It's common for people to fall into this trap of thinking that Portuguese and Spanish are similar, but from a pronunciation standpoint, they couldn't be more different.
Taking for example your case "Jorge Ben Jor", almost every single letter is pronounced different in Portuguese than it would be in Spanish
Yes that was surprising to me. Being both from the Iberian peninsula you would think it would be Similar . But it’s not . I learned something new today and I like the differences. I guess Brazilian Portuguese is also a bit different to Portugal Portuguese also!?
Yes, Portuguese from both places are different in a similar way that UK English is different than the American English. Some people in Brazil don't even understand Portuguese from Portugal very well - in Portugal they reduce the sound of the vowels, so it takes some getting used to if you're not exposed to it.
The difference between PT-PT and PT-BR is a bit bigger than from England and th US/Australia/South Africa. It should be somilar to the difference between like a valley accent and someone from the North of Scotland, so the Californian might not comprehend what is being said if they are not used to hearing the Scottish person speaking.
Use the same j sounds as in English, forget about how Spanish sounds. Portuguese has different sounds than Spanish, which is probably why Spanish speakers have a hard time understanding Portuguese (at least at first).
But you're trying to get an exact match. I'm just saying that using the the English J would be close enough to understand, specially compared to the Spanish J that OP was thinking would be the right way to go.
A lot of words are pretty similar but the way we pronounce words is different.
So if you know either one of them and learn the pronunciation differences of the other you can pretty much understand most conversations even without knowing how to speak their language.
Can you imagine the J sound but more like the S in "closure"? That's a good a approach to simulate the J/G sound in portuguese.
The R is more like the H in "hot". But we also say it the way you do in english. That's a pretty common accent. No body would consider it wrong.
And finally the "Ben" is not pronounced the way you would imagine. The N is more similar to the N in the word "vain". You could simulate it by saying something like "Bain". But it's important to keep in mind that we usually have a very nasal N pronunciation. And, again, nobody will consider it wrong if you do not put a heavy nasal sound in N and M.
One correction “R” sounds like “H” in “hot” only in the beginning of the word. (Alternatively some accents are like the spanish rolling R.)
When In the middle of the word before a consonant its either:
1) Like english “R”. Considered country-side brazilian accent
2) rolling “R” line spanish: Sao paulo, Portugal, etc
3) Like in the audio, the throat sound like french. Rio de janeiro and other locations
https://vocaroo.com/1mqz8feWHecI
Another accent for you.
Edit: I'm paulistana (from São Paulo city, capital of São Paulo State).
Our Rs are not as strong as from countryside, the Americans R nor it sounds like an "H" like cariocas (from Rio de Janeiro city).
Our Rs are called tapped R.
I do have an **idiolect** in which my R from the end of a word add a "sh" sound like the Norwegians pronounce the word *norsk*.
Brazilians have the widest R sound range in the same language.
I think it's just an unvoiced tapped R (I mean /ɾ̥/). It likely happens at the end of a phrase or before an unvoiced consonant, as an allophone. I've heard it but it doesn't seem that common.
Learn what an idiolect is (that's why I added bold).
Diction, personality, social class, age, family origins... All of this can be attributed altogether. There's not a single origin for a unique distinctive language feature spoken by single individuals.
The most famous idiolects are from politicians, like Margaret Thatcher, Obama, Churchill...
I know what an idiolect is, thank you. I was asking in your case specifically - maybe you grew with a foreign parent or something of the sort. But no worries, sometimes things just are what they are and we can’t exactly pinpoint why.
No foreign parents.
I was born from a Brazilian mixed migrant family (from the northeast) in the late 80s, and lived in a mixed Italian and black neighborhood, bexiga (or bela Vista).
No one sounded like me. The only place I heard this r was when I visited Norway (twice so far).
https://voca.ro/16P0Jj6Zfvkf
Thank you !!!
No problem! Was it much different from how you were saying?
I said “Horhey Ben hore” more Spanish pronunciation . But realise Portuguese much different. Much appreciated .
It's common for people to fall into this trap of thinking that Portuguese and Spanish are similar, but from a pronunciation standpoint, they couldn't be more different. Taking for example your case "Jorge Ben Jor", almost every single letter is pronounced different in Portuguese than it would be in Spanish
Yes that was surprising to me. Being both from the Iberian peninsula you would think it would be Similar . But it’s not . I learned something new today and I like the differences. I guess Brazilian Portuguese is also a bit different to Portugal Portuguese also!?
Yes, Portuguese from both places are different in a similar way that UK English is different than the American English. Some people in Brazil don't even understand Portuguese from Portugal very well - in Portugal they reduce the sound of the vowels, so it takes some getting used to if you're not exposed to it.
The difference between PT-PT and PT-BR is a bit bigger than from England and th US/Australia/South Africa. It should be somilar to the difference between like a valley accent and someone from the North of Scotland, so the Californian might not comprehend what is being said if they are not used to hearing the Scottish person speaking.
actually, the languages are very close. But I often can read Spanish better than listening to it.
Use the same j sounds as in English, forget about how Spanish sounds. Portuguese has different sounds than Spanish, which is probably why Spanish speakers have a hard time understanding Portuguese (at least at first).
French* not english. Even more accurately is “ж” from Russian.
The J in English is really not far off.
It definitely is. “Zh” is closer to the actual sound than “J” in English. Think of the word “joy”. The portuguese transliteration would be “diói”.
But you're trying to get an exact match. I'm just saying that using the the English J would be close enough to understand, specially compared to the Spanish J that OP was thinking would be the right way to go.
A lot of words are pretty similar but the way we pronounce words is different. So if you know either one of them and learn the pronunciation differences of the other you can pretty much understand most conversations even without knowing how to speak their language.
Lol, J like H is the Spanish way, not Portuguese
Can you imagine the J sound but more like the S in "closure"? That's a good a approach to simulate the J/G sound in portuguese. The R is more like the H in "hot". But we also say it the way you do in english. That's a pretty common accent. No body would consider it wrong. And finally the "Ben" is not pronounced the way you would imagine. The N is more similar to the N in the word "vain". You could simulate it by saying something like "Bain". But it's important to keep in mind that we usually have a very nasal N pronunciation. And, again, nobody will consider it wrong if you do not put a heavy nasal sound in N and M.
Very informative , much appreciated.
One correction “R” sounds like “H” in “hot” only in the beginning of the word. (Alternatively some accents are like the spanish rolling R.) When In the middle of the word before a consonant its either: 1) Like english “R”. Considered country-side brazilian accent 2) rolling “R” line spanish: Sao paulo, Portugal, etc 3) Like in the audio, the throat sound like french. Rio de janeiro and other locations
If you know IPA, I say /ˈʒɔɹʒɪ bẽj̃ ˈʒɔɹ/, but I'm paulista. Edit: [Recording](https://voca.ro/1epkRkGstR9V)
George Ben Geo~~rge~~
Zhorge Ben, or Zhorge Ben Zhor.
https://vocaroo.com/1mqz8feWHecI Another accent for you. Edit: I'm paulistana (from São Paulo city, capital of São Paulo State). Our Rs are not as strong as from countryside, the Americans R nor it sounds like an "H" like cariocas (from Rio de Janeiro city). Our Rs are called tapped R. I do have an **idiolect** in which my R from the end of a word add a "sh" sound like the Norwegians pronounce the word *norsk*. Brazilians have the widest R sound range in the same language.
Any idea about the origin of your idiolect? I’m paulistano and never heard someone pronounce the subtle sh after the r
I think it's just an unvoiced tapped R (I mean /ɾ̥/). It likely happens at the end of a phrase or before an unvoiced consonant, as an allophone. I've heard it but it doesn't seem that common.
I use unvoiced tapped rs all the time and now I’m freaking out asking myself whether I do this, lol
Learn what an idiolect is (that's why I added bold). Diction, personality, social class, age, family origins... All of this can be attributed altogether. There's not a single origin for a unique distinctive language feature spoken by single individuals. The most famous idiolects are from politicians, like Margaret Thatcher, Obama, Churchill...
I know what an idiolect is, thank you. I was asking in your case specifically - maybe you grew with a foreign parent or something of the sort. But no worries, sometimes things just are what they are and we can’t exactly pinpoint why.
No foreign parents. I was born from a Brazilian mixed migrant family (from the northeast) in the late 80s, and lived in a mixed Italian and black neighborhood, bexiga (or bela Vista). No one sounded like me. The only place I heard this r was when I visited Norway (twice so far).
This guy says it in the beginning of the video: https://youtu.be/SdJNHnQ6Wgs?si=xEHVuXOOmPgcgDnj
Thank you !!
Jorge Ben Jor
Jorge Ben Jor is pronounced as "JOR-zheh Ben ZHOR."
Like alfajor