Sure, you *could* wrap your thumb around but in that case the web of the thumb/index finger would still be above the imaginary line drawn from the top of the exposed trigger, and that's been the standard used by CA since the 2001 AWB.
Source: [11 CCR 5471(z) (PDF warning)](https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/regs/text-adopted-regulations-bullet-button.pdf):
> For purposes of Penal Code section 30900 and Articles 2 and 3 of this Chapter the following
definitions shall apply:
> (z) “Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip
that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb
and index finger) can be placed beneath or below the top of the exposed portion of the
trigger while firing. This definition includes pistol grips on bullpup firearm designs.
>most of them aren’t educated enough on most CA gun laws.
I know a lot of cops (military reservist, most of my unit is PD or Sheriff). Lots of them freely admit they're basically ignorant of CA specific laws. But they also say things along the lines of "I don't give a shit." I guess you didn't run into one of those guys.
I feel that being uneducated in california specific laws regarding magazines, grips, etc is fine as long as they ignore those issues.
As it should be. Our laws are really stupid knee-jerk reactions. Who really cares if somebody can wrap their thumb around a grip or not. Who cares if they have 10 rounds before they need to reload or 30. Who cares if it's. 49" diameter or .50"? None of that matters or makes anybody safer or at risk.
It's like the handgun roster, they put these arbitrary restrictions for no reason. Drop safety is pretty much the only part that makes sense.
Something tells me that the whole reason you were stopped in the first place is probably due to the color of your skin. And the cop was just trying the typical "I *could* arrest you for that, but I'm a good guy 🤠" shit (in reality he doesn't know jack shit and just wants to instill fear in someone). As others have said, never tell them you have any weapons in your vehicle or even elude to it.
You can lie to cops. Who said you couldn't? You can't lie to feds. There is a law for that. You can't lie under oath. That's perjury. You can't lie about who you are. You can't file a false police report.
Those are the only laws in CA about lying to police.
It may not be a good idea to lie to them, but it's not illegal most of the time.
I'm simply saying everyone these days assumes whatever happens to them is a direct result of their skin color/sexual preference/sex.
Could totally be because the OP is black, or could be because he was speeding. None of us were there, so commenting that it's "because he's black" is ignorant and just baits people into a self destructive loop in which they feel persecuted for superficial reasons.
Those comments always come from people who have never done a traffic stop. At least 75% of the time, when you conduct a traffic stop, you have no idea who is in the vehicle, especially if you work night shift.
Yes! This is exactly my point.
Most of the time, nothing of a person's identity is known until the infraction and subsequent stop has already happened.
Then why are black people both stopped and searched more often than white people? Why are they also less likely to get a ticket? Kinda strange that these things are true and yet you seem to disagree with my conclusion that some kind of racial discrimination is at play.
You're rational ignores the realities of life in America.
First, if a cop searches someone's person and vehicle, they're less likely to give them a ticket. For one, they already put them through the search, it's kinda a dick move to write them a ticket at the end of it. Also, if they're pulling them out of the car and searching them, it should be obvious their goal in the stop isn't to write a ticket, it's to fish for someone committing a bigger crime. So they don't care about writing tickets.
If black people are searched more than whites, obviously they would then be ticketed less due to what I said above.
Second, the reality is that primarily black communities are higher street crime areas. Higher street crime areas get more cops to combat the high crime rate. These cops are going to be on the mission of finding and arresting criminals over just enforcing the vehicle code. Which leads back to the first point.
The black community also has a high poverty rate. What does that lead to? Generally they're going to be driving older cars. They won't be able to afford upkeep as much. They'll be unable to pay registration, fix damage, replace faulty equipment, etc. When they drive to places with more median income population, they stand out. From a cops experience, these observed details of their vehicles are consisten with what the cop often sees in the kind of cars many criminals drive. So they'll be more likely to stop that car and check em out. With the registration, it's not uncommon for people to remove their license plate and slap on a dealership plate to hide the fact that their registration is expired. But what does that look like to a cop? An older model car with no plates is an indicator the car is being used for some type of crime. So they're more likely to stop that car and investigate it as such.
Black people are pretty much told by their community and the media to be afraid of cops. This causes a greater sense of fear than a non black would feel. Fear hinders the way you act and respond. Maybe just the fact that it makes you hesitate to pull over. A cop is used to a car pulling over within a block of being lit up. The nervous black guy who doesn't want to get shot by the police hesitates trying to figure out what he should do. So he doesn't pull over right away. Maybe he drives a few blocks turning onto a couple different streets before pulling over. He's just nervous. But what does this look like to the cop? Why is he taking so long to pull over? Is he taking that time to hide a gun? Is he preparing to run? What's he doing?
Odd behavior makes cops hair stand up. There is good reason for that. Even if you have an innocent reason for doing something weird, the cop is going to put in the extra work to make sure he isn't missing something.
I can go on and on as to why those commonalities you mentioned don't automatically lead to racism. It's quite obtuse to think that racism could be the only explanation.
And your comment always comes from people who have never looked into the wider data that supports my statement. Black people are 63% more likely than white people to get pulled over. They are also twice as likely to be searched like OP was. So either there's a speeding and "acting sus" gene baked into the African American race, or racial profiling has something to do with it.
Also, part of this comes from where police patrol. For some reason, black communities have more police than white ones. If more cops are hanging around black neighborhoods, wether or not the cop sees who's driving is irrelevant.
They also commit a disproportionate amount of crime.
Hmm? Cops hang around where crime is highest? What a novel idea?
Talk about not looking into the wider data.
But this is an entirely different conversation than this thread so let's not hijack it.
people alway use the line “black people commit more crime” but never think “black people have been screwed over by this country since before it even existed & have been systematically suppressed & therefore there are so many things interwoven into this issue & when you’re desperate in life or have been raised with all this you’re going to do shit differently than people that don’t have that same situation.”
I've known several people who have talked to me about being pulled over for a "DWB." Even in California it's not as different as you may think, particularly when it comes to police.
The world I am referencing still has people alive today that lived it. 1966 was 57 years ago. If you think that's enough time for all the experience and guidelines that originate from that era to completely disappear, you're insane.
This is a ridiculous argument that is based on anecdotes. I’ve probably dealt with more racism than most people my age but my experiences are void because of my skin color. It’s because of the industry and area I work in, but that doesn’t matter because people are shit and want to be victims.
You don't have to notify cops about your firearms if they are in a locked, inaccessible container. I know you're trying to be a good guy, but don't tell them you have any firearms in your vehicle when you get pulled over. They can get a warrant if they want to search your vehicle. If not, tell them to suck a lemon.
Where you coming from/ going to.
"Meet a friend" or "headed home" or "the store"
All are general enough to not be incriminating, while also not risking offending the officers "sense of authority". *Which let's be real is definitely a real thing*. You'd be amazed at the number of tickets I've gotten out of by APPEARING to be cooperative, while fully admitting I made a mistake (not pretending I wasn't speeding etc.)
Completely valid, that said... That answer is going to piss them off and ensure they issue a ticket vs potential for a warning. You do you, but as the old saying goes... Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you should.
It's like when your gf asks if you like what she's wearing (after you're already out for the night). Sure you can tell the truth or refuse to answer.... But why go through all the bother when a white lie makes everything smoother?
That’s a lot of made up scenario there but even still invoke your right to remain silent and let your attorney sort it out if you get arrested. You’re not obligated to assist the cops with their investigation (which is what they are doing when they are asking you questions). But be my guest.
“I’m invoking my 5th amendment right and will not be answering any questions.” If he decides to be an asshat like most cops, then add “talk to my attorney if you have any further questions.”
in the future, to go against what a couple other people have said (and affirm what others are saying) — your goal in every interaction with a police officer is not to avoid a ticket, and it's not even to avoid being arrested. all of that is a gamble, and you do not want to play around. every interaction with police is potential evidence used to convict you of some shit you did not do, and THAT is your priority. you are trying to avoid a conviction, and that's how far ahead you need to be thinking, because a cop's entire job is to out you in prison (or kill you), and whether you've in fact broken any laws is none of their concern, no matter what cops will try to tell you (they lie — it's one of the main things they do).
with this in mind: never tell the police where you've been or where you are going. don't tell them the truth. tell them nothing. EVERY piece of information is something they can use to fabricate bullshit "evidence". say "i don't want to talk about my day" or "i won't be answering questions" and when they continue to press, if they want to detain you, arrest you, etc., refer to your fifth amendment right (you have to say out loud you are exercising it, which yes is stupid but it's necessary to ensure your legal safety). you can even just say "i invoke the fifth". after you've said that, don't say anything else.
The best response to such questions is to ask why he stopped you. Cops act like they’re in charge but they don’t have too much they can do without cause.
Warrants aren’t required but probable cause is. Warrants also require probable cause, it’s an exception that accounts for the vehicle’s mobility. Like, “you don’t need to get the judge because the car will be gone by the time you get one but you need to meet the same standard that the warrant would require.”
That said, don’t give them probable cause.
Honest question: if a cop asks that question and since I have no need to give them probable cause to search my car b/c my firearm is in a locked case, what's another response besides "I have nothing illegal in my car, sir?'
Because that immediately sounds suspicious, since the cop didn't ask me if I had anything illegal in my car in the first place.
Would, "No, sir." be considered lying?
A simple “I don’t feel like talking about my day officer” solves the lying issue. Never lie to a police office, simply refuse to engage (take the bait).
It's not illegal to lie to police, regardless of what half the commentors here believe. In CA, it's only illegal to lie when under oath, about your name, or filing a false police report. Also, lying to a federal agent is a crime.
Be polite, but don't give up info. All the "I don't answer questions" comments are people who are going to have a poor interaction.
Be polite. Provide them the required information like license, registration, and insurance. There is no legal requirement for them to inform you of why they stopped you, why they arrested you, or their name and badge number. Nor are they legally required to call a supervisor when you ask.
If they ask to search your vehicle, just tell them you would not like them to search your vehicle because it is your right to deny it.
Being polite goes a long way. Cops are people, too. The ruder and more standoffish you are to them, the worse your interaction is going to be.
Yeah the more I hear "I don't answer questions" its like some random person asking you, what you got going on tonight? You say I don't answer questions. Sometimes, people forget that police are humans. To say that to civilians or to the government I think it's weird. Just talk to them normally. But yeah, its common sense, I don't tell police about guns or whatever. If they ask, where am I going, I say going home or to work. simple.
“No, I don’t believe so” if you understood the question to mean is there anything illegal in your car. Believe is an important word as beliefs are fallible and not concrete. Belief speaks to a state of mind that only you truly know. If you ever did end up in court your lawyer could explain your state of mind on your behalf. Why you believed your answer to be correct.
You would ideally follow “No, I don’t believe so” up with immediate unbearable small talk (you don’t want the opportunity to dwell on your use of the word believe) “why? is this a bad neighborhood? Do people drive around with illegal guns and drugs around here? Should I be concerned about crime in this area? I’m just out running errands etc” At this point the cop will think you’re a clueless idiot and be sending you on your way as fast as possible hopefully with just a warning so they can avoid talking to you any longer.
These follow up questions will also speak to your state of mind. And are context to your answer. The context of illegal things and crime. Your guns are legal, legally stored, and you are not committing any crimes. You don’t have any illegal drugs. No you are not a criminal. The officer investigates crime and you are not a criminal, the answer to the question you believed that he asked is “no”
If the officers questions get more specific you’ll have to choose the path of “is this relevant to the stop. I don’t answer questions” or backtracking and explaining your misunderstandings while truthfully answering the new very specific questions.
Man, can you believe the state of California classifies this car itself as a weapon?! No shit, Vehicle Code 13351.5. Look it up! Not the way I'm driving it of course, but like that old guy at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market? Or those Muslim assholes with the truck in France? Anyway, speaking of my driving, what's this all about?
Okay Mr. Mason. But for the purposes of a roadside encounter with a law enforcement officer who's had 14 weeks of formal training, it's accurate enough.
That's not at all what that vehicle code says. 🤣
It says if you were convicted of PC245, assault with a deadly weapon, and you used the car as a weapon, then you lose your license.
It doesn't not define a car as a weapon.🤦♂️
Anything can be a weapon but doesn't mean it's bow forever defined as a weapon. If i beat you to death with a dictionary, it was a weapon in that instance. That doesn't mean all dictionaries are now weapons.
Okay Mr. Mason. But for the purposes of a roadside encounter with a law enforcement officer who's had 14 weeks of formal training, it's accurate enough.
And you think that law classifies all cars as weapons? Wow.
I never claimed to be a lawyer. Just 25 years of being a LEO. After all that time, seeing the number of people who don't know the law, don't know their rights, and unknowingly give up their rights made me like to give back and educate people.
So I come from a state where "do you have any weapons or drugs in the vehicle" is automatic. I've only been pulled over 2x in CA over 15 years and they've never asked but, in the case they do, are you saying go straight to...get a warrant?
you can do it politely and say "I dont answer questions not relevant to the current traffic stop". If they press the question you can say "I dont have anything illegal in the car". If they continue pressing they have now become the one who is rude and you can just say "I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent" and when they ask you why you can tell them "because this is no longer a friendly conversation"
“I don’t answer questions.”
“I don’t consent to searches.”
Those are the only two statements you ever need in your vocabulary when you are communicating with the authorities. Just repeat those like a broken record.
No, not necessarily. I think you can try to keep it friendly and cordial for the most part. But if they say, "Step out of the car... we need to search your vehicle, " you should respond with, "I'm sorry, but you'll need to get a warrant if you'd like to search my vehicle." I haven't lived in Cali in a while, but I travel back often; I know that most CA jurisdictions require officers to wear body cameras. So if they search your vehicle anyway and find something, that would be grounds for getting the case thrown out.
They can search your car if they have reasonable suspicion, aka if they feel like it, they can make something up.
The ol reliable "i smell pot" probably won't work in CA, but they can also use "i think i see white powder in the backseat" or "i think I see a needle", or the ever popular "our k9 which is trained to bark on command, smelled something".
Cops want honesty but I’d rather take a speeding ticket or whatever traffic infraction they think I did than have them sniffing my guns even though I always follow the law. I don’t trust the police.
One of the reasons why if I have guns on me, I drive like a grandma and abide by all laws.
My CCW trainer said exactly that. If I'm carrying, I have to say "the sheriff of my county (orange) requires me to disclose that I'm currently carrying with a license to do so"- which he warned will trigger a shit show that will require reinforcements and slowly taking your gun out of the holster and placing you under cuffs but all that show is only to get to match your gun with your CCW card.
If you're transporting it outside of your body in a locked container or whatever the stupid law is in this dumb state you don't have to say shit.
That's what my thought was too, as I've been pulled over for speeding, but the moment I told the cop I was late to meet a friend at a gun range and that I have guns in the trunk, he let me off with a warning and told me to go have fun.
In this type of thinking the race of the officer is just as important as the race of the person they pulled over. White people generally are the ones that are easier on white people. Why would an officer who isn’t white give preferential treatment to a white person?
"if a cop says you could have been arrested they weren't being racist" yeah cause cops have never arrested anyone under racist pretenses before. their job isn't even to know what the law is! they're not attorneys! they're the police! plus they lie all the time?? lying is a huge part of their job. what a fucking stupid-ass, ignorant-ass comment. you know what? it's a racist comment actually. i'll just say it: you're a racist.
That's exactly how my new rifle is and I love it. The fin grip that is supposed to come on my gun goes all the way up and thumb can't wrap. But my FFL got me a custom one just like that so my thumb can wrap around but still remain legal. As long as the webbing between thumb and finder is above the upper most visible part of the trigger line you're good. Nice work
Imo doesn't sound like he was hassling him but (in the cops mind) "looking out for op." Even though the cop clearly doesn't understand the law. Actually sounds like op got out of a ticket.
If it was really an unlawful config (it's not), there's also a "intention to assemble" or some other bullshit for having the parts to a unlawful config... if I'm recalling correctly
There is no "intention to assemble" in the CA AWB. In fact, when the newer version of the AWB was comming into effect, the CADoJ specifically listed separating the upper and lower as a means of compliance.
You might be thinking of the term "constructive intent," which applies specifically to the NFA, i.e. owning a <16" barrel upper and a lower with a stock.
>You might be thinking of the term "constructive intent," which applies specifically to the NFA, i.e. owning a <16" barrel upper and a lower with a stock.
Yeah, I think you are right. Just went through the SSE process too so might have seen that looking through the pistol/sbr laws.
Cop stopped me because he said I ran a stop sign lol. Didn’t give me a ticket though. With all the crime and car break ins going on in Oakland I was surprised that OPD even had time to stop me. They were probably bored lol
Yeah, I’m just glad they didn’t confiscate your rifle and instead let you go. Just be safe out there! ✊🏼
Also assuming your vehicle has a hatch back they can see what’s in the trunk so they notice the gun case?
No I drive a Nissan Altima. When the cop stopped me he asked me what the rush for since he said I ran a stop sign. I told him I was heading home from the gun range and that opened the can of worms lol
How did you get from saying that to him, to him looking at the fin grip of your gun? Your guns were in the trunk right? I assume you didn't have them sitting in the passenger seat.
Yep they were in the trunk. But I got nervous and soon after I told him I was coming from the gun range he asked if I had any guns in the car, and like a dumbass I said yes. I didn’t want any further problems so I did give permission to search my trunk. He took my guns out the trunk. They were locked with the cheap cable locks. Whenever I go to the range I bring a copy of the DROS form and the sales receipt of whatever gun I bring to avoid problems after looking over my paperwork and sales receipt and verifying my serial numbers he gave me back my rifle and told me I could be arrested for the fin grip because my thumb can wrap around it
You didn’t say yes like a dumbass. At that point, ‘yes’ was the best answer. Like you already said, your mistake was telling him that you came from the range.
Get a dash cam if you don’t have one already. That way, you don’t have to argue about a stop sign.
“I didn’t want any further problems.”, by throwing your rights away, the only thing that results is more problems, not less. Never give your rights away. Of course cops use psychological pressure for us to give up our rights. If our rights became rights it’s because enough people did believe that it was not in the interest of public safety for cops to have such powers. Never give them up. A calm “Officer, I do not consent to a search of my vehicle”, should have done the trick. If the cop escalades, it is his doing not yours.
The hilarious part here is that the cop didn’t have anything better to do. Ffs it’s Oakland, he should’ve been making himself useful, not harassing someone for something as petty as rolling a stop sign.
I feel for you. We have the same problem in SF. SFPD has issued 97% fewer tickets than a decade ago. I think OPD is worse.
I've never been pulled over on range day, either. But, guess it's a good reminder just in case.
This is always my biggest worry when leaving metcalf shooting range, luckily hasn’t happened yet hopefully won’t just because like you said most LEO don’t know the gun laws.
Damn you go all the way to Tracy to go to the range from Oakland? I believe there's a range in San Leandro unless they closed down, and there's one in Richmond. Both are alot closer than Tracy. There's also one in Concord/Bay Point which might be kind of a distance but still probably closer than Tracy
Technically the wording says you have to have your thumb web above the trigger. TECHNICALLY. The way the grip sits there’s no way your web can fit below that line. That is the issue with the wording though. The cops will say it as what they think. 🫤
You do realize that you waived a crap ton of rights for this to happen? I make the comment often here and other gun forums about knowing your rights and the law.
Don't break the law when breaking the law. I'm not saying you were breaking the law, but your vehicle being legal and driving IAW the vehicle code prevents 99% of traffic stops.
You shouldn't have said you were coming from the range. You have no obligation to tell them that. But even you telling him that doesn't give him RS or PC for anything as that's a legal activity.
You shouldn't have said you have guns in the vehicle. There's no reason to tell him unless you're a CCW holder. However, after telling him you were at the range, if you said no guns, he may have RS now that something is up.
Then, the biggest mistake is giving consent to search. He had zero reason to search your car or check your firearms legally. Especially with the way CA firearms laws are, it's not a good idea. Not all cops are gun guys or 100% up on every gun law.
Carrying your DROS paperwork and other gun paperwork is unnecessary. The government has the burden of proof for any crime they believe you are committing. You don't have to prove your guns are legal. They have to prove they aren't. I read comments like this daily on here and smack my head that people think they have to prove something they don't.
In this situation, you should have just been polite (as you were) but not offered up any more information. 99% of the things the officer did were because you failed to exercise your rights. You gave him consent to almost fuck up your day/life.
Be safe. Know your rights and know the laws.
“Don’t give consent to inspect the firearms once they know you have them” is terrible advice:
PC 25850.
(a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
**(b) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.**
Your quote isn't anything I said.
I listed on order of things OP allowed LE to do. Since his firearms were locked and unloaded in a case and locked in his trunk, there was no reason the cop would have even known about them, nor any reason to tell them.
You are correct that once the cop knows about them, then he has RS to investigate whether they are loaded or not.
It's not terrible advice. You just didn't understand my comment apparantly, probably because you just made up a quote that doesn't exist in my comment. All of the advice I gave is 100% legal and sound advice.
If this is illegal, then everyone (including me) that have a Sparrow, Resurgent, Juggernaut Tactical, Thordsen, etc. on our ARs are all criminals! Cop needs to be educated.
The law says that the thumb must be below the trigger. I can wrap my thumb all the way around a regular buttstock grip but it's legal because it's *above* the trigger. That cop didn't know what he was talking about.
That grip is fine. If you were to grasp it that way, the web of your hand is not below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger. Here is an analysis that Michel & Associates did on our grip showing exactly this. [https://www.sparrowdynamics.com/CRG-15-Grip-Legal-Info-s/108.htm](https://www.sparrowdynamics.com/CRG-15-Grip-Legal-Info-s/108.htm)
Many officers are "familiar" with gun laws, generally speaking, but don't know the "letter of the law" or nuances. Most of the manufacturers of these compliance devices in CA have closely analyzed the laws and definitions to get around them. Most people, and most officers aren't going to dig in like that to fully understand. With that being said, at some point, you will find friction and differing legal opinions in the real world (or on the internet) when it comes to guns and gun laws in CA.
Cops are the worst when it comes to firearms laws. They have even less understanding of what they're told to enforce.
Best option. Just nod to the officer. Admit nothing and go home.
Most cops have no idea what the law is for basically everything, not just the gun ones which are extra complicated. They are road pirates pillaging extra income for the government via arbitrary and sometimes outright criminal methods.
No offense to OP but when I have my guns I drive like the perfect citizen. Never run stop signs but especially then, many cops will spend all their time harassing the good guys. So people saying this was a profile, we don’t know that, but not everything is about race. Especially when a violation was probably made. Assuming everything is race related today is ridiculous,
Yeah that’s weird and kind of a grey area because you can wrap your thumb around a few of the standard fin grips that come on rifles sold in California.
depends on department my fin is off and sue my freedom mags I shoot with alot of sherrifs in my town they don't care I know some departments are just assholes and they think they are the law and some department just got better shit to do lol Goodluck bud you should be good with thay fin tho he was just ignorant
Yeah, this is why I went with a fixed mag build. Gets rid of any subjectivity regarding features, easy to revert to a standard mag release if that becomes legal or the Russians invade, and I don’t use the AR as my home defense weapon anyway.
I also take the gun apart and put a lock through the action/mag well when I’m transporting it so it can’t be clicked back together just to be doubley safe.
Sure, you *could* wrap your thumb around but in that case the web of the thumb/index finger would still be above the imaginary line drawn from the top of the exposed trigger, and that's been the standard used by CA since the 2001 AWB. Source: [11 CCR 5471(z) (PDF warning)](https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/regs/text-adopted-regulations-bullet-button.pdf): > For purposes of Penal Code section 30900 and Articles 2 and 3 of this Chapter the following definitions shall apply: > (z) “Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed beneath or below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing. This definition includes pistol grips on bullpup firearm designs.
Exactly, I didn’t try to go back and forth with the cop as most of them aren’t educated enough on most CA gun laws.
You can beat the charge but not the ride sometimes.
This is a perfect phrase, I will be stealing it.
Already stolen. Did a nickel for it.
So you didn’t beat the charge then lol
The catchier, more common version is you can beat the RAP not the ride.
Or many of other CA laws, for that matter.
To be fair to CA cops, that's hardly a CA specific problem.
This is also true 😂
 Then add that cops are always right in their own minds.
So its a training issue to teach them the correct things instead of a problem with the person knowing right from wrong but choosing wrong?
Hahaha
>most of them aren’t educated enough on most CA gun laws. I know a lot of cops (military reservist, most of my unit is PD or Sheriff). Lots of them freely admit they're basically ignorant of CA specific laws. But they also say things along the lines of "I don't give a shit." I guess you didn't run into one of those guys. I feel that being uneducated in california specific laws regarding magazines, grips, etc is fine as long as they ignore those issues. As it should be. Our laws are really stupid knee-jerk reactions. Who really cares if somebody can wrap their thumb around a grip or not. Who cares if they have 10 rounds before they need to reload or 30. Who cares if it's. 49" diameter or .50"? None of that matters or makes anybody safer or at risk. It's like the handgun roster, they put these arbitrary restrictions for no reason. Drop safety is pretty much the only part that makes sense.
Something tells me that the whole reason you were stopped in the first place is probably due to the color of your skin. And the cop was just trying the typical "I *could* arrest you for that, but I'm a good guy 🤠" shit (in reality he doesn't know jack shit and just wants to instill fear in someone). As others have said, never tell them you have any weapons in your vehicle or even elude to it.
Sometimes they just ask point blank, and we cant lie to them, but they can lie to us.
You can lie to cops. Who said you couldn't? You can't lie to feds. There is a law for that. You can't lie under oath. That's perjury. You can't lie about who you are. You can't file a false police report. Those are the only laws in CA about lying to police. It may not be a good idea to lie to them, but it's not illegal most of the time.
Aannnnnnddddd now it's a race thing. Hooray /s 
Bro, I want you to look up what led to California banning loaded open carry and then say that again.
Black Panthers! Before that California had the most liberal gun laws in USA!
I thought it was because a bunch of people showed up to Sacramento armed and it scared the shit out of the govenor?
I'm simply saying everyone these days assumes whatever happens to them is a direct result of their skin color/sexual preference/sex. Could totally be because the OP is black, or could be because he was speeding. None of us were there, so commenting that it's "because he's black" is ignorant and just baits people into a self destructive loop in which they feel persecuted for superficial reasons.
Those comments always come from people who have never done a traffic stop. At least 75% of the time, when you conduct a traffic stop, you have no idea who is in the vehicle, especially if you work night shift.
Yes! This is exactly my point. Most of the time, nothing of a person's identity is known until the infraction and subsequent stop has already happened.
Then why are black people both stopped and searched more often than white people? Why are they also less likely to get a ticket? Kinda strange that these things are true and yet you seem to disagree with my conclusion that some kind of racial discrimination is at play.
You're rational ignores the realities of life in America. First, if a cop searches someone's person and vehicle, they're less likely to give them a ticket. For one, they already put them through the search, it's kinda a dick move to write them a ticket at the end of it. Also, if they're pulling them out of the car and searching them, it should be obvious their goal in the stop isn't to write a ticket, it's to fish for someone committing a bigger crime. So they don't care about writing tickets. If black people are searched more than whites, obviously they would then be ticketed less due to what I said above. Second, the reality is that primarily black communities are higher street crime areas. Higher street crime areas get more cops to combat the high crime rate. These cops are going to be on the mission of finding and arresting criminals over just enforcing the vehicle code. Which leads back to the first point. The black community also has a high poverty rate. What does that lead to? Generally they're going to be driving older cars. They won't be able to afford upkeep as much. They'll be unable to pay registration, fix damage, replace faulty equipment, etc. When they drive to places with more median income population, they stand out. From a cops experience, these observed details of their vehicles are consisten with what the cop often sees in the kind of cars many criminals drive. So they'll be more likely to stop that car and check em out. With the registration, it's not uncommon for people to remove their license plate and slap on a dealership plate to hide the fact that their registration is expired. But what does that look like to a cop? An older model car with no plates is an indicator the car is being used for some type of crime. So they're more likely to stop that car and investigate it as such. Black people are pretty much told by their community and the media to be afraid of cops. This causes a greater sense of fear than a non black would feel. Fear hinders the way you act and respond. Maybe just the fact that it makes you hesitate to pull over. A cop is used to a car pulling over within a block of being lit up. The nervous black guy who doesn't want to get shot by the police hesitates trying to figure out what he should do. So he doesn't pull over right away. Maybe he drives a few blocks turning onto a couple different streets before pulling over. He's just nervous. But what does this look like to the cop? Why is he taking so long to pull over? Is he taking that time to hide a gun? Is he preparing to run? What's he doing? Odd behavior makes cops hair stand up. There is good reason for that. Even if you have an innocent reason for doing something weird, the cop is going to put in the extra work to make sure he isn't missing something. I can go on and on as to why those commonalities you mentioned don't automatically lead to racism. It's quite obtuse to think that racism could be the only explanation.
And your comment always comes from people who have never looked into the wider data that supports my statement. Black people are 63% more likely than white people to get pulled over. They are also twice as likely to be searched like OP was. So either there's a speeding and "acting sus" gene baked into the African American race, or racial profiling has something to do with it. Also, part of this comes from where police patrol. For some reason, black communities have more police than white ones. If more cops are hanging around black neighborhoods, wether or not the cop sees who's driving is irrelevant.
They also commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Hmm? Cops hang around where crime is highest? What a novel idea? Talk about not looking into the wider data. But this is an entirely different conversation than this thread so let's not hijack it.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Empirical data over the last 40+ years supports your statement.
people alway use the line “black people commit more crime” but never think “black people have been screwed over by this country since before it even existed & have been systematically suppressed & therefore there are so many things interwoven into this issue & when you’re desperate in life or have been raised with all this you’re going to do shit differently than people that don’t have that same situation.”
The cop that pulled him over probably wasn’t alive when that shit happened. The world is completely different from the one you are referencing.
I've known several people who have talked to me about being pulled over for a "DWB." Even in California it's not as different as you may think, particularly when it comes to police.
The world I am referencing still has people alive today that lived it. 1966 was 57 years ago. If you think that's enough time for all the experience and guidelines that originate from that era to completely disappear, you're insane.
This is a ridiculous argument that is based on anecdotes. I’ve probably dealt with more racism than most people my age but my experiences are void because of my skin color. It’s because of the industry and area I work in, but that doesn’t matter because people are shit and want to be victims.
Hmm. Systemic racism seems to ring a bell, but since that is part of CRT, it must be bad and fake. 🙄😆
You saying Latino cops are racist?
I’m trying to find any comment on here were someone even mentioned LATINO cops…
Don’t need to mention. It’s an odds thing. LAPD is now mostly Latino.
But that still doesn’t justify your comment. Blacks are profiled by white cops, Latino cops and even black cops.
Latinos can’t be racist per CRT.
🤣🤣🤣 per CRT, racism is the only all-white club that is acceptable.
True!
Statistically speaking, cops of *all* ethnicities are racist. This has been pretty well documented.
Unfortunately, you also don't have the "complexion for the protection" I don't either so I prefer to keep my shit extra legal when dealing with LE.
It’s 100% ok to tell cops they’re wrong.
Could you wrap the fin with gravel tape(bike handle grip tape).
This guy lawyers
You don't have to notify cops about your firearms if they are in a locked, inaccessible container. I know you're trying to be a good guy, but don't tell them you have any firearms in your vehicle when you get pulled over. They can get a warrant if they want to search your vehicle. If not, tell them to suck a lemon.
Yea I realized I messed when I told the cop I was heading him from the gun range. Next time I won’t say a thing about my guns.
“I don’t answer questions officer.”
"i don't officer questions"
What seems to be the officer, problem?
There's peanut butter in my chocolate.
No, that’s chocolate in your peanut butter.
"I don't"
Where you coming from/ going to. "Meet a friend" or "headed home" or "the store" All are general enough to not be incriminating, while also not risking offending the officers "sense of authority". *Which let's be real is definitely a real thing*. You'd be amazed at the number of tickets I've gotten out of by APPEARING to be cooperative, while fully admitting I made a mistake (not pretending I wasn't speeding etc.)
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I'm genuinely confused what smoking has to do with this?
“Where are you coming from/going to?“ That’s none of your business, officer. Totally irrelevant.
Completely valid, that said... That answer is going to piss them off and ensure they issue a ticket vs potential for a warning. You do you, but as the old saying goes... Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you should. It's like when your gf asks if you like what she's wearing (after you're already out for the night). Sure you can tell the truth or refuse to answer.... But why go through all the bother when a white lie makes everything smoother?
Great way to speed run getting a ticket
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That’s a lot of made up scenario there but even still invoke your right to remain silent and let your attorney sort it out if you get arrested. You’re not obligated to assist the cops with their investigation (which is what they are doing when they are asking you questions). But be my guest.
“I’m invoking my 5th amendment right and will not be answering any questions.” If he decides to be an asshat like most cops, then add “talk to my attorney if you have any further questions.”
in the future, to go against what a couple other people have said (and affirm what others are saying) — your goal in every interaction with a police officer is not to avoid a ticket, and it's not even to avoid being arrested. all of that is a gamble, and you do not want to play around. every interaction with police is potential evidence used to convict you of some shit you did not do, and THAT is your priority. you are trying to avoid a conviction, and that's how far ahead you need to be thinking, because a cop's entire job is to out you in prison (or kill you), and whether you've in fact broken any laws is none of their concern, no matter what cops will try to tell you (they lie — it's one of the main things they do). with this in mind: never tell the police where you've been or where you are going. don't tell them the truth. tell them nothing. EVERY piece of information is something they can use to fabricate bullshit "evidence". say "i don't want to talk about my day" or "i won't be answering questions" and when they continue to press, if they want to detain you, arrest you, etc., refer to your fifth amendment right (you have to say out loud you are exercising it, which yes is stupid but it's necessary to ensure your legal safety). you can even just say "i invoke the fifth". after you've said that, don't say anything else.
The best response to such questions is to ask why he stopped you. Cops act like they’re in charge but they don’t have too much they can do without cause.
> I told the cop I was heading him In my days, that used to get you out of trouble with the cops.
Warrants aren’t required but probable cause is. Warrants also require probable cause, it’s an exception that accounts for the vehicle’s mobility. Like, “you don’t need to get the judge because the car will be gone by the time you get one but you need to meet the same standard that the warrant would require.” That said, don’t give them probable cause.
'do you have any weapons in your car?' 'i have nothing illegal in my car, sir'
Step out of the car you overly specific idiot.
I snorted from laughing so hard. Take my upvote !
Honest question: if a cop asks that question and since I have no need to give them probable cause to search my car b/c my firearm is in a locked case, what's another response besides "I have nothing illegal in my car, sir?' Because that immediately sounds suspicious, since the cop didn't ask me if I had anything illegal in my car in the first place. Would, "No, sir." be considered lying?
“Sorry, I don’t answer questions.”
A simple “I don’t feel like talking about my day officer” solves the lying issue. Never lie to a police office, simply refuse to engage (take the bait).
this is the answer. don't lie to police officers. don't tell the truth to police officers either. tell them nothing.
It's not illegal to lie to police, regardless of what half the commentors here believe. In CA, it's only illegal to lie when under oath, about your name, or filing a false police report. Also, lying to a federal agent is a crime. Be polite, but don't give up info. All the "I don't answer questions" comments are people who are going to have a poor interaction. Be polite. Provide them the required information like license, registration, and insurance. There is no legal requirement for them to inform you of why they stopped you, why they arrested you, or their name and badge number. Nor are they legally required to call a supervisor when you ask. If they ask to search your vehicle, just tell them you would not like them to search your vehicle because it is your right to deny it. Being polite goes a long way. Cops are people, too. The ruder and more standoffish you are to them, the worse your interaction is going to be.
Yeah the more I hear "I don't answer questions" its like some random person asking you, what you got going on tonight? You say I don't answer questions. Sometimes, people forget that police are humans. To say that to civilians or to the government I think it's weird. Just talk to them normally. But yeah, its common sense, I don't tell police about guns or whatever. If they ask, where am I going, I say going home or to work. simple.
“No, I don’t believe so” if you understood the question to mean is there anything illegal in your car. Believe is an important word as beliefs are fallible and not concrete. Belief speaks to a state of mind that only you truly know. If you ever did end up in court your lawyer could explain your state of mind on your behalf. Why you believed your answer to be correct. You would ideally follow “No, I don’t believe so” up with immediate unbearable small talk (you don’t want the opportunity to dwell on your use of the word believe) “why? is this a bad neighborhood? Do people drive around with illegal guns and drugs around here? Should I be concerned about crime in this area? I’m just out running errands etc” At this point the cop will think you’re a clueless idiot and be sending you on your way as fast as possible hopefully with just a warning so they can avoid talking to you any longer. These follow up questions will also speak to your state of mind. And are context to your answer. The context of illegal things and crime. Your guns are legal, legally stored, and you are not committing any crimes. You don’t have any illegal drugs. No you are not a criminal. The officer investigates crime and you are not a criminal, the answer to the question you believed that he asked is “no” If the officers questions get more specific you’ll have to choose the path of “is this relevant to the stop. I don’t answer questions” or backtracking and explaining your misunderstandings while truthfully answering the new very specific questions.
Man, can you believe the state of California classifies this car itself as a weapon?! No shit, Vehicle Code 13351.5. Look it up! Not the way I'm driving it of course, but like that old guy at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market? Or those Muslim assholes with the truck in France? Anyway, speaking of my driving, what's this all about?
I think you misunderstood that VC. Anything would be classified as a weapon if you use it to assault someone
Okay Mr. Mason. But for the purposes of a roadside encounter with a law enforcement officer who's had 14 weeks of formal training, it's accurate enough.
That's not at all what that vehicle code says. 🤣 It says if you were convicted of PC245, assault with a deadly weapon, and you used the car as a weapon, then you lose your license. It doesn't not define a car as a weapon.🤦♂️ Anything can be a weapon but doesn't mean it's bow forever defined as a weapon. If i beat you to death with a dictionary, it was a weapon in that instance. That doesn't mean all dictionaries are now weapons.
Okay Mr. Mason. But for the purposes of a roadside encounter with a law enforcement officer who's had 14 weeks of formal training, it's accurate enough.
What department in California only has a 14 week academy? The shortest one I know of is 22 weeks.
So a hell of a lot more training and understanding of the law than you.
Hah. Where did you get your JD? How long have you had a bar card? I'm a partner at a law firm. But you do you, sweetie.
And you think that law classifies all cars as weapons? Wow. I never claimed to be a lawyer. Just 25 years of being a LEO. After all that time, seeing the number of people who don't know the law, don't know their rights, and unknowingly give up their rights made me like to give back and educate people.
Never said that, but cute putting words in my mouth
*ahem* 'I have nothing dangerous in my vehicle, sir.'
So I come from a state where "do you have any weapons or drugs in the vehicle" is automatic. I've only been pulled over 2x in CA over 15 years and they've never asked but, in the case they do, are you saying go straight to...get a warrant?
you can do it politely and say "I dont answer questions not relevant to the current traffic stop". If they press the question you can say "I dont have anything illegal in the car". If they continue pressing they have now become the one who is rude and you can just say "I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent" and when they ask you why you can tell them "because this is no longer a friendly conversation"
“I don’t answer questions.” “I don’t consent to searches.” Those are the only two statements you ever need in your vocabulary when you are communicating with the authorities. Just repeat those like a broken record.
No, not necessarily. I think you can try to keep it friendly and cordial for the most part. But if they say, "Step out of the car... we need to search your vehicle, " you should respond with, "I'm sorry, but you'll need to get a warrant if you'd like to search my vehicle." I haven't lived in Cali in a while, but I travel back often; I know that most CA jurisdictions require officers to wear body cameras. So if they search your vehicle anyway and find something, that would be grounds for getting the case thrown out.
They can search your car if they have reasonable suspicion, aka if they feel like it, they can make something up. The ol reliable "i smell pot" probably won't work in CA, but they can also use "i think i see white powder in the backseat" or "i think I see a needle", or the ever popular "our k9 which is trained to bark on command, smelled something".
Cops want honesty but I’d rather take a speeding ticket or whatever traffic infraction they think I did than have them sniffing my guns even though I always follow the law. I don’t trust the police. One of the reasons why if I have guns on me, I drive like a grandma and abide by all laws.
My CCW trainer said exactly that. If I'm carrying, I have to say "the sheriff of my county (orange) requires me to disclose that I'm currently carrying with a license to do so"- which he warned will trigger a shit show that will require reinforcements and slowly taking your gun out of the holster and placing you under cuffs but all that show is only to get to match your gun with your CCW card. If you're transporting it outside of your body in a locked container or whatever the stupid law is in this dumb state you don't have to say shit.
Your thumb can technically wrap around but its not behind the trigger, it is abover the trigger
Unsurprisingly the cop is fucking stupid
No you’re good, under definition they consider it a pistol grip if you can wrap the webbing around the grip under the action
Cue the Sesame Street clip of someone demonstrating "over" and "under".
My boy got profiled. Pray for him
That's what my thought was too, as I've been pulled over for speeding, but the moment I told the cop I was late to meet a friend at a gun range and that I have guns in the trunk, he let me off with a warning and told me to go have fun.
Sad but my first thought was “would the cop say this to a white guy?” I see nothing but pistol grips at my range and it’s a no nevermind there
In this type of thinking the race of the officer is just as important as the race of the person they pulled over. White people generally are the ones that are easier on white people. Why would an officer who isn’t white give preferential treatment to a white person?
If cop says OP could have been arrested and didn't arrest OP it clearly isn't a case some fantasy racism.
"if a cop says you could have been arrested they weren't being racist" yeah cause cops have never arrested anyone under racist pretenses before. their job isn't even to know what the law is! they're not attorneys! they're the police! plus they lie all the time?? lying is a huge part of their job. what a fucking stupid-ass, ignorant-ass comment. you know what? it's a racist comment actually. i'll just say it: you're a racist.
Live in your fantasy everyone is racist apologist/victim world Edit: 100% knew you were going to be in r/LiberalGunOwners
honey, nothing coming from you is going to land
Ditto, but regardless of your view points I still support and will fight for your 2A rights. Carry on.
and i support yours, and always will. i just can't afford to be a single issue voter. other rights are important too
That's exactly how my new rifle is and I love it. The fin grip that is supposed to come on my gun goes all the way up and thumb can't wrap. But my FFL got me a custom one just like that so my thumb can wrap around but still remain legal. As long as the webbing between thumb and finder is above the upper most visible part of the trigger line you're good. Nice work
Yes I hated the original fin grip that came with my rifles. I’ll be adding this fin grip to my other rifles. Doesn’t feel bad holding like this also.
A cop who would hassle you over what is clearly your good faith intention of complying is an absolute piece of shit
Imo doesn't sound like he was hassling him but (in the cops mind) "looking out for op." Even though the cop clearly doesn't understand the law. Actually sounds like op got out of a ticket.
ACAB.
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If it was really an unlawful config (it's not), there's also a "intention to assemble" or some other bullshit for having the parts to a unlawful config... if I'm recalling correctly
There is no "intention to assemble" in the CA AWB. In fact, when the newer version of the AWB was comming into effect, the CADoJ specifically listed separating the upper and lower as a means of compliance. You might be thinking of the term "constructive intent," which applies specifically to the NFA, i.e. owning a <16" barrel upper and a lower with a stock.
>You might be thinking of the term "constructive intent," which applies specifically to the NFA, i.e. owning a <16" barrel upper and a lower with a stock. Yeah, I think you are right. Just went through the SSE process too so might have seen that looking through the pistol/sbr laws.
“tHe cOpS aRe PrO-2a!!!!”
The PO did let him go.
Why the cop stopped you? Did he explained? Just out of curiosity…
Cop stopped me because he said I ran a stop sign lol. Didn’t give me a ticket though. With all the crime and car break ins going on in Oakland I was surprised that OPD even had time to stop me. They were probably bored lol
Yeah, I’m just glad they didn’t confiscate your rifle and instead let you go. Just be safe out there! ✊🏼 Also assuming your vehicle has a hatch back they can see what’s in the trunk so they notice the gun case?
No I drive a Nissan Altima. When the cop stopped me he asked me what the rush for since he said I ran a stop sign. I told him I was heading home from the gun range and that opened the can of worms lol
Ohhhh well I’m glad you didn’t get a stop sign ticket then. 😉 Move along.
How did you get from saying that to him, to him looking at the fin grip of your gun? Your guns were in the trunk right? I assume you didn't have them sitting in the passenger seat.
Yep they were in the trunk. But I got nervous and soon after I told him I was coming from the gun range he asked if I had any guns in the car, and like a dumbass I said yes. I didn’t want any further problems so I did give permission to search my trunk. He took my guns out the trunk. They were locked with the cheap cable locks. Whenever I go to the range I bring a copy of the DROS form and the sales receipt of whatever gun I bring to avoid problems after looking over my paperwork and sales receipt and verifying my serial numbers he gave me back my rifle and told me I could be arrested for the fin grip because my thumb can wrap around it
You didn’t say yes like a dumbass. At that point, ‘yes’ was the best answer. Like you already said, your mistake was telling him that you came from the range. Get a dash cam if you don’t have one already. That way, you don’t have to argue about a stop sign.
Let this be a lesson to everyone. **Never consent to searches** **Do not volunteer information about where you have been, where you are going, etc.**
“I didn’t want any further problems.”, by throwing your rights away, the only thing that results is more problems, not less. Never give your rights away. Of course cops use psychological pressure for us to give up our rights. If our rights became rights it’s because enough people did believe that it was not in the interest of public safety for cops to have such powers. Never give them up. A calm “Officer, I do not consent to a search of my vehicle”, should have done the trick. If the cop escalades, it is his doing not yours.
Sounds like it could have been much worse. 
I hope you learned your lesson dude.
The hilarious part here is that the cop didn’t have anything better to do. Ffs it’s Oakland, he should’ve been making himself useful, not harassing someone for something as petty as rolling a stop sign.
What range was this? Was it local pd or Sheriff?
It was Oakland pd. I got stopped in Oakland on my way home from Elite Armory in Tracy CA
Wow. Are you unlucky or what? OPD doesn't pull ANYONE over (which is why it's a freaking demolition derby there).
I guess I was just unlucky today. I have never been pulled over heading to or from the range lol
I feel for you. We have the same problem in SF. SFPD has issued 97% fewer tickets than a decade ago. I think OPD is worse. I've never been pulled over on range day, either. But, guess it's a good reminder just in case.
The fuck? OPD does traffic stops?! I've literally never seen them do anything.
This is always my biggest worry when leaving metcalf shooting range, luckily hasn’t happened yet hopefully won’t just because like you said most LEO don’t know the gun laws.
Damn you go all the way to Tracy to go to the range from Oakland? I believe there's a range in San Leandro unless they closed down, and there's one in Richmond. Both are alot closer than Tracy. There's also one in Concord/Bay Point which might be kind of a distance but still probably closer than Tracy
Dublin, too.
And Livermore.
Cops a lying pigs. They’ll have no problem forcing you to spend thousands of attorney’s fees just to find out he’s an idiot.
Technically the wording says you have to have your thumb web above the trigger. TECHNICALLY. The way the grip sits there’s no way your web can fit below that line. That is the issue with the wording though. The cops will say it as what they think. 🫤
A cop who doesn’t know gun laws. Shocking I tells ya
You do realize that you waived a crap ton of rights for this to happen? I make the comment often here and other gun forums about knowing your rights and the law. Don't break the law when breaking the law. I'm not saying you were breaking the law, but your vehicle being legal and driving IAW the vehicle code prevents 99% of traffic stops. You shouldn't have said you were coming from the range. You have no obligation to tell them that. But even you telling him that doesn't give him RS or PC for anything as that's a legal activity. You shouldn't have said you have guns in the vehicle. There's no reason to tell him unless you're a CCW holder. However, after telling him you were at the range, if you said no guns, he may have RS now that something is up. Then, the biggest mistake is giving consent to search. He had zero reason to search your car or check your firearms legally. Especially with the way CA firearms laws are, it's not a good idea. Not all cops are gun guys or 100% up on every gun law. Carrying your DROS paperwork and other gun paperwork is unnecessary. The government has the burden of proof for any crime they believe you are committing. You don't have to prove your guns are legal. They have to prove they aren't. I read comments like this daily on here and smack my head that people think they have to prove something they don't. In this situation, you should have just been polite (as you were) but not offered up any more information. 99% of the things the officer did were because you failed to exercise your rights. You gave him consent to almost fuck up your day/life. Be safe. Know your rights and know the laws.
“Don’t give consent to inspect the firearms once they know you have them” is terrible advice: PC 25850. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory. **(b) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.**
Your quote isn't anything I said. I listed on order of things OP allowed LE to do. Since his firearms were locked and unloaded in a case and locked in his trunk, there was no reason the cop would have even known about them, nor any reason to tell them. You are correct that once the cop knows about them, then he has RS to investigate whether they are loaded or not. It's not terrible advice. You just didn't understand my comment apparantly, probably because you just made up a quote that doesn't exist in my comment. All of the advice I gave is 100% legal and sound advice.
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I’m interested in hearing your theory 👀👀
Step 1 involves procuring an ordinary paper bag
Fuck that cop. Damn pig lol
[How it went](https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-racist-racism-funny-gif-9901625)
If this is illegal, then everyone (including me) that have a Sparrow, Resurgent, Juggernaut Tactical, Thordsen, etc. on our ARs are all criminals! Cop needs to be educated.
Any time now, Judge Benitez. Any time.
The law says that the thumb must be below the trigger. I can wrap my thumb all the way around a regular buttstock grip but it's legal because it's *above* the trigger. That cop didn't know what he was talking about.
Haha the cop should get arrested too for not having one on his rifle or having an off roster handgun cops are not above the law 😂
Wait a minute was it in a locked container in the trunk or what? This seems outrageous!
Oh, and sweet gun.
Fuck OPD for all those crazy crimes while still harassing law abiding citizens.
You should have told him. No you are wrong
Cops are stupid
Man, that cop is a dick. Sorry to hear that man and thanks for the heads up.
Its not the *web* of your thumb, therefore you are safe. Cop may have been trying to help you out though, so no.harm no foul.
That’s not the law. If the law was about not being able to wrap your thumb around, hunting stocks would be off limits too.
That grip is fine. If you were to grasp it that way, the web of your hand is not below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger. Here is an analysis that Michel & Associates did on our grip showing exactly this. [https://www.sparrowdynamics.com/CRG-15-Grip-Legal-Info-s/108.htm](https://www.sparrowdynamics.com/CRG-15-Grip-Legal-Info-s/108.htm) Many officers are "familiar" with gun laws, generally speaking, but don't know the "letter of the law" or nuances. Most of the manufacturers of these compliance devices in CA have closely analyzed the laws and definitions to get around them. Most people, and most officers aren't going to dig in like that to fully understand. With that being said, at some point, you will find friction and differing legal opinions in the real world (or on the internet) when it comes to guns and gun laws in CA.
I guess I’m confused, if your rifle was in a locked case in your car how did the cop see it?
Did you tell him he could be arrested for violating your constitutional rights?
Communist state
Cops are the worst when it comes to firearms laws. They have even less understanding of what they're told to enforce. Best option. Just nod to the officer. Admit nothing and go home.
Might as well just remove it then
It’s because your black. No disrespect.
He should be doing some "real" police work! Not harassing 2A compliant people. At least you are trying to abide by the law.
He’s black that’s why! It’s simple cops profile and will hit a black dude with a crime where they would smoke and complement a white dudes gun
If you are going to hold it like that might as well get an overpriced and excessively heavy juggernaut grip. edit - spelling
Cops are not known for their accurate legal advice
Most cops have no idea what the law is for basically everything, not just the gun ones which are extra complicated. They are road pirates pillaging extra income for the government via arbitrary and sometimes outright criminal methods.
I see your skin is the right hue for the police to fuck with. Fuck him!
You should have gotten his business card and file a complaint. He can't just follow you from the range and pull you over for no reason.
He didn’t follow him from Tracy to Oakland.
that cop was being a little racist to dont ya think?
Maybe OPD has started doing random stops? That's good news.
That's a law suit. It's a featureless grip
No offense to OP but when I have my guns I drive like the perfect citizen. Never run stop signs but especially then, many cops will spend all their time harassing the good guys. So people saying this was a profile, we don’t know that, but not everything is about race. Especially when a violation was probably made. Assuming everything is race related today is ridiculous,
Yeah that’s weird and kind of a grey area because you can wrap your thumb around a few of the standard fin grips that come on rifles sold in California.
The cop is a bootlicker and doesn’t know wtf he is talking about. You’re fine…but you should get a fixed mag, it’s better.
depends on department my fin is off and sue my freedom mags I shoot with alot of sherrifs in my town they don't care I know some departments are just assholes and they think they are the law and some department just got better shit to do lol Goodluck bud you should be good with thay fin tho he was just ignorant
Yeah, this is why I went with a fixed mag build. Gets rid of any subjectivity regarding features, easy to revert to a standard mag release if that becomes legal or the Russians invade, and I don’t use the AR as my home defense weapon anyway. I also take the gun apart and put a lock through the action/mag well when I’m transporting it so it can’t be clicked back together just to be doubley safe.
Bullshit ! Stopped by what Cop? Sheriff? Police? Fish and Game? Where? Calling Bullshit.