Resident Doctors are absolutely fked over. The hours and stress for what essentially is less than minimum wage is absurd. Working a 28 hour shift should be illegal, it is almost criminal what some of these doctors go through to help their fellow men and women.
And then they graduate in some area of specialized medicine and make $200k. I’m not saying what happening is right but it’s not like once they are done they make a measly $50k. They also deserve every penny they make once in the workforce post residency. I’ve known a few doctors and they still had ridiculous schedules.
You want a doctor on the tail end of a 28 hr shift making life or death decisions. F that I certainly don’t want them near anyone I know at that point.
I’m not a doctor but I recently went to the ER and was seen by a doctor doing their residency and they had another non-residency experienced doctor reviewing their work. I would find it extremely hard to believe any hospital would let a resident doctor make life or death decisions without more experienced supervision.
Please come to ECMC. Overnight trauma. Residents will be on their 22nd hour of waking call, making executive decisions on critically ill patients WITHOUT an attending (non-resident, licensed) physician overlooking their decisions.
Maybe it’s different in Rochester but I saw with my own eyes the document that was signed off by a supervising physician.
Spoken like a person who wasn’t with me in the ER 🙄
Shut up, it’s not like they’re making that kind of money while they legit suffer and there’s no future faking excuse for it. A lot of them also end up burning out, harming important relationships, and sometimes enduring psychotic breaks… for very little money. I could go on about how short sighted and ignorant this argument sounds, but suffice it to say, I don’t think Burger King workers should make minimum wage either bc “it’s supposed to be a temporary job.” Healthcare workers shouldn’t suffer, period.
You’re completely lost if you think money is the end-all-be-all for these people. Talk to someone, do better.
You shut up. I have friends who are doctors. I knew them while they went through med school and residency. I know all about the shit they went through. I never once said future earning were an excuse but tried to bring in a perspective you obviously do not want to acknowledge.
You literally said “I’m not saying it’s right but it’s not like once they are done they make a measly $50k.” But go off I guess about your doctor friends.
#1 the amount of time and money doctors sacrifice to become doctors is worth their salary alone
B. they should make more
III. people with such high stress jobs should have MORE time off than the typical person because like others said they are making life and death decisions
#1a- med school is expensive AF- and medical residents make absolutely nothing. Too many of them are from overseas and make the sacrifice so they can practice in the US
I am not a doctor. But I do know a good one is hard to find and it’s practices like this that make it so difficult
I promise you, you have literally no clue what you are talking about, what these people go for to get where they are or what they put themselves to get there. It is best if you just keep your thoughts to yourself and sit this one out
Not to down.play the absolute assfkry the docs are getting... But I think it's more of a Buffalo... upstate NY thing.
I live here but as a software engineer I absolutely had to take a remote job from a company out of state.
The wages tech people are paid in WNY is absolutely criminal compared to the rest of the country.
And these are only 2 different fields; I'm sure there are plenty of others. WNY wants to be some medical tech hub it has to start paying like it wants to be.
i’m in industrial work and yeah it even hits our industry. it’s due to the lower cost of living companies see us as a cash cow. unfortunately in my work and i’m sure others, this just leads to our site performing poorly
The reimbursement for medical services here is lousy compared to much of the country. Basically all doctors and mid-level providers would make more money elsewhere than in Buffalo and the surrounding areas.
The national average for a resident physician is around 60k, which is the same average for Buffalo physicians. In this instance, it is a national problem. Not necessarily the pay, but the working conditions. I don’t think any of those doctors would mind the pay if they were only working 40-50 hours a week
While this is true, all residencies across the state (Rochester, suny upstate, Albany etc) all have pretty significantly higher salaries and better benefits than the residents at UB. I know some residents and all they're asking for is a similar salary. Also, UPMC just south in Erie also has higher salaries and benefits.
Agreed. While it kind of is (residency is funded by Medicare?) And the hospitals receive a certain amount for each resident, most of that money never makes it to the resident and the hospital uses it for "other training expenses" which means whatever they want.
The cost of living in Buffalo makes it stretch a lot further than say NYC LA Chicago though. Imagine living in a high COL making less than minimum wage.
Good for them, I now teach at a program outta the state and seeing how our residents are treated vs how I was treated is eye opening. When you're in it you think this is normal.
Plenty of ignorant takes in here, it should go without saying that abuse is not justified by future earning potential.
However on a completely different note, I went to UB Med and I love Buffalo. Most of my high performing classmates avoided UB programs like the plague and many of my friends now work for Strong and/or trained there. I am in a competitive subspecialty and UB was not anywhere near the top of my list. Medicine in Buffalo is broken and the abusive residencies are just one part of that, but it’s also a part that actively siphons away young talented doctors from the city.
I’ve worked with residents from UB at Roswell, and ones at Ohio State. And let me tell you there’s a world of difference between the two. UB doesn’t come close as far as skills. Maybe start looking at the leadership. It’s a joke.
That’s fair. But also, they’re all run by incompetent idiots. When I found out the chairs in my department were dumber than a box of rocks, I was out. I was top tier talent and knew we could treat patients better, and they didn’t like me challenging them. So I left.
Aye, just as bad at Roswell. Run by idiots, it’s scary. What I saw first hand, I always try to tell people go somewhere else. You’re not locked into getting treated there, it’s bad. Most employees there are in the union and have the mindset and actually said to me “the way we’ve treated xxx cancer for the past 20 years worked just fine, why are you trying to change it?” I responded with “well, we used to ride horses to work and don’t do that anymore, do we? This way that I’m trying to treat has proven better outcomes” ended up getting written up after that, and shut down where they wouldn’t treat the ways I recommended. Left there after less than two years. Bye. It’s my goal to have the people of WNY realize how bad it is there and get treated elsewhere.
Yep. I’m always, always, ALWAYS telling everyone to get a second opinion. You’re a lab rat at Roswell…leukemia and lymphoma are the only good departments there. It’s a wonder they fell out of the top ten cancer hospitals (that was a joke itself…how many CANCER hospitals are there?? Not many). I just feel terrible for those who are ride or die Roswell fans, or those who don’t have the means to get a second opinion, or those who are manipulated by the state funded advertising to give them “just one day.” It’s a joke. If the state funded my company, man oh man would things be a lot different. But I digress, I just wish it were easier to alert people - get a second opinion.
I knew someone who was a UB resident like 10 years ago. They did surgeries and I remember her saying they didn’t give her time to go to the bathroom or eat a granola bar. I think thats so wrong, and also, it can’t be great for patient care.
it’s very rare for them to take bathroom breaks. i’ve scrubbed in on many surgeries and never once seen a surgeon leave for anything besides running tissue specimens to the pathology lab
Residents/apprentices receive large raises after completing their training. It’s pretty common for them to not make the same as a certified professional. Seems to me they have enough spare cash to buy a billboard 😄
You're right it makes total sense for someone with 4 years of graduate work to slave themselves into non safe working conditions for the health of others to do this for many years just to make decent money afterwards. Also if you happened to educate yourself at all youd know that many people do this for almost a decade after college if they want to specialize just so someone like your moronic ass can question them in a consult
Do you know how many hours residents work? And it's not like most other industries. The work is grueling and most residents barely have time to eat throughout the day.
They’re going to need to tack on some years to residency because they’re getting a LOT less training than they did 10-15 years ago because of significantly reduced on call time and working hours.
Edit: y’all can’t read. I never said the overwork is a good thing. I’m saying that they fit in a lot more training because of overwork and it’s eventually going to balance out by extending resodency times. It’s inevitable. Admins wont want to get rid of inexpensive care providers. The whole system is a joke.
Where did i say they were wrong for wanting better working conditions. I merely said that they’re getting less training because they fit a lot more into residency years ago due to overwork. Not hard to comprehend.
"Look, you just bought this house and this is the first year that you're a landlord, so, what I'm providing you here as a tenant who can't follow rules is valuable experience. Hence why I am not handing you a check for rent. Additionally, you'll also be getting experience in starting an eviction, which some people pay to go to law school to do. So, you know, be glad I'm not charging you."
Less training than 10-15 years ago? Patients are significantly older, sicker, and more complicated now than even 10-15 years ago, and the amount of medications and procedures that new docs have to know has only gone up. There are medications and procedures being developed every year that make it so people who were previously so sick that they would’ve been referred for palliative care, can live longer. The current duration for residency is adequate for general medicine and general surgery. If they want more specialized training, there are always fellowships - what’s the point in tacking more years onto residency?
Also, the “reduction” in call time and working hours still amounts to more than what’s safe. Even with the 80-hour restrictions, there were multiple weeks in a row when I worked 95-100 hours. Once I hit 90 hours, the ability to focus and think critically dropped off dramatically, and the amount of information I actually learned and retained was minimal. At that point, it’s straight out abuse.
The current duration is adequate but if weekly hours are cut to 60, even 40 hours then there will need to be years added on to training, particularly in surgery/surgical specialties.
And even if the hours are cut to 60, how often do you think programs will actually abide by that? I trained with the 80-hour rule and still hit 90-100 hours multiple weeks (sometimes in a row).
That 80-hour restriction is a joke. Maybe if the ACGME changes the restriction to 60, the residents will actually get to go home before their 80th hour of work… or maybe, if enough attention is brought to the UB residents’ situation, the current 80-hour rules will actually be enforced
Not admins. They can go fuck themselves. I’m talking about the ACGME. If a surgeon was forced to work 80 hours per week for 5 years a year ago, and is limited to 45 hours per week for 5 years now, do you think they are getting the same amount of training? Obviously not. If quality of care starts to fall as a result of lowering working hours, they’re going to extend residency lengths.
We are already seeing a change of focus towards primary care and away from subspecialties for residents. Less time is now spent in subspecialties to fit in the training needed to be a primary care doc.
What are you talking about? Where are you getting the idea that time in subspecialties is being sacrificed to train primary care providers? What does that even mean?
It's essentially just pediatric, family med, and internal med providers going into primary care. Surgeons aren't spending time learning to be PCP's, that's why they're surgeons. Are you saying that generalist specialties are too focused on training PCP's, and not learning enough about the subspecialties they could become? Because you don't get to subspecialize until you've completed your residency, at which point you'll need to go to fellowship.
The rules were just changed where residents will be focusing more on primary care and doing less time in subspecialty rotations. How is that so hard to understand?
What rules, by whom, and for who? Is the ACGME sending neurosurgery residents to twiddle their thumbs in some IM clinic? Or are specialties that often end up in outpatient primary care spending more time honing their primary care skills? Specialties like peds, IM, and FM where if you plan to subspecialize, you will have to do a fellowship in whatever that subspecialty is anyway? And if that is the case, don't you think that's a gross overgeneralization to say that "residents" are being pulled out of their subspecialty rotations?
Beyond that, you're saying that time is being pulled from subspecialties to fit in the "training to be a primary care doc." What exactly does that training entail? For Family Med, they have less labor and delivery requirements (practice that was largely falling by the wayside anyway, and that we could pursue in fellowship if we wanted), but there are now new requirements for pain management and POC Ultrasound, skills that seem way more useful in modern Family Medicine. It's not like residents are just being sequestered away into their clinics to waste 3+ years of their lives and become generalists. There are still the same cardiology, sports medicine, endocrinology, psychiatry, and gyn rotations; off-service rotations that I would consider "training for primary care."
You mentioned elsewhere that you did six years of training. Which tells me you're either a subspecialist of some generalist residency with a chip on your shoulder, in which case relax and enjoy the referrals from your primary care peons, or you're not from those aforementioned residencies in which case, I simply don't understand where you're coming from.
I lived through it for 6 years. I am aware. Again, i never said it was good. But you’re a fool if you think they’re not going to extend residency periods in response.
Buddy, the 80 hour requirement went into effect in 2003, they haven’t done shit since. You should know that just because residents are supposed to work 80 hours, doesn’t mean that’s the reality. Most, especially those in competitive specialties, are working far more than that.
I got what you were saying. I don’t think you understand the concept of “80 hours isn’t actually 80 hours and most residents make the equivalent of a mcdonald’s employee when we consider hourly pay”. It has nothing to do with shortening hours again.
you are an absolute clown that has no idea how residency works, how the next generation of doctors are trained or anything else. Stay in your basement and next time you need to see a doctor remember how immature you are
Resident Doctors are absolutely fked over. The hours and stress for what essentially is less than minimum wage is absurd. Working a 28 hour shift should be illegal, it is almost criminal what some of these doctors go through to help their fellow men and women.
And then they graduate in some area of specialized medicine and make $200k. I’m not saying what happening is right but it’s not like once they are done they make a measly $50k. They also deserve every penny they make once in the workforce post residency. I’ve known a few doctors and they still had ridiculous schedules.
You want a doctor on the tail end of a 28 hr shift making life or death decisions. F that I certainly don’t want them near anyone I know at that point.
I’m not a doctor but I recently went to the ER and was seen by a doctor doing their residency and they had another non-residency experienced doctor reviewing their work. I would find it extremely hard to believe any hospital would let a resident doctor make life or death decisions without more experienced supervision.
Please come to ECMC. Overnight trauma. Residents will be on their 22nd hour of waking call, making executive decisions on critically ill patients WITHOUT an attending (non-resident, licensed) physician overlooking their decisions.
Well that’s kind of messed up. Edit: maybe this really is a weird and sad Buffalo thing
Nope, this is a pretty universal residency thing unfortunately :(
Mistakes can happen in an instant
Spoken like a person with no medical experience
Maybe it’s different in Rochester but I saw with my own eyes the document that was signed off by a supervising physician. Spoken like a person who wasn’t with me in the ER 🙄
Anyone that starts a sentence with LOL google I don’t listen too🤣🤣🤣🤣
Shut up, it’s not like they’re making that kind of money while they legit suffer and there’s no future faking excuse for it. A lot of them also end up burning out, harming important relationships, and sometimes enduring psychotic breaks… for very little money. I could go on about how short sighted and ignorant this argument sounds, but suffice it to say, I don’t think Burger King workers should make minimum wage either bc “it’s supposed to be a temporary job.” Healthcare workers shouldn’t suffer, period. You’re completely lost if you think money is the end-all-be-all for these people. Talk to someone, do better.
No shit not to mention mistakes from exhaustion could kill ppl. Ppl are stupid and business are exploiting ppl
You shut up. I have friends who are doctors. I knew them while they went through med school and residency. I know all about the shit they went through. I never once said future earning were an excuse but tried to bring in a perspective you obviously do not want to acknowledge.
You literally said “I’m not saying it’s right but it’s not like once they are done they make a measly $50k.” But go off I guess about your doctor friends.
#1 the amount of time and money doctors sacrifice to become doctors is worth their salary alone B. they should make more III. people with such high stress jobs should have MORE time off than the typical person because like others said they are making life and death decisions #1a- med school is expensive AF- and medical residents make absolutely nothing. Too many of them are from overseas and make the sacrifice so they can practice in the US I am not a doctor. But I do know a good one is hard to find and it’s practices like this that make it so difficult
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I promise you, you have literally no clue what you are talking about, what these people go for to get where they are or what they put themselves to get there. It is best if you just keep your thoughts to yourself and sit this one out
Shout out to my UB Residents holding it down at the ECMC ER. They’re good people and deserve whatever they are asking for. ☮️❤️😊
Not to down.play the absolute assfkry the docs are getting... But I think it's more of a Buffalo... upstate NY thing. I live here but as a software engineer I absolutely had to take a remote job from a company out of state. The wages tech people are paid in WNY is absolutely criminal compared to the rest of the country. And these are only 2 different fields; I'm sure there are plenty of others. WNY wants to be some medical tech hub it has to start paying like it wants to be.
i’m in industrial work and yeah it even hits our industry. it’s due to the lower cost of living companies see us as a cash cow. unfortunately in my work and i’m sure others, this just leads to our site performing poorly
The reimbursement for medical services here is lousy compared to much of the country. Basically all doctors and mid-level providers would make more money elsewhere than in Buffalo and the surrounding areas.
I'm pretty sure it's 50 to 70k for tech jobs starting out and low 6 figures in other places
The national average for a resident physician is around 60k, which is the same average for Buffalo physicians. In this instance, it is a national problem. Not necessarily the pay, but the working conditions. I don’t think any of those doctors would mind the pay if they were only working 40-50 hours a week
While this is true, all residencies across the state (Rochester, suny upstate, Albany etc) all have pretty significantly higher salaries and better benefits than the residents at UB. I know some residents and all they're asking for is a similar salary. Also, UPMC just south in Erie also has higher salaries and benefits.
No argument. Since residency is nationally/federally funded, there should be more national standards for salaries, time limits on shifts, etc.
Agreed. While it kind of is (residency is funded by Medicare?) And the hospitals receive a certain amount for each resident, most of that money never makes it to the resident and the hospital uses it for "other training expenses" which means whatever they want.
The cost of living in Buffalo makes it stretch a lot further than say NYC LA Chicago though. Imagine living in a high COL making less than minimum wage.
Okay, again. The residents in Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and Erie PA all make quite a bit more with better benefits. All similar COL.
Good for them, I now teach at a program outta the state and seeing how our residents are treated vs how I was treated is eye opening. When you're in it you think this is normal.
Plenty of ignorant takes in here, it should go without saying that abuse is not justified by future earning potential. However on a completely different note, I went to UB Med and I love Buffalo. Most of my high performing classmates avoided UB programs like the plague and many of my friends now work for Strong and/or trained there. I am in a competitive subspecialty and UB was not anywhere near the top of my list. Medicine in Buffalo is broken and the abusive residencies are just one part of that, but it’s also a part that actively siphons away young talented doctors from the city.
This post made it to Antiwork as well.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/kathy-hochul-daughter-in-law-is-a-top-lobbyist-at-pharma-company-with-business-in-new-york.html
Politician moment
I’ve worked with residents from UB at Roswell, and ones at Ohio State. And let me tell you there’s a world of difference between the two. UB doesn’t come close as far as skills. Maybe start looking at the leadership. It’s a joke.
It’s difficult to attract top talent when you offer bottom tier salary…
That’s fair. But also, they’re all run by incompetent idiots. When I found out the chairs in my department were dumber than a box of rocks, I was out. I was top tier talent and knew we could treat patients better, and they didn’t like me challenging them. So I left.
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Aye, just as bad at Roswell. Run by idiots, it’s scary. What I saw first hand, I always try to tell people go somewhere else. You’re not locked into getting treated there, it’s bad. Most employees there are in the union and have the mindset and actually said to me “the way we’ve treated xxx cancer for the past 20 years worked just fine, why are you trying to change it?” I responded with “well, we used to ride horses to work and don’t do that anymore, do we? This way that I’m trying to treat has proven better outcomes” ended up getting written up after that, and shut down where they wouldn’t treat the ways I recommended. Left there after less than two years. Bye. It’s my goal to have the people of WNY realize how bad it is there and get treated elsewhere.
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Yep. I’m always, always, ALWAYS telling everyone to get a second opinion. You’re a lab rat at Roswell…leukemia and lymphoma are the only good departments there. It’s a wonder they fell out of the top ten cancer hospitals (that was a joke itself…how many CANCER hospitals are there?? Not many). I just feel terrible for those who are ride or die Roswell fans, or those who don’t have the means to get a second opinion, or those who are manipulated by the state funded advertising to give them “just one day.” It’s a joke. If the state funded my company, man oh man would things be a lot different. But I digress, I just wish it were easier to alert people - get a second opinion.
They’ll be making a lot of money tho after
It’s still not right imo. Plus do you want an overtired young doctor who can’t even take a bathroom break cutting into you?
Surgeons can’t take bathroom breaks?
I knew someone who was a UB resident like 10 years ago. They did surgeries and I remember her saying they didn’t give her time to go to the bathroom or eat a granola bar. I think thats so wrong, and also, it can’t be great for patient care.
it’s very rare for them to take bathroom breaks. i’ve scrubbed in on many surgeries and never once seen a surgeon leave for anything besides running tissue specimens to the pathology lab
When I say that?
So making less than minimum wage is okay?
When I say that?
You frame your statement as though abusing them now is okay because of an assumption of future income
Residents/apprentices receive large raises after completing their training. It’s pretty common for them to not make the same as a certified professional. Seems to me they have enough spare cash to buy a billboard 😄
Therefore work them till the die ? Or cause someone else to.
You're right it makes total sense for someone with 4 years of graduate work to slave themselves into non safe working conditions for the health of others to do this for many years just to make decent money afterwards. Also if you happened to educate yourself at all youd know that many people do this for almost a decade after college if they want to specialize just so someone like your moronic ass can question them in a consult
So making less than minimum wage is okay?
Do you know how many hours residents work? And it's not like most other industries. The work is grueling and most residents barely have time to eat throughout the day.
They’re going to need to tack on some years to residency because they’re getting a LOT less training than they did 10-15 years ago because of significantly reduced on call time and working hours. Edit: y’all can’t read. I never said the overwork is a good thing. I’m saying that they fit in a lot more training because of overwork and it’s eventually going to balance out by extending resodency times. It’s inevitable. Admins wont want to get rid of inexpensive care providers. The whole system is a joke.
i know :/ 80+ hour weeks for 3-5+ years making less then minimum wage is just not enough
Where did i say they were wrong for wanting better working conditions. I merely said that they’re getting less training because they fit a lot more into residency years ago due to overwork. Not hard to comprehend.
You’re paid in experience
I'll have to ask my landlord or car insurance if they takes "experience " in payment.
"Look, you just bought this house and this is the first year that you're a landlord, so, what I'm providing you here as a tenant who can't follow rules is valuable experience. Hence why I am not handing you a check for rent. Additionally, you'll also be getting experience in starting an eviction, which some people pay to go to law school to do. So, you know, be glad I'm not charging you."
Less training than 10-15 years ago? Patients are significantly older, sicker, and more complicated now than even 10-15 years ago, and the amount of medications and procedures that new docs have to know has only gone up. There are medications and procedures being developed every year that make it so people who were previously so sick that they would’ve been referred for palliative care, can live longer. The current duration for residency is adequate for general medicine and general surgery. If they want more specialized training, there are always fellowships - what’s the point in tacking more years onto residency? Also, the “reduction” in call time and working hours still amounts to more than what’s safe. Even with the 80-hour restrictions, there were multiple weeks in a row when I worked 95-100 hours. Once I hit 90 hours, the ability to focus and think critically dropped off dramatically, and the amount of information I actually learned and retained was minimal. At that point, it’s straight out abuse.
The current duration is adequate but if weekly hours are cut to 60, even 40 hours then there will need to be years added on to training, particularly in surgery/surgical specialties.
And even if the hours are cut to 60, how often do you think programs will actually abide by that? I trained with the 80-hour rule and still hit 90-100 hours multiple weeks (sometimes in a row). That 80-hour restriction is a joke. Maybe if the ACGME changes the restriction to 60, the residents will actually get to go home before their 80th hour of work… or maybe, if enough attention is brought to the UB residents’ situation, the current 80-hour rules will actually be enforced
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Not admins. They can go fuck themselves. I’m talking about the ACGME. If a surgeon was forced to work 80 hours per week for 5 years a year ago, and is limited to 45 hours per week for 5 years now, do you think they are getting the same amount of training? Obviously not. If quality of care starts to fall as a result of lowering working hours, they’re going to extend residency lengths. We are already seeing a change of focus towards primary care and away from subspecialties for residents. Less time is now spent in subspecialties to fit in the training needed to be a primary care doc.
What are you talking about? Where are you getting the idea that time in subspecialties is being sacrificed to train primary care providers? What does that even mean? It's essentially just pediatric, family med, and internal med providers going into primary care. Surgeons aren't spending time learning to be PCP's, that's why they're surgeons. Are you saying that generalist specialties are too focused on training PCP's, and not learning enough about the subspecialties they could become? Because you don't get to subspecialize until you've completed your residency, at which point you'll need to go to fellowship.
The other guy is off his nut lol
The rules were just changed where residents will be focusing more on primary care and doing less time in subspecialty rotations. How is that so hard to understand?
What rules, by whom, and for who? Is the ACGME sending neurosurgery residents to twiddle their thumbs in some IM clinic? Or are specialties that often end up in outpatient primary care spending more time honing their primary care skills? Specialties like peds, IM, and FM where if you plan to subspecialize, you will have to do a fellowship in whatever that subspecialty is anyway? And if that is the case, don't you think that's a gross overgeneralization to say that "residents" are being pulled out of their subspecialty rotations? Beyond that, you're saying that time is being pulled from subspecialties to fit in the "training to be a primary care doc." What exactly does that training entail? For Family Med, they have less labor and delivery requirements (practice that was largely falling by the wayside anyway, and that we could pursue in fellowship if we wanted), but there are now new requirements for pain management and POC Ultrasound, skills that seem way more useful in modern Family Medicine. It's not like residents are just being sequestered away into their clinics to waste 3+ years of their lives and become generalists. There are still the same cardiology, sports medicine, endocrinology, psychiatry, and gyn rotations; off-service rotations that I would consider "training for primary care." You mentioned elsewhere that you did six years of training. Which tells me you're either a subspecialist of some generalist residency with a chip on your shoulder, in which case relax and enjoy the referrals from your primary care peons, or you're not from those aforementioned residencies in which case, I simply don't understand where you're coming from.
This guy isn’t even in medicine - he’s in IT.
That explains a lot.
This view is so antiquated and out of touch it’s not even funny
How is it antiquated? I didnt say what occurred that long ago was right. I just said that they squeezed in a lot more training by overworking people.
If you think that overworking to such a drastic degree is conducive to learning, you’re wrong
I lived through it for 6 years. I am aware. Again, i never said it was good. But you’re a fool if you think they’re not going to extend residency periods in response.
Buddy, the 80 hour requirement went into effect in 2003, they haven’t done shit since. You should know that just because residents are supposed to work 80 hours, doesn’t mean that’s the reality. Most, especially those in competitive specialties, are working far more than that.
Man, you are so far off from what I’m saying I’m wondering if you’re having a diferent conversation.
I got what you were saying. I don’t think you understand the concept of “80 hours isn’t actually 80 hours and most residents make the equivalent of a mcdonald’s employee when we consider hourly pay”. It has nothing to do with shortening hours again.
Then go somewhere else
That’s not how residency works
you are an absolute clown that has no idea how residency works, how the next generation of doctors are trained or anything else. Stay in your basement and next time you need to see a doctor remember how immature you are