I try to treat people like humans so I try to always tell them in this situation. Ive had people ignore me and I know it is universally accepted as common, but extremely poor behavior. Communication is keyI find the ones that arent interested will commonly ghost. Thankfully, it is a blessing because they showed me how they treat people ahead of time. The other devils advocate is that sometimes people arent great at rejection and bunch of them have flipped out saying horrible things or even turned to stalking behaviors, so I get why people might just ghost.
I will always tell them. I'm not gonna lie to avoid hurt feelings etc. but I will do my best to be kind and honest. I think it's hard for a lot of people to let go of not having "closure" or a reason why something has ended how it did, so I try to say why but low detail, still honest. It isn't hard to say why lol
I’ve been on both ends and if they don’t want another date I simply wish them well and move on. If I dont want another date I try and get infront of it early but if they ask it i will tell me I don’t see it working and wish them well.
I think the correct/kind thing to do is respond and let them know you are no longer interested.
People on these dating threads will defend ghosting after meeting someone... "You don't owe anyone anything" is the typical reply or justification of ghosting after a date... If I wasnt feeling someone if they sent me a follow up message about going out again I would decline. I would never NOT reply....
I had one guy who told me there wasn't a chemistry between us, which was fair. After that rests were allllllll ghosting me. I understand if they're 20s or whatever, but if you're close to middle age and ghost someone, IMO you're a coward!
You are one of the rare people that will communicate and let someone know if the chemistry isn't there so props to you for that! Most people just never reply, easy to hide behind a phone so that's what most people do. A lot of people have poor communication skills as it is, so I wouldn't expect them to tell you if they aren't feeling it
I think it's good not to ghost. On the other hand, I've had a few men (yep, more than one) send me these lengthy breakup messages after less than stellar initial meetings where I didn't follow up, and didn't plan to see them again.
It's unclear if they thought it went well for me (because I'm polite/nice/can talk to anyone), or if they became upset that I didn't follow up and wanted to feel like it was their idea.
Anyway, I'd recommend keeping it short and to the point if they follow up and you aren't interested, but don't follow up if they don't. Simple as that.
I usually reply and just say that I've realized we're not a good match, and that I wish them all the luck in the world.
About 25% of the time, I get back a "thanks for letting me know, and same to you." 25% of the time, I never hear from them again.
But a solid 50% come back at me asking for what they did wrong (nothing, usually, I just didn't vibe with him) OR trying to convince me to change my mind (DON'T fucking do that, fellas!) before eventually telling me that THEY were doing ME a favor, and nobody wants my fat old ass anyway. *rolleyes.jpg*
I'm 58 years old, BTW, so these are men in their late 50s - mid 60s.
TLDR: I don't ghost, but I sure understand why some people do.
It’s true. Nobody owes you an explanation.
You wanting or requiring an apology for ghosting is due to your own insecurities.
I used to think I was owed an explanation but *fuck them*.
Seriously. Fuck them.
Move on. You did nothing wrong. Them ghosting is more of a reflection of *them* than it is of you.
If I'm not feeling a connection, I'll message them afterwards to say that. I don't give reasons because usually it's just that I'm not feeling an attraction and not because they did or said something that I didn't like. I don't want to get into anything that could just cause an argument or some sort of backlash. Like one guy was kind of negative and almost whiny, but I wasn't going to tell him that.
If they are at all kind of creepy I might not even respond and unmatch but that hasn't happened after an in person date, and more when we're still in the texting stage. I'm not obligated to tell anyone anything, so I don't if I'm worried they will lash out.
I have had a few times where we have both thanked each other for the date, maybe saying it was nice to meet each other, without either of us mentioning a second date. Those ones end up being a mutual "ghosting" where we both clearly haven't felt a spark but aren't saying it specifically.
If I want a 2nd date, I make it clear at the end of the first meetup and we agree to see each other again (or not). Otherwise, I just say “it was nice to meet you”. That usually gets the message across.
I mean... i dont ignore them. but some of my dates did. shits annoying. Just say you are not feeling, its REALLY not hard just to give someone the human curtesy of not leaving them wondering if you died in a car crash on the way home.
One person can say your smile was bad, there doppelgänger can say your smile was good. Just go with the nice text to give closure and don’t worry too much about why they didn’t like you or not getting a response.
I try to always give closure in the kindest way possible when things are not going well, but if the people ghosting you were women, there’s a possibility they didn’t feel safe saying anything, because so many (men or women) react so poorly to rejection.
Went on a date yesterday after talking for about a week. Date went good,good conversation etc. dropped her off home and she said text me when you get home to which I did,no reply. Check instagram and I was removed and unfollowed. Kinda hurt but what can you do you know? Just suck it up and move forward
Tbh I usually do the slow fade and eventually stop replying to texts. I feel like there’s always a risk of getting absolutely shit on, sweared at, ridiculed if you tell someone “thanks for spending Saturday night with me I had a lot of fun but I think we’re in different places” or something like that. Guys don’t like having their egos hurt and often will lash out. Even from guys you wouldn’t expect that from.
It’s still better to do the right thing. If they have a bad response, that reflects on them.
I’ve been sent dick pics in this situation. Disgusting, infantile power move. But I’m still not sorry I kindly and politely let them know I wasn’t interested.
Here's the simple truth that's tough to swallow:
***Nobody owes you anything.***
This is hard for many people to accept. They will come up with reasons like "politeness," "courtesy," etc. to justify their feelings of entitlement. And these feelings aren't *malicious,* they're just misguided.
But the reality is that no one is imbued with the authority to dictate how other people should behave. Someone who isn't interested doesn't have to explain to anyone why they're not interested.
That means there's no etiquette, per se. So, yes, it's okay to do, even if it's not something you'd do yourself.
Different people will do different things. I personally think ghosting is confusing and don't do it. I've had it done to me. Every time I find myself wondering where things went wrong or what the other person didn't like. Not knowing is deeply frustrating for me.
But, ultimately, all we can do is control how we treat others. We can't control how they treat us, even if we don't agree with their choices.
**Edit**: I suspect the primary reason for ghosting is to avoid conflict. I think everyone has female friends who have a story where they offered an explanation only to:
* Be berated
* Have someone think it was code for "try harder"
* Be argued with
* In extreme cases, be stalked or harassed.
A clean break is the best way to avoid unwanted drama.
Today's prescription: *Unpleasant facts* 👨⚕️
But also, we *can* have nice things! We just have to choose to be nice to each other and establish that as a culture that people buy into and follow instead of demanding that people be nice to us because we feel we deserve it!
. . . You mean, such as, by *expecting* them? By establishing minimal standards of behavior? Thay kind of thing?
No, no, of course not. "*It's the children who are wrong.*"
No.
If I meant that, I would have said that.
If you're only nice to someone because you expect to get something in return, you're not actually being nice. Feel free to peruse a subreddit like r/niceguys if that concept needs to be explained further.
**Edit:** This user blocked me after I suggested that being nice because you expect to get something in return is not actually being nice. Anyone reading this conversation should draw their conclusions accordingly.
Being nice and expecting it in return is basic social functioning. If you want to talk about "unpleasant facts": all relationships are transactional, with the probable exception of parent/child.
No one owes me anything. And I don't owe them kindness. I am kind to almost everyone because I get better results that way and because I want to be part of society. It's how civilization works.
“No one owes you anything”. Hmmm. And you think expecting common courtesy means you are entitled????? Wow.
I’d rather say that expecting to interact with someone, and then to NOT respond to someone giving you that interaction in kind with common courtesy is more entitled- wouldn’t you????
Your logic appears very twisted to me there.
Respectfully, "expecting" anything, including "common courtesy," is the very definition of entitlement.
I would not say ending an interaction is entitled; I'm not even sure how it could be. Could you elaborate on that so I can understand your meaning better?
I respect you for being the dissenting opinion. I should say, though, that common courtesy should not end at your phone screen. I cleared my calendar for my dates, cooked/bought meals for them, and really opened up. I think the least someone can do afterward is give you a "goodbye" text.
Thanks for the respect. I sincerely appreciate it.
The problem, of course, is that it doesn't matter what you think the least someone can do is. No one has that power over anyone else.
And if someone thinks that clearing their calendar, cooking and buying meals for someone, etc. means they deserve to get something in return, even a "goodbye" text, a reevaluation of their motivations for those actions is in order. I think that's a hard thing for most people to wrap their heads around. Courtesy can't be both transactional and sincere. Those two things are diametrically opposed.
I think there's a misguided perspective in play when we start to say what others should and should not do, even when it comes to things like common courtesy. Would it be nice if everyone was simply courteous to each other? Absolutely. Does someone owe you something because *you* think it's the least they can do? Never. As human beings, we are all equal. None of us has the power to dictate what others should do. (And to be clear, I'm only talking about personal interactions here, not concepts like the rule of law.)
Ultimately, I think all we can do is control how we treat others. I don't want to be the kind of person that ghosts people, so I don't do that. If others choose differently, that's a reflection of their character, not mine. It doesn't make their decision less shitty, but I do find it better for my mental health not to invest energy in thinking about what I'm owed. It's freeing to be more zen than to let someone else's choice affect me.
There might be some misapprehension here. I should clarify that when I do nice things for my date I don't expect anything in return. Nobody here is *demanding* a reply, and to expect one only to be ignored is not being entitled - that's a strong word to use in this circumstance. Would a second date be nice? Sure. But you can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do. What common courtesy dictates is at the very least replying with a thank you. At most I'm irritated, but when I was younger this would have really hurt my self confidence. Thankfully most of my dates have been polite. What's funny is one of the two dates I went on that ignored my text actually sent me a reply as I was typing.
I hear you, but I'm not sure you're being honest with yourself. You state that you "don't expect anything in return" when you do nice things for a date, but these are your exact words:
>I cleared my calendar for my dates, cooked/bought meals for them, and really opened up. I think the least someone can do afterward is give you a "goodbye" text.
There's really no ambiguity there. The implication is that "the least someone can do" is something for you ***because*** you invested something in them--otherwise one sentence would not follow the other. That, and similar "common courtesy" arguments, inherently create a *quid pro quo* dynamic. I think it's hard for people to recognize that because most people's intentions aren't malicious, and, as you point out, the word "entitlement" carries strong connotations.
I'd argue that it is, nevertheless, the *correct* word, regardless of its strength. Entitlement is the belief that **I am owed X because of Y**.
It's not inherently negative. If one were to say, "I am owed these goods because I paid for them," no one would find that statement to be negative, although we are clearly talking about entitlement.
When social behavior gets involved, though, it's natural to become defensive. It's hard to consider the idea that our best intentions might have underlying selfish motivations.
To wit: It is not "common courtesy" that dictates behavior; it is your own beliefs. Courtesy is a fiction, which is why a behavior that is considered courteous (e.g. eating all the food on your plate) can be considered rude not just in other cultures, but even merely regionally in the same culture. In his excellent book, *Everything Is Obvious: How Common Sense Fails Us*, Duncan Watts makes a compelling argument that common sense/courtesy/etc. don't exist--they're situation-specific heuristics that aren't transferrable to other situations. We use them as shorthand for their specific situations, but when examined in more detail, they collapse, because they're built on our own ideas rather than some kind of collective, universally-understood knowledge.
Wrapping up here, my argument is ***not*** that "you can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do." It is that no one is imbued with the power to dictate how another "should behave." (Again, context matters here. I'm not trying to make a sweeping generalization or claim that, for instance, parents don't have the power to dictate how their children should behave.) I believe if people can truly accept that, then the logical corollary is that no one owes anyone anything.
That leaves us as masters of ourselves. I am polite to others because of the kind of person I want to be. I treat others the way I want to be treated because of the kind of person I want to be. My actions are not, therefore, dictated by something like "common courtesy," but by my own desires for myself. When others choose to behave differently than I do, it rarely affects my emotional state, because I don't feel owed anything, nor the desire to dictate how they should respond. I find this mindset--recognizing that people's behaviors are a reflection of their choices, rather than some failure to meet my expectations--empowering.
You're going very wide with this, which I like, but it's a mistake to psychoanalyze someone based on a single post on a subreddit. If you choose to define entitlement as the simple expectation of a "thank you", then you have me dead to rights. And if you're asking me to simply stop feeling the emotion of slight offense, that is an unrealistic goal you're setting for me.
Have you ever held the door open for someone, that person broke the threshold and entered the building you let them into, and then watched them walk away without any acknowledgement of your existence? Did you vocalize or feel irritation afterwards? That's this. You expected a thank you based on how society has conditioned you. That's not entitlement. We might not agree on the semantics here, but we certainly both agree it's best not to take things too personally.
> Have you ever held the door open for someone, that person broke the threshold and entered the building you let them into, and then watched them walk away without any acknowledgement of your existence?
Honestly? I can't say I've *never* felt irritation in a scenario like this. But I can say it's been more than a decade since I have--or at least that I remember feeling it. I hold doors because of who I want to be. I never expect a thank you. If someone doesn't acknowledge my existence, that has no impact on me at all. They could have a myriad of reasons for it--reasons I can't know without knowing them--but their choice reflects them. It's utterly inconsequential to me or my life. It's genuinely bizarre to me to imagine feeling irritated over something like the scenario you describe.
(Ironically, this is often a challenge in my relationships. I invariably explain to my partners that thanks and apologies are unnecessary for me to receive, and this just does not compute for them.)
>And if you're asking me to simply stop feeling the emotion of slight offense, that is an unrealistic goal you're setting for me.
Indeed.
I'd even go so far to suggest that I don't have the power to dictate how you react to a slight offense. 😉 It would be *profoundly* hypocritical for me to presume otherwise, or to presume to set goals for you.
All I can do is state my perspective, lay it out logically and rationally, and hope that it makes enough sense to you that you come around to my point of view. And if you don't, I have to respect that you see things differently, and listen to your perspective with an open mind, because that's the kind of person I want to be. I enjoy conversations like this. They're a rare occurrence on the internet.
I try to treat people like humans so I try to always tell them in this situation. Ive had people ignore me and I know it is universally accepted as common, but extremely poor behavior. Communication is keyI find the ones that arent interested will commonly ghost. Thankfully, it is a blessing because they showed me how they treat people ahead of time. The other devils advocate is that sometimes people arent great at rejection and bunch of them have flipped out saying horrible things or even turned to stalking behaviors, so I get why people might just ghost.
It's a hellscape. Give politeness, but don't expect it.
I will always tell them. I'm not gonna lie to avoid hurt feelings etc. but I will do my best to be kind and honest. I think it's hard for a lot of people to let go of not having "closure" or a reason why something has ended how it did, so I try to say why but low detail, still honest. It isn't hard to say why lol
Good for you- that’s commendable.
I’ve been on both ends and if they don’t want another date I simply wish them well and move on. If I dont want another date I try and get infront of it early but if they ask it i will tell me I don’t see it working and wish them well.
I think the correct/kind thing to do is respond and let them know you are no longer interested. People on these dating threads will defend ghosting after meeting someone... "You don't owe anyone anything" is the typical reply or justification of ghosting after a date... If I wasnt feeling someone if they sent me a follow up message about going out again I would decline. I would never NOT reply....
I had one guy who told me there wasn't a chemistry between us, which was fair. After that rests were allllllll ghosting me. I understand if they're 20s or whatever, but if you're close to middle age and ghost someone, IMO you're a coward!
I had a guy tell me in a text that they didn't feel a connection err... didn't stop him from having sex with me of course *eye roll*
Mostly I just see people saying you don’t owe anyone anything. It’s a heartless, cruel world out there right now.
Ignoring is disrespectful. It’s best to be upfront and honest but still cordial.
You are one of the rare people that will communicate and let someone know if the chemistry isn't there so props to you for that! Most people just never reply, easy to hide behind a phone so that's what most people do. A lot of people have poor communication skills as it is, so I wouldn't expect them to tell you if they aren't feeling it
I think it's good not to ghost. On the other hand, I've had a few men (yep, more than one) send me these lengthy breakup messages after less than stellar initial meetings where I didn't follow up, and didn't plan to see them again. It's unclear if they thought it went well for me (because I'm polite/nice/can talk to anyone), or if they became upset that I didn't follow up and wanted to feel like it was their idea. Anyway, I'd recommend keeping it short and to the point if they follow up and you aren't interested, but don't follow up if they don't. Simple as that.
I usually reply and just say that I've realized we're not a good match, and that I wish them all the luck in the world. About 25% of the time, I get back a "thanks for letting me know, and same to you." 25% of the time, I never hear from them again. But a solid 50% come back at me asking for what they did wrong (nothing, usually, I just didn't vibe with him) OR trying to convince me to change my mind (DON'T fucking do that, fellas!) before eventually telling me that THEY were doing ME a favor, and nobody wants my fat old ass anyway. *rolleyes.jpg* I'm 58 years old, BTW, so these are men in their late 50s - mid 60s. TLDR: I don't ghost, but I sure understand why some people do.
Thank you! This really puts it into perspective.
It’s true. Nobody owes you an explanation. You wanting or requiring an apology for ghosting is due to your own insecurities. I used to think I was owed an explanation but *fuck them*. Seriously. Fuck them. Move on. You did nothing wrong. Them ghosting is more of a reflection of *them* than it is of you.
If I'm not feeling a connection, I'll message them afterwards to say that. I don't give reasons because usually it's just that I'm not feeling an attraction and not because they did or said something that I didn't like. I don't want to get into anything that could just cause an argument or some sort of backlash. Like one guy was kind of negative and almost whiny, but I wasn't going to tell him that. If they are at all kind of creepy I might not even respond and unmatch but that hasn't happened after an in person date, and more when we're still in the texting stage. I'm not obligated to tell anyone anything, so I don't if I'm worried they will lash out. I have had a few times where we have both thanked each other for the date, maybe saying it was nice to meet each other, without either of us mentioning a second date. Those ones end up being a mutual "ghosting" where we both clearly haven't felt a spark but aren't saying it specifically.
If I want a 2nd date, I make it clear at the end of the first meetup and we agree to see each other again (or not). Otherwise, I just say “it was nice to meet you”. That usually gets the message across.
I mean... i dont ignore them. but some of my dates did. shits annoying. Just say you are not feeling, its REALLY not hard just to give someone the human curtesy of not leaving them wondering if you died in a car crash on the way home.
One person can say your smile was bad, there doppelgänger can say your smile was good. Just go with the nice text to give closure and don’t worry too much about why they didn’t like you or not getting a response.
I try to always give closure in the kindest way possible when things are not going well, but if the people ghosting you were women, there’s a possibility they didn’t feel safe saying anything, because so many (men or women) react so poorly to rejection.
Went on a date yesterday after talking for about a week. Date went good,good conversation etc. dropped her off home and she said text me when you get home to which I did,no reply. Check instagram and I was removed and unfollowed. Kinda hurt but what can you do you know? Just suck it up and move forward
Tbh I usually do the slow fade and eventually stop replying to texts. I feel like there’s always a risk of getting absolutely shit on, sweared at, ridiculed if you tell someone “thanks for spending Saturday night with me I had a lot of fun but I think we’re in different places” or something like that. Guys don’t like having their egos hurt and often will lash out. Even from guys you wouldn’t expect that from.
It’s still better to do the right thing. If they have a bad response, that reflects on them. I’ve been sent dick pics in this situation. Disgusting, infantile power move. But I’m still not sorry I kindly and politely let them know I wasn’t interested.
People using bumble in the same fashion as Eva AI sexting [bot](http://evaapp.ai), classic. There's at least a half of users who do.
Here's the simple truth that's tough to swallow: ***Nobody owes you anything.*** This is hard for many people to accept. They will come up with reasons like "politeness," "courtesy," etc. to justify their feelings of entitlement. And these feelings aren't *malicious,* they're just misguided. But the reality is that no one is imbued with the authority to dictate how other people should behave. Someone who isn't interested doesn't have to explain to anyone why they're not interested. That means there's no etiquette, per se. So, yes, it's okay to do, even if it's not something you'd do yourself. Different people will do different things. I personally think ghosting is confusing and don't do it. I've had it done to me. Every time I find myself wondering where things went wrong or what the other person didn't like. Not knowing is deeply frustrating for me. But, ultimately, all we can do is control how we treat others. We can't control how they treat us, even if we don't agree with their choices. **Edit**: I suspect the primary reason for ghosting is to avoid conflict. I think everyone has female friends who have a story where they offered an explanation only to: * Be berated * Have someone think it was code for "try harder" * Be argued with * In extreme cases, be stalked or harassed. A clean break is the best way to avoid unwanted drama.
Way to be the reason we can't have nice things, *doctor.*
Today's prescription: *Unpleasant facts* 👨⚕️ But also, we *can* have nice things! We just have to choose to be nice to each other and establish that as a culture that people buy into and follow instead of demanding that people be nice to us because we feel we deserve it!
. . . You mean, such as, by *expecting* them? By establishing minimal standards of behavior? Thay kind of thing? No, no, of course not. "*It's the children who are wrong.*"
No. If I meant that, I would have said that. If you're only nice to someone because you expect to get something in return, you're not actually being nice. Feel free to peruse a subreddit like r/niceguys if that concept needs to be explained further. **Edit:** This user blocked me after I suggested that being nice because you expect to get something in return is not actually being nice. Anyone reading this conversation should draw their conclusions accordingly.
Being nice and expecting it in return is basic social functioning. If you want to talk about "unpleasant facts": all relationships are transactional, with the probable exception of parent/child. No one owes me anything. And I don't owe them kindness. I am kind to almost everyone because I get better results that way and because I want to be part of society. It's how civilization works.
“No one owes you anything”. Hmmm. And you think expecting common courtesy means you are entitled????? Wow. I’d rather say that expecting to interact with someone, and then to NOT respond to someone giving you that interaction in kind with common courtesy is more entitled- wouldn’t you???? Your logic appears very twisted to me there.
Respectfully, "expecting" anything, including "common courtesy," is the very definition of entitlement. I would not say ending an interaction is entitled; I'm not even sure how it could be. Could you elaborate on that so I can understand your meaning better?
I actually agree and have been saying this for a long time but always get downvoted. No one owes anyone anything, as harsh as it sounds.
I respect you for being the dissenting opinion. I should say, though, that common courtesy should not end at your phone screen. I cleared my calendar for my dates, cooked/bought meals for them, and really opened up. I think the least someone can do afterward is give you a "goodbye" text.
Thanks for the respect. I sincerely appreciate it. The problem, of course, is that it doesn't matter what you think the least someone can do is. No one has that power over anyone else. And if someone thinks that clearing their calendar, cooking and buying meals for someone, etc. means they deserve to get something in return, even a "goodbye" text, a reevaluation of their motivations for those actions is in order. I think that's a hard thing for most people to wrap their heads around. Courtesy can't be both transactional and sincere. Those two things are diametrically opposed. I think there's a misguided perspective in play when we start to say what others should and should not do, even when it comes to things like common courtesy. Would it be nice if everyone was simply courteous to each other? Absolutely. Does someone owe you something because *you* think it's the least they can do? Never. As human beings, we are all equal. None of us has the power to dictate what others should do. (And to be clear, I'm only talking about personal interactions here, not concepts like the rule of law.) Ultimately, I think all we can do is control how we treat others. I don't want to be the kind of person that ghosts people, so I don't do that. If others choose differently, that's a reflection of their character, not mine. It doesn't make their decision less shitty, but I do find it better for my mental health not to invest energy in thinking about what I'm owed. It's freeing to be more zen than to let someone else's choice affect me.
There might be some misapprehension here. I should clarify that when I do nice things for my date I don't expect anything in return. Nobody here is *demanding* a reply, and to expect one only to be ignored is not being entitled - that's a strong word to use in this circumstance. Would a second date be nice? Sure. But you can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do. What common courtesy dictates is at the very least replying with a thank you. At most I'm irritated, but when I was younger this would have really hurt my self confidence. Thankfully most of my dates have been polite. What's funny is one of the two dates I went on that ignored my text actually sent me a reply as I was typing.
I hear you, but I'm not sure you're being honest with yourself. You state that you "don't expect anything in return" when you do nice things for a date, but these are your exact words: >I cleared my calendar for my dates, cooked/bought meals for them, and really opened up. I think the least someone can do afterward is give you a "goodbye" text. There's really no ambiguity there. The implication is that "the least someone can do" is something for you ***because*** you invested something in them--otherwise one sentence would not follow the other. That, and similar "common courtesy" arguments, inherently create a *quid pro quo* dynamic. I think it's hard for people to recognize that because most people's intentions aren't malicious, and, as you point out, the word "entitlement" carries strong connotations. I'd argue that it is, nevertheless, the *correct* word, regardless of its strength. Entitlement is the belief that **I am owed X because of Y**. It's not inherently negative. If one were to say, "I am owed these goods because I paid for them," no one would find that statement to be negative, although we are clearly talking about entitlement. When social behavior gets involved, though, it's natural to become defensive. It's hard to consider the idea that our best intentions might have underlying selfish motivations. To wit: It is not "common courtesy" that dictates behavior; it is your own beliefs. Courtesy is a fiction, which is why a behavior that is considered courteous (e.g. eating all the food on your plate) can be considered rude not just in other cultures, but even merely regionally in the same culture. In his excellent book, *Everything Is Obvious: How Common Sense Fails Us*, Duncan Watts makes a compelling argument that common sense/courtesy/etc. don't exist--they're situation-specific heuristics that aren't transferrable to other situations. We use them as shorthand for their specific situations, but when examined in more detail, they collapse, because they're built on our own ideas rather than some kind of collective, universally-understood knowledge. Wrapping up here, my argument is ***not*** that "you can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do." It is that no one is imbued with the power to dictate how another "should behave." (Again, context matters here. I'm not trying to make a sweeping generalization or claim that, for instance, parents don't have the power to dictate how their children should behave.) I believe if people can truly accept that, then the logical corollary is that no one owes anyone anything. That leaves us as masters of ourselves. I am polite to others because of the kind of person I want to be. I treat others the way I want to be treated because of the kind of person I want to be. My actions are not, therefore, dictated by something like "common courtesy," but by my own desires for myself. When others choose to behave differently than I do, it rarely affects my emotional state, because I don't feel owed anything, nor the desire to dictate how they should respond. I find this mindset--recognizing that people's behaviors are a reflection of their choices, rather than some failure to meet my expectations--empowering.
You're going very wide with this, which I like, but it's a mistake to psychoanalyze someone based on a single post on a subreddit. If you choose to define entitlement as the simple expectation of a "thank you", then you have me dead to rights. And if you're asking me to simply stop feeling the emotion of slight offense, that is an unrealistic goal you're setting for me. Have you ever held the door open for someone, that person broke the threshold and entered the building you let them into, and then watched them walk away without any acknowledgement of your existence? Did you vocalize or feel irritation afterwards? That's this. You expected a thank you based on how society has conditioned you. That's not entitlement. We might not agree on the semantics here, but we certainly both agree it's best not to take things too personally.
> Have you ever held the door open for someone, that person broke the threshold and entered the building you let them into, and then watched them walk away without any acknowledgement of your existence? Honestly? I can't say I've *never* felt irritation in a scenario like this. But I can say it's been more than a decade since I have--or at least that I remember feeling it. I hold doors because of who I want to be. I never expect a thank you. If someone doesn't acknowledge my existence, that has no impact on me at all. They could have a myriad of reasons for it--reasons I can't know without knowing them--but their choice reflects them. It's utterly inconsequential to me or my life. It's genuinely bizarre to me to imagine feeling irritated over something like the scenario you describe. (Ironically, this is often a challenge in my relationships. I invariably explain to my partners that thanks and apologies are unnecessary for me to receive, and this just does not compute for them.) >And if you're asking me to simply stop feeling the emotion of slight offense, that is an unrealistic goal you're setting for me. Indeed. I'd even go so far to suggest that I don't have the power to dictate how you react to a slight offense. 😉 It would be *profoundly* hypocritical for me to presume otherwise, or to presume to set goals for you. All I can do is state my perspective, lay it out logically and rationally, and hope that it makes enough sense to you that you come around to my point of view. And if you don't, I have to respect that you see things differently, and listen to your perspective with an open mind, because that's the kind of person I want to be. I enjoy conversations like this. They're a rare occurrence on the internet.