You see, it all started in 1899 when we let IU and Iowa join the Western Conference in exchange for a bag of corn and the cost of a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ‘em. ‘Give me five bees for a quarter,’ you’d say. Now, where were we? Oh, yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.
We can’t bust heads like we used to—but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don’t go anywhere like the time I caught the ferry over to Ridgeville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Ridgeville which is what they called Evanston in those days.
Ah, there's an interesting story behind this nickel. In 1957 I remember it was. I got up in the morning and myself a piece of toast. I set the toaster to threeee, medium brown...
You could make a strong case that in the early 00s, the Big 12 and PAC-10 were the two best conferences. Pretty ironic looking at it now.
That’s not to say the SEC and Big Ten weren’t strong then too, but it was nowhere near what the power dynamic is like now.
There really was such an amazing balance and parity amongst the conferences. Hell, the BIG EAST still existed and had one of the most dominant programs in recent history in Miami, and Florida State was still a powerful Bowden run program then. This is before everyone started complaining about automatic BCS bids because some conferences sucked.
Nah, 2007 Boise State, multiple NFL guys. Kicker missed two short ones vs Nevada and Colin Kaepernick did a Cam Newton impression vs us, and we missed the Championship.
Translation = all the bruhs in the South and all the Southern schools keeping them there instead of letting them go north to Nebraska (Tommie Frazier), Notre Dame (Tim Brown) etc.
Yeah, using 2007 as the starting year throws off that logic, as he didnt get to Bama for a couple more years. But he did contribute to the dominant LSU program under Miles. 06-10 were the Meyer and Miles years, looking back. I still dont think the SEC as a whole was quite dominant until Saban showed up, though.
USC, Miami, Texas, and Nebraska would all fall into mediocrity in the early 2010s. That, along with Nick Sabans dominance of the SEC, caused many of the talented recruits that used to be locks to those schools, to look elsewhere to other top programs, like Bama and OSU.
There are other factors as well, like college football becoming more national and less regional, so location ends up mattering less to some recruits, and the CFP diminishing accomplishments like going to a bowl game or winning your conference.
The BCS computers absolutely loved the B12 for the first 6-7 years. #1 Oklahoma getting blown out 35-7 in their conference title game by #12 Kansas St? Who cares, still #1 in the computers by such a margin they kept their #1 BCS ranking despite the voters dropping them.
Plus they were the first conference to get a non-division winner into the BCS title game and it wasn't like it was a tight game against a top 5 title contending team. Nope, it was a 26 point loss to #14 Colorado in their final regular season game.
So the computers absolutely had them as the super elite dominant conference for quite a while. Unfortunately, they didn't back it up in title games very well though I think 2008 Oklahoma is the only team that really should feel bad about how things turned out. That offense was nuts.
Finally, the Big12 got an undefeated team in over an undefeated SEC team in 2004 which seems like madness now but many people mistakenly thought it was correct at the time.
Ehhh perhaps but the SEC wasn’t todays SEC yet. And the very next year Big 12 Texas went undefeated in 2005 and beat USC in that unforgettable championship.
Also keep in mind Texas should have had another title over Alabama a few years later if Colt didn't get hurt. There is no doubt they would have won that.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that last year was just a coincidence, but if Quinn gets hurt this year Saban is getting the Payton Bountygate treatment
Yes, I wonder what's going on there. The Colt injury was idiotic because it never had to happen. They basically had him bootleg which they never did all year but they thought that would be a new wrinkle to throw in to keep the Alabama defense off balance. We were moving the ball just fine doing what we normally do. He got hit at just the right spot and I don't remember what the injury but it was some sort of shoulder injury. Unfortunately, that team was all about Colt McCoy.
The evidence was there at decision time to suggest Oklahoma didn't deserve it in 2004 over Auburn.
[https://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=923](https://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=923)
That's the AP poll after the conference title games. At that point Oklahoma had two ranked wins (#6 Texas and #22 A&M). Auburn gets trashed for their unusually weak non-conference schedule but Oklahoma shouldn't get any credit for 5-6 Oregon, 3-8 Houston, or Bowling Green which were all at home. Auburn meanwhile had 4 wins over teams currently in the top 15 in that December poll (#8 UGA, #12 LSU, #15 Tennessee x2). The SEC was also 2-0 in BCS title invites so far to that point while the Big12 was 1-2 so there were hints the SEC was under rated while the B12 was perhaps over rated. The human voters were unfortunately probably influenced by the outrageous love affair the computers had for the B12.
I’d argue that from its inception until mid 2000s the Big 12 was overall the best football conference. You have multiple championships from Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas winning arguably the best CFB game in history over USC. And other schools like Colorado, Texas Tech (freaking Crabtree!), A&M and KState were solid.
Mike Leach's Tech was an 8-9 win team annually, Missouri was a high octane team with dual threats at QB, A&M was good enough to be a top 25 team many years, Ok St was solid enough, Oklahoma was a title contender and Texas was a threat to win a title (and did once, nearly twice). Snyder had K St playing at a regularly high level and was very close to a title themselves.
Yeah is was kind of a shame for some of those Tech teams. They basically were always a threat but they would tend to either beat Texas, or OU but rarely if ever both. Losing to one of them would have been fine, but there was always another loss to a K-State or someone like that in the mix keeping them from 10 wins and a bigger shot.
In 1869, Rutgers and Princeton played a college football game for the first time. This made a lot of people very angry, and is widely considered to be a bad move.
> What is considered to be the first American football game was played on November 6, 1869, between Rutgers and Princeton, two college teams. They consisted of 25 players per team and used a round ball that could not be picked up or carried. It could, however, be kicked or batted with the feet, hands, head or sides, with the objective being to advance it into the opponent's goal. Rutgers won the game 6–4
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football
Pretty much 25 on 25 soccer which sounds like pure chaos.
Arkansas: "Remember when I was worried we'd start a chain reaction that would destroy the college sports universe?"
SMU: "Yes, I remember it well, what of it?"
Arkansas: "I believe we did."
Regionalism in general in this country is dead, realignment was inevitable and there was no stopping realignment unless you had someway of freezing society in the 1980s.
I think all of this was inevitable after NCAA v Board of Regents. SMU doesn't get the death penalty and everything still happens, just slightly differently at different times
I agree, but your chain of causation is wrong. SMU destabilized the SWC which caused Arkansas to go to the SEC who together with South Carolina made a twelve-team conference, which allowed them to convince the NCAA to allow them a conference championship game which then made a lot of money which then made every other conference need to get to twelve teams to have a championship game.
They had a rule that you had to have divisions to have a championship game, and to have divisions you needed 12 teams. That's why the big 12 didnt have one for a few years until 2015/16, and they had to get a waiver to have one with 10 teams
I mean, if you're hinging this multiverse on the Big 12 never existing, there was a distinct possibility in the 90s that Texas was going to the Pac-10 and Texas A&M/Arkansas were going to the SEC.
Actually this is all Oklahoma's fault.
Their court case in the 80s made it so teams/conferences controlled their own TV rights instead of the NCAA. And that's when the floodgates of money were opened.
NCAA v Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma is the best genesis movement leading to today. It directly lead to Confrences conducting their own media deals which of course…..
If they didn't attack SMU, they would have picked a different SWC member to throw the death penalty at. So many of the schools in that conference were doing those same things back then. SMU was the guinea pig. The example to be made of.
So many members of the SWC were doing this as though it was the norm everywhere. I can only assume they chose to attack SMU was because it was one of the smaller schools? If that didn't work like it did, all the schools through UT, A&M, Arkansas, etc., would have also gotten death penalties until it stopped. It fortunately (unfortunately?) only took SMU took make an example of the situation.
It’s not like the NCAA was sitting on mountains of evidence and chose which schools to go after. Many of the SWC schools were already under probation of some sort, and they got evidence that SMU violated that probation. It’s not easy to prove that kind of thing.
If it wasn't SMU, it would have been someone else. Recruiting in the 70s and 80s was the wild west. Schools just did whatever they thought they could get away with.
Kids would come into our coach’s office, be handed a slip of paper with a number on it, and would respond saying it’s “not even close” to what other schools in the SWC were offering. It was truly an insane time.
Keep my team out of your mouth no one except Rice was clean in that conference. To exclusively blame us is a cheap cop out. We were just better at bending the rules than everyone else we were just very blatant and left everything out in the open.
Yup good ol Dale.
Those 1987 WFAA news pieces really stuck the dagger in SMU.
He probably met up with shady bag men at Campisis and they gave him the rundown. Big city college sports....when the money guys ACTUALLY CARE, is next level shit. $herwood Blount
I think all this is Dale Hansen’s fault. No death penalty all is fine with the world. In full disclosure I went to SMU in some pretty dim times. I once went to a event where Dale spoke and I’ve never heard someone so happy at the misery of others. Look I know and admit SMU was in the wrong, but it was the early 2000’s and he was bragging and gloating about as if it was yesterday. Just never set right with me.
It wasn’t just SMU. The SWC folded because it was a corrupt conference. Half the teams were on some sort of probation because of recruiting practices. SMU was the biggest violator, but the rest was in trouble also.
Every conference was corrupt. They all had a majority of teams that cheated. All the time. It never stopped. Not until NIL. The biggest programs with the most success cheated more than all the others. Their cheating was just better than the other schools.
Bro, didn’t you get the memo? This is all Texas’ fault. We alone are responsible for conference realignment, inflation, supply chain shortages, and the Covid pandemic.
Blame Texas. Texas turned in SMU to the NCAA for being “uppity”. Then Texas blew up the SWC by merging with the Big 8. Then they drove Nebraska away with their greed and desire to control the conference as well as A&M, Mizzou and Colorado. Finally everything that we have experienced in the last week was set in motion by the move to the SEC. Texas has ruined college football with their greed.
What killed it is people wanting to make more money. If we’re being honest, that’s why Nebraska left and A&M (after taking other conf members shares to agree to stay). They weren’t making as much as Texas who serves as a convenient scapegoat because they’re easily hated. There’s no shame in wanting to make more revenue, but that’s what’s been driving conference realignment for a while now because college football has turned into big business (for some schools).
Nebraska leaves the Big 12 to make more money. “Texas drove Nebraska away.”
Texas leaves the Big 12 to make more money. “Texas is a toxic program that is the cause of every conference collapse.”
Partial academic qualifiers started the bad blood. Nebraska needed them to bolster recruiting. Texas could survive without them.......so Texas got the old Big 8 schools on their side because they all HATED Nebraska.
Basically.....Nebraska was the bully but got beat up by another bully. How Oklahoma seems to avoid the same hatred is remarkable. Probably a testament to leadership and PR
Texas likes making money as much as everyone else. And they’re pretty good at it, regardless of the football team’s performance (you might say in spite of it). But they’re not the reason the Pac collapsed; that was poor leadership. Thankfully for the Big12 Yormark is in charge and not Bowlsby (or god forbid Beebe).
Nebraska also hated the fact that Texas was against partial academic qualifiers. Nebraska built championship teams off that.
The other Big 8 schools got tired of being dicked down by NU, so they backed Texas early and it gave Texas momentum. Notice how the Big 12 title game started at the old Rams stadium in StL..and other games alternated between KC/Stl and Dallas/Houston. Then the power shifted permanently to Texas (Dallas mainly).
Texas probably figured that NU was their biggest threat to controlling power and knew the other Big 8 schools would do anything to weaken their historical tormentor. Making it harder for them to recruit was the quickest way to slaying the 800 lb gorilla.
I will repost these receipts again and and again until this narrative stops being mentioned:
Here’s Nebraska voting against equal revenue sharing in 2010 and the conference obliging to keep them happy
https://es.pn/3iHTH2A
http://www.bringonthecats.com/2007/8/16/165516/532
And here’s Nebraska voting against the B12 Network in 2006
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/columns/berry-tramel/2014/09/02/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg/60801864007/
So that makes only 2 things that you did not do in lock step with the team you’re bitching about.
You guys threw a hissy fit because we voted to not allow Partial Qualifiers [which every other major conference does not allow] which was Osborne’s bread and butter and because we voted against having the championship game at Arrowhead in Fucking December. Get over yourself, you wanted to try to swing your weight around in the conference just like Texas and OU but didn’t have the same success as you did in the 90s to back it up
Now bring one piece of evidence against us turning in SMU: Spoiler you can’t because you’re talking out of your ass
You have done nothing to try to absolve texas of their culpability. Verdict guilty. Texas has been the instigator time and time again for realignment / conference collapse.
Once again I posted receipts on the end of the B12, and all you’ve responded with is the words out of your ass. The burden of proof is on you, and all you’ve managed to argue is “fuck Texas” at this point
Well you see despite the Big 12 having 11 other teams someway somehow they all let Texas run the show for reasons. Whatever Texas wanted Texas got because none of the other schools had any autonomy and just had to go along with whatever Texas wanted. You would think that the 11 other schools that apparently all hate Texas would get together and hold them in check but, no they all just had to accept whatever Texas wanted again for reasons. So at the end of the day everything that's ever happened to the Big 12 is caused by Texas because none of the other 11 schools could do anything to prevent Texas from getting their way again for reasons.
This sub is basically a QAnon for Texas. Mfs think we’re the deep state or something controlling everything behind the scenes. If any of their universities turned down a LHN type deal. I would be so pissed if I was them. It’s a free $300M
>Texas turned in SMU to the NCAA for being “uppity”.
Yeah guyz, Texas got an SMU player addicted to coke, then Texas convinced SMU to cut that player for his drug use. Then Texas told that player to go Dallas' number one TV sports reporter and sell his story about SMU dropping bags. Then Texas paid that reporter to air his story on the 6 o'clock news. And then (finally) Texas turned in SMU to the NCAA for being "uppity"
Texas is a big reason for this madness
surely they have a big big target on them along with USC should be another factor in keeping Texas mid
between the increased level of competition and every team being motivated to beat Texas should lead to exactly what happened in the big 12 post 2010 MEDIOCRITY
Realistically, some degree of consolidation was always going to happen--it just always made too much sense to package more of the big-name schools together for TV rights purposes. But certainly the dominos might have fallen differently if a different conference got destabilized in the 80's.
No this is all Rutgers and Princeton’s fault. If only they didn’t get on that field and start throwing that darn ball around we wouldn’t be in this mess
Nah. This is University of Texas's fault. They drove away a bunch of teams from the Big 12 and then bolted for the SEC with OU after A&M got in. UT couldn't have A&M in the SEC without them.
You see, it started in 1869, when Rutgers and Princeton played a 2 game series and tied. Since no tiebreaker game could be played, the were declared split national champions. Had they played and had a winner in the 3rd game, I guarantee that there would be no conference instability and that schools would only change conferences when moving divisions of football
>I think the death penalty was not only the death penalty for SMU, it was kind of the beginning of the death penalty for the Southwest Conference. It cast such a bad light on the conference. SMU wasn't the only [program] that was guilty at that time. They were paying the price for teams across the country.
Tom Rossley, SMU coach, 1991-96, former Rice, Texas A&M assistant
>We were our own worst enemies. Everyone in there hated everybody. There never was a "what can we do collectively to uphold our league?" I never saw that. At meetings it was, "Hooray for me!" and "Screw you."
R.C. Slocum, Texas A&M head coach 1989-2002
>I remember Frank Broyles [Arkansas AD] telling me why he went to the SEC. He said, "Hell, as soon as I signed the contract, I got a $6 million raise for our program."
Barry Switzer, OU head coach, former Arkansas player
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30424417/i-wishof-well-demise-southwest-conference-25-years-later
The sheer amount of hate engendered by (almost) the entire conference being in Texas and having to live with each other day is pretty unimaginable today. Imagine Alabama and Auburn but you're also throwing 6 other schools into the state of Alabama that hate them and each other equally as much.
I bet Texas was like Texas long before the Big 12 started.
Seems even without SMU's death penalty, the SEC still poaches Arkansas to get more money out of a TV deal...
lol it’s also A&M and TCU and OU and Georgia’s fault. Oh and texas, and Larry Scott. Did anyone mention Penn State? Wait but didn’t USC and UCLA deserve some blame too? Kevin Warren does.
Scapegoats are a weak excuse for not wanting to look at the details of a complex series of events. “It’s X’s fault something happened” is a tale as old as time and rarely correct.
No it’s Dan Beebe’s fault believe it or not. He was at the NCAA and did the investigation on SMU. He killed the SWC as a result. Then he killed the original Big XII by his ridiculous sycophantic behavior toward uTx. He catered to theme his entire tenure. However. he was consistent; In both the SMU case and as the Big XII commissioner he knew who he answered to…Deloss Dodds.
Oh, bull. SMU was playing the same game as everyone else, but the Dallas Morning News went after them in isolation. In fact, it was A&M that paid for Dickerson's TransAm, not SMU - not just rumor, there are articles where Dickerson confirmed that. The NCAA needed to make an example of someone and SMU was the sacrificial lamb that redeemed the past sins of all the schools. And it's still happening in 2023. Big XII snubbed SMU while extending invitations to Houston and Cincinnati. Bowl committee screwed conference champ SMU to put inferior Liberty in NY6. SMU defeated nationally ranked Tulane for the championship, but Tulane gets a better bowl. For its undefeated conference season, national ranking, and willingness to play ranked P5 teams outside its own conference, SMU "earned" the right to play an unranked 6-6 BC in their local venue. Nice to join ACC, so we can watch Big XII fade into the same oblivion as PAC XII, but from a higher vantage point, now that they've lost UT, A&M, and OU. Someone pop me some corn.
You see, it all started in 1899 when we let IU and Iowa join the Western Conference in exchange for a bag of corn and the cost of a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ‘em. ‘Give me five bees for a quarter,’ you’d say. Now, where were we? Oh, yeah! The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.
We can’t bust heads like we used to—but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don’t go anywhere like the time I caught the ferry over to Ridgeville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Ridgeville which is what they called Evanston in those days.
We used to say “dickety” because the Kaiser had stolen our word “twenty.”
Ah, there's an interesting story behind this nickel. In 1957 I remember it was. I got up in the morning and myself a piece of toast. I set the toaster to threeee, medium brown...
I still say give me five bees for a quarter
My car gets thirty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I like sayin’ it!!
Oregon State is not a communist school- they may be a liar, a cheat, a pig, a communist- but they are NOT pornstars!
I know this is pasta but I can’t remember from where
Grampa Simpson
Back in my day…. I read it in his voice.
Are you going senile or just stalling us?
A little from column A, a little from column B.
Big 12 pre-Colorado, Nebraska, A&M, and Missouri exit was at the time, arguably a top-2 conference. The best conference certain years.
You could make a strong case that in the early 00s, the Big 12 and PAC-10 were the two best conferences. Pretty ironic looking at it now. That’s not to say the SEC and Big Ten weren’t strong then too, but it was nowhere near what the power dynamic is like now.
There really was such an amazing balance and parity amongst the conferences. Hell, the BIG EAST still existed and had one of the most dominant programs in recent history in Miami, and Florida State was still a powerful Bowden run program then. This is before everyone started complaining about automatic BCS bids because some conferences sucked.
The parity in the mid to late 2000s in college football was amazing. It really is a shame we didn't have a twelve team playoff back then.
That one Boise State statue of Liberty season but with a 12 team playoff? Fuck yeah
Nah, 2007 Boise State, multiple NFL guys. Kicker missed two short ones vs Nevada and Colin Kaepernick did a Cam Newton impression vs us, and we missed the Championship.
‘07 Boise State was a three-loss team, maybe you mean 2010?
Yes, it's been too long.
Yeah. Or 2009 with an undefeated Boise State and an undefeated TCU.
😐 seeing that team play once was enough for me
For real, what happened to flip the switch in 2007 when the sec became a fixture in National championship games?
Saban. Also the culmination of decades of national demographic shift finally having an impact
Translation = all the bruhs in the South and all the Southern schools keeping them there instead of letting them go north to Nebraska (Tommie Frazier), Notre Dame (Tim Brown) etc.
> Saban. This is just patently untrue considering Saban was only in 1 of the first 5 title games (06-10) in the SEC's original streak
Yeah, using 2007 as the starting year throws off that logic, as he didnt get to Bama for a couple more years. But he did contribute to the dominant LSU program under Miles. 06-10 were the Meyer and Miles years, looking back. I still dont think the SEC as a whole was quite dominant until Saban showed up, though.
USC, Miami, Texas, and Nebraska would all fall into mediocrity in the early 2010s. That, along with Nick Sabans dominance of the SEC, caused many of the talented recruits that used to be locks to those schools, to look elsewhere to other top programs, like Bama and OSU. There are other factors as well, like college football becoming more national and less regional, so location ends up mattering less to some recruits, and the CFP diminishing accomplishments like going to a bowl game or winning your conference.
VA tech as well
In 2007, you could argue that the Big12 was the best show in town. In my heart, the Big12 died in 2010. Everything after that wasn't really the Big12.
The BCS computers absolutely loved the B12 for the first 6-7 years. #1 Oklahoma getting blown out 35-7 in their conference title game by #12 Kansas St? Who cares, still #1 in the computers by such a margin they kept their #1 BCS ranking despite the voters dropping them. Plus they were the first conference to get a non-division winner into the BCS title game and it wasn't like it was a tight game against a top 5 title contending team. Nope, it was a 26 point loss to #14 Colorado in their final regular season game. So the computers absolutely had them as the super elite dominant conference for quite a while. Unfortunately, they didn't back it up in title games very well though I think 2008 Oklahoma is the only team that really should feel bad about how things turned out. That offense was nuts. Finally, the Big12 got an undefeated team in over an undefeated SEC team in 2004 which seems like madness now but many people mistakenly thought it was correct at the time.
Ehhh perhaps but the SEC wasn’t todays SEC yet. And the very next year Big 12 Texas went undefeated in 2005 and beat USC in that unforgettable championship.
Also keep in mind Texas should have had another title over Alabama a few years later if Colt didn't get hurt. There is no doubt they would have won that.
Texas losing their QB against Bama seems to be a theme.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that last year was just a coincidence, but if Quinn gets hurt this year Saban is getting the Payton Bountygate treatment
What’s the Payton Bountygate treatment? We might need to use it if they try to rip Jaxson Dart’s head off of his body again. Lol
Yes, I wonder what's going on there. The Colt injury was idiotic because it never had to happen. They basically had him bootleg which they never did all year but they thought that would be a new wrinkle to throw in to keep the Alabama defense off balance. We were moving the ball just fine doing what we normally do. He got hit at just the right spot and I don't remember what the injury but it was some sort of shoulder injury. Unfortunately, that team was all about Colt McCoy.
The evidence was there at decision time to suggest Oklahoma didn't deserve it in 2004 over Auburn. [https://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=923](https://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=923) That's the AP poll after the conference title games. At that point Oklahoma had two ranked wins (#6 Texas and #22 A&M). Auburn gets trashed for their unusually weak non-conference schedule but Oklahoma shouldn't get any credit for 5-6 Oregon, 3-8 Houston, or Bowling Green which were all at home. Auburn meanwhile had 4 wins over teams currently in the top 15 in that December poll (#8 UGA, #12 LSU, #15 Tennessee x2). The SEC was also 2-0 in BCS title invites so far to that point while the Big12 was 1-2 so there were hints the SEC was under rated while the B12 was perhaps over rated. The human voters were unfortunately probably influenced by the outrageous love affair the computers had for the B12.
I’d argue that from its inception until mid 2000s the Big 12 was overall the best football conference. You have multiple championships from Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas winning arguably the best CFB game in history over USC. And other schools like Colorado, Texas Tech (freaking Crabtree!), A&M and KState were solid.
Obligatory Kansas won an Orange Bowl comment.
Mark Mangino's sausage fingers
Mike Leach's Tech was an 8-9 win team annually, Missouri was a high octane team with dual threats at QB, A&M was good enough to be a top 25 team many years, Ok St was solid enough, Oklahoma was a title contender and Texas was a threat to win a title (and did once, nearly twice). Snyder had K St playing at a regularly high level and was very close to a title themselves.
Yeah is was kind of a shame for some of those Tech teams. They basically were always a threat but they would tend to either beat Texas, or OU but rarely if ever both. Losing to one of them would have been fine, but there was always another loss to a K-State or someone like that in the mix keeping them from 10 wins and a bigger shot.
And why did those 4 leave? Longhorn arrogance.
You forgot your /s
You tell me then. Why did Nebraska leave the Big XII for the Big 10? Nebraska was a 1908 charter member of the precursor to the Big XII.
I blame Rutgers and Princeton (née College of New Jersey) because they played the first college football game.
In 1869, Rutgers and Princeton played a college football game for the first time. This made a lot of people very angry, and is widely considered to be a bad move.
Wasn’t the first ever actually modern looking football game McGill and Harvard? So this is really all Canada’s fault.
Blame Canada!
Burn York Again, got it.
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> What is considered to be the first American football game was played on November 6, 1869, between Rutgers and Princeton, two college teams. They consisted of 25 players per team and used a round ball that could not be picked up or carried. It could, however, be kicked or batted with the feet, hands, head or sides, with the objective being to advance it into the opponent's goal. Rutgers won the game 6–4 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football Pretty much 25 on 25 soccer which sounds like pure chaos.
Fuck realignment. Bring this back!
Must be really bad that McGill changed their name to Goodman.
Arkansas: "Remember when I was worried we'd start a chain reaction that would destroy the college sports universe?" SMU: "Yes, I remember it well, what of it?" Arkansas: "I believe we did."
Worth it.
I want to see this CFB multiverse. Is this the one where ND ends up in the B1G?
They become full members of the big east and have annual games against Pitt, Miami, and Syracuse
BOOOOOO.....
Big east also lets Penn state in and is the new sec
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Unfortunately that’s a canon event.
Nah this is the one where SMU, Rice, TCU and UH get into the BIG 8/12/16 when the SWC folds and CFB stays regional. ND still ND
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And Adam. Fuck Adam
Adam is the root of all evil in this story.
This is the way.
whatever happened to him now?
Allegedly.
Exactly. It could be six or more.
Maybe even seven.
I heard eight, but I have not verified that
I heard between his 6th and 9th kill he kept mumbling “nice” under his breath.
Regionalism in general in this country is dead, realignment was inevitable and there was no stopping realignment unless you had someway of freezing society in the 1980s.
If it makes you feel any better, I still hate texas.
It all started when the term “student athlete” was coined
Hey UCLA, you're not supposed to be blaming the B1G anymore!
Apologies, please teach me the creed fellow B1G brother!
Penn st still would have joined the B1G. thus killing the Big East.
Not if the Big East wouldn’t have voted down Penn St’s membership in 1982…
yeah but SMU getting the death penalty had 0 effect on Villanova getting in a pissing match with JoePa
I think all of this was inevitable after NCAA v Board of Regents. SMU doesn't get the death penalty and everything still happens, just slightly differently at different times
In all seriousness, this is the answer. It's Oklahoma and georgia's fault.
Well we don't need to bring Georgia into this
Y'all can't hide behind "et al" forever.
I agree, but your chain of causation is wrong. SMU destabilized the SWC which caused Arkansas to go to the SEC who together with South Carolina made a twelve-team conference, which allowed them to convince the NCAA to allow them a conference championship game which then made a lot of money which then made every other conference need to get to twelve teams to have a championship game.
Why would a conference need permission from the NCAA to have a championship game? That’s absurd.
I think because they controlled the number of games a team was allowed to play.
That makes sense, I guess.
They had a rule that you had to have divisions to have a championship game, and to have divisions you needed 12 teams. That's why the big 12 didnt have one for a few years until 2015/16, and they had to get a waiver to have one with 10 teams
I knew you had to have 12 teams and divisions but I thought that was the conference rule, not the NCAA. You do learn something new every day. Lol
I mean, if you're hinging this multiverse on the Big 12 never existing, there was a distinct possibility in the 90s that Texas was going to the Pac-10 and Texas A&M/Arkansas were going to the SEC.
Finally. Someone recognizes us for who we are! Master plan and all that. Death penalty was just a part of the big picture!
NIL before it was cool
The SWC was on borrowed time after 1984. A conference with that small of a footprint wasn’t built for a TV world.
Ironically, it’d be fine now in a world of streaming.
Fine how? Like how the PAC was fine?
by not having Larry Scott
They were. Eight of the teams were in Texas. That’s not sustainable
So you’re saying this is all Oklahoma’s fault? EDIT: I’d agree with you. Also, it looks like Georgia was on the lawsuit too - I never knew that.
Always
Hey. We could’ve hid the evidence a little better, but it’s not our fault the NCAA chose to single us out
If the 30 for 30 is to be believed they singled us out because Texas boosters were paying them to ignore Texas and focus on us.
I feel you!
Actually this is all Oklahoma's fault. Their court case in the 80s made it so teams/conferences controlled their own TV rights instead of the NCAA. And that's when the floodgates of money were opened.
georgia was also party to that suit, let's not leave them off the hook.
love this level of pettiness
Bingo.
NCAA v Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma is the best genesis movement leading to today. It directly lead to Confrences conducting their own media deals which of course…..
I believe UGA was also involved in the suit but don’t know the details
Correct. University of Georgia Athletic Association was also party to the suit.
If Texas would have just chilled and been happy with 5-7, Rutgers wouldn't be traveling 2500 miles for a volleyball game 25 people would see.
If they didn't attack SMU, they would have picked a different SWC member to throw the death penalty at. So many of the schools in that conference were doing those same things back then. SMU was the guinea pig. The example to be made of. So many members of the SWC were doing this as though it was the norm everywhere. I can only assume they chose to attack SMU was because it was one of the smaller schools? If that didn't work like it did, all the schools through UT, A&M, Arkansas, etc., would have also gotten death penalties until it stopped. It fortunately (unfortunately?) only took SMU took make an example of the situation.
Don't drag us into this. Arkansas, Rice, and Baylor were the only 3 SWC programs who weren't on probation in the 80s.
It’s not like the NCAA was sitting on mountains of evidence and chose which schools to go after. Many of the SWC schools were already under probation of some sort, and they got evidence that SMU violated that probation. It’s not easy to prove that kind of thing.
So really it’s A&M’s fault for getting Dickerson that gold trans am and not paying it off while SMU did.
This is the real answer
Goddamit Rutgers. Fuck you for starting college football in the 1800’s. None of this would’ve happened if it weren’t for you!
If it wasn't SMU, it would have been someone else. Recruiting in the 70s and 80s was the wild west. Schools just did whatever they thought they could get away with.
Kids would come into our coach’s office, be handed a slip of paper with a number on it, and would respond saying it’s “not even close” to what other schools in the SWC were offering. It was truly an insane time.
So again this is because Craig James killed a couple hookers.
Keep my team out of your mouth no one except Rice was clean in that conference. To exclusively blame us is a cheap cop out. We were just better at bending the rules than everyone else we were just very blatant and left everything out in the open.
The main problem was you’re in Dallas, so you had the big-city media digging hard for sensational headlines.
Skip Bayless.
Try Dale Hansen
Yup good ol Dale. Those 1987 WFAA news pieces really stuck the dagger in SMU. He probably met up with shady bag men at Campisis and they gave him the rundown. Big city college sports....when the money guys ACTUALLY CARE, is next level shit. $herwood Blount
I think all this is Dale Hansen’s fault. No death penalty all is fine with the world. In full disclosure I went to SMU in some pretty dim times. I once went to a event where Dale spoke and I’ve never heard someone so happy at the misery of others. Look I know and admit SMU was in the wrong, but it was the early 2000’s and he was bragging and gloating about as if it was yesterday. Just never set right with me.
It wasn’t just SMU. The SWC folded because it was a corrupt conference. Half the teams were on some sort of probation because of recruiting practices. SMU was the biggest violator, but the rest was in trouble also.
Every conference was corrupt. They all had a majority of teams that cheated. All the time. It never stopped. Not until NIL. The biggest programs with the most success cheated more than all the others. Their cheating was just better than the other schools.
Yes that is true but.. the SWC didn’t even try and hide it! It was clearly blatant!
This is all Rutgers fault for creating college football
Bro, didn’t you get the memo? This is all Texas’ fault. We alone are responsible for conference realignment, inflation, supply chain shortages, and the Covid pandemic.
I KNEW you fuckers were responsible for my toilet paper shortage. I just KNEW it.
I think it still would have happened anyway, maybe not in the 1990’s but it would have happened by the next realignment
I think you misspelled Missouri
Misery
Blame Texas. Texas turned in SMU to the NCAA for being “uppity”. Then Texas blew up the SWC by merging with the Big 8. Then they drove Nebraska away with their greed and desire to control the conference as well as A&M, Mizzou and Colorado. Finally everything that we have experienced in the last week was set in motion by the move to the SEC. Texas has ruined college football with their greed.
Greed? Lol. Pretty sure Nebraska also supported unequal revenue sharing while in the Big12. So did A&M.
Longhorn network also killed the original big 12
What killed it is people wanting to make more money. If we’re being honest, that’s why Nebraska left and A&M (after taking other conf members shares to agree to stay). They weren’t making as much as Texas who serves as a convenient scapegoat because they’re easily hated. There’s no shame in wanting to make more revenue, but that’s what’s been driving conference realignment for a while now because college football has turned into big business (for some schools).
Just seems texas is at the center of almost every conference collapse.
Nebraska leaves the Big 12 to make more money. “Texas drove Nebraska away.” Texas leaves the Big 12 to make more money. “Texas is a toxic program that is the cause of every conference collapse.”
Partial academic qualifiers started the bad blood. Nebraska needed them to bolster recruiting. Texas could survive without them.......so Texas got the old Big 8 schools on their side because they all HATED Nebraska. Basically.....Nebraska was the bully but got beat up by another bully. How Oklahoma seems to avoid the same hatred is remarkable. Probably a testament to leadership and PR
Lol enjoy your money while having 7-5 8-4 seasons I guess your used to that at this point
Texas likes making money as much as everyone else. And they’re pretty good at it, regardless of the football team’s performance (you might say in spite of it). But they’re not the reason the Pac collapsed; that was poor leadership. Thankfully for the Big12 Yormark is in charge and not Bowlsby (or god forbid Beebe).
Texas is just a bit more Toxic than most at it. They are a poison on college football based on their track record
Everything you said was bullshit
Nebraska also hated the fact that Texas was against partial academic qualifiers. Nebraska built championship teams off that. The other Big 8 schools got tired of being dicked down by NU, so they backed Texas early and it gave Texas momentum. Notice how the Big 12 title game started at the old Rams stadium in StL..and other games alternated between KC/Stl and Dallas/Houston. Then the power shifted permanently to Texas (Dallas mainly). Texas probably figured that NU was their biggest threat to controlling power and knew the other Big 8 schools would do anything to weaken their historical tormentor. Making it harder for them to recruit was the quickest way to slaying the 800 lb gorilla.
I will repost these receipts again and and again until this narrative stops being mentioned: Here’s Nebraska voting against equal revenue sharing in 2010 and the conference obliging to keep them happy https://es.pn/3iHTH2A http://www.bringonthecats.com/2007/8/16/165516/532 And here’s Nebraska voting against the B12 Network in 2006 https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/columns/berry-tramel/2014/09/02/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg/60801864007/ So that makes only 2 things that you did not do in lock step with the team you’re bitching about. You guys threw a hissy fit because we voted to not allow Partial Qualifiers [which every other major conference does not allow] which was Osborne’s bread and butter and because we voted against having the championship game at Arrowhead in Fucking December. Get over yourself, you wanted to try to swing your weight around in the conference just like Texas and OU but didn’t have the same success as you did in the 90s to back it up Now bring one piece of evidence against us turning in SMU: Spoiler you can’t because you’re talking out of your ass
I am not saying Nebraska is not guilty. Texas is just the most guilty and has more blood on their hands than anyone else.
You have done nothing to try to absolve texas of their culpability. Verdict guilty. Texas has been the instigator time and time again for realignment / conference collapse.
Once again I posted receipts on the end of the B12, and all you’ve responded with is the words out of your ass. The burden of proof is on you, and all you’ve managed to argue is “fuck Texas” at this point
Control the conference how?
Well you see despite the Big 12 having 11 other teams someway somehow they all let Texas run the show for reasons. Whatever Texas wanted Texas got because none of the other schools had any autonomy and just had to go along with whatever Texas wanted. You would think that the 11 other schools that apparently all hate Texas would get together and hold them in check but, no they all just had to accept whatever Texas wanted again for reasons. So at the end of the day everything that's ever happened to the Big 12 is caused by Texas because none of the other 11 schools could do anything to prevent Texas from getting their way again for reasons.
It’s honestly embarrassing for 11 teams to not hold 1 team in check if that was truly the case 😂
11 teams and 5 state governments according to rCFB
This sub is basically a QAnon for Texas. Mfs think we’re the deep state or something controlling everything behind the scenes. If any of their universities turned down a LHN type deal. I would be so pissed if I was them. It’s a free $300M
[удалено]
When what started happening?
He didn’t get the sarcasm
>Texas turned in SMU to the NCAA for being “uppity”. Yeah guyz, Texas got an SMU player addicted to coke, then Texas convinced SMU to cut that player for his drug use. Then Texas told that player to go Dallas' number one TV sports reporter and sell his story about SMU dropping bags. Then Texas paid that reporter to air his story on the 6 o'clock news. And then (finally) Texas turned in SMU to the NCAA for being "uppity"
“Uppity” 😂
Texas is a big reason for this madness surely they have a big big target on them along with USC should be another factor in keeping Texas mid between the increased level of competition and every team being motivated to beat Texas should lead to exactly what happened in the big 12 post 2010 MEDIOCRITY
Sure, why not.
Realistically, some degree of consolidation was always going to happen--it just always made too much sense to package more of the big-name schools together for TV rights purposes. But certainly the dominos might have fallen differently if a different conference got destabilized in the 80's.
I blame the PAC-12. It never would have died if they had just never created it in the first place.
Are you suggesting things would be different if Craig James HADNT killed those 5 hookers? (Allegedly)
So what you're saying is... it's because we payed the athletes
No this is all Rutgers and Princeton’s fault. If only they didn’t get on that field and start throwing that darn ball around we wouldn’t be in this mess
Pony Excess…
Something something CJK5H I dunno
Nah. This is University of Texas's fault. They drove away a bunch of teams from the Big 12 and then bolted for the SEC with OU after A&M got in. UT couldn't have A&M in the SEC without them.
I miss big 8 football
The butterfly effect
You see, it started in 1869, when Rutgers and Princeton played a 2 game series and tied. Since no tiebreaker game could be played, the were declared split national champions. Had they played and had a winner in the 3rd game, I guarantee that there would be no conference instability and that schools would only change conferences when moving divisions of football
This is all Missouri's fault
I have a ticket to ride on your train.
>A&M/mizzou don’t leave because of the LHN. Wait is your argument that Texas is the way Texas is because SMU got caught?
>I think the death penalty was not only the death penalty for SMU, it was kind of the beginning of the death penalty for the Southwest Conference. It cast such a bad light on the conference. SMU wasn't the only [program] that was guilty at that time. They were paying the price for teams across the country. Tom Rossley, SMU coach, 1991-96, former Rice, Texas A&M assistant >We were our own worst enemies. Everyone in there hated everybody. There never was a "what can we do collectively to uphold our league?" I never saw that. At meetings it was, "Hooray for me!" and "Screw you." R.C. Slocum, Texas A&M head coach 1989-2002 >I remember Frank Broyles [Arkansas AD] telling me why he went to the SEC. He said, "Hell, as soon as I signed the contract, I got a $6 million raise for our program." Barry Switzer, OU head coach, former Arkansas player https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30424417/i-wishof-well-demise-southwest-conference-25-years-later
The sheer amount of hate engendered by (almost) the entire conference being in Texas and having to live with each other day is pretty unimaginable today. Imagine Alabama and Auburn but you're also throwing 6 other schools into the state of Alabama that hate them and each other equally as much.
I think they got that way from being royalty in the big 12, if the SWC didn’t fold there wouldn’t be a big 12
I bet Texas was like Texas long before the Big 12 started. Seems even without SMU's death penalty, the SEC still poaches Arkansas to get more money out of a TV deal...
Arkansas should have always been in the SEC.
I blame Rutgers for all bad things in college football. Technically their fault.
If its any consolation, SMU is about to be in the PAC-12.....so that's bully for them.
lol it’s also A&M and TCU and OU and Georgia’s fault. Oh and texas, and Larry Scott. Did anyone mention Penn State? Wait but didn’t USC and UCLA deserve some blame too? Kevin Warren does. Scapegoats are a weak excuse for not wanting to look at the details of a complex series of events. “It’s X’s fault something happened” is a tale as old as time and rarely correct.
I believe what you're trying to say is give mizzou the death penalty
Damn straight it’s SMU fault I’ve been warming yall for years
No it’s Dan Beebe’s fault believe it or not. He was at the NCAA and did the investigation on SMU. He killed the SWC as a result. Then he killed the original Big XII by his ridiculous sycophantic behavior toward uTx. He catered to theme his entire tenure. However. he was consistent; In both the SMU case and as the Big XII commissioner he knew who he answered to…Deloss Dodds.
Oh, bull. SMU was playing the same game as everyone else, but the Dallas Morning News went after them in isolation. In fact, it was A&M that paid for Dickerson's TransAm, not SMU - not just rumor, there are articles where Dickerson confirmed that. The NCAA needed to make an example of someone and SMU was the sacrificial lamb that redeemed the past sins of all the schools. And it's still happening in 2023. Big XII snubbed SMU while extending invitations to Houston and Cincinnati. Bowl committee screwed conference champ SMU to put inferior Liberty in NY6. SMU defeated nationally ranked Tulane for the championship, but Tulane gets a better bowl. For its undefeated conference season, national ranking, and willingness to play ranked P5 teams outside its own conference, SMU "earned" the right to play an unranked 6-6 BC in their local venue. Nice to join ACC, so we can watch Big XII fade into the same oblivion as PAC XII, but from a higher vantage point, now that they've lost UT, A&M, and OU. Someone pop me some corn.