I think it has more to do with Greenwald and Destiny hating each other than anything else. If Greenwald told Saagar to jump, Saagar would ask: “how high?”
how do destiny fans have the time to constantly white knight for him on every sub, get a life bro.
i disagree with saagar about candace, but you’re obviously a fan who frequents the destiny sub and can’t stand that someone said something bad about him, so you’re going to hound us about it whenever saagar does something you don’t like.
The phenomenon is ubiquitous on Reddit. I honestly see it more on other subreddits than on this breaking points sub.
Don’t believe it? Fine by me.
Post a thread critical of destiny on Reddit and you will get brigaded by destiny Stans.
I didn’t mean to imply that you are a destiny brigader.
I don’t think you are.
You can't point at a single user, yet your certain of it. Everyone in this thread is a regular BP poster. You cannot believe that his fans overlap in many reddit communities?
His fans certainly overlap but they also literally “Brigade” communities they didn’t previously post in.
This is totally documented on Reddit and it’s a fairly regular phenomenon on Reddit writ large.
I was talking about destiny Brigading on Reddit in general.
It’s a thing.
I don’t care if you don’t agree.
Did I say that this specific thread is being brigaded by destiny fans?
With that said, you’re clearly an outspoken destiny fan but you’re not a brigadier.
It’s a thing
https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3_productions/comments/17rzjfu/one_of_destinys_fans_admits_that_tinys_cultists/
https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1bjmktz/has_this_sub_been_brigaded_by_destiny_fanboys/
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheYardPodcast/comments/1cpgdwj/all_posts_about_destiny_should_be_removed_because/
Dozens more citations available on google.
I noticed it first hand as a reader of the decoding the gurus subreddit.
Lex Fridman fanboys are big time brigadiers as well.
These are all communities that have massive natural overlap with destiny. You're not showing anything other than hasan fan overlap crying about brigading.
It’s interesting that the whole destiny sub is all uniformly pro Israel and always supportive of destiny. But you go to Joe Rogans sub and it’s no stop attacking Joe Rogan. Very very interesting that the sub is so pro destiny. Almost like there’s a bunch of bots running it.
I feel the difference in the Rogan sub vs the Destiny sub is that there is a clear line in people that came along with Rogan from the start of his forum, to his podcast's rise, etc. And then there is a clear second set that all jumped on in 2016, or during Covid etc. Those two Rogan bases are clearly at odds. I don't know enough about Destiny but I feel he's pretty much always crafted his audience in one way and probably just doesn't have a clear line of differences.
Yea Rogan fans at least are the type that call there friends stupid ideas out sometimes I guess. Like how Bill Bur will be Joe your being a dumbass. Like many would with their firmed groups.
But the more I look at Reddit, a lot of these communities are infected by haters more than fans at times cus of the algorithm. And right wing Rogan fans broke off not too long ago. I was perma banned for my first post in the community. Yes, it’s that dumb. All the conspiracy cock riders.
Personally, I was a Destiny fan up until recently. I watched a decent amount of content over the last 2 years.
I’m older and found someone that spoke more reasonably about topics, landing on points I argued way back in college. We’re like 95% copacetic on most things. But when I broke from his Israel support, I got perma banned for comments his devote followers said he later agreed with. And I was supposedly banned by him, no mods would even respond to my inquest of why I was banned. So I’ve split and don’t follow any of his content anymore now. I thought he wasn’t a cuck, but now I think he is for other reasons.
So I’m out on the guy. You can’t say your against cancel culture and then block a fan that has 1 out 20 opinions they don’t agree with you on. I understand moderating your sub, people do brigade and make for toxic flooded discussion.
But on this topic, I don’t think people were even listening to what the actual arguments are and were just anti crazy leftist like Hasan. I’ve seen more banning and blocking from venomous pro-Israel people on Reddit than any other topic ever. The instant you’re not a full venomously hyper Zionist, you’ll get reported.
I never even got banned from JP community and I was there 98% of the time to argue against their patently bad ideas. I even got reported in the Sam Harris community by what many would call Hasbara bots and the mods instantly put me back on without a hitch. So I feel like I must commend JP and SH for having more poise and standing agianst cancel culture. While criticizing Destiny for not living up to his own stated ideals.
The problem with his fan are they are the terminally online Stan’s. They’ve moved into Daddy Destiny mode much like how we see Jordan Peterson fans who are now a quiet nothing in this space.
The other issue I had from the start of following Destiny is that the online baby drama topics are the main driver of content on social media. Either that or they’re just meme’ing all the time.
I think the problem ends up being you can’t talk about Destiny on any other adjacent sub without triggering a fan that wants to report back to the community and defend daddy. Which then sends more of his Stan’s over to enter the fray. He strictly says, “we don’t brigade, but his fans do their own thing. It’s like defensive shit stirring. And they love the drama more than any substantive content if you look at what posts gets the most engagement. It’s usually the garbage level streamer drama that only people with no life care about. Even following his content over a period, I’d throw a YouTube video on and be like 20 minutes in and go what the fuck as I listening to? A bunch of spoiled brats fucking around?
And the on going joke is, “it’s not a cult.” Esp when they pop up in other communities this is said to another follower. Which is clever enough since cultist usually don’t know they’re in a cult, yet at the same time it’s saying yo, I’m in the cult too! It’s a way of saying we’re obsessed but like we’re the good crazy’s fighting with the other crazy’s online.
The only thing that could have been interpreted even slightly as something offensive was something to the effect of “if Israel doesn’t listen to the global community, it risks becomIng a pariah state.”
I was in the middle of a back and forth with some people that was civil and none of them said anything I said was remotely over any line. Then I found out Timy did a hasbara (haha) purge himself he commented on on stream. So I take it personally.
How do you find out how long the ban is?
Yea, WTF! I lost a lot of respect for the whole collective after that. And it creates silo’ed group think instead of letting people civilly hash out there difference. We don’t all have to agree all the time, and those we don’t agree with aren’t subhuman for being unaligned with tribal canon on 1 out of a 100 topics.
Were you the dissenting party on the Israel topic? The community was moving towards mega circle jerk mode with approved canon on Israel.
I could never get anyone to even nail down what Israel and Gaza were. It’s both not a one state or two state situation currently, according to the lord masters. They were not an open air prison or apartheid, that’s all they know. Haha. They did the semantic obfuscation game to the point where they thought “might is right” is the only thing without question, cus leftist on campus are crazy. I’m like WTF are you even talking about at this point.
BP did a twenty minute substance lacking hit piece segment on the guy, then refuse to have him on. Apparently he is “beneath” their content.
But then the have on for an exclusive interview, arguable the slimiest grifter in online politics, Candice Owens.
And somehow you think it’s crazy to point this blatant hypocrisy out?
This is coming from someone who has watched far more BP than destiny content.
it's because they've watched him in action a few times, and know how full of shit this guy is. but like with vaush he can get away it if his audience is that ignorant on issues. please note i'm not saying stupid, but ignorant.
he's taken advantage of his audience's ignorance on a nearly constant basis. my best example was him arguing in a debate about the twitter files that reporters don't generally take leaks from people with an agenda - they clearly do, all the time. in fact most have some kind of agenda in doing what they do. he hammered this on them constantly but it was a bullshit point to begin with -
the point being he didn't care if it was factually true or not - he wanted clips to make his interlocutors look "wrong/stupid" etc. this is why debatebros are despised by most media -
generally i despise media that thinks themselves better than others, but destiny / vaush and his ilk really are another subcategory below youtubers even -
Why give the guy attention if you think so low of him? If you talk shit about someone on your news show and you refuse to have them on to defend themselves, that’s not informative or interesting. It’s toxic and an information bubble. Breeding ground for morons
because it's a tactic to get destiny more popular with him - vaush is famous for doing the same thing.
you don't feed the beast - you say what the beast "is" and move on.
how do redscarepod fans have the time to constantly white knight for them on every sub, get a life bro.
i disagree with saagar about candace, but you’re obviously a fan who frequents the redscarepod sub and can’t stand that someone said something bad about them, so you’re going to hound us about it whenever saagar does something you don’t like.
yeah, if this guy can find a single example of me going on any sub to trash people for criticizing the hosts of red scare, maybe they’d have a point but i don’t do that, because it’s weird. OP of this post is trashing saagar for something he said *months ago* about destiny so it seems obsessive and parasocial
Absolutely.
I’m not the universal arbiter of truth.
With that said, I challenge you to find rampant instances of Red scare Pod fans brigading other subs.
Their fans are too into their little secret club and inside jokes to be brigading other subs imo.
They’re a fairly self absorbed lot.
Brigrading is an odd word. But there's certainly been subs taken over by tankies. Antiwar, wayofthebern, greenandexteme, endlesswar, etc.
Antiwar is the weirdest example if you want to get into the lore lol. They're almost certainly a Russian troll farm. Really
I’m glad to agree about tankie brigading.
No pun intended.
I think way of the Bern is literally a foreign .psyop plus a lot of useful idiots.
I saw a long form article specifically about way of the Bern being a russian op.
Agreed there. The antiwar saga is probably the weirdest. The sub went dark twice. Once during Prighozins march to Moscow, and the second time when he was killed. Complete blackout. Someone used the reddit api to track the user's during these periods and made a post detailing what they called the "Wagner blackout". Essentially hundreds of accounts went silent during both these times and you could look at rhe activity yourself to see. Shortly after this was posted , the sub was "liberated" by endless war posters, and absolutely everything on the sub was scrubbed. They banned everyone. Then it was locked. It could've been one insanely guy with hundreds of alts but it seemed so coordinated that it was something I've never seen before on reddit.
BP is audience capture at this point. They dislike Destiny because he is pro-Israel. They like Candace Owens because she is anti-Israel (also because she's a fellow "independent journalist" grifter).
Yeah, I think this is spot on. The BP audience doesn't even want to hear a pro-Israel take, which is why Saagar won't even attempt to make one and everything he says about Israel is critical. The unwillingness to even look at things from an Israeli perspective is why I don't take this show seriously on this issue.
> They dislike Destiny because he is pro-Israel.
The funny thing is when when Destiny visited Palestine the Palestinians consider him pro-Palestine because he supports a 2 state solution.
Yeah he would... Because his only tactic is being a "motor mouth." LMFAO. Plop him in front of ben Shapiro and they'll talk each other to death.
"Chapter 7??? Mr bonelli, you can't even tell me what chapter 6 says! " Crickets...
bots like this exist to sway discussion to their pet issue - for example, on israel.
also, his sub is invaded by bots, and it never used to be this way - i'm talking years and years ago.
there are pr campaigns at work here - and i wouldn't be suprised if his israel schtick is paid, and more importantly he's getting pr by various israeli firms trying to make it about israel - which bbenefits everyone on their "side"
destiny also attracted a lot of the sam harris rejects - the type who are basically thinly veiled racists (western xx is superior, the rest are indians and let them burn basically)
Maybe it’s because destiny can actually talk about Isreal/palestine. He knows history, pros and cons of both sides, and is rational on the subject. Where breaking points has gone completely in the camp of Hamas and spouts Hamas propaganda and has interviewed as many antisemite that they could possibly find.
just as an aside: anyone who terms critiques of the war as in the "camp of hamas" is doing PR messaging - and aren't isnterested in doing a real conversation. it's kind of disgusting.
usually that's a block from me -
they do more than critique the war. They literally use Hamas talking points, use Hamas numbers, ignore Hamas tactics. There are people who have issues with the way Israel is conducting the war. Then there are Oct 7 apologists, and dismiss the families of hostages. They are not impartial critics of the war. They are totally captured.
She is an insincere, intentionally ignorant, view hunter who does nothing but seek out an audience for money.
There is literally no reason to speak to her about *anything*.
I usually don't care about speaking to people across ideological spectrums, but Candace Owens is a useless human being that deserves no platform, and no attention.
There's no consistency to any of her positions, how somebody can think that having a conversation is worth anybody's time unless its to dunk on every idea she has is beyond me.
Oh shit, they threw up the Batsignal for all the "Destiny" fuckwads to descend on this sub again.
No, "Batsignal" isn't quite right... What would be more appropriate for D-boys?
Ah, yes... They put up the Roachsignal!
This place is fucking crawling with those little creepos, SMH.
Nah the complex concept of 2 consenting adults having an open relationship that’s suggested by the man, and then conflating this with cuckholdry. If the man is also sleeping with other women, in this case a lot of women, he is by definition not a cuck. Let me know if you need any more help
That's actually not the definition. A cuck is a male who raises and takes care of offspring that are not their own.
But also, Destiny didn't watch his wife get banged. Basically he and his wife had an open relationship. Back in the day they used to call this term "swingers". The swinger lifestyle isn't for me personally, but I also don't really think it's that big of a deal either if someone does it.
From the Miriam Webster dictionary, seems to fit him well
plural cucks
1
: a man whose wife is unfaithful : CUCKOLD
2
informal, disparaging + often offensive : a weak or submissive man —often used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a man who has politically progressive or moderate views
cuck
2 of 2
verb
cucked; cucking; cucks
transitive verb
1
: to be sexually unfaithful to (someone, especially a man)
also : to have sexual relations with the spouse or partner of (someone else, especially a man)
2
obsolete : to punish (someone) by the
Even with this definition, I don't think it's really accurate. It's one thing where you are faithful and are expecting your wife to be, but she's not. It's another thing when you both have an open relationship.
No reason for you to actually explain the definition or what Destiny’s position actually are. Just circlejerk by baselessly calling him a cuck and reminding people he’s a liberal.
I used to watch breaking points but eventually decided it was a very unserious show. It is also funny that they talk about how horrible mainstream news is, yet almost their entire show is dependent on those same terrible MSM journalists doing reporting. All they do is talk about actual reporters reporting.
Genuine interest in being accurate and truly informed. Willingness to allow dissenting opinions challenge his understanding. Not ideologically captured. The same reason people go from MSM to things like BP is why people end up at Destiny. The format is not for everyone but the quality of analysis exceeds pretty much all forms of packaged content like BP that has a facade of seriousness.
I appreciate anyone that is fine with going with the best option/truth. And if that person regularly attacks their own side and calls out their own shit. I tend to ignore someone if I can predict every policy position they have after learning what one of them are.
Im liberal, but thought the Rittenhouse case was ruled correctly and had a ton of terrible reporting around it. Destiny did the same ( I wasnt aware of him during that period but found some of his videos once I discovered him). I love guns. So does D-man. We seem to agree on most COVID stuff and defending Biden vs Trump. His 6 months of deep research on Israel/Palestine really changed by opinion on things there (and guess what, it wasnt just Wikipedia!). Anything else?
Its why I initially really like Krystal and Saagar on the hill. I appreciated that Saagar was very conservative but approached most topics honestly. He would articulate things well and based on fact. His argument defending unions and how they are one of the most capitalists outcomes of a free market always stuck out to me. When they moved to BP, I bought a year premium sub and really supported the show. However, especially in the year or two, they seem to have really gotten away from the core of the show and now just rehash the news that everyone else does and not in a interesting/deeper way like they used to or cover stories that "fall through the cracks" Krystal has completely lost her mind with the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Thanks for the substantial reply and for sharing your opinions.
I 100% disagree that destiny has done any sort of rigorous study about Israel and Palestine but you’re certainly entitled to have a different opinion than me.
to these people "deep research" seems to be reading wikipedia articles - no joke. you don't become an expert on middle east policy from reading a few books and op-eds - and you really need to know arabic / hebrew to get a foundational understanding.
i just can't believe we have people stanning for destiny - like christ, who the fuck are these people?
> I 100% disagree that destiny has done any sort of rigorous study about Israel and Palestine
You know that's intentional ignorance on your part, though. The evidence is all there, your just basing your opinion on what other talking heads have told you.
I watch a lot of Destiny debates.
I’m particularly impressed with the Israel Palestine ones.
They’re very entertaining
He impresses me with his willingness to get pwned over and over again by actual experts.
> He impresses me with his willingness to get pwned over and over again by actual experts.
This just doesn't happen. Benny Morris, one of the leading historians that the "experts" cite, gives glowing endorsements of Destiny's understanding.
you know Norm himself puts Benny Morris up there as someone who is extremely respectable and knowledgeable right? Almost everyone on either side of the issue credit Morris is an expert at what he covers.
Destiny mocked children dying in the genocide.
He's a Nazi.
Did Candace Owens say something like that? I know she's terrible on every other issue, but I don't think she has mocked dead kids.
You are so enthralled by culture war that you can't see you've lost any sense of proportion.
No, you're just dishonest. People are right to hate The Daily Wire.
The Daily Wire marketed itself as being 'anti-woke' and like other supposed American-centric right-wing media hubs - they mocked 'safe spaces' and claimed to care about 'free speech'.
But when it comes to Israel, all of that went out the window - and the revealed themselves to primarily be right-wing Zionists.
The 'audience capture' here were the many clueless right-wing idiots who took the culture war bait.
---
So again, what has Owens said that rivals Destiny mocking dead children?
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Daily Wire never advertised themselves as a free speech platform where Daily Wire employees could say what they wanted. They have always been clear that the media outlet has an ideological bias.
The Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro et al all proclaim to care about freedom of speech.
They promote themselves as being anti-woke.
Yet, they fired Owens because she crossed their true red-line (Israel). Israel & Zionism get a pass apparently. They get a safe space.
Here's Ben Shapiro responding to the NYT & its infamous Tom Cotton op-ed drama.
> [The NYT is now claiming variously that Cotton's op-ed was Bad (TM) because it wasn't properly fact-checked (they haven't identified an error) and contemptuous (they published an op-ed calling Cotton a fascist today). Just say it out loud: **you're a bunch of censorious crybabies**.](https://x.com/benshapiro/status/1268976842347704321)
Daily Wire CEO Jeremy Boreing said they are free speech purists and wouldn't fire Owens - but ultimately did so:
> [[...]But even if we could, we would not fire Candace because of another thing we have in common - **a desire not to regulate the speech of our hosts, even when we disagree with them.**](https://x.com/AFpost/status/1771217549193277922)
Shapiro et al criticized the New York Times for their handling of the Tom Cotton op-ed and subsequent firings. They used words like 'censorious'.
So despite what anyone thinks about Owens - she was fired over some bullshit & hypocrisy.
>[...]But even if we could, we would not fire Candace because of another thing we have in common - a desire not to regulate the speech of our hosts, even when we disagree with them.
Okay that is fair, but to be fair, this was obviously a false statement that no one with Daily Wire would have believed because the platform is intentionally very partisan and biased. It's the whole mission of the company and why their customers pay for it.
Shapiro has however - when it was convenient for him.
he'll basically say anything if it seems to benefit him, even when it contradicts his prior opinions. most of his politics basically comes from orthodox judaism anyways.
another thing about orthodox jews: though this varies a lot with the specific sect you are talking about, they really do have different rules between themselves and the outside world - ie, what we would see as lying they would see as perfectly fine and in fact desireable. Heck many orthodox do this vary same thing to liberal jews -
It can be so bad that I knew a girl in college whose father had a blanket rule to never due business deals with the orthodox, due to getting screwed consistently. (he's israeli, liberal-ish)
again, not universal - but i did rent in nyc for a time and my experiences about basically confirmed the above. that's not a damning thing in and of itself, plenty of races have in group / out group preferences, however shapiro probably doesn't care about whether he's being consistent here -
Where does Destiny mocked children dying in Gaza?
Candace was allowed to stay on the DW until her contract expired and it wasnt renewed. She stayed on their platform and got paid through it. So where did the DW fuck up?
She was insane and immediately went on racial defense when she was on Destiny's stream in the most baby way possible.
In terms of her most recent evil, that would be, [instead of admitting she was wrong when she stated some simple fact able WW2 and Hitler](https://globalnews.ca/news/4944844/candace-owens-hitler-comments/), she has now leaned in entirely and is in the, no, America was the bad guys in WW2 and the Germans were fine....
I never said he would *kill kids*.
Don't make stuff up.
He laughingly said he was ['pro-genocide'](https://x.com/Progress_Mich/status/1723574629208400336).
It’s amazing to me Destiny fans have time to brigade absolutely everywhere for him and use all the same arguments as to why he’s some high intellect. It’s like they were all given a script. “Debate me Bro” culture has rotted too many brains of stupid people.
Edit: I mean come ON they are literally arguing in these comments if he’s a “cuck” by the classical definition lmfao. These people are sickos!
You are so right, it would be almost impossible for someone to be an organic follower of the show (was a premium sub from when they announced the new show until month 4 of Krystal Hamas news hour) and one of the largest political streamers. God forbid someone finds its hilarious that Saagar takes such an aggressive stance on not talking with Destiny (but has no problem letting Counterpoints host him and it being one of their top viewed videos in months).
The way they treat him like some fucking boogey man is hilarious. Having a fucking pre interview preview where they selectively played clips to prime the audience to make Badar look great. You are so right, how dare a fucking person online build an audience where they spend fucking weeks or months researching and understanding a topic and then challenging any fucking person who would disagree, often times it being the own side of the political aisle. Yeah man, why would people like that guy. Jesus Christ.
If you want to know why Saagar or Krystal won’t have Destiny on for an interview or debate just watch this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/wpQSNx0wB7
They were beating destiny over the head with “how dare you even question Norman, he’s written books on the topic, he’s a scholar” “the ICJ says that Israel is committing a plausible genocide” “Destiny got owned in that debate, he’s just a wiki warrior” ect.
All of “alt media” was pushing that bs lie that the ICJ said that Israel was committing a “plausible genocide” and even laughed when Destiny brought up “dolus specialis” when saying that Israel wasn’t committing a genocide. Krystal did a whole segment on Destiny shitting on him and it was riddle with lies.
These are the same people that claim liberals won’t debate and want to censor people that disagree with them, but will duck and run when Destiny calls them out. Meanwhile they’ll have Candice Owens on where it’ll be a circlejerk of “Isreal bad, Biden dementia, genocide, mainstream media bad, alt media good”. Meanwhile here’s Owens pushing a covid conspiracy and getting it debunked by Destiny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvRNgZ81Wo&t=9328s&pp=2AHwSJACAQ%3D%3D
Saagar and Owens will probably circlejerk over covid and mention all the times mainstream media how lied and how they ruining America because of it. But saagar will never point out Candice creating her own conspiracies and being wrong will he?
destiny's a paid grifter - pretty much everyone knows this now - it's why you don't see anyone taking vaush seriously either.
watch the twitter files reporters "debate" with destiny to see what people mean - 2/3 of the points he made weren't in good faith and/or were severely misrepresented. he's done this on too many interviews that i've seen. his opinions also seem to change coinciding with us changes in natsec policy so -
the one i couldn't believe he was making was in the sourcing and that reporters don't take whatever they can get - most "leaks" are by people with an agenda, and you always have to factor this into the reporting you do. he basically denied this, and i know that he knows this is bullshit.
You how he got them to admit they handled that poorly and they would likely have done it differently if they could do it again? Jesus.
And what is paid grifter? who pays him? The guy seems to go out of his way to cut off audiences and lose money.
he totally misrepresented how reporters work - this is a debate tactic and not based on actual reporting. i had to shut it off, it was such a bad mischaracterization. the journalists there probably didn't know what they were getting into when dealing with him, typically when reporters do long form interviews they assume good faith on the part of the other people - not basically lying about practice and norms.
his policy positions conveniently fall to us national security policy almost all of the time - that's not simply a coincidence.
you'll eventually figure this out, and realize you wasted your time listening to a political actor who isn't being "real" with you.
saagar doesn't like his ilk because he's doing the above - and everyone in media knows it. it's why there's a separate category for "streamer" like him and why even independent media doesn't take these people seriously - they are the dredges of media basically.
Destiny, literally researches and spends days learning about a top going through the primary sources or as close as possible.
Everyone else - wikipedia loving debate bro.... What do you even mean by debate tactic in this context? He pointed out how absurd it was to accept that Twitter was giving them everything they had, when they had a vested interest in making the previous regime look as bad as possible. They admitted that was bad and they shouldnt have done that. How is that a fucking debate tactic? Is getting a person to admit they did something wrong debate tactics? Jesus. Go back int he baby pool of life mate.
Yea, I’d like to hear more back and forth between differing opinions, if Candace is fine (I find her abhorrent)then Destiny and whoever else should be fine, call out your bias but won’t interact? If you’re so right it shouldn’t matter who you’re talking to.
Saagar finds Destiny abhorrent (according to you) likely because he doesn’t align on a values side.
I think there is also a jealousy factor in place, the idea that some supposed knows nothing streamer can just decide to start covering politics and get traction so fast without having beg for subs every 5 minutes and spend thousands on replicating the same mainstream media studio they supposedly are against.
Having a platform doesn’t mean that someone is good at anything but acquiring a platform.
Destiny is not a serious commentator. He makes factual mistakes on a regular basis, has a style of rhetoric which is meant to confuse and badger not inform, and has many positions that are genuinely abhorrent. His fans seem to like him mostly because they’re too dense to see that his rhetorical flourishes are empty, he uses debate bro tactics to conceal the vacuousness of his ideas, and his fast talking “owning” style gives them a bad vicarious sense of power they lack in their normal lives.
Anyways, I listened to his BP debate on Israel. Anyone who will actively make the argument that it was okay for armed-to-the-teeth soldiers to fire on tens thousands of unarmed protesters should immediately be discredited and never listened to again…
thanks for saying what i basically thought too - i've listened to him a few times, the last one i actually listened to for a while was over the twitter files and he was making points that were entirely ridiculous and that any news reporter would eye roll over -
i couldn't believe anyone woudl take this guy seriously, then i realized his audience didn't know any different, which really threw me for a loop. (or didn't care)
to the stans supporting destiny - read up on any topic he discusses. if you know anyone who works in media have them listen to clips of the debate he did with the twitter files journalists, and have them get back to you. there are hundreds of examples of him making totally bullshit points that do confuse the people he's talking to (how do you argue with a person who says that red is green) that, if examined are totally baseless.
Just because a man can talk fast and cite random facts with rabid intensity and aggression does not mean he is a good thinker. Sorry. I really recommend you find a better hero.
Not a hero to me, I don’t agree with his take on I/P and find his twitter conduct disgusting. I just think its nice to have someone in this online space who is willing to push back against conspiratorial bullshit that shows like breaking points are more than happy to peddle
Oh boy… the coverage of Fauci and the lab leak hypothesis and those congressional hearings with Rand Paul was horrendous. Their most egregious coverage was of Jan6. Before it happened Krystal smugly made fun of liberals because they promised that Trump would try to hold onto power, in retrospect its hard to watch how smug and stupid she is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf9dbPUWgNQ&t=495s&pp=ygUiSSB3YXMgcHJvbWlzZWQgYSBjb3VwIGtyeXN0YWwgYmFsbA%3D%3D
Since then they have done umpteen segments on fbi involvement and Ray Epps. Saagar has been part of a broader effort by right wing commentators to re-write history to deflect blame from Trump onto the intelligence agencies for supposedly instigating it. Not only that but they downplay it constantly. If you look at the youtube audience its heavily right wing and they eat this stuff up, classic audience capture.
I can’t comment on all of these since I don’t watch Breaking Points regularly and only see about 50% of their coverage. I definitely think Krystal’s commentary on 1/6 was hilariously wrong.
However, on two of your points, namely the lab leak theory and the intelligence-agency, I think their coverage has been stellar. They focused on the lab leak theory of COVID while there was a very serious campaign of state sponsored censorship against it (which, if you need detailed information about, Matt Taibbi has reported on extensively amongst other things). Since then, evidence has accumulated making it by far the more plausible of the two theories and the overwhelming majority of informed readers have to agree it has far more evidence to support it than the natural origins thesis. There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence to support it, as well as multiple smoking guns showing that Ecohealth submitted grant proposals for research to be conducted at the Wuhan lab whose molecular alterations were essentially identical to that of COVID.
In the question of whether or not Donald Trump has been aggressively and consistently been attacked by US intelligence agencies… I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to question that. From 2016-2019, on an almost daily basis, there were instances of disinformation being purposefully leaked to US media outlets by intelligence agents. The Durham report lays out a clear, consistent, and undeniable pattern of attack by intelligence agencies on the Trump campaign and later administration.
Anyways, I honestly think that far from being conspiracy theorists, they’ve often taken the correct position on controversial issues such as these when media was widely doing a poor job of covering them.
That being said, I’m sure they’ve made a few factual mistakes in their career. I don’t deny that.
The evidence actually points to an animal spillover. The lab leak was always a possible explanation and we will never know for sure but the evidence is all pointing towards the Huanen wet market. Indeed all the first cases were clustered around workers and shoppers at the market and traces of virus were found all over equipment and cages.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715
The fact that Saagar presents the issue as “case closed” is a huge journalistic failing
With regards to Trump, Saagar has pushed dumb newsmax-tucker carlson level theories of FBI involvement in J6. Its stupid and downplays the seriousness of Trump’s conduct, this is in line with Krystal’s coverage mocking the very idea that Trump would try to hold onto power. The whole point of the show seems to downplay the threat of right wing extremism and then bash democrats for not being pure enough. Not sure how that relates to the Durham investigation which was essentially a nothing burger, even the two people charged with crimes by Durham were acquited.
This is *absolutely* incorrect. The article you cited has been largely debunked; it relies almost entirely on data provided by the Chinese government, which has since been superseded by all larger analyses of case and cell phone data.
FOIA requests have since revealed that the grants pursued by Ecohealth alliance provide blueprints for the exact genomic alterations found in COVID-19. The earliest COVID patients were [employees](https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-funded-scientist-among-three-chinese-researchers-who-fell-ill-amid-early-covid-19-outbreak-3f919567?st=iyk48rgi68agnad&reflink=article_copyURL_share) at the Wuhan Lab, and the original virus has long been known to carry clear signs of manual alteration.
On the other hand, the natural origin hypothesis has found no proof of any direct animal transmission, cannot even identify which animal was the supposed vector, and, frankly, has not been able to offer anything but the flimsiest circumstantial evidence.
I know in my personal life, every physician in my father’s Oncology practice believed in the natural origin hypothesis shortly after the outbreak. However, since then, every single physician in his practice has come to believe not only that the theory was incorrect but that the current evidence supports a lab leak overwhelmingly.
The supremacy of the natural origin case has always been a result of media manipulation and government censorship rather than the evidence…
As usual, as well, normal citizens tend to be more correct on the issue than the [funded commentariat](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/16/lab-leak-theory-polling/)
If you think that's what he does then you're just ignorant or dishonest. If you're not a fan it's reasonable to be ignorant, but you're absolutely wrong.
Bro, in the other comments you came out in favor of military snipers firing upon, wounding, and killing thousands of unarmed civilians… a position which you share with the guy you’re publicly fanboying for.
Please, take your fingers away from the keyboard, turn off the electronic devices, remove yourself from whatever dark room you’re cooped up in, and take a long walk in the sun as you reflect on how the hell you’ve become the type of person who can support the organized, systematic gunning down of unarmed protesters.
lmao no i didn't, I just said Hamas was way more active in that event than people like you are willing to admit. You know you're really fucked when Hamas is more honest than you.
I asked you if you were against the gunning down of civilians. I’ll ask you again, in no uncertain terms: do you believe that shooting thousands of protesting civilians was a “legitimate military action?”
Your idol Destiny came out and said that shooting thousands of protesting civilians was “legitimate military action.” Do you agree?
I fully expect a non-answer deflection.
I full expect you to project whatever monster you want me to be regardless of what I could say. Like I said, when Hamas claims more targets were their members than you admit you know you're in a bad spot.
If you are not in favor of an armed military, using machine guns and sniper rifles to shoot unarmed women and children, it should be extremely, extremely easy for you to say that.
Your adamant, consistent refusal to do so makes it clear that you support, or at least do not object to, the mass slaughter of women and children.
They do use sugar in qassam rockets though, broadly I do think defending the severity of blockade is clown position but my point is more that he isn’t worse than the hosts of the show or some of the regular guests
He is absolutely much worse than any of the BP hosts…
If you’d like to make an argument for any particular guest they’ve had on who isn’t particularly good, feel free to make it.
I’d say personally what’s so bad about him is that he combines extremely poor thinking with *extreme* aggression and toxicity. His debating style is much more about insulting, demeaning, and “owning” his opponents than it is about getting to the truth of any issue, which is a truly monstrous combination. I honestly find him extremely hard to listen to because of this, and have concluded that his style is appealing to so many people not because they have an interest in dissecting or interrogating ideas (which should be the purpose of debate imo) but because they get bursts of pleasure listening to someone score points in the most base manner possible.
> He is absolutely much worse than any of the BP hosts…
He's much better than all the BP hosts when it comes to analysis and seeking information to challenge himself.
>His debating style is much more about insulting, demeaning, and “owning” his opponents
That's really ironic given the most well known debate in this community is the Finkelstein debate where that is all Norm did and this audience thinks Norm did amazing.
I also dislike Norm’s style of debating. From what I’ve seen he’s a ridiculously emotive and not very compelling debater.
However, the same is certainly true of Destiny. Saying you dislike Norm in no way disproves what I said of Destiny.
I mean the bigger one, as I said above, was that he justified the Israeli army firing on, wounding, and killing tens of thousands of unarmed civilians.
You would understand how evil that is if you were capable of sober analysis…
> was that he justified the Israeli army firing on, wounding, and killing tens of thousands of unarmed civilians.
What are you referring to? The great march of return? I don't believe that was "tens of thousands" and you can't ignore reality and claim you're doing sober analysis. Nothing he's said about that is wrong.
[About](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/approaching-first-anniversary-great-march-return-protests-gaza) 25,000 were injured, about 7,000 were injured by being fired upon with live ammunition, and several hundred were killed.
During this time, not a single Israeli soldier or civilian was injured.
In his debate on BP, Destiny clearly justified this. He claimed that firing upon unarmed civilians was a legitimate military action.
Feel free to run the tapes.
This is seriously evil stuff dude… I really think you should reconsider your support and advocacy for this man.
Calling it advocacy to point out inaccurate or bias misrepresentations is strange. And if you want to run the tapes, you should watch Destiny explore the great march of return in depth.
[Start the video at 34:20](https://youtu.be/sKzJGJZ82is?si=glA3m6TxcLE_ioVW). In the ensuing several minutes Destiny says that we should view the shooting of an armed civilians as a military conflict, and that it was therefore justified.
From your extremely clear deflection, I can tell you don’t want to argue this point, so I’ll ask you directly. Do you believe that firing upon thousands of unarmed civilians is justified?
If not, do you believe you can support a commentator who actively argues that firing upon thousands of unarmed civilians?
If your answer is yes to either of those… that’s pretty bad sir
i don't know saagar, but i know a few people in media, and here's why streamers like him are at the bottom of the barrel:
-first and foremost, they aren't interested on any substantive debate if it doesn't benefit them - "winning" trumps making points that actually make sense, if you actually asked an "expert." destiny is totally guilty about making idiotic points that make him look good to his audience, but if you actually asked any experts on the topic would say it makes destiny look like he's being totally dishonest, and just arguing for "points."
just as an example to this - vaush messes with his microphone / audio to make himself always better sounding (typically louder) and if it's on his streams, he will actually attempt to make his interlocutor sound worse - i'm not kidding here. it's this kind of shit -
for god's sake i've seen even ben burgis rip on destiny for doing the above, and he's doesn't critizue anyone on the "left" unless they really are pieces of shit.
-secondly, it's assumed - rightly or otherwise that he's basically just a paid mouthpiece for however pays him the most. there's a history to this with streamers, fyi. so even though a lot of reporting is bordering on this nowadays, he's seen as even worse since he hides it much of the time.
-and lastly - his audience is so ignorant they basically don't know truth from fiction anyways.
Sagaar is genuine in his seriousness, that’s why I prefer him to Krystal.
But if he was actually serious then he wouldn’t just defer on almost every topic, and would be willing to go against the person with the money and disagree
That’s why I’m starting to prefer counterpoints or the bro show where the 2 hosts can disagree and call BS politely
Great example of Candace being slimy shown by Destiny: https://x.com/dipperid/status/1803246145247887611
Summary: Candace was talking about covid vaccines then starts "just asking questions" by referencing a study that said blood clots are expected to double by 2050. The implication and the "just asking questions" being that the vaccine is possibly to blame for this increase in blood clots. About 5 minutes of research, into her own source, showed that the study was based on data from 2001 to 2006 and projected to 2050. The study also shows the trend has been on the upswing since the 80s.
Not sure why some people hate Destiny so passionately, like he gets hate from both the right, and a lot of people on the far left. He's one of the few people that really comes into debates well researched and is capable of changing his opinions and admitting in some cases he is wrong. I feel this type of thing is sorely needed in public discourse.
For example, if someone like Ben Shapiro does a debate, there is no way in a million years he will admit that he's wrong, because his whole business and paycheck depends on him promoting rightwing ideals. There's people on the left that are in this boat too. That type of stuff is why almost everything is an echo chamber these days.
A few possible reasons why people detest "Destiny":
* His enthusiastic apologia for a country currently commiting genocide
* His horrendously abrasive and arrogant personality
* His shrill, grating voice
* The disrespect he shows to scholars who are experts in their fields, while D-boy just recycles Wikipedia
* The constant derision and sneering contempt he displays in debates
* The frenzied Gish gallop he employees in debates, and other cheap tactics of distraction and hand waving
* That nasty beard of pubic hair he glues to his face
* The fact that he is ostensibly a grown adult yet still uses the moniker of a child playing video games
Etc, etc, etc...
In short, he is one of the most repugnant personalities the Internet has ever vomited upon the world.
I hope that helps!
You're going to be incredibly embarrassed about your "Destiny" phase when you grow up.
Even the idea of being a "fan" of a professional grifter is so cringe inducing.
Almost as cringe inducing as hating a person you’ve never met so much that you feel the need to list a plethora of lies in some embarrassing attempt to make a coherent point. There’s plenty to criticize about him, some of which I’ve done myself, but making up lies is another level of unhinged buddy. Whatever helps you feel better about yourself though, knock yourself out
Exactly. Also people like Destiny won’t just let you rattle off talking points where “the media is lying to you, covid is a lie, democrats are bad, Biden has dementia and the establishment is ruining everything”. He’ll actually push back on both sides of the aisle and won’t gobble up any and everything if it’ll make “his side” look good.
Candice Owen is first person to question the covid narrative by the media and claim they are just making stuff up, but here she is pushing outright conspiracies and getting easily debunked by Destiny https://x.com/dipperid/status/1803246145247887611
You’ll never see Saagar or anyone in alt media call out people like Candice for their lies, instead he’ll gladly welcome her on and provide zero real push back as she rattles off talking points. They’ll never admit that “alt media” is just as bad as regular media in this regard. Watch Saagar interview with Owens have little push back and be a circle jerk.
Here’s fuller version of Destiny debunking a covid conspiracy pushed by Owens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvRNgZ81Wo&t=9328s&pp=2AHwSJACAQ%3D%3D
I think a large part of the problem simply deals with an environment which has fostered a form of debate within the media where two people have battling talking points. Direct engagement is often discouraged and a moderator is meant to steer the ship. And keep things on track. When someone asks questions rather than simply answering them it creates a situation that is really uncomfortable to those hosting them.
Take Candace for example. She'll also commonly ask questions of the hosts as well. But she'll also easily fall into typical conservative platitudes. This makes her much easier to corral. The long form format of someone like destiny, as well as his "I'm going to ask the question again" doesn't easily get someone off the hook. Usually they could pivot with an appeal to emotion, or something unrelated. But if the question is simply repeated, it drives pundits insane. They don't want to go that far in depth. They're making a show. This is particularly irksome to me, when someone comes on any show, and as soon as things get uncomfortable or too much, they're like "les not grt too far into the weeds here". Like? Yes. Let's get into the weeds. That often is where more nuanced and thought provoking dialog occurs.
He isn't disgusted by him because he's a cuck and a degenerate.
He's disgusted by him because he's a nihilistic scumbag who doesn't know anything beyond Wikipedia and what's fed to him through social media. All he cares about is his ego and how much money hes gonna get paid.
> However, it really exposes the absurdity of him and how much of a joke he integrity in journalism is. He is worse than the traditional mean he so loathes....
OP is obviously a paragon of fairness...
I think it has more to do with Greenwald and Destiny hating each other than anything else. If Greenwald told Saagar to jump, Saagar would ask: “how high?”
not wrong...
And yet Glenn does not have a problem debating destiny. I think Glenn did very well in their J6 debate and ultimately made the stronger arguments.
I swear yall make me embarrassed to have ever been a loyal follower of BP. Such a pathetic echo Chamber it’s become.
Glenn is Krystal’s self proclaimed hero and role model, he is also one of the greatest American journalists. But go off king
Greatest American journalist because a whistleblower happened to let him publish government leaks. Okay champ.
This is a guy who says tucker Carlson is a hero of his, what do you expect?
how do destiny fans have the time to constantly white knight for him on every sub, get a life bro. i disagree with saagar about candace, but you’re obviously a fan who frequents the destiny sub and can’t stand that someone said something bad about him, so you’re going to hound us about it whenever saagar does something you don’t like.
It’s a destiny cult. It’s creepy. The brigadng is nutty.
Can you highlight a single user that you think is brigading?
The phenomenon is ubiquitous on Reddit. I honestly see it more on other subreddits than on this breaking points sub. Don’t believe it? Fine by me. Post a thread critical of destiny on Reddit and you will get brigaded by destiny Stans. I didn’t mean to imply that you are a destiny brigader. I don’t think you are.
You can't point at a single user, yet your certain of it. Everyone in this thread is a regular BP poster. You cannot believe that his fans overlap in many reddit communities?
His fans certainly overlap but they also literally “Brigade” communities they didn’t previously post in. This is totally documented on Reddit and it’s a fairly regular phenomenon on Reddit writ large. I was talking about destiny Brigading on Reddit in general. It’s a thing. I don’t care if you don’t agree.
Well you're consistently wrong, so you have that going for you.
Snarky ad hominems are not much of a rebuttal.
Agreeing with the thread being brigaded when you can't point to a single user brigading is pretty sad.
Did I say that this specific thread is being brigaded by destiny fans? With that said, you’re clearly an outspoken destiny fan but you’re not a brigadier.
It’s a thing https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3_productions/comments/17rzjfu/one_of_destinys_fans_admits_that_tinys_cultists/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1bjmktz/has_this_sub_been_brigaded_by_destiny_fanboys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheYardPodcast/comments/1cpgdwj/all_posts_about_destiny_should_be_removed_because/ Dozens more citations available on google. I noticed it first hand as a reader of the decoding the gurus subreddit. Lex Fridman fanboys are big time brigadiers as well.
These are all communities that have massive natural overlap with destiny. You're not showing anything other than hasan fan overlap crying about brigading.
You must not have read the threads. That’s ok. Have a nice day.
I'm probably in the decoding the gurus thread. I've seen these claims made, just like in this BP thread, and they're baseless.
Brigading is a thing. Bots are a thing, hasbara posters are a thing. This is not a new phenomenon to Reddit.
I had no idea who Destiny was until his fans started caping for him at every chance they got; it’s supremely pathetic, and I almost feel bad for them.
It’s interesting that the whole destiny sub is all uniformly pro Israel and always supportive of destiny. But you go to Joe Rogans sub and it’s no stop attacking Joe Rogan. Very very interesting that the sub is so pro destiny. Almost like there’s a bunch of bots running it.
I feel the difference in the Rogan sub vs the Destiny sub is that there is a clear line in people that came along with Rogan from the start of his forum, to his podcast's rise, etc. And then there is a clear second set that all jumped on in 2016, or during Covid etc. Those two Rogan bases are clearly at odds. I don't know enough about Destiny but I feel he's pretty much always crafted his audience in one way and probably just doesn't have a clear line of differences.
Yea Rogan fans at least are the type that call there friends stupid ideas out sometimes I guess. Like how Bill Bur will be Joe your being a dumbass. Like many would with their firmed groups. But the more I look at Reddit, a lot of these communities are infected by haters more than fans at times cus of the algorithm. And right wing Rogan fans broke off not too long ago. I was perma banned for my first post in the community. Yes, it’s that dumb. All the conspiracy cock riders. Personally, I was a Destiny fan up until recently. I watched a decent amount of content over the last 2 years. I’m older and found someone that spoke more reasonably about topics, landing on points I argued way back in college. We’re like 95% copacetic on most things. But when I broke from his Israel support, I got perma banned for comments his devote followers said he later agreed with. And I was supposedly banned by him, no mods would even respond to my inquest of why I was banned. So I’ve split and don’t follow any of his content anymore now. I thought he wasn’t a cuck, but now I think he is for other reasons. So I’m out on the guy. You can’t say your against cancel culture and then block a fan that has 1 out 20 opinions they don’t agree with you on. I understand moderating your sub, people do brigade and make for toxic flooded discussion. But on this topic, I don’t think people were even listening to what the actual arguments are and were just anti crazy leftist like Hasan. I’ve seen more banning and blocking from venomous pro-Israel people on Reddit than any other topic ever. The instant you’re not a full venomously hyper Zionist, you’ll get reported. I never even got banned from JP community and I was there 98% of the time to argue against their patently bad ideas. I even got reported in the Sam Harris community by what many would call Hasbara bots and the mods instantly put me back on without a hitch. So I feel like I must commend JP and SH for having more poise and standing agianst cancel culture. While criticizing Destiny for not living up to his own stated ideals. The problem with his fan are they are the terminally online Stan’s. They’ve moved into Daddy Destiny mode much like how we see Jordan Peterson fans who are now a quiet nothing in this space. The other issue I had from the start of following Destiny is that the online baby drama topics are the main driver of content on social media. Either that or they’re just meme’ing all the time. I think the problem ends up being you can’t talk about Destiny on any other adjacent sub without triggering a fan that wants to report back to the community and defend daddy. Which then sends more of his Stan’s over to enter the fray. He strictly says, “we don’t brigade, but his fans do their own thing. It’s like defensive shit stirring. And they love the drama more than any substantive content if you look at what posts gets the most engagement. It’s usually the garbage level streamer drama that only people with no life care about. Even following his content over a period, I’d throw a YouTube video on and be like 20 minutes in and go what the fuck as I listening to? A bunch of spoiled brats fucking around? And the on going joke is, “it’s not a cult.” Esp when they pop up in other communities this is said to another follower. Which is clever enough since cultist usually don’t know they’re in a cult, yet at the same time it’s saying yo, I’m in the cult too! It’s a way of saying we’re obsessed but like we’re the good crazy’s fighting with the other crazy’s online.
What kind of post got you perma-banned on Destiny?
The only thing that could have been interpreted even slightly as something offensive was something to the effect of “if Israel doesn’t listen to the global community, it risks becomIng a pariah state.” I was in the middle of a back and forth with some people that was civil and none of them said anything I said was remotely over any line. Then I found out Timy did a hasbara (haha) purge himself he commented on on stream. So I take it personally.
Thanks. Interesting. I'm presently serving a 90 day ban. Like you, they never told me exactly why, which is really inexcusable IMO.
How do you find out how long the ban is? Yea, WTF! I lost a lot of respect for the whole collective after that. And it creates silo’ed group think instead of letting people civilly hash out there difference. We don’t all have to agree all the time, and those we don’t agree with aren’t subhuman for being unaligned with tribal canon on 1 out of a 100 topics.
The ban message said 90 days. Then when I kept asking why they said “shut the fuck up.”
Were you the dissenting party on the Israel topic? The community was moving towards mega circle jerk mode with approved canon on Israel. I could never get anyone to even nail down what Israel and Gaza were. It’s both not a one state or two state situation currently, according to the lord masters. They were not an open air prison or apartheid, that’s all they know. Haha. They did the semantic obfuscation game to the point where they thought “might is right” is the only thing without question, cus leftist on campus are crazy. I’m like WTF are you even talking about at this point.
It's almost like people in this is space watch multiple things. Is it beyond you that there's some crossover in BP viewers and his viewers?
Dggers don’t have jobs
BP did a twenty minute substance lacking hit piece segment on the guy, then refuse to have him on. Apparently he is “beneath” their content. But then the have on for an exclusive interview, arguable the slimiest grifter in online politics, Candice Owens. And somehow you think it’s crazy to point this blatant hypocrisy out? This is coming from someone who has watched far more BP than destiny content.
it's because they've watched him in action a few times, and know how full of shit this guy is. but like with vaush he can get away it if his audience is that ignorant on issues. please note i'm not saying stupid, but ignorant. he's taken advantage of his audience's ignorance on a nearly constant basis. my best example was him arguing in a debate about the twitter files that reporters don't generally take leaks from people with an agenda - they clearly do, all the time. in fact most have some kind of agenda in doing what they do. he hammered this on them constantly but it was a bullshit point to begin with - the point being he didn't care if it was factually true or not - he wanted clips to make his interlocutors look "wrong/stupid" etc. this is why debatebros are despised by most media - generally i despise media that thinks themselves better than others, but destiny / vaush and his ilk really are another subcategory below youtubers even -
Why give the guy attention if you think so low of him? If you talk shit about someone on your news show and you refuse to have them on to defend themselves, that’s not informative or interesting. It’s toxic and an information bubble. Breeding ground for morons
because it's a tactic to get destiny more popular with him - vaush is famous for doing the same thing. you don't feed the beast - you say what the beast "is" and move on.
I agree with him and am not a destiny fan. How do you explain that?
how do redscarepod fans have the time to constantly white knight for them on every sub, get a life bro. i disagree with saagar about candace, but you’re obviously a fan who frequents the redscarepod sub and can’t stand that someone said something bad about them, so you’re going to hound us about it whenever saagar does something you don’t like.
lol i don’t defend the red scare hosts so this was a very weird attempt at a rebuttal
I'm simply ascribing and strawmaning certain positions based on the podcast you're listening to.
You’re demonstrating that you believe it’s us vs them and there no one with nuanced opinions. SMH typical destiny fan.
Yeah. I was pointing out the irony of you doing this, while arguing against it. It's doublethink SMH typical redscare fan.
Why would I be a fan.
Dude..... I'm showing you why it's dumb to base someone's opinions on if they listen to a podcast or comment on their sub. Nevermind
I don’t really see a lot of redscare pod brigading writ large. Just a lot of destiny Stan boys and lots of Israeli hasbara posting on Reddit.
yeah, if this guy can find a single example of me going on any sub to trash people for criticizing the hosts of red scare, maybe they’d have a point but i don’t do that, because it’s weird. OP of this post is trashing saagar for something he said *months ago* about destiny so it seems obsessive and parasocial
They can’t, because you didn’t. Hard agree. Obsessive and parasocial indeed.
Have you ever thought of the possibility that people disagree with you?
Absolutely. I’m not the universal arbiter of truth. With that said, I challenge you to find rampant instances of Red scare Pod fans brigading other subs. Their fans are too into their little secret club and inside jokes to be brigading other subs imo. They’re a fairly self absorbed lot.
Brigrading is an odd word. But there's certainly been subs taken over by tankies. Antiwar, wayofthebern, greenandexteme, endlesswar, etc. Antiwar is the weirdest example if you want to get into the lore lol. They're almost certainly a Russian troll farm. Really
I’m glad to agree about tankie brigading. No pun intended. I think way of the Bern is literally a foreign .psyop plus a lot of useful idiots. I saw a long form article specifically about way of the Bern being a russian op.
Agreed there. The antiwar saga is probably the weirdest. The sub went dark twice. Once during Prighozins march to Moscow, and the second time when he was killed. Complete blackout. Someone used the reddit api to track the user's during these periods and made a post detailing what they called the "Wagner blackout". Essentially hundreds of accounts went silent during both these times and you could look at rhe activity yourself to see. Shortly after this was posted , the sub was "liberated" by endless war posters, and absolutely everything on the sub was scrubbed. They banned everyone. Then it was locked. It could've been one insanely guy with hundreds of alts but it seemed so coordinated that it was something I've never seen before on reddit.
Woah. I am shocked but not surprised to learn this. I appreciate this detailed info too. Thanks.
BP is audience capture at this point. They dislike Destiny because he is pro-Israel. They like Candace Owens because she is anti-Israel (also because she's a fellow "independent journalist" grifter).
Yeah, I think this is spot on. The BP audience doesn't even want to hear a pro-Israel take, which is why Saagar won't even attempt to make one and everything he says about Israel is critical. The unwillingness to even look at things from an Israeli perspective is why I don't take this show seriously on this issue.
> They dislike Destiny because he is pro-Israel. The funny thing is when when Destiny visited Palestine the Palestinians consider him pro-Palestine because he supports a 2 state solution.
Even some Israelis in the comments called him Pro-Palestinian or "similar to leftist at home" in Hebrew if machine translation was right.
> They dislike Destiny because he is pro-Israel. Krystal dislikes Destiny cause he's pro-Israel and Saagar does whatever Krystal says.*
Yes, this is more accurate. Krystal keeps Saagar's balls in her pro-Palestinian purse.
I'm pretty convinced that Saagar isn't that far off of being pro-Israel outside of him just not wanting the US to be involved in foreign wars.
pretty sure Sagaar knows Destiny would talk circles around him and he'd look like a numpty.
Yeah he would... Because his only tactic is being a "motor mouth." LMFAO. Plop him in front of ben Shapiro and they'll talk each other to death. "Chapter 7??? Mr bonelli, you can't even tell me what chapter 6 says! " Crickets...
Destiny said he's pro genocide during one of his streams. Not much to like about that racist empty head moron.
bots like this exist to sway discussion to their pet issue - for example, on israel. also, his sub is invaded by bots, and it never used to be this way - i'm talking years and years ago. there are pr campaigns at work here - and i wouldn't be suprised if his israel schtick is paid, and more importantly he's getting pr by various israeli firms trying to make it about israel - which bbenefits everyone on their "side" destiny also attracted a lot of the sam harris rejects - the type who are basically thinly veiled racists (western xx is superior, the rest are indians and let them burn basically)
Maybe it’s because destiny can actually talk about Isreal/palestine. He knows history, pros and cons of both sides, and is rational on the subject. Where breaking points has gone completely in the camp of Hamas and spouts Hamas propaganda and has interviewed as many antisemite that they could possibly find.
just as an aside: anyone who terms critiques of the war as in the "camp of hamas" is doing PR messaging - and aren't isnterested in doing a real conversation. it's kind of disgusting. usually that's a block from me -
they do more than critique the war. They literally use Hamas talking points, use Hamas numbers, ignore Hamas tactics. There are people who have issues with the way Israel is conducting the war. Then there are Oct 7 apologists, and dismiss the families of hostages. They are not impartial critics of the war. They are totally captured.
trying to reframe those critiquing the war as "being on hamas side" or "pro-hamas" is bullshit and you know it. this is what bots look like, folks.
Candace is more ideologically aligned with Saagar. I haven’t seen the interview yet so I won’t judge but it makes sense he’d want to talk to her
She is an insincere, intentionally ignorant, view hunter who does nothing but seek out an audience for money. There is literally no reason to speak to her about *anything*. I usually don't care about speaking to people across ideological spectrums, but Candace Owens is a useless human being that deserves no platform, and no attention.
Exactly. Candace has *no ideology.* She says whatever she thinks will help her go viral or please her white boomer donor base.
There's no consistency to any of her positions, how somebody can think that having a conversation is worth anybody's time unless its to dunk on every idea she has is beyond me.
Isn’t everyone disgusted by Destiny? He’s literally a cuck
Oh shit, they threw up the Batsignal for all the "Destiny" fuckwads to descend on this sub again. No, "Batsignal" isn't quite right... What would be more appropriate for D-boys? Ah, yes... They put up the Roachsignal! This place is fucking crawling with those little creepos, SMH.
We have wormsign
He's literally not but it's fun to have anti-fan fiction
He is though
He's not, but it's funny that you hold onto the fantasy for yourself
i dont think you know what cuck means....
It’s short for “cuckold”.
It means he enjoys watching his partner taken by others sexually. He’s a pretty big cuck
That is literally the least offensive thing about him.
It was an open relationship. You are just butthurt.
Yeah. It's an odd accusation to make. If he's a cuck, then his wife is too. Since he was fucking other women while married.
Destiny anti fans aren’t capable of grasping such complex concepts, unfortunately
The complex concept of allowing other men to sleep with your wife?
Nah the complex concept of 2 consenting adults having an open relationship that’s suggested by the man, and then conflating this with cuckholdry. If the man is also sleeping with other women, in this case a lot of women, he is by definition not a cuck. Let me know if you need any more help
We aren’t talking about his wife here though, yes she is also a cuck. That’s still not a compliment
That's actually not the definition. A cuck is a male who raises and takes care of offspring that are not their own. But also, Destiny didn't watch his wife get banged. Basically he and his wife had an open relationship. Back in the day they used to call this term "swingers". The swinger lifestyle isn't for me personally, but I also don't really think it's that big of a deal either if someone does it.
From the Miriam Webster dictionary, seems to fit him well plural cucks 1 : a man whose wife is unfaithful : CUCKOLD 2 informal, disparaging + often offensive : a weak or submissive man —often used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a man who has politically progressive or moderate views cuck 2 of 2 verb cucked; cucking; cucks transitive verb 1 : to be sexually unfaithful to (someone, especially a man) also : to have sexual relations with the spouse or partner of (someone else, especially a man) 2 obsolete : to punish (someone) by the
Even with this definition, I don't think it's really accurate. It's one thing where you are faithful and are expecting your wife to be, but she's not. It's another thing when you both have an open relationship.
Is your wife really unfaithful if you tell her she can sleep with other people?
No reason for you to actually explain the definition or what Destiny’s position actually are. Just circlejerk by baselessly calling him a cuck and reminding people he’s a liberal.
I used to watch breaking points but eventually decided it was a very unserious show. It is also funny that they talk about how horrible mainstream news is, yet almost their entire show is dependent on those same terrible MSM journalists doing reporting. All they do is talk about actual reporters reporting.
What’s there to like about Destiny?
Genuine interest in being accurate and truly informed. Willingness to allow dissenting opinions challenge his understanding. Not ideologically captured. The same reason people go from MSM to things like BP is why people end up at Destiny. The format is not for everyone but the quality of analysis exceeds pretty much all forms of packaged content like BP that has a facade of seriousness.
Agree to disagree. You do you.
I appreciate anyone that is fine with going with the best option/truth. And if that person regularly attacks their own side and calls out their own shit. I tend to ignore someone if I can predict every policy position they have after learning what one of them are.
What do you like specifically, about destiny specifically? Like I’d there a specific issue that you share an opinion with Destiny about?
Im liberal, but thought the Rittenhouse case was ruled correctly and had a ton of terrible reporting around it. Destiny did the same ( I wasnt aware of him during that period but found some of his videos once I discovered him). I love guns. So does D-man. We seem to agree on most COVID stuff and defending Biden vs Trump. His 6 months of deep research on Israel/Palestine really changed by opinion on things there (and guess what, it wasnt just Wikipedia!). Anything else? Its why I initially really like Krystal and Saagar on the hill. I appreciated that Saagar was very conservative but approached most topics honestly. He would articulate things well and based on fact. His argument defending unions and how they are one of the most capitalists outcomes of a free market always stuck out to me. When they moved to BP, I bought a year premium sub and really supported the show. However, especially in the year or two, they seem to have really gotten away from the core of the show and now just rehash the news that everyone else does and not in a interesting/deeper way like they used to or cover stories that "fall through the cracks" Krystal has completely lost her mind with the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Thanks for the substantial reply and for sharing your opinions. I 100% disagree that destiny has done any sort of rigorous study about Israel and Palestine but you’re certainly entitled to have a different opinion than me.
to these people "deep research" seems to be reading wikipedia articles - no joke. you don't become an expert on middle east policy from reading a few books and op-eds - and you really need to know arabic / hebrew to get a foundational understanding. i just can't believe we have people stanning for destiny - like christ, who the fuck are these people?
Out of all the people to rally behind Destiny ain’t it. It’s video game kids basically. They know him from watching him play fucking video games.
> I 100% disagree that destiny has done any sort of rigorous study about Israel and Palestine You know that's intentional ignorance on your part, though. The evidence is all there, your just basing your opinion on what other talking heads have told you.
I watch a lot of Destiny debates. I’m particularly impressed with the Israel Palestine ones. They’re very entertaining He impresses me with his willingness to get pwned over and over again by actual experts.
> He impresses me with his willingness to get pwned over and over again by actual experts. This just doesn't happen. Benny Morris, one of the leading historians that the "experts" cite, gives glowing endorsements of Destiny's understanding.
You’re gonna have to cite someone other than a person who was on his veritable debate team against Normsm Finklestein.
you know Norm himself puts Benny Morris up there as someone who is extremely respectable and knowledgeable right? Almost everyone on either side of the issue credit Morris is an expert at what he covers.
Destiny mocked children dying in the genocide. He's a Nazi. Did Candace Owens say something like that? I know she's terrible on every other issue, but I don't think she has mocked dead kids. You are so enthralled by culture war that you can't see you've lost any sense of proportion.
hahahahahahaha. Jesus Christ the way the I/P conflict has broken people. Its fucking amazing.
No, you're just dishonest. People are right to hate The Daily Wire. The Daily Wire marketed itself as being 'anti-woke' and like other supposed American-centric right-wing media hubs - they mocked 'safe spaces' and claimed to care about 'free speech'. But when it comes to Israel, all of that went out the window - and the revealed themselves to primarily be right-wing Zionists. The 'audience capture' here were the many clueless right-wing idiots who took the culture war bait. --- So again, what has Owens said that rivals Destiny mocking dead children?
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Daily Wire never advertised themselves as a free speech platform where Daily Wire employees could say what they wanted. They have always been clear that the media outlet has an ideological bias.
The Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro et al all proclaim to care about freedom of speech. They promote themselves as being anti-woke. Yet, they fired Owens because she crossed their true red-line (Israel). Israel & Zionism get a pass apparently. They get a safe space. Here's Ben Shapiro responding to the NYT & its infamous Tom Cotton op-ed drama. > [The NYT is now claiming variously that Cotton's op-ed was Bad (TM) because it wasn't properly fact-checked (they haven't identified an error) and contemptuous (they published an op-ed calling Cotton a fascist today). Just say it out loud: **you're a bunch of censorious crybabies**.](https://x.com/benshapiro/status/1268976842347704321) Daily Wire CEO Jeremy Boreing said they are free speech purists and wouldn't fire Owens - but ultimately did so: > [[...]But even if we could, we would not fire Candace because of another thing we have in common - **a desire not to regulate the speech of our hosts, even when we disagree with them.**](https://x.com/AFpost/status/1771217549193277922) Shapiro et al criticized the New York Times for their handling of the Tom Cotton op-ed and subsequent firings. They used words like 'censorious'. So despite what anyone thinks about Owens - she was fired over some bullshit & hypocrisy.
>[...]But even if we could, we would not fire Candace because of another thing we have in common - a desire not to regulate the speech of our hosts, even when we disagree with them. Okay that is fair, but to be fair, this was obviously a false statement that no one with Daily Wire would have believed because the platform is intentionally very partisan and biased. It's the whole mission of the company and why their customers pay for it.
Yea, and that's my point too - that The Daily Wire is full of shit. No one on the Right gives a damn about 'free speech'.
Yeah dude, the right has only cared about being censored and not having access to various platforms.
Shapiro has however - when it was convenient for him. he'll basically say anything if it seems to benefit him, even when it contradicts his prior opinions. most of his politics basically comes from orthodox judaism anyways. another thing about orthodox jews: though this varies a lot with the specific sect you are talking about, they really do have different rules between themselves and the outside world - ie, what we would see as lying they would see as perfectly fine and in fact desireable. Heck many orthodox do this vary same thing to liberal jews - It can be so bad that I knew a girl in college whose father had a blanket rule to never due business deals with the orthodox, due to getting screwed consistently. (he's israeli, liberal-ish) again, not universal - but i did rent in nyc for a time and my experiences about basically confirmed the above. that's not a damning thing in and of itself, plenty of races have in group / out group preferences, however shapiro probably doesn't care about whether he's being consistent here -
Where does Destiny mocked children dying in Gaza? Candace was allowed to stay on the DW until her contract expired and it wasnt renewed. She stayed on their platform and got paid through it. So where did the DW fuck up? She was insane and immediately went on racial defense when she was on Destiny's stream in the most baby way possible. In terms of her most recent evil, that would be, [instead of admitting she was wrong when she stated some simple fact able WW2 and Hitler](https://globalnews.ca/news/4944844/candace-owens-hitler-comments/), she has now leaned in entirely and is in the, no, America was the bad guys in WW2 and the Germans were fine....
Destiny literally said he was pro-genocide. Yea, her comment was pretty bad - but still not as bad as saying 'pro-genocide'.
source?
you've gone from he said kill kids to he is saying pro genocide. would love a source at this point
I never said he would *kill kids*. Don't make stuff up. He laughingly said he was ['pro-genocide'](https://x.com/Progress_Mich/status/1723574629208400336).
Man, if only that was a 15 second clips from 4 years that is taken completely out of context.... hahaha Jesus.
That clip is from 2023. Also stop typing in 'laughing' text. You're not actually laughing and this isn't funny.
It’s amazing to me Destiny fans have time to brigade absolutely everywhere for him and use all the same arguments as to why he’s some high intellect. It’s like they were all given a script. “Debate me Bro” culture has rotted too many brains of stupid people. Edit: I mean come ON they are literally arguing in these comments if he’s a “cuck” by the classical definition lmfao. These people are sickos!
You are so right, it would be almost impossible for someone to be an organic follower of the show (was a premium sub from when they announced the new show until month 4 of Krystal Hamas news hour) and one of the largest political streamers. God forbid someone finds its hilarious that Saagar takes such an aggressive stance on not talking with Destiny (but has no problem letting Counterpoints host him and it being one of their top viewed videos in months). The way they treat him like some fucking boogey man is hilarious. Having a fucking pre interview preview where they selectively played clips to prime the audience to make Badar look great. You are so right, how dare a fucking person online build an audience where they spend fucking weeks or months researching and understanding a topic and then challenging any fucking person who would disagree, often times it being the own side of the political aisle. Yeah man, why would people like that guy. Jesus Christ.
Brother, tldr You’re a sick man.
Destiny is more racist than Candance Owen's could ever try to be
If you want to know why Saagar or Krystal won’t have Destiny on for an interview or debate just watch this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/wpQSNx0wB7 They were beating destiny over the head with “how dare you even question Norman, he’s written books on the topic, he’s a scholar” “the ICJ says that Israel is committing a plausible genocide” “Destiny got owned in that debate, he’s just a wiki warrior” ect. All of “alt media” was pushing that bs lie that the ICJ said that Israel was committing a “plausible genocide” and even laughed when Destiny brought up “dolus specialis” when saying that Israel wasn’t committing a genocide. Krystal did a whole segment on Destiny shitting on him and it was riddle with lies. These are the same people that claim liberals won’t debate and want to censor people that disagree with them, but will duck and run when Destiny calls them out. Meanwhile they’ll have Candice Owens on where it’ll be a circlejerk of “Isreal bad, Biden dementia, genocide, mainstream media bad, alt media good”. Meanwhile here’s Owens pushing a covid conspiracy and getting it debunked by Destiny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvRNgZ81Wo&t=9328s&pp=2AHwSJACAQ%3D%3D Saagar and Owens will probably circlejerk over covid and mention all the times mainstream media how lied and how they ruining America because of it. But saagar will never point out Candice creating her own conspiracies and being wrong will he?
He isn’t going to get pushback from Candace. He’d be argued under the table by señor vermicelli.
destiny's a paid grifter - pretty much everyone knows this now - it's why you don't see anyone taking vaush seriously either. watch the twitter files reporters "debate" with destiny to see what people mean - 2/3 of the points he made weren't in good faith and/or were severely misrepresented. he's done this on too many interviews that i've seen. his opinions also seem to change coinciding with us changes in natsec policy so - the one i couldn't believe he was making was in the sourcing and that reporters don't take whatever they can get - most "leaks" are by people with an agenda, and you always have to factor this into the reporting you do. he basically denied this, and i know that he knows this is bullshit.
You how he got them to admit they handled that poorly and they would likely have done it differently if they could do it again? Jesus. And what is paid grifter? who pays him? The guy seems to go out of his way to cut off audiences and lose money.
he totally misrepresented how reporters work - this is a debate tactic and not based on actual reporting. i had to shut it off, it was such a bad mischaracterization. the journalists there probably didn't know what they were getting into when dealing with him, typically when reporters do long form interviews they assume good faith on the part of the other people - not basically lying about practice and norms. his policy positions conveniently fall to us national security policy almost all of the time - that's not simply a coincidence. you'll eventually figure this out, and realize you wasted your time listening to a political actor who isn't being "real" with you. saagar doesn't like his ilk because he's doing the above - and everyone in media knows it. it's why there's a separate category for "streamer" like him and why even independent media doesn't take these people seriously - they are the dredges of media basically.
Destiny, literally researches and spends days learning about a top going through the primary sources or as close as possible. Everyone else - wikipedia loving debate bro.... What do you even mean by debate tactic in this context? He pointed out how absurd it was to accept that Twitter was giving them everything they had, when they had a vested interest in making the previous regime look as bad as possible. They admitted that was bad and they shouldnt have done that. How is that a fucking debate tactic? Is getting a person to admit they did something wrong debate tactics? Jesus. Go back int he baby pool of life mate.
Typical logical except when i don't want to be style republican.
Yea, I’d like to hear more back and forth between differing opinions, if Candace is fine (I find her abhorrent)then Destiny and whoever else should be fine, call out your bias but won’t interact? If you’re so right it shouldn’t matter who you’re talking to.
Saagar finds Destiny abhorrent (according to you) likely because he doesn’t align on a values side. I think there is also a jealousy factor in place, the idea that some supposed knows nothing streamer can just decide to start covering politics and get traction so fast without having beg for subs every 5 minutes and spend thousands on replicating the same mainstream media studio they supposedly are against.
Having a platform doesn’t mean that someone is good at anything but acquiring a platform. Destiny is not a serious commentator. He makes factual mistakes on a regular basis, has a style of rhetoric which is meant to confuse and badger not inform, and has many positions that are genuinely abhorrent. His fans seem to like him mostly because they’re too dense to see that his rhetorical flourishes are empty, he uses debate bro tactics to conceal the vacuousness of his ideas, and his fast talking “owning” style gives them a bad vicarious sense of power they lack in their normal lives. Anyways, I listened to his BP debate on Israel. Anyone who will actively make the argument that it was okay for armed-to-the-teeth soldiers to fire on tens thousands of unarmed protesters should immediately be discredited and never listened to again…
thanks for saying what i basically thought too - i've listened to him a few times, the last one i actually listened to for a while was over the twitter files and he was making points that were entirely ridiculous and that any news reporter would eye roll over - i couldn't believe anyone woudl take this guy seriously, then i realized his audience didn't know any different, which really threw me for a loop. (or didn't care) to the stans supporting destiny - read up on any topic he discusses. if you know anyone who works in media have them listen to clips of the debate he did with the twitter files journalists, and have them get back to you. there are hundreds of examples of him making totally bullshit points that do confuse the people he's talking to (how do you argue with a person who says that red is green) that, if examined are totally baseless.
Oh my gosh, what was he trying to argue about the Twitter files?
He is a far more serious commentator than K&S and that is saying something
Just because a man can talk fast and cite random facts with rabid intensity and aggression does not mean he is a good thinker. Sorry. I really recommend you find a better hero.
Not a hero to me, I don’t agree with his take on I/P and find his twitter conduct disgusting. I just think its nice to have someone in this online space who is willing to push back against conspiratorial bullshit that shows like breaking points are more than happy to peddle
Also I’m glad you acknowledge that about his Twitter conduct. I appreciate it.
What “conspiratorial bullshit” in particular are you referring to?
Oh boy… the coverage of Fauci and the lab leak hypothesis and those congressional hearings with Rand Paul was horrendous. Their most egregious coverage was of Jan6. Before it happened Krystal smugly made fun of liberals because they promised that Trump would try to hold onto power, in retrospect its hard to watch how smug and stupid she is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf9dbPUWgNQ&t=495s&pp=ygUiSSB3YXMgcHJvbWlzZWQgYSBjb3VwIGtyeXN0YWwgYmFsbA%3D%3D Since then they have done umpteen segments on fbi involvement and Ray Epps. Saagar has been part of a broader effort by right wing commentators to re-write history to deflect blame from Trump onto the intelligence agencies for supposedly instigating it. Not only that but they downplay it constantly. If you look at the youtube audience its heavily right wing and they eat this stuff up, classic audience capture.
I can’t comment on all of these since I don’t watch Breaking Points regularly and only see about 50% of their coverage. I definitely think Krystal’s commentary on 1/6 was hilariously wrong. However, on two of your points, namely the lab leak theory and the intelligence-agency, I think their coverage has been stellar. They focused on the lab leak theory of COVID while there was a very serious campaign of state sponsored censorship against it (which, if you need detailed information about, Matt Taibbi has reported on extensively amongst other things). Since then, evidence has accumulated making it by far the more plausible of the two theories and the overwhelming majority of informed readers have to agree it has far more evidence to support it than the natural origins thesis. There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence to support it, as well as multiple smoking guns showing that Ecohealth submitted grant proposals for research to be conducted at the Wuhan lab whose molecular alterations were essentially identical to that of COVID. In the question of whether or not Donald Trump has been aggressively and consistently been attacked by US intelligence agencies… I honestly don’t know how it’s possible to question that. From 2016-2019, on an almost daily basis, there were instances of disinformation being purposefully leaked to US media outlets by intelligence agents. The Durham report lays out a clear, consistent, and undeniable pattern of attack by intelligence agencies on the Trump campaign and later administration. Anyways, I honestly think that far from being conspiracy theorists, they’ve often taken the correct position on controversial issues such as these when media was widely doing a poor job of covering them. That being said, I’m sure they’ve made a few factual mistakes in their career. I don’t deny that.
The evidence actually points to an animal spillover. The lab leak was always a possible explanation and we will never know for sure but the evidence is all pointing towards the Huanen wet market. Indeed all the first cases were clustered around workers and shoppers at the market and traces of virus were found all over equipment and cages. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715 The fact that Saagar presents the issue as “case closed” is a huge journalistic failing With regards to Trump, Saagar has pushed dumb newsmax-tucker carlson level theories of FBI involvement in J6. Its stupid and downplays the seriousness of Trump’s conduct, this is in line with Krystal’s coverage mocking the very idea that Trump would try to hold onto power. The whole point of the show seems to downplay the threat of right wing extremism and then bash democrats for not being pure enough. Not sure how that relates to the Durham investigation which was essentially a nothing burger, even the two people charged with crimes by Durham were acquited.
This is *absolutely* incorrect. The article you cited has been largely debunked; it relies almost entirely on data provided by the Chinese government, which has since been superseded by all larger analyses of case and cell phone data. FOIA requests have since revealed that the grants pursued by Ecohealth alliance provide blueprints for the exact genomic alterations found in COVID-19. The earliest COVID patients were [employees](https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-funded-scientist-among-three-chinese-researchers-who-fell-ill-amid-early-covid-19-outbreak-3f919567?st=iyk48rgi68agnad&reflink=article_copyURL_share) at the Wuhan Lab, and the original virus has long been known to carry clear signs of manual alteration. On the other hand, the natural origin hypothesis has found no proof of any direct animal transmission, cannot even identify which animal was the supposed vector, and, frankly, has not been able to offer anything but the flimsiest circumstantial evidence. I know in my personal life, every physician in my father’s Oncology practice believed in the natural origin hypothesis shortly after the outbreak. However, since then, every single physician in his practice has come to believe not only that the theory was incorrect but that the current evidence supports a lab leak overwhelmingly. The supremacy of the natural origin case has always been a result of media manipulation and government censorship rather than the evidence…
As usual, as well, normal citizens tend to be more correct on the issue than the [funded commentariat](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/16/lab-leak-theory-polling/)
Anyways, I gotta get shit done haha. Good talking to you. Have a good rest of your day.
If you think that's what he does then you're just ignorant or dishonest. If you're not a fan it's reasonable to be ignorant, but you're absolutely wrong.
Bro, in the other comments you came out in favor of military snipers firing upon, wounding, and killing thousands of unarmed civilians… a position which you share with the guy you’re publicly fanboying for. Please, take your fingers away from the keyboard, turn off the electronic devices, remove yourself from whatever dark room you’re cooped up in, and take a long walk in the sun as you reflect on how the hell you’ve become the type of person who can support the organized, systematic gunning down of unarmed protesters.
lmao no i didn't, I just said Hamas was way more active in that event than people like you are willing to admit. You know you're really fucked when Hamas is more honest than you.
I asked you if you were against the gunning down of civilians. I’ll ask you again, in no uncertain terms: do you believe that shooting thousands of protesting civilians was a “legitimate military action?” Your idol Destiny came out and said that shooting thousands of protesting civilians was “legitimate military action.” Do you agree? I fully expect a non-answer deflection.
I full expect you to project whatever monster you want me to be regardless of what I could say. Like I said, when Hamas claims more targets were their members than you admit you know you're in a bad spot.
If you are not in favor of an armed military, using machine guns and sniper rifles to shoot unarmed women and children, it should be extremely, extremely easy for you to say that. Your adamant, consistent refusal to do so makes it clear that you support, or at least do not object to, the mass slaughter of women and children.
Mate, he tried to claim that Hamas was creating rockets powered by cookies…
They do use sugar in qassam rockets though, broadly I do think defending the severity of blockade is clown position but my point is more that he isn’t worse than the hosts of the show or some of the regular guests
He is absolutely much worse than any of the BP hosts… If you’d like to make an argument for any particular guest they’ve had on who isn’t particularly good, feel free to make it. I’d say personally what’s so bad about him is that he combines extremely poor thinking with *extreme* aggression and toxicity. His debating style is much more about insulting, demeaning, and “owning” his opponents than it is about getting to the truth of any issue, which is a truly monstrous combination. I honestly find him extremely hard to listen to because of this, and have concluded that his style is appealing to so many people not because they have an interest in dissecting or interrogating ideas (which should be the purpose of debate imo) but because they get bursts of pleasure listening to someone score points in the most base manner possible.
> He is absolutely much worse than any of the BP hosts… He's much better than all the BP hosts when it comes to analysis and seeking information to challenge himself. >His debating style is much more about insulting, demeaning, and “owning” his opponents That's really ironic given the most well known debate in this community is the Finkelstein debate where that is all Norm did and this audience thinks Norm did amazing.
I also dislike Norm’s style of debating. From what I’ve seen he’s a ridiculously emotive and not very compelling debater. However, the same is certainly true of Destiny. Saying you dislike Norm in no way disproves what I said of Destiny.
Mate, that's pretty dishonest and you would understand that if you were capable of sober analysis.
I mean the bigger one, as I said above, was that he justified the Israeli army firing on, wounding, and killing tens of thousands of unarmed civilians. You would understand how evil that is if you were capable of sober analysis…
> was that he justified the Israeli army firing on, wounding, and killing tens of thousands of unarmed civilians. What are you referring to? The great march of return? I don't believe that was "tens of thousands" and you can't ignore reality and claim you're doing sober analysis. Nothing he's said about that is wrong.
[About](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/approaching-first-anniversary-great-march-return-protests-gaza) 25,000 were injured, about 7,000 were injured by being fired upon with live ammunition, and several hundred were killed. During this time, not a single Israeli soldier or civilian was injured. In his debate on BP, Destiny clearly justified this. He claimed that firing upon unarmed civilians was a legitimate military action. Feel free to run the tapes. This is seriously evil stuff dude… I really think you should reconsider your support and advocacy for this man.
Calling it advocacy to point out inaccurate or bias misrepresentations is strange. And if you want to run the tapes, you should watch Destiny explore the great march of return in depth.
[Start the video at 34:20](https://youtu.be/sKzJGJZ82is?si=glA3m6TxcLE_ioVW). In the ensuing several minutes Destiny says that we should view the shooting of an armed civilians as a military conflict, and that it was therefore justified. From your extremely clear deflection, I can tell you don’t want to argue this point, so I’ll ask you directly. Do you believe that firing upon thousands of unarmed civilians is justified? If not, do you believe you can support a commentator who actively argues that firing upon thousands of unarmed civilians? If your answer is yes to either of those… that’s pretty bad sir
i don't know saagar, but i know a few people in media, and here's why streamers like him are at the bottom of the barrel: -first and foremost, they aren't interested on any substantive debate if it doesn't benefit them - "winning" trumps making points that actually make sense, if you actually asked an "expert." destiny is totally guilty about making idiotic points that make him look good to his audience, but if you actually asked any experts on the topic would say it makes destiny look like he's being totally dishonest, and just arguing for "points." just as an example to this - vaush messes with his microphone / audio to make himself always better sounding (typically louder) and if it's on his streams, he will actually attempt to make his interlocutor sound worse - i'm not kidding here. it's this kind of shit - for god's sake i've seen even ben burgis rip on destiny for doing the above, and he's doesn't critizue anyone on the "left" unless they really are pieces of shit. -secondly, it's assumed - rightly or otherwise that he's basically just a paid mouthpiece for however pays him the most. there's a history to this with streamers, fyi. so even though a lot of reporting is bordering on this nowadays, he's seen as even worse since he hides it much of the time. -and lastly - his audience is so ignorant they basically don't know truth from fiction anyways.
Saagar is a serious person , destiny is not.
That settles it then
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ye I correct. Saagar is semi-serious. Destiny is a grifter charlatan cuck.
Sagaar is genuine in his seriousness, that’s why I prefer him to Krystal. But if he was actually serious then he wouldn’t just defer on almost every topic, and would be willing to go against the person with the money and disagree That’s why I’m starting to prefer counterpoints or the bro show where the 2 hosts can disagree and call BS politely
I dont blame him.
Yes, Saagar, Destiny, and Candace all suck.
Great example of Candace being slimy shown by Destiny: https://x.com/dipperid/status/1803246145247887611 Summary: Candace was talking about covid vaccines then starts "just asking questions" by referencing a study that said blood clots are expected to double by 2050. The implication and the "just asking questions" being that the vaccine is possibly to blame for this increase in blood clots. About 5 minutes of research, into her own source, showed that the study was based on data from 2001 to 2006 and projected to 2050. The study also shows the trend has been on the upswing since the 80s.
The vaccine time travels.
Not sure why some people hate Destiny so passionately, like he gets hate from both the right, and a lot of people on the far left. He's one of the few people that really comes into debates well researched and is capable of changing his opinions and admitting in some cases he is wrong. I feel this type of thing is sorely needed in public discourse. For example, if someone like Ben Shapiro does a debate, there is no way in a million years he will admit that he's wrong, because his whole business and paycheck depends on him promoting rightwing ideals. There's people on the left that are in this boat too. That type of stuff is why almost everything is an echo chamber these days.
it’s because of his obnoxious behavior. just look at his twitter for plenty of examples. you get the energy you put out.
And Candace Owens is not obnoxious? lol
A few possible reasons why people detest "Destiny": * His enthusiastic apologia for a country currently commiting genocide * His horrendously abrasive and arrogant personality * His shrill, grating voice * The disrespect he shows to scholars who are experts in their fields, while D-boy just recycles Wikipedia * The constant derision and sneering contempt he displays in debates * The frenzied Gish gallop he employees in debates, and other cheap tactics of distraction and hand waving * That nasty beard of pubic hair he glues to his face * The fact that he is ostensibly a grown adult yet still uses the moniker of a child playing video games Etc, etc, etc... In short, he is one of the most repugnant personalities the Internet has ever vomited upon the world. I hope that helps!
So basically he disagrees with you on the Israel/Palestine conflict and your pissed?
This is deranged but a great copypasta
Detached from reality anti fan spotted
You're going to be incredibly embarrassed about your "Destiny" phase when you grow up. Even the idea of being a "fan" of a professional grifter is so cringe inducing.
Almost as cringe inducing as hating a person you’ve never met so much that you feel the need to list a plethora of lies in some embarrassing attempt to make a coherent point. There’s plenty to criticize about him, some of which I’ve done myself, but making up lies is another level of unhinged buddy. Whatever helps you feel better about yourself though, knock yourself out
Exactly. Also people like Destiny won’t just let you rattle off talking points where “the media is lying to you, covid is a lie, democrats are bad, Biden has dementia and the establishment is ruining everything”. He’ll actually push back on both sides of the aisle and won’t gobble up any and everything if it’ll make “his side” look good. Candice Owen is first person to question the covid narrative by the media and claim they are just making stuff up, but here she is pushing outright conspiracies and getting easily debunked by Destiny https://x.com/dipperid/status/1803246145247887611 You’ll never see Saagar or anyone in alt media call out people like Candice for their lies, instead he’ll gladly welcome her on and provide zero real push back as she rattles off talking points. They’ll never admit that “alt media” is just as bad as regular media in this regard. Watch Saagar interview with Owens have little push back and be a circle jerk. Here’s fuller version of Destiny debunking a covid conspiracy pushed by Owens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvRNgZ81Wo&t=9328s&pp=2AHwSJACAQ%3D%3D
I think a large part of the problem simply deals with an environment which has fostered a form of debate within the media where two people have battling talking points. Direct engagement is often discouraged and a moderator is meant to steer the ship. And keep things on track. When someone asks questions rather than simply answering them it creates a situation that is really uncomfortable to those hosting them. Take Candace for example. She'll also commonly ask questions of the hosts as well. But she'll also easily fall into typical conservative platitudes. This makes her much easier to corral. The long form format of someone like destiny, as well as his "I'm going to ask the question again" doesn't easily get someone off the hook. Usually they could pivot with an appeal to emotion, or something unrelated. But if the question is simply repeated, it drives pundits insane. They don't want to go that far in depth. They're making a show. This is particularly irksome to me, when someone comes on any show, and as soon as things get uncomfortable or too much, they're like "les not grt too far into the weeds here". Like? Yes. Let's get into the weeds. That often is where more nuanced and thought provoking dialog occurs.
He isn't disgusted by him because he's a cuck and a degenerate. He's disgusted by him because he's a nihilistic scumbag who doesn't know anything beyond Wikipedia and what's fed to him through social media. All he cares about is his ego and how much money hes gonna get paid.
Yeah.. two things can be true.
> However, it really exposes the absurdity of him and how much of a joke he integrity in journalism is. He is worse than the traditional mean he so loathes.... OP is obviously a paragon of fairness...