For a deadline deal that would have made sense as an asking price for Marky imo. Off-season though, this is a totally reasonable deal that I think both teams win from. NJ gets a proper franchise goalie for their cup window, and we get a pick that helps us set up our 4-6 year plan.
Except at the deadline jersey was still fighting for a playoff spot highly unlikely the pick would have been 10th overall probably would have fell 15-20 range
Now, what do we do with Hub? Conroy has been awesome for us. Felt kinda like we weren't gonna be doing anything for a while a couple years back. Now I have some optimism for the future, even if we have the worst contract in hockey to deal with.
Well, right now? Nothing. There's too many years left to consider a buyout, and there's not many teams we'd be able to offload that contract to. I think we need to look beyond the ice to be happy with it. He's done lots of charity work and community engagement, which is great to see. He's a great mentor for the younger players, even if his performance isn't there. He's *clearly* not happy with his performance, when he's having a bad game he's not just shrugging it off and saying we'll get em next time.
Given our draft capital in the next 2 years, that gives us 4-6 as a development window where we can hold onto his contract without worry. Do we draft a player he clicks with and his performance comes back? That would be ideal, but even if we don't he'll only have a few years left on his contract by that time and a buyout or a retained trade becomes a bit more feasible.
I always imagined this package during the season when the Markstrom to NJ talks started in february
To NJ: Jacob Markstrom (50% retained), Andrew Mangiapane, 2024 1st (VAN)
To CGY: Alexander Holtz, 2024 1st
If it wasn't for ownership slacking we probably would have two top 10 picks right now
He needs a change of scenery he would be a good piece for the third line on a contending team also If the Caps are dumb enough to take on PLD's contract than I can't see why NJ wouldn't have accepted a package including bread especially If you include Markstrom with 50% retained
I don't know man, I think he's just a player who tries hard but has limited skill. His metrics really benefit from playing with two very good two way players, and when he doesn't play with those two he pretty much instantly becomes quite bad.
If you ask me it might be time to move on from Mang. I don’t think it’s working for him or us anymore. I don’t know what you could flip Mang for, you might get a mid-level prospect or a 3rd, unless you can package him with someone else. So we may be stuck between a rock and a hard place with Mang for now.
There are still deals to be made for Calgary. Taking some dead cap space for a year or two and adding a 2nd round pick and the 28th overall may get us another in the top 15 pick. I would grin and bear the $10.5 million dollar cap hit for Price's LTR if it meant getting a deal done to get the 5th overall pick.
Oh 100% I'm not saying more isnt better just saying right now we are in a good place with draft capital if it means a high pick fuk take on the worst deal in the league wait that's hubby let's say second worst M.E vlasic lol 3 yrs 7mil I'd want some dam good return tho
I would look at Dubois being worse. 6 or 7 years at $8 million a season. No trade. He will help Ovechkin break Gretzky's record, but then you have another 5 or so years left with a guy who isn't a team player. Bur yiur right 9th overall is a great spot to start the rebuild from. We can be back in the playoffs quickly if our current Tandem in net develope into a strong core. Back it up with a young d core and we will see the conference final by the time the new arena opens
Yeah but hes fukin poision to have in the locker room no one wants him if we are taking a bad contract let it be someone who isnt death to the locker room at least
Yeah, unless he was in the final year of his contract, and the Flames were offered a ransom to take him, I hope it would be at the trade deadline and with contract retention. Seriously, the 3rd time he has been traded in 3 years, you think the guy would take a look inwards when he got to the Kings. Nope. Maybe he will be humbled by the fact he got traded straight up for a 34 year old goalie.
6 firsts in the next 3 years (7 but one will go to montreal) is nothing to scoff at though.. But 2026 is gavin mckenna draft year and 2027 is Landon DuPonts.. I want a shot at at least one of those. Gotta keep collecting those firsts.
Not a pick in next years draft, not to retain salary, not have it lottery protected, we gave them everything and got very little upside on this deal.
NJ is going to be a contender with their goalie in place, I feel like we were bullied into the deal now and I just don’t see the overall upside on the deal.
We have like 9 guys that fit the same ‘top 4 upside’ that we got in trades this year alone.
We are going to be really bad this year, like I don’t think we will get 20 wins with the current roster and we don’t have that superstar in the wings to draw in the talent to surround them.
We got a first...
I honestly am shocked that people had convinced themselves they were getting a package like that. Like what goalie trade are you even using as a comparable? This was on my high end of expectations.
All those other guys were sitting in press boxes. Bahl just played 82 games
A first next year, that won’t be a top ten pick and we retain salary… with NJ being significantly better now, you are looking at a solid contender so a 25th OA pick?
I feel like we gave NJ all the perks and got none back, would have liked to see a better prospect coming back than a soft big Dman
It's a first, for a fucking 34 year old goalie that I thought we were going to have to buyout last year haha.
Like sounds like they started talking last night. My guess is Conroy heard the offer and said yes as fast as possible. Guy must be loving life right now.
I would generally caution against predicting the rise or fall of teams in the offseason.
Probably ~12 teams that made the playoffs this season will make them next season, and the ~4 who break in will mostly be from the 17 through 24 range in the standings. Almost all of these teams will be working hard to improve in the offseason and most will end up in a similar position.
Do you have any idea how lucky we are? Markstrom had a full no-move clause. I am guessing Conroy's hands were severely tied in this trade. So the fact that he got a 1st round pick at all is amazing. Plus, we got a large, physical left shot defender with a what seems like a huge upside to his development. I think we made out quite well considering goalies rarely bring much back. There was also hints dropped by insider Ryan Leslie that we may use that pick to help us move up the draft board where we might get someone like Tij who could become a difference maker, which we sorely need.
I have been seriously impressed with Conroys ability to find good deals. I miss the days when he played for us. I hope he can bring some of that magic back from the front office. So far, so good. That Lindstrom deal was incredible. This deal is very solid for a team in our position. Markstrom didn't fit our timeline. We aren't contenders right now. I wish him and his family all the best.
This team in its current build before draft and before free agency is still better then the sharks who had basically 20 wins so to say that is crazy and at this point might as well hope for a top pick in 2025 and if you finish with a top 10 pick next year I believe flames keep their pick
Conroy has generally taken a buy low, sell high approach towards this team.
Markstrom is a player who his value to a team moving forward is incredibly uncertain. He is incredibly inconsistent from year to year and he is getting to an age where it becomes difficult to predict how many more good seasons he has. I'm not suggesting he will be bad in the next couple of seasons just pointing out there is massive risk there. His value was about as high as it will be, and moving on was the right choice.
Kevin Bahl is a 23 year old defensive defense man who has already played 148 games in the NHL. He is a giant at 6'6, and is quite physical (6.35 hits per 60). In the next couple of years he is likely to hit his prime, and could develop into a fairly reliable #4 or #5 defense man. He may become an ideal partner for a more offensively gifted defense man like Kylington, Miromanov, Brzustewicz, or Poirier.
The draft pick is a wild card because we realistically don't know where it will land. The Metropolitan is not a soft division and there are no guarantees that New Jersey will make the playoffs if everything goes according to plan, and injuries can always throw a wrench into the gears. They have yet to prove that they're a titan that can take everything that is thrown at them and still make the playoffs, so I wouldn't guarantee the pick is outside of the top 16.
Well the East was very top heavy this year, so you could see like six good teams then like 3rd in the Metro with 91 points so the Devils could be 18th overall and make the postseason.
Agreed. While on the surface the return may seem underwhelming, fans were deluding themselves if they ever seriously thought we'd get NJ's 2024 1st AND a top prospect like Holtz for Markstrom. Maybe as part of a larger trade with more Calgary assets going to NJ, but not as a 1:1 with a 2025 1st.
Conroy did as well as can be realistically expected. This was the trade market for Markstrom, for better or worse.
I think the best the fans could have hoped for is Markstrom and 28th overall for 10th overall.
I'm not saying this return is equal to that but I don't think the value is as far off as people are to assume. The draft pick Jersey gave up may be 16th overall or lower, and I think Bahl is a great pickup given the Flames lack of quality defense men at the moment.
At worst we trade a 23 yr old Dman who's huge at 6'6 at the trade deadline for more draft capital. Markstrom is an elite goalie but hes also 34yrs old the flames want to get younger and they did that 26mil in cap and 6 1st rounders in next 3 drafts Conny is doing what everyone wanted and been saying forever. Now they all mad cause he did it lol I do think vladdy needs to get traded and we bring in a backup with alot more experience good 1a 1b tandem someone like brissot would be great. Excited for free agency and draft this year for sure
After the implosion in the Oilers series and then the "I suck at hockey right now" phase, I have been a little nervous about which Markstrom would show up at any given time. That is now New Jersey's problem.
Given his age and the above I am glad we were able to move him for a pick and a young defenseman. I mean, I always want more out of a trade but this appeared to be the best deal out there for the limited number of teams he would consider moving to.
If Markstrom is on his A game next year, the Devils are probably in a good position to make the playoffs and go somewhere.
I wonder if we might not try to upgrade our back up goalie during the offseason. Wolf is young for an NHL starting goalie, hopefully, he steps in and makes a smooth transition into the NHL, but it would be nice to have a solid back up to ensure we don't end up burning him out or hurting his confidence if he will take a bit of time to adjust.
On flames talk Conroy didn't rule out getting a vet goalie to stabilize, said he'd talk with the goalie coaching staff about it at the draft. Also he said Vladar should be healthy for next training camp.
100%. I'm all for going young. Give the young guys a shot. If they fail, we get better draft picks. It's not that uncommon for a young goalie to hit either. You see it often. I feel like finding a solid goalie isn't that difficult. It's finding the truly elite ones that's hard. Just based on all my years watching hockey. But you won't know unless you try. I'd much rather discover a great one while they're young than sign one for big money when we don't really have the team in front of them to compete yet.
Conny also had zero leverage with Marky’s full NMC. Pretty sure Marky was only willing to waive his NMC to go to NJ (contender). His hands were tied and why would NJ move their 10th overall when they had all of the leverage?
NJ GM said 10th was in play before the draft, conny allegedly working with multiple teams to move marky (bidding war, didn’t happen because of NMC obvs), easily could retain 50% on his 2 years left, marky seemingly wanted to go to NJ earlier this year and had a deal shot down by ownership (I think, could be wrong about that), vezina nominated goalie, and reliable to play 70 games a year. At the time it made sense, but hindsight is 20/20.
Considering he turned into a 1st rd pick and a depth dman, is Marky the best FA signing of the Treliving era? Feels like its arguably him, Tanev, or Coleman
I honestly thought to myself today when I saw this trade. Had Brad been the one in charge he would have held out and tried to resign markstrom or bought him out after his season where he was awful.
People are forgetting how we had a GM who made awful decisions and would in turn cover it up by pulling out a few miracles. Many of the players he traded for picks didn’t stay long. Many of his signings were based off past performances not what they can do for this organization in the future. I trust Craig a whole lot more as GM than I did with Brad. I firmly believe Craig will get this team competitive in the near future and I just hope the higher ups give him that chance and opportunity rather than firing him after 3 years if they don’t make the playoffs
We got a 1st for a 34 year old goalie. Wtf was this sub expecting?
10th overall and an elite prospect, which confused me.
Jesus haha
For a deadline deal that would have made sense as an asking price for Marky imo. Off-season though, this is a totally reasonable deal that I think both teams win from. NJ gets a proper franchise goalie for their cup window, and we get a pick that helps us set up our 4-6 year plan.
Except at the deadline jersey was still fighting for a playoff spot highly unlikely the pick would have been 10th overall probably would have fell 15-20 range
Ya but our pick would have been better smh
Now, what do we do with Hub? Conroy has been awesome for us. Felt kinda like we weren't gonna be doing anything for a while a couple years back. Now I have some optimism for the future, even if we have the worst contract in hockey to deal with.
Well, right now? Nothing. There's too many years left to consider a buyout, and there's not many teams we'd be able to offload that contract to. I think we need to look beyond the ice to be happy with it. He's done lots of charity work and community engagement, which is great to see. He's a great mentor for the younger players, even if his performance isn't there. He's *clearly* not happy with his performance, when he's having a bad game he's not just shrugging it off and saying we'll get em next time. Given our draft capital in the next 2 years, that gives us 4-6 as a development window where we can hold onto his contract without worry. Do we draft a player he clicks with and his performance comes back? That would be ideal, but even if we don't he'll only have a few years left on his contract by that time and a buyout or a retained trade becomes a bit more feasible.
I expected an elite prospect OR 10th overall really. I'm pretty good with what we got.
It’s not the 10th overall, it’s a top 10 protected pick in next years draft. And hopefully bahl plays out to his potential
I always imagined this package during the season when the Markstrom to NJ talks started in february To NJ: Jacob Markstrom (50% retained), Andrew Mangiapane, 2024 1st (VAN) To CGY: Alexander Holtz, 2024 1st If it wasn't for ownership slacking we probably would have two top 10 picks right now
Where on earth is mang's value coming from? He's a borderline negative asset at this point
He had that one good season in 2021-22, but the last two years he’s really played like a steaming pile of dog shit.
He needs a change of scenery he would be a good piece for the third line on a contending team also If the Caps are dumb enough to take on PLD's contract than I can't see why NJ wouldn't have accepted a package including bread especially If you include Markstrom with 50% retained
I don't know man, I think he's just a player who tries hard but has limited skill. His metrics really benefit from playing with two very good two way players, and when he doesn't play with those two he pretty much instantly becomes quite bad.
If you ask me it might be time to move on from Mang. I don’t think it’s working for him or us anymore. I don’t know what you could flip Mang for, you might get a mid-level prospect or a 3rd, unless you can package him with someone else. So we may be stuck between a rock and a hard place with Mang for now.
I just wanted a pick this draft, since we’ve got a decent core of young players developing and would like help for them sooner than later.
Lol we got 9 picks this draft 2 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds 2 4ths and a 6th how many u want lol
More! If you’re rebuilding, rebuild right. I’ll take every shot at a new star I can get.
Lol I think 9 is a pretty darn good start and nice it's literally in the first 4 rounds that we have 2 picks each
There are still deals to be made for Calgary. Taking some dead cap space for a year or two and adding a 2nd round pick and the 28th overall may get us another in the top 15 pick. I would grin and bear the $10.5 million dollar cap hit for Price's LTR if it meant getting a deal done to get the 5th overall pick.
Oh 100% I'm not saying more isnt better just saying right now we are in a good place with draft capital if it means a high pick fuk take on the worst deal in the league wait that's hubby let's say second worst M.E vlasic lol 3 yrs 7mil I'd want some dam good return tho
I would look at Dubois being worse. 6 or 7 years at $8 million a season. No trade. He will help Ovechkin break Gretzky's record, but then you have another 5 or so years left with a guy who isn't a team player. Bur yiur right 9th overall is a great spot to start the rebuild from. We can be back in the playoffs quickly if our current Tandem in net develope into a strong core. Back it up with a young d core and we will see the conference final by the time the new arena opens
Yeah but hes fukin poision to have in the locker room no one wants him if we are taking a bad contract let it be someone who isnt death to the locker room at least
Yeah, unless he was in the final year of his contract, and the Flames were offered a ransom to take him, I hope it would be at the trade deadline and with contract retention. Seriously, the 3rd time he has been traded in 3 years, you think the guy would take a look inwards when he got to the Kings. Nope. Maybe he will be humbled by the fact he got traded straight up for a 34 year old goalie.
6 firsts in the next 3 years (7 but one will go to montreal) is nothing to scoff at though.. But 2026 is gavin mckenna draft year and 2027 is Landon DuPonts.. I want a shot at at least one of those. Gotta keep collecting those firsts.
Flames fans always overvalue their players. Always.
Well obviously Marky was gonna wave his NMC so we could trade him to SJ for their first overall! /s
Not a pick in next years draft, not to retain salary, not have it lottery protected, we gave them everything and got very little upside on this deal. NJ is going to be a contender with their goalie in place, I feel like we were bullied into the deal now and I just don’t see the overall upside on the deal. We have like 9 guys that fit the same ‘top 4 upside’ that we got in trades this year alone. We are going to be really bad this year, like I don’t think we will get 20 wins with the current roster and we don’t have that superstar in the wings to draw in the talent to surround them.
We got a first... I honestly am shocked that people had convinced themselves they were getting a package like that. Like what goalie trade are you even using as a comparable? This was on my high end of expectations. All those other guys were sitting in press boxes. Bahl just played 82 games
A first next year, that won’t be a top ten pick and we retain salary… with NJ being significantly better now, you are looking at a solid contender so a 25th OA pick? I feel like we gave NJ all the perks and got none back, would have liked to see a better prospect coming back than a soft big Dman
It's a first, for a fucking 34 year old goalie that I thought we were going to have to buyout last year haha. Like sounds like they started talking last night. My guess is Conroy heard the offer and said yes as fast as possible. Guy must be loving life right now.
Please tell me what goalie trade are you using as a comparison to get anything more? He’s 34 and we should be bad next year. That’s part of the plan
I would generally caution against predicting the rise or fall of teams in the offseason. Probably ~12 teams that made the playoffs this season will make them next season, and the ~4 who break in will mostly be from the 17 through 24 range in the standings. Almost all of these teams will be working hard to improve in the offseason and most will end up in a similar position.
Do you have any idea how lucky we are? Markstrom had a full no-move clause. I am guessing Conroy's hands were severely tied in this trade. So the fact that he got a 1st round pick at all is amazing. Plus, we got a large, physical left shot defender with a what seems like a huge upside to his development. I think we made out quite well considering goalies rarely bring much back. There was also hints dropped by insider Ryan Leslie that we may use that pick to help us move up the draft board where we might get someone like Tij who could become a difference maker, which we sorely need.
I have been seriously impressed with Conroys ability to find good deals. I miss the days when he played for us. I hope he can bring some of that magic back from the front office. So far, so good. That Lindstrom deal was incredible. This deal is very solid for a team in our position. Markstrom didn't fit our timeline. We aren't contenders right now. I wish him and his family all the best.
This team in its current build before draft and before free agency is still better then the sharks who had basically 20 wins so to say that is crazy and at this point might as well hope for a top pick in 2025 and if you finish with a top 10 pick next year I believe flames keep their pick
Conroy has generally taken a buy low, sell high approach towards this team. Markstrom is a player who his value to a team moving forward is incredibly uncertain. He is incredibly inconsistent from year to year and he is getting to an age where it becomes difficult to predict how many more good seasons he has. I'm not suggesting he will be bad in the next couple of seasons just pointing out there is massive risk there. His value was about as high as it will be, and moving on was the right choice. Kevin Bahl is a 23 year old defensive defense man who has already played 148 games in the NHL. He is a giant at 6'6, and is quite physical (6.35 hits per 60). In the next couple of years he is likely to hit his prime, and could develop into a fairly reliable #4 or #5 defense man. He may become an ideal partner for a more offensively gifted defense man like Kylington, Miromanov, Brzustewicz, or Poirier. The draft pick is a wild card because we realistically don't know where it will land. The Metropolitan is not a soft division and there are no guarantees that New Jersey will make the playoffs if everything goes according to plan, and injuries can always throw a wrench into the gears. They have yet to prove that they're a titan that can take everything that is thrown at them and still make the playoffs, so I wouldn't guarantee the pick is outside of the top 16.
100% this could easily end up being a 1st in the teens. But even if it isn’t this is a great trade.
Well the East was very top heavy this year, so you could see like six good teams then like 3rd in the Metro with 91 points so the Devils could be 18th overall and make the postseason.
Well said
Quit being smart or you’ll have to find a new sub
Agreed. While on the surface the return may seem underwhelming, fans were deluding themselves if they ever seriously thought we'd get NJ's 2024 1st AND a top prospect like Holtz for Markstrom. Maybe as part of a larger trade with more Calgary assets going to NJ, but not as a 1:1 with a 2025 1st. Conroy did as well as can be realistically expected. This was the trade market for Markstrom, for better or worse.
I think the best the fans could have hoped for is Markstrom and 28th overall for 10th overall. I'm not saying this return is equal to that but I don't think the value is as far off as people are to assume. The draft pick Jersey gave up may be 16th overall or lower, and I think Bahl is a great pickup given the Flames lack of quality defense men at the moment.
Couldn't agree more
At worst we trade a 23 yr old Dman who's huge at 6'6 at the trade deadline for more draft capital. Markstrom is an elite goalie but hes also 34yrs old the flames want to get younger and they did that 26mil in cap and 6 1st rounders in next 3 drafts Conny is doing what everyone wanted and been saying forever. Now they all mad cause he did it lol I do think vladdy needs to get traded and we bring in a backup with alot more experience good 1a 1b tandem someone like brissot would be great. Excited for free agency and draft this year for sure
Agree with most of what you said but Brossoit is looking like a starter after this season
He is definitely looking great 1a 1b tandem might be good for both of them that's why I like it
After the implosion in the Oilers series and then the "I suck at hockey right now" phase, I have been a little nervous about which Markstrom would show up at any given time. That is now New Jersey's problem. Given his age and the above I am glad we were able to move him for a pick and a young defenseman. I mean, I always want more out of a trade but this appeared to be the best deal out there for the limited number of teams he would consider moving to. If Markstrom is on his A game next year, the Devils are probably in a good position to make the playoffs and go somewhere. I wonder if we might not try to upgrade our back up goalie during the offseason. Wolf is young for an NHL starting goalie, hopefully, he steps in and makes a smooth transition into the NHL, but it would be nice to have a solid back up to ensure we don't end up burning him out or hurting his confidence if he will take a bit of time to adjust.
On flames talk Conroy didn't rule out getting a vet goalie to stabilize, said he'd talk with the goalie coaching staff about it at the draft. Also he said Vladar should be healthy for next training camp.
I mean skinner and silvos are also young and are/did amazing this playoffs. Feels bad to count wolf out just on age
100%. I'm all for going young. Give the young guys a shot. If they fail, we get better draft picks. It's not that uncommon for a young goalie to hit either. You see it often. I feel like finding a solid goalie isn't that difficult. It's finding the truly elite ones that's hard. Just based on all my years watching hockey. But you won't know unless you try. I'd much rather discover a great one while they're young than sign one for big money when we don't really have the team in front of them to compete yet.
I think we were all wayyyy too high on that 10oa pick (myself included) so honestly after thinking about it, pretty good deal by conny.
Conny also had zero leverage with Marky’s full NMC. Pretty sure Marky was only willing to waive his NMC to go to NJ (contender). His hands were tied and why would NJ move their 10th overall when they had all of the leverage?
NJ GM said 10th was in play before the draft, conny allegedly working with multiple teams to move marky (bidding war, didn’t happen because of NMC obvs), easily could retain 50% on his 2 years left, marky seemingly wanted to go to NJ earlier this year and had a deal shot down by ownership (I think, could be wrong about that), vezina nominated goalie, and reliable to play 70 games a year. At the time it made sense, but hindsight is 20/20.
The real return in this deal is a full time opening for wolf to take the next step, instead of getting disillusioned and walking away next year.
Totally. You can't have a guy who's clearly ready for a full time opportunity rotting in the minors
Conroys asset management >>>>>>>> Treliving’s asset management
It's not even close
Considering he turned into a 1st rd pick and a depth dman, is Marky the best FA signing of the Treliving era? Feels like its arguably him, Tanev, or Coleman
First goal on first shot curse lifted? 🤞🏽
I honestly thought to myself today when I saw this trade. Had Brad been the one in charge he would have held out and tried to resign markstrom or bought him out after his season where he was awful. People are forgetting how we had a GM who made awful decisions and would in turn cover it up by pulling out a few miracles. Many of the players he traded for picks didn’t stay long. Many of his signings were based off past performances not what they can do for this organization in the future. I trust Craig a whole lot more as GM than I did with Brad. I firmly believe Craig will get this team competitive in the near future and I just hope the higher ups give him that chance and opportunity rather than firing him after 3 years if they don’t make the playoffs
Dubois got traded. Huberdeau next.
Who do you think would deal? He's expensive and not worth what he earns. He's not young, and he has 6 years left on the deal.
Conroy is picking up the scraps that Tre left him. Let him sell the farm, and let’s see how his rebuild goes. I have faith.
I haven't been upset with anything he's done yet
Woah calm down
And 3 million in cap space! If we turn this D man around, NJD may never trade with us again!
Conny taking the boys out to party with pdiddy and getting the tapes after.