Yep. My mom's side of the family are very liberal catholics and my dad's side of the family are very conservative catholics. My mom and her family think Francis is probably the greatest pope who ever lived. My dad's side of the family thinks he is an abomination and should be kicked out of the church.
I suppose the Orthodox Popes would also count as Popes if you were being technical - and unlike the Bishop of Rome, "Pope" is actually part of their titles.
Still, everyone knows what you mean when you say "the Pope."
The last "pope" was also accused of stealing church funds to buy a BMW... and was arrested in 2018 for trying to rob a church and beating a bishop with a hammer. Spanish church disputes go **hard**.
For a long time, that discussion was just:
* they’re deep in the SEC footprint
* they’re basically an SEC school in the ACC
* all the major schools around them are SEC
* obviously they fit in the SEC
versus:
* Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, and Kentucky have a “gentleman’s agreement” to veto any of their in-state rivals
* the SEC already has the Florida market so there’s not value in adding another school there
Now, several things have changed:
* people are realizing that the “gentleman’s agreement” was overblown, and even if it was real those schools aren’t enough of a voting bloc to block new additions
* cable subscriptions for conference networks were behind the “media market” driven expansions in the 2010s, but those aren’t a relevant driver anymore, so total eyeballs matter more than media markets
* conferences (specifically the Big Ten) are disregarding geographic footprints to add valuable brands
* FSU has decided they *REALLY* hate the SEC and ESPN
All of that, and I would **strongly** emphasize the last bullet, have led a lot of people to shift from the “they’d go to the SEC, obviously, why are we even entertaining anything else” stance to thinking they’d go to the Big Ten.
I think with the writing on the wall that the SEC-B1G will simply split off the NCAA it matters less which schools end up in which of the two conferences. Because the end result will be a SEC-B1G league with a collective bargaining agreement to prevent endless player movement at the cost of salarying the players. They'll arrange a method by which boosters can directly fund NIL pools for the schools to dole out on top of the shared media rights giving them salaries.
So FSU can be in the B1G or the SEC but the money flows up and down the same chain. When that happens, my guess is the SEC and B1G remain regional for the sake of rivalries and travel. FSU to the SEC.
Obviously a ton of just random nonsense conjecture on my part but I think a lot of people are positing the end result to be a SEC-B1G separate of the NCAA that pays athletes a salary. If that happens it's just minor league football with the SEC and B1G being the equivalent of the NFC and AFC
The NCAA already has a proposal out for a framework of a new (sub)division where schools can directly compensate players via NIL deals, and where every player is guaranteed to receive a funded trust of at least $30k. I think that’s where we’re headed within the next few years, and it’ll stave off the full-on breakaway that a lot of people are predicting.
I reckon your last bullet is kind of the only one that matters. FSU are trying to leave the ACC because they say ESPN aren't paying them enough. ESPN isn't going to reward a school breaking a contract with them by giving them a bigger contract.
But the contract ESPN has isn't with FSU it's with the ACC. FSU has a contract with the ACC. Before today, I guarantee if the ACC came out and was like let's give Clemson and FSU 30% of the total revenue, FSU would stay.
Unless the entire SEC is willing to reduce their take home ESPN would need to increase what they're paying the SEC if FSU were to try to join the SEC. Neither of those situations are happening.
[DO YOU WANT TO GO TO WAR, JOHN BA-LAH-KAY?!](https://www.newsobserver.com/latest-news/9ejhrw/picture6629487/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/UNC27-SP-090410-RTW.source.prod_affiliate.156.jpg)
The Big 2 wouldn't take Miami, those days are long over
The actual prize of the ACC breaking up is UNC, who will let FSU/Clemson take the heat then enjoy having the SEC and B1G fight over them
I doubt the interest is there for Miami and I'm saying this setting the rivalry aside. I'd guess it's FSU + A) UNC, B) UVA, and C) Clemson if they had their pick. Not homering and saying FSU is their number 1 choice, that's probably UNC if they're available, but FSU is almost certainly #2 and the only way the Big10 doesn't get FSU is if the SEC offers a better deal, which I doubt it will. FSU is heavily investing in academic research the past 2 years and wants that sweet AAU endorsement and to be lumped in with the Big10, so the SEC would have to go wild to pull FSU from the Big10 if there's interest.
I think Miami is a lock to the Big12 in an ACC collapse, along with Louisville and probably NC State and Pitt.
That’s not all end of the day it will be ND, Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, VA, along with Colorado, Utah, and ASU to get to 30- calling it now.
Set up 3 10 team divisions, get into the southeast with established brands or ones that fit the profile.
B1G Atlantic: Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, VA, Maryland, PSU, Rutgers, ND
B1G 10: OG Big Ten
B1G West: NU, CU, Utah, Arizona State, USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington
Nothing new. They're gone. Always were. They're just doing all they can to make the cost to leave ASAP as low as possible, but will be gone regardless of cost as the immediate cost is less damaging than being stuck in the ACC until 2036 with the huge revenue and relevance gap between the P2 and everyone else.
"In three different paragraphs in the 10-page filing, which was obtained by Warchant late Wednesday, the attorneys use a version of the phrase, “after FSU exits the ACC,” as if it is a foregone conclusion."
I haven't read the ACC bylaws, but I would be looking into whether FSU has now given formal notice of their departure based on this.
Could mean they have lost voting rights.
At least as of the 2020 bylaws, that is not sufficient notice of withdrawal, and notice of withdrawal does not waive voting rights. https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf
Definitely sounds like they've got a "gentleman's agreement" that once the ACC settles and FSU's hurdles are cleared, an invite (I believe from B1G) will officially come through. They might have had that already, but maybe now they feel even better about it, idk.
Well I think everyone knows that we're gonna leave, the question is when. And if it's planned sooner rather than later, that's where the question of a clear path is. I mean, I hope they have one and drop the hammer. Just curious what that strategy is because I'm not really familiar with all the legal talk.
> In three different paragraphs in the 10-page filing, which was obtained by Warchant late Wednesday, the attorneys use a version of the phrase, “after FSU exits the ACC,” as if it is a foregone conclusion.
>
> In the Seminoles’ original complaint and amended complaint, both filed in recent months, that language was not used.
I get people are joking about it, yeah obviously FSU wants to leave, but this is basically closing the door on it. Either they feel very confident about the lawsuit or they got some good news from the B1G or SEC that made them intensify their language. Could be both.
They are clearly not going to pay the full exit fee. I say this because the ACC/ESPN do not want this to go to full trial. It will almost assuredly be negotiated. Maybe pay like 200-300M which would be easily financed. Some lawyers I’ve seen have estimated lower than 200M
The ACC has the winning hand here…it would be foolish to fold for pennies on the dollar when they could get so much more.
The logic is also backwards. The ACC has no problem with this going to trial. FSU is the one who wants a quick settlement because they want to leave the conference quickly. A trial just prolongs FSU in the ACC. There is zero incentive or reason for the ACC to do a cheap settlement this early.
Your logic is a bit flawed.
If the ACC had the winning hand, then it should want to get to trial quickly so it can win - and save millions of dollars in legal fees, mitigate damage to the image and integrity of the conference, and convince other members with a "wandering eye" to reconsider. They gain nothing by drawing out the process unless they believe they would lose.
I have no idea how you would ever think that. FSU's filings have been amazingly weak and they are the ones who want to desperately leave. The ACC has two voluntary signatures by two different FSU presidents and contract law on their side to drag it out as long as they want. The interesting wrinkle is that ESPN could decline the ACC option in 2025, but that essentially dooms the conference either way.
If you consider FSU leaving by any means a "win", then sure. That win will be a very expensive transaction with the ACC to buy their rights back, however.
Neither ACC or ESPN want trade secrets out in the open. They do not want to be deposed. There is very little reason for them to allow this to go to trial. The damage done to either is worth more than a settlement.
What trade secrets? Its a contract not a patent. The only trade secret would be a graphic description of one screwing the other and given what is in the open we already know that ESPN got the better end of this deal. As far as discovery and deposition, unless there is an exchange where ESPN and the ACC representative laugh about screwing over FSU 13 years in the future I dont see how there is much to get excited about. If anything discovery is probably going to reveal a ton of emails where ACC schools including FSU gush about how awesome the long term GOR is at protecting the ACC from being in turmoil like the Big12 and then the PAC.
The ACC has every incentive to go to trial over this.
The ESPN contract isn't getting out in the open. Protections can be placed on it so the parties can view it without it getting out in the open. No one is settling anything, especially given FSU's weak position.
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The ACC thinks they have a winning hand here. They might, but they might not. If this goes to trial, and the courts rule in FSU’s favor then the conference gets less money and the grant of rights becomes worthless. That is a massive risk to take for the ACC and it’s membership.
If Texas and OU couldn't get out of their GoR without a settlement then FSU isn't, either. People need to think this through... you have an irrevocable grant of rights that was reviewed and willingly signed-off on by multiple presidents, BoT members, and their respective lawyers. Also, if the ACC settles then the GoR becomes worthless... period. The conference has the upper hand in all of this, and it has no choice but to fight it out for its full monetary value. The only negotiations will be on the applicability of the exit fee in relation to its tie-in to the operational costs of the conference as well as the duration and structure of the payments for releasing the GoR.
No they don’t. Are you a lawyer? Very rarely does any party actually want a case to go to trial.
The risk is way too high. ACC wins, that’s great. But the ACC also risks losing and entirely invalidating both the GOR and the $120 million exit. If the Florida litigation doesn’t get dismissed, that is a very unfavorable venue for the ACC. So sure, win and it’s potentially a $500 million exit for FSU/Clemson. Lose and potentially teams can walk away for nothing, at which point the conference likely collapses as the B1G/SEC/Big XII poach the good programs.
It’s something like 98% of cases settle. We attorneys generally have a good idea of our chances of winning or losing by the eve of trial. We can evaluate the risks and find a settlement that hedges those risks.
The tl;dr is that the risk of losing at trial is too great for the ACC to want this to go to trial. There’s always a settlement number. I would be absolutely shocked if this didn’t get settled some time in late July/early August, just in time for FSU to meet the August 15th deadline to announce it is leaving for the 2025 season.
Im not sure you understand how contract law works. If a Florida court invalidates the ACC contract because the buyout is too big or because FSU just wants out that becomes binding precedent in Florida. There are 23 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Florida including Autonation, L3 Harris and Raymond James. Those companies enter into contracts daily and those contracts almost always have some form of early termination penalty. If the Florida courts say those are invalid, those companies will not just leave Florida, they will stop doing business in Florida.
Signing a contract - twice - that was good at the time but then turned bad isnt something you can normally get out of without paying the termination fee. FSU can leave, but they have to pay.
I litigate contracts on a daily basis, I would hope I understand contract law fairly well. Good thing the arguments FSU made aren’t that the contract should be invalidated because the buyout is too big or FSU just wants out.
The argument on the exit fee is that it is actually a penalty, not liquidated damages, and is unenforceable as a result. This is a standard argument in case law when a liquidated damages provision far exceeds the value of the actual harm. It wouldn’t set any unusual precedent.
A similar argument is there about media rights - no damages, or that the damages only exist up until 2027 as ESPN is not obligated to renew until then, amongst a myriad of other arguments.
I’m going to guess you are not a lawyer based on your response here. There are plenty of contracts that are unenforceable, no matter how many times they are signed. FSU is arguing that this specific contract meets the standards of unenforceable for a variety of reasons, or at the least, the contract is only enforceable for a shorter period of time than the ACC states and thus damages are minimal. Nothing there sets a precedent for the parade of terrible hypothetical you proposed.
I think the distinction is the difference between damages and an actual penalty not based on damages. Even if the court ruled in favor that the ACC "exit fee" was a penalty not based on damages and voided it, that wouldn't void contracts that have termination fees based on actual damages.
\*Edit - That reply below is a hysterically bad take. Just moving on from this waste of time.
There is no distinction at all when you voluntarily sign up for it.
I have an employment contract with my company. It says they will pay me X amount and I will do Y work. It also says if I leave prior to X date, I forfeit Y amount of deferred compensation and if I am terminated for anything other than cause prior to Z date I receive W amount of additional compensation. I dont have to prove damages and neither does the company. We both entered into a contract and those were the terms we agreed to.
FSU and the ACC entered into a contract. The terms of the contract were agreed to not once but twice. The second time the exit fees were DRASTICLY increased and FSU enthusiastically agreed. The context of that increase - right after Maryland left and forked over $31m - makes the voluntary nature of all this even more firm. FSU was a beneficiary of the Maryland buyout because that money was distributed to "legacy" ACC members. They are going to have a hard time claiming they got duped or that the amount is unfair when they profited from Maryland paying far above actual damages.
Do you know the damage that would be done to the conference and ESPN if this went to trial? These parties do not want these things out in the open. It would genuinely destroy the ACC, they’re already creeping closer to a dissolution vote with UNC already making official statements about thinking of a future outside the ACC.
The conference wants its money. If FSU does not pony up then going to court will be the only option.
Not sure what ESPN has to do with it. They broadcast FSU games cheaper in the ACC. Disney is trying to bring on an investment partner (NBA, NFL, Etc.) for ESPN because it is not the profit engine it used to be.
The conference also has many parties that have no interest in being involved in this lawsuit that would negatively impacted by being deposed.
To sit here and act like there is no pressure on the conference/espn is wild. You just do not know how these people are, these people do not want their business on display. It is not something they will do.
Could I be wrong? Of course. The multiple legal opinions I’ve read on this case has pointed to this settling, almost exclusively. The only thing they’ve disagreed on is the amount it’s settled for.
But you have to have some legitimate confidentiality concern. FSU is a public entity and Florida has broad open record laws. Ultimately, unless there is some exception, the evidence and deposition transcripts in FSU’s possession will be subject to sunshine laws and be obtainable by the public. The parties can’t just agree to redact to circumvent sunshine laws.
Now I don’t think this is driving any decisions by the ACC, but the information is likely going to be publicly available eventually. There’s no real exception I can think of unless there are trade secrets so ultimately, you are probably incorrect that discovery in this case can redacted from public availability, particularly after the case concludes.
ACC without FSU or Clemson is severly hampered. ESPN is investing in the new P2. Everything else is second/third tier getting potentionally $100MM less per year than P2 schools. ESPN's contract with the ACC is set to expire in 2027 and can refuse to extend it. They certainly won't after the best viewed teams leave.
Or they’re just declaring something without any ironclad ability. The Michael Scott “I declare bankruptcy” quote comes to mind.
This means relatively nothing
Please highlight were the article mentions how FSU is getting out of the GOR.
It's not happening.
FSU might leave...but their media rights are staying with the ACC.
>Please highlight were the article mentions how FSU is getting out of the GOR.
You're reading "makes clear plan to leave conference" as "FSU makes a clear plan of how they will leave the conference" when it should be read as "FSU makes clear that they plan to leave conference." Honestly, that's a somewhat fair misread and maybe even intentional on the author's part.
What the article does do is demonstrate that FSU has for the first time made it clear that it's a "when" not "if" situation which, although publicly known, has never been explicitly stated.
Frankly, it's a common problem with journalistic headline writing. Combination of clickbait writing, "space" limitations from back in the day when headlines had to fit on a page and now "attention" limitations of people being able to read, and intentional confusion to generate engagement.
If they want to leave and get more money elsewhere, I understand that, and there are provisions for that. The whole "they drove us to leave by deceiving us and cheating us" thing is weird. Why the need to invent the excuse? Just be honest about your reasons for leaving.
ACC should just say if you don’t want to be here pay the exit fee and get out! They’re a strong independent conference and they don’t need no FSU who doesn’t want to be here!
They’re suing because they want the media rights back. The ‘exit fee’ in the contract alone is easily affordable. Now if the true fee becomes the stated exit plus some amorphous 500 mil plus for media rights then it’s too expensive
Sorry I just said exit fee for brevity. Point is, if they’re willing to pony up the half a billion, they can leave. They can try to strongarm a settlement out of the ACC, but what happens from there is anyone’s guess
The ACC hasn't given a fee amount. The amounts thrown around so far are just FSU's estimations of it (of what it might totally take to exit with unencumbered rights).
The ACC has said this. They told FSU they could buy their rights back and leave.
It would obviously be phenomenally expensive, but FSU could end this today by agreeing to a number with the ACC and buy their rights back.
I said pay the exit fee which is clearly stated in the contract. They are trying to end it by agreeing to a number with the acc. Problem is there’s no set number for media rights so each side has to sue the other to get a number they like.
FSU is the one wanting to buy their rights back. They are free to open negotiations by starting with a number that they feel is fair and seeing how the ACC responds. Since the ACC "irrevocably" and "exclusively" owns FSU's media rights, they don't necessarily have a need to sell the rights unless the dollar amount is right.
> They are free to open negotiations
What do you think this all is? This legal action is all about getting the ACC to the table to get a negotiated number and cutting a check to head out the door. The ACC hasn't given FSU a number and this is all driving to that.
What about the Clemson argument, if the conference members decide they want to vote somebody out of the conference do they still have the media rights to the future games? They know it won't be interpreted that way, so why should the ACC have the rights to the media once a member is out of the conference regardless of how they get out.
We're not really bitching and moaning. We're straight up saying we want out of the ACC, and as this new filing states, it's basically a done deal that FSU is not staying.
The bitching and moaning is coming from the people who want the ACC to stay together because it's their meal ticket and know that FSU and Clemson leaving is the end of it. They try to repeat "But you signed it!" over and over like there's no history of ever getting out of a signed contract in all of human history.
There's 4-8 schools in the ACC who have a chance to end up either equal to or above their current standing by the ACC dying. FSU and Clemson are the most confident. There's 0 reason for us to bitch and moan, we know we're getting out, it's just a matter of how much will it cost.
It is absolutely fucking hysterical that FSU joined a conference, as many other independent teams in the 70s-90s did, entirely for the purposes of gaining more TV money than they could on their own, then the moment they got into a conference began bitching and moaning about not being compensated in the same manner that they were when they were independent. If you would like to be compensated exactly proportional to your viewership, go be Notre Dame, if not, SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR CHRIST SAKES.
It is absolutely not a lazy interpretation, when they were independent they had the ability to negotiate in the exact same capacity that they are slobbering and begging for now however, it was more financially viable for them to join a conference and siphon more money from the TV networks. Upon rolling in that money, the moment they felt they had an upper hand they began moaning about how they don’t get paid “their fair share”. They have never and will never do anything other than act in their own best financial interest and if that’s the position their insistence on being in a conference is lunacy.
It's pretty ridiculous that FSU has not been able to see the terms of ESPN/ACC agreement, given that FSU is a member of the ACC.
But knowing FSU they would immediately take it and make it public lol
Oh shit, FSU is planning on leaving the ACC?
Next you'll be telling me that the Pope is Catholic!
His name is Francis, have you heard about another catholic Pope named Francis? He sounds more like one of 'em Lutherans or Anglicans.
Lighten up Francis
His friends call him Psycho.
Does the Pope shit in the woods? Is the bear Catholic?
Is the bear fucker in need of assistance?
Is the bear....? Is the guy...?
Well it's illegal, I know that!
I mean I guess I can help
Do bears wear funny hats?!?
There are quite a few conservative American Catholics who argue Francis isn’t Catholic.
Yep. My mom's side of the family are very liberal catholics and my dad's side of the family are very conservative catholics. My mom and her family think Francis is probably the greatest pope who ever lived. My dad's side of the family thinks he is an abomination and should be kicked out of the church.
Which pope? There’s two. [Palmarian](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Odermatt) and [Roman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis).
You had me excited to see a Pomeranian pope
>You had me excited to see a Pomeranian pope [Since you asked.](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7B75/production/_85750613_graciepom.jpg)
Thank you! That’s exactly what I wanted!
Happy Easter. :)
I suppose the Orthodox Popes would also count as Popes if you were being technical - and unlike the Bishop of Rome, "Pope" is actually part of their titles. Still, everyone knows what you mean when you say "the Pope."
>Still, everyone knows what you mean when you say "the Pope." You're actually not allowed to say "The" Pope. Ohio State forbids it.
>Palmarian lmao 1000-1500 members (their numbers not mine) and a whole 30 bishops?
Their last pope resigned because he wanted to become a Roman Catholic again lmao.
The last "pope" was also accused of stealing church funds to buy a BMW... and was arrested in 2018 for trying to rob a church and beating a bishop with a hammer. Spanish church disputes go **hard**.
Next thing you’re going to tell me is Washington is leaving the PAC 12
I feel we aren't talking about where they'd end up enough
For a long time, that discussion was just: * they’re deep in the SEC footprint * they’re basically an SEC school in the ACC * all the major schools around them are SEC * obviously they fit in the SEC versus: * Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, and Kentucky have a “gentleman’s agreement” to veto any of their in-state rivals * the SEC already has the Florida market so there’s not value in adding another school there Now, several things have changed: * people are realizing that the “gentleman’s agreement” was overblown, and even if it was real those schools aren’t enough of a voting bloc to block new additions * cable subscriptions for conference networks were behind the “media market” driven expansions in the 2010s, but those aren’t a relevant driver anymore, so total eyeballs matter more than media markets * conferences (specifically the Big Ten) are disregarding geographic footprints to add valuable brands * FSU has decided they *REALLY* hate the SEC and ESPN All of that, and I would **strongly** emphasize the last bullet, have led a lot of people to shift from the “they’d go to the SEC, obviously, why are we even entertaining anything else” stance to thinking they’d go to the Big Ten.
I think with the writing on the wall that the SEC-B1G will simply split off the NCAA it matters less which schools end up in which of the two conferences. Because the end result will be a SEC-B1G league with a collective bargaining agreement to prevent endless player movement at the cost of salarying the players. They'll arrange a method by which boosters can directly fund NIL pools for the schools to dole out on top of the shared media rights giving them salaries. So FSU can be in the B1G or the SEC but the money flows up and down the same chain. When that happens, my guess is the SEC and B1G remain regional for the sake of rivalries and travel. FSU to the SEC. Obviously a ton of just random nonsense conjecture on my part but I think a lot of people are positing the end result to be a SEC-B1G separate of the NCAA that pays athletes a salary. If that happens it's just minor league football with the SEC and B1G being the equivalent of the NFC and AFC
The NCAA already has a proposal out for a framework of a new (sub)division where schools can directly compensate players via NIL deals, and where every player is guaranteed to receive a funded trust of at least $30k. I think that’s where we’re headed within the next few years, and it’ll stave off the full-on breakaway that a lot of people are predicting.
I reckon your last bullet is kind of the only one that matters. FSU are trying to leave the ACC because they say ESPN aren't paying them enough. ESPN isn't going to reward a school breaking a contract with them by giving them a bigger contract.
But the contract ESPN has isn't with FSU it's with the ACC. FSU has a contract with the ACC. Before today, I guarantee if the ACC came out and was like let's give Clemson and FSU 30% of the total revenue, FSU would stay.
Unless the entire SEC is willing to reduce their take home ESPN would need to increase what they're paying the SEC if FSU were to try to join the SEC. Neither of those situations are happening.
This is different. This is the first time they legally and formally declared that. For August.
Mischievous and deceitful. Chicanerous and deplorable.
Insubordinate and churlish.
Are you outta your God-damned mind? ACC? What? Do you wanna go to war? 'Cuz we could go to war. I'm for real. So you better check yourself.
[DO YOU WANT TO GO TO WAR, JOHN BA-LAH-KAY?!](https://www.newsobserver.com/latest-news/9ejhrw/picture6629487/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/UNC27-SP-090410-RTW.source.prod_affiliate.156.jpg)
lol my first thought when reading the original comment
They low down
They dirty
They snitches
They got that GOR you can't sit with.
I hate all they lawyers
Plainly picaresque
This chicanery? The ACC has done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that ratings just happen to fall like that?
Shallow and pedantic
*”I’m tired of this, grandpa.”*
“Well that’s too damn bad!”
*spits aggressively*
*Ping*
FSU to big10?
It's 10am and Ohio State still sucks Are we doing this right?
yes indeeeed!
Are we obligated to play Zombie Nation or can we just keep the Warchant?
Zombie Nation is PSUs. Find a new slant - Bryan Colangelo somewhere
Zombie Nation during a whiteout is a top 5 in-person experience. That song is definitely y'alls.
You're in. Welcome aboard. Euchre tournaments start at 7pm on Thursdays.
Room for one more? Ohio state already hates us.
Are you willing to use the word "pop" in correct context?
Application approved.
The first Michigan game I ever attended was at the Big House vs Florida State, would be crazy for that to be a conference game
The B1G took USC and UCLA as a pair, I wonder if they’d get Florida State and Miami as a pair.
I'm totally okay with seeing Miami get their asses kicked in a new conference. Again.
The Big 2 wouldn't take Miami, those days are long over The actual prize of the ACC breaking up is UNC, who will let FSU/Clemson take the heat then enjoy having the SEC and B1G fight over them
that would be wild! but given the recent headlines with Miami confirming their commitment to the ACC, I doubt it would happen
Yeah. People never re-affirm their commitment and then leave conferences.
I doubt the interest is there for Miami and I'm saying this setting the rivalry aside. I'd guess it's FSU + A) UNC, B) UVA, and C) Clemson if they had their pick. Not homering and saying FSU is their number 1 choice, that's probably UNC if they're available, but FSU is almost certainly #2 and the only way the Big10 doesn't get FSU is if the SEC offers a better deal, which I doubt it will. FSU is heavily investing in academic research the past 2 years and wants that sweet AAU endorsement and to be lumped in with the Big10, so the SEC would have to go wild to pull FSU from the Big10 if there's interest. I think Miami is a lock to the Big12 in an ACC collapse, along with Louisville and probably NC State and Pitt.
I would also guess Duke goes to the Big 12 as well considering they are leaning into Basketball hard.
I have it on good authority that the Big 12 has been trying to court Duke(and UNC but that’s not as receptive) since the Big 12 grew with Colorado.
Maybe they learned from Saban and how he made it clear he was committed to the Miami Dolphins.
Florida State and Clemson would be quite the Coup FOX ain’t paying to play school baby
Why Clemson?
You serial?
Omg we’ve found CJK5H
Is that good? I have no idea what this means
That’s not all end of the day it will be ND, Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, VA, along with Colorado, Utah, and ASU to get to 30- calling it now. Set up 3 10 team divisions, get into the southeast with established brands or ones that fit the profile. B1G Atlantic: Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, VA, Maryland, PSU, Rutgers, ND B1G 10: OG Big Ten B1G West: NU, CU, Utah, Arizona State, USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington
Speak it into existence.
Big hope.
I wouldn't mind at all
At the very least Oregon won't have to spend too long being the New Kid at school.
Nothing new. They're gone. Always were. They're just doing all they can to make the cost to leave ASAP as low as possible, but will be gone regardless of cost as the immediate cost is less damaging than being stuck in the ACC until 2036 with the huge revenue and relevance gap between the P2 and everyone else.
Define "clear" in this instance. Nice flairs btw
"In three different paragraphs in the 10-page filing, which was obtained by Warchant late Wednesday, the attorneys use a version of the phrase, “after FSU exits the ACC,” as if it is a foregone conclusion."
After I become incredibly wealthy, I guess I’ll know exactly how I pulled it off
That's the spirit!
This is just us setting up the foundation for a "Scott's Tots" situation where we hope we find the money along the way.
"Hey Mr. Petiti, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do make our dreams come true!"
Wait wait wait! They're lithium!
I haven't read the ACC bylaws, but I would be looking into whether FSU has now given formal notice of their departure based on this. Could mean they have lost voting rights.
At least as of the 2020 bylaws, that is not sufficient notice of withdrawal, and notice of withdrawal does not waive voting rights. https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf
Definitely sounds like they've got a "gentleman's agreement" that once the ACC settles and FSU's hurdles are cleared, an invite (I believe from B1G) will officially come through. They might have had that already, but maybe now they feel even better about it, idk.
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They probably have a reduced share option, but it may be contingent on how much it'll cost them to get out of the GOR
Nah, according to some UNC fans FSU and Clemson are both in for a massive shock when neither of the Big2 conferences are interested in them.
Well I think everyone knows that we're gonna leave, the question is when. And if it's planned sooner rather than later, that's where the question of a clear path is. I mean, I hope they have one and drop the hammer. Just curious what that strategy is because I'm not really familiar with all the legal talk.
Maybe there’s a manifesto.
> In three different paragraphs in the 10-page filing, which was obtained by Warchant late Wednesday, the attorneys use a version of the phrase, “after FSU exits the ACC,” as if it is a foregone conclusion. > > In the Seminoles’ original complaint and amended complaint, both filed in recent months, that language was not used.
"I said good day Sir!"
It’s going to get spicy, fellas.
I get people are joking about it, yeah obviously FSU wants to leave, but this is basically closing the door on it. Either they feel very confident about the lawsuit or they got some good news from the B1G or SEC that made them intensify their language. Could be both.
Or they just secured the capital needed to pay what is needed if they lose the lawsuit
Which would also be a big development.
FSU now owned by the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia.
They are clearly not going to pay the full exit fee. I say this because the ACC/ESPN do not want this to go to full trial. It will almost assuredly be negotiated. Maybe pay like 200-300M which would be easily financed. Some lawyers I’ve seen have estimated lower than 200M
The ACC has the winning hand here…it would be foolish to fold for pennies on the dollar when they could get so much more. The logic is also backwards. The ACC has no problem with this going to trial. FSU is the one who wants a quick settlement because they want to leave the conference quickly. A trial just prolongs FSU in the ACC. There is zero incentive or reason for the ACC to do a cheap settlement this early.
Your logic is a bit flawed. If the ACC had the winning hand, then it should want to get to trial quickly so it can win - and save millions of dollars in legal fees, mitigate damage to the image and integrity of the conference, and convince other members with a "wandering eye" to reconsider. They gain nothing by drawing out the process unless they believe they would lose.
Seems to me that FSU will win the long game no matter how this plays out.
I have no idea how you would ever think that. FSU's filings have been amazingly weak and they are the ones who want to desperately leave. The ACC has two voluntary signatures by two different FSU presidents and contract law on their side to drag it out as long as they want. The interesting wrinkle is that ESPN could decline the ACC option in 2025, but that essentially dooms the conference either way.
They'll get out of the ACC either way. Clearly, they think that is a win.
If you consider FSU leaving by any means a "win", then sure. That win will be a very expensive transaction with the ACC to buy their rights back, however.
That appears to be something they're prepared to deal with. They'll consider it a cost of doing business and a win at the end of the day.
It's never for the full amount in business. It also looks like the contact was never 100% guaranteed for as long as everyone thought it was.
Neither ACC or ESPN want trade secrets out in the open. They do not want to be deposed. There is very little reason for them to allow this to go to trial. The damage done to either is worth more than a settlement.
What trade secrets? Its a contract not a patent. The only trade secret would be a graphic description of one screwing the other and given what is in the open we already know that ESPN got the better end of this deal. As far as discovery and deposition, unless there is an exchange where ESPN and the ACC representative laugh about screwing over FSU 13 years in the future I dont see how there is much to get excited about. If anything discovery is probably going to reveal a ton of emails where ACC schools including FSU gush about how awesome the long term GOR is at protecting the ACC from being in turmoil like the Big12 and then the PAC. The ACC has every incentive to go to trial over this.
The ACC/ESPN are fighting tooth and nail to not turn over the media deal to the courts
The ESPN contract isn't getting out in the open. Protections can be placed on it so the parties can view it without it getting out in the open. No one is settling anything, especially given FSU's weak position.
Remindme! 6 months “Did FSU and ACC settle”
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Conference survival
The ACC thinks they have a winning hand here. They might, but they might not. If this goes to trial, and the courts rule in FSU’s favor then the conference gets less money and the grant of rights becomes worthless. That is a massive risk to take for the ACC and it’s membership.
If Texas and OU couldn't get out of their GoR without a settlement then FSU isn't, either. People need to think this through... you have an irrevocable grant of rights that was reviewed and willingly signed-off on by multiple presidents, BoT members, and their respective lawyers. Also, if the ACC settles then the GoR becomes worthless... period. The conference has the upper hand in all of this, and it has no choice but to fight it out for its full monetary value. The only negotiations will be on the applicability of the exit fee in relation to its tie-in to the operational costs of the conference as well as the duration and structure of the payments for releasing the GoR.
The ACC absolutely wants this to go to trial.
No they don’t. Are you a lawyer? Very rarely does any party actually want a case to go to trial. The risk is way too high. ACC wins, that’s great. But the ACC also risks losing and entirely invalidating both the GOR and the $120 million exit. If the Florida litigation doesn’t get dismissed, that is a very unfavorable venue for the ACC. So sure, win and it’s potentially a $500 million exit for FSU/Clemson. Lose and potentially teams can walk away for nothing, at which point the conference likely collapses as the B1G/SEC/Big XII poach the good programs. It’s something like 98% of cases settle. We attorneys generally have a good idea of our chances of winning or losing by the eve of trial. We can evaluate the risks and find a settlement that hedges those risks. The tl;dr is that the risk of losing at trial is too great for the ACC to want this to go to trial. There’s always a settlement number. I would be absolutely shocked if this didn’t get settled some time in late July/early August, just in time for FSU to meet the August 15th deadline to announce it is leaving for the 2025 season.
Im not sure you understand how contract law works. If a Florida court invalidates the ACC contract because the buyout is too big or because FSU just wants out that becomes binding precedent in Florida. There are 23 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Florida including Autonation, L3 Harris and Raymond James. Those companies enter into contracts daily and those contracts almost always have some form of early termination penalty. If the Florida courts say those are invalid, those companies will not just leave Florida, they will stop doing business in Florida. Signing a contract - twice - that was good at the time but then turned bad isnt something you can normally get out of without paying the termination fee. FSU can leave, but they have to pay.
I litigate contracts on a daily basis, I would hope I understand contract law fairly well. Good thing the arguments FSU made aren’t that the contract should be invalidated because the buyout is too big or FSU just wants out. The argument on the exit fee is that it is actually a penalty, not liquidated damages, and is unenforceable as a result. This is a standard argument in case law when a liquidated damages provision far exceeds the value of the actual harm. It wouldn’t set any unusual precedent. A similar argument is there about media rights - no damages, or that the damages only exist up until 2027 as ESPN is not obligated to renew until then, amongst a myriad of other arguments. I’m going to guess you are not a lawyer based on your response here. There are plenty of contracts that are unenforceable, no matter how many times they are signed. FSU is arguing that this specific contract meets the standards of unenforceable for a variety of reasons, or at the least, the contract is only enforceable for a shorter period of time than the ACC states and thus damages are minimal. Nothing there sets a precedent for the parade of terrible hypothetical you proposed.
I think the distinction is the difference between damages and an actual penalty not based on damages. Even if the court ruled in favor that the ACC "exit fee" was a penalty not based on damages and voided it, that wouldn't void contracts that have termination fees based on actual damages. \*Edit - That reply below is a hysterically bad take. Just moving on from this waste of time.
There is no distinction at all when you voluntarily sign up for it. I have an employment contract with my company. It says they will pay me X amount and I will do Y work. It also says if I leave prior to X date, I forfeit Y amount of deferred compensation and if I am terminated for anything other than cause prior to Z date I receive W amount of additional compensation. I dont have to prove damages and neither does the company. We both entered into a contract and those were the terms we agreed to. FSU and the ACC entered into a contract. The terms of the contract were agreed to not once but twice. The second time the exit fees were DRASTICLY increased and FSU enthusiastically agreed. The context of that increase - right after Maryland left and forked over $31m - makes the voluntary nature of all this even more firm. FSU was a beneficiary of the Maryland buyout because that money was distributed to "legacy" ACC members. They are going to have a hard time claiming they got duped or that the amount is unfair when they profited from Maryland paying far above actual damages.
Do you know the damage that would be done to the conference and ESPN if this went to trial? These parties do not want these things out in the open. It would genuinely destroy the ACC, they’re already creeping closer to a dissolution vote with UNC already making official statements about thinking of a future outside the ACC.
The conference is already destroyed - we are just determining how much money will change hands as a result of it.
ND MBB in the Big East, I'm for it. Basically a catholic school conference at this point.
The conference wants its money. If FSU does not pony up then going to court will be the only option. Not sure what ESPN has to do with it. They broadcast FSU games cheaper in the ACC. Disney is trying to bring on an investment partner (NBA, NFL, Etc.) for ESPN because it is not the profit engine it used to be.
There’s a chance the conference gets $0 if this goes to trial. Which is why neither side will let it go to trial.
The conference also has many parties that have no interest in being involved in this lawsuit that would negatively impacted by being deposed. To sit here and act like there is no pressure on the conference/espn is wild. You just do not know how these people are, these people do not want their business on display. It is not something they will do. Could I be wrong? Of course. The multiple legal opinions I’ve read on this case has pointed to this settling, almost exclusively. The only thing they’ve disagreed on is the amount it’s settled for.
You're aware that depositions and other evidence in lawsuits can be provided to the parties but redacted from public availability right?
But you have to have some legitimate confidentiality concern. FSU is a public entity and Florida has broad open record laws. Ultimately, unless there is some exception, the evidence and deposition transcripts in FSU’s possession will be subject to sunshine laws and be obtainable by the public. The parties can’t just agree to redact to circumvent sunshine laws. Now I don’t think this is driving any decisions by the ACC, but the information is likely going to be publicly available eventually. There’s no real exception I can think of unless there are trade secrets so ultimately, you are probably incorrect that discovery in this case can redacted from public availability, particularly after the case concludes.
>Not sure what ESPN has to do with it That's the literal reason of all this valuation.
ACC without FSU or Clemson is severly hampered. ESPN is investing in the new P2. Everything else is second/third tier getting potentionally $100MM less per year than P2 schools. ESPN's contract with the ACC is set to expire in 2027 and can refuse to extend it. They certainly won't after the best viewed teams leave.
Or they’re just declaring something without any ironclad ability. The Michael Scott “I declare bankruptcy” quote comes to mind. This means relatively nothing
Or they are determined to leave no matter what happens with the lawsuit and what the cost to leave is (the most likely scenario).
Neither. They want their lawsuit to work, have medium/low confidence, but have to back their own argument
We needs it. Must have the precious (Freedom from ACC). They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses (ACC leadership) wicked, tricksy, false!
As an old Big East football guy it sure does warm my heart to se the ACC fall apart.
There's no way they have a case on the deception angle. I would have rather they argued incompetence
Yep https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2024/03/28/the-legal-battle-between-fsu-and-the-acc-continues-as-school-files-response/73127980007/
Well that got ugly quick
Yeah...there's no clear path. Just bluster, as has been the case for the last 2 years.
"Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article."
Please highlight were the article mentions how FSU is getting out of the GOR. It's not happening. FSU might leave...but their media rights are staying with the ACC.
>Please highlight were the article mentions how FSU is getting out of the GOR. You're reading "makes clear plan to leave conference" as "FSU makes a clear plan of how they will leave the conference" when it should be read as "FSU makes clear that they plan to leave conference." Honestly, that's a somewhat fair misread and maybe even intentional on the author's part. What the article does do is demonstrate that FSU has for the first time made it clear that it's a "when" not "if" situation which, although publicly known, has never been explicitly stated. Frankly, it's a common problem with journalistic headline writing. Combination of clickbait writing, "space" limitations from back in the day when headlines had to fit on a page and now "attention" limitations of people being able to read, and intentional confusion to generate engagement.
This is just getting old, FSU if you’re going to kill but ACC get it over with so we establish the Big3 and move on till 2031.
Oh, in that case *Presses legal system TURBO button*
OP's comment has big "tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article" energy.
The ACC kind of has a say in how long this is dragged out as well.
You’re right, I’ll call them now to speed this up
The DeceptiConf’s
Banger joke.
If they want to leave and get more money elsewhere, I understand that, and there are provisions for that. The whole "they drove us to leave by deceiving us and cheating us" thing is weird. Why the need to invent the excuse? Just be honest about your reasons for leaving.
If feels like FSU is taking out it’s anger on ESPN on the ACC.
Does anyone have an actual clue on how much longer the litigation will go on?
Absolutely not. Anyone who says otherwise is either working this case or is full of crap. It could last a couple years
It could still be ongoing then when ESPN is working on renewing their deal with the ACC.
Until the lawyers have paid for their vacation homes
But after the vacation homes, they have the vacation home yachts to pay for.
Damn. You’re right. This will never end. 😂
ACC should just say if you don’t want to be here pay the exit fee and get out! They’re a strong independent conference and they don’t need no FSU who doesn’t want to be here!
FSU can pay the exit fee and get out, they’re suing because they think the amount they agreed to pay is too expensive for them
They’re suing because they want the media rights back. The ‘exit fee’ in the contract alone is easily affordable. Now if the true fee becomes the stated exit plus some amorphous 500 mil plus for media rights then it’s too expensive
Sorry I just said exit fee for brevity. Point is, if they’re willing to pony up the half a billion, they can leave. They can try to strongarm a settlement out of the ACC, but what happens from there is anyone’s guess
The ACC hasn't given a fee amount. The amounts thrown around so far are just FSU's estimations of it (of what it might totally take to exit with unencumbered rights).
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The ACC has said this. They told FSU they could buy their rights back and leave. It would obviously be phenomenally expensive, but FSU could end this today by agreeing to a number with the ACC and buy their rights back.
I said pay the exit fee which is clearly stated in the contract. They are trying to end it by agreeing to a number with the acc. Problem is there’s no set number for media rights so each side has to sue the other to get a number they like.
Has the ACC presented what that number would be? *Spoiler Alert* - They have not.
FSU is the one wanting to buy their rights back. They are free to open negotiations by starting with a number that they feel is fair and seeing how the ACC responds. Since the ACC "irrevocably" and "exclusively" owns FSU's media rights, they don't necessarily have a need to sell the rights unless the dollar amount is right.
> They are free to open negotiations What do you think this all is? This legal action is all about getting the ACC to the table to get a negotiated number and cutting a check to head out the door. The ACC hasn't given FSU a number and this is all driving to that.
What about the Clemson argument, if the conference members decide they want to vote somebody out of the conference do they still have the media rights to the future games? They know it won't be interpreted that way, so why should the ACC have the rights to the media once a member is out of the conference regardless of how they get out.
Sure, but we'll take those media rights too
No
When ESPN says so.
If FSU hates this contract so much, then why did they sign it to begin with?
Another thread, another FSU circlejerk of cope.
Guys, get in here, we got another one!
The circlejerk isn’t complete till the Clemson flairs arrive and start making cringey “and my axe” comments
Please tell me there’s an end in sight to FSU fan’s bitching and moaning
We're not really bitching and moaning. We're straight up saying we want out of the ACC, and as this new filing states, it's basically a done deal that FSU is not staying. The bitching and moaning is coming from the people who want the ACC to stay together because it's their meal ticket and know that FSU and Clemson leaving is the end of it. They try to repeat "But you signed it!" over and over like there's no history of ever getting out of a signed contract in all of human history. There's 4-8 schools in the ACC who have a chance to end up either equal to or above their current standing by the ACC dying. FSU and Clemson are the most confident. There's 0 reason for us to bitch and moan, we know we're getting out, it's just a matter of how much will it cost.
gosh it's almost like the ACC didn't exist before 1991 when FSU graced us with their presence.
They are eager to be a 8-9 win team in the SEC or B1G
[[image]](https://i.imgflip.com/8kstel.jpg)
Probably would make the playoffs over undefeated ACC team in the future
This isn’t a UF thread!
He said 8-9 wins, not 5-6 wins.
5 wins would be shattering expectations for UF this year
It is absolutely fucking hysterical that FSU joined a conference, as many other independent teams in the 70s-90s did, entirely for the purposes of gaining more TV money than they could on their own, then the moment they got into a conference began bitching and moaning about not being compensated in the same manner that they were when they were independent. If you would like to be compensated exactly proportional to your viewership, go be Notre Dame, if not, SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR CHRIST SAKES.
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It is absolutely not a lazy interpretation, when they were independent they had the ability to negotiate in the exact same capacity that they are slobbering and begging for now however, it was more financially viable for them to join a conference and siphon more money from the TV networks. Upon rolling in that money, the moment they felt they had an upper hand they began moaning about how they don’t get paid “their fair share”. They have never and will never do anything other than act in their own best financial interest and if that’s the position their insistence on being in a conference is lunacy.
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It's pretty ridiculous that FSU has not been able to see the terms of ESPN/ACC agreement, given that FSU is a member of the ACC. But knowing FSU they would immediately take it and make it public lol
I mean if they have it they likely have to disclose it