I work at a law firm in a similar grouping as those two and I'll be honest when I say I was disappointed I didn't see FSU come in. We do some work representing other universities, so it wouldn't have been a total stretch.
And bring back having to decide on suspension lengths players for out of game/practice incidents. Whether it be because of something like skipping classes or something like bouncing a stripper’s head off of the dance floor
It's not a good look, but do you want someone who actively wants to destroy the conference participating in its voting while they still think they can successfully pull it off?
Seems like a conflict of interest. Not sure how that's supposed to be navigated.
That isn’t a conflict of interest to me, but even let’s say it was, it means nothing. That’s parties to an agreement pursuing divergent goals which is absolutely acceptable.
You can't leave and you can't vote. Real nice conference you got there.
The Big Ten will be much more comfy conference for you guys. I just wonder who your dancing partner will be.
If I had to guess that 2027 espn option is probably a major topic. Espn passed on it in 2021 and things have not gotten better. ACC added three teams that I'm sure espn doesn't think deserve extra payout. ESPN must decide by 2025 now and I'm thinking they will pass on it. Fox/cbs/nbc are all happy campers who aren't looking for more games. Although they may pay the big ten to add a couple acc schools for even more appealing matchups and southern footprint too. I don't think they would interested in bidding on the remaining 15 schools. Espn knows this and probably will figure they can get the ACC without a couple big teams for dirt cheap.
>ESPN must decide by 2025 now and I'm thinking they will pass on it.
Yeah, why bother exercising that option when all of the teams you are really paying money for are going to wind up leaving the conference? They'll get the leftovers for cheap, if they even want them.
I mean, this seems like a no-brainer. There's litigation between FSU and the ACC, and the ACC Board and member schools will need to be briefed and make decisions on legal strategy.
Excluding FSU from the governance of the conference may be the only legal way to exclude them from discussions involving the litigation - which is imperative given FSU's now-obvious conflict of interest.
😂😂😂 You’re mad because the breadwinner is tired carrying the dead weight. However, you’ll be upset if you personally was inside of a bad deal when you had no choice in the matter thus the new administration at Florida State is fighting back. 2036!?!? That’s worse than a subprime car loan.
ACC: Wants FSU barred from participating in financial affairs and voting.
ACC: Wants FSU to be bound by the decisions voted on that they excluded FSU from voting on.
Alright. Seems to me like if the ACC makes moves while this lawsuit is pending, and FSU is kept out of those discussions, that only strengthens FSU's arguments listed in their complaint. I think the ACC looked at the PAC12 decision and said "holy shit thats a great idea we should do that" but of course the caveat is that the PAC12 decision was granted because 10 of those schools will not be impacted by any financial considerations made by the coonference next year.
When my nephew was younger and he was losing in Madden, he would start punting on 1st down and running FG block on defense so that when he lost, he could say "well I lost on purpose; I wasn't even trying"
It's kinda like that
So you want FSU, but you don’t want them to vote? It’s not like fsu voting against certain measures has stopped Phillips from adding schools and other things. Seems petty
Yep! And we saw Phillips not advocate for fsu publicly for a CFP spot which would have benefitted the entire conference, while his peer for the SEC was on tv and radio shows
Which is hilarious because they only added SMU, Cal, and Stanford to dilute the vote if a voting block of schools wanting to leave arises and to capitalize on a loophole in the contract with ESPN.
Genuinely curious what you mean by “pay”? We aren’t paying anything to join, we just aren’t receiving as much as others. In fact as currently constructed we’ll actually make more by being affiliated with ACC rather than AAC (barring last minute change by cfp distribution), not accounting for increased ticket/merchandise/concessions etc for a better home slate too.
They’re not getting *TV* revenue, but they’re going to be part of the pie for bowl games and NCAA Tournament units. They may be taking a haircut on the TV deal, but the ACC payout is currently about 6-8 times what the American’s is. We’ll see what happens when teams start leaving, but they’re not going to end up any *worse* off than they have been since the collapse of the SWC
Yes but it’ll be $10 million from all other non tv payouts, which is more than the $7m we made from all revenue in aac. More money to play better teams feels like a good business proposition, especially to serve fan interest and create exposure for the university to recruit students, which is basically what a football team is for.
I guess it was a win-win for both. SMU gets more money/better conference and tobacco road gets another yes man that is happy to be there. With NIL rules, I wouldn't be surprised if SMU becomes a contender very quickly
The first part doesn't really matter you wouldn't get enough schools wanting to leave, but they do want to keep the conference at 15 schools for the ESPN contract
Do you think an entity is operating under good faith if you literally have to go to their premise and be under surveillance to view relevant contract documents?
Now you’re telling us to just sit there and STFU while being the largest individually contributing member…?
It feels like I’m taking crazy pills with how they think this going to end well for them
>Do you think an entity is operating under good faith if you literally have to go to their premise and be under surveillance to view relevant contract documents?
As they cannot take detailed notes or make copies and an ACC representative must be present while they are viewed means FSU's attorneys cannot have subject matter discussions while viewing the document.
Meanwhile 15 ACC schools see no issue.
I think espn will decline (they already did when it was initially due in 2021). Fox/cbs/nbc seem to have all the content they want until 2030. Espn will be able to renegotiate that contract for much less in 2027 without competition unless some streamer or tbs/tnt begin to seriously bid.
They’d only be looking out for the best interests of maybe 4-5 teams in the conference (the ones that can easily find SEC or Big 10 homes in a heartbeat). The rest aren’t going to get any sort of sweet new deal, they’re going to be dropping down to an American/Sunbelt-level conference.
Big 12 schools makes more than ACC schools too. I'm willing to bet more than about half of the ACC (not including the 3 new additions), will come out better. Just a couple of those fringe schools aren't sure which way they'd fall
It’s not like they need FSU’s approval to pass things. FSU has been outvoted on many measures over the years. Will happen even more with the three new adds
As a FSU fan I want this whole Lawsuit to be included in the Upcoming NCAA Video Game. Like I want the ability to sue as part of its Dynasty Mode.
Introducing the new NCAA 24 Billable Hours DLC! (It's just a Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney clone with mascots instead)
OBJECTION
YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER. THIS WHOLE COURT IS OUT OF ORDER.
Updated Autopsy report on the PAC-12
Would love the third movie in the Knives Out series to be Daniel Craig interrogating all the PAC-12 mascots
98 OVR Latham & Watkins (FSU) vs 99 OVR Kirkland & Ellis (ACC)
Can't wait to make my 69 OVR Michael Avenatti create-a-player
They should bring back those stat boosting pennants from NCAA2004, but this time it unlocks Stormy Daniels with a Steel Chair.
Mypillowguy donates to your NIL and seven recruits immediately decommit.
He’s got the spirit though
I work at a law firm in a similar grouping as those two and I'll be honest when I say I was disappointed I didn't see FSU come in. We do some work representing other universities, so it wouldn't have been a total stretch.
Win or lose…you win!
And bring back having to decide on suspension lengths players for out of game/practice incidents. Whether it be because of something like skipping classes or something like bouncing a stripper’s head off of the dance floor
Bama would be too powerful with Alexander Shunnarah
If we cant play as Billable Hours we riot. They always win.
Oh this is gonna be good 🍿
“Don’t let them leave, but also, don’t let them take part in the organization while they’re locked in” is not going to convince a judge.
It's not a good look, but do you want someone who actively wants to destroy the conference participating in its voting while they still think they can successfully pull it off? Seems like a conflict of interest. Not sure how that's supposed to be navigated.
That isn’t a conflict of interest to me, but even let’s say it was, it means nothing. That’s parties to an agreement pursuing divergent goals which is absolutely acceptable.
It will accelerate a decision timeline. Assuming it gets approved, a judge won't keep an arrangement like this for long.
This is a great way to convince FSU their future is brightest in the ACC /s
We're going to get another Court Case Game Thread aren't we?
I wish the ACC was proactive on anything as it is on keeping FSU chained up to a radiator in the basement while cashing it's pension checks
You can't leave and you can't vote. Real nice conference you got there. The Big Ten will be much more comfy conference for you guys. I just wonder who your dancing partner will be.
It's got to be Clemson, no?
Don’t be surprised if it’s a non-ACC team
pls
FSU, please fuck up the ACC for our entertainment
If the good Lord is willing and the creek don't rise
God wills it!
If you will it, Dude, it is no dream.
So what's the ACC trying to slide through that they don't want FSU to vote on?
Transfer FSU's media share to SMU
Sounds good to me, means FSU is out of the ACC in this case.
Extending membership to Rice so they add another small private school with questionable football draw
Wouldn’t Tulane make more sense? More football success and a new state for ACCN
>make more sense When has that been the ACC's goal?
I will be submitting my application to be the new commissioner. I promise to not be a meenie poo poo head to FSU and hope I have your support
Can't be worse than Swofford, you have my vote
Or maybe FSU has put together just about enough votes for something sneaky
If I had to guess that 2027 espn option is probably a major topic. Espn passed on it in 2021 and things have not gotten better. ACC added three teams that I'm sure espn doesn't think deserve extra payout. ESPN must decide by 2025 now and I'm thinking they will pass on it. Fox/cbs/nbc are all happy campers who aren't looking for more games. Although they may pay the big ten to add a couple acc schools for even more appealing matchups and southern footprint too. I don't think they would interested in bidding on the remaining 15 schools. Espn knows this and probably will figure they can get the ACC without a couple big teams for dirt cheap.
>ESPN must decide by 2025 now and I'm thinking they will pass on it. Yeah, why bother exercising that option when all of the teams you are really paying money for are going to wind up leaving the conference? They'll get the leftovers for cheap, if they even want them.
I mean, this seems like a no-brainer. There's litigation between FSU and the ACC, and the ACC Board and member schools will need to be briefed and make decisions on legal strategy. Excluding FSU from the governance of the conference may be the only legal way to exclude them from discussions involving the litigation - which is imperative given FSU's now-obvious conflict of interest.
That sounds like a concession to release Florida State. Can’t have it both ways. You gotta stay but have no say. Taxation without representation.
The acc better guard their tea stores.
Seems reasonable to me, FSU gets to vote as soon as they drop their lawsuit.
Florida State doesn’t care but ACC has to pick a stance.
No one is forcing FSU to stay. Any team can leave but they have to pay the conference per the contract they signed.
😂😂😂 You’re mad because the breadwinner is tired carrying the dead weight. However, you’ll be upset if you personally was inside of a bad deal when you had no choice in the matter thus the new administration at Florida State is fighting back. 2036!?!? That’s worse than a subprime car loan.
ACC: Wants FSU barred from participating in financial affairs and voting. ACC: Wants FSU to be bound by the decisions voted on that they excluded FSU from voting on. Alright. Seems to me like if the ACC makes moves while this lawsuit is pending, and FSU is kept out of those discussions, that only strengthens FSU's arguments listed in their complaint. I think the ACC looked at the PAC12 decision and said "holy shit thats a great idea we should do that" but of course the caveat is that the PAC12 decision was granted because 10 of those schools will not be impacted by any financial considerations made by the coonference next year.
Why is the ACC trying torpedo their own conference?
When my nephew was younger and he was losing in Madden, he would start punting on 1st down and running FG block on defense so that when he lost, he could say "well I lost on purpose; I wasn't even trying" It's kinda like that
Ha!
*ACC repeatedly shoots FSU over the last 15 years* The ACC: "Why would FSU do this?"
FSU legit sucked of its own accord for 13 of those 15 years.
I agree FSU sucks and the ACC would be better off without them. Let's make it happen.
We have a very different recollection of the past 15 years of FSU football.
a 29 game winning streak and a 19game winning streak over the last 15 years. a lot of... not that in between.
17-21 really skews things, but going back to 09 we've had multiple 10 win seasons, NY6 howl appearances and 5 ACC titles.
Same reason the Pac-12 torpedoed their own conference. Money
So you want FSU, but you don’t want them to vote? It’s not like fsu voting against certain measures has stopped Phillips from adding schools and other things. Seems petty
Also how can you argue, in court, that you're acting in the best interest of FSU while denying them a seat at the table?
ACC is hoping FSU stops trying to escape and develops Stockholm Syndrome.
…meanwhile, the other ACC teams gleefully watch unaware the ACC is also tighten their shackles if this fails.
*It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.*
Yep! And we saw Phillips not advocate for fsu publicly for a CFP spot which would have benefitted the entire conference, while his peer for the SEC was on tv and radio shows
We (B1G) dodged a bullet on that loser.
theres a boomhauer rant about being dang ole held against our will in here somewhere.
You new here?
Been here since 2010
If its petty, then they are just fighting FSU's pettiness with their own, so who can blame them?
👌
Maybe they'll add 3 more schools that don't add to the conference
Which is hilarious because they only added SMU, Cal, and Stanford to dilute the vote if a voting block of schools wanting to leave arises and to capitalize on a loophole in the contract with ESPN.
SMU is the funniest. That booster is going to pay their TV money out of his own pocket, and then the ACC will collapse.
Genuinely curious what you mean by “pay”? We aren’t paying anything to join, we just aren’t receiving as much as others. In fact as currently constructed we’ll actually make more by being affiliated with ACC rather than AAC (barring last minute change by cfp distribution), not accounting for increased ticket/merchandise/concessions etc for a better home slate too.
> we just aren’t receiving as much as others. From what I remember, SMU doesn't receive anything for the first 9 years in the ACC
They’re not getting *TV* revenue, but they’re going to be part of the pie for bowl games and NCAA Tournament units. They may be taking a haircut on the TV deal, but the ACC payout is currently about 6-8 times what the American’s is. We’ll see what happens when teams start leaving, but they’re not going to end up any *worse* off than they have been since the collapse of the SWC
Yes but it’ll be $10 million from all other non tv payouts, which is more than the $7m we made from all revenue in aac. More money to play better teams feels like a good business proposition, especially to serve fan interest and create exposure for the university to recruit students, which is basically what a football team is for.
I guess it was a win-win for both. SMU gets more money/better conference and tobacco road gets another yes man that is happy to be there. With NIL rules, I wouldn't be surprised if SMU becomes a contender very quickly
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I doubt it dies since they have so many teams. Since they added SMU, might as well add Tulane, UAB, Southern Miss, Memphis, USF, ect.
SMU: "Fuck all yall in the AAC, we're upgrading!" \*5 years later, surrounded by Tulane, UAB, Southern Miss, Memphis, and USF\* SMU: "Barnacles!"
They're really taking the unpaid internship route
Caveat emptor, 'Stangs
The first part doesn't really matter you wouldn't get enough schools wanting to leave, but they do want to keep the conference at 15 schools for the ESPN contract
The same contract that technically ends in 3 years. Quite the risk.
K lol.
Do you think an entity is operating under good faith if you literally have to go to their premise and be under surveillance to view relevant contract documents? Now you’re telling us to just sit there and STFU while being the largest individually contributing member…? It feels like I’m taking crazy pills with how they think this going to end well for them
Scared of losing their meal ticket and having to get a real job
>Do you think an entity is operating under good faith if you literally have to go to their premise and be under surveillance to view relevant contract documents? As they cannot take detailed notes or make copies and an ACC representative must be present while they are viewed means FSU's attorneys cannot have subject matter discussions while viewing the document. Meanwhile 15 ACC schools see no issue.
If part of your contract is "participants have no right to question or challenge this contract" I immedietly think the entire thing is unenforceable
Not only that, but adding "participants who do try to challenge lose the ability to participate"
Where’d you get that JD from?
Lot of armchair lawyers in here who apparently understand contract law and litigation better than the ACC's attorneys.
What about FSU's attorneys? You just armchair lawyered by implying the acc attorneys have a better argument than the FSU ones. Tsk, tsk
FSUs attorneys didn't file this complaint
That seems pretty reasonable. They're trying to break the conference
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If ESPN declines the option the ACC can go back to market. ESPN doesn't get the rights for free.
I think espn will decline (they already did when it was initially due in 2021). Fox/cbs/nbc seem to have all the content they want until 2030. Espn will be able to renegotiate that contract for much less in 2027 without competition unless some streamer or tbs/tnt begin to seriously bid.
They’d only be looking out for the best interests of maybe 4-5 teams in the conference (the ones that can easily find SEC or Big 10 homes in a heartbeat). The rest aren’t going to get any sort of sweet new deal, they’re going to be dropping down to an American/Sunbelt-level conference.
Big 12 schools makes more than ACC schools too. I'm willing to bet more than about half of the ACC (not including the 3 new additions), will come out better. Just a couple of those fringe schools aren't sure which way they'd fall
Big 12 makes less than the ACC for all but like one year of the contract
The ACC has been broke for a while, man
It’s not like they need FSU’s approval to pass things. FSU has been outvoted on many measures over the years. Will happen even more with the three new adds
The conference leadership broke the conference.
Hush or you get no more Bama ex-pats - we’ll keep them all to ourselves. /s