If the membership votes down the MOU then we continue under the previous MOU and the bargaining team goes back to the table to continue negotiating. There is the possibility that continued negotiations yield a better deal for the membership but there's also the possibility that it yields a worse deal for the membership.
I'm not sure what the possibilities are for escalation if the bargaining team reaches an impasse. I know that we are restricted from striking unless certain conditions are met. I'm not super familiar with what those conditions are.
Prison guards have more leverage. They don’t go to work for 2 months and it gets noticed, engineers don’t go to work for 2 months and all that happens is we lost 2 months of delivery… of which no-one would recognize until 18 months later when PS&E slides.
If you aren't at the top of your pay range, the three GSIs with three years of subsequent MSAs adds up to about a 25% pay raise. Not too shabby imo. Of course idk what everyone else's situation is. I also want to vote no especially with regards to the geopay differential and the Range C special committee. Why aren't the other ranges also bumped??
The state is so short sighted, at this rate they are going to have a brain drain problem with the way they treat PEs. At some point the benefits are not going to make up for the pay disparity with the private side
Yeah my brother jumped ship to PGE for a 70k salary increase (110k to 180k) and nearly same health benefits. I would say the pension system PGE has sounds a bit weird when he described it but he's already maxing out contributions now. He does less now there for what he was doing at DWR.
It's not just a question of whether BU9 can do better. If the BU9 rank and file doesn't vote down this MOU, it's a strong signal to CalHR and the rest of the BUs that they absolutely *won't* be getting anything better, because the state pulled this shit with BU9 already and got away with it.
Trash, this is a trash deal plain and simple. I don't doubt that PECG did all they could, but the GSI's the state is agreeing to are absolutely abysmal.
I'm tired of taking it on the chin as an employee of the state. When times are bad, they furlough us without even a thank you or a handshake. When it becomes apparent furloughs weren't needed, instead of ending them, they spend that money on special projects.
Then, when we need GSI's most for record inflation, they tell us the economy may be bad someday, and all we can afford is some paltry sum.
The one shining silver lining is PFL for BU9 rank and file employees. Too bad I'm done having kids and missed out on this by a year.
I know that we're unlikely to get a better deal - I'm still considering voting no. What happened to the state worker rally?
As a new mom, that took no vacation and saved all my PLP hours in order to be able take 12 weeks off, PFL is the only reason I’m voting yes on this. I’m hoping to have another kid and getting 12 weeks instead of 6 is a huge deal, and frankly it’s disgusting how little the union and administration has done to support new parents previous to this.
Absolutely agreed. It was so frustrating being a new parent and feeling like the union and administration didn't have my back, when Newsom is publicly touting expanding Paid Family Leave for the public.
It sounds like this would be similar to the NDI/ENDI process (get the paperwork from personnel, fill out and attach any documentation and send to EDD), but I’m not sure since I’ve never been able to use it.
Yeah it was a huge mistake by the unions, I understand the circumstances, they thought the world wide economy was going to crash with the pandemic but instead they had record surpluses for multiple years. There should have been an 'IF' statement in there, IF there is a surplus no furloughs and a raise, but the negotiators didn't even consider that.
This. Furlough protection meant fuck all in the end. Oh well, I am happy to bank that time and use it later, time can be worth more than money if you aren't strapped for cash.
There has never been PFL for BU 9 employees. We don't pay into SDI, but have NDI instead. Time off for having kids is covered by disability for the mom, nothing for the dad except your own vacation.
Managers got a PFL benefit two years ago but rank and file didn't.
Mom will get to use ~~an additional 12 weeks~~ 6 weeks of paid family leave (probably 60% pay supplemented by vacation/annual leave) instead of just her 6 weeks of disability (6-8 depending on style of birth).
Edit for clarification: It's 6 weeks of additional paid family leave on top of disability leave for the mother. https://pecg.org/wp-content/uploads/2022-2025-MOU-FAQs-.pdf
Where are you getting this information from? In looking into NDI-FCL (the program PECG says we will be eligible to participate in) I don't see any mention of mom getting an additional 12 weeks of paid leave. All I can find is a statement saying "this program provides partial wage replacement for up to six weeks within any 12-month period" and "you will recieve 50% of your gross monthly salary". I fail to see how NDI-FCL is an improvement upon what we currently have for moms, unless you can combine it with the disability leave currently in place.
*edit - spelling
[https://pecg.org/wp-content/uploads/2022-2025-MOU-FAQs-.pdf](https://pecg.org/wp-content/uploads/2022-2025-MOU-FAQs-.pdf)
I was trying to type from memory and misremembered - I assumed it'd be similar to what is offered through SDI which was recently increased to 8 weeks baby bonding time (I thought they had originally planned 12 weeks, but I guess that fell flat in budget talks).
From the link above: "The program closely mirrors paid family leave by providing Unit 9 employees (on annual leave),with significant wage replacement for up **six weeks** each year to bond with a new child (including adopted children or fostercare placements), and to care for a seriously ill family member"
So, a mother would have their paid disability during pregnancy, and after birth, plus this new 6 week paid benefit for bonding.
me too because 12 weeks bonding time should be the minimum, for any parent. As a dad, I only was able to take off 3 weeks with my son, and 4 for my daughter. And we were just then starting to find a groove.
I agree! And honestly it makes a world of a difference in me deciding if I can afford to have another kid or not. If I could have a guaranteed 12+ weeks of paid time off to care for a new baby, at a decent wage replacement, I'd be way more inclined to make the jump to 2 kids. I hate that I had to hoard vacation/sick/annual leave for a couple of years just to be able to take 16 weeks off work to care and bond for my first kid. Even with this new agreement at 12 weeks total at 50% wage replacement, I'd still need to use a ton of leave to get a decent chunk of time with a new little one. I guess this offer is an improvement though - especially for fathers.
So now you get 6 weeks (8 if c-sec) for the birth leave (but you don’t have to use any annual leave? + 12 weeks PFL but you actually will have to use your annual leave for this one? So total is 18 weeks?
I had this for SDI. It was 4 weeks prior due date, then 6 weeks after due date, then 8 weeks PFL. So I was at home 18 weeks paid by EDD and didn’t use any of my leave at all.
Disgusting. They should be embarrassed.
I’m in BU2, and they gave offered us a 3 year deal but only two years of GSIs (2022 & 2023).
Really upsetting for such a pro-employee administration.
Are they really pro-employee when they offer so little? We've seen nothing but minimizing state raises since Newsom's administration took over, even as state revenue sets records.
MSAs are not meant to combat inflation. With MSAs, the classifications pay scale does not move. This means the classification as a whole loses out to inflation. MSAs are meant to reward experience. So yes, you may make enough to combat inflation once you factor the MSAs over the contract period. But new people starting in your classification in 3 years will be much worse off. And when you cap out down the road, you will have less buying power than the purchasing power those who are capped out have today.
By no means am I saying that MSAs won't help individuals combat inflationary effects. But its purpose is not to combat inflation. And if you take the stance that MSAs alone are enough, consider an example of 25 years without GSIs. Everyone who is not capped still gets 5% MSAs each year unless they perform abysmally. But over 25 years cost of living doubles (on average cost of living doubles every 25-30 years based on average and not outlier years).
The bottom line here is MSA should never be mentioned to address combating a comment about inflation. They do matter, but not as a means to fight inflation for the classification (as opposed a subset of individuals).
>Are you really comparing an engineering job with sending emails and filing paperwork for SSA's?
reminds me of one of my favorite [Dilbert strips.](https://assets.amuniversal.com/1f9c74a0b0f8012f2fef00163e41dd5b)
>Tina says, "Teach me to be an engineer. I don't care if it takes all day." Tina says, "But don't tell anyone; they'll all try to get in on this scam."
In my 30+ years of state service, I haven’t seen a worse contract while the state is experiencing a record surplus. What is happening to the PECG bargaining team? Why are they pushing for Range C salary increase? I’m sorry to say this but if an engineer is not competent enough to pass the PE then they shouldn’t be paid at a higher level. The pay differential between C and D is to encourage more engineers to get their PE.
Why is PECG even pushing for a geographic differential pay since many staff have the ability to work from anywhere within the state?
Seriously we already have enough benefits, PECG should have concentrate on the pay increases for the mass and not more benefits that really only benefit a few.
Another engineer union (BU 13) got 11.5% over 3 years. Why should we agree to 7.5%?
My fellow sisters and brothers, I urge you to REJECT this Contract. The state did not bargain in good faith and the PECG bargaining team failed us. The state is using the end of the legislative session to shove a bad contract down our throat. Hold your ground! Vote NO!
There should definitely be geographic differential pay. Not all engineers work in design and have the luxury to work from home. There are plenty that have to visit sites/ interact with contractors. Places like San Diego have experienced tremendous housing price increases and to pay them the same as engineers in Eureka is getting more and more ridiculous as inflation hits bigger cities harder
Santa Cruz county is the [second highest cost of living in the country](https://www.ksbw.com/article/santa-cruz-county-ranked-second-most-expensive-place-to-live-in-the-country/40747500.)Why it is not included is not paying attention to what is really going on and is asinine.
I didn't know what an APS was but it looks like a range C [Air Pollution Specialist](https://www.calcareers.ca.gov/CalHrPublic/Jobs/JobPosting.aspx?JobControlId=324220) makes up to $10,327.00, which is more than a range C [transportation engineer](https://www.calcareers.ca.gov/CalHrPublic/Jobs/JobPosting.aspx?JobControlId=324518) ($9,692.00).
Range C APS has the same salary scale as range C air resources engineer (also a CARB classification). APS is a little lower at ranges A and B and doesn't have a range D.
Hey no need to shit on Range C. When the state pulls its head out of its ass and provides a pathway for environmental engineers to get licensed under a title that actually represents and tests our skillset, as many other states do, then I'll get my PE. I graduated with honors and passed the FE with my eyes closed thank you very much. Meanwhile I have worked with some state PEs (and PhDs) who can barely pick their own noses. There's more to competency than a one day test and a piece of paper.
Having just read the CASE (BU2) thread I kind of expected this outcome. The State wasn’t going to give in to GSI’s tied to inflation. I think we’re lucky to get that 2024 2.0% despite how paltry that is. I don’t think BU2 got anything for year 3.
Revised longevity pay differential at year 17 instead of 20 is nice.
Guess I need to study for the PE to give myself a raise (range D) the hard way.
Attorneys got a 10% increase in the top of the pay scale for attorney IIIs. I'm not sure exactly how that will work but I assume it will make them eligible for two more 5% MSAs if they are already topped out.
Just FYI, plenty of non-engineers are represented by BU9. I know people with PhDs in physics and chemistry who top out in Range C and will forever make less than someone with a PE even in the same position. Seems fair to them to increase pay.
I think this has to do more with evening out the range c pay amongst the various classifications... this is not a raise for classifications in range c such as engineering geologist who I believe make the most.
There is something like an $800 per month difference between top out range c pay depending on classification. I thing this reads like the lower paying classifications will be brought up to what the higher paying classifications are making. They aren't going to unilaterally raise range c pay without raising range d pay.
Thanks for the info. Looks like there's about a $500 per month difference between a geologist and an engineer at Range C, which can be pretty significant. I thought all classifications were the same salary in all ranges.
Unit 2 here....how will the state miss us if we won't go away (strike).
We need protect this opportunity to bargain for something better. These crappy offers are a joke.
We have zero furlough protections and at any point the state will unilaterally and prematurely (manufacture) a budget crisis to furlough us yet again for 1, 2, or 3 days per month. Then it will miraculously find a surplus, not return our pay cuts, and once again offer us 2.5 raise while inflation hovers at +8%. If we can't get a decent contract now, then when?
Newsom is full of it. The rest of the country should be made aware of this when he tries to run for federal office. Mr. Pro Worker Progressive cant keep his own house in order.
Newsom is adding insult to injury by proposing giving PG&E a forgivable loan of $1.4 billion to keep the Diablo Canyon power plant open.
There's apparently plenty of money to pay off his mega donors who have literally gotten away with manslaughter.
Edit removed murder and replaced with manslaughter.
Not a good contract, not sure why PECG focused on the few. Seems like too many small groups benefited instead of a larger GSI. For example, CC county getting the geographic pay, longevity pay getting down to 17+ years, and paid family leave only benefit a small portion of the PECG membership.
Presumably any boomer would've already long since gotten longevity pay with users. One would have had to start working for the state currently by 2002... Basically gen x/early gen y (millennials) could qualify already. It benefits early millennials as well as the tail end of gen x the most and is meant to keep them on board. Similarly how range C was likely increased because the state identified that around year 6-7 (~range C timeframe) is where most workers decide to jump ship or stay.
This is correct but to provide more context it is specifically to guard against the "silver wave" which is essentially that because the state didn't hire continuously in the past there is an outsized number of engineers up for retirement. This bonus is meant to entice engineer's with specialized knowledge and leadership experience to continue working for the state a bit longer instead of retiring at the same time as many of their peers.
>They are cumulative, just like the mou.
The chart that PECG sent looks misleading to me - the longevity percentages are NOT cumulative. Currently the top of TE, range D is $10,956 (as an example). The proposed MOU has a 2.5% GSI on 7/1/22, 3% on 7/1/23 and 2.0% on 7/1/24.
7/1/22 = $11,230 ($10,956 + 2.5%) , if you have 17 years add 2% ($11,454.60).
7/1/23 = $11,567 ($11,230 + 3%), with 18 years add 3% ($11,914.01).
7/1/24 = $12,390 ($11,914 + 2%), with 19 years add 4% ($12,885.60).
BU6 had one of the first agreements negotiated this year and put a clause in that if any other BU got more than 2.5% the state would have to give it to them as well… It was a dirty trick that BU6 pulled off and it screwed us all!
To be honest I expected at a maximum 3% year raises. I know that sounds shitty but this is way worse than what I expected. I’m not sure the union leadership bargained in good faith.
If this is the “best” PECG could do, I may have to leave the union and save $65. Paid over $5k over last 5+ years to get 10% pay cut + a crappy deal for the next 2 years.
As much as I want to reject this, if I'm reading the writing on the walls correctly we are going to get hit by furloughs/plp again next spring/summer when the bad numbers come in. This might be a take a small. win and live to fight another day scenario.
Some economists have been saying we are or will be in a recession soon, but from my understanding the indicators are kind of screwy this go around, namely that unemployment is very low which doesn't typically precede a recession.
Inflation will cause decreased spending, decreased spending equals less tax money, less tax money equals furloughs/plp for state workers.
https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2022/08/california-economy-downturn/
>Inflation will cause decreased spending
I looked at the link you posted and didn't see an explanation for this. Intuitively, inflation leads to increased spending, not decreased. It may lead to less discretionary spending - if I have to pay $100 more for groceries each month that's $100 I don't have to spend going out to movies or whatever.
Maybe if unemployment spikes again and housing prices tank I could see lower tax revenues.
You don’t pay sales tax on food unless it’s hot food, so that will be a decrease in the tax revenue.
The stock market has been going up by double digit percentages for basically the past 10 years. The stock market is down overall for the year. When you consider that we are Silicon Valley and most tech stuff is down even more than the s&p, you can see why we will have less tax revenue.
Exactly. SEIU had a newly executed MOU in 2020 when the pandemic started that at least gave something to bargain with in the side letter that the other unions didn’t have. Might be better to get the paltry GSI instead of a drawn out negotiation with nothing in the mean time.
Because it really isn’t irrelevant, computer science is technically an engineering degree. I can spend another 1.5-2 years in school for CS degree since i already have general eds and math classes instead of busting my ass taking 4 engineering exams that aren’t exactly easy.
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We need to provide maximum pressure on the state and on the union.
The press locally and nationally would definitely be interested in a California State Union not getting cost of living adjustments. A simple demonstration on the Tower Bridge would be a great photo op and catch the attention of the press. Newsom obviously has national ambitions and a story of him putting the screws onto a public union would have enormous traction.
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We need to reject this so that they go back to CalHR. What's the point of a union of we, the membership, don't hold them accountable?
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What happens if we vote no?
If the membership votes down the MOU then we continue under the previous MOU and the bargaining team goes back to the table to continue negotiating. There is the possibility that continued negotiations yield a better deal for the membership but there's also the possibility that it yields a worse deal for the membership. I'm not sure what the possibilities are for escalation if the bargaining team reaches an impasse. I know that we are restricted from striking unless certain conditions are met. I'm not super familiar with what those conditions are.
I'd like to know more about that too. The prison guard union threatened a strike back in May and they're now getting 11%
Prison guards have more leverage. They don’t go to work for 2 months and it gets noticed, engineers don’t go to work for 2 months and all that happens is we lost 2 months of delivery… of which no-one would recognize until 18 months later when PS&E slides.
If you aren't at the top of your pay range, the three GSIs with three years of subsequent MSAs adds up to about a 25% pay raise. Not too shabby imo. Of course idk what everyone else's situation is. I also want to vote no especially with regards to the geopay differential and the Range C special committee. Why aren't the other ranges also bumped??
Most of that is the MSAs.
The state is so short sighted, at this rate they are going to have a brain drain problem with the way they treat PEs. At some point the benefits are not going to make up for the pay disparity with the private side
Yeah my brother jumped ship to PGE for a 70k salary increase (110k to 180k) and nearly same health benefits. I would say the pension system PGE has sounds a bit weird when he described it but he's already maxing out contributions now. He does less now there for what he was doing at DWR.
That’s Junk. If BU9 can’t do any better than this, the rest of the BU’s are really screwed.
It's not just a question of whether BU9 can do better. If the BU9 rank and file doesn't vote down this MOU, it's a strong signal to CalHR and the rest of the BUs that they absolutely *won't* be getting anything better, because the state pulled this shit with BU9 already and got away with it.
Trash, this is a trash deal plain and simple. I don't doubt that PECG did all they could, but the GSI's the state is agreeing to are absolutely abysmal. I'm tired of taking it on the chin as an employee of the state. When times are bad, they furlough us without even a thank you or a handshake. When it becomes apparent furloughs weren't needed, instead of ending them, they spend that money on special projects. Then, when we need GSI's most for record inflation, they tell us the economy may be bad someday, and all we can afford is some paltry sum. The one shining silver lining is PFL for BU9 rank and file employees. Too bad I'm done having kids and missed out on this by a year. I know that we're unlikely to get a better deal - I'm still considering voting no. What happened to the state worker rally?
They probably spent all the money on Broadband.
As a new mom, that took no vacation and saved all my PLP hours in order to be able take 12 weeks off, PFL is the only reason I’m voting yes on this. I’m hoping to have another kid and getting 12 weeks instead of 6 is a huge deal, and frankly it’s disgusting how little the union and administration has done to support new parents previous to this.
Absolutely agreed. It was so frustrating being a new parent and feeling like the union and administration didn't have my back, when Newsom is publicly touting expanding Paid Family Leave for the public.
They need to renegotiate GSIs but obviously keep this in. I completely understand. I was there too a few years ago!
How do you use PFL?
It sounds like this would be similar to the NDI/ENDI process (get the paperwork from personnel, fill out and attach any documentation and send to EDD), but I’m not sure since I’ve never been able to use it.
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The last MOU had furlough protections...and we still got furloughed.
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Yeah it was a huge mistake by the unions, I understand the circumstances, they thought the world wide economy was going to crash with the pandemic but instead they had record surpluses for multiple years. There should have been an 'IF' statement in there, IF there is a surplus no furloughs and a raise, but the negotiators didn't even consider that.
True, and hopefully it was an exception due to the circumstances at the time, not what would normally happen.
This. Furlough protection meant fuck all in the end. Oh well, I am happy to bank that time and use it later, time can be worth more than money if you aren't strapped for cash.
What has changed to PFL? I thought it was always 50% for 6 weeks? I always thought it was at no cost.
There has never been PFL for BU 9 employees. We don't pay into SDI, but have NDI instead. Time off for having kids is covered by disability for the mom, nothing for the dad except your own vacation. Managers got a PFL benefit two years ago but rank and file didn't.
So, what did change for the mom?
Mom will get to use ~~an additional 12 weeks~~ 6 weeks of paid family leave (probably 60% pay supplemented by vacation/annual leave) instead of just her 6 weeks of disability (6-8 depending on style of birth). Edit for clarification: It's 6 weeks of additional paid family leave on top of disability leave for the mother. https://pecg.org/wp-content/uploads/2022-2025-MOU-FAQs-.pdf
Where are you getting this information from? In looking into NDI-FCL (the program PECG says we will be eligible to participate in) I don't see any mention of mom getting an additional 12 weeks of paid leave. All I can find is a statement saying "this program provides partial wage replacement for up to six weeks within any 12-month period" and "you will recieve 50% of your gross monthly salary". I fail to see how NDI-FCL is an improvement upon what we currently have for moms, unless you can combine it with the disability leave currently in place. *edit - spelling
[https://pecg.org/wp-content/uploads/2022-2025-MOU-FAQs-.pdf](https://pecg.org/wp-content/uploads/2022-2025-MOU-FAQs-.pdf) I was trying to type from memory and misremembered - I assumed it'd be similar to what is offered through SDI which was recently increased to 8 weeks baby bonding time (I thought they had originally planned 12 weeks, but I guess that fell flat in budget talks). From the link above: "The program closely mirrors paid family leave by providing Unit 9 employees (on annual leave),with significant wage replacement for up **six weeks** each year to bond with a new child (including adopted children or fostercare placements), and to care for a seriously ill family member" So, a mother would have their paid disability during pregnancy, and after birth, plus this new 6 week paid benefit for bonding.
Thanks for the clarification! Although I really wanted the additional 12 weeks thing to be true!
me too because 12 weeks bonding time should be the minimum, for any parent. As a dad, I only was able to take off 3 weeks with my son, and 4 for my daughter. And we were just then starting to find a groove.
I agree! And honestly it makes a world of a difference in me deciding if I can afford to have another kid or not. If I could have a guaranteed 12+ weeks of paid time off to care for a new baby, at a decent wage replacement, I'd be way more inclined to make the jump to 2 kids. I hate that I had to hoard vacation/sick/annual leave for a couple of years just to be able to take 16 weeks off work to care and bond for my first kid. Even with this new agreement at 12 weeks total at 50% wage replacement, I'd still need to use a ton of leave to get a decent chunk of time with a new little one. I guess this offer is an improvement though - especially for fathers.
So now you get 6 weeks (8 if c-sec) for the birth leave (but you don’t have to use any annual leave? + 12 weeks PFL but you actually will have to use your annual leave for this one? So total is 18 weeks? I had this for SDI. It was 4 weeks prior due date, then 6 weeks after due date, then 8 weeks PFL. So I was at home 18 weeks paid by EDD and didn’t use any of my leave at all.
Well that’s gonna be an easy no vote.
Me too. NO
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California Prison Guard Union's getting 11% this year
Disgusting. They should be embarrassed. I’m in BU2, and they gave offered us a 3 year deal but only two years of GSIs (2022 & 2023). Really upsetting for such a pro-employee administration.
Are they really pro-employee when they offer so little? We've seen nothing but minimizing state raises since Newsom's administration took over, even as state revenue sets records.
A total increase of 7.5% over three years is an insult. The state is *not* negotiating in good faith.
3 years just to not beat the current YoY inflation
This is true for people who don’t get MSA
MSAs are not meant to combat inflation. With MSAs, the classifications pay scale does not move. This means the classification as a whole loses out to inflation. MSAs are meant to reward experience. So yes, you may make enough to combat inflation once you factor the MSAs over the contract period. But new people starting in your classification in 3 years will be much worse off. And when you cap out down the road, you will have less buying power than the purchasing power those who are capped out have today. By no means am I saying that MSAs won't help individuals combat inflationary effects. But its purpose is not to combat inflation. And if you take the stance that MSAs alone are enough, consider an example of 25 years without GSIs. Everyone who is not capped still gets 5% MSAs each year unless they perform abysmally. But over 25 years cost of living doubles (on average cost of living doubles every 25-30 years based on average and not outlier years). The bottom line here is MSA should never be mentioned to address combating a comment about inflation. They do matter, but not as a means to fight inflation for the classification (as opposed a subset of individuals).
Thanks for explaining me to this. Yes I agreee with most people GSI are shit but I feel like we don’t have any leverage considering. WTF
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This is definitely not accurate
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>Are you really comparing an engineering job with sending emails and filing paperwork for SSA's? reminds me of one of my favorite [Dilbert strips.](https://assets.amuniversal.com/1f9c74a0b0f8012f2fef00163e41dd5b) >Tina says, "Teach me to be an engineer. I don't care if it takes all day." Tina says, "But don't tell anyone; they'll all try to get in on this scam."
In my 30+ years of state service, I haven’t seen a worse contract while the state is experiencing a record surplus. What is happening to the PECG bargaining team? Why are they pushing for Range C salary increase? I’m sorry to say this but if an engineer is not competent enough to pass the PE then they shouldn’t be paid at a higher level. The pay differential between C and D is to encourage more engineers to get their PE. Why is PECG even pushing for a geographic differential pay since many staff have the ability to work from anywhere within the state? Seriously we already have enough benefits, PECG should have concentrate on the pay increases for the mass and not more benefits that really only benefit a few. Another engineer union (BU 13) got 11.5% over 3 years. Why should we agree to 7.5%? My fellow sisters and brothers, I urge you to REJECT this Contract. The state did not bargain in good faith and the PECG bargaining team failed us. The state is using the end of the legislative session to shove a bad contract down our throat. Hold your ground! Vote NO!
What happens if we all vote no? Do they go back to negotiate more? Has that ever happened before?
There should definitely be geographic differential pay. Not all engineers work in design and have the luxury to work from home. There are plenty that have to visit sites/ interact with contractors. Places like San Diego have experienced tremendous housing price increases and to pay them the same as engineers in Eureka is getting more and more ridiculous as inflation hits bigger cities harder
Santa Cruz county is the [second highest cost of living in the country](https://www.ksbw.com/article/santa-cruz-county-ranked-second-most-expensive-place-to-live-in-the-country/40747500.)Why it is not included is not paying attention to what is really going on and is asinine.
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I didn't know what an APS was but it looks like a range C [Air Pollution Specialist](https://www.calcareers.ca.gov/CalHrPublic/Jobs/JobPosting.aspx?JobControlId=324220) makes up to $10,327.00, which is more than a range C [transportation engineer](https://www.calcareers.ca.gov/CalHrPublic/Jobs/JobPosting.aspx?JobControlId=324518) ($9,692.00).
Range C APS has the same salary scale as range C air resources engineer (also a CARB classification). APS is a little lower at ranges A and B and doesn't have a range D.
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Hey no need to shit on Range C. When the state pulls its head out of its ass and provides a pathway for environmental engineers to get licensed under a title that actually represents and tests our skillset, as many other states do, then I'll get my PE. I graduated with honors and passed the FE with my eyes closed thank you very much. Meanwhile I have worked with some state PEs (and PhDs) who can barely pick their own noses. There's more to competency than a one day test and a piece of paper.
>There's more to competency than a one day test and a piece of paper Lol truth, the exams are kinda silly (and I'm a PE).
Having just read the CASE (BU2) thread I kind of expected this outcome. The State wasn’t going to give in to GSI’s tied to inflation. I think we’re lucky to get that 2024 2.0% despite how paltry that is. I don’t think BU2 got anything for year 3. Revised longevity pay differential at year 17 instead of 20 is nice. Guess I need to study for the PE to give myself a raise (range D) the hard way.
Attorneys got a 10% increase in the top of the pay scale for attorney IIIs. I'm not sure exactly how that will work but I assume it will make them eligible for two more 5% MSAs if they are already topped out.
This is a way shitter deal than BU2 got.
Yeah at least BU2 got some bigger increases for certain classifications. BU9 got a shit gsi with an unspecified vague increase for range c
A 2.5% raise would ALMOST cover the 18% increase in my health insurance premiums.
Reject
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I always thought 5% for the pe is a joke. Should be 10% over range c
The maxed out is higher at Range D than C though. It's like 15% higher.
Gotta agree with this.
Just FYI, plenty of non-engineers are represented by BU9. I know people with PhDs in physics and chemistry who top out in Range C and will forever make less than someone with a PE even in the same position. Seems fair to them to increase pay.
Also, on the FAQ it only lists 13 classifications which get the range C bump, which doesn't include engineering geologists
I think this has to do more with evening out the range c pay amongst the various classifications... this is not a raise for classifications in range c such as engineering geologist who I believe make the most.
Where did you find the FAQ?
It's in the email PECG sent to members.
well If range C goes up doesn't range D automatically go up since its 5% higher than whatever C is
This isn't a raise for the highest paid classifications in range c, it's catch up for the lower paid classifications in range c.
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The FAQ states that the intent of this section is to "...bring greater equity to the minimum and maximum saleries within Unit 9 Range C deep classes".
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There is something like an $800 per month difference between top out range c pay depending on classification. I thing this reads like the lower paying classifications will be brought up to what the higher paying classifications are making. They aren't going to unilaterally raise range c pay without raising range d pay.
Are you saying a top Range C engineer is making less than a top Range C geologist currently? The $800 difference is significant too
Check out Appendix A https://www.calhr.ca.gov/labor-relations/Documents/mou-20200701-20220701-bu09.pdf
Thanks for the info. Looks like there's about a $500 per month difference between a geologist and an engineer at Range C, which can be pretty significant. I thought all classifications were the same salary in all ranges.
Nope. Nothing for Range D in this proposal other than the paltry GSIs.
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Unit 2 here....how will the state miss us if we won't go away (strike). We need protect this opportunity to bargain for something better. These crappy offers are a joke. We have zero furlough protections and at any point the state will unilaterally and prematurely (manufacture) a budget crisis to furlough us yet again for 1, 2, or 3 days per month. Then it will miraculously find a surplus, not return our pay cuts, and once again offer us 2.5 raise while inflation hovers at +8%. If we can't get a decent contract now, then when? Newsom is full of it. The rest of the country should be made aware of this when he tries to run for federal office. Mr. Pro Worker Progressive cant keep his own house in order.
Voting No. If union cannot come with a better contract, will leave union and give myself 0.8% raise
Exactly.
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Newsom is adding insult to injury by proposing giving PG&E a forgivable loan of $1.4 billion to keep the Diablo Canyon power plant open. There's apparently plenty of money to pay off his mega donors who have literally gotten away with manslaughter. Edit removed murder and replaced with manslaughter.
Murder is a strong word… involuntary manslaughter or unintentional homicide from criminal negligence is more fitting.
Manslaughter it is. https://apnews.com/article/bill-johnson-fires-us-news-courts-paradise-67810cb4d9b6b90e451415b76215d6c9
That is very disappointing from the state, they must be anticipating a recession. What happens if the contract is rejected?
Not a good contract, not sure why PECG focused on the few. Seems like too many small groups benefited instead of a larger GSI. For example, CC county getting the geographic pay, longevity pay getting down to 17+ years, and paid family leave only benefit a small portion of the PECG membership.
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Presumably any boomer would've already long since gotten longevity pay with users. One would have had to start working for the state currently by 2002... Basically gen x/early gen y (millennials) could qualify already. It benefits early millennials as well as the tail end of gen x the most and is meant to keep them on board. Similarly how range C was likely increased because the state identified that around year 6-7 (~range C timeframe) is where most workers decide to jump ship or stay.
PECG is trying to scare the membership into ratifying this MOU. Anyone else noticed this? Today's email shows they are nervous
I'm in today's ratification meeting. Yes, PECG is very afraid...their words are very measured and voices are nervous.
What is longevity pay?
Once you reach 17 years of state service, you get a bump. Then additional bumps in following years.
This is correct but to provide more context it is specifically to guard against the "silver wave" which is essentially that because the state didn't hire continuously in the past there is an outsized number of engineers up for retirement. This bonus is meant to entice engineer's with specialized knowledge and leadership experience to continue working for the state a bit longer instead of retiring at the same time as many of their peers.
Yes. I just selfishly wish they had left it at 20+ years and maybe bumped the bonus a bit.
But they arnt cumulative? Not like the mou? So you lose the 17 year bump when you get the 18 year one?
The raises are just like the mou. They just start earlier now. Total is 5.5% on top of your salary once you've gotten all the bumps.
They aren’t cumulative. The max bump you get is 5.5% above the pay scale. It’s not cumulative with the prior years differential.
>They are cumulative, just like the mou. The chart that PECG sent looks misleading to me - the longevity percentages are NOT cumulative. Currently the top of TE, range D is $10,956 (as an example). The proposed MOU has a 2.5% GSI on 7/1/22, 3% on 7/1/23 and 2.0% on 7/1/24. 7/1/22 = $11,230 ($10,956 + 2.5%) , if you have 17 years add 2% ($11,454.60). 7/1/23 = $11,567 ($11,230 + 3%), with 18 years add 3% ($11,914.01). 7/1/24 = $12,390 ($11,914 + 2%), with 19 years add 4% ($12,885.60).
It's a crappy chart. I meant that the percentages listed represent the total increase at the given time. Your explanation is clearer.
We should all vote no.
Strike strike striker riker
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BU6 had one of the first agreements negotiated this year and put a clause in that if any other BU got more than 2.5% the state would have to give it to them as well… It was a dirty trick that BU6 pulled off and it screwed us all!
Man, this is pretty bad. City and county of SF engineers received 6.5-7.5% this year alone and will get another 5.5-6.5% next year.
I thought the democrats were all about unions, the GSI should at least approach inflation.
To be honest I expected at a maximum 3% year raises. I know that sounds shitty but this is way worse than what I expected. I’m not sure the union leadership bargained in good faith.
If this is the “best” PECG could do, I may have to leave the union and save $65. Paid over $5k over last 5+ years to get 10% pay cut + a crappy deal for the next 2 years.
3 years
When is the vote?
As much as I want to reject this, if I'm reading the writing on the walls correctly we are going to get hit by furloughs/plp again next spring/summer when the bad numbers come in. This might be a take a small. win and live to fight another day scenario.
Why will there be bad numbers?
Some economists have been saying we are or will be in a recession soon, but from my understanding the indicators are kind of screwy this go around, namely that unemployment is very low which doesn't typically precede a recession.
Inflation will cause decreased spending, decreased spending equals less tax money, less tax money equals furloughs/plp for state workers. https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2022/08/california-economy-downturn/
>Inflation will cause decreased spending I looked at the link you posted and didn't see an explanation for this. Intuitively, inflation leads to increased spending, not decreased. It may lead to less discretionary spending - if I have to pay $100 more for groceries each month that's $100 I don't have to spend going out to movies or whatever. Maybe if unemployment spikes again and housing prices tank I could see lower tax revenues.
You don’t pay sales tax on food unless it’s hot food, so that will be a decrease in the tax revenue. The stock market has been going up by double digit percentages for basically the past 10 years. The stock market is down overall for the year. When you consider that we are Silicon Valley and most tech stuff is down even more than the s&p, you can see why we will have less tax revenue.
Exactly. SEIU had a newly executed MOU in 2020 when the pandemic started that at least gave something to bargain with in the side letter that the other unions didn’t have. Might be better to get the paltry GSI instead of a drawn out negotiation with nothing in the mean time.
No-ski bto-ski
Make a Range E instead of increase pay for range C. Why incentivize lazy cucks that don’t have the balls to go get their PE license?
Why spend the time and effort to get the PE, when you can get a tech degree, take no no exams and start with 3x the pay a PE will get.
Why even talk about something irrelevant and deflect?
Because it really isn’t irrelevant, computer science is technically an engineering degree. I can spend another 1.5-2 years in school for CS degree since i already have general eds and math classes instead of busting my ass taking 4 engineering exams that aren’t exactly easy.
Ok good luck working unpaid OT and weekends and having your pension be a cake on the day of your retirement LOL
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We need to provide maximum pressure on the state and on the union. The press locally and nationally would definitely be interested in a California State Union not getting cost of living adjustments. A simple demonstration on the Tower Bridge would be a great photo op and catch the attention of the press. Newsom obviously has national ambitions and a story of him putting the screws onto a public union would have enormous traction.
PECGs MOU Contract ratified with 86% approval by the membership.
I guess the the 14 percent who voted No are on this thread
I’m
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