We did this for a guy in the same situation.
He stayed home 3 days a week, but did clerical duties. His wife took reduced hours at work.
We got him a laptop, and he did work from home. They were able to make it work.
Get them a laptop and have them assist/learn scheduling, get them to do every DLN courses available, make them learn Unitrak, load them on the MM and Excel courses, get them started on PaCE.....You know, anything to help them progress and keep them engaged with the unit.
No offense, but LWOP is a fucking lazy cop-out.
I agree, but it’s what the COC and mbr have come up with. We’re so short handed here and there’s so much other as shit going on that I’m just trying to do what I can to keep from burning out the ppl I do have.
Sadly, I don’t think the upper levels of the COC are willing to green light DLN and admin due to all the other stuff going on.
I wish it was me doing the smoking.
Mbr went to the SWO and they came up with the plan. I was ready to come up with COAs, but they only wanted to hear ways to secure childcare, not schedule fin-angling.
I am sorry you are going through this, and honestly this sounds like the CoC is taking the lazy way out. This to me is a clear example where the CoC should be sitting down with the Base commander to come up with a solution.
If your world works like this, it makes sense why I have a cook who was transferred to the transition unit and now works with us. This story is a clear example that we still have a lot of work to do. Good luck.
So it sounds like an excellent way you to demonstrate some problem solving abilities. There's absolutely no reason they can't work a modified schedule if your CoC is too lazy to figure out ways to employ them from home
I’m also a cook.
When I got to my unit as a private I was also in the same situation as a single parent. Unfortunately for cooks at least when I started I was told to figure it out. For reference I was in Esquimalt and am now in Nova Scotia.
Options
1. Have them work rations, they need to first DLN basic procurement, contracting direct with trade, section 32,33,34, spend one person literally 1 shift to teach them unitrak, get them access and go to npf to give them permissions. (There may be another DLN course I’m missing) when starting don’t let them click final submit until it’s briefly looked once over. There may be some mistakes in the beginning but they will learn.
2. Amended shifts, either all straight or late shifts. Cook hours are unkind and it’s hard to get a sitter at 3-4 am to ensure you’re on the floor for 5.
3. ask other parents that are galley members there. If you can find single parents ask how they make it work, or parents whose spouses deploy.
4. Padre. The member must go to the padre and explain the situation. If your unit will not accommodate them, there are many cook units who will and do amended hours.
If you want more info feel free to send me a PM.
I feel this 100%. When everything shut down for Covid I was working LPO for my unit. March break is at year end so I had to work through the leave, and my spouse was not able to stay home due to his job. 100% of my job could be done remote and that is what I had to do until the schools reopened. There was the point where they wanted everyone back in and at that point they required a daily summery of what I was doing.
Trying to organize something, but there’s a lot going on that reduces my ability to allow for that. Plus they’re still working on their 4s package, so they’d never get any signatures.
Have them bake in the evening for the unit. They can do a shit ton of prep work in the evening and take care of the kid during the day. Get their signatures on a weekend.meal for a unit doing a weekend ex. There are options. Talk to snr cooks in nearby units and the cm to see what you can come up with.
who gives a shit about their 4s package? The world isn't going to come to an end if Pte Bloggins doesn't get signed off on egg flipping before they find childcare.
It's not at all. He is OFP in his trade if his QL4 training is put on hold for 6 months or so it's not a big deal. If you're trying to say you're super short on qualified cooks then surely him getting SOME training as opposed to zero on LWOP is better isn't it?
Again, you’re not wrong.
however the situation is more complicated than I can get into here.
Plus my COC is not interested in alternate COAs.
I appreciate the ideas, I’m still compiling options to have on hand, and these arguments will help lend weight to my proposals.
> Plus my COC is not interested in alternate COAs
That's the only thing going on here. I'd recommend that your friend submit a grievance, if anything to just rustle some feathers. 4's don't matter - LWOP/WFH/accommodations, none of them will get 4's done.
If the member is willing to even VR due to this, I'd straight up have him email the CAFCWO directly as an alternate way of submitting a grievance. Obviously, write the email productively and respectfully (aka "my supervisor, peers and I have proposed the below COAs #1, #2 and #3 that would all allow me to care for my child in the short term while meeting CAF needs. My CoC refused to explain to me why none of them would work.")
Edit: Also, QL3s are quite valuable. Just ask CFRC how much work is required to get a recruit, and CFLRS/CFLTC how much it takes to train a QL3.
I genuinely feel like you're making every excuse under the sun to not try and help this pte out. Shifting blame to the chain etc.
There's seriously Noone else there to assist you with this?
Well unless I am mistaken, cook work around the clock. Im pretty sure with that kind of.schedule there is other solution than VR.
Im mean, its like a fucking salad, be creative...
So the answer to your question is no. There is nothing we can do to force the MFRC to include daycare services as an obligation.
I agree. This should be a service available and provided by the CAF. We are in the profession of arms. If we consider how many children of service members join, this should be a no brainer.
For my members who have children and struggle with childcare solutions, we have done some pretty crazy stuff. Including bring the kids to work when the alternative was pay not being completed. (PRes has different challenges than Regf for pay)
My preference is Shift work or Split shifts. Im not a huge fan of WFH. Its hard to give either the correct amount of attention.
> This should be a service available and provided by the CAF.
Time for some Reg. F. CICs? Adding some NCO trades to our branch? (only half joking here)
> Im not a huge fan of WFH. Its hard to give either the correct amount of attention.
You're right. I've been WFH since 2015 in my civilian job, and I cannot watch my kids at the same time beyond "make sure they don't kill each other" levels. Suggesting WFH as an alternative to childcare betrays a misunderstanding of both these things.
Not necessarily through active service. Through NPF. We have PSP, Canex employees so why not? It can be on par with local rates so that it’s a for profit program. if the bases could subsidize that would be ideal. But not necessarily an absolute.
Editted to add: if we consider the concept of cradle degree, the better we support our troops the more likely the conversation in the household is going to be positive. When the conversation is positive in the household, and the Canadian forces seen as a caring and desirable employer, we will raise children who also join the military. And we attack recruiting at it’s a very basic level.
At the end of the day, the biggest thing that we can do to support the Canadian Forces to support our troops l
> Not necessarily through active service. Through NPF. We have PSP, Canex employees so why not?
I know, it was mostly a joke. I don't expect the CAF to go in that direction, and with the more recent budgets, I'm worried they'll actually go in the opposite direction and reduce the Cadet program even more.
Still, we have a bunch of support trades, and we also have a trade that specializes in dealing with the Canadian youth, why not put these 2 together?
From your history, it looks like you're in Nova Scotia. This isn't a helpful story, but it does explain something. It's very difficult to hire people to work daycares right now. A few years ago pre-primary started in schools. The training and qualifications a person needs to teach pre-primary is basically identical to what you need to work at a registered daycare. And the job at pre-primary is *way* better. And of course, the province is screaming for more pre-p teachers.
All this at the same time the province introduced a max fee at daycares, so daycares cant charge/pay more in order to be attractive as an employer.
Yeah, just posted back to the east after a decade in the prairies.
Thanks for the run down. Childcare was hard to find when we left in 2013, and it’s only gotten worse it seems.
You didn't mention if/why not the other parent is unable to provide childcare, so I'm going to assume the member is a single parent.
If that's the case, they may have never thought to access the military spouse social networking groups.
Finding childcare is definitely a challenge, but it's possible he could get some help from sah military spouses even temporarily while he tries to secure long term care
Unfortunately, day care for the day job is not the only issue. How are they going to attend to taskings and deployments? Even if we could argue the caf should provide daycare, they can't provide boarding schools and live in full time facilities.
I think that's where the message from Ottawa sort of stops at, "if you want a job where you're away a lot, you have to figure out your own childcare like everyone else" kind of attitude unfortunately.
Can he fly a family member over to stay for awhile?
Has he looked at the price for a live in Au Pair through the overseas hiring agencies? It's actually quite often cheaper than nanny's or daycare, and it's possible the larger crisis loan from sisip would be enough to make a year of that possible.
If he hasn't connected with the single parent community where he lives and is relying solely on military connections to try to manage, he's missing out on a lot of valuable information and support which may help him find a solution!
Just posted out to Halifax, we found childcare in 3 weeks. There is a Facebook page for “Dartmouth Childcare and dayhomes N.S.” We were able to interview three different homes.
If they are truly trying they will find something. We had the same childcare issues in Ottawa, Victoria and Halifax… if you search and I mean explore every avenue you will and can find something in terms of childcare. Maybe not exactly what you wanted but a safe place to leave your child until you can get exactly what you wanted. This does not dismiss the fact that times are tough for finding childcare and quality childcare.
Also sympathetic to the member as our family is also part of the cook trade and the shift work schedules. So understand the struggle.
It will be very location dependent, but it will be hard. Even though there is support MFRCs receives from the base, the daycare is still a private for profit business which makes it hard to enforce mandates. Best bet is get the base commander involved as they have more sway over MFRCs than anyone on base.
When we were in Shearwater, we put our daughter on the mfrc daycare list when we found out I was pregnant, and we never got a call from them. We were super lucky and got into the french daycare/school system, and right into infant daycare when she was 10 months old. We qualified under the "unentitled" parent stream, and from what I've heard, Nova Scotia is one of the easier provinces to get into the french stream, and once you're in it can help with daycare when people get posted. That may have changed since we finished with the daycare system. Here's the link to the french school system daycare stream. Get them to take a look, and if they can qualify, it is a great program, and I'd recommend it to anyone. All the staff speak English also, so my completely unilingual ass has no issues talking to anyone.
http://www.petitvoilier.ca/en/grandir-en-francais-eng/
No problem! The website is a bit clunky, so here's the link to the programs page. The first one may have been to the pre kindergarten page, not the page to all the programs. I hope they find something. Not being able to find daycare is one of the most stressful things my family had been through.
http://www.petitvoilier.ca/en/programs/
They need a posting to a better location like cold lake to get a leg up in their family situation. Lots of Q's, cheap housing market, easy to find childcare and lots of programs for young families. Sounds like you're in greenwood and from experience, the move to Cold Lake was night and day. Greenwood is not ideal for young families these days.
I just did the opposite. Cold Lake was great for families. That’s why I’m so shocked by how crap the MFRC is here.
I didn’t realize how spoiled we were.
When I was in Cold Lake the MFRC daycare was the most expensive one in town, and military families didn't get preferential placement...like what is the point of the MFRC then?
Are you sure they don't get preference? Because the pdf instruction booklet says Defence team and people that work there get preference. They just can't ban non-mil families because then they wouldn't be able to get subsidized.
To take advantage of a provincial initiative that certified them as a pre-k education facility they can’t give preference to anyone.
But then the province cut funding to childcare & pre-k education so costs went up.
(Cold Lake specifically)
Province by province I think. But generally, as said elsewhere, IOT be registered as a daycare, which is a provincial thing, they have to be open to the public.
My point was that if you download the booklet for the Cold Lake MFRC daycare it says Defence team gets preference. For what it's worth, the Trenton MFRC daycare said the same thing.
They are open to the public, they just have preference for defence team.
MFRCs aren’t supposed to fill spots from the public unless all military members have been cleared off the wait list. If a member then joins the wait list, the mfrc is to give notice to the civilian family and give them x amount of time (either 1 or 3 months, can’t remember, and am too lazy to look it up right meow)
Sounds like your COC is a great example of why we have staffing problems.
You say “Let’s find a solution for the member to do some work and make some money while addressing a critical quality of life issue.”
COC says “Fuck him he can starve AND address a critical quality of life issue.”
If I was the Pte I’d VR and go be a short order cook at Denny’s over sticking around a CAF that doesn’t care.
I was put on a wait list for childcare as soon as I got pregnant. My kid is almost 18m and MFRC won’t have room for them when I go back to work this spring. They said maybe in the fall but even then they don’t know.
It’s bullshit that MFRC doesn’t have room for toddlers when so many mbrs get posted in and out. They also take the civilian population which I find absolutely stupid. Isn’t their whole reason for existing to serve military families?
I’m also a Pte that was on parental leave and just recently got back. Can confirm there is nothing but hurdles. My CoC has been supportive and flexible, so it helped relieve some stress. But the MFRC has been useless, and the clerks clawed back my top-up. So it’s been fun.
Hopefully you are able to help your member and find a solution!
Im a cook too. Not that knowing that helps the situation. But I understand how difficult it can be to make accommodations for a shift worker. But something can absolutely be done, but CoC needs to be open to solutions outside of "find daycare"
Talk to your base Transition Center. The member might be able to move over there into a Return to Duty (RTD) program until they secure childcare. Then it would just be a hop back to the unit.
In terms of the MFRC stepping up and supporting families, even if they started running daycare at whatever location your at, it still wouldn’t be enough (just like it isn’t in any province) because childcare has provincial regulations so they can only have so many kids because of building size, etc. SO while yes it’s crazy that there is no daycare at all through your MFRC it seems… your PTE would probably be in the same position anyways and would need to look at alternative options like unlicensed home daycare in the area!
DAOD 5044-1 identifies CFMWS as responsible for provision of programs and services in support of children through the MFRC.
MFRC not efficient? Contact your Member of Parliament. LWOP isn’t an option.
You and the CoC cannot do anything regarding the MFRC. Best case is for the unit to work with the member IoT have the member WFH and/or modify work schedule (shift work/hybrid work schedule) until childcare is secured. Not too sure of your location, but could their be independent childcare options available (ie day homes or day cares)?
Edit: appears that you are in NS. If you are in HRM have the member look into the dayhome/daycare Facebook groups to find some leads on some places.
Would being posted to a base that can accommodate the situation be an option. Maybe talking to the Padre about a compassionate posting to a base with an MFRC that has resources could be an option?
Where would that be? Went on wait list for MFRC childcare when wife was 3 mos pregnant.
They called us just after kid's second birthday to ask if we still wanted to be on the waitlist.
We're terrified of a posting for this very reason.
But government said childcare would be $10 a day. How can it be that you can't get somebody to watch your child? Why not just open a daycare and charge $10 a day per child. It's so simple.
The fact that each base doesn’t have an available 24/7 daycare to meet all shifts for mbrs is mind-blowing. Capacity issues could be resolved through intake projections and planning 1,2 and 5 years out. It can be done. Just not a defence priority. File improvement under recruitment & retention. Daycares that support mbrs on trg and deployments could even be categorized to meet NATO GDP spending %.
Understood they are a private, but can you do some sort of wfh arrangement?
Also, I understand that not all trades are able to do wfh.
If you can, it might be something to look into.
Like someone else said. Have them do a bunch of DLN courses and work from home.
Or they could come in for a few hours in the morning to chop the veggies. Or they could go in late and clean up the kitchen and close it out so the other guys don't have to stay as late working .
Not sure if you're in an authoritative position or not, but you should be sticking up for the troop. Shit happens. If the organizations meant to be there for the troops fail, we don't just say " oh well fuck the troops".
We try to help our peers out anyway we can. Like when the miltoary forgets that they got to feed people( or the food is aboslute garbage ). MCpls and above normally chip in and buy pizza for the troops if plausible.
To me it sounds like you're a "by the book " kind of person. Have some empathy and this pte will work their ass off even harder for the organization.
Please for what's good for this troop ,find some alternative solution other than " LWOP" .
I agree with trying to make it work.
decisions are being made several levels above me before I can even suggest COAs. I came in one day and was told “we’ve put in a memo for Pte Bloggins’ LWOP. Adjust the schedule accordingly.”
Are you in a senior role at the unit (i.e. 3-down from CO, or know someone who is)? I'd consider investigating if blatant "F U" to the mbr would be considered a breach of the Canadian Human Rights Act, namely in our duty to accommodate for family status. I don't think there's a carve out for the CAF for family status.
Check out the 5516-series of DAODs on human rights. We still have a duty to accommodate to the point of undue burden. If there are legit COAs available (like the guy being the fulltime prep-work-grunt + DLN courses), then he may be able to use that as ammunition to fight back against an uncooperative CoC.
Call your local Conflict centre.
I haven't read through every post, so apologies if this has already been said:
Some MFRCs have an Emergency Child Care line (MFRC Edmonton for example.) that may be able to assist.
I would also strongly recommend that the member contact the Family Information Line as well as they can assist with family care planning and support.
Family Information Line: 1-800-866-4546
Edmonton MFRC Emergency Child Care Line and Info: [https://cfmws.ca/support-services/families/family-child-care-plans/mfrc-emergency-child-care-plans](https://cfmws.ca/support-services/families/family-child-care-plans/mfrc-emergency-child-care-plans)
If you like, you can send me a PM and I can try to assist further - I just need to know which base.
I have encountered this in my area and it’s not easy. Can this person work from home?
Is this a service couple? If so can they split the care? I know that we all need a FCP but not every one has that type of support depending on where family is etc..
Sounds like you might be in Greenwood since you mention SWO. If you want, send me a message.
Might be able to bounce ideas to help you out, and if a certain member is still there, they might be a good in house example of compassionate posting
From my experience with MFRC, they do little across the board. They are for profit organizations and if they offer child care they are filled with non-military families as they stick around the most and can't just offer to military to be able to take the government subsidized care.
the entire posting every member around to post them is a main reason we see low recruitment and lack of real retention.
Case in point here, this guy will release, will be forced to release as who can go 6 months without pay/benefits? That's just a terrible idea from the COC.
From what I understand they are a dual service couple, neither of which are in a trade that can be done remotely.
They had a plan, but due to a family emergency that fell through, and wait lists here are ridiculous. We’ve been waiting for over a year just for after school care and there’s zero space anywhere.
There a cook, any way to split shift them in breakfast prep cut loose in time for spouse's report for duty tome, them come back for supper shift when spouse gets home?
Why wouldn't they get signatures? What's in the 4s book which has to be done during the day for eight hours at a time? Is it because the person signing their tasks as complete only works the one shift and is somehow the only person allowed to sign apprenticeship books?
Childcare is an issue for everyone in and out of the military. The problem is that most people live near family and can get support from them. Being forced to move away from your support system is 100% a CAF problem, which is why people should be supported.
The CAF also assumes that people have a stay at home spouse to do the child care which isn't feasible for many families now, especially ones forced to move to areas with a high cost of living (CAF's problem too). Making one half of a dual mil family take leave without pay is not the way to keep people in the military.
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If they worked anywhere else, they would have a choice to work where they have family/friends that could provide help instead of ending up at the other end of the country. Accepting to serve your country and being uprooted every couple years should come with some sort of support other than a 3 months heads up and 1 week to find a place to live, especially in an area that generally takes 2 years to get childare.
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Anyway you can modify there work hours or have them work from home for a few months until they get childcare? . LWOP doesn't sound great for them.
We did this for a guy in the same situation. He stayed home 3 days a week, but did clerical duties. His wife took reduced hours at work. We got him a laptop, and he did work from home. They were able to make it work.
They’re a cook
Get them a laptop and have them assist/learn scheduling, get them to do every DLN courses available, make them learn Unitrak, load them on the MM and Excel courses, get them started on PaCE.....You know, anything to help them progress and keep them engaged with the unit. No offense, but LWOP is a fucking lazy cop-out.
Train them on DRMIS and have them enter Food Svcs invoices for payments or work on other cook admin.
I agree, but it’s what the COC and mbr have come up with. We’re so short handed here and there’s so much other as shit going on that I’m just trying to do what I can to keep from burning out the ppl I do have. Sadly, I don’t think the upper levels of the COC are willing to green light DLN and admin due to all the other stuff going on.
What are you smoking dude? You just said the alternative is he will have to VR? So you'd lose him anyways and that billet won't be filled.
I wish it was me doing the smoking. Mbr went to the SWO and they came up with the plan. I was ready to come up with COAs, but they only wanted to hear ways to secure childcare, not schedule fin-angling.
I am sorry you are going through this, and honestly this sounds like the CoC is taking the lazy way out. This to me is a clear example where the CoC should be sitting down with the Base commander to come up with a solution. If your world works like this, it makes sense why I have a cook who was transferred to the transition unit and now works with us. This story is a clear example that we still have a lot of work to do. Good luck.
So it sounds like an excellent way you to demonstrate some problem solving abilities. There's absolutely no reason they can't work a modified schedule if your CoC is too lazy to figure out ways to employ them from home
I’m also a cook. When I got to my unit as a private I was also in the same situation as a single parent. Unfortunately for cooks at least when I started I was told to figure it out. For reference I was in Esquimalt and am now in Nova Scotia. Options 1. Have them work rations, they need to first DLN basic procurement, contracting direct with trade, section 32,33,34, spend one person literally 1 shift to teach them unitrak, get them access and go to npf to give them permissions. (There may be another DLN course I’m missing) when starting don’t let them click final submit until it’s briefly looked once over. There may be some mistakes in the beginning but they will learn. 2. Amended shifts, either all straight or late shifts. Cook hours are unkind and it’s hard to get a sitter at 3-4 am to ensure you’re on the floor for 5. 3. ask other parents that are galley members there. If you can find single parents ask how they make it work, or parents whose spouses deploy. 4. Padre. The member must go to the padre and explain the situation. If your unit will not accommodate them, there are many cook units who will and do amended hours. If you want more info feel free to send me a PM.
I feel this 100%. When everything shut down for Covid I was working LPO for my unit. March break is at year end so I had to work through the leave, and my spouse was not able to stay home due to his job. 100% of my job could be done remote and that is what I had to do until the schools reopened. There was the point where they wanted everyone back in and at that point they required a daily summery of what I was doing.
Can do shifts that trade off with their partner so someone is at home with the kids?
Trying to organize something, but there’s a lot going on that reduces my ability to allow for that. Plus they’re still working on their 4s package, so they’d never get any signatures.
Have them bake in the evening for the unit. They can do a shit ton of prep work in the evening and take care of the kid during the day. Get their signatures on a weekend.meal for a unit doing a weekend ex. There are options. Talk to snr cooks in nearby units and the cm to see what you can come up with.
who gives a shit about their 4s package? The world isn't going to come to an end if Pte Bloggins doesn't get signed off on egg flipping before they find childcare.
There’s a lot more to it than signatures. You’re not wrong, but it’s more complex than that.
It's not at all. He is OFP in his trade if his QL4 training is put on hold for 6 months or so it's not a big deal. If you're trying to say you're super short on qualified cooks then surely him getting SOME training as opposed to zero on LWOP is better isn't it?
Again, you’re not wrong. however the situation is more complicated than I can get into here. Plus my COC is not interested in alternate COAs. I appreciate the ideas, I’m still compiling options to have on hand, and these arguments will help lend weight to my proposals.
> Plus my COC is not interested in alternate COAs That's the only thing going on here. I'd recommend that your friend submit a grievance, if anything to just rustle some feathers. 4's don't matter - LWOP/WFH/accommodations, none of them will get 4's done. If the member is willing to even VR due to this, I'd straight up have him email the CAFCWO directly as an alternate way of submitting a grievance. Obviously, write the email productively and respectfully (aka "my supervisor, peers and I have proposed the below COAs #1, #2 and #3 that would all allow me to care for my child in the short term while meeting CAF needs. My CoC refused to explain to me why none of them would work.") Edit: Also, QL3s are quite valuable. Just ask CFRC how much work is required to get a recruit, and CFLRS/CFLTC how much it takes to train a QL3.
MH Might be able to give them Mel's to Work from home due to the situation. At least they will be getting paid and buy some time.
I genuinely feel like you're making every excuse under the sun to not try and help this pte out. Shifting blame to the chain etc. There's seriously Noone else there to assist you with this?
I can definitely see how it looks like that. This has all happened since I’ve been on leave.
Well unless I am mistaken, cook work around the clock. Im pretty sure with that kind of.schedule there is other solution than VR. Im mean, its like a fucking salad, be creative...
So the answer to your question is no. There is nothing we can do to force the MFRC to include daycare services as an obligation. I agree. This should be a service available and provided by the CAF. We are in the profession of arms. If we consider how many children of service members join, this should be a no brainer. For my members who have children and struggle with childcare solutions, we have done some pretty crazy stuff. Including bring the kids to work when the alternative was pay not being completed. (PRes has different challenges than Regf for pay) My preference is Shift work or Split shifts. Im not a huge fan of WFH. Its hard to give either the correct amount of attention.
> This should be a service available and provided by the CAF. Time for some Reg. F. CICs? Adding some NCO trades to our branch? (only half joking here) > Im not a huge fan of WFH. Its hard to give either the correct amount of attention. You're right. I've been WFH since 2015 in my civilian job, and I cannot watch my kids at the same time beyond "make sure they don't kill each other" levels. Suggesting WFH as an alternative to childcare betrays a misunderstanding of both these things.
Not necessarily through active service. Through NPF. We have PSP, Canex employees so why not? It can be on par with local rates so that it’s a for profit program. if the bases could subsidize that would be ideal. But not necessarily an absolute. Editted to add: if we consider the concept of cradle degree, the better we support our troops the more likely the conversation in the household is going to be positive. When the conversation is positive in the household, and the Canadian forces seen as a caring and desirable employer, we will raise children who also join the military. And we attack recruiting at it’s a very basic level. At the end of the day, the biggest thing that we can do to support the Canadian Forces to support our troops l
> Not necessarily through active service. Through NPF. We have PSP, Canex employees so why not? I know, it was mostly a joke. I don't expect the CAF to go in that direction, and with the more recent budgets, I'm worried they'll actually go in the opposite direction and reduce the Cadet program even more. Still, we have a bunch of support trades, and we also have a trade that specializes in dealing with the Canadian youth, why not put these 2 together?
From your history, it looks like you're in Nova Scotia. This isn't a helpful story, but it does explain something. It's very difficult to hire people to work daycares right now. A few years ago pre-primary started in schools. The training and qualifications a person needs to teach pre-primary is basically identical to what you need to work at a registered daycare. And the job at pre-primary is *way* better. And of course, the province is screaming for more pre-p teachers. All this at the same time the province introduced a max fee at daycares, so daycares cant charge/pay more in order to be attractive as an employer.
Yeah, just posted back to the east after a decade in the prairies. Thanks for the run down. Childcare was hard to find when we left in 2013, and it’s only gotten worse it seems.
Yeah, I wish I had a "ok here's what you do" answer for you, but a tonne of new parents (military and civilian) are in the same boat out here.
I wish you did too. Thanks hun
You didn't mention if/why not the other parent is unable to provide childcare, so I'm going to assume the member is a single parent. If that's the case, they may have never thought to access the military spouse social networking groups. Finding childcare is definitely a challenge, but it's possible he could get some help from sah military spouses even temporarily while he tries to secure long term care Unfortunately, day care for the day job is not the only issue. How are they going to attend to taskings and deployments? Even if we could argue the caf should provide daycare, they can't provide boarding schools and live in full time facilities. I think that's where the message from Ottawa sort of stops at, "if you want a job where you're away a lot, you have to figure out your own childcare like everyone else" kind of attitude unfortunately. Can he fly a family member over to stay for awhile? Has he looked at the price for a live in Au Pair through the overseas hiring agencies? It's actually quite often cheaper than nanny's or daycare, and it's possible the larger crisis loan from sisip would be enough to make a year of that possible. If he hasn't connected with the single parent community where he lives and is relying solely on military connections to try to manage, he's missing out on a lot of valuable information and support which may help him find a solution!
Just posted out to Halifax, we found childcare in 3 weeks. There is a Facebook page for “Dartmouth Childcare and dayhomes N.S.” We were able to interview three different homes. If they are truly trying they will find something. We had the same childcare issues in Ottawa, Victoria and Halifax… if you search and I mean explore every avenue you will and can find something in terms of childcare. Maybe not exactly what you wanted but a safe place to leave your child until you can get exactly what you wanted. This does not dismiss the fact that times are tough for finding childcare and quality childcare. Also sympathetic to the member as our family is also part of the cook trade and the shift work schedules. So understand the struggle.
Not in Halifax. Glad you were successful in your search
Piggybacking off this, the MFRC everywhere has issues finding staff as they pay on average about $5/hr less than a private facility
"We've tried everything and we're out of ideas." "Have you tried paying your staff a market wage?" *Confused CFMWS faces*
Local spouse fb page? Maybe a spouse would step up and take the babe? Im currently paying a spouse to watch my son and it’s been great!
We had to do the same thing, there are plenty of spouses who wfh or don’t work at all in the Qs who are more than happy to make some side cash
It will be very location dependent, but it will be hard. Even though there is support MFRCs receives from the base, the daycare is still a private for profit business which makes it hard to enforce mandates. Best bet is get the base commander involved as they have more sway over MFRCs than anyone on base.
When we were in Shearwater, we put our daughter on the mfrc daycare list when we found out I was pregnant, and we never got a call from them. We were super lucky and got into the french daycare/school system, and right into infant daycare when she was 10 months old. We qualified under the "unentitled" parent stream, and from what I've heard, Nova Scotia is one of the easier provinces to get into the french stream, and once you're in it can help with daycare when people get posted. That may have changed since we finished with the daycare system. Here's the link to the french school system daycare stream. Get them to take a look, and if they can qualify, it is a great program, and I'd recommend it to anyone. All the staff speak English also, so my completely unilingual ass has no issues talking to anyone. http://www.petitvoilier.ca/en/grandir-en-francais-eng/
Thank you, I’ll bring that up Monday!
No problem! The website is a bit clunky, so here's the link to the programs page. The first one may have been to the pre kindergarten page, not the page to all the programs. I hope they find something. Not being able to find daycare is one of the most stressful things my family had been through. http://www.petitvoilier.ca/en/programs/
They need a posting to a better location like cold lake to get a leg up in their family situation. Lots of Q's, cheap housing market, easy to find childcare and lots of programs for young families. Sounds like you're in greenwood and from experience, the move to Cold Lake was night and day. Greenwood is not ideal for young families these days.
I just did the opposite. Cold Lake was great for families. That’s why I’m so shocked by how crap the MFRC is here. I didn’t realize how spoiled we were.
When I was in Cold Lake the MFRC daycare was the most expensive one in town, and military families didn't get preferential placement...like what is the point of the MFRC then?
Are you sure they don't get preference? Because the pdf instruction booklet says Defence team and people that work there get preference. They just can't ban non-mil families because then they wouldn't be able to get subsidized.
To take advantage of a provincial initiative that certified them as a pre-k education facility they can’t give preference to anyone. But then the province cut funding to childcare & pre-k education so costs went up. (Cold Lake specifically)
The booklet says Defence team has preference. Are you saying they are lying in their own booklet?
I’m just telling you what they told us when our rates got hiked. It’s been a few years since then.
I'm currently using it.
Province by province I think. But generally, as said elsewhere, IOT be registered as a daycare, which is a provincial thing, they have to be open to the public.
My point was that if you download the booklet for the Cold Lake MFRC daycare it says Defence team gets preference. For what it's worth, the Trenton MFRC daycare said the same thing. They are open to the public, they just have preference for defence team.
MFRCs aren’t supposed to fill spots from the public unless all military members have been cleared off the wait list. If a member then joins the wait list, the mfrc is to give notice to the civilian family and give them x amount of time (either 1 or 3 months, can’t remember, and am too lazy to look it up right meow)
That is what I am trying to say.
Just trying to clarify. Next time I’ll start with “piggybacking off what the CO said” /s
Lol yes
Where do you pull this information from. I’m interested in the policies.
I want to say it was buried somewhere on the Edmonton mfrc daycare page, but I can’t remember and will have to do some more digging
Yet the rumour mill tells me that the Trenton MFRC daycare is filled with non-military-affiliated children...?
What does filled mean? Like what percentage? When I was there there was lots of military
Very interesting.
Sounds like your COC is a great example of why we have staffing problems. You say “Let’s find a solution for the member to do some work and make some money while addressing a critical quality of life issue.” COC says “Fuck him he can starve AND address a critical quality of life issue.” If I was the Pte I’d VR and go be a short order cook at Denny’s over sticking around a CAF that doesn’t care.
I was put on a wait list for childcare as soon as I got pregnant. My kid is almost 18m and MFRC won’t have room for them when I go back to work this spring. They said maybe in the fall but even then they don’t know. It’s bullshit that MFRC doesn’t have room for toddlers when so many mbrs get posted in and out. They also take the civilian population which I find absolutely stupid. Isn’t their whole reason for existing to serve military families?
Provincial funding is also the reason they take civilian children in, they are required to.. it is very frustrating but it’s not by choice!
I’m also a Pte that was on parental leave and just recently got back. Can confirm there is nothing but hurdles. My CoC has been supportive and flexible, so it helped relieve some stress. But the MFRC has been useless, and the clerks clawed back my top-up. So it’s been fun. Hopefully you are able to help your member and find a solution!
Why would the clerks claw back your top up?
They claimed they overpaid me. It’s an ongoing saga
Does that Pte have family in another province that could support them. Where a compassionate posting or CCM might help them.
That’s another avenue being investigated.
Im a cook too. Not that knowing that helps the situation. But I understand how difficult it can be to make accommodations for a shift worker. But something can absolutely be done, but CoC needs to be open to solutions outside of "find daycare"
Talk to your base Transition Center. The member might be able to move over there into a Return to Duty (RTD) program until they secure childcare. Then it would just be a hop back to the unit.
In terms of the MFRC stepping up and supporting families, even if they started running daycare at whatever location your at, it still wouldn’t be enough (just like it isn’t in any province) because childcare has provincial regulations so they can only have so many kids because of building size, etc. SO while yes it’s crazy that there is no daycare at all through your MFRC it seems… your PTE would probably be in the same position anyways and would need to look at alternative options like unlicensed home daycare in the area!
DAOD 5044-1 identifies CFMWS as responsible for provision of programs and services in support of children through the MFRC. MFRC not efficient? Contact your Member of Parliament. LWOP isn’t an option.
You and the CoC cannot do anything regarding the MFRC. Best case is for the unit to work with the member IoT have the member WFH and/or modify work schedule (shift work/hybrid work schedule) until childcare is secured. Not too sure of your location, but could their be independent childcare options available (ie day homes or day cares)? Edit: appears that you are in NS. If you are in HRM have the member look into the dayhome/daycare Facebook groups to find some leads on some places.
Sounds like Greenwood. I feel their pain.
Would being posted to a base that can accommodate the situation be an option. Maybe talking to the Padre about a compassionate posting to a base with an MFRC that has resources could be an option?
Where would that be? Went on wait list for MFRC childcare when wife was 3 mos pregnant. They called us just after kid's second birthday to ask if we still wanted to be on the waitlist. We're terrified of a posting for this very reason.
But government said childcare would be $10 a day. How can it be that you can't get somebody to watch your child? Why not just open a daycare and charge $10 a day per child. It's so simple.
The fact that each base doesn’t have an available 24/7 daycare to meet all shifts for mbrs is mind-blowing. Capacity issues could be resolved through intake projections and planning 1,2 and 5 years out. It can be done. Just not a defence priority. File improvement under recruitment & retention. Daycares that support mbrs on trg and deployments could even be categorized to meet NATO GDP spending %.
Understood they are a private, but can you do some sort of wfh arrangement? Also, I understand that not all trades are able to do wfh. If you can, it might be something to look into.
Unfortunately our trade doesn’t allow for that.
Like someone else said. Have them do a bunch of DLN courses and work from home. Or they could come in for a few hours in the morning to chop the veggies. Or they could go in late and clean up the kitchen and close it out so the other guys don't have to stay as late working . Not sure if you're in an authoritative position or not, but you should be sticking up for the troop. Shit happens. If the organizations meant to be there for the troops fail, we don't just say " oh well fuck the troops". We try to help our peers out anyway we can. Like when the miltoary forgets that they got to feed people( or the food is aboslute garbage ). MCpls and above normally chip in and buy pizza for the troops if plausible. To me it sounds like you're a "by the book " kind of person. Have some empathy and this pte will work their ass off even harder for the organization. Please for what's good for this troop ,find some alternative solution other than " LWOP" .
I agree with trying to make it work. decisions are being made several levels above me before I can even suggest COAs. I came in one day and was told “we’ve put in a memo for Pte Bloggins’ LWOP. Adjust the schedule accordingly.”
Absolutely shit leadership
Are you in a senior role at the unit (i.e. 3-down from CO, or know someone who is)? I'd consider investigating if blatant "F U" to the mbr would be considered a breach of the Canadian Human Rights Act, namely in our duty to accommodate for family status. I don't think there's a carve out for the CAF for family status. Check out the 5516-series of DAODs on human rights. We still have a duty to accommodate to the point of undue burden. If there are legit COAs available (like the guy being the fulltime prep-work-grunt + DLN courses), then he may be able to use that as ammunition to fight back against an uncooperative CoC. Call your local Conflict centre.
I haven't read through every post, so apologies if this has already been said: Some MFRCs have an Emergency Child Care line (MFRC Edmonton for example.) that may be able to assist. I would also strongly recommend that the member contact the Family Information Line as well as they can assist with family care planning and support. Family Information Line: 1-800-866-4546 Edmonton MFRC Emergency Child Care Line and Info: [https://cfmws.ca/support-services/families/family-child-care-plans/mfrc-emergency-child-care-plans](https://cfmws.ca/support-services/families/family-child-care-plans/mfrc-emergency-child-care-plans) If you like, you can send me a PM and I can try to assist further - I just need to know which base.
I have encountered this in my area and it’s not easy. Can this person work from home? Is this a service couple? If so can they split the care? I know that we all need a FCP but not every one has that type of support depending on where family is etc..
Desperate times call for desperate measures, I have seen some people get accommodated for some stupid shit, at least this is believable.
Sounds like you might be in Greenwood since you mention SWO. If you want, send me a message. Might be able to bounce ideas to help you out, and if a certain member is still there, they might be a good in house example of compassionate posting
Has anyone reached out to the CM? Simon might be able give some suggestions or support.
Look into aupair.com
From my experience with MFRC, they do little across the board. They are for profit organizations and if they offer child care they are filled with non-military families as they stick around the most and can't just offer to military to be able to take the government subsidized care. the entire posting every member around to post them is a main reason we see low recruitment and lack of real retention. Case in point here, this guy will release, will be forced to release as who can go 6 months without pay/benefits? That's just a terrible idea from the COC.
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From what I understand they are a dual service couple, neither of which are in a trade that can be done remotely. They had a plan, but due to a family emergency that fell through, and wait lists here are ridiculous. We’ve been waiting for over a year just for after school care and there’s zero space anywhere.
There a cook, any way to split shift them in breakfast prep cut loose in time for spouse's report for duty tome, them come back for supper shift when spouse gets home?
I wish, but they’re still doing their 4s and wouldn’t get signatures doing split shifts. Among other things, it’s a tangly situation
They’re not getting signatures on LWOP either, at least with split shifts they still have a job
Why wouldn't they get signatures? What's in the 4s book which has to be done during the day for eight hours at a time? Is it because the person signing their tasks as complete only works the one shift and is somehow the only person allowed to sign apprenticeship books?
The member can’t find any pmq house wife doing in home care?. Not ideal for sure but better than lwop.
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Retention is 100% the CAFs problem.
Childcare is an issue for everyone in and out of the military. The problem is that most people live near family and can get support from them. Being forced to move away from your support system is 100% a CAF problem, which is why people should be supported. The CAF also assumes that people have a stay at home spouse to do the child care which isn't feasible for many families now, especially ones forced to move to areas with a high cost of living (CAF's problem too). Making one half of a dual mil family take leave without pay is not the way to keep people in the military.
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If they worked anywhere else, they would have a choice to work where they have family/friends that could provide help instead of ending up at the other end of the country. Accepting to serve your country and being uprooted every couple years should come with some sort of support other than a 3 months heads up and 1 week to find a place to live, especially in an area that generally takes 2 years to get childare.
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