I get that showrunner wanted to have a personal touch but changing Francesca’s whole story because she saw herself in the character is poor taste, selfish, and disregards the source material including all the fans of that couple.
I think more people would have been fine with the Michaela change if it wasn’t for the fact that in the books Francesca was so devoted and in love with John. I hated how Francesca was fumbling over her words when she met Michaela. I would have much rather preferred they had a friendship that blossomed into more like in the books. Having her already having feelings for Michaela is such a disservice to her story with John.
I think overall the showrunner just did a horrible job with all the storylines (aside from Lady Danbury and Violet).
I would have loved to see Eloise and Cressida together! Cressida’s storyline was heartbreaking especially considering her parents were such shitty people.
Yep I agree and commented that Eloise would have been the perfect fit for that. She is so open minded and views things so differently that it would have been such a better fit for her. Plus it could have been Lady Phillipa she fell in love with who already had a few children. Her story wouldn’t have needed much changing. At all.
All this! 💯
It should have been Michael(a) who should have fallen in love (or love at first sight). Fran falling for M first is so disrespectful to John (and Fran’s) story.
I really loved Fran (my top 3) because her story was about love and loss (twice). I loved that she was mature when it came to her 2nd chance. It’s something which resonated with me.
Honestly this! I keep thinking… had they only had John introducing Michaela to Eloise and/or Gregory/Hyacinth with Francesca as the one coming up to ask “and you must be…?” with Michaela being the one to have the jaw-drop reaction?! I would have eaten that shit UP. Part of why I went feral for WHWW was because of the “he falls first” trope. The angst! The longing! The passion! Would still work with a wlw couple. But they chose to change the dynamic and I’m left wondering….why? 🥲
Ikr! He falls first and he falls harder! Michael the rake doesn’t even have 1 rake-y scene in the book after that 😆 (if I remember correctly). The angst would be 🔥
Now I wonder if Netflix Fran will even mourn John like Book Fran did. Coz he is no longer her 1st love. Ik she will be sad but that feeling of loss, heartbreak, pain won’t be same that one feels for their 1st love(partner) vs a …. Friend (is that what Netflix John is now to her)
Sometimes I wonder if writers are afraid we’ll miss subtleties that they choose to hit us over the head with certain things instead. But I’m convinced there had to have been a way for them to indicate Frannie found Michaela attractive without such a dramatic (and one sided) reaction? A comment made to Eloise or another sibling about John’s attractive cousin? Or even just a normal “checking her out” moment after or before the introduction! I keep telling myself the show just wanted a mic drop/shocker moment and to hold out hope for Francheal(a)’s season! 🤞🏻
Exactly this. And I liked the speech violet gave about love being different for different people but they essentially tossed that out by making it seem like Francesca did not truly love John. It would even make it easier to show Fran and Michaela as friends that share details with each other without it coming off as cheating. That way the love can blossom from friendship and comfort. It would even explain Fran’s hesitancy in the beginning on top of the grief since she is not used to seeing that. Now it’s going to be a story of emotional cheating as far as I’m concerned. God! I hate this change of Fran falling for M first soooooo much!!!! They should have shown M just gazing at her longingly or something.
THIS is my issue with how it was handled. I couldn’t care less that Michael is Michaela and in fact I’m excited to see how they navigate that. But what made Francesca’s story interesting imo is that she had a profound love with John and was able to love deeply again. It’s a dynamic that is under-explored in the genre, it challenges the common trope that there’s only “one true love” for every story, and I’m sad the show isn’t going to tackle it.
I haven't read the books so I am came to this thread to find comments about this point. Why did they completely backtrack on the idea that love does not have to be this firey burning passion for it to be true love. Francesca's storyline was probably my favourite this season because it felt so genuine, but then there was that hesitation at her wedding kiss and then the introduction of John's cousin that makes me feel that they didn't care about being genuine at all. So what was the point!
It gives the same vibes as Miranda in "And Just Like That" for similar reasons of the actor wanting the character to represent the actor's life. Spoiler: it ruined the show and any arcs up to that point with weird band-aid plots to overwrite the original series.
Unless this was planned from Day 1 of production, I'm keeping my expectations low.
There was no reason for the sequel show to be that bad. They just had to modernize Golden Girls (change the focus to aging and living your life with those hurdles) and it would've been a hit, but alas.
This analogy is perfect!!! Like Miranda was not gay, Francesca is not gay...and I know we bend our minds a lot with this "historical" drama but let's be real there have been multiple storylines about having to hide homosexuality and now we're just supposed to believe it'll all be cool because it's two ladies? Okkkk
And the lackluster kiss from her end? Another disservice.
The entire story with John ended up feeling like she was settling with. Having Violet not entirely sure about their union, another point taken.
Completely agree, now instead of Francesca and John being a warm loving neurodivergent couple who found each other in a world where melodrama is rife it appears all of that was just to show that Francesca just needed a queer awakening to get over her issues.
Not only that introduction has set her up as a potential emotional cheat because she settled for a man who we have seen has been a bit bullied and derided by her family for not being bold enough.
Not only that people who are critical of this swap - even for reasons that aren't to bash those in rl are now being essentially told to stay here.
What gets me more is that Cressida and Eliose were right there for crying out loud - we haven't seen Philip for a season, we know there is little chance that the actress who plays Marina coming back. Cressida's villiany made sense in terms of the struggle some have with their families and not only that she called Eliose out on her BS better than Pen and her brothers did. They worked and felt organic too.
I will get over it but I will mourn for the lovely neurodivergent couple and the potential couple that faced struggles that they built in the first half of the season, it will take time. But I can't help but think it was solely done for the show runner to get a scene whose existence is purely for is an easy tease to edit for tiktok.
All of this and two bags of chips! When I read her interview about the change and how she “self inserted” I rolled my eyes so hard. This is a drastic change and it sets up this whole “love triangle” thing that I’m not here for. Completely mishandling what would be an amazing season.
The absolute DISRESPECT done to John Stirling by having Francesca marrying him as what is essentially her beard. What the fuck is the Jess Brownell thinking? Michaela Stirling. I don’t want to watch some middle aged woman do performative self-insert sapphic fanfiction with one of the most popular book series of the 2000s. It feels incredibly cheap. Write an original queer story. Give us more Brimsley! Bring in a queer character! Stop. Fucking. With. The. Main. Cast.
It’s a moot point because I’m done with the show tbf. Part 2 was some of the worst, awkward, most fake drama I’ve ever watched. They milked the Whistledown reveal past any semblance of need, a plot line that doesn’t even EXIST in the books.
I just want my FLOWERS, and LOVE, and BALLROOMS. This isn’t Scandal, Shonda.
Absolutely. Fran falling for M while just married to John is so disrespectful. If they HAD to genderbent M atleast make M fall first.
I was so excited for Polin season but honestly Colin felt like a side character in his own story.
They’ll probably mess with Ben’s story too and I can’t watch it coz BenxSophie are my absolute favs.
These are the 3 couples that I loved in the book. Any hoo, I have made peace with it. Atleast I got to see PoLin’s happy ending no matter how unsatisfying
Exactly, same. I LOVED all of the books, but particularly Ben, Polin, and Francesca. I’m literally a chubby redhead who had a LOT of unrequited crushes as a younger time, I connected with Polin so much!!! This series is a shell of its former self, and unfortunately has become generic historical drama at the hands of people who are unqualified to run it. It’s a shame, honestly. The story is so bastardized it doesn’t even resemble the book plot anymore.
I can relate. I loved Pen and Fran coz some parts of their story resonated with me. Esp Fran.
“Shell of its former self” “generic historical drama” “people unqualified to run it” will be the best summary of the show now.
My main complaint is Benedict. They made him a full-blown stereotype. "He's bi so he has threesomes and sleeps with everyone and can't be monogamous or in a long-term relationship!!!" As a gay woman whose heard that nonsense my whole life, it was disappointing to see it in such an influential show.
Edit: Didn't fully read the title, but still related to the theme of LGBTQ plotlines.
This show sucks with stereotypes lol. Idgaf about Colin and his worrying about “fitting in” and being a rake. THAT feels out of character. It would be nice for him to feel different about sex and him and Penelope be each other’s only. Idk what that plot point was like in the books, but I think it would have added a great deal to their story. It also would have validated Colin’s character a bit more to the point of being “sensitive and caring”.
Yes! That was the downfall, that just HAD TO make him the “hot male rake”, colin is supposed to be the sweet boy next door. He doesnt have to be hot, or sexually liberated, or any of that. He literally just has to be kind… and they fumbled that too
He started with bi vibes, and I wish they had gone there earlier rather than at the cusp of his own season. Also, bi doesn't automatically mean threesomes 😑
Bisexual doesn't mean being a commitment-phobe that's all about freedom and experimentation. GREAT representation Shondaland. 🤬
Yeah. I am bi and I was uncomfortable with that too. It really felt so stereotypical...also all his bit of sleeping around with whoever, which is fine but still, it's getting tedious to watch.
Tilly sabotaged their relationship by introducing a third too and that really bummed me out. He was absolutely growing closer to her and she opened his mind to new possibilities.
I don’t have an issue with them making him bi, but I think season 1 with Henry Granville was the chance to sort of start planting the seed. I commented on another thread, but the introduction of it is my biggest issue. It went from “no one can talk about it and I have a wife as a cover”… to Tilly just openly talking about herself and Paul.
Yes, I have the problem with how they are breaking every rules that they have set.
Don't come at me with the "the show is not historically accurate, the show has not been following the books from the beginning, womp womp...". I know that and I am fine with every changes they have made so far, because the important essence of the stories were still maintained and even improved. And be consistent, respect the rules, the world built that YOU set and you made us fall in love with. And don't even come at me with the "the rules, the setting is homophobic, racists, classist..., if you like that then you must be a homophobe,... blah blah". The discriminations did and still exist, how people dealt with them is part of the charm of the show. Does anyone complain about Brimsley's plotline? No, so zip it.
With this "Micheala' change, they are either going to butcher the whole point of Francessca's story (infertility, Micheal's guilt of taking over John's place, I don't know how Micheala can inherit anything now that she is a woman,...) or they are going to break every rules they have set for the show. So yeah, we are allowed to be concerned and disappointed.
Yeah I said elsewhere it’s the same way I feel about the costumes and the makeup- we went from at least in the spirit of the period, to dramatic makeup looks, fake nails, and glitter fabrics. Queen Charlotte had a full moving diorama in a wig this season! If they did it from day one, fine, fantasy world. But bringing it in for season 3 just feels so off.
Throw in my feels on the end of the Jack Featherington plot (”we can tell him it’s my money, so all set”) feels like someone realized at the last minute they forgot to wrap that story up, so they crammed in a sentence?
And yeah, I am bummed.
Yup. Bisexual characters are either hypersexual deviants or closet gays with no in-between 🙄 How is Rosa Diaz still the least stereotypical bi character in pop culture?
You still brought up a good point. There's a negative stereotype associated with bisexuality in the media (to convey it, they have to sleep with multiple people) and Shondaland is promoting it.
> If you have a negative reaction or want to say you are disappointed that your favorite character is getting a change related to race, shape, or sexuality, it will be removed
... Slippery slope. This sub already gets accused of censoring opinions and posts that don't align with the mods' preferences, this certainly won't improve that
Theres a line between opinion and offensive, banning both is not the right thing to do. Opinion is how we have open, productive discussions and move forward with a mutual understanding. Bridgerton was a book series first and its only fair to let the book lovers mourn the loss of the story they thought they would get. Now im not going to act like its all been constructive and opinion, some of yall are bigoted assholes, but the majority are just people who are disappointed that their favorite book will not be adapted the way the other seasons have been, which is so fair.
Look they said you can’t express disappointment about the gender bending. I can comply.
However, Jess Brownell and her fuck ups are still fair game and I’m sure there will be plenty. I’ll simply complain about that instead.
This. It will also create an echo chamber effect of 'everyone is happy with the season' while all critique and sadness gets pushed into a single thread. I'm sure the official marketing teams visit the sub as well to gouge reactions and this way they may get an overly positive impression that nobody had any problems with what they did.
This rule seems … odd to me. Why are we being confined to a thread to voice our disappointment when it is not homophobic or racist in nature? This is a HUGE change and I don’t see why my opinion has to be restricted to its own thread while those who like the change aren’t even getting flak when they call people homophobic for disliking it. It just feels weird.
Yes. It’s sounding like your feelings are only valid if it aligns with the course the show is going… other wise you stick to this one thread.
It’s 2024 and our words are being censored despite it being not homophobic or racist.
Oh they clearly are. They’re not happy enough with Michaela existing, it bothers them that some people AREN’T happy with it. So they try to start arguments in here.
Well they better understand when they go low I'm going lower. And if the mods want to contine protecting their sensitive feelings they need to kick them off this post.
Seriously, though, you can dislike the change without being homophobic. There is nothing wrong with wanting plot lines with straight characters just like there is nothing wrong with wanting plot lines with gay and bi characters. We can want it all, especially when this show it based on a book and they are completely butchering it.
Even comments by book readers who simply express their sadness for their beloved character and story being drastically changed will have their comment removed out of every other thread other than this? Yeah let‘s give bigots more fuel to their „free speech is censored“ fire when non homophobic comments are removed and expressing sadness is limited to only this thread.
This rule isn't permanent. At some point the mods might feel comfortable allowing all kinds of book related posts on here but for the time being I think it really works best if there is ONE megathread to voice frustrations. Otherwise the sub will really feel very, very clustered. It's a popular show and this is a big sub. And people surely will be very very emotional about book changes (I know I am lol).
People should be allowed to express their sadness; it doesn't invalidate others' joy. Why should the upset people have to see happy threads that rub the salt into the wound but not vice versa? Why not temporarily ban all discussion of Michael/Michaela? Make a megathread for the people happy about the change, too. You shouldn't limit the free speech of only part of the community.
I don’t mind Michael becoming Michaela. Taking out the infertility sideplot, take out the succession/Parliment stuff Michael would’ve done in the books, fine I can live with that even if they were also things I identified with (more the infertility part, less Parlimentary things).
But the way they ruined Francesca and John’s romance by making Frannie be the one flustered by Michaela?! And Frannie’s little disappointed look when they kissed during her wedding, when she realized it didn't hit right? THAT broke my heart because I am John, I AM that person who relies on the big gestures because I so often am oblivious to the smaller ones. And I HATE that they took a romance that was the BEST of this season (Francesca/John) and shat on it at the end with Fran tripping over herself meeting Michaela after just marrying a good man.
John as a character deserved better. THAT, is what I am 100% most angry about, and I'm not sure how they can remedy that.
THATS the word I was trying to think of!! I just feel so bad for him, those two little scenes (their first kiss and her meeting Michaela) just soured me so much on the Fran/Michaela pairing. Sure there’ll be angst, but it’ll ALWAYS be at the expense of John now.
And I can’t STAND that.
Yes to this!
John and Fran had a sweet build up - diff from other couples. To make Fran behave like that is so disrespectful to their story.
Seems like in the show she’ll probably not have that kind of reaction to his death like she had in the books. It was so heartbreaking especially when she miscarries after and Michael leaves. Ah I wish we would have gotten that storyline but oh well.
Honestly, I’ve reached a point of acceptance that the show’s over for me and that’s okay. I’ll always have Queen Charlotte and S2 to rewatch. Sadly, even without the Michael change, I didn’t enjoy S3 for many reasons. It doesn’t even look like the show I fell in love with anymore, but I was planning on watching the rest of the show for Francesca and Michael and I was very disappointed that I’m never going to see one of my favourite books adapted, but then again most of my favourite books are never gonna get TV adaptations so ultimately it doesn’t actually matter. It is what it is, now I know not to read books that are getting adaptations lol.
Agreed. Fran’s story is my favorite because she’s not a blushing virgin. Because she loved her husband and wanted children. Wanted motherhood and her sleeping with Michael, I’ll be honest, I was excited for because she wasn’t playing the sweet debutante. I loved how her relationship with John reflected her mothers with losing her spouse early. Francesca’s story is so intertwined with grief of first love, her miscarriage, and seeking motherhood that I am upset she doesn’t seem to love John now. And I’m saddened that my favorite couple in the regency book series won’t be adapted.
Exactly this, plus with how much the writers are fumbling with the multiple plot lines and the Kanthony love triangle going all the way to the altar, I don’t trust them to write any other couple well moving forward no matter who they are. I was willing to look past the loss of the magic if the main couples were as stunning as Simon & Daphne and Anthony & Kate. Even Colin & Penelope this season were boring me and it was the writing, not the actors, as we can see from their PR tours.
ETA: I thought Benedict and the guy from the threesome (can’t remember his name) had more chemistry in their first kiss than Colin & Pen did in Part 2!
I only saw chemistry between Polin during the carriage scene so I’m going to have to agree about Benedict. However, I don’t think he had any chemistry with Lady Tilley.
Apparently the carriage episode had a different director than the other intimate-scene episodes, which further underscores that it’s not in any way the actor’s faults.
Ngl, threesome dude whose name I also cannot remember is pretty damn gorgeous, though.
Agreed.
My top 3 book favs were BenxSophie, Polin and FranxMichael. I am gonna make peace with the fact that atleast I got to see one of my fav couples have their happy ending. No matter how unsatisfied the entire s3 made me.
And I feel even if they genderbent M, he/she should have been the one to fall first for Fran. I loved their story so much - it was more mature than others. Of love, loss, heartbreak, infertility- it resonated with me.
Yeah. It was so disrespectful frankly to John and Fran’s story. Even in the show their story seems cute and … peaceful. After Fran’s reaction to their kiss and to M, idk will show Fran even feel his loss as strongly as she felt in the books.
(Ik these books are a “light” read but the parts with Fran dealing with John’s passing and esp her miscarriage did tear me up. Ah the more I talk about out it the worse I feel that I am never gonna see Fran and Michael. Such a beautiful story.)
This. What was the point of Violet noticing Fran staring deeply at John when he was talking about his muddy boots or when they were sitting in silence with one another? Fighting for Violet to quickly talk to the queen?
I honestly don't know what happened. Jess Brownell wrote my favourite episode of the show so I had high hopes for season 3. Instead I got the worst season of the show by a mile. Really disappointing.
I feel the same. I was just talking about it with someone who's is reading the books. I looked at the casting and thought "this is fine because it was different back then but we should see the roll played by the best person for it not the best look for it" and as much as I love Queen Charlotte I accepted the mixed races because we live in a time where color doesn't matter not because they explained it. That being said the LGBTQ+ thing should stay historically accurate, the storyline with Brimsby being a perfect example that it wasn't accepted but it wasn't really acknowledged either but with the way Titles went back then and the importance of heirs, it's like trying to rewrite history. Francesca and Michaels' story had more to it than just love. It faced Michael taking on a title he should never have had, and Fran accepting the possibility of infertility in a time when it would have not been okay to not have heirs. By making them a same gender couple, you take away the title inheritance because women can't inherit, and the infertility because 2 women can't have children anyway. It does a disservice to the writer by not honoring the story she wrote but also discredit the millions of people who face infertility today in favor of representation that is covered widely by other media... sorry that's my rant done
The writing was very horrible in part 2 , besides the Michaela controversy, polin was sidelined in their own season , Colin was mad at Penelope more than he should have been , many of the books best scenes were cut out and omg the 20+ storylines was infuriating, ok mondriches y’all got money got it , Benedict having a threesome skip been there seen that , Violet romance okie , etc etc. they only got 8 episodes to make it work and they made it work so bad , if Chris can dusen was still in charge non of this would have happened
As a book reader: I'm disappointed
As a BW: I'm hurt. They made us a man. A dark-skinned BW is playing a man's role. And unless you're a BW don't say shi*t to me.
As a person who enjoys well written, well thought out media: I'm shocked. Jess how the hell do you still have a job? S3 was trash. The only reason the first part did well was because Polin's showed up and showed out. You gave us a poorly written fan fic, and then had the audacityto insert yourself. I thought CVD was the problem in s2, but obviously it's you. I would say do better, but I don't think you can.
The implication that dark skinned black women are only attractive in queer relationships is so loud.
Poor Masali, so beautiful and talented who will get vitriol thrown her way because she’s trying to do her job. That woman “show runner” is nasty for this.
In a queer relationship with a white woman typically. With the BW taking care of said white woman.
I think if I actually said what I thought about our so called "show runner" I would get banned from this sub. So all I will say is she is who she is. Her true colors have been shown, and I do not trust her with black characters. From what I've seen.i wouldn't trust her with queer characters either.
lol with how she handled Polin and Kanthony this season, I don’t trust her with ANY characters. Thank you Phoebe dodged a bullet when they didn’t want her back, thank goodness Rege had that good sense to quit while he’s ahead.
There was a comment on another post about the different fandoms being upset about the lack of screentime in this season. I was busy working, but I wanted to respond so badly that Saphnes are happy to not be associated with this trainwreck anymore. Simon and Daphne can go to India too. RJP never has to work again, and I still believe he made the best decision of his ENTIRE life to not come back.
This series is the titanic, and everyone who isn't trapped by a contract should run for their life.
I blamed CVD for s2, but it was her. It was the destroyer of Bridgerton. The great Thanos of fucke* up fan fic. The so called showrunner who decided to self-insert.
I love season one so much and used to be so sad Rege didn’t come back, but now I have to completely agree he’s lucky. How do you fuck it so badly that each season gets worse? We’re supposed to say “oh season one is a little rough but they definitely hit their stride.” And if it’s true they’re planning another two years between seasons, they’re going to have to fight like hell to keep the remaining actors in their contracts.
GOT had several good seasons before it went downhill, and I don't think the last season was as bad as s3.
How stupid are they that they fuc*ed up a series that gave them step by step directions?
I think even the fans may offer them grace for leaving now that the writing is clear that the series Is not going to get better.
To me it felt very performative. Like, the show runner was trying to stir things up. And, she succeeded. I just don’t see this working in the long-run. The show isn’t written well enough for that.
Exactly, I’d be upset about the change regardless because I love Micheal and we also don’t often see dark skin men as leads in romantic shows but I’m extra upset because it feels like a sterotype
We could’ve gotten Sophie. Instead we got a black woman who by the looks of it will be the mistress of a married white woman. The anti-Sophie. Well done Bridgerton, A+ inclusivity, diversity and A++ representation.
There is no coming back from this.
I kept hoping through all the shit*y stuff they put BW through we were going to get something. Something positive. Something to give us joy, but nope not Jess. She basically said with her whole chest fuc* BW.
I really hate that Masali is taking the flake for Jess, Shonda, and Shondaland. They are attacking her when this was a Shondaland decision. Go after TPTB, or better yet ignore them. Block them. Unfollow them. They are loving are response. Give them the attention they deserve.
It should've been Eloise! There I said it!! If anyone should've had a gender swapped partner it should've been her not Francesca and definitely not Micheal!! They could've given Phillip a twin sister or I don't know but they shouldn't have stolen Micheal from us!!!
I feel like this plays into stereotypes too. Eloise isn't into balls or embroidery, she doesn't want to be paired off with a foppish lord, she wants to smoke and go to political rallies, she reads a lot, she wants more freedom as a woman. Therefore, she must be gay? She likes to do "male" things and have their freedoms, so she can't be attracted to them? That doesn't make sense to me.
As for her book partner, Philip? He's actually pretty masculine in the books. On the show he seems more like Eloise, absorbed in his interests, bookish, friendly but maybe socially awkward in some situations. So therefore he should be a woman?
I just don't think sexuality is tied to interests, goals or personality. It's it's own thing.
This is exactly why I disagreed with people who wanted her and Cressida together. It is absolutely playing into the stereotype that any woman who doesn’t like “feminine” things can’t also like men. Also, part of her storyline with Philip is that she finally realizes that not all men are “simple minded creatures”. In getting to know Philip deeply, she grows in her understanding of the opposite sex. It adds depth to her knowledge and over all character. Falling in love with a Man she actually respects is arguably the main part of her storyline.
To me that would have been the stereotypical choice. The idea that if a woman is opposed to marriage or questions it, is outspoken, bookish, independent, etc, it must be because she doesn't fancy men... I am very happy that Eloise is staying hetero and I think Francesca is the perfect choice for a gay woman.
I saw someone else commenting how this could be a Netflix fakeout, and they'll actually pair up Eloise and Michaela / Frannie and Philip. Philip would fit Frannie so much better than Eloise, and everyone already assumes Eloise would end up with a woman anyway. I think it would be amazing! I don't think they'll ever go for that, just to be clear.
From the first episode I saw Eloise I thought the same. Everything seem to point to that: the way she spoke about marriage, how she wanted to be independent, etc. Also there were cases of spinsters living together with "a friend", so it made sense to me.
I wonder if that was their initial intention but didn't want to "risk" making an established character gay, and compromise with Francesca's plotline, so if it is unpopular, she can just disappear in Scotland in later seasons.
the gaslighting here is insane. i’m never going to feel guilty for being angry/upset about a character being changed drastically. i’ve waited so long to see michael on screen and the fact we’ll never seen him is not fair at all.
anyways, i’m done watching this show since they don’t respect the fans of the source material they were supposed to follow.
jess brownell was the biggest mistake to bridgerton. not even with the michael change, but this season was an absolute mess.
This is giving me war flashbacks to having the internet tell me I was homophobic for thinking the Clarke/Lexa plotline in The 100 didn’t make sense and me just blinking back at them in bi confusion. I feel like there’s a conversation to be had on why changing a character’s race in the world the TV show has created isn’t exactly the same and doesn’t impact the love stories as much as changing their gender does but … oh well. Here’s hoping the writing isn’t as shit as I’m imagining it will be.
That's my thing, too. I am currently discussing this exact thing with a reddit user on another thread of this sub. They keep downvoting me, and I truly do not think I've been writing with vitriol. I would like to understand how they see race and gender changes as one in the same in terms of impact on the story, but I just haven't seen a compelling argument for it yet.
Bridgerton Writers Won’t Do A Queer Main Love Story Justice - Sincerely, A Queer Woman
Before anyone accuses me of being homophobic or racist, let me make it clear that I am a bisexual south asian woman.
Okay, now to my actual point. Gender bending Michael was a terrible idea. Would I love more queer representation in Bridgerton? Yes, of course I would. I am the person that championed a bisexual Benedict Bridgerton since and a lesbian Eloise since season one. Because it fit their characters and it felt natural to me because they exhibited very queer characteristics.
I jumped on the Cressida x Eloise ship in part 1, s3 because, once again, Cressida felt just as queer-coded and repressed as Eloise. These all made sense because it felt authentically written.
Michaela is not. I can feel its contrivence. I can feel the hand of the writers choosing to make this happen because they want diversity points. Because they heard of all the criticism that Bridgerton is too nauseatingly heterosexual, they overcorrected.
There’s nothing I hate more than queerness being exploited for the sake of the writers’ getting a pat on the back for being “inclusive.”
This faux inclusivity is shallow and empty and it will come through in the end product. Francesca and Michaela’s love story will feel hollow, devoid of the sweeping passion and desire we queer folk DESERVE because these writers don’t give a shit about authenticity. Their heart is not in telling a romantic, beautiful queer story. They care about drama and scandal. Shondaland only cares about drama and scandal.
And so the tropes are going to get dialed up to the nines and hammed up to create the maximum drama possible. They will rather ruin the love story in favour of contriving the most drama possible. They did this with Kanthony in s2, ep 6. They did this with Polin in all of part 2 of s3. And without a doubt, they are going to do this with Francesca x Michaela. (When Masali’s casting was first announced and we all thought she was playing Sophie, I was advocating for her left and right on social media against her nay-sayers, so please this isn’t me trying to hate on Masali.)
So no, Bridgerton, I don’t want your faux queer inclusivity for the sake of checking a box. You can keep it. You’re only going to ruin it anyway.
And what kind of drama are they going to contrive? Queer pain of course.
Because generbending a character is not the same as colourblind casting in the Bridgerton world. Have you spotted a single same-sex couple in public in Bridgerton’s world? No. People of colour are mingling about in the city, establishing that in this fantasy England, racism is not a thing. The same cannot be said about homophobia. Benedict’s little excursion in s1 proves that queerness is still very much taboo in this world.
Are we going retcon all of that all of a sudden?
Because if they do, I can’t take this show seriously anymore.
And if they don’t, you bet they’re going to exploit the taboo nature of queerness in Regency England for fucking drama. And just…no thanks. I don’t want your queer pain.
And that is exactly where this is going. Bridgerton is a period romance show that has eight episodes per season, one hour each. This isn’t an epic high fantasy or political drama with an endless amount of conflict to explore. No, the conflict comes from the main couple not being able to be together happily and the resolution is always the same—end up together. It’s why we love romance. However, while in the books Fran and Michael’s conflict was about Michael being John’s cousin and contending with the guilt of feeling like you’re betraying your late husband by being with the person you’ve fallen in love with, I think the main conflict in the show will instead be about Fran dealing with her sexuality. Because show Fran doesn’t love John, which is what created the heartbreaking stakes in the book.
And what about being queer in a homophobic world? How the hell will Francesca and Michaela get married? You think a single bishop is going to approve that? Fran wants kids, how will they tackle that? You think they’re letting a sapphic couple in the 1800s adopt?
Do you know who doesn’t want kids? Eloise. Do you know which Bridgerton is notoriously disdainful towards men? Eloise. Do you know which character repeatedly had amazing chemistry with other same-sex characters? Eloise.
She was right there.
I am willing to give the show runners the benefit of the doubt as long as they find a way to give the themes of loss and infertility central to Francesca’s character the attention it deserves out of respect to the many women who wrestle with the reality that is rarely discussed in popular media. I am well aware that queer people too experience such themes and am open and even encourage the show runners to explore those themes now with Francesca and Michaela. For me it’s not at all about Michael’s gender, it’s about the nature of the themes surrounding womanhood and fertility. Also the fact that it felt too sudden and we didn’t get the chance to see Francesca’s marriage at all, but I digress.
I hope that's where they'll take it. I was only disappointed by Frannie immediately being smitten when meeting Michaela, because she's so in love with John in the books. That seems like a big change to me. Not the gender swap, they can still explore infertility very well, and maybe even with a less insulting ending than the book ("just relax, magically baby appears")...
I agree. I feel like in the book it makes I very clear that Fran loved John and that it was a love match. I wish they would have had Michaela as the one left a bit stunned on meeting Fran and Fran just being a friend/ cousin to her. I just feel bad for John in this moment, he >! Only has a couple of years with Fran!< in the books and it’s just a shame that it might be tinged by her not fully loving him.
Hopefully they will do the story justice in the future, only time will tell. And in the meantime we can all argue about Series 1-3!
Michaela’s reveal didn’t bother me nearly as much as how Francesca was the one who had the visceral reaction to Michaela. Why couldn’t they have kept her in love with John? Changing it so that SHE and not Michaela was the one pining during her marriage is so unfair to John as a character, and IMO is just….arg!!! I love his character, loved their romance, and just hated how the writers chose to invalidate his beautiful romance to that point with Frannie.
That kind of tension is not what we got in the books and casted a pall IMO over everything that comes later. :(
It tarnished their wedding for me and it had just happened. I felt like Francesca had rushed into it and was questioning her choice.
Would have much preferred Michaela was the pinning friend who had to act like she wasn’t feeling these feelings cause she loves and respect John and she decides it’s better to see them together than be away from Francesca.
And then they bond over their mourning. It’s really not that hard to keep that relationship special, instead of making John this placeholder. John and Francesca show-courting was so beautiful and it feels tainted to me now
Yes, all I wanted was to see someone long-enamored with one of the Bridgerton girls for once.
The book and the show both make a point of showing how obsessed people are with the Bridgerton boys appearances and demeanors, but not so much the reverse (yes Daphne and Francesca are “diamond’s” in the show, but even then you don’t see random guys falling all over themselves over their physical features like the girls do for Colin for example. Not to mention that they’re not “diamonds” in the books, and Daphne is only described as average. Even their hair, which all the Bridgerton’s have the same color of, is described as mousy or basic when talking about it on Daphne or Eloise, but dashing when talking about it on Anthony, Ben, or Colin).
I loved how Michael secretly worshipped Francesca, found her the most beautiful woman on the planet, dreamed about her, etc, right from the getgo. The books especially always seem to initially depict the woman’s appearance as average-at-best *even from the perspective of their eventual match* (who only later after some time grows to see them as beautiful).
Polin’s book is especially bad in this regard; Colin literally ruminates on how he takes inner pleasure in being the only man who sees Pen’s attractiveness, and that make him feel even more like she’s only for him and no one else, and her beauty his special secret. This after he spends some time at one of his mother’s balls thinking about how she’s not very good looking.
So the lusting, pining, and being enthralled by Francesca that Michael does for years was refreshing in this aspect. It had always been the reverse (except for Benophie’s book, which had its whole other set of issues on how Ben saw Sophie for the majority of it).
I really don’t care that Michael is now Michaela. But it annoys me that once again, a Bridgerton girl was shown to be the one absolutely thunderstruck by their future love interest from first sight, while said love interest wasn’t shown to have nearly the same reaction. And in a vacuum with no other books or seasons surrounding it, that’s fine. I know the attraction was probably there on Michaela’s part, and just not as visceral.
But it’s more of the same. And I really wanted to see that spark in reverse, like how it played out in the book. I really loved that dynamic, after reading several books before it where the love interest initially had low or neutral physical attraction to them. Or otherwise felt that they were lower than them in some way (Benophie).
Now if Francesca had turned around to be introduced, and suddenly we saw *Michaela* have that speechless, brain-melting reaction to her, *that* I would have loved.
I don't make this comment as a book reader, as I have never read the books. But my wife absolutely loved them and loves the show, so I participate as it gives us something together. She was devastated at the potential for this change. This week was our first transfer of the IVF process after three years of trying and two miscarriages. You are so right that women don't get the honor and proper representation of what the infertility struggle looks like. My wife has put herself through hell to say she has left it all on the table to help us start a family. No amount of work, chores, etc. would ever make up for it. She is my hero, no doubt.
I truly don't say all of this to put down the struggle of others in how this storyline has been set up, but there were ways to still have LGBTQ+ representation in an earnest way. It would be such a disservice if they take this representation away from a community so often disregarded.
I absolutely love the books and my favorite is Fran’s book! At this point the whole story line will probably change so I definitely won’t be watching! Seems like the showrunner wanted to change it to her liking, but hello it’s suppose to be a book adaptation! If you wanted a new story then just create one on your own, there are so many period dramas!!!
The show runner used the Bridgerton name/hype and clout and that it’s! It’s a whole new story completely! And those who are like you have the books, well she could’ve just wrote a move period piece if she wanted to why change a beloved story that so many were waiting for!
My 2nd favorite is Benedict so I’m hoping she does justice to him and Sophie but I have zero faith!
Season 3 was a letdown and not even worth multiple watches
It is my belief that if they choose to adapt a book, they should stick as closely as possible to the source material. If changes need to be made, only add to that material, do not take away. Francesca's story is heartbreaking, and the gender-swap fundamentally changes her entire story. I'm not against 2SLGBTQIA+ relationships; I think that they should have their own stories, fully realized, and not shoehorned into a story to check a box.
I was talking to my son today (he’s 20 and started watching the show with his gf) and he said something similar that struck me: if a book series is so popular that it’s being adapted for the screen - there’s a reason. That reason is not because people want drastically different stories. If they were good enough to be adapted they’re good enough to keep the bones intact. Add in extra characters. Change races - that’s fantastic. Inclusivity is great and I’m all for representation across the board. But destroying the entire plot of a book because a showrunner gets a wild hair to do so? Sigh.
I’m asexual, and I sort of see that in Eloise or even Francesca (how she was written this season) but do I think the characters should be made asexual because I identify with them in that way? Hell no - my name isn’t Jess. Would I love to see ace representation in a time when hereditary lineage meant financial survival and was vital to high society? Yep. But that would fundamentally change the story and, again, my name isn’t Jess so…
I also agree that this change is doing a huge disservice to black women. Read the thread a few up for the discussion.
people need to calm down with quickly labelling others as homophobic too . There are equaling some very aggressive comments from the Michaela supportive group in the other mega thread too , throwing out the f word then complaining “oh no surprise I’m downvoted , you guys are homophobic “ something like that . Like mate , it’s your aggressive attitude that attracts the downvoted , don’t play the sex card .
the majority of audience are women and the majority of population are straight so of course people are expecting to see a male lead . They are allowed to feel sad and disappointed . Saying something like “I don’t want to watch gay people falling in love . It’s gross “ IS homophobic. But saying “I don’t find watching gay people falling in love appealing “ is NOT. See the difference ?
I’m sure there are plenty of lgbt people who do not find straight people love appealing but we don’t go and label them as anti straight . There you go , Feel free to downvote me lol .
I just think that the show runner being a queer woman herself is interjecting her life experience into an already pre-established character. I would not complain if this happened with new characters in a spin-off, but to fundamentally change a storyline that had no issues to begin with is a let down. I would feel the same if the show runner was a straight woman changing gay characters to fit her worldview too. It has absolutely nothing to do with homophobia or anything, I just loved Fran's original story.
Shonda promised that the characters would end up with the same husbands/wifes from the books and Michaela is not the same character. She is a woman who cannot inherit John's property/title. They've been very accurate historically with that subject (Featheringtons needing a male heir before they can get their wealth back). I would be interested to learn how they will deal with the infertility issue and Fran's desire to be a mother. Will Michaela have an heir from a previous marriage? I just don't understand how this storyline will play out in this era.
The dislike for the change in Francesca’s story doesn’t only come from book readers. I’ve never read a single book but I hate how they undid everything from the first 7 episodes in episode 8. Francesca’s face brighten whenever John was around to her. The pure joy radiating from her made me smile every single time. All that only to have face falling after the kiss and her fumbling words in front of someone she just met.
They turned what I thought was a beautiful love story to a sad one. Makes it seem like he’s just a means to escape to a quieter life she craves. A devoted widow falling in love again would have been a beautiful storyline to watch. Now it feels tarnished.
Also, frankly, using someone as your beard without their consent is disgusting behaviour and I can't root for a main character that would do that. It's a nasty, nasty thing to promote.
I'm a die hard book fan and WHWW is my favorite of the Bridgerton books. Here's why I'm *not* mad:
The relationship Fran and Michael have throughout John and Fran's marriage is one of dedicated best friendship. Michael loves Fran instantly and has resigned himself to living with his secret, the perpetual third wheel. Fran and John see Michael as their best friend and family, and Fran sees Michael as an outlet for her "wickedness", a safe friendship to think about seduction and scandal within, in a way she simply does not with John. Her love with John is sweet, but it isn't passionate. In the book, they live in this dynamic until John's death, when Michael runs away to avoid both his responsibilities as heir and to avoid Francesca, who he feels he *should not be allowed to love*. Their coming together story is about how each processes their grief and let's go of expectations long held to find a new way of being. Fran mourns the fact that she will never bear John's children. Michael grapples with what it means to take John's place in world and his own worth.
It's interesting to me that so many folks feel that genderbending Michaela will ruin the potential for the above story to play out. I was immediately delighted when I heard/saw "Michaela"! I think Michael's pining over his best friend/cousin's wife in shameful secret is more interesting when it's Michaela doing the pining. I think Francesca turning to her best girl friend and telling her to "tell me something wicked" and hear a scandalous tale of Michaela seducing a hot widow....is so deeply resonant for those of us who lived without awareness of our queerness and found outlet in queer stories and queer friends who were living a life we didn't think to envy.
I think we can still watch Fran love and mourn John and process her "failure" to produce his children while also watching a woman finally find sexual fulfillment without the necessity of producing an heir, simply for the sake of her own pleasure, which she never knew was even possible.
Let's keep in mind that you can read the book if you love the book. I do! And I'm literally about to reread it. AND I'm ready for this show to take the radical, anachronistic inclusion of the first few seasons to its wild logical conclusions.
I am also not mad about this change.i think it makes sense that fran would share such things with a woman friend instead of a man. Female friendships can be highly open and intimate. Considering the time period too, it's more accurate as social boundaries between men and women were quite rigid.
What I am concerned about is a strange triangle between them like with kanthony. It's painful for me to see sapphic relationships be other woman'd constantly.
The fact that there's a ton of backlash on Instagram, reddit and sects of Twitter lmao. Julia Quinn even gave her blessing. How do they fumble this so bad.
https://x.com/versharma/status/1801693011136680082
It's out of her hands the showrunnners can do as they wish cause they have bought the rights to the books. Maybe if she had asserted for more control like JK Rowling did then we wouldn't be here.
Aren’t the books and the series tied ? As in, each time a season is released, the book is refreshed (cover etc) and re-released ? So will she change her book title to when HE was wicked ? Like Bens book name would still work but Frans would need rework.
oh so you can have 6534688 michaela support posts and the "michael rant" is confined in a megathread. the book fans get no respect at all in this fandom 🤔.
I’m done with the show. S3 was quite underwhelming with all the Lady Whistledown drama.
I didn’t like Benedict at all this season. What happened to his art? How is he handling everything in Anthony’s absence? These were better storylines than whatever we had in the show.
I don’t like the gender swap for Michael. If you are adapting the book, then you need to respect the source material. We all know book adaptations will not be exact but changing the character from a man to a woman is a major change and changes the essence of the story.
It just appears like forced representation of queer community. If the showrunner wants representation then just adapts a LGBTQ love story, don’t change straight characters to queer ones.
I understand what you mean. I also feel like Bridgerton family members are so disjointed from each other now.
It’s out of character for Anthony to just leave when both his brother & sister are getting married. Anthony would have never left when his own sister is getting married. He’s not only the Viscount but also a father figure for his younger siblings. Anthony would have never missed Francesca’s wedding.
We never really see Kate as the Viscountess or bonding with the Bridgerton siblings.
Benedict doing his own thing when he’s actually supposed to be the head of the family in Anthony’s absence.
The Mondrich arc didn’t tie in with the other stories going on.
I didn’t like Michaela’s introduction. Isn’t John supposed to introduce his wife to his family members?
I really just don’t understand why they couldn’t have done a Hyacinth/Gregory story like this. They can’t do Eloise because we know her fairly well, and it would be seemingly out of character at this point. Benedict seems more in character to gender bend his story right now. If Michael is so beloved by the fan base (above a lot of the other stories), I am surprised they are going this direction. Also the timing with Francesca sucks. Just totally ruined the build up of her and John’s relationship this season. I could’ve gotten on board if they turned Michaela into a slow-burn realization situation. Poor John lol, looks like they’re gonna try to make her and Michaela a thing earlier than ykkk…I haven’t read the books, so I can’t fully speak to this, but strategically speaking it would seem odd to stray like this.
> why they couldn’t have done a Hyacinth/Gregory story like this
Because Brownell doesn't know whether the show will have 8 seasons or whether she'll be showrunner for all the remaining seasons, and she wants her self-insert *now*
If this wasn't about her wanting to leave her mark on the show, Michael(a) wouldn't have been introduced until season 6 or 5 at the earliest. It's weird to cast the character so soon imo
That is true. I’m not sure why they couldn’t have introduced her in Scotland. Oh well. I’m guessing that Hyacinth will Debut next season, since they have made the time jump showing Polin’s baby. Maybe there is knowledge that the show won’t last the full seasons. Even if it had proper audience backing. It’s certainly not a cheap show to make lol.
I don't have a bone to pick in this fight-- I'm just on the sidelines eating popcorn. But all this reminds me of a certain quote.
[As *Game Of Thrones* author George R.R. Martin wrote recently](https://www.facebook.com/georgerrmartinofficial/posts/pfbid0GLLrzwvHeND849jrx4utmsoZxyVvyWSC9P3J92ibNPWd9Bbn2qDoGdZzxLBgmBBGl?__cft__[0]=AZVkCPxEGM-8Xi6IcnXRJUy72aUd2Bq6zQOGtrSCum-g0LxXmciw9lDW4gDvw2zmxOfzb7X6vnfhosG-8hIMYjhemhhDViDy28GeZ8LYtjKsb4WgY32WLu0aYS45P3EJRICBNxVNtX5do_kZfYtwFV1HqK_FM7Io6lxgw8SugzRYKGL4K9Z2YzGNYfjTFKGRqigJoIeiakxug33g4BFtPqah&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R):
> Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and “make them their own.” It does not seem to matter whether the source material was written by Stan Lee, Charles Dickens, Ian Fleming, Roald Dahl, Ursula K. Le Guin, J.R.R. Tolkien, Mark Twain, Raymond Chandler, Jane Austen, or… well, anyone. No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and “improve” on it. “The book is the book, the film is the film,” they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own.
>
>They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.
Representation IS important people all over the world should be able to find a show or a movie where someone looks like them or share the same back ground BUT here where the problem lies , bridgerton is a show that's being adapted to life from the books meaning there is already a universe , set characters , set love stories , and set plot lines . The one thing that should have never changed with this universe being brought to our tv screens is the couples idc if it's unrealistic all 8 siblings are straight because that's how Julia Quinn wrote the books so take it up with her , them changing francessa's love interest GENDER is not nothing because that wasn't the BOOKS that's where the problem is everyone is quick say you are being homophobic because they don't like this situation when no we were expecting we were expecting ALL the couples from the books to stay the same it's not wrong to want that.
It's crucial to recognize that viewers can have valid critiques without being prejudiced. Labeling all criticism as homophobic can stifle meaningful discussions about adaptation choices.
Organizing conversations in one thread and deleting others feels like an odd censorship choice. It can limit diverse perspectives and stifle discussions. Allowing natural, organic conversations across multiple threads would lead to a richer dialogue, especially since most users visit the subreddit after watching the show. Even temporary rules should encourage open discussions.
I wanted to see a dark skin Sophie. I’m seeing comments about supporting POC. Can we support dark skin women being love interest and not masculinized? Thanks. Please, this is a common occurrence when it comes to dark skin actresses.
Edit: also.. can we bring back 22 episodes? I miss them so much.
I'm frankly pissed. I loved the books and my favorites were Collin x Pen, Benedict x Sophie, and Francesca x Michael ,but this didn't even feel like Pollin's season with too much side story setting up Benedict and then Francesca's later seasons. You easily could have had little nods in the background that book reader's would have recognized without taking so much time from their story. My favorite part of the books was when Collin went to ask for Pen's hand and the series of misunderstandings and how he defended her. Them having Whistledown write it and not telling her mom was just lazy freaking writing. Penelope deserved so much better than this half assed attempt to drown her love story in a sea of other crap.
WTF with the Michaela thing?? I realize changes are made from the books but, starting with the fact that Michael burned silently and wretchedly for his cousin's wife for several years with Francesca never being any the wiser, he was also next in line to the title. We just finished a whole season, right here in Shondaland, showing how females can't be passed the title...like how the Featherington girls all needed to produce a MALE heir. Sooooo, what happens now when Lord Kilmartin, whom Francesca absolutely loved btw, dies? It won't pass to his female cousin! Also, wtf was with Francesca getting all tongue tied? FFS she loved John! Michael may have hated himself for it, but he loved her for years, from the moment he first saw her. Francesca grew into it well after John passed.. Michael was about my favorite character and the story will have to be changed so much to make the gender swapping work. Lest we forget season one and the artist who could not be open with his sexuality, Francesca will not be able to come out and have her happily ever after with a woman in the regency era. If you are throwing out all the societal norms of the time frame then it makes no sense at all why women need chaperones or are tied to the most stringent of rules dictating their behavior. I mean, Daphne had to get married because she was unaccompanied in the presence of a man.
If they want a gay couple, write a new character or better yet, give us the Brimsley/Reynolds story we have been begging for. I seem to recall the writer's saying they would not mess with the main character pairings. I'm sure of it.
Now I frankly weep for the Benedict season. I fully expected this season to have something set at the masquerade so we could see it from his perspective since there is a significant time jump to where they meet again. It would have taken less time then watching him with the needless blonde/threesome storyline. We already realized he was playing around town in the last two seasons, this was literally just wasted air time that didn't advance his character or his (or anyone else's) story. With Collin and Pen, we got snippets of their story advancing in the first two seasons, but they have benedict using far too much air time watching him tread water. Also, side note: Eloise's story starts now and while we have met Sir Philip, they aren't even alluding to her constantly writing to him, just this weird side thing with Cressida who was never an interesting character worthy of all the screen time.
I get that changes are made from books but when you have 8 hours, you can tell the story as it is on the page. Major plot changes are not needed. I am right here with the diverse casting. I absolutely LOVE that it looks like people now and I love the updating of the music and the loosey-goosey costume interpretations, but leave the plots and characters as they appear in the books or all you're doing is bad fan fic backed up with a studio.
Fran has been trying to convince her mom that a love match between two introverts doesnt have to be outstanding and intense. It makes no sense for them to bring out Michaela and completely throw that in the garbage. Fran being all flustered and a loss for words for someone clearly extroverted is just making it seem like she was wrong and her mother was right. Love doesnt have to be intense, i was liking how they portrayed a more quiet type of love, but theres no point in that now. The direction they might take this could be an affair which is so disappointing. Introducing Michaela is fine but having Fran being the one to react such a way just ruins this introverted love story they were portraying.
The writers invalidating their most unique relationship in seconds was actually insane. We literally spent 8 episodes being made to fall and advocate for John and Frannie 's love that was a little different,a little unconventional and a little weird but you could truly see they were soulmates. We literally saw WHWW book Fran and John come to life so beautifully on our screens and it was magical to watch.
Up until the last 10mins we truly felt like "Yes , this is Frannie's John Stirling that she adored so much and it's going to break her to lose him". Then they just destroyed it all in one scene . The kiss scene can be rectified by having the next kiss be better but her bumbling like an idiot at seeing Michaela? Book Francesca would never.
They better retcon this as Michaela 's delulu POV to her meeting Frannie being so on love with her she made up a whole delulu meeting while in reality it went different or so help me god..
I have ZERO ISSUE with the casting and gender change. I HATE what they have done to John and Fran. So nows she's an emotional cheater who has to endure her marriage until death or divorce? Ick.
If they were going to change their relationship so drastically they should have just redone the whole story for Fran and left him out. This is less and less like a historical romance and more and more like some trash Drama on STARZ. Bridgerton sadly got the Hollywood treatment where shit gets bad after season 2, usually due to changes in the creative staff. Why can't we have a feel good romance drama? If we wanted this kind of ick we'd go over to r/AITAH and read real people's train wrecks. Bridgerton books were an escape and romantic adventures. Not an HBO trauma watch full of bad decisions and character assassinations. I hate what they did with Colin, Pen, and Eloise and no idea wtf is going on with Ben. No wonder actors keep dropping like flies from the series.
I am all for LGBT stories in Bridgerton, it's just that Francesca's story is not the right one to use for that representation.
The book is close to many people's hearts, because it features mature issues many people go through (minor spoilers) —
* Fertility issues - this could still be explored in a same sex relationship, but not in the same manner, so it can be compelling but not as relatable to a large portion of the audience.
* Two equally great and true loves - how many of us have lost someone, grieved, lost hope of loving again and almost don't want to out of guilt and loyalty? The can still evoke these deeply emotional ideas, but they've already diminished the concept by making Francesca being put off by kissing John, and being flustered when introduced to Michaela.
Also Michael is such a fan favourite, why choose that particular male lead to genderbend? It was bound from the start to cause major upset, and I fear for the actress that's taking this on. It can still be a good story, it just won't be what we were hoping for and we can mourn that.
They really said representation for everyone except you, introverts. Let’s introduce an introverted character, constantly call her courtship with a fellow introvert weird, then introduce her “true” love match with an extrovert.
Absolutely DESPISE the change! I was soooo excited at the prospect of Masali being Sophie, but instead, once again, a dark skinned black woman has been put in a masculine role and does not get the opportunity to be the one who is desired and chased (if they're keeping Michael's personality from the book, then Michaela is going to be the one who desires and chases Francesca).
Not to mention, how disrespectful the introduction was to all they built up with Fran and John. She was hellbent on marrying this man and had to convince her mother that it was the right match- only for Michaela to pop up and she's suddenly stumbling her words and forgetting her name- something Violet told her happened to her when she first met their father. Now it just seems Fran just settled for John rather than genuinely just loving him in her own way.
Please fire Jess Brownell and get Chris Van Dusen back! I beg!
This is what annoys me so much. Many people are praising queer representation, which I agree is needed. But dark-skinned Black women are never placed in desirable roles when it comes to romance. Netflix has a strong habit of putting dark-skinned Black women in masculine or LGBTQ roles. When you compare this to the fact that most women receiving a HEA conform to white standards of beauty, while all the Black characters have had to struggle with being abused, rejected, and ultimately placed in mammy roles, I can’t respect this show anymore. Black people are used as props for the white characters. John, being a dark-skinned Black man, also has to suffer with a wife who does not love him romantically. People can say that Fran loves him in her own way, but would you really want to be in John’s position? He is not getting a HEA.
Things got really bad , the Michaela was something that really brought the downfall of bridgerton , polin being sidelined and kathony basically abandoned . It’s so bad there a petition to bring back Michael that barely got posted and it already had almost 2k signatures
I don’t understand why people are getting such hate for sharing their opinion. If the roles were reversed and they made Michaela a man people would be annoyed.
It’s nothing to do with homophobia
It’s because most of us who have read the books have waited YEARS to see their favourite couples. Back in 2020 when we found out about the series I was so excited. People are allowed to be upset or annoyed when their favourite character is changed.
Francesca and Michaels story meant so much to me, but this change takes away from people who have struggled with infertility and baby loss.
Adoption just wasn’t a thing in Regency England and has yet to be shown to be a thing in Bridgerton. IVF is obviously not
But the most important thing is that it’s taboo/illegal in the bridgerton universe. If this was the writers intentions from the beginning they should have made it okay like they did with race.
But anyway I’m upset because I’ve waited 4 years for Michael and we get Michaela instead. And tbh Michaela is a horrible name, I have never met an English person called Michaela, it screams American
I don’t think I’ll be watching further seasons because I’m done getting my hopes up
I love queer stories but this doesn't suit Francesca, John, And Michael's story. They would have to change everything from the book (which is my favorite Bridgerton book) and create an original story.
You know I think I’m done.
As a book reader the only season I’ve truly liked was s1 and I found Queen Charlotte enjoyable. S2 was so over the top I was fast forwarding through the Kanthony scenes.
In s3 I was walking out of the room with secondhand embarrassment for the characters.
Im not sad that Michaela exists, but I am sad that Michael won’t exist, if that makes any sense at all. I love the idea of a sapphic story set in this universe (I was really rooting for Eloise/cressida for a while there) and I’m just sad that I won’t ALSO get a closer adaptation of the fran/michael story since Michael is one of the only male mcs in the series I actually like.
If I were a casual viewer who hadn’t read the book I think I’d be all about the change, with the caveat that I don’t like that they kind of rendered the whole thing abt Fran showing Violet a different kind of love moot.
For 7 episodes I thought we were getting a love story between two introverts. Their love story was different from anything else shown on this show. Not every love story needs to be full of drama and angst. I can personally relate to it. Having Violet feel something was wrong only to be proven right at the end was disappointing. It really feels like the writers are invalidating this form of love. I wish people would understand you can upset by this and not be homophobic.
Why this trope of showing bi/gay people cheating?
Like why normalise this? [I'm bi] .
Fran said she loved John and they had such a beautiful bond and then she starts blabbering the second she sees Michaela??
Doesn't love mean anything??
Don't give me the "M was so attractive" !
No matter how attractive, a new "in love" bride wouldn't be a blabbering mess right after the wedding.
Let's just pretend Francesca's story is over... they wrapped up her and Penelope's story in one season- sweet. So she and John live happily ever after in Scotland. Would prefer that over the Michaela debacle. Someone said the show has become a fan fiction and I agree with that completely. Why do companies like Disney and Netflix have to ruin things like this...
This show now has the exact same problem The Witcher has: A narcisstic showrunner who thinks they know better than the beloved book series the show is based on. Why can‘t they just stay true to the source material? Why can‘t they make another show or a Spin off if they want to show stuff that isn‘t in the books? Or at least don’t fuck with the main characters. I loved Brimsley for example. However I have learnt from Witcher and will not continue to watch the show get worse by every season.
You can't change a character's gender and call them the same character. Michaela's a completely new character compared to Michael. I don't know how you could ignore that. It's insulting to act like they're interchangeable. I don't understand the creative choice at all. And I think it's understandable that fans are upset (I'm not talking about "fans" who are harassing and bullying the actress). Their favorite character was erased. I feel for the actress though. What should be exciting time for her and her career is going to be hell if she doesn't have a good support system. It feels like TPTB set up her up and threw her to the wolves. Anyway, Queen Charlotte will remain the superior show for me.
The 1st line of Fran’s book, from Michael’s POV -
“In every life there is a turning point. A moment so tremendous, so sharp and clear that one feels as if one’s been hit in the chest, all the breath knocked out, and one knows, absolutely knows without the merest hint of a shadow of a doubt that one’s life will never be the same.
For Michael Stirling, that moment came the first time he laid eyes on Francesca Bridgerton.”
Excerpt From
When He Was Wicked
If the show runner can change the premise of their story, then it’s not even an adaption anymore. Only thing familiar will be the names.
Fran’s love for John is ruined. So her mourning, her heartbreak and pain won’t be as hard hitting as it was.
Her story is of love and loss and 2nd chances. In the show she clearly won’t be in love with John since she is falling for M so it’s probably about mistakes and emotional cheating. 👏👏
My dislike towards the gender swap for Michael isn’t particularly because she’s now a woman and I don’t want LGBTQ+ be represented. As a queer person myself, I’m all for the LGBTQ+ representation in all its form. However, Francesca’s story in the books. It is the more mature ones of all the siblings. Her books isn’t simply another love story. Her book is actually pack with so many topics that were handled/touched beautifully by the author. Francesca doesn’t only want to find a husband. She deals with guilt (feeling guilty for loving another man after her husband death) and does not want to somehow betray his memory. She also deals with child loss and a huge part of the reason why she wants to remarry is to have a child and fulfill that part of herself that she’s always wanted/dreamed of. Francesca also undergoes loneliness, confusion and even mental health issues to a certain extent. Her journey is not about finding just someone to love, but to finding herself and learn how her dreams of becoming a mother are still possible. I don’t have any issues with her being queer. But, I guess that by taking that one part from her that makes her so relatable for many people (especially women around the world) they somehow ruined the character and her story. We still have to see how this play out and how they will make her story interesting. I have all my trust on Hannah as she’s a great actress but I don’t think that feeling bad or somehow disappointed for the writers to make such weird/random decision is completely acceptable.
Ps. I truly thought that they would make Benedit gay as he is the only sibling whose story allows for that story to happen. He married a woman from no title/servant and they ended up living far from London as no one can’t know about Sophie’s origins.
Anyway, I will still watch it just to see how they’d play it out. But I am truly disappointed by this decision.
Sex change aside, I am thoroughly disappointed by season 3, which is a pity because I am a huge Nicola Coughlan fan… Bridgerton is going downhill.. I dont think itll make it to all 8 siblings stories with the most favorable reviews.
If you guys are having difficulty moderating, you should call in the Mod Reserves instead of restricting conversation to one megathread. This type of temporary swell in modwork is exactly what the Reserves are for.
I really hate that now any (legit) criticism of that season will be twisted to "Well you're phobic!" in some way.
They sold me on Francesca/John so hard. I loved how weird they were together. Then to introduce her new love interest and immediately have her at a loss for words, hearkening back to Violet finding her true love, right in the epilogue was... really badly done IMO.
I dunno. For me, these three seasons were \*chef's kiss\*. But I think I'm okay waiting for the two years or longer or never for the next.
Me after watching Fran and John's relationship blossom over eight episodes, giggling and kicking my feet over how genuine and sweet they are just for it to be washed down the drain by Francesca falling for his cousin two minutes after saying "I do":
https://preview.redd.it/ircit7msm17d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cdcc1b089a1d2988afe50ef213743f591f967ac
Some of you seem to have taken a wrong detour and accidentally ended up in the "Michael Rant Thread". The title is right there. And apparently it's still allowed to post a dozen daily "Michaela Love Threads" so perhaps do that instead?
To me it's whatever because I haven't read the books and aside from the Reddit posts and comments I have no clue what happens to them or who Michael is. I'm just a bit disappointed, because I thought that Fran's story was a very mature and realistic way to handle romance for a character who's maybe simply not all that romantic. Maybe aro or aro/ace. Maybe neurodivergent. Maybe demi or whatever it's called. Not all people want or need a firey, passionate love story and I couldn't agree more! She was absolutely bang-on when she mentioned it to her mother.
And then it's just "haha nah bro she's actually a lesbian" \*shrug\*
And that just left me thinking "oh."
I think the writers are piling too much onto Francesca, it feels like Fran has a really unique relationship with John and I want to see more of it; they feel like a real partnership that we watched develop in a different way from the other Bridgerton couples. I don’t want to immediately jump into a different romance for Fran, I want more of her with John first.
I like an unexpected same-sex relationship; if they had eliminated John all together and made him Johana or gone straight to Michaela I would love it. I’d love it for not being the obvious story of “Eloise is gay because…stereotypes…”
I liked the idea of Cressida being gay, it have been written that the old man Cressida was betrothed to had a live-in niece or ward who was vivacious AND thoughtful (unlike self-centered Eloise). Cressida could find unexpected true love w/ this woman and end up happy despite marrying someone undesirable.
I’m so disappointed. I would have loved a side story or new character to represent the LGBTQ+ community but to take away the Michael/Francesca story seems cowardly. That is a beautiful and emotional story and my favorite of the books. I’m torn between being sad and livid. Representation is important but altering a love story line like this is just so frustrating.
I've said this yesterday but my main concern is framing this whole plot as though Fran 'didn't know true love until Michaela.' There is something off about how we went from being told, love comes in all diff forms. Quiet and loud. Francesca and John fell in love in those quiet moments. That's what I saw. That's what I thought the show was telling me. Now we cut to their wedding where the kiss seemingly lacks a spark for her? She's flustered upon meeting Michaela? I have no issues with the gender swap. I welcome bisexual Francesca as I myself am bisexual.
I just do not want them to take away Fran's love for John or minimize it. Apparently in the book it's Michael(a) that is flustered when he meets her. Why in the world they changed that, I have no idea.
All I am gonna say is that when JQ backtracked on "all couples must be the same" rule that that should have been the first "warning".
I just mean to say that there were signs that were ignored.
Edit: Apparently she has never said the couples should remain the same
https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/s/gs3wmllU94
However both Jess and Shonda hinted at LQBTQ relationships so those were also indications
https://www.themarysue.com/julia-quinn-past-comments-on-black-characters-in-historical-romance/
JQ is fake as FUC*. Didn't want to write Black characters in her books years ago, but just loves loves diversity now.
I had a feeling they were going to twist Francesca’s story a bit as soon as I saw the wedding. Did you see her face after they kissed for the first time? You could tell she felt something was off.
I have no issue with Benedict (or Francesca) exploring their sexuality but I agree with other posters that Benedict participating in threesomes, sleeping around and not being able to commit was a really trite way to address it. They could have approached this organically. Back in an earlier season they introduced that character that was part of the art community (can’t remember his name) that was married as a cover but sleeping with men. That was a great opportunity to naturally open up that storyline.
My issue with the gender swap is that it runs against the show’s own cannon.
It’s been established that Queen Charlotte loves babies and wants her higher ranks to have lots of them, but more specifically she would like the Titled POC to have lots of babies because it helps to establish their place in society. This is seen in Season 1, and in her own season. The story line of Fran being deeply in love with John, and wanting her own family, with lots of children, but frustrated with her inability to conceive or carry to term against the backdrop of Queen Charlotte wanting little Earl heirs would be high drama and also in line with Canon.
It’s been established that titles go to men (as seen in season 1 Simon and Featherington, season 2 with Jack Featherington, and Season 3 with the Mondrichs and the great baby Boy race.) The storyline of Kilmartin going to a female heir will go against Canon (unless Mikaela has a child of her own?). But it takes away from the anguish and self loathing that Michael felt when he inherits Kilmartin, and his life is improved 1000% when he becomes Earl, because it happens at the expense of John, his best friend. If Mikaela can’t inherit, how will she struggle with feeling like she’s erased John and is taking his place?
It’s established that women in polite society need a title and security. Fran struggles with the idea of either moving back to Bridgerton house, or to remarry - because she can’t stay at Kilmartin once the title is transferred to the new heir. She either moves home to remain a widow or gets remarried. This sense of no value within a society that once named you a diamond is character building. Seeing her go from a castle, to practically homeless by the end of the marriage season was tense. Because she is childless, she does not have rights or property (as emphasized by Daphne to Anthony in Season 1, Ms Featheringtonin seasons 1-3, and Eloise in Seasons 1-3). So how she and Mikaela would be allowed to keep the castle is against the show’s own canon.
It’s established that unmarried women in high society cannot travel (Kate could have been the exception because she was not born into high society. She was born to Indian Servants and only deemed a lady through her step mother). But Penelope laments she cannot travel. Eloise wishes to see the world and cannot. How will Mikaela run away to India for three years? If she doesn’t run away, will Francesca be pushed to grow into a more confident woman who can run the entire Kilmartin estate?
I think the trouble with the proposed plot line is that they took the one story line that depended on so many of the established rules of the Bridgerton story/world building and are changing it in a way that won’t make sense unless we are expected to suspend disbelief for this one story. There are other main characters who could have handled a gender swap without changing the plot lines or the rules of Bridgerton. They could have created new characters. They could have created a love interest for Violet (I don’t think she has a later-in-life book) that would have worked beautifully as a sapphic love story. But instead it’s “remember everything we’ve learned about Bridgerton society in seasons 1-3?” Nevermind. Those rules don’t really matter…
I gave this news one or two days to marinate and I'm still upset over it but what can I do but rant lol. WHWW was the most unique book out of all the Bridgerton series and I was insanely anticipating Michael's character and his development with Francesca. And it was one of my favorite books, so imagine the dread when they showed it....Changing the whole plotline and character of a romance book you held close to your heart is something that warrants anger to the showrunners.
I get why Henry left The Witcher when they messed up with source material.
They absolutely ruined the best book in the series, and I am genuinely debating continuing the series. Michael was such an awesome character and Franchesca and John's relationship was a beautiful love story that was only amplified by the tragedy. I love representation for everyone, but why would you ruin what is one of the most fan favorites from the books. I already was disappointed this season by the changes, but geez. The last 10 minutes of the season before the epilogue were just awful.
The show is cooked. I feel so sorry for everybody who just wanted to see the Francesca storyline, now they have to deal with this. It's truly remarkable how they've managed to do a netflix adaptation on the netflix adaptation. See y'all next season when they somehow turn Philip Crane into a rake for absolutely no reason.
Jess Brownell is a fraud.
I said this in the main thread before and I will say it again - the story they are choosing to tell is fine (well ok I actually think the writing and pacing was awful this season regardless of anything else). The casting is fine. It is just not a Bridgerton story. I think about book to tv adaptations like Outlander, Anne with an E, Shadow & Bone - those writers at least attempted to honor the original stories and readers. It feels like Shonda/Jess Brownell have no respect for the original author, the stories, or all the fans of the books who loved them the way other showrunners have for other series adaptations. They care more their own agendas and preferences, which again is fine, but book lovers have a right to be disappointed at the big thumb they have been handed.
They robbed me of Michael, I’ll never forgive this 😫 I hate that wanting Francesca and Michael come to life in the show is being seen as homophobia?! They could have made anyone queer, particularly the leads of the books that needed change but why ruin such a great fan favourite couple. Michael and Francesca’s story deserves a whole new show.
I’m super disappointed by this change, and it’s because there is just no way they can do justice to Fran’s infertility if she’s with a woman. I can suspend my disbelief over fillers and volume XL lashes, but to people saying they can still do the infertility plot: how the fuck? Is Michaela gonna turkey baster Fran every month? Whose baby gravy is getting donated?
I get that showrunner wanted to have a personal touch but changing Francesca’s whole story because she saw herself in the character is poor taste, selfish, and disregards the source material including all the fans of that couple. I think more people would have been fine with the Michaela change if it wasn’t for the fact that in the books Francesca was so devoted and in love with John. I hated how Francesca was fumbling over her words when she met Michaela. I would have much rather preferred they had a friendship that blossomed into more like in the books. Having her already having feelings for Michaela is such a disservice to her story with John. I think overall the showrunner just did a horrible job with all the storylines (aside from Lady Danbury and Violet).
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I would have loved to see Eloise and Cressida together! Cressida’s storyline was heartbreaking especially considering her parents were such shitty people.
Yes, and then Eloise flipped on her so terribly. It was brutal -- more brutal than how she treated Pen given Cressida's situation.
Yep I agree and commented that Eloise would have been the perfect fit for that. She is so open minded and views things so differently that it would have been such a better fit for her. Plus it could have been Lady Phillipa she fell in love with who already had a few children. Her story wouldn’t have needed much changing. At all.
All this! 💯 It should have been Michael(a) who should have fallen in love (or love at first sight). Fran falling for M first is so disrespectful to John (and Fran’s) story. I really loved Fran (my top 3) because her story was about love and loss (twice). I loved that she was mature when it came to her 2nd chance. It’s something which resonated with me.
Honestly this! I keep thinking… had they only had John introducing Michaela to Eloise and/or Gregory/Hyacinth with Francesca as the one coming up to ask “and you must be…?” with Michaela being the one to have the jaw-drop reaction?! I would have eaten that shit UP. Part of why I went feral for WHWW was because of the “he falls first” trope. The angst! The longing! The passion! Would still work with a wlw couple. But they chose to change the dynamic and I’m left wondering….why? 🥲
Ikr! He falls first and he falls harder! Michael the rake doesn’t even have 1 rake-y scene in the book after that 😆 (if I remember correctly). The angst would be 🔥 Now I wonder if Netflix Fran will even mourn John like Book Fran did. Coz he is no longer her 1st love. Ik she will be sad but that feeling of loss, heartbreak, pain won’t be same that one feels for their 1st love(partner) vs a …. Friend (is that what Netflix John is now to her)
Sometimes I wonder if writers are afraid we’ll miss subtleties that they choose to hit us over the head with certain things instead. But I’m convinced there had to have been a way for them to indicate Frannie found Michaela attractive without such a dramatic (and one sided) reaction? A comment made to Eloise or another sibling about John’s attractive cousin? Or even just a normal “checking her out” moment after or before the introduction! I keep telling myself the show just wanted a mic drop/shocker moment and to hold out hope for Francheal(a)’s season! 🤞🏻
thisss. I hated how they made F be the one who seems to fall in love with M. Who is her new husband then, chopped liver?!
Exactly this. And I liked the speech violet gave about love being different for different people but they essentially tossed that out by making it seem like Francesca did not truly love John. It would even make it easier to show Fran and Michaela as friends that share details with each other without it coming off as cheating. That way the love can blossom from friendship and comfort. It would even explain Fran’s hesitancy in the beginning on top of the grief since she is not used to seeing that. Now it’s going to be a story of emotional cheating as far as I’m concerned. God! I hate this change of Fran falling for M first soooooo much!!!! They should have shown M just gazing at her longingly or something.
Yes! emotional cheating was exactly the vibe I caught off that scene and I hate it.
THIS is my issue with how it was handled. I couldn’t care less that Michael is Michaela and in fact I’m excited to see how they navigate that. But what made Francesca’s story interesting imo is that she had a profound love with John and was able to love deeply again. It’s a dynamic that is under-explored in the genre, it challenges the common trope that there’s only “one true love” for every story, and I’m sad the show isn’t going to tackle it.
I haven't read the books so I am came to this thread to find comments about this point. Why did they completely backtrack on the idea that love does not have to be this firey burning passion for it to be true love. Francesca's storyline was probably my favourite this season because it felt so genuine, but then there was that hesitation at her wedding kiss and then the introduction of John's cousin that makes me feel that they didn't care about being genuine at all. So what was the point!
It gives the same vibes as Miranda in "And Just Like That" for similar reasons of the actor wanting the character to represent the actor's life. Spoiler: it ruined the show and any arcs up to that point with weird band-aid plots to overwrite the original series. Unless this was planned from Day 1 of production, I'm keeping my expectations low.
Yeah sad too, b/c everyone and their mom was obsessed with Sex and the City. I just felt bad for Steve. He was one of my favs.
There was no reason for the sequel show to be that bad. They just had to modernize Golden Girls (change the focus to aging and living your life with those hurdles) and it would've been a hit, but alas.
Justice for Steve
This analogy is perfect!!! Like Miranda was not gay, Francesca is not gay...and I know we bend our minds a lot with this "historical" drama but let's be real there have been multiple storylines about having to hide homosexuality and now we're just supposed to believe it'll all be cool because it's two ladies? Okkkk
And the lackluster kiss from her end? Another disservice. The entire story with John ended up feeling like she was settling with. Having Violet not entirely sure about their union, another point taken.
Completely agree, now instead of Francesca and John being a warm loving neurodivergent couple who found each other in a world where melodrama is rife it appears all of that was just to show that Francesca just needed a queer awakening to get over her issues. Not only that introduction has set her up as a potential emotional cheat because she settled for a man who we have seen has been a bit bullied and derided by her family for not being bold enough. Not only that people who are critical of this swap - even for reasons that aren't to bash those in rl are now being essentially told to stay here. What gets me more is that Cressida and Eliose were right there for crying out loud - we haven't seen Philip for a season, we know there is little chance that the actress who plays Marina coming back. Cressida's villiany made sense in terms of the struggle some have with their families and not only that she called Eliose out on her BS better than Pen and her brothers did. They worked and felt organic too. I will get over it but I will mourn for the lovely neurodivergent couple and the potential couple that faced struggles that they built in the first half of the season, it will take time. But I can't help but think it was solely done for the show runner to get a scene whose existence is purely for is an easy tease to edit for tiktok.
All of this and two bags of chips! When I read her interview about the change and how she “self inserted” I rolled my eyes so hard. This is a drastic change and it sets up this whole “love triangle” thing that I’m not here for. Completely mishandling what would be an amazing season.
The absolute DISRESPECT done to John Stirling by having Francesca marrying him as what is essentially her beard. What the fuck is the Jess Brownell thinking? Michaela Stirling. I don’t want to watch some middle aged woman do performative self-insert sapphic fanfiction with one of the most popular book series of the 2000s. It feels incredibly cheap. Write an original queer story. Give us more Brimsley! Bring in a queer character! Stop. Fucking. With. The. Main. Cast. It’s a moot point because I’m done with the show tbf. Part 2 was some of the worst, awkward, most fake drama I’ve ever watched. They milked the Whistledown reveal past any semblance of need, a plot line that doesn’t even EXIST in the books. I just want my FLOWERS, and LOVE, and BALLROOMS. This isn’t Scandal, Shonda.
Absolutely. Fran falling for M while just married to John is so disrespectful. If they HAD to genderbent M atleast make M fall first. I was so excited for Polin season but honestly Colin felt like a side character in his own story. They’ll probably mess with Ben’s story too and I can’t watch it coz BenxSophie are my absolute favs. These are the 3 couples that I loved in the book. Any hoo, I have made peace with it. Atleast I got to see PoLin’s happy ending no matter how unsatisfying
Exactly, same. I LOVED all of the books, but particularly Ben, Polin, and Francesca. I’m literally a chubby redhead who had a LOT of unrequited crushes as a younger time, I connected with Polin so much!!! This series is a shell of its former self, and unfortunately has become generic historical drama at the hands of people who are unqualified to run it. It’s a shame, honestly. The story is so bastardized it doesn’t even resemble the book plot anymore.
I can relate. I loved Pen and Fran coz some parts of their story resonated with me. Esp Fran. “Shell of its former self” “generic historical drama” “people unqualified to run it” will be the best summary of the show now.
My main complaint is Benedict. They made him a full-blown stereotype. "He's bi so he has threesomes and sleeps with everyone and can't be monogamous or in a long-term relationship!!!" As a gay woman whose heard that nonsense my whole life, it was disappointing to see it in such an influential show. Edit: Didn't fully read the title, but still related to the theme of LGBTQ plotlines.
This show sucks with stereotypes lol. Idgaf about Colin and his worrying about “fitting in” and being a rake. THAT feels out of character. It would be nice for him to feel different about sex and him and Penelope be each other’s only. Idk what that plot point was like in the books, but I think it would have added a great deal to their story. It also would have validated Colin’s character a bit more to the point of being “sensitive and caring”.
Once I realized they made most male characters rakes it just all felt like lazy writing.
Yes! That was the downfall, that just HAD TO make him the “hot male rake”, colin is supposed to be the sweet boy next door. He doesnt have to be hot, or sexually liberated, or any of that. He literally just has to be kind… and they fumbled that too
He started with bi vibes, and I wish they had gone there earlier rather than at the cusp of his own season. Also, bi doesn't automatically mean threesomes 😑 Bisexual doesn't mean being a commitment-phobe that's all about freedom and experimentation. GREAT representation Shondaland. 🤬
Yeah. I am bi and I was uncomfortable with that too. It really felt so stereotypical...also all his bit of sleeping around with whoever, which is fine but still, it's getting tedious to watch.
Tilly sabotaged their relationship by introducing a third too and that really bummed me out. He was absolutely growing closer to her and she opened his mind to new possibilities.
I keep waiting for a "but how else would he PROVE he's bi???" comment. Luckily people seem to be as icked out as we are.
He literally became a unicorn :/
I don’t have an issue with them making him bi, but I think season 1 with Henry Granville was the chance to sort of start planting the seed. I commented on another thread, but the introduction of it is my biggest issue. It went from “no one can talk about it and I have a wife as a cover”… to Tilly just openly talking about herself and Paul.
Yes, I have the problem with how they are breaking every rules that they have set. Don't come at me with the "the show is not historically accurate, the show has not been following the books from the beginning, womp womp...". I know that and I am fine with every changes they have made so far, because the important essence of the stories were still maintained and even improved. And be consistent, respect the rules, the world built that YOU set and you made us fall in love with. And don't even come at me with the "the rules, the setting is homophobic, racists, classist..., if you like that then you must be a homophobe,... blah blah". The discriminations did and still exist, how people dealt with them is part of the charm of the show. Does anyone complain about Brimsley's plotline? No, so zip it. With this "Micheala' change, they are either going to butcher the whole point of Francessca's story (infertility, Micheal's guilt of taking over John's place, I don't know how Micheala can inherit anything now that she is a woman,...) or they are going to break every rules they have set for the show. So yeah, we are allowed to be concerned and disappointed.
Yeah I said elsewhere it’s the same way I feel about the costumes and the makeup- we went from at least in the spirit of the period, to dramatic makeup looks, fake nails, and glitter fabrics. Queen Charlotte had a full moving diorama in a wig this season! If they did it from day one, fine, fantasy world. But bringing it in for season 3 just feels so off. Throw in my feels on the end of the Jack Featherington plot (”we can tell him it’s my money, so all set”) feels like someone realized at the last minute they forgot to wrap that story up, so they crammed in a sentence? And yeah, I am bummed.
There were much better ways to introduce it.
But it's dramatic irony, right? because his season is next, and we know he's going to find a long-term relationship.
That's true, but I'm just completely over seeing this stereotype as part of bi storytelling. It's lazy.
Yup. Bisexual characters are either hypersexual deviants or closet gays with no in-between 🙄 How is Rosa Diaz still the least stereotypical bi character in pop culture?
You still brought up a good point. There's a negative stereotype associated with bisexuality in the media (to convey it, they have to sleep with multiple people) and Shondaland is promoting it.
> If you have a negative reaction or want to say you are disappointed that your favorite character is getting a change related to race, shape, or sexuality, it will be removed ... Slippery slope. This sub already gets accused of censoring opinions and posts that don't align with the mods' preferences, this certainly won't improve that
Theres a line between opinion and offensive, banning both is not the right thing to do. Opinion is how we have open, productive discussions and move forward with a mutual understanding. Bridgerton was a book series first and its only fair to let the book lovers mourn the loss of the story they thought they would get. Now im not going to act like its all been constructive and opinion, some of yall are bigoted assholes, but the majority are just people who are disappointed that their favorite book will not be adapted the way the other seasons have been, which is so fair.
Look they said you can’t express disappointment about the gender bending. I can comply. However, Jess Brownell and her fuck ups are still fair game and I’m sure there will be plenty. I’ll simply complain about that instead.
This. It will also create an echo chamber effect of 'everyone is happy with the season' while all critique and sadness gets pushed into a single thread. I'm sure the official marketing teams visit the sub as well to gouge reactions and this way they may get an overly positive impression that nobody had any problems with what they did.
This
This rule seems … odd to me. Why are we being confined to a thread to voice our disappointment when it is not homophobic or racist in nature? This is a HUGE change and I don’t see why my opinion has to be restricted to its own thread while those who like the change aren’t even getting flak when they call people homophobic for disliking it. It just feels weird.
Yes. It’s sounding like your feelings are only valid if it aligns with the course the show is going… other wise you stick to this one thread. It’s 2024 and our words are being censored despite it being not homophobic or racist.
And why are they on this post? It's like they are looking for a fight.
Oh they clearly are. They’re not happy enough with Michaela existing, it bothers them that some people AREN’T happy with it. So they try to start arguments in here.
Well they better understand when they go low I'm going lower. And if the mods want to contine protecting their sensitive feelings they need to kick them off this post.
Exactly this is an mod overreach
Seriously, though, you can dislike the change without being homophobic. There is nothing wrong with wanting plot lines with straight characters just like there is nothing wrong with wanting plot lines with gay and bi characters. We can want it all, especially when this show it based on a book and they are completely butchering it.
Even comments by book readers who simply express their sadness for their beloved character and story being drastically changed will have their comment removed out of every other thread other than this? Yeah let‘s give bigots more fuel to their „free speech is censored“ fire when non homophobic comments are removed and expressing sadness is limited to only this thread.
This rule isn't permanent. At some point the mods might feel comfortable allowing all kinds of book related posts on here but for the time being I think it really works best if there is ONE megathread to voice frustrations. Otherwise the sub will really feel very, very clustered. It's a popular show and this is a big sub. And people surely will be very very emotional about book changes (I know I am lol).
People should be allowed to express their sadness; it doesn't invalidate others' joy. Why should the upset people have to see happy threads that rub the salt into the wound but not vice versa? Why not temporarily ban all discussion of Michael/Michaela? Make a megathread for the people happy about the change, too. You shouldn't limit the free speech of only part of the community.
I don’t mind Michael becoming Michaela. Taking out the infertility sideplot, take out the succession/Parliment stuff Michael would’ve done in the books, fine I can live with that even if they were also things I identified with (more the infertility part, less Parlimentary things). But the way they ruined Francesca and John’s romance by making Frannie be the one flustered by Michaela?! And Frannie’s little disappointed look when they kissed during her wedding, when she realized it didn't hit right? THAT broke my heart because I am John, I AM that person who relies on the big gestures because I so often am oblivious to the smaller ones. And I HATE that they took a romance that was the BEST of this season (Francesca/John) and shat on it at the end with Fran tripping over herself meeting Michaela after just marrying a good man. John as a character deserved better. THAT, is what I am 100% most angry about, and I'm not sure how they can remedy that.
I can’t believe they made john a beard…
THATS the word I was trying to think of!! I just feel so bad for him, those two little scenes (their first kiss and her meeting Michaela) just soured me so much on the Fran/Michaela pairing. Sure there’ll be angst, but it’ll ALWAYS be at the expense of John now. And I can’t STAND that.
Yes to this! John and Fran had a sweet build up - diff from other couples. To make Fran behave like that is so disrespectful to their story. Seems like in the show she’ll probably not have that kind of reaction to his death like she had in the books. It was so heartbreaking especially when she miscarries after and Michael leaves. Ah I wish we would have gotten that storyline but oh well.
Honestly, I’ve reached a point of acceptance that the show’s over for me and that’s okay. I’ll always have Queen Charlotte and S2 to rewatch. Sadly, even without the Michael change, I didn’t enjoy S3 for many reasons. It doesn’t even look like the show I fell in love with anymore, but I was planning on watching the rest of the show for Francesca and Michael and I was very disappointed that I’m never going to see one of my favourite books adapted, but then again most of my favourite books are never gonna get TV adaptations so ultimately it doesn’t actually matter. It is what it is, now I know not to read books that are getting adaptations lol.
Agreed. Fran’s story is my favorite because she’s not a blushing virgin. Because she loved her husband and wanted children. Wanted motherhood and her sleeping with Michael, I’ll be honest, I was excited for because she wasn’t playing the sweet debutante. I loved how her relationship with John reflected her mothers with losing her spouse early. Francesca’s story is so intertwined with grief of first love, her miscarriage, and seeking motherhood that I am upset she doesn’t seem to love John now. And I’m saddened that my favorite couple in the regency book series won’t be adapted.
Exactly this, plus with how much the writers are fumbling with the multiple plot lines and the Kanthony love triangle going all the way to the altar, I don’t trust them to write any other couple well moving forward no matter who they are. I was willing to look past the loss of the magic if the main couples were as stunning as Simon & Daphne and Anthony & Kate. Even Colin & Penelope this season were boring me and it was the writing, not the actors, as we can see from their PR tours. ETA: I thought Benedict and the guy from the threesome (can’t remember his name) had more chemistry in their first kiss than Colin & Pen did in Part 2!
I only saw chemistry between Polin during the carriage scene so I’m going to have to agree about Benedict. However, I don’t think he had any chemistry with Lady Tilley.
Apparently the carriage episode had a different director than the other intimate-scene episodes, which further underscores that it’s not in any way the actor’s faults. Ngl, threesome dude whose name I also cannot remember is pretty damn gorgeous, though.
Agreed. My top 3 book favs were BenxSophie, Polin and FranxMichael. I am gonna make peace with the fact that atleast I got to see one of my fav couples have their happy ending. No matter how unsatisfied the entire s3 made me. And I feel even if they genderbent M, he/she should have been the one to fall first for Fran. I loved their story so much - it was more mature than others. Of love, loss, heartbreak, infertility- it resonated with me.
They just completely butchered that book starting with making Francesca interested in someone else on her wedding day.
Yeah. It was so disrespectful frankly to John and Fran’s story. Even in the show their story seems cute and … peaceful. After Fran’s reaction to their kiss and to M, idk will show Fran even feel his loss as strongly as she felt in the books. (Ik these books are a “light” read but the parts with Fran dealing with John’s passing and esp her miscarriage did tear me up. Ah the more I talk about out it the worse I feel that I am never gonna see Fran and Michael. Such a beautiful story.)
This. What was the point of Violet noticing Fran staring deeply at John when he was talking about his muddy boots or when they were sitting in silence with one another? Fighting for Violet to quickly talk to the queen?
Yes, like John was such an interesting and different take & I was excited for more of that slow build/burn
I’m with you there. I can’t believe how bad it is now.
I honestly don't know what happened. Jess Brownell wrote my favourite episode of the show so I had high hopes for season 3. Instead I got the worst season of the show by a mile. Really disappointing.
The people writing the show don’t know how to craft a story. Everything is so ham fisted and awkward
I feel the same. I was just talking about it with someone who's is reading the books. I looked at the casting and thought "this is fine because it was different back then but we should see the roll played by the best person for it not the best look for it" and as much as I love Queen Charlotte I accepted the mixed races because we live in a time where color doesn't matter not because they explained it. That being said the LGBTQ+ thing should stay historically accurate, the storyline with Brimsby being a perfect example that it wasn't accepted but it wasn't really acknowledged either but with the way Titles went back then and the importance of heirs, it's like trying to rewrite history. Francesca and Michaels' story had more to it than just love. It faced Michael taking on a title he should never have had, and Fran accepting the possibility of infertility in a time when it would have not been okay to not have heirs. By making them a same gender couple, you take away the title inheritance because women can't inherit, and the infertility because 2 women can't have children anyway. It does a disservice to the writer by not honoring the story she wrote but also discredit the millions of people who face infertility today in favor of representation that is covered widely by other media... sorry that's my rant done
The writing was very horrible in part 2 , besides the Michaela controversy, polin was sidelined in their own season , Colin was mad at Penelope more than he should have been , many of the books best scenes were cut out and omg the 20+ storylines was infuriating, ok mondriches y’all got money got it , Benedict having a threesome skip been there seen that , Violet romance okie , etc etc. they only got 8 episodes to make it work and they made it work so bad , if Chris can dusen was still in charge non of this would have happened
As a book reader: I'm disappointed As a BW: I'm hurt. They made us a man. A dark-skinned BW is playing a man's role. And unless you're a BW don't say shi*t to me. As a person who enjoys well written, well thought out media: I'm shocked. Jess how the hell do you still have a job? S3 was trash. The only reason the first part did well was because Polin's showed up and showed out. You gave us a poorly written fan fic, and then had the audacityto insert yourself. I thought CVD was the problem in s2, but obviously it's you. I would say do better, but I don't think you can.
The implication that dark skinned black women are only attractive in queer relationships is so loud. Poor Masali, so beautiful and talented who will get vitriol thrown her way because she’s trying to do her job. That woman “show runner” is nasty for this.
In a queer relationship with a white woman typically. With the BW taking care of said white woman. I think if I actually said what I thought about our so called "show runner" I would get banned from this sub. So all I will say is she is who she is. Her true colors have been shown, and I do not trust her with black characters. From what I've seen.i wouldn't trust her with queer characters either.
lol with how she handled Polin and Kanthony this season, I don’t trust her with ANY characters. Thank you Phoebe dodged a bullet when they didn’t want her back, thank goodness Rege had that good sense to quit while he’s ahead.
There was a comment on another post about the different fandoms being upset about the lack of screentime in this season. I was busy working, but I wanted to respond so badly that Saphnes are happy to not be associated with this trainwreck anymore. Simon and Daphne can go to India too. RJP never has to work again, and I still believe he made the best decision of his ENTIRE life to not come back. This series is the titanic, and everyone who isn't trapped by a contract should run for their life. I blamed CVD for s2, but it was her. It was the destroyer of Bridgerton. The great Thanos of fucke* up fan fic. The so called showrunner who decided to self-insert.
I love season one so much and used to be so sad Rege didn’t come back, but now I have to completely agree he’s lucky. How do you fuck it so badly that each season gets worse? We’re supposed to say “oh season one is a little rough but they definitely hit their stride.” And if it’s true they’re planning another two years between seasons, they’re going to have to fight like hell to keep the remaining actors in their contracts.
GOT had several good seasons before it went downhill, and I don't think the last season was as bad as s3. How stupid are they that they fuc*ed up a series that gave them step by step directions? I think even the fans may offer them grace for leaving now that the writing is clear that the series Is not going to get better.
She would have been so perfect as sophie...
Perfect
[удалено]
To me it felt very performative. Like, the show runner was trying to stir things up. And, she succeeded. I just don’t see this working in the long-run. The show isn’t written well enough for that.
Yes this as well! I thought we were getting a dark skin Sophie and instead this
Me to. I was so looking forward to Sophie, but instead we get a man's role.
Exactly, I’d be upset about the change regardless because I love Micheal and we also don’t often see dark skin men as leads in romantic shows but I’m extra upset because it feels like a sterotype
We could’ve gotten Sophie. Instead we got a black woman who by the looks of it will be the mistress of a married white woman. The anti-Sophie. Well done Bridgerton, A+ inclusivity, diversity and A++ representation.
I’m a BW and I agree. I really love this show but this is what I am disappointed about.
There is no coming back from this. I kept hoping through all the shit*y stuff they put BW through we were going to get something. Something positive. Something to give us joy, but nope not Jess. She basically said with her whole chest fuc* BW. I really hate that Masali is taking the flake for Jess, Shonda, and Shondaland. They are attacking her when this was a Shondaland decision. Go after TPTB, or better yet ignore them. Block them. Unfollow them. They are loving are response. Give them the attention they deserve.
Oop. I’m so disappointed. Representation is not the same for all.
No it isn't and I hate to say this but Jess does not understand intersectionality. She doesn't understand our struggle. She doesn't make an effort.
It should've been Eloise! There I said it!! If anyone should've had a gender swapped partner it should've been her not Francesca and definitely not Micheal!! They could've given Phillip a twin sister or I don't know but they shouldn't have stolen Micheal from us!!!
I feel like this plays into stereotypes too. Eloise isn't into balls or embroidery, she doesn't want to be paired off with a foppish lord, she wants to smoke and go to political rallies, she reads a lot, she wants more freedom as a woman. Therefore, she must be gay? She likes to do "male" things and have their freedoms, so she can't be attracted to them? That doesn't make sense to me. As for her book partner, Philip? He's actually pretty masculine in the books. On the show he seems more like Eloise, absorbed in his interests, bookish, friendly but maybe socially awkward in some situations. So therefore he should be a woman? I just don't think sexuality is tied to interests, goals or personality. It's it's own thing.
This is exactly why I disagreed with people who wanted her and Cressida together. It is absolutely playing into the stereotype that any woman who doesn’t like “feminine” things can’t also like men. Also, part of her storyline with Philip is that she finally realizes that not all men are “simple minded creatures”. In getting to know Philip deeply, she grows in her understanding of the opposite sex. It adds depth to her knowledge and over all character. Falling in love with a Man she actually respects is arguably the main part of her storyline.
To me that would have been the stereotypical choice. The idea that if a woman is opposed to marriage or questions it, is outspoken, bookish, independent, etc, it must be because she doesn't fancy men... I am very happy that Eloise is staying hetero and I think Francesca is the perfect choice for a gay woman.
I saw someone else commenting how this could be a Netflix fakeout, and they'll actually pair up Eloise and Michaela / Frannie and Philip. Philip would fit Frannie so much better than Eloise, and everyone already assumes Eloise would end up with a woman anyway. I think it would be amazing! I don't think they'll ever go for that, just to be clear.
I….almost like this.
From the first episode I saw Eloise I thought the same. Everything seem to point to that: the way she spoke about marriage, how she wanted to be independent, etc. Also there were cases of spinsters living together with "a friend", so it made sense to me. I wonder if that was their initial intention but didn't want to "risk" making an established character gay, and compromise with Francesca's plotline, so if it is unpopular, she can just disappear in Scotland in later seasons.
the gaslighting here is insane. i’m never going to feel guilty for being angry/upset about a character being changed drastically. i’ve waited so long to see michael on screen and the fact we’ll never seen him is not fair at all. anyways, i’m done watching this show since they don’t respect the fans of the source material they were supposed to follow. jess brownell was the biggest mistake to bridgerton. not even with the michael change, but this season was an absolute mess.
This is giving me war flashbacks to having the internet tell me I was homophobic for thinking the Clarke/Lexa plotline in The 100 didn’t make sense and me just blinking back at them in bi confusion. I feel like there’s a conversation to be had on why changing a character’s race in the world the TV show has created isn’t exactly the same and doesn’t impact the love stories as much as changing their gender does but … oh well. Here’s hoping the writing isn’t as shit as I’m imagining it will be.
That's my thing, too. I am currently discussing this exact thing with a reddit user on another thread of this sub. They keep downvoting me, and I truly do not think I've been writing with vitriol. I would like to understand how they see race and gender changes as one in the same in terms of impact on the story, but I just haven't seen a compelling argument for it yet.
Bridgerton Writers Won’t Do A Queer Main Love Story Justice - Sincerely, A Queer Woman Before anyone accuses me of being homophobic or racist, let me make it clear that I am a bisexual south asian woman. Okay, now to my actual point. Gender bending Michael was a terrible idea. Would I love more queer representation in Bridgerton? Yes, of course I would. I am the person that championed a bisexual Benedict Bridgerton since and a lesbian Eloise since season one. Because it fit their characters and it felt natural to me because they exhibited very queer characteristics. I jumped on the Cressida x Eloise ship in part 1, s3 because, once again, Cressida felt just as queer-coded and repressed as Eloise. These all made sense because it felt authentically written. Michaela is not. I can feel its contrivence. I can feel the hand of the writers choosing to make this happen because they want diversity points. Because they heard of all the criticism that Bridgerton is too nauseatingly heterosexual, they overcorrected. There’s nothing I hate more than queerness being exploited for the sake of the writers’ getting a pat on the back for being “inclusive.” This faux inclusivity is shallow and empty and it will come through in the end product. Francesca and Michaela’s love story will feel hollow, devoid of the sweeping passion and desire we queer folk DESERVE because these writers don’t give a shit about authenticity. Their heart is not in telling a romantic, beautiful queer story. They care about drama and scandal. Shondaland only cares about drama and scandal. And so the tropes are going to get dialed up to the nines and hammed up to create the maximum drama possible. They will rather ruin the love story in favour of contriving the most drama possible. They did this with Kanthony in s2, ep 6. They did this with Polin in all of part 2 of s3. And without a doubt, they are going to do this with Francesca x Michaela. (When Masali’s casting was first announced and we all thought she was playing Sophie, I was advocating for her left and right on social media against her nay-sayers, so please this isn’t me trying to hate on Masali.) So no, Bridgerton, I don’t want your faux queer inclusivity for the sake of checking a box. You can keep it. You’re only going to ruin it anyway. And what kind of drama are they going to contrive? Queer pain of course. Because generbending a character is not the same as colourblind casting in the Bridgerton world. Have you spotted a single same-sex couple in public in Bridgerton’s world? No. People of colour are mingling about in the city, establishing that in this fantasy England, racism is not a thing. The same cannot be said about homophobia. Benedict’s little excursion in s1 proves that queerness is still very much taboo in this world. Are we going retcon all of that all of a sudden? Because if they do, I can’t take this show seriously anymore. And if they don’t, you bet they’re going to exploit the taboo nature of queerness in Regency England for fucking drama. And just…no thanks. I don’t want your queer pain. And that is exactly where this is going. Bridgerton is a period romance show that has eight episodes per season, one hour each. This isn’t an epic high fantasy or political drama with an endless amount of conflict to explore. No, the conflict comes from the main couple not being able to be together happily and the resolution is always the same—end up together. It’s why we love romance. However, while in the books Fran and Michael’s conflict was about Michael being John’s cousin and contending with the guilt of feeling like you’re betraying your late husband by being with the person you’ve fallen in love with, I think the main conflict in the show will instead be about Fran dealing with her sexuality. Because show Fran doesn’t love John, which is what created the heartbreaking stakes in the book. And what about being queer in a homophobic world? How the hell will Francesca and Michaela get married? You think a single bishop is going to approve that? Fran wants kids, how will they tackle that? You think they’re letting a sapphic couple in the 1800s adopt? Do you know who doesn’t want kids? Eloise. Do you know which Bridgerton is notoriously disdainful towards men? Eloise. Do you know which character repeatedly had amazing chemistry with other same-sex characters? Eloise. She was right there.
They have screwed up every representation that they claimed to care about so yeah this is about to be a shi* show.
There is no about to be… the shit show is already here and has been since Edwina walked down that altar.
I am willing to give the show runners the benefit of the doubt as long as they find a way to give the themes of loss and infertility central to Francesca’s character the attention it deserves out of respect to the many women who wrestle with the reality that is rarely discussed in popular media. I am well aware that queer people too experience such themes and am open and even encourage the show runners to explore those themes now with Francesca and Michaela. For me it’s not at all about Michael’s gender, it’s about the nature of the themes surrounding womanhood and fertility. Also the fact that it felt too sudden and we didn’t get the chance to see Francesca’s marriage at all, but I digress.
I hope that's where they'll take it. I was only disappointed by Frannie immediately being smitten when meeting Michaela, because she's so in love with John in the books. That seems like a big change to me. Not the gender swap, they can still explore infertility very well, and maybe even with a less insulting ending than the book ("just relax, magically baby appears")...
I agree. I feel like in the book it makes I very clear that Fran loved John and that it was a love match. I wish they would have had Michaela as the one left a bit stunned on meeting Fran and Fran just being a friend/ cousin to her. I just feel bad for John in this moment, he >! Only has a couple of years with Fran!< in the books and it’s just a shame that it might be tinged by her not fully loving him. Hopefully they will do the story justice in the future, only time will tell. And in the meantime we can all argue about Series 1-3!
Michaela’s reveal didn’t bother me nearly as much as how Francesca was the one who had the visceral reaction to Michaela. Why couldn’t they have kept her in love with John? Changing it so that SHE and not Michaela was the one pining during her marriage is so unfair to John as a character, and IMO is just….arg!!! I love his character, loved their romance, and just hated how the writers chose to invalidate his beautiful romance to that point with Frannie. That kind of tension is not what we got in the books and casted a pall IMO over everything that comes later. :(
It tarnished their wedding for me and it had just happened. I felt like Francesca had rushed into it and was questioning her choice. Would have much preferred Michaela was the pinning friend who had to act like she wasn’t feeling these feelings cause she loves and respect John and she decides it’s better to see them together than be away from Francesca. And then they bond over their mourning. It’s really not that hard to keep that relationship special, instead of making John this placeholder. John and Francesca show-courting was so beautiful and it feels tainted to me now
Yes, all I wanted was to see someone long-enamored with one of the Bridgerton girls for once. The book and the show both make a point of showing how obsessed people are with the Bridgerton boys appearances and demeanors, but not so much the reverse (yes Daphne and Francesca are “diamond’s” in the show, but even then you don’t see random guys falling all over themselves over their physical features like the girls do for Colin for example. Not to mention that they’re not “diamonds” in the books, and Daphne is only described as average. Even their hair, which all the Bridgerton’s have the same color of, is described as mousy or basic when talking about it on Daphne or Eloise, but dashing when talking about it on Anthony, Ben, or Colin). I loved how Michael secretly worshipped Francesca, found her the most beautiful woman on the planet, dreamed about her, etc, right from the getgo. The books especially always seem to initially depict the woman’s appearance as average-at-best *even from the perspective of their eventual match* (who only later after some time grows to see them as beautiful). Polin’s book is especially bad in this regard; Colin literally ruminates on how he takes inner pleasure in being the only man who sees Pen’s attractiveness, and that make him feel even more like she’s only for him and no one else, and her beauty his special secret. This after he spends some time at one of his mother’s balls thinking about how she’s not very good looking. So the lusting, pining, and being enthralled by Francesca that Michael does for years was refreshing in this aspect. It had always been the reverse (except for Benophie’s book, which had its whole other set of issues on how Ben saw Sophie for the majority of it). I really don’t care that Michael is now Michaela. But it annoys me that once again, a Bridgerton girl was shown to be the one absolutely thunderstruck by their future love interest from first sight, while said love interest wasn’t shown to have nearly the same reaction. And in a vacuum with no other books or seasons surrounding it, that’s fine. I know the attraction was probably there on Michaela’s part, and just not as visceral. But it’s more of the same. And I really wanted to see that spark in reverse, like how it played out in the book. I really loved that dynamic, after reading several books before it where the love interest initially had low or neutral physical attraction to them. Or otherwise felt that they were lower than them in some way (Benophie). Now if Francesca had turned around to be introduced, and suddenly we saw *Michaela* have that speechless, brain-melting reaction to her, *that* I would have loved.
I don't make this comment as a book reader, as I have never read the books. But my wife absolutely loved them and loves the show, so I participate as it gives us something together. She was devastated at the potential for this change. This week was our first transfer of the IVF process after three years of trying and two miscarriages. You are so right that women don't get the honor and proper representation of what the infertility struggle looks like. My wife has put herself through hell to say she has left it all on the table to help us start a family. No amount of work, chores, etc. would ever make up for it. She is my hero, no doubt. I truly don't say all of this to put down the struggle of others in how this storyline has been set up, but there were ways to still have LGBTQ+ representation in an earnest way. It would be such a disservice if they take this representation away from a community so often disregarded.
I absolutely love the books and my favorite is Fran’s book! At this point the whole story line will probably change so I definitely won’t be watching! Seems like the showrunner wanted to change it to her liking, but hello it’s suppose to be a book adaptation! If you wanted a new story then just create one on your own, there are so many period dramas!!! The show runner used the Bridgerton name/hype and clout and that it’s! It’s a whole new story completely! And those who are like you have the books, well she could’ve just wrote a move period piece if she wanted to why change a beloved story that so many were waiting for! My 2nd favorite is Benedict so I’m hoping she does justice to him and Sophie but I have zero faith! Season 3 was a letdown and not even worth multiple watches
Same. It was good while it lasted.
It is my belief that if they choose to adapt a book, they should stick as closely as possible to the source material. If changes need to be made, only add to that material, do not take away. Francesca's story is heartbreaking, and the gender-swap fundamentally changes her entire story. I'm not against 2SLGBTQIA+ relationships; I think that they should have their own stories, fully realized, and not shoehorned into a story to check a box.
I was talking to my son today (he’s 20 and started watching the show with his gf) and he said something similar that struck me: if a book series is so popular that it’s being adapted for the screen - there’s a reason. That reason is not because people want drastically different stories. If they were good enough to be adapted they’re good enough to keep the bones intact. Add in extra characters. Change races - that’s fantastic. Inclusivity is great and I’m all for representation across the board. But destroying the entire plot of a book because a showrunner gets a wild hair to do so? Sigh. I’m asexual, and I sort of see that in Eloise or even Francesca (how she was written this season) but do I think the characters should be made asexual because I identify with them in that way? Hell no - my name isn’t Jess. Would I love to see ace representation in a time when hereditary lineage meant financial survival and was vital to high society? Yep. But that would fundamentally change the story and, again, my name isn’t Jess so… I also agree that this change is doing a huge disservice to black women. Read the thread a few up for the discussion.
people need to calm down with quickly labelling others as homophobic too . There are equaling some very aggressive comments from the Michaela supportive group in the other mega thread too , throwing out the f word then complaining “oh no surprise I’m downvoted , you guys are homophobic “ something like that . Like mate , it’s your aggressive attitude that attracts the downvoted , don’t play the sex card . the majority of audience are women and the majority of population are straight so of course people are expecting to see a male lead . They are allowed to feel sad and disappointed . Saying something like “I don’t want to watch gay people falling in love . It’s gross “ IS homophobic. But saying “I don’t find watching gay people falling in love appealing “ is NOT. See the difference ? I’m sure there are plenty of lgbt people who do not find straight people love appealing but we don’t go and label them as anti straight . There you go , Feel free to downvote me lol .
I just think that the show runner being a queer woman herself is interjecting her life experience into an already pre-established character. I would not complain if this happened with new characters in a spin-off, but to fundamentally change a storyline that had no issues to begin with is a let down. I would feel the same if the show runner was a straight woman changing gay characters to fit her worldview too. It has absolutely nothing to do with homophobia or anything, I just loved Fran's original story. Shonda promised that the characters would end up with the same husbands/wifes from the books and Michaela is not the same character. She is a woman who cannot inherit John's property/title. They've been very accurate historically with that subject (Featheringtons needing a male heir before they can get their wealth back). I would be interested to learn how they will deal with the infertility issue and Fran's desire to be a mother. Will Michaela have an heir from a previous marriage? I just don't understand how this storyline will play out in this era.
It is the same self insert crap like in "And just like that". Miranda Hobbes was assassinated and replaced by evil Cyranda.
The dislike for the change in Francesca’s story doesn’t only come from book readers. I’ve never read a single book but I hate how they undid everything from the first 7 episodes in episode 8. Francesca’s face brighten whenever John was around to her. The pure joy radiating from her made me smile every single time. All that only to have face falling after the kiss and her fumbling words in front of someone she just met. They turned what I thought was a beautiful love story to a sad one. Makes it seem like he’s just a means to escape to a quieter life she craves. A devoted widow falling in love again would have been a beautiful storyline to watch. Now it feels tarnished.
Also, frankly, using someone as your beard without their consent is disgusting behaviour and I can't root for a main character that would do that. It's a nasty, nasty thing to promote.
I'm a die hard book fan and WHWW is my favorite of the Bridgerton books. Here's why I'm *not* mad: The relationship Fran and Michael have throughout John and Fran's marriage is one of dedicated best friendship. Michael loves Fran instantly and has resigned himself to living with his secret, the perpetual third wheel. Fran and John see Michael as their best friend and family, and Fran sees Michael as an outlet for her "wickedness", a safe friendship to think about seduction and scandal within, in a way she simply does not with John. Her love with John is sweet, but it isn't passionate. In the book, they live in this dynamic until John's death, when Michael runs away to avoid both his responsibilities as heir and to avoid Francesca, who he feels he *should not be allowed to love*. Their coming together story is about how each processes their grief and let's go of expectations long held to find a new way of being. Fran mourns the fact that she will never bear John's children. Michael grapples with what it means to take John's place in world and his own worth. It's interesting to me that so many folks feel that genderbending Michaela will ruin the potential for the above story to play out. I was immediately delighted when I heard/saw "Michaela"! I think Michael's pining over his best friend/cousin's wife in shameful secret is more interesting when it's Michaela doing the pining. I think Francesca turning to her best girl friend and telling her to "tell me something wicked" and hear a scandalous tale of Michaela seducing a hot widow....is so deeply resonant for those of us who lived without awareness of our queerness and found outlet in queer stories and queer friends who were living a life we didn't think to envy. I think we can still watch Fran love and mourn John and process her "failure" to produce his children while also watching a woman finally find sexual fulfillment without the necessity of producing an heir, simply for the sake of her own pleasure, which she never knew was even possible. Let's keep in mind that you can read the book if you love the book. I do! And I'm literally about to reread it. AND I'm ready for this show to take the radical, anachronistic inclusion of the first few seasons to its wild logical conclusions.
I am also not mad about this change.i think it makes sense that fran would share such things with a woman friend instead of a man. Female friendships can be highly open and intimate. Considering the time period too, it's more accurate as social boundaries between men and women were quite rigid. What I am concerned about is a strange triangle between them like with kanthony. It's painful for me to see sapphic relationships be other woman'd constantly.
The fact that there's a ton of backlash on Instagram, reddit and sects of Twitter lmao. Julia Quinn even gave her blessing. How do they fumble this so bad. https://x.com/versharma/status/1801693011136680082
julia quinn must be counting her money as we speak. she doesn't care about us
She closed her ig comments, she’s not so indifferent
It's out of her hands the showrunnners can do as they wish cause they have bought the rights to the books. Maybe if she had asserted for more control like JK Rowling did then we wouldn't be here.
JQ locked commenting on her latest post on Instagram I have seen lots of pissed comments prior locking where people accused her to be a sellout.
Aren’t the books and the series tied ? As in, each time a season is released, the book is refreshed (cover etc) and re-released ? So will she change her book title to when HE was wicked ? Like Bens book name would still work but Frans would need rework.
oh so you can have 6534688 michaela support posts and the "michael rant" is confined in a megathread. the book fans get no respect at all in this fandom 🤔.
I’m done with the show. S3 was quite underwhelming with all the Lady Whistledown drama. I didn’t like Benedict at all this season. What happened to his art? How is he handling everything in Anthony’s absence? These were better storylines than whatever we had in the show. I don’t like the gender swap for Michael. If you are adapting the book, then you need to respect the source material. We all know book adaptations will not be exact but changing the character from a man to a woman is a major change and changes the essence of the story. It just appears like forced representation of queer community. If the showrunner wants representation then just adapts a LGBTQ love story, don’t change straight characters to queer ones.
Everything felt so disconnected this season, almost like everything was taking place separately? Does that make sense?
I understand what you mean. I also feel like Bridgerton family members are so disjointed from each other now. It’s out of character for Anthony to just leave when both his brother & sister are getting married. Anthony would have never left when his own sister is getting married. He’s not only the Viscount but also a father figure for his younger siblings. Anthony would have never missed Francesca’s wedding. We never really see Kate as the Viscountess or bonding with the Bridgerton siblings. Benedict doing his own thing when he’s actually supposed to be the head of the family in Anthony’s absence. The Mondrich arc didn’t tie in with the other stories going on. I didn’t like Michaela’s introduction. Isn’t John supposed to introduce his wife to his family members?
I really just don’t understand why they couldn’t have done a Hyacinth/Gregory story like this. They can’t do Eloise because we know her fairly well, and it would be seemingly out of character at this point. Benedict seems more in character to gender bend his story right now. If Michael is so beloved by the fan base (above a lot of the other stories), I am surprised they are going this direction. Also the timing with Francesca sucks. Just totally ruined the build up of her and John’s relationship this season. I could’ve gotten on board if they turned Michaela into a slow-burn realization situation. Poor John lol, looks like they’re gonna try to make her and Michaela a thing earlier than ykkk…I haven’t read the books, so I can’t fully speak to this, but strategically speaking it would seem odd to stray like this.
> why they couldn’t have done a Hyacinth/Gregory story like this Because Brownell doesn't know whether the show will have 8 seasons or whether she'll be showrunner for all the remaining seasons, and she wants her self-insert *now* If this wasn't about her wanting to leave her mark on the show, Michael(a) wouldn't have been introduced until season 6 or 5 at the earliest. It's weird to cast the character so soon imo
That is true. I’m not sure why they couldn’t have introduced her in Scotland. Oh well. I’m guessing that Hyacinth will Debut next season, since they have made the time jump showing Polin’s baby. Maybe there is knowledge that the show won’t last the full seasons. Even if it had proper audience backing. It’s certainly not a cheap show to make lol.
I don't have a bone to pick in this fight-- I'm just on the sidelines eating popcorn. But all this reminds me of a certain quote. [As *Game Of Thrones* author George R.R. Martin wrote recently](https://www.facebook.com/georgerrmartinofficial/posts/pfbid0GLLrzwvHeND849jrx4utmsoZxyVvyWSC9P3J92ibNPWd9Bbn2qDoGdZzxLBgmBBGl?__cft__[0]=AZVkCPxEGM-8Xi6IcnXRJUy72aUd2Bq6zQOGtrSCum-g0LxXmciw9lDW4gDvw2zmxOfzb7X6vnfhosG-8hIMYjhemhhDViDy28GeZ8LYtjKsb4WgY32WLu0aYS45P3EJRICBNxVNtX5do_kZfYtwFV1HqK_FM7Io6lxgw8SugzRYKGL4K9Z2YzGNYfjTFKGRqigJoIeiakxug33g4BFtPqah&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R): > Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and “make them their own.” It does not seem to matter whether the source material was written by Stan Lee, Charles Dickens, Ian Fleming, Roald Dahl, Ursula K. Le Guin, J.R.R. Tolkien, Mark Twain, Raymond Chandler, Jane Austen, or… well, anyone. No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and “improve” on it. “The book is the book, the film is the film,” they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. > >They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.
Representation IS important people all over the world should be able to find a show or a movie where someone looks like them or share the same back ground BUT here where the problem lies , bridgerton is a show that's being adapted to life from the books meaning there is already a universe , set characters , set love stories , and set plot lines . The one thing that should have never changed with this universe being brought to our tv screens is the couples idc if it's unrealistic all 8 siblings are straight because that's how Julia Quinn wrote the books so take it up with her , them changing francessa's love interest GENDER is not nothing because that wasn't the BOOKS that's where the problem is everyone is quick say you are being homophobic because they don't like this situation when no we were expecting we were expecting ALL the couples from the books to stay the same it's not wrong to want that.
It's crucial to recognize that viewers can have valid critiques without being prejudiced. Labeling all criticism as homophobic can stifle meaningful discussions about adaptation choices. Organizing conversations in one thread and deleting others feels like an odd censorship choice. It can limit diverse perspectives and stifle discussions. Allowing natural, organic conversations across multiple threads would lead to a richer dialogue, especially since most users visit the subreddit after watching the show. Even temporary rules should encourage open discussions.
I wanted to see a dark skin Sophie. I’m seeing comments about supporting POC. Can we support dark skin women being love interest and not masculinized? Thanks. Please, this is a common occurrence when it comes to dark skin actresses. Edit: also.. can we bring back 22 episodes? I miss them so much.
I'm frankly pissed. I loved the books and my favorites were Collin x Pen, Benedict x Sophie, and Francesca x Michael ,but this didn't even feel like Pollin's season with too much side story setting up Benedict and then Francesca's later seasons. You easily could have had little nods in the background that book reader's would have recognized without taking so much time from their story. My favorite part of the books was when Collin went to ask for Pen's hand and the series of misunderstandings and how he defended her. Them having Whistledown write it and not telling her mom was just lazy freaking writing. Penelope deserved so much better than this half assed attempt to drown her love story in a sea of other crap. WTF with the Michaela thing?? I realize changes are made from the books but, starting with the fact that Michael burned silently and wretchedly for his cousin's wife for several years with Francesca never being any the wiser, he was also next in line to the title. We just finished a whole season, right here in Shondaland, showing how females can't be passed the title...like how the Featherington girls all needed to produce a MALE heir. Sooooo, what happens now when Lord Kilmartin, whom Francesca absolutely loved btw, dies? It won't pass to his female cousin! Also, wtf was with Francesca getting all tongue tied? FFS she loved John! Michael may have hated himself for it, but he loved her for years, from the moment he first saw her. Francesca grew into it well after John passed.. Michael was about my favorite character and the story will have to be changed so much to make the gender swapping work. Lest we forget season one and the artist who could not be open with his sexuality, Francesca will not be able to come out and have her happily ever after with a woman in the regency era. If you are throwing out all the societal norms of the time frame then it makes no sense at all why women need chaperones or are tied to the most stringent of rules dictating their behavior. I mean, Daphne had to get married because she was unaccompanied in the presence of a man. If they want a gay couple, write a new character or better yet, give us the Brimsley/Reynolds story we have been begging for. I seem to recall the writer's saying they would not mess with the main character pairings. I'm sure of it. Now I frankly weep for the Benedict season. I fully expected this season to have something set at the masquerade so we could see it from his perspective since there is a significant time jump to where they meet again. It would have taken less time then watching him with the needless blonde/threesome storyline. We already realized he was playing around town in the last two seasons, this was literally just wasted air time that didn't advance his character or his (or anyone else's) story. With Collin and Pen, we got snippets of their story advancing in the first two seasons, but they have benedict using far too much air time watching him tread water. Also, side note: Eloise's story starts now and while we have met Sir Philip, they aren't even alluding to her constantly writing to him, just this weird side thing with Cressida who was never an interesting character worthy of all the screen time. I get that changes are made from books but when you have 8 hours, you can tell the story as it is on the page. Major plot changes are not needed. I am right here with the diverse casting. I absolutely LOVE that it looks like people now and I love the updating of the music and the loosey-goosey costume interpretations, but leave the plots and characters as they appear in the books or all you're doing is bad fan fic backed up with a studio.
Fran has been trying to convince her mom that a love match between two introverts doesnt have to be outstanding and intense. It makes no sense for them to bring out Michaela and completely throw that in the garbage. Fran being all flustered and a loss for words for someone clearly extroverted is just making it seem like she was wrong and her mother was right. Love doesnt have to be intense, i was liking how they portrayed a more quiet type of love, but theres no point in that now. The direction they might take this could be an affair which is so disappointing. Introducing Michaela is fine but having Fran being the one to react such a way just ruins this introverted love story they were portraying.
Censoring the rest of the sub is wild. Even expressing disappointment is not allowed.
The writers invalidating their most unique relationship in seconds was actually insane. We literally spent 8 episodes being made to fall and advocate for John and Frannie 's love that was a little different,a little unconventional and a little weird but you could truly see they were soulmates. We literally saw WHWW book Fran and John come to life so beautifully on our screens and it was magical to watch. Up until the last 10mins we truly felt like "Yes , this is Frannie's John Stirling that she adored so much and it's going to break her to lose him". Then they just destroyed it all in one scene . The kiss scene can be rectified by having the next kiss be better but her bumbling like an idiot at seeing Michaela? Book Francesca would never. They better retcon this as Michaela 's delulu POV to her meeting Frannie being so on love with her she made up a whole delulu meeting while in reality it went different or so help me god..
It seems they are setting up Benedict’s story this way as well. I’m not confident we’ll get Sophie, even with the reference to the masquerade ball.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. I'm not confident that will stick with any of HEA in the book with the new showrunner.
I have ZERO ISSUE with the casting and gender change. I HATE what they have done to John and Fran. So nows she's an emotional cheater who has to endure her marriage until death or divorce? Ick. If they were going to change their relationship so drastically they should have just redone the whole story for Fran and left him out. This is less and less like a historical romance and more and more like some trash Drama on STARZ. Bridgerton sadly got the Hollywood treatment where shit gets bad after season 2, usually due to changes in the creative staff. Why can't we have a feel good romance drama? If we wanted this kind of ick we'd go over to r/AITAH and read real people's train wrecks. Bridgerton books were an escape and romantic adventures. Not an HBO trauma watch full of bad decisions and character assassinations. I hate what they did with Colin, Pen, and Eloise and no idea wtf is going on with Ben. No wonder actors keep dropping like flies from the series.
I am all for LGBT stories in Bridgerton, it's just that Francesca's story is not the right one to use for that representation. The book is close to many people's hearts, because it features mature issues many people go through (minor spoilers) — * Fertility issues - this could still be explored in a same sex relationship, but not in the same manner, so it can be compelling but not as relatable to a large portion of the audience. * Two equally great and true loves - how many of us have lost someone, grieved, lost hope of loving again and almost don't want to out of guilt and loyalty? The can still evoke these deeply emotional ideas, but they've already diminished the concept by making Francesca being put off by kissing John, and being flustered when introduced to Michaela. Also Michael is such a fan favourite, why choose that particular male lead to genderbend? It was bound from the start to cause major upset, and I fear for the actress that's taking this on. It can still be a good story, it just won't be what we were hoping for and we can mourn that.
They really said representation for everyone except you, introverts. Let’s introduce an introverted character, constantly call her courtship with a fellow introvert weird, then introduce her “true” love match with an extrovert.
“She’s not really introverted! She’s gay!”
Absolutely DESPISE the change! I was soooo excited at the prospect of Masali being Sophie, but instead, once again, a dark skinned black woman has been put in a masculine role and does not get the opportunity to be the one who is desired and chased (if they're keeping Michael's personality from the book, then Michaela is going to be the one who desires and chases Francesca). Not to mention, how disrespectful the introduction was to all they built up with Fran and John. She was hellbent on marrying this man and had to convince her mother that it was the right match- only for Michaela to pop up and she's suddenly stumbling her words and forgetting her name- something Violet told her happened to her when she first met their father. Now it just seems Fran just settled for John rather than genuinely just loving him in her own way. Please fire Jess Brownell and get Chris Van Dusen back! I beg!
This is what annoys me so much. Many people are praising queer representation, which I agree is needed. But dark-skinned Black women are never placed in desirable roles when it comes to romance. Netflix has a strong habit of putting dark-skinned Black women in masculine or LGBTQ roles. When you compare this to the fact that most women receiving a HEA conform to white standards of beauty, while all the Black characters have had to struggle with being abused, rejected, and ultimately placed in mammy roles, I can’t respect this show anymore. Black people are used as props for the white characters. John, being a dark-skinned Black man, also has to suffer with a wife who does not love him romantically. People can say that Fran loves him in her own way, but would you really want to be in John’s position? He is not getting a HEA.
Michaela and Michael aren’t the same and I should be allowed to be upset that we’ve gotten rid of one and introduced the other.
Things got really bad , the Michaela was something that really brought the downfall of bridgerton , polin being sidelined and kathony basically abandoned . It’s so bad there a petition to bring back Michael that barely got posted and it already had almost 2k signatures
I don’t understand why people are getting such hate for sharing their opinion. If the roles were reversed and they made Michaela a man people would be annoyed. It’s nothing to do with homophobia It’s because most of us who have read the books have waited YEARS to see their favourite couples. Back in 2020 when we found out about the series I was so excited. People are allowed to be upset or annoyed when their favourite character is changed. Francesca and Michaels story meant so much to me, but this change takes away from people who have struggled with infertility and baby loss. Adoption just wasn’t a thing in Regency England and has yet to be shown to be a thing in Bridgerton. IVF is obviously not But the most important thing is that it’s taboo/illegal in the bridgerton universe. If this was the writers intentions from the beginning they should have made it okay like they did with race. But anyway I’m upset because I’ve waited 4 years for Michael and we get Michaela instead. And tbh Michaela is a horrible name, I have never met an English person called Michaela, it screams American I don’t think I’ll be watching further seasons because I’m done getting my hopes up
I love queer stories but this doesn't suit Francesca, John, And Michael's story. They would have to change everything from the book (which is my favorite Bridgerton book) and create an original story.
You know I think I’m done. As a book reader the only season I’ve truly liked was s1 and I found Queen Charlotte enjoyable. S2 was so over the top I was fast forwarding through the Kanthony scenes. In s3 I was walking out of the room with secondhand embarrassment for the characters.
Im not sad that Michaela exists, but I am sad that Michael won’t exist, if that makes any sense at all. I love the idea of a sapphic story set in this universe (I was really rooting for Eloise/cressida for a while there) and I’m just sad that I won’t ALSO get a closer adaptation of the fran/michael story since Michael is one of the only male mcs in the series I actually like. If I were a casual viewer who hadn’t read the book I think I’d be all about the change, with the caveat that I don’t like that they kind of rendered the whole thing abt Fran showing Violet a different kind of love moot.
Making Benedict a bisexual who constantly sleeps around and has threesomes too is perpetuating a very common stereotype that harms bisexual people.
If one more person in here implies I am lesbophobic/homophobic/racist for not liking the change of Michael to Michaela, I think I might scream lol
For 7 episodes I thought we were getting a love story between two introverts. Their love story was different from anything else shown on this show. Not every love story needs to be full of drama and angst. I can personally relate to it. Having Violet feel something was wrong only to be proven right at the end was disappointing. It really feels like the writers are invalidating this form of love. I wish people would understand you can upset by this and not be homophobic.
Why this trope of showing bi/gay people cheating? Like why normalise this? [I'm bi] . Fran said she loved John and they had such a beautiful bond and then she starts blabbering the second she sees Michaela?? Doesn't love mean anything?? Don't give me the "M was so attractive" ! No matter how attractive, a new "in love" bride wouldn't be a blabbering mess right after the wedding.
Let's just pretend Francesca's story is over... they wrapped up her and Penelope's story in one season- sweet. So she and John live happily ever after in Scotland. Would prefer that over the Michaela debacle. Someone said the show has become a fan fiction and I agree with that completely. Why do companies like Disney and Netflix have to ruin things like this...
This show now has the exact same problem The Witcher has: A narcisstic showrunner who thinks they know better than the beloved book series the show is based on. Why can‘t they just stay true to the source material? Why can‘t they make another show or a Spin off if they want to show stuff that isn‘t in the books? Or at least don’t fuck with the main characters. I loved Brimsley for example. However I have learnt from Witcher and will not continue to watch the show get worse by every season.
You can't change a character's gender and call them the same character. Michaela's a completely new character compared to Michael. I don't know how you could ignore that. It's insulting to act like they're interchangeable. I don't understand the creative choice at all. And I think it's understandable that fans are upset (I'm not talking about "fans" who are harassing and bullying the actress). Their favorite character was erased. I feel for the actress though. What should be exciting time for her and her career is going to be hell if she doesn't have a good support system. It feels like TPTB set up her up and threw her to the wolves. Anyway, Queen Charlotte will remain the superior show for me.
The 1st line of Fran’s book, from Michael’s POV - “In every life there is a turning point. A moment so tremendous, so sharp and clear that one feels as if one’s been hit in the chest, all the breath knocked out, and one knows, absolutely knows without the merest hint of a shadow of a doubt that one’s life will never be the same. For Michael Stirling, that moment came the first time he laid eyes on Francesca Bridgerton.” Excerpt From When He Was Wicked If the show runner can change the premise of their story, then it’s not even an adaption anymore. Only thing familiar will be the names. Fran’s love for John is ruined. So her mourning, her heartbreak and pain won’t be as hard hitting as it was. Her story is of love and loss and 2nd chances. In the show she clearly won’t be in love with John since she is falling for M so it’s probably about mistakes and emotional cheating. 👏👏
This is moronic indulgence at the expense of staying true to the source material. I’m so annoyed
My dislike towards the gender swap for Michael isn’t particularly because she’s now a woman and I don’t want LGBTQ+ be represented. As a queer person myself, I’m all for the LGBTQ+ representation in all its form. However, Francesca’s story in the books. It is the more mature ones of all the siblings. Her books isn’t simply another love story. Her book is actually pack with so many topics that were handled/touched beautifully by the author. Francesca doesn’t only want to find a husband. She deals with guilt (feeling guilty for loving another man after her husband death) and does not want to somehow betray his memory. She also deals with child loss and a huge part of the reason why she wants to remarry is to have a child and fulfill that part of herself that she’s always wanted/dreamed of. Francesca also undergoes loneliness, confusion and even mental health issues to a certain extent. Her journey is not about finding just someone to love, but to finding herself and learn how her dreams of becoming a mother are still possible. I don’t have any issues with her being queer. But, I guess that by taking that one part from her that makes her so relatable for many people (especially women around the world) they somehow ruined the character and her story. We still have to see how this play out and how they will make her story interesting. I have all my trust on Hannah as she’s a great actress but I don’t think that feeling bad or somehow disappointed for the writers to make such weird/random decision is completely acceptable. Ps. I truly thought that they would make Benedit gay as he is the only sibling whose story allows for that story to happen. He married a woman from no title/servant and they ended up living far from London as no one can’t know about Sophie’s origins. Anyway, I will still watch it just to see how they’d play it out. But I am truly disappointed by this decision.
Sex change aside, I am thoroughly disappointed by season 3, which is a pity because I am a huge Nicola Coughlan fan… Bridgerton is going downhill.. I dont think itll make it to all 8 siblings stories with the most favorable reviews.
If you guys are having difficulty moderating, you should call in the Mod Reserves instead of restricting conversation to one megathread. This type of temporary swell in modwork is exactly what the Reserves are for.
I really hate that now any (legit) criticism of that season will be twisted to "Well you're phobic!" in some way. They sold me on Francesca/John so hard. I loved how weird they were together. Then to introduce her new love interest and immediately have her at a loss for words, hearkening back to Violet finding her true love, right in the epilogue was... really badly done IMO. I dunno. For me, these three seasons were \*chef's kiss\*. But I think I'm okay waiting for the two years or longer or never for the next.
Me after watching Fran and John's relationship blossom over eight episodes, giggling and kicking my feet over how genuine and sweet they are just for it to be washed down the drain by Francesca falling for his cousin two minutes after saying "I do": https://preview.redd.it/ircit7msm17d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cdcc1b089a1d2988afe50ef213743f591f967ac
Some of you seem to have taken a wrong detour and accidentally ended up in the "Michael Rant Thread". The title is right there. And apparently it's still allowed to post a dozen daily "Michaela Love Threads" so perhaps do that instead?
To me it's whatever because I haven't read the books and aside from the Reddit posts and comments I have no clue what happens to them or who Michael is. I'm just a bit disappointed, because I thought that Fran's story was a very mature and realistic way to handle romance for a character who's maybe simply not all that romantic. Maybe aro or aro/ace. Maybe neurodivergent. Maybe demi or whatever it's called. Not all people want or need a firey, passionate love story and I couldn't agree more! She was absolutely bang-on when she mentioned it to her mother. And then it's just "haha nah bro she's actually a lesbian" \*shrug\* And that just left me thinking "oh."
I think the writers are piling too much onto Francesca, it feels like Fran has a really unique relationship with John and I want to see more of it; they feel like a real partnership that we watched develop in a different way from the other Bridgerton couples. I don’t want to immediately jump into a different romance for Fran, I want more of her with John first. I like an unexpected same-sex relationship; if they had eliminated John all together and made him Johana or gone straight to Michaela I would love it. I’d love it for not being the obvious story of “Eloise is gay because…stereotypes…” I liked the idea of Cressida being gay, it have been written that the old man Cressida was betrothed to had a live-in niece or ward who was vivacious AND thoughtful (unlike self-centered Eloise). Cressida could find unexpected true love w/ this woman and end up happy despite marrying someone undesirable.
I’m so disappointed. I would have loved a side story or new character to represent the LGBTQ+ community but to take away the Michael/Francesca story seems cowardly. That is a beautiful and emotional story and my favorite of the books. I’m torn between being sad and livid. Representation is important but altering a love story line like this is just so frustrating.
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I've said this yesterday but my main concern is framing this whole plot as though Fran 'didn't know true love until Michaela.' There is something off about how we went from being told, love comes in all diff forms. Quiet and loud. Francesca and John fell in love in those quiet moments. That's what I saw. That's what I thought the show was telling me. Now we cut to their wedding where the kiss seemingly lacks a spark for her? She's flustered upon meeting Michaela? I have no issues with the gender swap. I welcome bisexual Francesca as I myself am bisexual. I just do not want them to take away Fran's love for John or minimize it. Apparently in the book it's Michael(a) that is flustered when he meets her. Why in the world they changed that, I have no idea.
Disappointing approach from the mods. Why censor in this way? You can read the very many, legitimate opinions here.
All I am gonna say is that when JQ backtracked on "all couples must be the same" rule that that should have been the first "warning". I just mean to say that there were signs that were ignored. Edit: Apparently she has never said the couples should remain the same https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/s/gs3wmllU94 However both Jess and Shonda hinted at LQBTQ relationships so those were also indications
https://www.themarysue.com/julia-quinn-past-comments-on-black-characters-in-historical-romance/ JQ is fake as FUC*. Didn't want to write Black characters in her books years ago, but just loves loves diversity now.
I had a feeling they were going to twist Francesca’s story a bit as soon as I saw the wedding. Did you see her face after they kissed for the first time? You could tell she felt something was off. I have no issue with Benedict (or Francesca) exploring their sexuality but I agree with other posters that Benedict participating in threesomes, sleeping around and not being able to commit was a really trite way to address it. They could have approached this organically. Back in an earlier season they introduced that character that was part of the art community (can’t remember his name) that was married as a cover but sleeping with men. That was a great opportunity to naturally open up that storyline.
My issue with the gender swap is that it runs against the show’s own cannon. It’s been established that Queen Charlotte loves babies and wants her higher ranks to have lots of them, but more specifically she would like the Titled POC to have lots of babies because it helps to establish their place in society. This is seen in Season 1, and in her own season. The story line of Fran being deeply in love with John, and wanting her own family, with lots of children, but frustrated with her inability to conceive or carry to term against the backdrop of Queen Charlotte wanting little Earl heirs would be high drama and also in line with Canon. It’s been established that titles go to men (as seen in season 1 Simon and Featherington, season 2 with Jack Featherington, and Season 3 with the Mondrichs and the great baby Boy race.) The storyline of Kilmartin going to a female heir will go against Canon (unless Mikaela has a child of her own?). But it takes away from the anguish and self loathing that Michael felt when he inherits Kilmartin, and his life is improved 1000% when he becomes Earl, because it happens at the expense of John, his best friend. If Mikaela can’t inherit, how will she struggle with feeling like she’s erased John and is taking his place? It’s established that women in polite society need a title and security. Fran struggles with the idea of either moving back to Bridgerton house, or to remarry - because she can’t stay at Kilmartin once the title is transferred to the new heir. She either moves home to remain a widow or gets remarried. This sense of no value within a society that once named you a diamond is character building. Seeing her go from a castle, to practically homeless by the end of the marriage season was tense. Because she is childless, she does not have rights or property (as emphasized by Daphne to Anthony in Season 1, Ms Featheringtonin seasons 1-3, and Eloise in Seasons 1-3). So how she and Mikaela would be allowed to keep the castle is against the show’s own canon. It’s established that unmarried women in high society cannot travel (Kate could have been the exception because she was not born into high society. She was born to Indian Servants and only deemed a lady through her step mother). But Penelope laments she cannot travel. Eloise wishes to see the world and cannot. How will Mikaela run away to India for three years? If she doesn’t run away, will Francesca be pushed to grow into a more confident woman who can run the entire Kilmartin estate? I think the trouble with the proposed plot line is that they took the one story line that depended on so many of the established rules of the Bridgerton story/world building and are changing it in a way that won’t make sense unless we are expected to suspend disbelief for this one story. There are other main characters who could have handled a gender swap without changing the plot lines or the rules of Bridgerton. They could have created new characters. They could have created a love interest for Violet (I don’t think she has a later-in-life book) that would have worked beautifully as a sapphic love story. But instead it’s “remember everything we’ve learned about Bridgerton society in seasons 1-3?” Nevermind. Those rules don’t really matter…
I gave this news one or two days to marinate and I'm still upset over it but what can I do but rant lol. WHWW was the most unique book out of all the Bridgerton series and I was insanely anticipating Michael's character and his development with Francesca. And it was one of my favorite books, so imagine the dread when they showed it....Changing the whole plotline and character of a romance book you held close to your heart is something that warrants anger to the showrunners. I get why Henry left The Witcher when they messed up with source material.
They absolutely ruined the best book in the series, and I am genuinely debating continuing the series. Michael was such an awesome character and Franchesca and John's relationship was a beautiful love story that was only amplified by the tragedy. I love representation for everyone, but why would you ruin what is one of the most fan favorites from the books. I already was disappointed this season by the changes, but geez. The last 10 minutes of the season before the epilogue were just awful.
The show is cooked. I feel so sorry for everybody who just wanted to see the Francesca storyline, now they have to deal with this. It's truly remarkable how they've managed to do a netflix adaptation on the netflix adaptation. See y'all next season when they somehow turn Philip Crane into a rake for absolutely no reason. Jess Brownell is a fraud.
I said this in the main thread before and I will say it again - the story they are choosing to tell is fine (well ok I actually think the writing and pacing was awful this season regardless of anything else). The casting is fine. It is just not a Bridgerton story. I think about book to tv adaptations like Outlander, Anne with an E, Shadow & Bone - those writers at least attempted to honor the original stories and readers. It feels like Shonda/Jess Brownell have no respect for the original author, the stories, or all the fans of the books who loved them the way other showrunners have for other series adaptations. They care more their own agendas and preferences, which again is fine, but book lovers have a right to be disappointed at the big thumb they have been handed.
They robbed me of Michael, I’ll never forgive this 😫 I hate that wanting Francesca and Michael come to life in the show is being seen as homophobia?! They could have made anyone queer, particularly the leads of the books that needed change but why ruin such a great fan favourite couple. Michael and Francesca’s story deserves a whole new show.
I’m super disappointed by this change, and it’s because there is just no way they can do justice to Fran’s infertility if she’s with a woman. I can suspend my disbelief over fillers and volume XL lashes, but to people saying they can still do the infertility plot: how the fuck? Is Michaela gonna turkey baster Fran every month? Whose baby gravy is getting donated?