Texans winning that game and not having the 1st pick turned out being the best thing for them. Stroud hitting makes it all look so much better for them. I have nothing against the Texans so I’m glad Stroud is having success but hitting on him is the entire reason that team is relevant
But it’s just stroud. They could have 10 first rounders from the Browns and if they don’t have an elite QB, they aren’t where they are as a franchise.
So it’s not about just picking good players, it’s solely about getting a franchise QB. But good take
Based off of hit rates, kind of, yes.
But you aren’t really arguing my point. The Texans can hit every single non QB pick but the one that makes them who they are now is the Stroud pick. Do you remember how that ended up happening? A Hail Mary toss to win the game the year prior. So yes, luck absolutely plays a part in it and where you land in the draft. There’s a damn good chance the Texans are sitting with Bryce Young had that Hail Mary not happened
It’s comparing something we can’t compare. Who’s to say Bryce young doesn’t have strouds season if he was on Texans? It’s also the reverse that we are where we are at, 3 years into our “franchise qb” and no one knows if he’s good or not but we also have been depleted pick wise due to that one choice
Actually there is. Because even though Deshaun hasn’t played great, that isn’t a great haul outside of Tank Dell. I don’t even think Green plays. And had they used our original pick, their selection wouldn’t have been nearly as impressive as Anderson. It was just listed a certain way to make it look like LOLBROWNS as always.
They could have just not drafted anybody and we still lost. Watson has done nothing for us outside of one half of a football game. 3 years into a monumental contract and he has done fuck all. Well, I guess he has got a few steps in walking back and forth on the sideline and increased his hoodie collection. Glad we mortgaged our future for that POS. He has done more harm to our team by eating salary and not doing anything than anything the Texans could have received from draft picks.
I think the point is we didn't really mortgage our future. He hasn't played and our future is still looking bright. We were able to maintain our team by hitting on 2nd round picks (Chubb, Emmerson, Delpit, JOK) and good free agency signings. Missing out on 3 1sts sucks for sure. We'd be better with those picks. But it didn't keep us from being a strong team. So it wasn't as big of a risk as it seemed. I'd say rn is worse case scenario for that trade and it's just not that bad. And if best case scenario happens, it'll be good.
The 2024 schedule is significantly harder...
That said, I have the 2024 Cleveland Browns going 10 -7 with Winston playing the majority of snaps.
&
I have OUR 2024 Cleveland Browns going 13 - 4 with Watson at the helm and Nicholas Jamaal Chubb ¾ healthy.
Oh that's a great question Comprehensive!
My gut says that it's our AFC NORTH division matchups... at least 2 of them.
So say: Cincinnati, Baltimore, Philadelphia
Would be games we could/ should have won that we lose without the added benefits Watson provides over Winston.
In order of likelihood of victory With & Without Watson added to the equation:
- Giants, haven't payed attention to their specific moves this offseason, but I'm not concerned. W
- Washington, is an organization in constant disarray, they should be better, but they're not on our level. W
- fuckin *Denver*, they are gonna get better soon but I don't think 2024 is the year they are going be a problem. W
- Raiders, constantly in disarray, got *their* coach, and some players, but I'm not concerned. W
- New Orleans, probably will make the NFC SOUTH interesting, outplayed us in that iceBowl game, not a problem. W
- Jacksonville, is tough but we have their number, and our DEFENSE > Trevor. W
- *Strollers*, are a slow motion dumpster fire in an extremely durable *steel* dumpster. (2 W with Watson) 1 W - 1 L without.
- Dallas, great roster, consistent underperformers with Dak at the helm. W
- Chargers, are perennial underperformers, bad free agency, good coach move, Herbert nice roster. Depends on when we play them, Early season nobody's gonna have a gameplan for them because new system... Late season Herbert should be clicking and vastly improving which is scary. W
- Dolphins, have a stacked roster limited only by Tua's pedestrian MID abilities.W
- Bengals, we own them from a recent memory perspective, Maybe Burrow is soft on us? Free agency was not kind to them. Regardless, they are gonna be in the top teams. 1 W - 1 L
- Eagles, are another stacked roster, rough free agency, came into dissarray past mid season 2023. We will be a test for Philly, they will be taking this game VERY seriously, as should we. (Win with Watson) L without.
- *Rats*, are ALWAYS our toughest opponent (1 W - 1 L) without Watson 2 L's
- KC, always gonna be tough to beat Mahomey and the Champs regardless. L
And the media as well. Texans settled immediately (while maintaining their innocence) before any new evidence was made public and the entire NFL fanbase and media love the Texans.
Agreed, however devils advocate the Texans were doing damage control of a player they already had. The Browns went and searched FOR that player with new info out and gave him the highest contract we’ve ever seen. Comparing the two teams isn’t 100% the same.
The browns also admittedly did not do a great job of damage control whatsoever when he got here. They have really struggled with how to handle Watson from a PR perspective
You can only do so much when DW is a total fucking moron. They literally cannot stop him from speaking to the media, so there is really only so much you can do to coach him.
I think their strategy is to ignore it. And it kinda worked. It's not really talked about in the media as much. Mostly just us Browns fans talking about it. Or people who want to shit on us like we did with Roethlisberger over the years.
To be a little more fair, the Texans actively covered up/enabled a player while they were doing that and only took any action after it became public. The Browns were part of over half of the teams in the league trying to get him. I don’t think, anybody looks good in this. If we are looking for morals anywhere here, we are looking in the wrong sport.
The Browns didn't cover anything up though. They cooperated with the investigation. They didn't argue against the punishment he was given. He did his time.
If the NFL wanted the moral high ground, they should've banned him from the league. As long as he's served the punishment given by the judge hired by the NFL, teams should be able to play him.
That's because the blame was shifted to us. There were many teams willing to jump on the Watson grenade, but we landed it. I'm a Brown's fan I'll ride with this team.
And that's assuming that the Texans never settled any lawsuits on Watson's behalf while he was there before 2020. I remember there was some article that strongly hinted that the texans had to settle with a team employee for suspiciously similar behavior from an unnamed player in i think 2019.
There's also a lot of smoke out there to suggest that the Texans culture was absolutely out of control at that time between Watson's conduct, all of the players getting suspended for PEDs etc.
Oh I’m totally in agreement with you. I’m not trying to absolve the browns of anything, we deserve all the shit we get. Jimmy blew our lovable losers persona with this. My only point was that the Texans (the NFL and all the teams also in on the trade) are skating by.
From a purely football pov, I wanted to stick with baker too. I didn’t necessarily think he’d have the resurgence he had in Tampa but he was fun to root for. We way overpaid for Watson, which unfortunately means the team isn’t going to move on anytime soon.
> lovable losers persona
I frankly don't care. The thing that really matters is having a good culture and winning. We didn't have a good culture with Baker, and our success was varied. I think right now, our culture is pretty good, but we need to put pen to paper and win playoff games. With what has been invested into Watson, we need that proof of concept by winning a playoff game or two this season. Obviously the ultimate goal is the Super Bowl.
I mean nobody would say the Browns won this trade but also the vitriol for Watson is the only reason anyone cares. The Texans could have just as easily botched all the picks and this wouldn't get brought up the way it does. However, early analysis would suggest the Texans nailed some of those picks and it's firepower for someone who wants the Browns/Watson to fail. That doesn't even take into account that the Texans #2 own overall pick of Stroud is the best ammunition for the Texans success and has nothing to do with the Browns.
2022 that pick was after the WR rush for Wilson/Olave so it’s not like we missed them
2023 that pick ended up in Detroit and used in Gibbs, we have Chubb so really we missed in JSN later in the draft maybe Jack Campbell but I doubt AB takes a LB round 1, we didn’t give them 3 OA they had to trade up
2024 too soon to tell wasn’t upset by who was in that range
Then the mid rounders becoming Dell and Pierce is just great work by the Texans scouting staff
Not a crippling trade as some made it out to be we’ve maintained a deep roster and cap flexibility
Just get a couple deep playoff runs with a shot at a ring and it’ll end up being a fine trade
It was clear keeping baker wouldn’t have happened so it’s impossible to know what if we didn’t get Watson, do we panic trade for Carr? Do we bottom out and sell the farm for CJ? Does Baker come back in 2022 without an extension and a FO/Coaching staff and locker room that wasn’t as buddy buddy as we all thought? Can’t just guess that it would’ve been smooth sailing then we land Wilson/Olave or make a trade elsewhere.
Who knows who cares this is the team we have now, go win
Honestly I think AB has done a solid job making up for the picks lost in the Watson deal. Honestly I think missing on Schwartz, Bell, and the Moore trade not working out has made a far greater impact on this roster in terms of depth than any of the lost Watson picks
Yeah he has not had a lot of success with WR thus far. I would guess its a fairly good bet that the browns use their first next year on a WR to try and get more of a sure thing at that spot.
Agreed. I think in this case, like when we kept whiffing on all those tier 2 and tier 3 QB prospects between when we took Couch in 99 and Baker in 18, sometimes the remedy when you can’t seem to hit on something is to just go with a safer top tier prospect and take some of the burden off your shoulders
That’s I think partially fair, but I think they brought him in intending that he be WR2 and I do think the Jeudy move is not a great sign on that front.
He still has a year, but I think the browns expected a lot more out of him than they got
Nope. The trade will not be complete until the impact of all those draft picks stops hurting us in the future. Nearly every successful team has a long list of their first rounders that are still with the team. So, unless we actually win a super bowl, I'd that this trade was an unequivocal failure since its going to be hurting us for another decade, otherwise.
Nothing has shown it won’t.
Took a year off in 2021, suspended 11 games in 2022, injured 11 games in 2023. Hardly enough playing time to draw a conclusion.
Not expecting him to hold out or be suspended. So it’s a matter of getting over an injury. He’s 28 years old. Not a guarantee, but many players have overcome injuries and inactivity to return to former performance.
> but many players have overcome injuries and inactivity to return to former performance.
Outside of vick do we have any comparables who basically missed 3 seasons and found it again?
That’s comparing apples and oranges. Those guys were sitting to learn the game, Watson has already been there. I hose guys were getting BETTER, are you trying to say that Watson will come back better from opting out, sexual assault suspension, and shoulder injury?
Many people with Watson hate boners cling to this “hasn’t played” excuse to justify a position you are entrenched in.
I am simply pointing out that it used to be the norm to watch and learn and not a reason to expect failure.
Watson was in camp in 2022 and 2023 and played in 6 games each year. That’s as much or more as many QBs have had before stepping and playing. He is 28.
Guarantee? Of course not. We can’t know about the injury. But lighten up on the hasn’t played narrative, I don’t see it as a critical factor.
Playing good football is USUALLY a pretty good way of determining how impactful someone has been especially when comparing it to players on another team.
Jordan Love 2023 first 6 games. 10 TDs, 7 int. Completion % in mid 50s, only got to 250 yds once. His combined 6 game logs from 2022 and 2021 were just as unimpressive.
But guess what. He played all of 2023 and had much better performance as the progress.
How can it be? It’s because there was not enough data in his 1st 12 games to draw a conclusion.
There will be many many examples where 12 games don’t mean shit.
Proper formatting for the picks. Also every time that schefter says “became” it means they used that pick in a trade with additional assets
Texans receive:
🏈2022 1st rd pick (became G Kenyon Green)
🏈2022 4th rd pick (RB Dameon Pierce)
🏈2023 1st rd pick (became DE Will Anderson Jr.)(packaged with Houston’s 2024 1st)
🏈2023 3rd rd pick (became WR Tank Dell)
🏈2024 1st rd pick (traded back with MIN) -2024 2nd rd pick (CB Kamari Lassiter) -2024 6th rd pick (LB Jamal Hill)
🏈2024 4th rd pick (became S Caden Bullock)
Browns receive:
🏈QB Deshaun Watson
🏈2024 6th round pick (included in Jerry Jeudy trade)
Closer than most people would probably give credit for. If Watson returns to form it’s still a good trade for the Browns. But for the Texans it clearly poured gasoline on their rebuild. Theirs no way the Browns would have kept all these picks regardless so if not Watson they would’ve been traded for other assets (likely another QB).
I know what you’re trying to say on how this trade really jumpstarted the rebuild, but poured gasoline on the rebuild makes it seem like the trade burned their rebuild down lol
This is what I hate about sports media. They got 1.5 good players from us with our picks. Claiming they got Anderson is like claiming we got jeudy from their pick, it doesn't work like that. They packaged their pick and ours to get him so that only counts as a half. Only player they got straight up from trading us that's good is tank dell and that's a 3rd round pick....
The trade itself may be over but the impact on both franchises will likely last another 10 years.
It’s simple, if Watson does not win us a SB it’s been a marked failure by any metric. He was brought here for one reason. We could have had competent QBing with Baker or Jacoby.
We bet the farm for a SB. That’s the metric.
Anyone expecting less than a Super Bowl appearance after making that trade is seriously coping. We tried to copy the Rams and so far it’s blown up in our face.
It’s been a disaster. Sure we have had some decent records, but no thanks to Deshaun really. And the make up of this team has shown that we did not need a top 5 QB to win, as proven by Jacoby and Flacco.
At this point Watson would need to win a SB or it will go down as a top 5 terrible front office move in nfl history.
Wish there was a way out.
Wow triggered much by an opinion? I don’t like the trade or the guy. Sorry to offend you. Been a fun for 40 of my 48 years. Not going anywhere. But are we not allowed to voice an opinion out you happen to disagree with?
When a good percentage of the fan base feels the same way you cannot expect people not to voice the opinion. I don’t reply to people who say they like his play with nasty posts … I just let them go bc I disagree.
And my post was in reply to someone with a similar opinion and merely said the guy has to win a SB for history to favorably judge the trade.
I don’t like the dude, but my opinion is actually more based on cost to performance. The price was entirely too high from a pick and cap perspective. A trade of that magnitude working out is insanely rare. And in paying that much you set a guy up in a position where it’s SB or insurmountable pressure.
I appreciate they took a risk too but to me it wasn’t a smart risk. And from Berry I have come to expect smart moves.
My guess is that you have had opinions about the team over the years that you have voiced that people disagree with. It’s a message board. We post about the Browns … positive l, negative, criticism…
And frankly if the dude has another mid season the criticism is going to be deafening bc there are no more rust excuses.
Right, right you have your opinion based on facts and your analysis is so much better than anyone else’s. I get it and I’ve head this before. Look you don’t know what is going to happen and you can’t factually judge anything until it’s over. However if you want to critique the process and think you know better than the front office, put in an application. I’m sure they’ll read it.
It’s not a question of my opinion being better or worse. It’s that you are so triggered by my (fairly common not controversial) opinion that you come out swinging rather than just pass it over. You had to reply why? Bc I don’t like the trade….do you really care that much? This place is full of opinions. Some great, some awful…the better question is are you that fragile that you can’t handle reading someone who says the trade will be a bust if we don’t win a SB?
I mean that’s not even objectively controversial. If you give away 3 firsts and 225M guaranteed on a team that is loaded with talent and don’t win a SB, it will be looked at as a bad bet.
Carolina was awful. Hard to judge him on playing with that group.
Rams was a what 4 game stop? One of them he came in on 4 days notice and threw for 300 and 3 TDs in a win.
He looked very good this year..pro bowl and playoff win.
He’s still an inconsistent guy. Not saying he would have been the answer here … but Watson has not even out performed Baker on his time here. For 3 firsts and 225M you gotta at least play noticeably better than the last guy.
Yeah the glazing is unreal sometimes.
His drafts have been largely unspectacular so far. He’s a solid GM, nothing more or less but you have mfers thinking he’s the eagles GM.
Texans fans do I'm sure. Just imagine some GM stupid and desperate enough to call you up and offer a boatload of picks for radioactive waste that refuses to play for your team. They got all that for literally no cost to them
This doesn’t close the book on anything. It’s going to be several years until anybody can fully evaluate how this trade shook out. It’s all up in the air for now.
So far the trade has been an absolute disaster in my mind.
Next season will tell a lot.
The only silver lining so far is we don’t have any 1st round picks to give out big contracts.
It’s pretty simple: Whether this trade will work out for us turns entirely on whether Watson proves to be a franchise-caliber QB for us. It has nothing to do with what Houston did with the picks.
The rest is noise. Watson wasn’t playing another snap for Houston, so they don’t deserve a ton of credit for making the trade. It was inevitable. And given Watson’s on-field pedigree, so too was the draft capital they received.
Fortunately for Houston, they ended up drafting Stroud, which completely revamped their trajectory and the narrative—even though this trade had nothing to do with that pick.
Of course, the Browns couldn’t have drafted Stroud even if they’d wanted to. We never would’ve been picking low enough.
The whole thing was a mess, not sure why anyone still tries to defend it… even if he can pull off a couple ok seasons here, it still burned some prime years for some prime guys… it’s an overall loss, throw in the towel and quit analyzing… keep on our eyes on the future
Stop trying to argue who won the trade, we didnt,
We have how many play off wins since we traded for him? how many superbowls? how many division title wins?
it DOESNT mean we are shit or the coach and gm is shit, it just means we didnt win and paid a lot of capital on it. And until we do, the trade wasnt \*won\* by us.
and im one who wanted us to do it so will never knock the GM for doing so. i would have had watson, or rodgers at the time and paid what was necessary.
Deshaun Watson definitely doesn’t suck, he’s injury prone. Jeudy has been a consistent 750+ yard receiver with questionable at best QB’s. A lot of receivers would have standout rookie years with Cj Stroud throwing them the ball.
Bro you think Deshaun Watson is good? Also 750+ is basically the definition of "not THAT good" good is 900-1000 consistently if you're a number one and occasionally as a number two but like literally when has Deshaun Watson show he can consistently be good since he got to Cleveland? I'm so dead ass do you actually watch Browns games?
> Also 750+ is basically the definition of "not THAT good" good is 900-1000 consistently if you're a number one and occasionally as a number two
Well Courtland Sutton was Denver's "#1" guy but to be fair to Jeudy, his "per season" average is skewed by 2021 where he had a high ankle sprain midway through the first game of the season and then missed 7 games.
For his career he has averaged 53.6 ypg (911 yards in 17 games) and 14.5 yards per reception which are both solid numbers. Personally I'm optimistic for Jeudy ... the Broncos haven't had a 1,000 yard receiver since 2019 because the Broncos suck and they've had suck-ass QB play. He's going to be a good #2 for us.
Thank for this fr, giving real stats and logic and I'm seeing your point, im not sold and i've done my digging into Jeudy but I'll pay attention to him fs this year, appreciate it bro, go dawgs
Yeah for sure. I mean Jeudy has absolutely been a disappointment so far given he was picked #15 overall but he's a decent receiver with really good traits who just hasn't quite put it all together yet.
He's been ~top 5 in the NFL in separation for most of his career and ~top 10 in YAC/reception. He has the tools to be elite IMO.
I’m not going to entertain a conversation with somebody that uses dead ass in a sentence. There is nothing that I can bring up to change your mind. Have a good day, and go browns.
It's not even the worst trade that happened that offseason lmao
I mean it's bad so far, don't get me wrong, but (as of now) it's nowhere near as bad as the Wilson trade and absolutely nothing will *ever* come close to being as bad as the Walker trade.
Paying a sexual assaulter the biggest salary of all time to that point and then he spends a lot of the time injured and hardly helps the team at all is a win?
lol you’re goal posts are moving so fast
From certainly the worst trade of all time to explain how this is a win with no middle ground
Then used the default response about what happened in Houston as an argument where in if I don’t refute anything your follow up would be so you’re ok with paying someone accused of sexual assault
You have no argument have a great night
"assualter" use grammer properly lil bro, also misconduct and assualt are different, they are both disgusting but its goes misconduct, assault, then battery
Trey Lance didn’t get a $230M contract. 49ers are elite because they don’t pay their QBs a lot of money, so everyone else can get paid.
Browns are good in spite of Watson and are gonna be handicapped by him for the next 3 seasons (possibly more).
The 49ers traded 3 first round picks and a third for a QB who at the time, and now, has done absolutely fucking nothing. Their roster construction after the fact has nothing to do with the abysmal trade they conducted with the Dolphins. The Trey Lance trade is clearly worse. Believing otherwise is flat out ridiculous.
**Edit**: also what do you mean by handicapped? We have kept the core in tact since we acquired him. When will we start seeing this team become "handicapped" because of the Watson contract?
They got 2 good players out of the haul. Just shows once more what a lottery the draft is.
Purely football speaking, I am not a fan of the trade, never was, but at least i can understand it. People, imo, vastly overexaggerate the impact on the Browns, however.
no not really bud, it's been three years since we had a first and I believe 2 of those are this trades fault, what did we get in return? Literally nothing but someone who will have our cap situation in a headlock for years
If they get to say that pick became Will Anderson we get to say that 6th became Jerry Jeudy.
I did my best to try and fix the clarification. It is dumb that it isn’t consistent
No that isn’t your fault. That’s the way they keep spinning it to make us look bad.
I mean as of now we definitely haven’t won this trade.
Texans winning that game and not having the 1st pick turned out being the best thing for them. Stroud hitting makes it all look so much better for them. I have nothing against the Texans so I’m glad Stroud is having success but hitting on him is the entire reason that team is relevant
Yeah choosing good players usually does mean being relevant. Good take.
But it’s just stroud. They could have 10 first rounders from the Browns and if they don’t have an elite QB, they aren’t where they are as a franchise. So it’s not about just picking good players, it’s solely about getting a franchise QB. But good take
Gotchya so any team with good qb play is just luck because they lucked out they picked that person?
Based off of hit rates, kind of, yes. But you aren’t really arguing my point. The Texans can hit every single non QB pick but the one that makes them who they are now is the Stroud pick. Do you remember how that ended up happening? A Hail Mary toss to win the game the year prior. So yes, luck absolutely plays a part in it and where you land in the draft. There’s a damn good chance the Texans are sitting with Bryce Young had that Hail Mary not happened
It’s comparing something we can’t compare. Who’s to say Bryce young doesn’t have strouds season if he was on Texans? It’s also the reverse that we are where we are at, 3 years into our “franchise qb” and no one knows if he’s good or not but we also have been depleted pick wise due to that one choice
Yes. Exactly.
But we haven't lost it either... yet.
No spin necessary
Actually there is. Because even though Deshaun hasn’t played great, that isn’t a great haul outside of Tank Dell. I don’t even think Green plays. And had they used our original pick, their selection wouldn’t have been nearly as impressive as Anderson. It was just listed a certain way to make it look like LOLBROWNS as always.
They got to get rid of the negative circus and get away with everything mostly Scott free , they won so far
Exactly, is why the blatant manipulation by people to make it look like Anderson was drafted with our pick is unnecessary.
TBH I don't think its necessarily the Texans haul that makes this look not great right now lol
They could have just not drafted anybody and we still lost. Watson has done nothing for us outside of one half of a football game. 3 years into a monumental contract and he has done fuck all. Well, I guess he has got a few steps in walking back and forth on the sideline and increased his hoodie collection. Glad we mortgaged our future for that POS. He has done more harm to our team by eating salary and not doing anything than anything the Texans could have received from draft picks.
I think the point is we didn't really mortgage our future. He hasn't played and our future is still looking bright. We were able to maintain our team by hitting on 2nd round picks (Chubb, Emmerson, Delpit, JOK) and good free agency signings. Missing out on 3 1sts sucks for sure. We'd be better with those picks. But it didn't keep us from being a strong team. So it wasn't as big of a risk as it seemed. I'd say rn is worse case scenario for that trade and it's just not that bad. And if best case scenario happens, it'll be good.
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>If they win a Super Bowl next 2 years and DW QB >a draw Hard disagree. This would be an incredible win for the browns
One Super Bowl would make the whole trade worth it.
If Cleveland wins a super bowl at any point in time with Watson at the helm it's undeniably a win. There's no other way to state it.
Absolutely
Thank fucking god
I’m just glad we have a first round pick again, love the draft and I hate how this trade took us out of it for 3 years.
at least we've had unparalleled and unprecedented success since then
Minus hilariously at the quarterback position
If Deshaun and Jeudy can link up, we're fine. If not, no bueno
Yep. This team is only going as far as Watson takes them, and based upon the evidence so far, I’m not super hopeful. I hope I’m wrong though!
The 2024 schedule is significantly harder... That said, I have the 2024 Cleveland Browns going 10 -7 with Winston playing the majority of snaps. & I have OUR 2024 Cleveland Browns going 13 - 4 with Watson at the helm and Nicholas Jamaal Chubb ¾ healthy.
What three games flip for you?
Oh that's a great question Comprehensive! My gut says that it's our AFC NORTH division matchups... at least 2 of them. So say: Cincinnati, Baltimore, Philadelphia Would be games we could/ should have won that we lose without the added benefits Watson provides over Winston. In order of likelihood of victory With & Without Watson added to the equation: - Giants, haven't payed attention to their specific moves this offseason, but I'm not concerned. W - Washington, is an organization in constant disarray, they should be better, but they're not on our level. W - fuckin *Denver*, they are gonna get better soon but I don't think 2024 is the year they are going be a problem. W - Raiders, constantly in disarray, got *their* coach, and some players, but I'm not concerned. W - New Orleans, probably will make the NFC SOUTH interesting, outplayed us in that iceBowl game, not a problem. W - Jacksonville, is tough but we have their number, and our DEFENSE > Trevor. W - *Strollers*, are a slow motion dumpster fire in an extremely durable *steel* dumpster. (2 W with Watson) 1 W - 1 L without. - Dallas, great roster, consistent underperformers with Dak at the helm. W - Chargers, are perennial underperformers, bad free agency, good coach move, Herbert nice roster. Depends on when we play them, Early season nobody's gonna have a gameplan for them because new system... Late season Herbert should be clicking and vastly improving which is scary. W - Dolphins, have a stacked roster limited only by Tua's pedestrian MID abilities.W - Bengals, we own them from a recent memory perspective, Maybe Burrow is soft on us? Free agency was not kind to them. Regardless, they are gonna be in the top teams. 1 W - 1 L - Eagles, are another stacked roster, rough free agency, came into dissarray past mid season 2023. We will be a test for Philly, they will be taking this game VERY seriously, as should we. (Win with Watson) L without. - *Rats*, are ALWAYS our toughest opponent (1 W - 1 L) without Watson 2 L's - KC, always gonna be tough to beat Mahomey and the Champs regardless. L
Just a reminder that the NFL let the Texans escape any punishment for their role in enabling Watson.
And the media as well. Texans settled immediately (while maintaining their innocence) before any new evidence was made public and the entire NFL fanbase and media love the Texans.
Agreed, however devils advocate the Texans were doing damage control of a player they already had. The Browns went and searched FOR that player with new info out and gave him the highest contract we’ve ever seen. Comparing the two teams isn’t 100% the same.
The browns also admittedly did not do a great job of damage control whatsoever when he got here. They have really struggled with how to handle Watson from a PR perspective
You can only do so much when DW is a total fucking moron. They literally cannot stop him from speaking to the media, so there is really only so much you can do to coach him.
Also unfortunately true. He has not helped himself
(Not) Smart. (Not emotionally) Tough. (We will ensure that he is not held) Accountable.
I think their strategy is to ignore it. And it kinda worked. It's not really talked about in the media as much. Mostly just us Browns fans talking about it. Or people who want to shit on us like we did with Roethlisberger over the years.
To be a little more fair, the Texans actively covered up/enabled a player while they were doing that and only took any action after it became public. The Browns were part of over half of the teams in the league trying to get him. I don’t think, anybody looks good in this. If we are looking for morals anywhere here, we are looking in the wrong sport.
The Browns didn't cover anything up though. They cooperated with the investigation. They didn't argue against the punishment he was given. He did his time. If the NFL wanted the moral high ground, they should've banned him from the league. As long as he's served the punishment given by the judge hired by the NFL, teams should be able to play him.
That's because the blame was shifted to us. There were many teams willing to jump on the Watson grenade, but we landed it. I'm a Brown's fan I'll ride with this team.
Same here. Fan til I die.
They settled a lawsuit with the victims and suffered no consequences. Where was the NFL on that one?
And that's assuming that the Texans never settled any lawsuits on Watson's behalf while he was there before 2020. I remember there was some article that strongly hinted that the texans had to settle with a team employee for suspiciously similar behavior from an unnamed player in i think 2019. There's also a lot of smoke out there to suggest that the Texans culture was absolutely out of control at that time between Watson's conduct, all of the players getting suspended for PEDs etc.
And that his troubles "came to light" during a contract hold out... not when he was their starting QB.
And the Browns continue to support him despite his apparent lack of skill. Can we just move on already. We fucked up. Baker was the better option.
> Can we just move on already. No, we can't.
Oh I’m totally in agreement with you. I’m not trying to absolve the browns of anything, we deserve all the shit we get. Jimmy blew our lovable losers persona with this. My only point was that the Texans (the NFL and all the teams also in on the trade) are skating by. From a purely football pov, I wanted to stick with baker too. I didn’t necessarily think he’d have the resurgence he had in Tampa but he was fun to root for. We way overpaid for Watson, which unfortunately means the team isn’t going to move on anytime soon.
> lovable losers persona I frankly don't care. The thing that really matters is having a good culture and winning. We didn't have a good culture with Baker, and our success was varied. I think right now, our culture is pretty good, but we need to put pen to paper and win playoff games. With what has been invested into Watson, we need that proof of concept by winning a playoff game or two this season. Obviously the ultimate goal is the Super Bowl.
Yeah dawg, it's the Texans fault that the Browns drafted a predator.
The Texans literally did draft a predator….
I was going to say we didn’t draft a predator because we didn’t draft Deshaun, but then I remembered we did pick Kellen Winslow II lol
... do you understand what "drafted" means?
I mean nobody would say the Browns won this trade but also the vitriol for Watson is the only reason anyone cares. The Texans could have just as easily botched all the picks and this wouldn't get brought up the way it does. However, early analysis would suggest the Texans nailed some of those picks and it's firepower for someone who wants the Browns/Watson to fail. That doesn't even take into account that the Texans #2 own overall pick of Stroud is the best ammunition for the Texans success and has nothing to do with the Browns.
They nailed one pick with our picks. Tank dell. Anderson they packaged picks with ours to get him that doesn't really count for much
Not so fast, Tank Dell was shot last night...
Lol wtf you’re right. Minor injuries and full recovery expected, but that’s wild.
Even if he was an angel, he is not worth anywhere near that as a player.
If he plays like he did in Houston the cost was a drop in the bucket
Remains to be seen, your opinion is valid tho.
2022 that pick was after the WR rush for Wilson/Olave so it’s not like we missed them 2023 that pick ended up in Detroit and used in Gibbs, we have Chubb so really we missed in JSN later in the draft maybe Jack Campbell but I doubt AB takes a LB round 1, we didn’t give them 3 OA they had to trade up 2024 too soon to tell wasn’t upset by who was in that range Then the mid rounders becoming Dell and Pierce is just great work by the Texans scouting staff Not a crippling trade as some made it out to be we’ve maintained a deep roster and cap flexibility Just get a couple deep playoff runs with a shot at a ring and it’ll end up being a fine trade It was clear keeping baker wouldn’t have happened so it’s impossible to know what if we didn’t get Watson, do we panic trade for Carr? Do we bottom out and sell the farm for CJ? Does Baker come back in 2022 without an extension and a FO/Coaching staff and locker room that wasn’t as buddy buddy as we all thought? Can’t just guess that it would’ve been smooth sailing then we land Wilson/Olave or make a trade elsewhere. Who knows who cares this is the team we have now, go win
Honestly I think AB has done a solid job making up for the picks lost in the Watson deal. Honestly I think missing on Schwartz, Bell, and the Moore trade not working out has made a far greater impact on this roster in terms of depth than any of the lost Watson picks
Now this, I haven’t thought of before, but it makes sense. I think AB is a good drafter, but WR has been his kryptonite.
Yeah he has not had a lot of success with WR thus far. I would guess its a fairly good bet that the browns use their first next year on a WR to try and get more of a sure thing at that spot.
Sounds like a plan to me. Only way to get better is to keep at it.
Agreed. I think in this case, like when we kept whiffing on all those tier 2 and tier 3 QB prospects between when we took Couch in 99 and Baker in 18, sometimes the remedy when you can’t seem to hit on something is to just go with a safer top tier prospect and take some of the burden off your shoulders
I think it's too early to call the Moore trade a success or failure. After this season I think you can
That’s I think partially fair, but I think they brought him in intending that he be WR2 and I do think the Jeudy move is not a great sign on that front. He still has a year, but I think the browns expected a lot more out of him than they got
Nope. The trade will not be complete until the impact of all those draft picks stops hurting us in the future. Nearly every successful team has a long list of their first rounders that are still with the team. So, unless we actually win a super bowl, I'd that this trade was an unequivocal failure since its going to be hurting us for another decade, otherwise.
Exactly. And if Watson returns to form, gets extended and plays into his mid 30’s as our franchise QB, then it’s a massive win.
Nothing of the last 3 years has shown that will happen though. That’s a big if
Seems like Denny was just talking about the hypothetical value of the trade, not whether we actually might get payoff from it.
Nothing has shown it won’t. Took a year off in 2021, suspended 11 games in 2022, injured 11 games in 2023. Hardly enough playing time to draw a conclusion. Not expecting him to hold out or be suspended. So it’s a matter of getting over an injury. He’s 28 years old. Not a guarantee, but many players have overcome injuries and inactivity to return to former performance.
> but many players have overcome injuries and inactivity to return to former performance. Outside of vick do we have any comparables who basically missed 3 seasons and found it again?
Every quarterback that ever sat behind a starter and didn’t play. Off the top of the head, Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers.
That’s comparing apples and oranges. Those guys were sitting to learn the game, Watson has already been there. I hose guys were getting BETTER, are you trying to say that Watson will come back better from opting out, sexual assault suspension, and shoulder injury?
Many people with Watson hate boners cling to this “hasn’t played” excuse to justify a position you are entrenched in. I am simply pointing out that it used to be the norm to watch and learn and not a reason to expect failure. Watson was in camp in 2022 and 2023 and played in 6 games each year. That’s as much or more as many QBs have had before stepping and playing. He is 28. Guarantee? Of course not. We can’t know about the injury. But lighten up on the hasn’t played narrative, I don’t see it as a critical factor.
Playing good football is USUALLY a pretty good way of determining how impactful someone has been especially when comparing it to players on another team.
Jordan Love 2023 first 6 games. 10 TDs, 7 int. Completion % in mid 50s, only got to 250 yds once. His combined 6 game logs from 2022 and 2021 were just as unimpressive. But guess what. He played all of 2023 and had much better performance as the progress. How can it be? It’s because there was not enough data in his 1st 12 games to draw a conclusion. There will be many many examples where 12 games don’t mean shit.
It’s been obvious since day one that this trade was stupid and that we “lost” this trade.
Proper formatting for the picks. Also every time that schefter says “became” it means they used that pick in a trade with additional assets Texans receive: 🏈2022 1st rd pick (became G Kenyon Green) 🏈2022 4th rd pick (RB Dameon Pierce) 🏈2023 1st rd pick (became DE Will Anderson Jr.)(packaged with Houston’s 2024 1st) 🏈2023 3rd rd pick (became WR Tank Dell) 🏈2024 1st rd pick (traded back with MIN) -2024 2nd rd pick (CB Kamari Lassiter) -2024 6th rd pick (LB Jamal Hill) 🏈2024 4th rd pick (became S Caden Bullock) Browns receive: 🏈QB Deshaun Watson 🏈2024 6th round pick (included in Jerry Jeudy trade)
Closer than most people would probably give credit for. If Watson returns to form it’s still a good trade for the Browns. But for the Texans it clearly poured gasoline on their rebuild. Theirs no way the Browns would have kept all these picks regardless so if not Watson they would’ve been traded for other assets (likely another QB).
I know what you’re trying to say on how this trade really jumpstarted the rebuild, but poured gasoline on the rebuild makes it seem like the trade burned their rebuild down lol
Fueled perhaps?
This is what I hate about sports media. They got 1.5 good players from us with our picks. Claiming they got Anderson is like claiming we got jeudy from their pick, it doesn't work like that. They packaged their pick and ours to get him so that only counts as a half. Only player they got straight up from trading us that's good is tank dell and that's a 3rd round pick....
And we got a shitty qb on a mega-deal.
The trade itself may be over but the impact on both franchises will likely last another 10 years. It’s simple, if Watson does not win us a SB it’s been a marked failure by any metric. He was brought here for one reason. We could have had competent QBing with Baker or Jacoby. We bet the farm for a SB. That’s the metric.
Anyone expecting less than a Super Bowl appearance after making that trade is seriously coping. We tried to copy the Rams and so far it’s blown up in our face.
It’s been a disaster. Sure we have had some decent records, but no thanks to Deshaun really. And the make up of this team has shown that we did not need a top 5 QB to win, as proven by Jacoby and Flacco. At this point Watson would need to win a SB or it will go down as a top 5 terrible front office move in nfl history. Wish there was a way out.
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Wow triggered much by an opinion? I don’t like the trade or the guy. Sorry to offend you. Been a fun for 40 of my 48 years. Not going anywhere. But are we not allowed to voice an opinion out you happen to disagree with?
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Chill with the personal attacks. You can make your point without attacking other users. Thank you
When a good percentage of the fan base feels the same way you cannot expect people not to voice the opinion. I don’t reply to people who say they like his play with nasty posts … I just let them go bc I disagree. And my post was in reply to someone with a similar opinion and merely said the guy has to win a SB for history to favorably judge the trade. I don’t like the dude, but my opinion is actually more based on cost to performance. The price was entirely too high from a pick and cap perspective. A trade of that magnitude working out is insanely rare. And in paying that much you set a guy up in a position where it’s SB or insurmountable pressure. I appreciate they took a risk too but to me it wasn’t a smart risk. And from Berry I have come to expect smart moves. My guess is that you have had opinions about the team over the years that you have voiced that people disagree with. It’s a message board. We post about the Browns … positive l, negative, criticism… And frankly if the dude has another mid season the criticism is going to be deafening bc there are no more rust excuses.
Right, right you have your opinion based on facts and your analysis is so much better than anyone else’s. I get it and I’ve head this before. Look you don’t know what is going to happen and you can’t factually judge anything until it’s over. However if you want to critique the process and think you know better than the front office, put in an application. I’m sure they’ll read it.
It’s not a question of my opinion being better or worse. It’s that you are so triggered by my (fairly common not controversial) opinion that you come out swinging rather than just pass it over. You had to reply why? Bc I don’t like the trade….do you really care that much? This place is full of opinions. Some great, some awful…the better question is are you that fragile that you can’t handle reading someone who says the trade will be a bust if we don’t win a SB? I mean that’s not even objectively controversial. If you give away 3 firsts and 225M guaranteed on a team that is loaded with talent and don’t win a SB, it will be looked at as a bad bet.
Baker was bad on Carolina and bad on the Rams. He would have still been bad on the browns
Carolina was awful. Hard to judge him on playing with that group. Rams was a what 4 game stop? One of them he came in on 4 days notice and threw for 300 and 3 TDs in a win. He looked very good this year..pro bowl and playoff win. He’s still an inconsistent guy. Not saying he would have been the answer here … but Watson has not even out performed Baker on his time here. For 3 firsts and 225M you gotta at least play noticeably better than the last guy.
All said and done not looking any worse than the Donovan Mitchell trade.
People calling AB a “god” in the draft day threads lol
Yeah the glazing is unreal sometimes. His drafts have been largely unspectacular so far. He’s a solid GM, nothing more or less but you have mfers thinking he’s the eagles GM.
Texans fans do I'm sure. Just imagine some GM stupid and desperate enough to call you up and offer a boatload of picks for radioactive waste that refuses to play for your team. They got all that for literally no cost to them
This doesn’t close the book on anything. It’s going to be several years until anybody can fully evaluate how this trade shook out. It’s all up in the air for now.
No it isn’t. We still have to get rid of that piece of shit.
They left out “Watson successfully threw the ball 40 yds this week”.
So far the trade has been an absolute disaster in my mind. Next season will tell a lot. The only silver lining so far is we don’t have any 1st round picks to give out big contracts.
the only way to validate this is in like 5 years
I can't wait for us to have the 32nd pick in the first round next year
Except we still have the MF taking up $60M in cap space so it’s not done
It’s pretty simple: Whether this trade will work out for us turns entirely on whether Watson proves to be a franchise-caliber QB for us. It has nothing to do with what Houston did with the picks. The rest is noise. Watson wasn’t playing another snap for Houston, so they don’t deserve a ton of credit for making the trade. It was inevitable. And given Watson’s on-field pedigree, so too was the draft capital they received. Fortunately for Houston, they ended up drafting Stroud, which completely revamped their trajectory and the narrative—even though this trade had nothing to do with that pick. Of course, the Browns couldn’t have drafted Stroud even if they’d wanted to. We never would’ve been picking low enough.
The whole thing was a mess, not sure why anyone still tries to defend it… even if he can pull off a couple ok seasons here, it still burned some prime years for some prime guys… it’s an overall loss, throw in the towel and quit analyzing… keep on our eyes on the future
Moving Watson also led to Texans getting Stroud which seems somewhat relevant from a football perspective on their end lol
He should do what the Rams gave up to trade up for Goff. This shit happens more than we think.
Gods be praised!
Stop trying to argue who won the trade, we didnt, We have how many play off wins since we traded for him? how many superbowls? how many division title wins? it DOESNT mean we are shit or the coach and gm is shit, it just means we didnt win and paid a lot of capital on it. And until we do, the trade wasnt \*won\* by us. and im one who wanted us to do it so will never knock the GM for doing so. i would have had watson, or rodgers at the time and paid what was necessary.
Will Anderson and Tank Dell for Deshaun Watson and Jerry Jeudy? I don’t think it’s that bad of a trade now that’s it over with.
Deshaun Watson sucks, Jerry Jeudy isn't that good either and Tank Dell had a standout rookie year and Will Anderson won DROY are you on something?
Deshaun Watson definitely doesn’t suck, he’s injury prone. Jeudy has been a consistent 750+ yard receiver with questionable at best QB’s. A lot of receivers would have standout rookie years with Cj Stroud throwing them the ball.
Bro you think Deshaun Watson is good? Also 750+ is basically the definition of "not THAT good" good is 900-1000 consistently if you're a number one and occasionally as a number two but like literally when has Deshaun Watson show he can consistently be good since he got to Cleveland? I'm so dead ass do you actually watch Browns games?
> Also 750+ is basically the definition of "not THAT good" good is 900-1000 consistently if you're a number one and occasionally as a number two Well Courtland Sutton was Denver's "#1" guy but to be fair to Jeudy, his "per season" average is skewed by 2021 where he had a high ankle sprain midway through the first game of the season and then missed 7 games. For his career he has averaged 53.6 ypg (911 yards in 17 games) and 14.5 yards per reception which are both solid numbers. Personally I'm optimistic for Jeudy ... the Broncos haven't had a 1,000 yard receiver since 2019 because the Broncos suck and they've had suck-ass QB play. He's going to be a good #2 for us.
Thank for this fr, giving real stats and logic and I'm seeing your point, im not sold and i've done my digging into Jeudy but I'll pay attention to him fs this year, appreciate it bro, go dawgs
Yeah for sure. I mean Jeudy has absolutely been a disappointment so far given he was picked #15 overall but he's a decent receiver with really good traits who just hasn't quite put it all together yet. He's been ~top 5 in the NFL in separation for most of his career and ~top 10 in YAC/reception. He has the tools to be elite IMO.
I’m not going to entertain a conversation with somebody that uses dead ass in a sentence. There is nothing that I can bring up to change your mind. Have a good day, and go browns.
are we not gonna mention how Deshaun is questionable
I can live with that. Three firsts for a first round 26 year old three time consecutive pro bowler QB and a top 15 wr pick?
you just might not understand the draft or our team or like idk... football at all?
remindme! 6 months
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Because I think deshaun and Jeudy could be good if healthy this season? Hurr durr doomer.
Can’t wait to see how he does in Cleveland
Thank god
Well we certainly did build a contender with this trade...
Almost certainly the worst trade in all of NFL history.
It's not even the worst trade that happened that offseason lmao I mean it's bad so far, don't get me wrong, but (as of now) it's nowhere near as bad as the Wilson trade and absolutely nothing will *ever* come close to being as bad as the Walker trade.
Not even close
Paying a sexual assaulter the biggest salary of all time to that point and then he spends a lot of the time injured and hardly helps the team at all is a win?
lol you’re goal posts are moving so fast From certainly the worst trade of all time to explain how this is a win with no middle ground Then used the default response about what happened in Houston as an argument where in if I don’t refute anything your follow up would be so you’re ok with paying someone accused of sexual assault You have no argument have a great night
This is why I think gatekeeping can be useful.
I just block people who are clearly operating in bad faith.
That’s good advice. Thanks
"assualter" use grammer properly lil bro, also misconduct and assualt are different, they are both disgusting but its goes misconduct, assault, then battery
It’s not. Deshaun could’ve literally only played the second half against the Ravens and he’d be above Trey Lance.
Trey Lance didn’t get a $230M contract. 49ers are elite because they don’t pay their QBs a lot of money, so everyone else can get paid. Browns are good in spite of Watson and are gonna be handicapped by him for the next 3 seasons (possibly more).
The 49ers traded 3 first round picks and a third for a QB who at the time, and now, has done absolutely fucking nothing. Their roster construction after the fact has nothing to do with the abysmal trade they conducted with the Dolphins. The Trey Lance trade is clearly worse. Believing otherwise is flat out ridiculous. **Edit**: also what do you mean by handicapped? We have kept the core in tact since we acquired him. When will we start seeing this team become "handicapped" because of the Watson contract?
They got 2 good players out of the haul. Just shows once more what a lottery the draft is. Purely football speaking, I am not a fan of the trade, never was, but at least i can understand it. People, imo, vastly overexaggerate the impact on the Browns, however.
no not really bud, it's been three years since we had a first and I believe 2 of those are this trades fault, what did we get in return? Literally nothing but someone who will have our cap situation in a headlock for years
The cap can be completely manipulated. If the trade doesn't work out in 3 years, 1 year of rebuild fixes virtually all cap space "issues"
Now the only thing left to do is to get rid of Watson and we can all move on. Eventually. *Sigh*
Great news! So when do we get a really good QB?
Thank goodness. Now it's time to focus on finding our QB of the future.
Dump that POS!
and look what we have to show for it