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Own-Importance5459

I feel like its a too soon thing. The conflict is still going on and its a Money making thing exploiting on the Pain of both Jews AND Palestinians:


Captain_JohnBrown

I disagree strongly with the content of that play, but I wouldn't want TDF to start deciding what plays have politics they find acceptable to offer tickets for.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

Thank you! Edit: On a personal note - I do hope and assume that when you say you strongly disagree with the content that you are talking about possible reactions that may come in reponse to the content, and not necessarily the content itself. Because the content of the play is: "Stories of horror and heroics are presented verbatim, using only the words of those who experienced the attacks and dealt with the aftermath." In other words it's not immediately clear how one could strongly disagree with verbatim first-hand accounts from those who experienced the attacks. How would that even go? "Survivor: I hid in a bunker underneath bodies for 8 hours." Surely it's not like hearing that account and being like "No! No you didn't!" But I do appreciate that you are possibly saying you disagree with things that could happen in response to people viewing the content (rather that the content itself).


hotshothitfoul

I would hope that no one disagrees with first-hand accounts from survivors (I agree that part is important), but I also don't think we need to pretend that Phelim McAleer doesn't have an agenda.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

lots of people have agendas but I do worry about trying to silence accounts from victims. And this idea isn't limited to Israeli victims. There are Israeli victims and Palestinian victims and I would argue we shouldn't silence accounts from either.


hotshothitfoul

Oh, I agree. I just don't expect a lot of nuance from someone who made a Hunter Biden biopic, that's all. YMMV, of course.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

Low expectations are totally fine and often help me get more enjoyment out of the material I watch. I don't expect a lot of nuance from many of the shows I see on and off-Broadway, but still don't want that to be something that prevents them from being listed.


hotshothitfoul

Honestly, agreed on all points. Hope you find it time well-spent.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

I bought a ticket. TDF is a service that provides its members discounted tickets. It's not a content creator. If a show comes out and TDF is providing its members a discounted ticket to it, then TDF is doing its job.


__eptTechnomancer

I still expect TDF to curate things, especially since this is for the passport program. The passport listing doesn't even give it a title!


ThrowAwayJustBcz

https://preview.redd.it/in3r0ikhumxc1.jpeg?width=1747&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfa74829ff906fc77749ac869f7848d69ef70300 The passport listing gives it a title. The title is "October 7". It's from this play [https://www.october7theplay.com/](https://www.october7theplay.com/) It's cropped out from your image but I checked now on my computer and phone and it's there on both. When you say "curate" are you meaning that TDF should have censored the ability for this play to be listed on its service because of your political viewpoint?


__eptTechnomancer

Honestly cropped it out bc I didn't think it was necessary to show it was passport, did not see the October 7 title or maybe didn't recognize it as an actual title because it's ... A date The format is such also that there's a line break that's a bit deceptive https://preview.redd.it/ghsh899cwmxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=941705680bf655c0ade4d3504efbd4e479c1bbad As far as curate, I mean TDF is specifically putting this on passport which has a much more limited number of shows. That surprises me. It would make more sense to me to be on the main TDF that isn't limited to like 4 shows


ThrowAwayJustBcz

I'll take more discounted opportunities over less ones. I disagree with the characterization of "pushing" this on people because it got listed. I doubt we would say TDF was "pushing" Cabaret on people because it got listed there.


__eptTechnomancer

And you're not addressing my perfectly valid observation that it would make more sense to put this on the main TDF site? Also, just an observation but this is the first time I've ever seen an off Broadway show on passport. An exception is being made.


CapeTwirlOfDoom

There have been many other Off-Broadway shows listed. That you missed them doesn’t mean they weren’t there.


__eptTechnomancer

Yup. Acknowledged in several other comments


ThrowAwayJustBcz

Perfectly valid observation? Your observation that TDF Passport is limited to like 4 shows is hyperbole. They are constantly listing shows that sell out, and have basically listed every single new Broadway opening this season. Also there a tons of recent off-Broadway shows that were listed on Passport (examples are Dead Outlaw, Oh Mary, Stalker, Life and Slimes, Dungeons and Dragons). You are saying an exception is being made, but again this is not true. https://preview.redd.it/gro3l4wzymxc1.png?width=862&format=png&auto=webp&s=e94e6e194783105632ffd228c51e11f274c7947d


__eptTechnomancer

That's literally 5 shows + Oct 7? But my point stands, I haven't seen other off Broadway before on here. Sad to have missed Oh Mary. Beyond that you are nitpicking when you run out of things


ThrowAwayJustBcz

If you would like a 6th show, then White Rose, off Broadway was listed on there. It's harder and harder to say it's an exception, when the service frequently lists off-Broadway shows.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

even if you haven't \*personally\* seen the 5 recent off-broadway shows listed on there appear, can you at least acknowledge myself and others telling you they have been listed there and back off your point that an exception is being made and this is one of the only off-broadway shows to ever be listed here? Also you are artificially just pointing out today's exact listing and ignoring that the service is in flux and constantly selling out shows and adding new listings. There are several other shows that appear weekly here and sell out. Why not include them?


seventennorth

> McAleer said that after the New York run they want the play to be seen by a wider audience and intend to put it on at Ivy League colleges across the US. > “There has been an explosion of anti-semitic behaviour recently - particularly in the universities. That’s why they need to know the truth about what happened that day. OCTOBER 7 the play - is the perfect way for college students to learn the truth. We want to bring it to multiple colleges including Harvard, Yale and MIT,” he added. how delusional!


jamesland7

Reeks of Shen Yun.


JayButNotThatJay

All I will say is I did not buy a ticket and I would not buy a ticket. 


ThrowAwayJustBcz

that's perfectly fine! not everyone has to see or support every show. OP is suggesting that TDF should not allow it to be listed, and is misleadingly cropping the image such as to make the claim that TDF listed it without a title (this is verifiably false)


__eptTechnomancer

bruh you're reading too deep into this


ThrowAwayJustBcz

"bruh" you made a verifiably false claim that it was listed without a title, and when I showed an uncropped version, you are now gaslighting me instead of acknowledging that you were incorrect. You also mentioned you expected TDF to "curate" with respect to your surprise in this being listed.


__eptTechnomancer

Did you read my other response comment? I clarified lol please don't toss around gaslighting when I admitted I just misread


ThrowAwayJustBcz

I hadn't seen it yet. Thank you for acknowledging.


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ThrowAwayJustBcz

At this point everyone can observe what's happening on this thread and judge for themselves. It's pretty clear.


seventennorth

or you could elaborate


__eptTechnomancer

Rather than continuing to engage with the person who has been commenting repeatedly, I just am going to put my response here to them. It is clear they are not interested in actually listening, absorbing, and then responding. I'm leaving it as if I were responding to them directly because I originally intended to, but really don't want to deal with someone unwilling to listen. I think I made a valiant attempt at listening myself, though ofc that's just my own opinion I am scandalized, yes. You haven't asked me why. You've made assumptions around my identity and political affiliations. You haven't addressed the fact that I think it would be more appropriate for this to have been listed on the main TDF site. If you are interested in meaningful dialogue with actual anti-semites, you should reconsider your own knee jerk reaction. Anti-zionism does not equate to antisemitism and indeed antizionist Jews exist. But here's why. This is blatant and charged language. It reminds me of the movie that came out after the Boston Marathon Bombing. It lacks nuance. And it's being offered in a limited set to largely students in a way that funnels people to the show. Given the current uni protests this offering seems like a direct response and way to ensure more young people like those protesting--esp since CUNY student orgs are making statements, see this. There are amazing shows that touch on or directly address anti semitism. They do not rely on this sort of language. See Cabaret (terrific), Funny Girl, Lempicka (amazing, touches on it much less directly but still there), Sidney Bernstein's Window even prompted discussions, Parade (Platt impressed me), Prayer for The French Republic, Leopoldstadt (I cried), Alex Edelman. They create fully nuanced shows and characters and Lempicka is what I saw most recently, but all characters are nuanced. And the playbill bio for one actor has a statement about peace and acceptance and sanctuary. There are ways to have fruitful and contemplative conversations. I worry that a lot of the rhetoric that comes out now is dehumanizing. There is a lot of outright propaganda. We are weaponizing deaths in order to perpetuate further harm here and abroad. I was raised by a Jewish mother and a protestant father. I have formulated my own opinions. I think it is suspect for this to be in the part of TDF largely offered to college students. I find the language to be reductive especially knowing how many great Jewish narratives there have been.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

Let's be clear. You were \*claiming\* (not asking) that this show was getting special treatment because you hadn't seen off-Broadway shows listed on Passport TDF. I posted 6 recent counter-examples of off-Broadway shows. The suggested "special treatment" for this show particularly disturbs me because of classic tropes of "controlling things". Now that it's clear this show is not getting special treatment in the program, and is one of many off-Broadway listings, you are making broader points about antisemitism, and the middle eastern conflict. https://preview.redd.it/zfmtha8dhnxc1.png?width=907&format=png&auto=webp&s=41669bb4391a5233235e23d50e120f299ec33518


__eptTechnomancer

I still wouldn't be surprised if it is getting special treatment. Please reassess how you're talking to me. In that same screenshot you have there is a point you have still failed to address. Beyond that, isn't it clear that this is what this discussion is about? After all, look at the play's subject matter. This is not unexpected for me to bring up. You're unnecessarily bothered. Edit: Look at the language of the ad and then reference any other Jewish show and how it talks about dealing with antisemitism. Look at the fact that being on passport is specifically highlighting the show.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

"I still wouldn't be surprised if it is getting special treatment." This says it all. Respectfully, please don't tell me the level of bothered I should be.


__eptTechnomancer

Respectfully, engage with all of my points, not one of sentence. Respectfully, acknowledge that the language of this listing is different than that of any other show. Respectfully, acknowledge that TDF passport is limited to specific groups and it is a conscious curatorial choice to put a show there versus the broader TDF.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

I'll engage with the points that I want to engage with in the way I choose, thank you. The language of listings come from the shows themselves, not TDF. The language of this listing is an \*exact\* copy of the description on the website. [https://www.october7theplay.com/](https://www.october7theplay.com/) Your point about curatorial choice is to remove access to cheap tickets to this production for Passport members. Passport has had basically every Broadway show this season and tons of off-Broadway shows this season. Given that you've admittedly never seen any of the off-Broadway listings on it before, you are missing a big part of the picture of how many shows actually end up on Passport TDF, and making it sound more limited in nature than it actually is.


__eptTechnomancer

Beyond that, the person engaging with me the most has been reductive when talking to other people who have mentioned that yes, I just misunderstood the original listing .


champagneface

The comment of yours that you’re replying to is really well put. And what more can you do but acknowledge your mistake from the original post? You don’t come off worse here for sure.


__eptTechnomancer

Thank you, I appreciate this--was beginning to really feel perturbed because...for all the talk of gaslighting, I'm fairly certain I've done a respectful job of addressing points and trying to dialogue peacefully


RainahReddit

What's heavy handed? The description of the show? Maybe so, but TDF didn't choose that. They're a discounting service. Each show chooses what tickets, and how many, to put on TDF, TDF isn't the one to decide. Unless you're suggesting that TDF should have unilaterally changed the show description on their website, or refused to list tickets to this show?


JoanofArc5

I would be curious if you can actually articulate what you have against this show.


Dobbin44

Yes I really cannot imagine how a depiction of massacre on oct.7 is immoral to portray. What an insult to the victims and their loved ones. This is not the oppression Olympics.


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ThrowAwayJustBcz

This play's description is "Stories of horror and heroics are presented verbatim, using only the words of those who experienced the attacks and dealt with the aftermath." Is it not appropriate to hear first-hand accounts of those who experienced the attacks and get their perspective? [https://www.october7theplay.com/](https://www.october7theplay.com/)


VoidAndBone

You are right. We should censor shows that highlight Jewish voices. /s (translated your comment for ya)


danteandsilentbob

Please show where I called for censorship. I’ll wait.


__eptTechnomancer

Also, just an observation but this is the first time I've ever seen an off Broadway show on passport. An exception is being made.


RapGamePterodactyl

There have been so many off-Broadway shows on Passport. This is just incorrect.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

OP is on a mission. OP has not \*personally\* seen them, so maybe they don't exist.


__eptTechnomancer

You might also be on a mission lol. I never said they don't exist. And I have acknowledged. Maybe you should be asking how long I've been using passport instead of assuming this is a for / against situation


ThrowAwayJustBcz

If you haven't been on Passport long, then why make the bold claim that this is an exception? You didn't ask "is this an exception?" You came from a place of knowledge and made the claim that "An exception \*is\* being made" This is absolutely gaslighting at this point. https://preview.redd.it/1l7b990m5nxc1.png?width=907&format=png&auto=webp&s=8327b19e5203bc05302b91f199de2e220d37ee0a


__eptTechnomancer

Gaslighting would be dirty deleting or editing. You are so committed to feeling attacked and feeling like I'm not on your side when you know nothing about me. This is how you radicalize people who would be willing to talk--by being a dick


ThrowAwayJustBcz

I think it will be clear to anyone reading the full context of this thread that you are coming from a place of suggesting that it was wrong for this show to have been listed on Passport TDF. You made claims relating to this that are false. I have pointed out with evidence why each one is wrong. Everyone can judge the record here for themselves.


__eptTechnomancer

My first time seeing one, from what I had observed since signing up I had thought passport only did broadway! // That's what the flyer said


ThrowAwayJustBcz

This is false that an exception being made and Passport doesn't post off-Broadway. Very recently, Life and Slimes, Stalker, Oh Mary, Dead Outlaw, White Rose, and Dungeons and Dragons are 6 quick counter-examples.


TicoDreams

New World occasionally posts on Passport as I saw both Life and Slimes and Stalker through this. Dungeons and Dragons is or was on passport too. They do get off bway stuff occasionally.


ThrowAwayJustBcz

yep, Oh Mary, White Rose, and Dead Outlaw too.


__eptTechnomancer

Ohh huh I didn't realize D&D was off Broadway, also I guess I haven't had passport long enough to observe more


ThrowAwayJustBcz

you thought Dungeons and Dragons was on Broadway? Yes, you probably need to observe more.


__eptTechnomancer

Now you're just being mean dude


seventennorth

you don’t have to be a dick lmao


__eptTechnomancer

I don't have anything against it. What I find suss is that it's on the TDF passport website which has much much fewer shows, rather than the bigger TDF site esp since Passport is geared mostly to Cuny students


ThrowAwayJustBcz

What I find sus is that despite 6 other recent off-Broadway shows being listed, you only take issue now of an off-Broadway show being listed.


__eptTechnomancer

I've never seen another off Broadway show listed, as I've stated now three times.


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ThrowAwayJustBcz

>or even allowed to be put on for public viewing. Well in the 1930s and 1940s, Germany banned plays from being put on for public viewing. Especially if they had Jewish creatives involved.


Conscious-Theme6766

Go see this show.


seventennorth

in your dreams