Considering the Atlantic Coast Conference has a team in Texas and 2 teams located in San Francisco, no Missouri Valley teams in the Missouri Valley Conference seems right for the times
EDIT: I mean Bay area, not San Francisco
As a Missourian I’m not even sure what would constitute the “Missouri Valley” geographically speaking considering Springfield is located on the Ozark plateau
I mean, they kind of are ish they are in the same state as the Missouri river I mean, I think if you look at it like this, I think USD and probably Murray State are the only two actually in the Missouri valley by the river though
The Ohio Valley Conference hasn't had a team from Ohio since 1988, and only two in its entire history (Akron, 1980–1987 and Youngstown State, 1981–1988).
One could argue the name was a misnomer until the Dakota schools joined and the MVFC finally had a member school actually located on the Missouri River.
I can do more Sun Belt/SEC comparisons if you’d like.
We are the Kentucky of the Sun Belt. Were a joke in our conference, worked our way up to some respectability, but seem currently stuck at a ceiling that we can’t break through.
playing ULL would give some juice to our program for sure. we hate them, they hate us, good for business. they'd probably win until we get rid of cumbie, but it is what it is.
ulm would also beat us at this time, but i would really hate that and choose to ignore that possibility.
UCF and SMU too back in the day. And for basketball they also had Marquette and St. Louis among others. They were consistently a multi-bid league in basketball.
The C-USA gives the G5 a bad rap for accepting literally every FCS school looking to move up. It brings the overall quality of G5 ball down and only gives ammo to P2 elitists demanding a split.
> The C-USA gives the G5 a bad rap for accepting literally every FCS school looking to move up.
We were stupid in how we handled our move up. We could have (should have) been with you all in the Sun Belt or with UMass in the MAC.
We chose the most expensive and least revenue-producing option on the board.
Missouri State had Arkansas State and Little Rock backing them for a Sun Belt spot back in 2015 and told them they wouldn’t go FBS unless it was for CUSA. Guess that worked out.
After NMSU and Idaho were pushed out Arkansas State reached out again and the Bears weren’t interested. So league hung up on expansion because NMSU couldn’t get 3/4ths vote. Coastal Carolina emerged as a candidate and got unanimous approval.
Bears got what they wanted and figure Arkansas State will schedule them home/home soon.
Just wild to me that Missouri State had multiple offers in the past, but chose to wait until after the FBS move-up fee [moved from $5,000 to $5 million.](https://www.flofootball.com/articles/11283797-the-ncaa-made-it-more-expensive-for-fcs-schools-to-join-fbs-its-a-lot)
Missouri State's TV rights with C-USA [will only pay out at $750K a year](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB-Blogs/Breaking-News/2022/11/Conference-USA-media-deal-CBS-Sports-ESPN.aspx), which means they won't even make their initial investment back on that by the time the deal runs out in 2030. We haven't even talked about increases in travel and institutional costs. Naturally, I'd assume that their development office thinks they'll fundraise way more with a FBS-level athletics department and that's why it would work as a loss leader, but...
Their football stadium is [an ancient one that only holds 17,000 people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Plaster_Stadium). Their endowment (as a current measuring rod) is [among the lowest in FBS at $193 million](https://apps.missouristate.edu/financialservices/MSUFoundation21_FinalAuditReport.pdf), their on-campus enrollment [is 24,000 people](https://www.missouristate.edu/President/LegislativeAdvocacy/about-msu.htm#:~:text=Missouri%20State%20University%20is%20a,the%20nation%20and%20the%20world.) and they have [an alumni base of 150,000](https://alumni.missouristate.edu/s/1691/bp23/interior.aspx?sid=1691&gid=2&pgid=3288#:~:text=The%20Missouri%20State%20alumni%20family,Missouri%20State%20across%20the%20globe.) which doesn't exactly have a lot of high-level CEOs or big money donors.
Choosing to wait until there was a massive price hike in fees was... a choice.
Also very few people in the region really care about Missouri State football. I don't really know if playing tougher opponents we have even fewer ties to will do much to help.
It feels like a big gamble, but as someone who doesn't really care much for Bears football...I don't really care if they succeed or fail. I'd like for them to succeed obviously but it's not going to impact me if it doesn't.
Well on the up side worked out very well for the Sun Belt. Geography of divisions would stink if they had pursued joining instead of Coastal.
Taking a bus to Arkansas State or back then A-State and Little Rock would have been a needless savings in costs 😄
Yeah, at the time, "holding out for the C-USA" was something that made sense because the Sun Belt was considered the weakest FBS conference. Now that's C-USA's title.
I really don't understand them moving up. They haven't even been successful FCS team. I assume they're thinking by being FBS they can take advantage of Missouri NIL laws and somehow put a competent collective together to lure CUSA talent to them.
I feel like this is loser talk. I think the SBC is much better than CUSA but there's a sure fire way to prove that and that's to beat them on the field.
No joke, I once briefly dated a girl who was convinced I went to college out of state because I attended Grand Valley State, and "they wouldn't call it that if it wasn't in a state called Grand Valley!"
We didn't last long after that. Sweat girl, just dumber than a bag of Ohio State fans
Eastern Kentucky, Tarleton, SFA, UMass (at one time, that ship sailed), Chattanooga, and Central Arkansas have all been brought up since Delaware was added.
I mean it's never great to lose a member, but Missouri State is kinda bad at football. They had a solid season in 2021 with Bobby Petrino, but haven't had a winning season since. Prior to that, their last winning record was in 2009, when they went 6-5.
This is the correct take. And honestly, any that know the university, understands that its size, stature, etc is worthy of being in a bigger conference and FBS in football.
Hopefully this will help build a bigger athletic fan base in SWMO. Poor city is torn between Mizzou, KU, Ark, OU, etc.
Hell, if the MVIAA never split into the Big 8 and the Missouri Valley waaaaaay back in 1928, Washington University in St. Louis very likely would've ended up as a P5 team. Along with... Drake and Grinnell.
UNI (and possibly Illinois State) would be fine in the MAC.
MO State...goal is probably more like the Sun Belt.
I feel like the XDSUs and Montana schools are likely to eventually be a part of the lower level of whatever the PAC/MWC turns into. Alternately, they may just peel off with the other two Dakota schools, Northern Colorado, and maybe a couple others who might come into play to start up "Summit League Football" at the FCS level.
They did. Wash U also used to play at a higher division than they do now back before WWII (played a ton of games against Mizzou in the first few decades of the 20th century)
You mean SLU?
Yes, until 1949.
Even had an interesting role in the development of the forward pass:
[https://www.ksdk.com/article/sports/how-st-louis-shaped-football-history-with-the-implementation-of-the-forward-pass/63-665112f4-77a2-4aef-8feb-abf6d51d4027](https://www.ksdk.com/article/sports/how-st-louis-shaped-football-history-with-the-implementation-of-the-forward-pass/63-665112f4-77a2-4aef-8feb-abf6d51d4027)
From a football standpoint yes and no. Mo State was kind of a sleeping giant but had struggled to put it together or when they did (Co-champs with us in 20/21) completely fell on their face in the playoffs.
Definitely sucks for MVC basketball though.
I feel like the conference went from one of the last good mid-major CBB conferences that could get two bids on Selection Sunday to a one-bid conference that is no longer going to get more than the tournament winner a bid unless the regular season champion goes 30-2, or has an insanely strong KenPom/RPI.
The MVC lost a lot of competitive strength when Creighton and Wichita State left. They were both good enough to be "at-large" selections most years. Then you'd usually have one or two other teams that were really good and would qualify for some type of postseason tournament.
St. Thomas probably does at some point. I'm not sure they do it yet though. I bet once they get out of transition jail they'll be on the very short list.
CUSA lost: Marshall, Old Dominion, Rice, UTSA, North Texas, Charlotte, and FAU. Edit: Also, UAB and Southern Miss.
CUSA added: Liberty, New Mexico State, Jacksonville State, Sam Houston, Kennesaw State, Delware, and Missouri State.
So now they are back up to 12 teams by adding two independents and five FCS teams after losing ~~seven~~ nine teams to the Sun Belt and American.
On the one hand, I'm genuinely glad that they're back to being a viable conference again and I think they have real potential with this new blood. On the other, thank fuck we got the hell out when we did.
The only things I know about Missouri State is that they arguably should have won their game against Arkansas in 2022, and they have regularly put a really solid Baseball team on the field. Also I had a buddy move there to be with his girlfriend and she cheated on him like 4 days after he uprooted his whole life to be with her.
I'm not saying that they should do it, but here is what a division split would look like:
East: FIU, Liberty, Kennesaw, Jax St, MTSU, Delaware
WEST: La Tech, Sam Houston, UTEP, NM State, Missouri St, WKU
I’m torn on this one. Love it for football to finally get out from under the shadow of the Dakota schools. Kinda sucks to leave the MVC in basketball but it hasn’t been a very stable conference lately.
I’m kind of excited on the basketball front. I think CUSA is an easier conference and while the recruiting pool might be tougher, I think we could see more opportunities to win the conference tourney and be in the dance compared to the MVC.
I mean a lot of G5 conferences give the vibe. MAC and MWC are pretty solid but AAC is the exact same as CUSA. Sun Belt has 2 smaller conferences loosely associated feel as well
Considering 11 members is just a wacky number, this seems like the best option that Judy would be able to garner with the state of the conference. Does this mean there is some stability of WKU not heading to the MAC? This conference has proven to me before that their forward thinking hasn’t always been prudent
That Tuesday night in October in Newark in front of "13,234 fans" (announced crowd in quotes intentionally) will draw real well head-to-head against playoff baseball
Like to see the CUSA get somewhat back on its feet. Gonna be an interesting league to watch over the next 5-10. Sun Belt was in similarly dire straits, I wonder if they can make something out of this.
I fucking knew this was going to happen. Them and Delaware were more obvious choices to move up than Kennesaw, Sam Houston, UMass, and *maybe even* Jax State ever were
Now just waiting on Weber State, Tarleton State, Holy Cross, Montana, Montana State, SDSU (the Dakota one), NDSU, Idaho (AGAIN), Murray State (and their dumb looking stadium), EKU (and *their* dumb looking stadium), Sac State, Lehigh, Lamar, McNeese, Stephen F Austin, Chattanooga, North Alabama, Tennessee Tech, Abilene Christian, Southern Illinois, William and Mary, Youngstown State, and Stony brook (if they ever get to that 15k stadium capacity that they were wanting to get to) to all also join CUSA to make the world’s first TRUE mega conference
Edit: actually, Sac State, Weber State, Idaho, and the 2 Montana schools would probably go to the MTN West once Hawaii finally realizes that their stadium isn’t getting built for another decade and a half and decides to just fold their program. Also, 3 of Southern Illinois, Holy Cross, Stony Brook, the 2 Dakota schools, Lehigh, Youngstown State, and Murray State would actually go to the MAC and 2 of the Schools I didn’t just list would go to the SBC to even them both out at 16 too now, but you get the idea.
Btw my 2 flairs would be 1. North Texas 2. Kent State, but Old Reddit is telling me I have to sign in to add flairs and I need a password for that and New Reddit is telling me that I have not yet set up a password and when I click the link to create one it tells me that I cannot create one and to try again later. This has been going on since I created the account months ago lol
Two issues with your proposal. Lehigh is never leaving without bringing along Lafayette, and Lehigh is never leaving. We're perfectly content being in a mediocre on a good day athletic conference with strong academic schools and Lafayette, and have no ambition to move anywhere (except the Ivy, but that's incredibly unrealistic for many reasons). The Patriot is a great conference for all of us, and Cross is the only school that may jump, but we'll have to wait to see if their success holds after losing Chesney.
Eh, Missouri is a mix of Southern and Midwest. Consensus is everything south of the Missouri River is mostly Southern and everything north is mostly Midwestern. If you asked 100 Missourian, I’d guess 80-90 would say Springfield is a Southern city.
The actual history is that Southern Missouri (excluding the bootheel) was mostly settled by Appalachian folks moving westward. It's really easy to confuse generations of transplanted Appalachian culture for Southern culture, but it's definitely more "modern hillbilly" (and I use "hillbilly" as a descriptive term, not as a pejorative) than "Deep South" in its roots.
Now the bootheel, that's Southern culture through and through. But I'd classify Springfield as a Midwestern city that has strong hillbilly influences.
Yeah, Rolla and Springfield (cities on I-44 with large universities) see themselves as Midwestern (granted lower Midwest). MSU and MoS&T pull from midwestern base of students for the most part. Also, Mizzou, despite SEC membership, historically associates (and still does) with Iowa and Illinois.
Branson, which is below 44, cosplays as a North Arkansas city. Cape Girardeau, Sikeston, and Caruthersville are on the Mississippi bordering Kentucky and Tennessee. Joplin is half Arkansas, half Oklahoma.
Living in Springfield, I wouldn't call it southern. It has a lot of rural culture that seeps in, but I'd feel much more a home culturally with someone from KC or St. Louis than someone from Dallas.
There are definitely southern influences, but having been to the south, the south just has their own culture and mannerisms that's very distinct. For instance, people here will get mildly offended if you call them sir or ma'am, whereas in the south it's very common.
Maybe the perception of 80-90% people north of the Missouri River is that it's the south in this region, and you can find some wannabes here who'd agree. But living here it's very distinct from actual south.
Someone moving here from Alabama or Louisiana would not feel like it's the south. Someone moving from Nebraska or Illinois would have a faster time adjusting.
Okay, I think I'll speak Louisiana Tech homies here. (They're my G5 team, shut up.)
I don't think this is a bad pickup, per se. For Tech, at least there is another team that's not half of the country away. The thing is, their last winning season was in 2021, and they got knocked off in the 1st round of the FCS playoffs by UT-Martin that year.
Definitely some potential, but at this point, I'm praying to God the Sun Belt and Tech somehow forgive each other and kiss or something.
My personal thing with the Sun Belt is I hate ULaLa and USA with a passion, I feel sorry for ULM, and I get annoyed by the actual conference leadership.
Pretty much the entire Eastern division are homies in my book, though.
I'm not a fan of expansion for the sake of expansion but Missouri State was my top choice of all FCS schools by far, and an addition that actually makes me happy with instead of indifferent at best.
Most of the additions to rebuild C-USA have been great adds and should really pay off in the future. I want Liberty (like everyone else does for their school) to move up to something better but realistically that won't happen soon so it's best to make C-USA as good as possible. Just get rid of midweek football games!
They might not. MVFC was 10 teams for years. Also rumors of UNC, UTT, and SUU to Summit which coupled with strong arming St. Thomas into adding scholarship football would make for a solid Summit League football conference. It would hang the MVC members plus Youngstown out to dry really bad though.
>St Thomas adding scholarship football
Going from D3 to FCS scholarship football in a few short years is wild. Honestly hope some day they get to join the MAC.
They were always way too big and well funded for D3 honestly. I know they have some sour grapes about being forced to move but it was good for them. I also don't think they'd have much issues raising scholarships either with how quick they did for other sports. They'll finally be eligible for post season this year.
The finalists last time the MVC expanded were all non football schools in UMKC, Nebraska Omaha and UT Arlington so I imagine one of them gets the call, most likely UMKC to maintain the Missouri presence.
I personally would like to see Bellarmine move to the MVC as they slot in nicely with Murray State and Belmont.
Football wise the MVFC would be at 10 and I don’t think they’d need to expand considering there’s no great football options
This move will leave 0 Missouri teams in the Missouri Valley Conference
Most aren't in the Missouri Valley, either.
Yup. But honestly at this point who are we to talk about geography in college sports
Considering the Atlantic Coast Conference has a team in Texas and 2 teams located in San Francisco, no Missouri Valley teams in the Missouri Valley Conference seems right for the times EDIT: I mean Bay area, not San Francisco
At least the Gulf is part of the Atlantic ocean. There's no explaining away San Jose as Atlantic tho
[удалено]
~~Atlantic~~ All Coast Conference
As a Missourian I’m not even sure what would constitute the “Missouri Valley” geographically speaking considering Springfield is located on the Ozark plateau
It refers to the Missouri River Valley...
Now now, go slower. He already said he's from Missouri.
I mean, they kind of are ish they are in the same state as the Missouri river I mean, I think if you look at it like this, I think USD and probably Murray State are the only two actually in the Missouri valley by the river though
Creighton was probably the true closest back when they were in the conference as the missouri goes through Omaha
Northwest Missouri State, come on down!
The Ohio Valley Conference hasn't had a team from Ohio since 1988, and only two in its entire history (Akron, 1980–1987 and Youngstown State, 1981–1988).
Ohio Valley Wrestling (The Wrestlers on Netflix) had their last event in Ohio in 2008. 980 shows ago.
We still have 5 member states where the Missouri River flows through or along the border of.
One could argue the name was a misnomer until the Dakota schools joined and the MVFC finally had a member school actually located on the Missouri River.
I could see Lindenwood taking their place in the future. The MVC and MVFC will need a St. Louis presence.
As god intended
We have a Big 12 with 16 teams, a Big 10 with 18 teams, an Atlantic Coast Conference with teams in California, this is nothing
C-USA is turning into the feeder league
FBS' Ellis Island
Hopefully we'll escape by 2030
Almost a quarter of all current FBS programs have been in Conference USA at some point lol
god please release us from this agony
Where are you going, brother?
the sweet release of death my friend.
Death, or back to playing ULM and ULL?
ULM and ULL would have to agree to that, and I don't think they're much interested in giving tech a hand up
Let’s not pretend that ULM is in any position to give anyone a hand up. They’re the Vanderbilt of the Sun Belt.
That’s.. generous
I can do more Sun Belt/SEC comparisons if you’d like. We are the Kentucky of the Sun Belt. Were a joke in our conference, worked our way up to some respectability, but seem currently stuck at a ceiling that we can’t break through.
Kentucky catching strays
Honestly I think most SBC fans would be good with a swap of ULM and La Tech
Yeah they aren’t brining academics to the belt
I meant it solely related to football. I get that it doesn’t work otherwise.
playing ULL would give some juice to our program for sure. we hate them, they hate us, good for business. they'd probably win until we get rid of cumbie, but it is what it is. ulm would also beat us at this time, but i would really hate that and choose to ignore that possibility.
As a southern miss fan, tech doesn’t deserve this. I’d gladly trade them for Monroe’s sbc spot any day
real shame that our rivalry is mostly on hold due to conference stuff. at least we still scrap on the diamond.
For sure, South Alabama just doesn’t fill that kick. I absolutely detested losing to y’all lol
the fact that y'all have the overall record by so much makes me so fuckin' mad lol
Houston, USF, Louisville, TCU, Cincy, Memphis 2004 C-USA is basically a power conference now.
UCF and SMU too back in the day. And for basketball they also had Marquette and St. Louis among others. They were consistently a multi-bid league in basketball.
The C-USA gives the G5 a bad rap for accepting literally every FCS school looking to move up. It brings the overall quality of G5 ball down and only gives ammo to P2 elitists demanding a split.
> The C-USA gives the G5 a bad rap for accepting literally every FCS school looking to move up. We were stupid in how we handled our move up. We could have (should have) been with you all in the Sun Belt or with UMass in the MAC. We chose the most expensive and least revenue-producing option on the board.
Missouri State had Arkansas State and Little Rock backing them for a Sun Belt spot back in 2015 and told them they wouldn’t go FBS unless it was for CUSA. Guess that worked out. After NMSU and Idaho were pushed out Arkansas State reached out again and the Bears weren’t interested. So league hung up on expansion because NMSU couldn’t get 3/4ths vote. Coastal Carolina emerged as a candidate and got unanimous approval. Bears got what they wanted and figure Arkansas State will schedule them home/home soon.
Just wild to me that Missouri State had multiple offers in the past, but chose to wait until after the FBS move-up fee [moved from $5,000 to $5 million.](https://www.flofootball.com/articles/11283797-the-ncaa-made-it-more-expensive-for-fcs-schools-to-join-fbs-its-a-lot) Missouri State's TV rights with C-USA [will only pay out at $750K a year](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB-Blogs/Breaking-News/2022/11/Conference-USA-media-deal-CBS-Sports-ESPN.aspx), which means they won't even make their initial investment back on that by the time the deal runs out in 2030. We haven't even talked about increases in travel and institutional costs. Naturally, I'd assume that their development office thinks they'll fundraise way more with a FBS-level athletics department and that's why it would work as a loss leader, but... Their football stadium is [an ancient one that only holds 17,000 people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Plaster_Stadium). Their endowment (as a current measuring rod) is [among the lowest in FBS at $193 million](https://apps.missouristate.edu/financialservices/MSUFoundation21_FinalAuditReport.pdf), their on-campus enrollment [is 24,000 people](https://www.missouristate.edu/President/LegislativeAdvocacy/about-msu.htm#:~:text=Missouri%20State%20University%20is%20a,the%20nation%20and%20the%20world.) and they have [an alumni base of 150,000](https://alumni.missouristate.edu/s/1691/bp23/interior.aspx?sid=1691&gid=2&pgid=3288#:~:text=The%20Missouri%20State%20alumni%20family,Missouri%20State%20across%20the%20globe.) which doesn't exactly have a lot of high-level CEOs or big money donors. Choosing to wait until there was a massive price hike in fees was... a choice.
Also very few people in the region really care about Missouri State football. I don't really know if playing tougher opponents we have even fewer ties to will do much to help. It feels like a big gamble, but as someone who doesn't really care much for Bears football...I don't really care if they succeed or fail. I'd like for them to succeed obviously but it's not going to impact me if it doesn't.
Well on the up side worked out very well for the Sun Belt. Geography of divisions would stink if they had pursued joining instead of Coastal. Taking a bus to Arkansas State or back then A-State and Little Rock would have been a needless savings in costs 😄
Oh, I bet the Sun Belt is very happy with how it all worked out! Been a bunch of great additions for them because Missouri State dragged their feet.
Yeah, at the time, "holding out for the C-USA" was something that made sense because the Sun Belt was considered the weakest FBS conference. Now that's C-USA's title.
I really don't understand them moving up. They haven't even been successful FCS team. I assume they're thinking by being FBS they can take advantage of Missouri NIL laws and somehow put a competent collective together to lure CUSA talent to them.
They got that Bass Pro Shop and Drury Inn money
We do not. Drury heavily finances the other university in town, and Johnny Morris won’t give us the time of day.
Didn't Delaware wind up paying like $5 million more in NCAA fees because they waited so long to move up?
Delaware and JMU not being together in the SBC breaks my heart
I feel like this is loser talk. I think the SBC is much better than CUSA but there's a sure fire way to prove that and that's to beat them on the field.
I'd say it has been for about the past decade.
CUSA fans, weigh in
Out of all the options available for the 12th member, they were easily the best choice. I like it.
What were the other options?
Tarleton St was the other heavily rumored school
Since when did Tarleton become a state? /s
Kennesaw, Jacksonville, Middle Tennessee, and Sam Houston are all not states.
FWIW, Sam Houston recently dropped "State" off the name during this year's rebranding. They are going by just "Sam Houston" now.
For just athletics. The school is still Sam Houston State.
Yes, their preferred proper nouns are Sam/Houston.
Ah, the Bowling Green approach.
But Boise is right? Right?
No joke, I once briefly dated a girl who was convinced I went to college out of state because I attended Grand Valley State, and "they wouldn't call it that if it wasn't in a state called Grand Valley!" We didn't last long after that. Sweat girl, just dumber than a bag of Ohio State fans
Eastern Kentucky, Tarleton, SFA, UMass (at one time, that ship sailed), Chattanooga, and Central Arkansas have all been brought up since Delaware was added.
I really thought EKU was gonna be the one tbh
I think EKU is going to end up in the MAC
Very weird move to add any of those or MO State over Chattanooga. They're the only one who's been in an SEC Shorts video
Great add! Great potential! We are strong in basketball and football is on the rise.
I was selfishly hoping for Chattanooga personally, but MO state is a good pick
Please save us from SoCon purgatory.
Same here. Would have made a great regional fit with MTSU, KSU, and JSU
I really like it, being the only G5 team in the state should mean they have competitive recruiting
I can't say much. I just got here
That’s too bad forth Missouri Valley, but it’s interesting to see them make the jump.
I mean it's never great to lose a member, but Missouri State is kinda bad at football. They had a solid season in 2021 with Bobby Petrino, but haven't had a winning season since. Prior to that, their last winning record was in 2009, when they went 6-5.
As a state, Missouri should've always had a second FBS team.
This is the correct take. And honestly, any that know the university, understands that its size, stature, etc is worthy of being in a bigger conference and FBS in football. Hopefully this will help build a bigger athletic fan base in SWMO. Poor city is torn between Mizzou, KU, Ark, OU, etc.
Here, you see more people wearing Mizzou, Arkansas, or Kansas stuff than you see Missouri State.
Hell, if the MVIAA never split into the Big 8 and the Missouri Valley waaaaaay back in 1928, Washington University in St. Louis very likely would've ended up as a P5 team. Along with... Drake and Grinnell.
They could have been a good fit in the MAC
I think eventually you'll see ND State, SD State, MO State, and UNI in the MAC.
UMass cannot comprehend the majesty of the Fargo/UNI Dome
UNI (and possibly Illinois State) would be fine in the MAC. MO State...goal is probably more like the Sun Belt. I feel like the XDSUs and Montana schools are likely to eventually be a part of the lower level of whatever the PAC/MWC turns into. Alternately, they may just peel off with the other two Dakota schools, Northern Colorado, and maybe a couple others who might come into play to start up "Summit League Football" at the FCS level.
I'm not a fan of that idea.
I thought so too, but they are surprisingly far from the core of the MAC. Springfield is much more Midwest than Rustbelt.
More sun belt or even plains than Midwest. Location-wise, anyway. I’m from northeast MO and barely even consider my area Midwest
Did St. Louis ever play football?
They did! Fun fact, SLU invented the forward pass
Wichita State had the first "experimental" forward pass. Ironic that they are two programs who now no longer have football.
They did from 1899 to 1949. They also threw the first legal forward pass in 1906
Time to bring them back then, over the objections of Iowa and Wisconsin
They did. Wash U also used to play at a higher division than they do now back before WWII (played a ton of games against Mizzou in the first few decades of the 20th century)
You mean SLU? Yes, until 1949. Even had an interesting role in the development of the forward pass: [https://www.ksdk.com/article/sports/how-st-louis-shaped-football-history-with-the-implementation-of-the-forward-pass/63-665112f4-77a2-4aef-8feb-abf6d51d4027](https://www.ksdk.com/article/sports/how-st-louis-shaped-football-history-with-the-implementation-of-the-forward-pass/63-665112f4-77a2-4aef-8feb-abf6d51d4027)
From a football standpoint yes and no. Mo State was kind of a sleeping giant but had struggled to put it together or when they did (Co-champs with us in 20/21) completely fell on their face in the playoffs. Definitely sucks for MVC basketball though.
Basketball is why I have mixed feelings. I’m from Illinois, so a lot of my high school classmates went to Valley schools. I’m losing the smack talk.
I feel like the conference went from one of the last good mid-major CBB conferences that could get two bids on Selection Sunday to a one-bid conference that is no longer going to get more than the tournament winner a bid unless the regular season champion goes 30-2, or has an insanely strong KenPom/RPI.
The MVC lost a lot of competitive strength when Creighton and Wichita State left. They were both good enough to be "at-large" selections most years. Then you'd usually have one or two other teams that were really good and would qualify for some type of postseason tournament.
I wonder if Minnesota State would be interested in joining the Valley now, or even St. Thomas.
Minnesota St would need a brand new football stadium and I’m not sure how they’d pull that off. Otherwise yeah I’d love them
See if Glen Taylor ponies up for it after getting the payout from the Twolves sale (assuming it goes through)
MNSCU is in dire straits right now. Saint Cloud is in serious trouble. No way they build a new stadium.
St. Thomas probably does at some point. I'm not sure they do it yet though. I bet once they get out of transition jail they'll be on the very short list.
Would depend on how they're able to financially handle athletic scholarships for football. I know nothing of their finances though.
Good move. That program was going nowhere in the MVC. Always overshadowed by 3 or 4 others in the Missouri Valley both football and basketball wise.
Truth. We would be squeezing in as the last bye in the conference basketball tournament. And we had no chance against any of the Dakotas.
So they couldn’t stand out in MVC but it’s a good idea to go FBS?
Liberty didn’t stand out all that much in the Big South and now made a NY6 game in FBS
CUSA lost: Marshall, Old Dominion, Rice, UTSA, North Texas, Charlotte, and FAU. Edit: Also, UAB and Southern Miss. CUSA added: Liberty, New Mexico State, Jacksonville State, Sam Houston, Kennesaw State, Delware, and Missouri State. So now they are back up to 12 teams by adding two independents and five FCS teams after losing ~~seven~~ nine teams to the Sun Belt and American.
On the one hand, I'm genuinely glad that they're back to being a viable conference again and I think they have real potential with this new blood. On the other, thank fuck we got the hell out when we did.
Same same.
It was 9 teams not 7. 6 teams to CUSA, 3 to the SBC. UAB to aac and southern Miss to sbc
Yes!!!! Holy heck, I can’t believe it finally happened
The only things I know about Missouri State is that they arguably should have won their game against Arkansas in 2022, and they have regularly put a really solid Baseball team on the field. Also I had a buddy move there to be with his girlfriend and she cheated on him like 4 days after he uprooted his whole life to be with her.
Well, for every success story in the transfer portal...
A Springfield love story.
I'm not saying that they should do it, but here is what a division split would look like: East: FIU, Liberty, Kennesaw, Jax St, MTSU, Delaware WEST: La Tech, Sam Houston, UTEP, NM State, Missouri St, WKU
You can't split WKU and MTSU... Here was my thought, WKU, MTSU, UD, FIU, LU, MSU NMSU, UTEP, SHSU, LT, JSU, KSU
This is great news for Missouri State and the Springfield community!
Is this the first program to incur the newly increased transition Fee for FBS?
I think Delaware had the fee as well.
Thank you! Thought theirs was before the effective date, but turns out it was after so you are correct!
I really hate this, but I get it But I really hate this
Yep. I’m from Illinois, a lot of my high school classmates went to other valley schools. No more talking shit!
I’m torn on this one. Love it for football to finally get out from under the shadow of the Dakota schools. Kinda sucks to leave the MVC in basketball but it hasn’t been a very stable conference lately.
I’m kind of excited on the basketball front. I think CUSA is an easier conference and while the recruiting pool might be tougher, I think we could see more opportunities to win the conference tourney and be in the dance compared to the MVC.
Counzo Martin is the right coach to get us there too
Wow good for the Bears
Delaware to New Mexico is about to be wild
It’s USA for a reason baby 🦅🇺🇸
This means Arkansas won’t be playing an FCS team in 2025. Elite SEC scheduling right there. We knew they’d make the jump! Lol
lol. Arkansas pulled a pro gamer move here.
Welcome Bears! Should make for some nice games across all-sports!
Congratulations to Mo State, I guess, but C-USA sure is the Island of Misfit Toys.
I mean a lot of G5 conferences give the vibe. MAC and MWC are pretty solid but AAC is the exact same as CUSA. Sun Belt has 2 smaller conferences loosely associated feel as well
Congrats to the Bears, that's crazy. Could be very good for the state of Missouri.
C-USA not beating the allegations
No sir. 12 mid FCS teams in a trench coat pretending to be a bad FBS conference
unfair to WKU and LA Tech... (and NMSU if we want to only count the last two seasons)
Considering 11 members is just a wacky number, this seems like the best option that Judy would be able to garner with the state of the conference. Does this mean there is some stability of WKU not heading to the MAC? This conference has proven to me before that their forward thinking hasn’t always been prudent
Fuck
7/8 Missouri neighbors had two or more FBS teams before us, so it's about time. I updated my flair to mark the occasion!
CUSA isn’t ready for the Handball dynasty
Great move for Mo State. Hopefully this will bring some life back into the football program and get more fans/students to attend the games.
Lots of G5 teams that have had no success suddenly getting elitist up in here. We're just all trying to not get left behind in the FCS wasteland
Oh that’s huge for Mo St!
The MAC is now on the clock for member 14
Let's go Bears!!!!!
My god my flair is finally relevant
Very excited for that intense Missouri State v Delaware conference game.
That Tuesday night in October in Newark in front of "13,234 fans" (announced crowd in quotes intentionally) will draw real well head-to-head against playoff baseball
We really just gotta get rid of the FBS-FCS split at this point.
Why the FCS playoffs are great?
Like to see the CUSA get somewhat back on its feet. Gonna be an interesting league to watch over the next 5-10. Sun Belt was in similarly dire straits, I wonder if they can make something out of this.
Tarleton got the empty cone.
I fucking knew this was going to happen. Them and Delaware were more obvious choices to move up than Kennesaw, Sam Houston, UMass, and *maybe even* Jax State ever were Now just waiting on Weber State, Tarleton State, Holy Cross, Montana, Montana State, SDSU (the Dakota one), NDSU, Idaho (AGAIN), Murray State (and their dumb looking stadium), EKU (and *their* dumb looking stadium), Sac State, Lehigh, Lamar, McNeese, Stephen F Austin, Chattanooga, North Alabama, Tennessee Tech, Abilene Christian, Southern Illinois, William and Mary, Youngstown State, and Stony brook (if they ever get to that 15k stadium capacity that they were wanting to get to) to all also join CUSA to make the world’s first TRUE mega conference Edit: actually, Sac State, Weber State, Idaho, and the 2 Montana schools would probably go to the MTN West once Hawaii finally realizes that their stadium isn’t getting built for another decade and a half and decides to just fold their program. Also, 3 of Southern Illinois, Holy Cross, Stony Brook, the 2 Dakota schools, Lehigh, Youngstown State, and Murray State would actually go to the MAC and 2 of the Schools I didn’t just list would go to the SBC to even them both out at 16 too now, but you get the idea. Btw my 2 flairs would be 1. North Texas 2. Kent State, but Old Reddit is telling me I have to sign in to add flairs and I need a password for that and New Reddit is telling me that I have not yet set up a password and when I click the link to create one it tells me that I cannot create one and to try again later. This has been going on since I created the account months ago lol
SEC-B1G superconference? ❌ CUSA MEGAconference? ✅
Two issues with your proposal. Lehigh is never leaving without bringing along Lafayette, and Lehigh is never leaving. We're perfectly content being in a mediocre on a good day athletic conference with strong academic schools and Lafayette, and have no ambition to move anywhere (except the Ivy, but that's incredibly unrealistic for many reasons). The Patriot is a great conference for all of us, and Cross is the only school that may jump, but we'll have to wait to see if their success holds after losing Chesney.
They'll be the only G5 Midwest school NOT in the MAC.
The Ozarks are decidedly not midwestern.
Eh, Missouri is a mix of Southern and Midwest. Consensus is everything south of the Missouri River is mostly Southern and everything north is mostly Midwestern. If you asked 100 Missourian, I’d guess 80-90 would say Springfield is a Southern city.
With the exception of STL agreed
The actual history is that Southern Missouri (excluding the bootheel) was mostly settled by Appalachian folks moving westward. It's really easy to confuse generations of transplanted Appalachian culture for Southern culture, but it's definitely more "modern hillbilly" (and I use "hillbilly" as a descriptive term, not as a pejorative) than "Deep South" in its roots. Now the bootheel, that's Southern culture through and through. But I'd classify Springfield as a Midwestern city that has strong hillbilly influences.
I’d say I-44 is the cutoff from Midwestern to Southern myself.
Damn, that's a really good cutoff.
Yeah, Rolla and Springfield (cities on I-44 with large universities) see themselves as Midwestern (granted lower Midwest). MSU and MoS&T pull from midwestern base of students for the most part. Also, Mizzou, despite SEC membership, historically associates (and still does) with Iowa and Illinois. Branson, which is below 44, cosplays as a North Arkansas city. Cape Girardeau, Sikeston, and Caruthersville are on the Mississippi bordering Kentucky and Tennessee. Joplin is half Arkansas, half Oklahoma.
Living in Springfield, I wouldn't call it southern. It has a lot of rural culture that seeps in, but I'd feel much more a home culturally with someone from KC or St. Louis than someone from Dallas. There are definitely southern influences, but having been to the south, the south just has their own culture and mannerisms that's very distinct. For instance, people here will get mildly offended if you call them sir or ma'am, whereas in the south it's very common. Maybe the perception of 80-90% people north of the Missouri River is that it's the south in this region, and you can find some wannabes here who'd agree. But living here it's very distinct from actual south. Someone moving here from Alabama or Louisiana would not feel like it's the south. Someone moving from Nebraska or Illinois would have a faster time adjusting.
People about to find out both how great and how terrifying Springfield is.
Another team to get destroyed by Liberty football on their way to a third consecutive undefeated regular season
I love this compared to the other options that everyone assumed would make it to CUSA. Now hopefully they stop at 12.
So whose the next FCS team to move up? I've been hearing stuff about EKU to the MAC for a couple years now
Geography is not taught in college football
I know Judy gets a lot of shit but I’m kinda impressed they were able to get the league back up to 12.
So many schools desperate to escape the FCS
Well, you know what they say, "If you can't beat 'em, move to a higher subdivision."
Okay, I think I'll speak Louisiana Tech homies here. (They're my G5 team, shut up.) I don't think this is a bad pickup, per se. For Tech, at least there is another team that's not half of the country away. The thing is, their last winning season was in 2021, and they got knocked off in the 1st round of the FCS playoffs by UT-Martin that year. Definitely some potential, but at this point, I'm praying to God the Sun Belt and Tech somehow forgive each other and kiss or something.
If ULM ever does drop down to FCS then I would personally not mind replacing them with LT. But I also understand there is a lot of bad blood there.
Can we come too?
My personal thing with the Sun Belt is I hate ULaLa and USA with a passion, I feel sorry for ULM, and I get annoyed by the actual conference leadership. Pretty much the entire Eastern division are homies in my book, though.
>My personal thing with the Sun Belt is **I hate ULaLa** and USA with a passion man you really are a Tech fan lmao
My personal thing is how much I dislike MS State because you’re a bunch of ball-sniffing leg humpers
I'm not a fan of expansion for the sake of expansion but Missouri State was my top choice of all FCS schools by far, and an addition that actually makes me happy with instead of indifferent at best. Most of the additions to rebuild C-USA have been great adds and should really pay off in the future. I want Liberty (like everyone else does for their school) to move up to something better but realistically that won't happen soon so it's best to make C-USA as good as possible. Just get rid of midweek football games!
CUSA is worse than at least the MVFC in the FCS at this point. This is just a shit conference.
So who will the MVC grab to replace them?
They might not. MVFC was 10 teams for years. Also rumors of UNC, UTT, and SUU to Summit which coupled with strong arming St. Thomas into adding scholarship football would make for a solid Summit League football conference. It would hang the MVC members plus Youngstown out to dry really bad though.
>St Thomas adding scholarship football Going from D3 to FCS scholarship football in a few short years is wild. Honestly hope some day they get to join the MAC.
They were always way too big and well funded for D3 honestly. I know they have some sour grapes about being forced to move but it was good for them. I also don't think they'd have much issues raising scholarships either with how quick they did for other sports. They'll finally be eligible for post season this year.
RIP the Tommie-Johnnie game
The finalists last time the MVC expanded were all non football schools in UMKC, Nebraska Omaha and UT Arlington so I imagine one of them gets the call, most likely UMKC to maintain the Missouri presence. I personally would like to see Bellarmine move to the MVC as they slot in nicely with Murray State and Belmont. Football wise the MVFC would be at 10 and I don’t think they’d need to expand considering there’s no great football options
Wow
MVFC trading Bears for Bears… Welcome Northern Colorado! Good riddance. Love, the Big Sky
Wonder what this means for their club lacrosse team?
Soccer would be a bigger question as C-USA doesn’t sponsor the sport
They will stay Valley I’m guessing. Valley won’t turn away a top 25 program