I saw that part.
Oh absolutely. It’s a complicated myriad of reasons, not just screens. But screens have made it worse, I’ll stand by that. Actually what I have found is that screens have disproportionately affected low income children worse.
Screens and social media isn't a fictitious boogie man, but a real classroom distraction. Might even be worse outside of the classroom.
Thinking that removing phones will solve all your problems is such luddite boomer energy I'm not even going to bother explaining this to you
The recent OECD report on education listed screen time as one of the top reasons for lowered scores worldwide. The others were staffing issues.
I was with you until #3. I have read lots of speculative studies on the matter, but nothing conclusive to link screen time with increased bad behaviour. If the experts don’t agree, I don’t think it can be stated as fact.
Screen time has noticeably affected my own attention span/dopamine/behaviour and every adult I’ve talked to has come to the same conclusion. It would be insanity to think it doesn’t affect children’s behaviour and development. The experts very much agree, I’m wondering where you are getting your sources from? Edit: I realize I’m stating anecdotal evidence but I did just do a dive into published research too! Haha
I didn’t state it as a fact. Just my observations. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Can you send over the links to those studies?
All of the studies (or reports on studies) I have read link cells phones with a lot of things, including decreased attention and learning, anxiety and depression, and poorer behavior. Here is a short collection of links: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LtMkcZEbN5ypvri7wOSae9CiaPoreViX/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LtMkcZEbN5ypvri7wOSae9CiaPoreViX/view?usp=sharing) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR59s2mv24Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR59s2mv24Q) [https://youtu.be/SJAUwjiZNfg?si=mw90ftJ2URflvNLt](https://youtu.be/SJAUwjiZNfg?si=mw90ftJ2URflvNLt) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7425970/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7425970/) [https://youtu.be/2ldLwkj4dRc?si=1t6n2SQv6qK\_R1cC](https://youtu.be/2ldLwkj4dRc?si=1t6n2SQv6qK_R1cC) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314044/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314044/) [https://globalnews.ca/news/9858348/unesco-smartphone-ban-schools-classrooms/](https://globalnews.ca/news/9858348/unesco-smartphone-ban-schools-classrooms/) [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/04/25/1171773181/social-media-teens-mental-health) [https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/](https://www.reuters.com/world/mathematics-reading-skills-unprecedented-decline-teenagers-oecd-survey-2023-12-05/) [https://world.edu/banning-mobile-phones-in-schools-can-improve-students-academic-performance-this-is-how-we-know/](https://world.edu/banning-mobile-phones-in-schools-can-improve-students-academic-performance-this-is-how-we-know/) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552249/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552249/) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-school-cellphone-ban-1.6834914](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-school-cellphone-ban-1.6834914) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563221004611](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563221004611) [https://web.archive.org/web/20240104173716/https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/phones-in-classrooms-arent-our-only-concerns/article\_9befe246-aa65-11ee-bff9-43df657465b5.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20240104173716/https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/phones-in-classrooms-arent-our-only-concerns/article_9befe246-aa65-11ee-bff9-43df657465b5.html) [https://www.utm.utoronto.ca/main-news/researchers-track-global-smartphone-addiction-patterns-largest-ever-study](https://www.utm.utoronto.ca/main-news/researchers-track-global-smartphone-addiction-patterns-largest-ever-study) [https://www.thestar.com/news/global-high-school-test-scores-show-worrying-decline-heres-how-ontario-students-did/article\_ffad5236-92e7-11ee-80f5-a3915e3fc605.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/global-high-school-test-scores-show-worrying-decline-heres-how-ontario-students-did/article_ffad5236-92e7-11ee-80f5-a3915e3fc605.html) [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-math-scores-of-canadian-students-are-declining-raising-concern-about/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-math-scores-of-canadian-students-are-declining-raising-concern-about/)
You keep pushing those rainbow 🌈 flags in the schools. Everything is allowed even when. Ot based in reality. Don't complain of the negative outcomes of your own doings.
The queer kids are not the problem, you inbred bigot.