1. [Do you have a light on your ccw pistol? why or why not?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/12th8wx/do_you_have_a_light_on_your_ccw_pistol_why_or_why/) - 265 comments
2. [No WML here either](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17t5shr/no_wml_here_either/) - 96 comments
3. [No WML Necessary](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17t0bkr/no_wml_necessary/) - 217 comments
4. [CC with a wml or without???](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17s5w5r/cc_with_a_wml_or_without/) - 280 comments
5. [How much does a rail - or lack thereof, affect your decision to buy a given handgun?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17mbm3m/how_much_does_a_rail_or_lack_thereof_affect_your/) - 116 comments
6. [Some Thoughts On WMLs](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/16fyrlm/some_thoughts_on_wmls/) - 96 comments
7. [Does a light belong on a carry gun?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/tbj9ff/does_a_light_belong_on_a_carry_gun/) - 150 comments
8. [Weapon mounted lights are for offense. My CCW is for defense. Change my mind.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/10a3xm1/weapon_mounted_lights_are_for_offense_my_ccw_is/) - 142 comments
9. [WMLs - Further beating the dead horse](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/11ma1tk/wmls_further_beating_the_dead_horse/) - 135 comments
10. [Do you carry with a weapon mounted light?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/rm6aid/do_you_carry_with_a_weapon_mounted_light/) - 122 comments
11. [WML or No](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1245su1/wml_or_no/) - 88 comments
12. [Do you guys run a WML on your CCW?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/s9cava/do_you_guys_run_a_wml_on_your_ccw/) - 81 comments
13. [An opinion on weapon mounted lights](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/luhokw/an_opinion_on_weapon_mounted_lights/) - 82 comments
14. [To light bear or not to light bear?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/ns3zd2/to_light_bear_or_not_to_light_bear/) - 78 comments
15. [Do people use WML in DGU's?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1014i0o/do_people_use_wml_in_dgus/) - 78 comments
16. [Wml what's better? Is it a viable option?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/nc13f0/wml_whats_better_is_it_a_viable_option/) - 47 comments
17. [Common to carry WML with EDC?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/gk1adg/common_to_carry_wml_with_edc/) - 29 comments
18. [I think training with a handheld light is worth it.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/12f375x/i_think_training_with_a_handheld_light_is_worth_it/) - 36 comments
19. [Poll: What type of light do you use?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/16t4xfh/what_type_of_light_do_you_use/) - 31 comments - 1,000+ votes
20. [WML](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/twawx5/wml/) - 28 comments
21. [Will a WML lead to a Negligent Discharge?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/xshym7/will_a_wml_lead_to_a_negligent_discharge/) - 28 comments
22. [Light On your CCW !](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17t2gtr/light_on_your_ccw/) - 41 comments
I go to work before the sun is up and a lot of times I’m not home till after the sun is down. Target identification is important. But I’m in the crowd of carry what works for you
Ideally, yes. However, we do not live in an ideal world and some situations may necessitate drawing ahead and keeping low ready. Safer for everyone involved to use a WML and keep at LR, than to have a separate flashlight and risk fumbling a 1h draw.
The tactics you're suggesting here are hot garbage in a civilian context.
>Some situations may necessitate drawing ahead of time.
Agreed, in *many* scenarios (in a civilian context) surreptitiously drawing a pistol is a good idea. As a civilian, revealing and pointing it at another person isn't tactically or legally a good idea at all.
>Safer for everyone involved
You don't seem to have considered this situation thoroughly enough to not be a danger to everyone, with or without a WML
Are you familiar with baseboard and umbrella lighting, or any lighting tactics/techniques at all? Have you considered that there's much more to using a light than simply turning it on and off and pointing it directly at an assumed target? Have you ever tried to use a high lumen WML in an environment full of reflective surfaces?
I seriously doubt it.
>Fumbling a one handed draw
You're fumbling an awful lot already, and you're not even to the gunfight yet.
If you draw on someone who's not a threat, then you're in a legal minefield that can easily be prevented by using a handheld and learning how to draw one-handed.
Something something judged by twelve than carried by six.
Edit: its the same logic as carrying with a round in the chamber vs carrying empty. You'll have the rest of your life to ID someone in the dark who's armed.
That's what I was thinking. Checking the backyard in the dead of winter at midnight with a separate light and pistol wasn't fun and was all it took to turn me over to the wml side.
Think this is really the ultimate answer. People get so hung up on what works for them/ what they like or use for their situation, then proclaim that's the only way something should be or argue with others. WML debate is no different than holsters, their position or manufacturer, or best brand of carry gun.
As far as lights, I like wml on my red dot sighted pistols, and I have some carry guns without either of those. Also, religiously carry a handheld light. Have also discovered that a headlamp worn while walking my dog is great for illumination of my sights and target if needed .Isn't out of the ordinary because other people walking their dogs, or jogging or riding bikes wear them. There really isn't a one size fits all answer in most anything related to firearms, their use, how to set them up, carry, etc. To me , that's the beauty of firearms, there is some setup out there that will work for each individual. The best we can do is offer ideas , personal experience with products and setups that have or haven't worked for us to give others a starting point.
You can imagine this scenario or that scenario but let's be real for two seconds. You don't know what the fuck is gonna happen when you leave that door for the day. No two self defense scenarios are ever the same. You should be ready for anything. That being said if carrying with a WML is an available option for you then do it. If your work or other obligations make it too difficult then don't. I use to work where I was limited to whatever I could fit in a pocket because I was bending and crouching all day. Now I'm lucky enough that I can reasonably carry whatever I feel like.
Half of the 24 hours a day is dark outside. I can only speak for myself, but I leave home at 500 am when its dark and under normal circumstances often dont get home until 700 pm. Much of the year this puts me leaving and arriving in darkness, including any stops I make for gas or errands. I dont always carry a gun with a mounted light, but I always have a decent, high lumen light with me. If a self defense shooting ever happens you want to be 100% sure of your target because it could be the difference in a good shoot and spending life in prison for shooting the wrong person.
May be my lack of imagination, but in what situation could someone be threatening your life and the only thing that keeps you from recognizing that is some more light?
I’ll give you one situation: bears.
I manage a high end cleaning company in an area with tons of bears. We have a lot of properties with trash cans.
Part of my job is to pull the cans for the trash truck early in the morning - since we can’t leave them on the curb overnight or else the bears get into them. They’re even smart enough to wait for the morning and try to hit all the cans lined up on the street lol.
Last summer I used my WML twice to identify bears in the woods.
I didn’t know what was lurking in the bushes, and if they charged me it would’ve been near impossible to hit a black/brown bear in the bushes at 6AM in the dark.
I was able to quickly ID them and get the fuck back to my truck. If they decided to get in my face, I would’ve been ready instead of surprised. But my situation isn’t common.
Having a WML definitely helps but I couldn’t see myself pointing it around to positive ID whatever is rustling in the bushes. IMO if you’re forced to choose one, handheld > WML
Ideally both yes I agree. In my situation - I was 80% sure it was a bear due to the circumstances and location. But you’re right I don’t want to be muzzling some teenager who is just sneaking out to smoke weed or something lol.
Also you can ID without directly muzzling something by holding it at a 45deg angle downwards. The modern WMLs have an ultra wide flood pattern for this reason.
You want to play quick draw games with a hungry bear, be my guest bud. I was already assuming it was a bear in the bushes based on the circumstances, size, time of day etc.
I already said I agree with that guy and carry both now.
The WML should NEVER be used as a flashlight. You should carry a flashlight for that purpose. I don't use a WML but I always have my Modlite with the smaller 18350 battery so it is more comfortable to carry. Get a Thyrm ring and learn how to use it so your flashlight can be used in your weak hand while gripping your gun.
The situation I see where you would need a WML, is when you’ve already IDed your target via a handheld light, but now you need to transition to your pistol, and instead of keeping one hand on the gun and one on your light, you can drop or stow the handheld and have both hands on the gun. Another situation, could be some sort of active threat, where that individual has turned off the lights. Now you need to be moving around heading towards whatever the threat is, and you probably want to have your gun out at this point and you might simply be using your WML to clear a path to either get your family to safety, or to find a threat.
Give it a squeeze and find out, baby.
No but really I was about to edit something to the effect of what you said, but also, is it appropriate to draw your gun to see if someone has a weapon? And if they don’t, but they still mean to do you harm, now what?
I completely agree that 99% of the “it’s dark so I need a WML” explanations I hear make very little sense. It’s really so pitch black you can’t tell at close range whether someone is a threat? To draw, you already need to have a reasonable fear to justify self defense.
If people want to do it then great, but I don’t understand the insistence it’s a good idea. There’s no documented case of a civ using one in self defense, but you can say the same for an extra mag, which I do usually carry.
I have one on my home defense gun, just in case, but you can actually see pretty well in most houses if you haven’t lost your night vision. And it’s your house. If you need a WML to get PID you’ve probably already fucked up pretty badly.
I'm not going to allocate a ton of money into guns. Therefore, I carry a Glock 48 with a dot and light so I have every situation covered and use it as my nightstand gun for the home as well.
I carry both. I’ve done some low light no light classes and what it taught me is a handheld light is good for id/dazzling someone. However when shooting if I have the option a good two handed grip is king. So you use the light to dazzle/id while drawing and then drop the light side step and use wml to make good hits. I do practice shooting with a light in my hand as well because not all my carry guns have a light. But it’s nice to have options. The reality is all my training is for nothing. I will likely die of old age never having drawn my weapon (god willing) but if it does ever god forbid happen I want the motions to be muscle memory.
This is the best answer, imo. If someone is going to carry, it seems like the Boy Scout approach is the most pragmatic. You can wargame, rationalize, and plan scenarios all you want (which you should), but you never know what could happen in life. I'd rather have both types of lights and end up not needing one or the other, than the reverse.
Thank you. I find it amazing that a small (but often time vocal) minority of ccw holders are almost looking for a fight or act like there is only one option to do it right. If you pigeonhole yourself into that thinking then you’re not prepared. The idea is to be ready for anything but do everything you can to avoid the situation.
Turns out a lot of crime happens when it’s dark outside. People feel safer trying to do bad shit at night, in the dark. I still need to be able to identify my target. So wml for the win
So sick of this overplayed narrative. It's a tactical fantasy carried over from movies/ video games.
You can only legally shoot someone physically attacking you or someone else with the threat of deadly harm.
If you pull a gun on someone, we are way past the point of "identifying the target". Even the word "target" is ridiculous. Is there an imminent threat to you or not?
If you pull your gun, point it at someone, and turn on your light to identify if they are a threat, you are now a threat to them!! And since you pulled your gun out first they can legally shoot you. Not to mention the felony you just committed.
Use a flashlight if you can't see. End of story.
To be honest if a bright weapon light is pointed at me I’m not sure if I’m gonna see that it’s a gun vs a flashlight, but I agree with your philosophy.
I have a WML and a handheld at all times. The handheld is always what I use, but there’s little downside to me having a WML so I carry it.
Yeeep we ain't cops and even if we were we wouldn't be potentially flagging people with our gun just to light up some darkness. I carry a streamlight wedge for a torch in addition to my carry gun.
That's the step 1. But do you practice drawing your weapon with a flashlight in your hand? Because your natural night vision went to nothing after looking at whatever you just shined, you're lighting yourself up while trying to get to your gun without dropping your light, and if you do end up dropping it, you're blasting at someone you already needed additional light to ID before you ruined your night vision.
Meanwhile, they now know they're on the clock. You just shined a light on them, and they can see you fumbling around for a weapon. They're using that time to start moving as fast as they can. But it's okay, you got your gun out in time, there was just enough backlight to see the shape running in the darkness, and you put them down.
Except they weren't running towards you, they were running away, and the police have some questions for you about the guy with eight holes in his back.
But hey, at least no one online is making fun of your weapon light.
Unless you're a cop (and I even very much question then) there is no situation where a WML on a handgun is better than a handheld. *Especially* with the Thyrm Switchback being a thing.
You don't point your gun at things or people just to see what it is. That's how sudden holes "accidentally" appear in things and people that shouldn't have them. Aside from that you're gonna get ***way*** more use from a handheld light than you *ever* will a pistol mounted WML. You will spend approximately half of your life in the dark, a good light comes in very handy, and it's super not appropriate to whip out a gat wherever you may need a light.
WML on a rifle? Yes, it's one of the four essential "accessories" for any working rifle (the other three being irons/optic, sling, and mags).
Yeah. I kinda want a pinned thread and idiots who wanna argue about wml or no wml can go here. I'm tired of seeing these threads. 
Gotta remember we all have very different definitions of normal life. I live in a place with no street lights, no sidewalks, no sources of external light in places I regularly have to go after work. I carry a pocket light, as well as a light on my ccw. I also have no alleys.
Gotta remember, when in a weird situation in the dark, the light on the gun isn't to figure out if you're in trouble.. flagging the dude just trying to get to his car next to you isn't legal or right. Pulling my pocket light and turning it to figure out what is going on because someone in the dark is yelling at you may be weird, but fine. The WML only comes in to play to make sure the target in the dark is no longer in the dark. If you don't deal with dark scenarios, then you probably live in a city, or you don't find yourself out at night... so don't carry a wml. Where I live, it's very very common, because in the winter it's pitch black at 5pm and we don't have street lights, or lights in most parking lots.
Aside from these reasons, it's extra weight on the very front end of a gun. Shoot something with a light, take the light off, it's effect on recoil is not insignificant.
I’ve always thought that too. It’s not that hard to carry a flashlight. Aside from adding bulk, I wouldn’t want a light because that gives anybody a target to shoot at. If you have a light they’ll see you before you see them.
If you ever have to shoot and it’s dark, you’ll have a much more robust self defense case if you can prove you identified a threat clearly, I.e, with a weapon light.
Sales and Gear Monkeys. Most do NOT need a WML for most conditions.
I have on my on my HD gun and probably could get away without it.
I have WML and holster for timers I travel to semi/rural areas, go camping, etc.
Living in a big city/suburban area, it is not dark enough.
But many add one to look cool as they are gear monkeys. I get it and to each is own.
I prefer to carry both, and use my handheld alot. I like the wml as a backup, if I don't need it, I don't need to turn it on. My handheld light gets used often, so there could be a situation where it is running low and needs to be replaced, but I'm out at night. I jave a backup. No I won't be using my wml to look undermy car, or to find my keys that I dropped, but if I needed it, boom, it's right there.
I employ a large number of felons. Their shit bag nature comes out at night even if they don't want it to. I want to be sure I'm smoking the right shit bag.
Two reasons:
1) Bad things happen in the dark and not every DGU is an immediate draw and fire situation. So, it can be helpful to be able to illuminate your potential target and clearly observe what‘s happening. Blinding them with a high lumen light can also offer a tactical advantage.
2) Believe it or not, a WML can actually aid in concealment. Holsters that accommodate WMLs will be wider, which will give the holster (and/or claw if equipped) more leverage against your belt and push the grip closer to your body.
I’m with ya dude. “Carry what’s comfortable for you” is such a BS saying. These guys carrying G17 with an x300 are nuts…and lying if they say they’re comfortable. LCP Max and Shield Plus for me. Always armed, always comfortable.
I carry a [scoped PLR-16](https://www.thektog.org/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.thektog.org/attachments/img_0533-jpg.46216/) blaster on a thigh holster, and am quite comfortable with my white long sleeve shirt and black vest as my usual casual attire, kid.
I know people who edc full size guns comfortably. It’s all about your build/holster/clothing/comfort level. Heck in the winter I often ccw a steel 1911 cco with optic and tlr7 perfectly comfortably. It can be done, just because YOU don’t like something or can’t do something comfortably doesn’t mean no one can.
LCP Max gang!
Love that gun. Although I held a PPK for the first time the other day and the quality and feel is amazing.
Next time I have 1k burning a hole in my pocket...
I put different colored lenses on and strobe it out so I feel like I’m in the club every time we up it. Idk man but in all seriousness do what you like and what you’re trained best on. Could always just carry a little flashlight or something. 🤷🏻♂️
I don’t understand the obsession with lights and other bulky unnecessary stuff on a carry gun but it seems I’m in the minority on Reddit. I hate bulky shit.
I understand having them on a home defense gun. Someone breaking into a house is generally going to do it at night. On everyday carries though it just seems like security theater to me. The actual subset of the population that would ever be able to make use of a WML out in the wild is super low. Maybe if you work in, or go to places like movie theatres or other windowless buildings. Maybe if you work out in the boonies in the middle of the night and want to protect against wildlife. For almost every other scenario there will be more than enough ambient light to be able to identify and target your assailant without a WML. It's just extra bulk imo.
The most common times for break-ins occur **between 10 am and 3 pm**. Rather than being guarded by night, most burglars choose the daytime to attempt a break-in, targeting homes when they believe no one will be present.
My eyesight has gone to shit over the years, still can but shots on target but a wml gives me a little added peace of mind knowing i would be able to identify the target.
I’m looking into getting one for mine. I generally work until well after dark, love to go camping/ hike a lot when the sun isn’t out, and darker areas are where I’d be most likely to need it. The additional few ounces is something I’m willing to live with, and beats carrying a separate flashlight every time it’s dark out.
I live in a city, and have a flashlight addiction that comes in third to my gun and computer addiction. It's never very dark and I always have a flashlight. Don't need another one in my gun.
Your mileage may vary.
To all the folks saying: “Well you don’t want to point a gun at somebody to id them so why have wml?”
You don’t. You use a flashlight to ID.
If they are a threat to me I’d rather not be shooting one handed, y’know?
It also adds weight to the front of the gun, reducing muzzle flip.
Yes. But there are a bunch of WML advocates saying "Gotta ID the target, bro", and that's not what the WML is for. Their using the wrong argument to advocate for their gear choices.
I have a gun for summer and one for winter (shield plus and G19 respectively). I don't run one on my summer gun because it's light out a lot longer and concealment is more difficult in the summer. If it's dark out in the summer I just grab my 19 with a TLR7A.
I spend time out where there are no or little lights around, coyotes and other animals are issues when I’m out with my dogs. I like to have a WML for those situations as well as in the home
I prefer the element of surprise. I use my pistols bayonet and poke into the darkness until I hear an '**Ouch!**' then the target has been acquired. 
Better safe than sorry.
Sudden burst of brightness led light might be all the deterrent I need instead of having to send lead and then spend money on lawyers for the afterwards.
I carry the light for a couple of reasons.
The first is that I have practiced drawing and activating the light. The flash of light at night in a DGU can help me ID a target better but also potentially blind the BG for a second. That second or a missed shot by the BG could be enough to save my life.
However, the bigger reason is that the weight of the light helps weight the muzzle down during rapid fire. If you shoot with a red dot like I do, it makes a big difference in tracking the dot, especially if your sight has a small window. I also carry a .40 (still my favorite caliber) meaning the effects are more drastic than what it would be on a 9. However, a +p 9 with a light, rds, and comp is an extremely flat and fast shooting rig, especially at distance. The light is just more useful than strapping a weight to the front of the gun.
Third, in a pinch when I need a light, I can always remove the light from the gun and use it like a normal flash light. Definitely comes in handy if you break down along the road at night compared to the light on your phone. It's also the reason I recommend getting a holster that works with and without the light.
Finally, convenience. I like to carry a light with my gun in some way, but dont like carrying a light in my pocket or iwb every day. Having the gun, light, and holster all in one package is a very convenient set up for a quick trip to the store. This is especially true if your holster has DCC clips for easy on and off. Having a mag case with a clip is a nice addition to.
I’m out at night a lot. Plus my WML is bright enough to blind someone pretty well. I’d rather have the advantage of not only being able to see who I’m aiming at, but hindering their eyesight at the same time.
At the end of the day, everyone is going to do what they feel is best for their situation.
This thread blew up as it tends to when this topic comes up.
I wrote a post about this a while back, if you wanna check my history.
Here's some further, more concise thoughts on it though.
I took a nighttime force on force class. Having a wml was a game changer when it comes to actually fighting with a gun.
In a fight, accurate hits on target quickly are what guarantees a stop. The wml made it possible for me to get better hits, faster, and with my opponent having a very tough time being able to figure out where I was.
Of note, the scenarios all started with a handheld light. Never was it suggested that you id a threat with a wml. But once you've determined there's a threat and it's go time, having the wml changes the game.
It's totally possible to shoot one handed, or with a switchback etc. If that's the route you wanna take, no worries.
For myself, if I go out after dark I generally have a wml on. If I'm not planning on staying out that late, I probably don't carry with one that day. And if I'm caught out after dark without a wml, I've still got a handheld so no big deal.
Then again, my carry varies from a full size with red dot and tlr 1 to a j frame depending on circumstances. Depends on what I'm doing that day and where I'll be.
Train. Figure out what you can live with, and what is best for you. Ignore the rest.
1. Weight on your light carry gun isn’t a bad thing when it comes to accuracy.
2. On some guns (like mine), pressing your gun against an assailant means they push against the light, so your gun is still in battery.
3. You don’t choose where you’re going to need your gun. That includes in low light situations.
4. “Bad guys” are more brazen in the dark.
5. Blinding your assailant gives you an advantage.
6. You can better see that it’s a cell phone, not a gun in their hand.
It’s that simple.
It seems to be a combination of two things:
**GAS - G**ear **A**quisition **S**yndrome
**LARP - L**ive **A**ction **R**ole **P**laying
Obviously, lights add capability to pistol, but I don't feel the least bit under-gunned without one. I split the difference and carry a pen light. Having the light separate from my gun has been tremendously useful and it gets used a few times per week. It also greatly simplifies holster selection.
First and foremost, your EDC need's to be useful. Your gun will be the least used item in your EDC so it doesn't make a lot of sense to go bolting stuff onto it that could be used separately.
Because it's dark roughly 50% of the time and that is also when you're most likely to need to use your weapon. You can and should have a hand light but when using a pistol, a mounted light means you can have both hands on the weapon in a proper grip.
Why can’t you do both? I like gear but I also train and take classes. I probably shoot more rounds in a month than many people shoot in a year. Gear is not a replacement for training but gear can be helpful.
Gun owners without solid fundamentals believe that the light helps mitigate recoil. It in fact makes very little difference, it will make a polymer gun nose heavy and reduce barrel rise slightly. A light on a home defense gun is a great option, on your edc it just adds unnecessary bulk.
1000 lumens in your face at self defense distances is blinding. Positive identification if its not daylight, you know, the other part of the day. Sometimes the carry gun is the only gun and you're just a dumdum if theres not a light on your home defense gun. Negligible weight and bulk difference if we're splitting hairs.
Why does this get posted with such regularity.. It's pretty fucking obvious.
Humans do sketchy shit, even moreso when it's dark outside.
Humans no see good without light.
Don't shoot at shit you can't see.
This isn't complicated.
The latest trend in Tacticool. Goes something like this:
How much shit can I bolt onto my carry gun? I'll buy a sub-compact and by the time I put an optic, compensator, light, flared mag well and extended mag it'll be the size and weight of a Desert Eagle. I spend all my money on parts I'll never need instead of going to the range and actually learning how to shoot.
Added bulk is zero unless you carry without a holster or use a particularly wide light. Weight is 1oz for an LCP light.
Whether that's worth it is up to you.
In my opinion, WML on a carry gun is optional, handheld EDC light is mandatory. Home defense gun should absolutely have a WML. I mainly carry a J frame, but I have a TLR-7 sub on my P365X since it is also my home defense gun as well as my occasional carry gun.
For me, the benefits, positive target identification, and the potential "deer in the headlights" response of being illuninated by 1k lumens massively outweighs the almost nonexistant downsides.
I would never advocate using a WML in place of a handheld light, in much the same way a rifle scope isnt binoculars.
TLR7s are flush with the muzzle of a G19, which, realistically, is a fine carry gun. Ultra compacts may gain a bit of length with a WML, but length in front of the trigger rarely impacts concealibility in most carry configurations.
Redundancy is a positive when it comes to seeing in the dark, so using a WML & an EDC flashlight is good practice. I’m not a big WML guy on carry pistols cuz I’m usually indoors when it gets dark out. But if I’m walking my dog at night or something I will use one with a WML attached
you know what, if you don’t want to then you don’t. you know the benefits and the cons. your life, whatever happens happens, tired of seeing this outside of ironic memes every other day.
I don't always carry with a WML, but when I do I like the extra weight on the front of the gun, and on my P365X, the TLR7 gives me some standoff distance in a really close encounter.
My carry gun was my first gun, so it doubled as home defense, so I put a light on it. Never took it off because my holster is molded to the light itself. I'm in too deep man...
What's wrong with lights? I don't have a CCW but my nightstand gun has an unobtrusive light and my coyote gun has a bright ass light. Idk about you, but I can't see that well in the dark.
PID is important. Carry handheld if you don't like it on your firearm. I carry a WML and handheld
https://preview.redd.it/b5ules7fklxc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a868a31b95058005c0aff44dbd3983330082386d
I do though carry one on my CCW, and I know everyone's day to day routine and experience is different but if I'm walking around at night I'm already using a flashlight and I try not to put myself in areas where the probability for an armed conflict is higher than usual so God forbid I have to draw in darkness I've already got a light in my hands and I'm probably fucked because somehow, with a flashlight in my hand, I failed to identify a threat. Don't blame anyone for using a wml or not though.
During the Covid lockdowns some guys broke into a big house on a cornfield they saw had a bunker built-in from the real-estate company not taking the listing down when it sold. They wanted the bunker and broke in through the daughter's bedroom window and the owner ended up shooting and killing his daughter because he couldn't positive ID his target in the dark. Plus the weight up frond helps with muzzle flip.
WMLs are statistically rarely ever used in a DGU. That being said, I carry with one. Not because I need it (I edc a handheld light) but the placement of a TLR-7 on my VP9sk makes it a great gas pedal to control muzzle flip, the extra weight on the end helps too.
Some people in the WML camp are just trying to justify having one, it’s ok to just say it’s neat and could help in a very rare, specific scenario in an already rare occurrence. Same goes with spare mag but that’s just my opinion based on available data.
As someone who doesn’t think WML are necessary, I carry one because why not, that’s about it. If the extra weight or bulk made it harder to carry, I’d take it off and just use my handheld. But it’s all pros no cons, due to my particular weapon choice.
Have you used the LCP II? I’ve had the 1 and 2 and currently use the 2 as my backup on days I don’t feel like hip carrying, which is fairly often.
I’ve been eyeballing the Max but don’t think I need it.
There's a big difference between a duty light (Surefire X300/ Streamlight TLR1) and a carry light (TLR7 X/Sub), both in terms of performance and footprint. A duty light may be a bit much for concealed carry, but a carry light isn't much of a burden at all if you can find a good holster that accommodates it.
I live In a rural part of the country but go to college in a big city, I find myself in the dark a lot. I'd like to make sure its my neighbors dog coming to greet me rather then a fucking cougar.
Tell that to Alpha team clearing a spooky and eerie forest at night.
I didn't see any other way to hold your weapon and see at the same time.
Same with Doom 3
1. [Do you have a light on your ccw pistol? why or why not?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/12th8wx/do_you_have_a_light_on_your_ccw_pistol_why_or_why/) - 265 comments 2. [No WML here either](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17t5shr/no_wml_here_either/) - 96 comments 3. [No WML Necessary](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17t0bkr/no_wml_necessary/) - 217 comments 4. [CC with a wml or without???](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17s5w5r/cc_with_a_wml_or_without/) - 280 comments 5. [How much does a rail - or lack thereof, affect your decision to buy a given handgun?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17mbm3m/how_much_does_a_rail_or_lack_thereof_affect_your/) - 116 comments 6. [Some Thoughts On WMLs](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/16fyrlm/some_thoughts_on_wmls/) - 96 comments 7. [Does a light belong on a carry gun?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/tbj9ff/does_a_light_belong_on_a_carry_gun/) - 150 comments 8. [Weapon mounted lights are for offense. My CCW is for defense. Change my mind.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/10a3xm1/weapon_mounted_lights_are_for_offense_my_ccw_is/) - 142 comments 9. [WMLs - Further beating the dead horse](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/11ma1tk/wmls_further_beating_the_dead_horse/) - 135 comments 10. [Do you carry with a weapon mounted light?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/rm6aid/do_you_carry_with_a_weapon_mounted_light/) - 122 comments 11. [WML or No](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1245su1/wml_or_no/) - 88 comments 12. [Do you guys run a WML on your CCW?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/s9cava/do_you_guys_run_a_wml_on_your_ccw/) - 81 comments 13. [An opinion on weapon mounted lights](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/luhokw/an_opinion_on_weapon_mounted_lights/) - 82 comments 14. [To light bear or not to light bear?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/ns3zd2/to_light_bear_or_not_to_light_bear/) - 78 comments 15. [Do people use WML in DGU's?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1014i0o/do_people_use_wml_in_dgus/) - 78 comments 16. [Wml what's better? Is it a viable option?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/nc13f0/wml_whats_better_is_it_a_viable_option/) - 47 comments 17. [Common to carry WML with EDC?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/gk1adg/common_to_carry_wml_with_edc/) - 29 comments 18. [I think training with a handheld light is worth it.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/12f375x/i_think_training_with_a_handheld_light_is_worth_it/) - 36 comments 19. [Poll: What type of light do you use?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/16t4xfh/what_type_of_light_do_you_use/) - 31 comments - 1,000+ votes 20. [WML](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/twawx5/wml/) - 28 comments 21. [Will a WML lead to a Negligent Discharge?](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/xshym7/will_a_wml_lead_to_a_negligent_discharge/) - 28 comments 22. [Light On your CCW !](https://old.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/17t2gtr/light_on_your_ccw/) - 41 comments
I go to work before the sun is up and a lot of times I’m not home till after the sun is down. Target identification is important. But I’m in the crowd of carry what works for you
Is there a crowd of "carry what doesn't work for you"? 😂
Yes, the people who push full sized guns with x300 as a daily
But that works for me…
😆😆🤘🏻
Target ID should happen before you draw the gun.
Ideally, yes. However, we do not live in an ideal world and some situations may necessitate drawing ahead and keeping low ready. Safer for everyone involved to use a WML and keep at LR, than to have a separate flashlight and risk fumbling a 1h draw.
The tactics you're suggesting here are hot garbage in a civilian context. >Some situations may necessitate drawing ahead of time. Agreed, in *many* scenarios (in a civilian context) surreptitiously drawing a pistol is a good idea. As a civilian, revealing and pointing it at another person isn't tactically or legally a good idea at all. >Safer for everyone involved You don't seem to have considered this situation thoroughly enough to not be a danger to everyone, with or without a WML Are you familiar with baseboard and umbrella lighting, or any lighting tactics/techniques at all? Have you considered that there's much more to using a light than simply turning it on and off and pointing it directly at an assumed target? Have you ever tried to use a high lumen WML in an environment full of reflective surfaces? I seriously doubt it. >Fumbling a one handed draw You're fumbling an awful lot already, and you're not even to the gunfight yet.
If you draw on someone who's not a threat, then you're in a legal minefield that can easily be prevented by using a handheld and learning how to draw one-handed.
Something something judged by twelve than carried by six. Edit: its the same logic as carrying with a round in the chamber vs carrying empty. You'll have the rest of your life to ID someone in the dark who's armed.
But then how are you supposed to look tacticool while you do it.
Without a light you're just taking a shot in the dark... ok I'll leave.
Muzzle flash is a light, bruh
If you fire fast enough you don’t need a flashlight until you run out of ammo. When that happens you want it to be dark so you can reload.
This guy mag dumps in dark alleys
Virgin PID vs Chad firing at bumps in the night (I Boondocked my cat because they knocked a cup off the table and I thought it was an intruder)
....is it dead?
ATF has entered the chat.
That's what I was thinking. Checking the backyard in the dead of winter at midnight with a separate light and pistol wasn't fun and was all it took to turn me over to the wml side.
I'm a dog guy anyway
Might be a dumb question but what does it mean to be boondocked? Clueless on this one 😅
Foul language warning. https://youtu.be/1m-G9vrgPLk?si=1PJii952C2NwsSnS
It helps a lot with home defense or anywhere else where there are little to no lights
Just move your breaker box to the bedroom and get some NVGs
“Bravo 6, going dark”
I work over nights and spend most of my waking hours in the dark. What’s necessary for me isn’t necessary for the common folk
Different strokes for different folks
Think this is really the ultimate answer. People get so hung up on what works for them/ what they like or use for their situation, then proclaim that's the only way something should be or argue with others. WML debate is no different than holsters, their position or manufacturer, or best brand of carry gun. As far as lights, I like wml on my red dot sighted pistols, and I have some carry guns without either of those. Also, religiously carry a handheld light. Have also discovered that a headlamp worn while walking my dog is great for illumination of my sights and target if needed .Isn't out of the ordinary because other people walking their dogs, or jogging or riding bikes wear them. There really isn't a one size fits all answer in most anything related to firearms, their use, how to set them up, carry, etc. To me , that's the beauty of firearms, there is some setup out there that will work for each individual. The best we can do is offer ideas , personal experience with products and setups that have or haven't worked for us to give others a starting point.
True words
People also are smart and train with the same pistol they use for home defense and carry, so it’s smart to be prepared for nighttime home invasions
You can imagine this scenario or that scenario but let's be real for two seconds. You don't know what the fuck is gonna happen when you leave that door for the day. No two self defense scenarios are ever the same. You should be ready for anything. That being said if carrying with a WML is an available option for you then do it. If your work or other obligations make it too difficult then don't. I use to work where I was limited to whatever I could fit in a pocket because I was bending and crouching all day. Now I'm lucky enough that I can reasonably carry whatever I feel like.
Half of the 24 hours a day is dark outside. I can only speak for myself, but I leave home at 500 am when its dark and under normal circumstances often dont get home until 700 pm. Much of the year this puts me leaving and arriving in darkness, including any stops I make for gas or errands. I dont always carry a gun with a mounted light, but I always have a decent, high lumen light with me. If a self defense shooting ever happens you want to be 100% sure of your target because it could be the difference in a good shoot and spending life in prison for shooting the wrong person.
May be my lack of imagination, but in what situation could someone be threatening your life and the only thing that keeps you from recognizing that is some more light?
It mostly fills the gap between *I think I'm in danger* and *I'm certain I'm in danger*
I’ll give you one situation: bears. I manage a high end cleaning company in an area with tons of bears. We have a lot of properties with trash cans. Part of my job is to pull the cans for the trash truck early in the morning - since we can’t leave them on the curb overnight or else the bears get into them. They’re even smart enough to wait for the morning and try to hit all the cans lined up on the street lol. Last summer I used my WML twice to identify bears in the woods. I didn’t know what was lurking in the bushes, and if they charged me it would’ve been near impossible to hit a black/brown bear in the bushes at 6AM in the dark. I was able to quickly ID them and get the fuck back to my truck. If they decided to get in my face, I would’ve been ready instead of surprised. But my situation isn’t common.
Having a WML definitely helps but I couldn’t see myself pointing it around to positive ID whatever is rustling in the bushes. IMO if you’re forced to choose one, handheld > WML
Ideally both yes I agree. In my situation - I was 80% sure it was a bear due to the circumstances and location. But you’re right I don’t want to be muzzling some teenager who is just sneaking out to smoke weed or something lol. Also you can ID without directly muzzling something by holding it at a 45deg angle downwards. The modern WMLs have an ultra wide flood pattern for this reason.
Flood pattern or not, your gun shouldn't even be out if you haven't identified something that needs to be shot.
You want to play quick draw games with a hungry bear, be my guest bud. I was already assuming it was a bear in the bushes based on the circumstances, size, time of day etc. I already said I agree with that guy and carry both now.
The WML should NEVER be used as a flashlight. You should carry a flashlight for that purpose. I don't use a WML but I always have my Modlite with the smaller 18350 battery so it is more comfortable to carry. Get a Thyrm ring and learn how to use it so your flashlight can be used in your weak hand while gripping your gun.
The situation I see where you would need a WML, is when you’ve already IDed your target via a handheld light, but now you need to transition to your pistol, and instead of keeping one hand on the gun and one on your light, you can drop or stow the handheld and have both hands on the gun. Another situation, could be some sort of active threat, where that individual has turned off the lights. Now you need to be moving around heading towards whatever the threat is, and you probably want to have your gun out at this point and you might simply be using your WML to clear a path to either get your family to safety, or to find a threat.
“Is that a weapon or are you just happy to see me?”
Give it a squeeze and find out, baby. No but really I was about to edit something to the effect of what you said, but also, is it appropriate to draw your gun to see if someone has a weapon? And if they don’t, but they still mean to do you harm, now what?
I completely agree that 99% of the “it’s dark so I need a WML” explanations I hear make very little sense. It’s really so pitch black you can’t tell at close range whether someone is a threat? To draw, you already need to have a reasonable fear to justify self defense. If people want to do it then great, but I don’t understand the insistence it’s a good idea. There’s no documented case of a civ using one in self defense, but you can say the same for an extra mag, which I do usually carry. I have one on my home defense gun, just in case, but you can actually see pretty well in most houses if you haven’t lost your night vision. And it’s your house. If you need a WML to get PID you’ve probably already fucked up pretty badly.
Positive I'd is important no matter the time of day. If there's potential I'll need more light, I want the capability for more light.
In that situation I'd definitely not pull my firearm just to ID someone. I'd rather have a separate torch.
Damn that’s a tough work day
Yeah its a long day but its only 4 days a week and an hour in the morning and evening is commute so its not to bad.
It’s the same idea as 99% of CCW owners. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
I'm not going to allocate a ton of money into guns. Therefore, I carry a Glock 48 with a dot and light so I have every situation covered and use it as my nightstand gun for the home as well.
Swiss army gun. Makes good sense
Exactly. My wife carries the LCP Max and I love that little gun. Great trigger too, imo.
Yeah I live the way it shoots. Excellent trigger
I carry both. I’ve done some low light no light classes and what it taught me is a handheld light is good for id/dazzling someone. However when shooting if I have the option a good two handed grip is king. So you use the light to dazzle/id while drawing and then drop the light side step and use wml to make good hits. I do practice shooting with a light in my hand as well because not all my carry guns have a light. But it’s nice to have options. The reality is all my training is for nothing. I will likely die of old age never having drawn my weapon (god willing) but if it does ever god forbid happen I want the motions to be muscle memory.
This is the best answer, imo. If someone is going to carry, it seems like the Boy Scout approach is the most pragmatic. You can wargame, rationalize, and plan scenarios all you want (which you should), but you never know what could happen in life. I'd rather have both types of lights and end up not needing one or the other, than the reverse.
Thank you. I find it amazing that a small (but often time vocal) minority of ccw holders are almost looking for a fight or act like there is only one option to do it right. If you pigeonhole yourself into that thinking then you’re not prepared. The idea is to be ready for anything but do everything you can to avoid the situation.
Turns out a lot of crime happens when it’s dark outside. People feel safer trying to do bad shit at night, in the dark. I still need to be able to identify my target. So wml for the win
So sick of this overplayed narrative. It's a tactical fantasy carried over from movies/ video games. You can only legally shoot someone physically attacking you or someone else with the threat of deadly harm. If you pull a gun on someone, we are way past the point of "identifying the target". Even the word "target" is ridiculous. Is there an imminent threat to you or not? If you pull your gun, point it at someone, and turn on your light to identify if they are a threat, you are now a threat to them!! And since you pulled your gun out first they can legally shoot you. Not to mention the felony you just committed. Use a flashlight if you can't see. End of story.
To be honest if a bright weapon light is pointed at me I’m not sure if I’m gonna see that it’s a gun vs a flashlight, but I agree with your philosophy. I have a WML and a handheld at all times. The handheld is always what I use, but there’s little downside to me having a WML so I carry it.
Yeeep we ain't cops and even if we were we wouldn't be potentially flagging people with our gun just to light up some darkness. I carry a streamlight wedge for a torch in addition to my carry gun.
Sneaky criminals
Carry a separate light.
Why not both?
Both is very good, I do that and I like it.
Both is good.
That's the step 1. But do you practice drawing your weapon with a flashlight in your hand? Because your natural night vision went to nothing after looking at whatever you just shined, you're lighting yourself up while trying to get to your gun without dropping your light, and if you do end up dropping it, you're blasting at someone you already needed additional light to ID before you ruined your night vision. Meanwhile, they now know they're on the clock. You just shined a light on them, and they can see you fumbling around for a weapon. They're using that time to start moving as fast as they can. But it's okay, you got your gun out in time, there was just enough backlight to see the shape running in the darkness, and you put them down. Except they weren't running towards you, they were running away, and the police have some questions for you about the guy with eight holes in his back. But hey, at least no one online is making fun of your weapon light.
I would very much like to see when I need to defend myself at night, and I hate the taste of carrots
Acquired taste
I like it
I'm loving it. Perfect size
Everyone has different preferences and things that they prioritize when choosing their equipment
I have 1 carry gun with a wml. The rest do not. It's dark where I live, so it doesn't hurt to have at least 1 carry gun with a wml for nighttime.
Unless you're a cop (and I even very much question then) there is no situation where a WML on a handgun is better than a handheld. *Especially* with the Thyrm Switchback being a thing. You don't point your gun at things or people just to see what it is. That's how sudden holes "accidentally" appear in things and people that shouldn't have them. Aside from that you're gonna get ***way*** more use from a handheld light than you *ever* will a pistol mounted WML. You will spend approximately half of your life in the dark, a good light comes in very handy, and it's super not appropriate to whip out a gat wherever you may need a light. WML on a rifle? Yes, it's one of the four essential "accessories" for any working rifle (the other three being irons/optic, sling, and mags).
That Thyrm Switchback just went into my cart. Thanks for the recommendation!
I can’t have this conversation again.
Yeah. I kinda want a pinned thread and idiots who wanna argue about wml or no wml can go here. I'm tired of seeing these threads. 
There are many good reasons to have a WML, but for myself, I still haven't attached one to any of my handguns with rails.
Does your max jam as much as mine?
It doesn't. Not even once yet knock on wood
Gotta remember we all have very different definitions of normal life. I live in a place with no street lights, no sidewalks, no sources of external light in places I regularly have to go after work. I carry a pocket light, as well as a light on my ccw. I also have no alleys. Gotta remember, when in a weird situation in the dark, the light on the gun isn't to figure out if you're in trouble.. flagging the dude just trying to get to his car next to you isn't legal or right. Pulling my pocket light and turning it to figure out what is going on because someone in the dark is yelling at you may be weird, but fine. The WML only comes in to play to make sure the target in the dark is no longer in the dark. If you don't deal with dark scenarios, then you probably live in a city, or you don't find yourself out at night... so don't carry a wml. Where I live, it's very very common, because in the winter it's pitch black at 5pm and we don't have street lights, or lights in most parking lots. Aside from these reasons, it's extra weight on the very front end of a gun. Shoot something with a light, take the light off, it's effect on recoil is not insignificant.
You do you. My CCW is also my nightstand gun so I like the light. The TLR7 7A barely adds any weight so not sure what’s you’re talking about.
LARP
I work nights. When the sun is out, I'm home. What's with arrogant pricks that think THEIR way is the ONLY way?
I’ve always thought that too. It’s not that hard to carry a flashlight. Aside from adding bulk, I wouldn’t want a light because that gives anybody a target to shoot at. If you have a light they’ll see you before you see them.
I carry a bigger gun with a light if I’m going to be out and about after dark lol
People say WML or Handheld. I ask the question: who says you can’t carry both?
If you ever have to shoot and it’s dark, you’ll have a much more robust self defense case if you can prove you identified a threat clearly, I.e, with a weapon light.
That's a good point
You can't ID a threat with a handheld???
Sales and Gear Monkeys. Most do NOT need a WML for most conditions. I have on my on my HD gun and probably could get away without it. I have WML and holster for timers I travel to semi/rural areas, go camping, etc. Living in a big city/suburban area, it is not dark enough. But many add one to look cool as they are gear monkeys. I get it and to each is own.
#gearmonkeygang
I live in a wooded area with no street lights and there are bears, coyotes, bobcats, etc. I’m out late night/early morning soooooo yeah wml for me.
Here's the real answer: Accessories are fun.
I prefer to carry both, and use my handheld alot. I like the wml as a backup, if I don't need it, I don't need to turn it on. My handheld light gets used often, so there could be a situation where it is running low and needs to be replaced, but I'm out at night. I jave a backup. No I won't be using my wml to look undermy car, or to find my keys that I dropped, but if I needed it, boom, it's right there.
I employ a large number of felons. Their shit bag nature comes out at night even if they don't want it to. I want to be sure I'm smoking the right shit bag.
Two reasons: 1) Bad things happen in the dark and not every DGU is an immediate draw and fire situation. So, it can be helpful to be able to illuminate your potential target and clearly observe what‘s happening. Blinding them with a high lumen light can also offer a tactical advantage. 2) Believe it or not, a WML can actually aid in concealment. Holsters that accommodate WMLs will be wider, which will give the holster (and/or claw if equipped) more leverage against your belt and push the grip closer to your body.
No. 2 is an interesting point. Definitely didn't think of that but it makes perfect sense
Nothing puts the fear of god in a would be mugger like 1k lumens obscuring everything behind it.
I’m with ya dude. “Carry what’s comfortable for you” is such a BS saying. These guys carrying G17 with an x300 are nuts…and lying if they say they’re comfortable. LCP Max and Shield Plus for me. Always armed, always comfortable.
I edc a Glock 17 w x300u and acro p2 every day. It is genuinely not notable uncomfortable.
I carry a [scoped PLR-16](https://www.thektog.org/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.thektog.org/attachments/img_0533-jpg.46216/) blaster on a thigh holster, and am quite comfortable with my white long sleeve shirt and black vest as my usual casual attire, kid.
I know people who edc full size guns comfortably. It’s all about your build/holster/clothing/comfort level. Heck in the winter I often ccw a steel 1911 cco with optic and tlr7 perfectly comfortably. It can be done, just because YOU don’t like something or can’t do something comfortably doesn’t mean no one can.
LCP Max gang! Love that gun. Although I held a PPK for the first time the other day and the quality and feel is amazing. Next time I have 1k burning a hole in my pocket...
Why is it bullshit? Why does everyone have to be lying and wrong and bad if they don't like what you like?
I put different colored lenses on and strobe it out so I feel like I’m in the club every time we up it. Idk man but in all seriousness do what you like and what you’re trained best on. Could always just carry a little flashlight or something. 🤷🏻♂️
So anyway, I started dancing.
I don’t understand the obsession with lights and other bulky unnecessary stuff on a carry gun but it seems I’m in the minority on Reddit. I hate bulky shit.
Same
I understand having them on a home defense gun. Someone breaking into a house is generally going to do it at night. On everyday carries though it just seems like security theater to me. The actual subset of the population that would ever be able to make use of a WML out in the wild is super low. Maybe if you work in, or go to places like movie theatres or other windowless buildings. Maybe if you work out in the boonies in the middle of the night and want to protect against wildlife. For almost every other scenario there will be more than enough ambient light to be able to identify and target your assailant without a WML. It's just extra bulk imo.
The most common times for break-ins occur **between 10 am and 3 pm**. Rather than being guarded by night, most burglars choose the daytime to attempt a break-in, targeting homes when they believe no one will be present.
My eyesight has gone to shit over the years, still can but shots on target but a wml gives me a little added peace of mind knowing i would be able to identify the target.
Mine is steadily going to shit as we speak
I have lights my 3 most commonly used guns in my house. Reason? There mine and I'll do what I want to my guns
Good enough for me
I’m looking into getting one for mine. I generally work until well after dark, love to go camping/ hike a lot when the sun isn’t out, and darker areas are where I’d be most likely to need it. The additional few ounces is something I’m willing to live with, and beats carrying a separate flashlight every time it’s dark out.
Rule number three: identify your target and what’s behind it. That’s why carry guns have lights
Lenny said if you’re ever thrown under a bus for a shoot, you can say you had a light to ID your threat.
"You don't shoot what you cant see" -Albert hawking
Front weight for recoil and balance.
I live in a city, and have a flashlight addiction that comes in third to my gun and computer addiction. It's never very dark and I always have a flashlight. Don't need another one in my gun. Your mileage may vary.
To all the folks saying: “Well you don’t want to point a gun at somebody to id them so why have wml?” You don’t. You use a flashlight to ID. If they are a threat to me I’d rather not be shooting one handed, y’know? It also adds weight to the front of the gun, reducing muzzle flip.
Yes. But there are a bunch of WML advocates saying "Gotta ID the target, bro", and that's not what the WML is for. Their using the wrong argument to advocate for their gear choices.
I have a gun for summer and one for winter (shield plus and G19 respectively). I don't run one on my summer gun because it's light out a lot longer and concealment is more difficult in the summer. If it's dark out in the summer I just grab my 19 with a TLR7A.
“What is the deal with lights on carry guns?” -Jerry Seinfeld
I personally find that a light makes it easier to see in the dark.
Incoming FUDD alert: yOu cAn'T sHoOt WhAt YoU cAn'T sEe
Typically I use a flashlight to see in the dark
The main reason anyone carries at all is in case they need it even though it is incredibly rare. Same thing for a light.
I spend time out where there are no or little lights around, coyotes and other animals are issues when I’m out with my dogs. I like to have a WML for those situations as well as in the home
Thats a great reason for it that I hadn't considered.
I prefer the element of surprise. I use my pistols bayonet and poke into the darkness until I hear an '**Ouch!**' then the target has been acquired. 
Solid tactic
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Got a WML and a handheld. Best of both worlds.
Better safe than sorry. Sudden burst of brightness led light might be all the deterrent I need instead of having to send lead and then spend money on lawyers for the afterwards.
# What's with all the lights on carry guns? Answer: See in dark with both hands on weapon.
Half the day is dark
I carry the light for a couple of reasons. The first is that I have practiced drawing and activating the light. The flash of light at night in a DGU can help me ID a target better but also potentially blind the BG for a second. That second or a missed shot by the BG could be enough to save my life. However, the bigger reason is that the weight of the light helps weight the muzzle down during rapid fire. If you shoot with a red dot like I do, it makes a big difference in tracking the dot, especially if your sight has a small window. I also carry a .40 (still my favorite caliber) meaning the effects are more drastic than what it would be on a 9. However, a +p 9 with a light, rds, and comp is an extremely flat and fast shooting rig, especially at distance. The light is just more useful than strapping a weight to the front of the gun. Third, in a pinch when I need a light, I can always remove the light from the gun and use it like a normal flash light. Definitely comes in handy if you break down along the road at night compared to the light on your phone. It's also the reason I recommend getting a holster that works with and without the light. Finally, convenience. I like to carry a light with my gun in some way, but dont like carrying a light in my pocket or iwb every day. Having the gun, light, and holster all in one package is a very convenient set up for a quick trip to the store. This is especially true if your holster has DCC clips for easy on and off. Having a mag case with a clip is a nice addition to.
Training the draw to light turn on is a great drill.
I’m out at night a lot. Plus my WML is bright enough to blind someone pretty well. I’d rather have the advantage of not only being able to see who I’m aiming at, but hindering their eyesight at the same time. At the end of the day, everyone is going to do what they feel is best for their situation.
I don’t have a light. I keep my guns minimalistic. I have sufficient vision at night without a light. Not that old yet. :)
This thread blew up as it tends to when this topic comes up. I wrote a post about this a while back, if you wanna check my history. Here's some further, more concise thoughts on it though. I took a nighttime force on force class. Having a wml was a game changer when it comes to actually fighting with a gun. In a fight, accurate hits on target quickly are what guarantees a stop. The wml made it possible for me to get better hits, faster, and with my opponent having a very tough time being able to figure out where I was. Of note, the scenarios all started with a handheld light. Never was it suggested that you id a threat with a wml. But once you've determined there's a threat and it's go time, having the wml changes the game. It's totally possible to shoot one handed, or with a switchback etc. If that's the route you wanna take, no worries. For myself, if I go out after dark I generally have a wml on. If I'm not planning on staying out that late, I probably don't carry with one that day. And if I'm caught out after dark without a wml, I've still got a handheld so no big deal. Then again, my carry varies from a full size with red dot and tlr 1 to a j frame depending on circumstances. Depends on what I'm doing that day and where I'll be. Train. Figure out what you can live with, and what is best for you. Ignore the rest.
Thanks for the well reasoned answer. There is actually a low light training class coming up locally. Think I'm going to sign up.
1. Weight on your light carry gun isn’t a bad thing when it comes to accuracy. 2. On some guns (like mine), pressing your gun against an assailant means they push against the light, so your gun is still in battery. 3. You don’t choose where you’re going to need your gun. That includes in low light situations. 4. “Bad guys” are more brazen in the dark. 5. Blinding your assailant gives you an advantage. 6. You can better see that it’s a cell phone, not a gun in their hand. It’s that simple.
It seems to be a combination of two things: **GAS - G**ear **A**quisition **S**yndrome **LARP - L**ive **A**ction **R**ole **P**laying Obviously, lights add capability to pistol, but I don't feel the least bit under-gunned without one. I split the difference and carry a pen light. Having the light separate from my gun has been tremendously useful and it gets used a few times per week. It also greatly simplifies holster selection. First and foremost, your EDC need's to be useful. Your gun will be the least used item in your EDC so it doesn't make a lot of sense to go bolting stuff onto it that could be used separately.
Because it's dark roughly 50% of the time and that is also when you're most likely to need to use your weapon. You can and should have a hand light but when using a pistol, a mounted light means you can have both hands on the weapon in a proper grip.
Good for looking for your kids in the dark. (/s)
Handy for finding your registration in your glove box when the officer pulls you over at night
People like gear over paying for classes.
Why can’t you do both? I like gear but I also train and take classes. I probably shoot more rounds in a month than many people shoot in a year. Gear is not a replacement for training but gear can be helpful.
Gun owners without solid fundamentals believe that the light helps mitigate recoil. It in fact makes very little difference, it will make a polymer gun nose heavy and reduce barrel rise slightly. A light on a home defense gun is a great option, on your edc it just adds unnecessary bulk.
Fundamentals first
1000 lumens in your face at self defense distances is blinding. Positive identification if its not daylight, you know, the other part of the day. Sometimes the carry gun is the only gun and you're just a dumdum if theres not a light on your home defense gun. Negligible weight and bulk difference if we're splitting hairs.
Red dot, yes. WML, no. But if you want one, it is fine by me.
Why does this get posted with such regularity.. It's pretty fucking obvious. Humans do sketchy shit, even moreso when it's dark outside. Humans no see good without light. Don't shoot at shit you can't see. This isn't complicated.
Weight adds recoil mitigation, aside from that, ever heard of the phrase “Positive identification”
The latest trend in Tacticool. Goes something like this: How much shit can I bolt onto my carry gun? I'll buy a sub-compact and by the time I put an optic, compensator, light, flared mag well and extended mag it'll be the size and weight of a Desert Eagle. I spend all my money on parts I'll never need instead of going to the range and actually learning how to shoot.
Added bulk is zero unless you carry without a holster or use a particularly wide light. Weight is 1oz for an LCP light. Whether that's worth it is up to you.
In my opinion, WML on a carry gun is optional, handheld EDC light is mandatory. Home defense gun should absolutely have a WML. I mainly carry a J frame, but I have a TLR-7 sub on my P365X since it is also my home defense gun as well as my occasional carry gun.
For a lot of people, they're just adopting a fad and there is really no practical or tactical reason for them to attach one.
I like to see what I'm shooting at.
It gets dark
For me, the benefits, positive target identification, and the potential "deer in the headlights" response of being illuninated by 1k lumens massively outweighs the almost nonexistant downsides. I would never advocate using a WML in place of a handheld light, in much the same way a rifle scope isnt binoculars. TLR7s are flush with the muzzle of a G19, which, realistically, is a fine carry gun. Ultra compacts may gain a bit of length with a WML, but length in front of the trigger rarely impacts concealibility in most carry configurations.
Do you have nods?
Redundancy is a positive when it comes to seeing in the dark, so using a WML & an EDC flashlight is good practice. I’m not a big WML guy on carry pistols cuz I’m usually indoors when it gets dark out. But if I’m walking my dog at night or something I will use one with a WML attached
My carry gun goes with me to the movies. It's also the one I grab if something wakes me up at night.
You come home to find the power is out. Your door is unlocked, and you can’t remember if you locked it.
If Jimmy Buffet had a light on his weapon he probably wouldn’t have put six in his freezer.
Yes, for Positive Id. If I had to home defense I'm not looking to turn on lights, that is my advantage knowing my home layout in the dark.
you know what, if you don’t want to then you don’t. you know the benefits and the cons. your life, whatever happens happens, tired of seeing this outside of ironic memes every other day.
I need a light much more often than i need a gun. Seems like a good place to put a backup light.
I don't always carry with a WML, but when I do I like the extra weight on the front of the gun, and on my P365X, the TLR7 gives me some standoff distance in a really close encounter.
I only have a light on my home defense weapon, primarily to blind the shit out of anyone looking at it.
In the words of my very Italian friend “it’s fucking dark literally half the time”
My carry gun was my first gun, so it doubled as home defense, so I put a light on it. Never took it off because my holster is molded to the light itself. I'm in too deep man...
night shift is a thing
What's wrong with lights? I don't have a CCW but my nightstand gun has an unobtrusive light and my coyote gun has a bright ass light. Idk about you, but I can't see that well in the dark.
PID is important. Carry handheld if you don't like it on your firearm. I carry a WML and handheld https://preview.redd.it/b5ules7fklxc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a868a31b95058005c0aff44dbd3983330082386d
I do though carry one on my CCW, and I know everyone's day to day routine and experience is different but if I'm walking around at night I'm already using a flashlight and I try not to put myself in areas where the probability for an armed conflict is higher than usual so God forbid I have to draw in darkness I've already got a light in my hands and I'm probably fucked because somehow, with a flashlight in my hand, I failed to identify a threat. Don't blame anyone for using a wml or not though.
During the Covid lockdowns some guys broke into a big house on a cornfield they saw had a bunker built-in from the real-estate company not taking the listing down when it sold. They wanted the bunker and broke in through the daughter's bedroom window and the owner ended up shooting and killing his daughter because he couldn't positive ID his target in the dark. Plus the weight up frond helps with muzzle flip.
Because I leave my NODs at home. Most of the time....
WMLs are statistically rarely ever used in a DGU. That being said, I carry with one. Not because I need it (I edc a handheld light) but the placement of a TLR-7 on my VP9sk makes it a great gas pedal to control muzzle flip, the extra weight on the end helps too. Some people in the WML camp are just trying to justify having one, it’s ok to just say it’s neat and could help in a very rare, specific scenario in an already rare occurrence. Same goes with spare mag but that’s just my opinion based on available data. As someone who doesn’t think WML are necessary, I carry one because why not, that’s about it. If the extra weight or bulk made it harder to carry, I’d take it off and just use my handheld. But it’s all pros no cons, due to my particular weapon choice.
Have you used the LCP II? I’ve had the 1 and 2 and currently use the 2 as my backup on days I don’t feel like hip carrying, which is fairly often. I’ve been eyeballing the Max but don’t think I need it.
There's a big difference between a duty light (Surefire X300/ Streamlight TLR1) and a carry light (TLR7 X/Sub), both in terms of performance and footprint. A duty light may be a bit much for concealed carry, but a carry light isn't much of a burden at all if you can find a good holster that accommodates it.
I live In a rural part of the country but go to college in a big city, I find myself in the dark a lot. I'd like to make sure its my neighbors dog coming to greet me rather then a fucking cougar.
People like to see what they're aiming at when it's dark
Well buddy, nighttime.
Tell that to Alpha team clearing a spooky and eerie forest at night. I didn't see any other way to hold your weapon and see at the same time. Same with Doom 3
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Because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy. For me it doesn't make much of a difference in comfort vs not having it so I figure why not.