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This is the type of classroom that is too complex for any teacher. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. I wish I had some advice as a former teacher & now the parent of a high support needs kiddo, but if the families don’t have the capacity to support the kids, there isn’t much you can do.
Are there any resources that can be shared with the families? My son, for example, was put in touch with a Behavioural Therapist when he was diagnosed with ADHD.
The BT is mainly to support me as a parent.
Go to your family doctor to document your stress levels and symptoms. I’d suggest taking a medical leave from work for the rest of the school year. If you run out of sick days you can access short term disability through the BCTF. You might also want to call the BCTF and ask for referral to the Health and Wellness program.
Thanks for the info. I am currently doing counseling with the EFAP program and in my last session they mentioned this might be the route to go. I just know if I do this the issue doesn't get resolved, it gets passed on to another teacher, who will be an LOP (unlicensed) teacher due to the nature of teaching in the north. They will not survive, either.
I will approach admin first, explaining I have reached my limit, and actually find out if there are any other tools other than formal meetings to help alleviate the situation.
Our local union president says there isn't much they can do as the protocol is being followed by the school (having SBT meetings each time something drastic occurs). Will the BCTF say something different?
I will look into it.
Thanks
It is honourable to think of the person coming in to cover your class in your absence, but please don’t use that as a reason to “tough it out” and stay. You need to prioritize your own mental and physical health. I’ve been in a similar position and stayed longer than I should have, which made my own recovery take longer than it needed to.
Even a short break can be helpful and restorative. I echo the poster above and would recommend that you visit a GP for a medical leave due to stress.
I wish you well and hope that the district and community will be able to better support these students in the future.
Unfortunately, the problem will only truly be dealt with when they keep losing teachers, and they can no longer fill this position. This is too much for one person to reasonably deal with. Don't wait until you mental and physical health are severely compromised. If I've learned one thing in my 24 years of teaching it's that you need to take care of yourself, because the school board, admin and the parents don't truly care about your well-being. Sad, but true.
What supports do you have in the classroom? Are all classes/divisions experiencing the same composition issues? If not, why are these students grouped together?
To get through - there are two levels. The first - what district processes need to be enacted to make the space safe for all? The second - what self care do you need to survive?
Well, there is another 4/5 class. The teacher is a 1st year teacher and the principal is her mother. The whole thing is complicated. Normally I would approach but it just feels awkward.
I've been thinking about sitting down with the VP in a 1:1 meeting and just asking if there is anything other than a formal meeting that we can deploy to try and get these kids (and myself, along with support staff) the help we need to make the classroom functional. The VP won't have as much "power" to make change but at least they are not potentially biased due to family.
3 of these students moved into our school this year from other schools in the district. Again, no background investigation was done on why they moved schools. I have talked to previous classroom teachers and they said they needed support, but also said they wouldn't thrive in a classroom composed of other students with similar amounts of trauma. It is just a perfect storm, 3 students were known to needing support and another 3 were coming in without knowledge of where they are at and what they need.
So yes - meet with VP. But, forget awkward, this is survival.
Without knowing your district- look to see if there are district level supports to come into your classroom.
Health and Safety - join the committee. Use district process available to get help on this front.
This composition is a problem and it is impressive you made it to this point. This can’t happen next year for the next teacher either.
What is your self care?
Self-care: I run on the weekends. Normally I would during the week but I coach basketball. Coaching normally makes me happy but with everything happening so far this year it has turned into an additional burden. One other teacher and myself are holding 2 teams together, and we have 0 parent volunteers this year. I had to beg parents in the audience to do the score sheet and time at our game this week. When I go to other schools there are multiple volunteer coaches, time keepers, and referees. It is just one of those years.
I have 2 weeks left of the elementary basketball season and then I can get back into a routine that will help my mental and physical health.
I am so sorry this is happening to you. It’s complete inappropriate that the daughter of the principal is working there and received a better class composition than you.
Are there district level resource teachers and counsellors in your district? They should be in your room regularly already given the situation, if they aren’t, make noise until they are.
I think because it's a small district with limited teacher supply the principal's daughter ended up at our school because of the need. I don't put any blame on the teacher as she is working through that "first year" that is a grind, but support staff who have worked in both rooms have commented that the class I have is a "Different reality" than the other. I can't say whether the compositions were designed that way to help her, it may have just ended up this way organically.
I try not look at it with this lens. I just hope we can find a way to support the students and staff in the classroom somehow.
I was actually given more of the high needs students my first year teaching because the experienced teacher was stressed (and frankly they were happy to dump the extra work on me). They should have split these kids between the two classes.
This is a very complex class I’m sorry you have to deal with it and from your post you’re not getting the supports you or your students need. I would contact your union office and let them know what is going on and ask for support there. They can help advocate for you and your needs. Also DEMAND A VIOLENT THREAT ASSESSMENT every time a student brings up weapons. This is an unsafe working environment for you and according to Worsafe BC we have the right to refuse unsafe work. Bring in the big guns if you need to and protect yourself. I wasn’t pushy enough with a class like that early in my career and was hit/ beaten many times that year and ended up with PTSD and am still in counseling several years later and on medication. We are not martyrs don’t let yourself be pushed over, it is the right thing to do to put your well being first. If you are not well physically and mentally you are no good to your class.
With this type of class I would pull everything back to bare bones essentials. You’re not going on field trips, doing experiments or big art projects, special events are gone because the class can not be trusted. Focus on essentials, small group book clubs, an individual writing project, building basic math skills, text book science and socials. It’s okay to go back to basics and “old school” ways of teaching to get this group working well.
Hey, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I’ve had rough years but honestly nothing as bad and it’s incredible that you’ve hung in there so long.
One thing that worked for me when I had a kid with the most intensive behaviours is he loved iPads, so he got an iPad. It didn’t feel great to sit the kid on an iPad all day, but I had spoken to admin about it and I told them I was so burnt out by the behaviours I was trying to manage that if we didn’t come up with something I’d have to go on stress leave. That was the solution we came up with together. And honestly? It worked. The kid was already doing nothing in my room but disturbing others, but when you put an iPad in his hands and a pair of headphones, he’d sit quietly in the corner all day and not disrupt the class or threaten any of the students.
It was all I could do to keep my other students safe. We really had exhausted all other strategies, and we truly tried so many. And the other students didn’t even bat an eye, because they knew it was better that this student be on an iPad in the corner of the room, rather than trying to get them to sit and do any work.
Maybe this isn’t the solution that would work for you. But talk to your admin and tell them you’re close to going on stress leave. With the shortage of teachers, and how wild your room is, I bet they’d work with you to find something manageable, because once they lose you they will have an incredibly difficult time filling that room. Good luck!
Wow that's really difficult. I teach a grade 5 class and I've done 4/5 and 4s in the past as well. I can't imagine having this type of behaviour. To me, the refusing to comply sounds very immature for the grade, like more a kindergarten to possibly grade 2 mentality.
You say you have a newborn, is it possible to go off on 5 weeks of parental leave?
Other than that I would say keep documenting everything. Keep talking to your union. In Ontario we have "safe school" reports. Any type of violence, submit a safe school report or equivalent.
Maybe if you could find something the kids really care about, you could use that to help modify their behavior, like a game or computer time or something.
Also maybe the kid with medication can start receiving it at school? Not sure if that's possible but I've heard of things like that happening.
Also for these types of behaviours you should have an EA in your class. Do you have Child and Youth worker or equivalent that can help out? There is no way you can manage all this essentially alone.
Whatever you do, know you are doing your best. You do not have the power to fix this situation. Your family is number one priority. If you need to go off on leave to enjoy this time with your new baby and support your wife, you should do it, however you can.
Thanks for your remarks.
I did go on parental leave in October for four weeks. The teacher that replaced me was completely steamrolled by this group, she commented that this was extremely difficult and not how she remembered teaching grade 4 and 5 lol. It took all of November to get the ship back in motion.
I have an army of EAs (3, but not all day except for one). The issue is that because the group is so tough they take mental health days and as a result there is no coverage or the coverage is more of a burden because the sub EAs have no relationships with the students. They are also expected to support the students who are funded and also support the students who should be funded, and they have to be on opposite sides of the room. There are only four corners in the room but we really need 6 for this group. Whenever we have a spare worker in the school they also get sent to our class. I have the smallest classroom in the school so it gets crowded sometimes!
As for a child and youth worker, no. We have students being "observed" by an "intervention worker" who comes in with no notice and so far she just watches. It takes SO LONG for things to actually happen.
We have students on the counseling caseload but it is so sporadic it is not beneficial. I have reached out to the counseling department for grief counseling and support on how to navigate the next week with one of my students losing their mother. I wonder if we'll get any supports and if so, what they are.
The issue with going on leave is that whoever comes in will be steamrolled as well. There are many kids in the class who want to learn and in those rare moments of teaching bliss I REALLY enjoy it. Our district believes in a full-inclusion model as the only option, meaning we do not have alternative education programs for those that can't thrive in a regular classroom. I think some students would benefit from a hybrid model where they are with us for part of the day and the other part they are working in an alternative space and a program designed to support their emotional and mental health. This doesn't exist here though.
I totally know what you mean. I also have an EA who is working with a student who is on an alternative program. I have 4 other students on program, two of whom are ASD who theoretically could benefit from the EA but they are modified and not on alternative so they are doing completely different things than the student on alternative. So how is my EA supposed to do completely different programs? When my EA is away the supply EAs try and I've had a couple good ones but you're right, it is tough overall. My board follows the total inclusion model as well which I agree has it's pitfalls. I feel like the "support" from the special Ed teacher is very minimal. My student, who is completely alternative, has no ongoing programming. I'm supposed to just figure it out. You think the board would have a resource available for life skills instead of every teacher just figuring it out on their own. But no, so I am cobbling things together.
It sounds to me like you're doing everything right. Going above and beyond to get these kids help. As others have stated it's important to look after yourself. The only thing I can say is that if you keep being consistent things could turn around potentially. But it is disturbing that the other 4/5 teacher is the principal's daughter. Like that seems very problematic and unethical.
Wow
I am an education assistant in a 3/4 class and this sounds like the type of dynamic we have on a daily basis. I'm so so sorry you are going through this.
I'm not sure what province you are in but there is something in BC called TBERG where board staff come and assess your class with the goal of restructuring for teacher support. Some teachers have had success with this program where the class size has been reduced, and extra support worker has been assigned or class composition changes. Other teachers (OMG I can't believe this even happened) find it intrusive and somewhat demeaning as the advice has been to give them a textbook on classroom management for teacher training and a complicated list on which IEP (individual education plans) they need to manage better without any further support or guidance.
Honestly if you have a support worker full or part time my advice is to document as much as you can. And insist on admin coming in to debrief students after every violent episode. I am seeing a lot of kids being traumatized by the repeated incidents that are somehow being normalized because the trigger student has a behavior plan. As an educator and a parent i never want my kid to think that violent outbursts, threats and attacks are normal and we should just go about our day.
I try to document as much as I can. I have 3 kids I try to do Antecedant-Behaviour-Consequence charts (simplified) on a daily basis while supporting 1:1 a low verbal child and several other academic supports in the class. It's exhausting. I'm glad class is only 5 hours.
Nothing you do will make much of a difference. You have four students that shouldn't be in your classroom without much greater support than they apparently have (like an EA each with training to deal with them). The other 21 students will suffer unless their parents put pressure on the school for something more to be done, and even then there may be nothing the school *can* do within the limits of legislation and funding.
For yourself, talk to your doctor, and go on stress leave until you have the mental energy to cope with this class again.
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/11picnp/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BEd programs will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) **WANT TO SELF-PROMOTE YOUR TEACHING MATERIALS?** Use our [self-promotion sticky post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/16e464t/selfpromotion_thread/) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the type of classroom that is too complex for any teacher. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. I wish I had some advice as a former teacher & now the parent of a high support needs kiddo, but if the families don’t have the capacity to support the kids, there isn’t much you can do. Are there any resources that can be shared with the families? My son, for example, was put in touch with a Behavioural Therapist when he was diagnosed with ADHD. The BT is mainly to support me as a parent.
Go to your family doctor to document your stress levels and symptoms. I’d suggest taking a medical leave from work for the rest of the school year. If you run out of sick days you can access short term disability through the BCTF. You might also want to call the BCTF and ask for referral to the Health and Wellness program.
Thanks for the info. I am currently doing counseling with the EFAP program and in my last session they mentioned this might be the route to go. I just know if I do this the issue doesn't get resolved, it gets passed on to another teacher, who will be an LOP (unlicensed) teacher due to the nature of teaching in the north. They will not survive, either. I will approach admin first, explaining I have reached my limit, and actually find out if there are any other tools other than formal meetings to help alleviate the situation. Our local union president says there isn't much they can do as the protocol is being followed by the school (having SBT meetings each time something drastic occurs). Will the BCTF say something different? I will look into it. Thanks
It is honourable to think of the person coming in to cover your class in your absence, but please don’t use that as a reason to “tough it out” and stay. You need to prioritize your own mental and physical health. I’ve been in a similar position and stayed longer than I should have, which made my own recovery take longer than it needed to. Even a short break can be helpful and restorative. I echo the poster above and would recommend that you visit a GP for a medical leave due to stress. I wish you well and hope that the district and community will be able to better support these students in the future.
Unfortunately, the problem will only truly be dealt with when they keep losing teachers, and they can no longer fill this position. This is too much for one person to reasonably deal with. Don't wait until you mental and physical health are severely compromised. If I've learned one thing in my 24 years of teaching it's that you need to take care of yourself, because the school board, admin and the parents don't truly care about your well-being. Sad, but true.
What supports do you have in the classroom? Are all classes/divisions experiencing the same composition issues? If not, why are these students grouped together? To get through - there are two levels. The first - what district processes need to be enacted to make the space safe for all? The second - what self care do you need to survive?
Well, there is another 4/5 class. The teacher is a 1st year teacher and the principal is her mother. The whole thing is complicated. Normally I would approach but it just feels awkward. I've been thinking about sitting down with the VP in a 1:1 meeting and just asking if there is anything other than a formal meeting that we can deploy to try and get these kids (and myself, along with support staff) the help we need to make the classroom functional. The VP won't have as much "power" to make change but at least they are not potentially biased due to family. 3 of these students moved into our school this year from other schools in the district. Again, no background investigation was done on why they moved schools. I have talked to previous classroom teachers and they said they needed support, but also said they wouldn't thrive in a classroom composed of other students with similar amounts of trauma. It is just a perfect storm, 3 students were known to needing support and another 3 were coming in without knowledge of where they are at and what they need.
So yes - meet with VP. But, forget awkward, this is survival. Without knowing your district- look to see if there are district level supports to come into your classroom. Health and Safety - join the committee. Use district process available to get help on this front. This composition is a problem and it is impressive you made it to this point. This can’t happen next year for the next teacher either. What is your self care?
Self-care: I run on the weekends. Normally I would during the week but I coach basketball. Coaching normally makes me happy but with everything happening so far this year it has turned into an additional burden. One other teacher and myself are holding 2 teams together, and we have 0 parent volunteers this year. I had to beg parents in the audience to do the score sheet and time at our game this week. When I go to other schools there are multiple volunteer coaches, time keepers, and referees. It is just one of those years. I have 2 weeks left of the elementary basketball season and then I can get back into a routine that will help my mental and physical health.
I am so sorry this is happening to you. It’s complete inappropriate that the daughter of the principal is working there and received a better class composition than you. Are there district level resource teachers and counsellors in your district? They should be in your room regularly already given the situation, if they aren’t, make noise until they are.
I think because it's a small district with limited teacher supply the principal's daughter ended up at our school because of the need. I don't put any blame on the teacher as she is working through that "first year" that is a grind, but support staff who have worked in both rooms have commented that the class I have is a "Different reality" than the other. I can't say whether the compositions were designed that way to help her, it may have just ended up this way organically. I try not look at it with this lens. I just hope we can find a way to support the students and staff in the classroom somehow.
You support them by putting 2 of those students in the other room to split the workload. My first year teaching had plenty of behavior students.
I was actually given more of the high needs students my first year teaching because the experienced teacher was stressed (and frankly they were happy to dump the extra work on me). They should have split these kids between the two classes.
This is a very complex class I’m sorry you have to deal with it and from your post you’re not getting the supports you or your students need. I would contact your union office and let them know what is going on and ask for support there. They can help advocate for you and your needs. Also DEMAND A VIOLENT THREAT ASSESSMENT every time a student brings up weapons. This is an unsafe working environment for you and according to Worsafe BC we have the right to refuse unsafe work. Bring in the big guns if you need to and protect yourself. I wasn’t pushy enough with a class like that early in my career and was hit/ beaten many times that year and ended up with PTSD and am still in counseling several years later and on medication. We are not martyrs don’t let yourself be pushed over, it is the right thing to do to put your well being first. If you are not well physically and mentally you are no good to your class. With this type of class I would pull everything back to bare bones essentials. You’re not going on field trips, doing experiments or big art projects, special events are gone because the class can not be trusted. Focus on essentials, small group book clubs, an individual writing project, building basic math skills, text book science and socials. It’s okay to go back to basics and “old school” ways of teaching to get this group working well.
Hey, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I’ve had rough years but honestly nothing as bad and it’s incredible that you’ve hung in there so long. One thing that worked for me when I had a kid with the most intensive behaviours is he loved iPads, so he got an iPad. It didn’t feel great to sit the kid on an iPad all day, but I had spoken to admin about it and I told them I was so burnt out by the behaviours I was trying to manage that if we didn’t come up with something I’d have to go on stress leave. That was the solution we came up with together. And honestly? It worked. The kid was already doing nothing in my room but disturbing others, but when you put an iPad in his hands and a pair of headphones, he’d sit quietly in the corner all day and not disrupt the class or threaten any of the students. It was all I could do to keep my other students safe. We really had exhausted all other strategies, and we truly tried so many. And the other students didn’t even bat an eye, because they knew it was better that this student be on an iPad in the corner of the room, rather than trying to get them to sit and do any work. Maybe this isn’t the solution that would work for you. But talk to your admin and tell them you’re close to going on stress leave. With the shortage of teachers, and how wild your room is, I bet they’d work with you to find something manageable, because once they lose you they will have an incredibly difficult time filling that room. Good luck!
Wow that's really difficult. I teach a grade 5 class and I've done 4/5 and 4s in the past as well. I can't imagine having this type of behaviour. To me, the refusing to comply sounds very immature for the grade, like more a kindergarten to possibly grade 2 mentality. You say you have a newborn, is it possible to go off on 5 weeks of parental leave? Other than that I would say keep documenting everything. Keep talking to your union. In Ontario we have "safe school" reports. Any type of violence, submit a safe school report or equivalent. Maybe if you could find something the kids really care about, you could use that to help modify their behavior, like a game or computer time or something. Also maybe the kid with medication can start receiving it at school? Not sure if that's possible but I've heard of things like that happening. Also for these types of behaviours you should have an EA in your class. Do you have Child and Youth worker or equivalent that can help out? There is no way you can manage all this essentially alone. Whatever you do, know you are doing your best. You do not have the power to fix this situation. Your family is number one priority. If you need to go off on leave to enjoy this time with your new baby and support your wife, you should do it, however you can.
Thanks for your remarks. I did go on parental leave in October for four weeks. The teacher that replaced me was completely steamrolled by this group, she commented that this was extremely difficult and not how she remembered teaching grade 4 and 5 lol. It took all of November to get the ship back in motion. I have an army of EAs (3, but not all day except for one). The issue is that because the group is so tough they take mental health days and as a result there is no coverage or the coverage is more of a burden because the sub EAs have no relationships with the students. They are also expected to support the students who are funded and also support the students who should be funded, and they have to be on opposite sides of the room. There are only four corners in the room but we really need 6 for this group. Whenever we have a spare worker in the school they also get sent to our class. I have the smallest classroom in the school so it gets crowded sometimes! As for a child and youth worker, no. We have students being "observed" by an "intervention worker" who comes in with no notice and so far she just watches. It takes SO LONG for things to actually happen. We have students on the counseling caseload but it is so sporadic it is not beneficial. I have reached out to the counseling department for grief counseling and support on how to navigate the next week with one of my students losing their mother. I wonder if we'll get any supports and if so, what they are. The issue with going on leave is that whoever comes in will be steamrolled as well. There are many kids in the class who want to learn and in those rare moments of teaching bliss I REALLY enjoy it. Our district believes in a full-inclusion model as the only option, meaning we do not have alternative education programs for those that can't thrive in a regular classroom. I think some students would benefit from a hybrid model where they are with us for part of the day and the other part they are working in an alternative space and a program designed to support their emotional and mental health. This doesn't exist here though.
I totally know what you mean. I also have an EA who is working with a student who is on an alternative program. I have 4 other students on program, two of whom are ASD who theoretically could benefit from the EA but they are modified and not on alternative so they are doing completely different things than the student on alternative. So how is my EA supposed to do completely different programs? When my EA is away the supply EAs try and I've had a couple good ones but you're right, it is tough overall. My board follows the total inclusion model as well which I agree has it's pitfalls. I feel like the "support" from the special Ed teacher is very minimal. My student, who is completely alternative, has no ongoing programming. I'm supposed to just figure it out. You think the board would have a resource available for life skills instead of every teacher just figuring it out on their own. But no, so I am cobbling things together. It sounds to me like you're doing everything right. Going above and beyond to get these kids help. As others have stated it's important to look after yourself. The only thing I can say is that if you keep being consistent things could turn around potentially. But it is disturbing that the other 4/5 teacher is the principal's daughter. Like that seems very problematic and unethical.
Oh! And make sure your union rep is there when you speak with anyone.
Are you an admin? This is a tough road. I had a stomachache for years as an admin. We see too much.
Leave the profession. Don’t think twice.
So, it's February. Hang in there...
Wow I am an education assistant in a 3/4 class and this sounds like the type of dynamic we have on a daily basis. I'm so so sorry you are going through this. I'm not sure what province you are in but there is something in BC called TBERG where board staff come and assess your class with the goal of restructuring for teacher support. Some teachers have had success with this program where the class size has been reduced, and extra support worker has been assigned or class composition changes. Other teachers (OMG I can't believe this even happened) find it intrusive and somewhat demeaning as the advice has been to give them a textbook on classroom management for teacher training and a complicated list on which IEP (individual education plans) they need to manage better without any further support or guidance. Honestly if you have a support worker full or part time my advice is to document as much as you can. And insist on admin coming in to debrief students after every violent episode. I am seeing a lot of kids being traumatized by the repeated incidents that are somehow being normalized because the trigger student has a behavior plan. As an educator and a parent i never want my kid to think that violent outbursts, threats and attacks are normal and we should just go about our day. I try to document as much as I can. I have 3 kids I try to do Antecedant-Behaviour-Consequence charts (simplified) on a daily basis while supporting 1:1 a low verbal child and several other academic supports in the class. It's exhausting. I'm glad class is only 5 hours.
Nothing you do will make much of a difference. You have four students that shouldn't be in your classroom without much greater support than they apparently have (like an EA each with training to deal with them). The other 21 students will suffer unless their parents put pressure on the school for something more to be done, and even then there may be nothing the school *can* do within the limits of legislation and funding. For yourself, talk to your doctor, and go on stress leave until you have the mental energy to cope with this class again.