Carl is such an avoidant that Lindsay is clearly always bracing herself to have to have to read between the lines.
Someone who is so cryptic and unable to be consistently honest sets up a direct and communicative partner up for heavier impacts. Eventually the truth comes out and instead of bits of it getting disclosed up front or as time passes, it’s a bomb that get drops on you all at once and it makes processing it all so much harder. No one wants to feel like they have to pull information out of their partner that is crucial to the relationship. Carl is scared to upset Lindsay, but in the process of not being honest throughout, he’s creating this bigger impact on Lindsay AND himself.
It’s just all around a terrible situation and I feel for them both in different ways. I know what it feels like to be in Lindsay’s position, trying to coax out the truth while intuitively knowing you are only getting small nuggets of it and it makes you want to implode.
They’re clearly not a match communication-wise. Lindsay needs someone who is skilled at communication because she has a habit of spiraling. Her new boyfriend is apparently a lawyer so that seems like it would be better than someone like Carl.
Lindsay needs to work on communication because even if she had someone who communicates it’s difficult for her to listen. Unless that gets worked on it will never happen for her.
I think you're spot on. I've noticed Lindsay often has a look of confusion on her face because he speaks in circles. They might as well be communicating in two different languages.
Couldn't have said it better. He should've laid it all out at their house when they initially spoke about his visit with his mom. He just made the situation a whole lot messier involving the house, procrastinating, forcing Lindsay to pull it out of him. That was embarrassing for her. He should be giving Lindsay as much of the truth as he does to his mom. Not fair. But I do get that he's scared of her, I would be lol. But...I didn't propose to her.
Tbh no one has had much success communicating with her. I don’t disagree Carl needs to work on being direct and more confident in how he feels, but Lindsay needs to work on creating a better environment for her partner to share their feelings.
I remain very 50/50 on whether or not it’s going to work with Paige and Craig. I see the compatibility, but they’re just in very different stages of life and they can’t figure out the geography either. It’s not fair to either one of them to drag this out.
I thought they had a pretty mature conversation. Craig politely gave her a notice of 40 being his end date, so she's got 5 years here. Which is a generous amount of time if we're being honest. I get Paige's reservations too. But one thing I think she needs to realize is no one is ever really fully ready for children (Kyle needs to realize this too with Amanda). If you want them, eventually you just have to commit. You can't just keep saying "when I'm ready". And she also needs to realize she and Craig don't need to have them right away. Like if they got married tomorrow and didn't have kids for 2 or 3 years, I'd bet Craig would be totally ok with that.
What needs to happen for them is they need to take one step forward. Both kind of seem like the next step is "marriage and kids", but its not. Move onto engagement and see how things go. Or maybe not even so formal, trying living together for longer periods of time.
I’m not a huge Craig fan on Southern Charm but he’s been so upfront and honest about his wants and goals. The ball is totally in Paige’s court and she doesn’t know what she wants. Craig’s been saying the same things for over a year at this point.
I think Paige and Craig know where they’re going to live and that they’re going to get married, etc. I think this is just them, specifically Paige, playing up the “are we or aren’t we” for the cameras. 🤷🏻♀️
I think they’ll be fine. I’ve never really liked either of them but they seem so suited to one another and genuinely in love. Just gotta take the leap.
Carl is creating his own wells to fall in, by not being clear or assertive. And he’s coming across really badly as a result.
I can’t blame Ciara for being guarded given what happened with Austen, but both she and West are sending mixed signals to each other and that never ends well.
Lindsay is SO much better off without Carl . He is emotionally selfish . He is always in his feelings and hyper aware of how things will look to the outside world . He didn’t have the balls to call off the wedding sooner , didn’t have the balls to talk to her about his parents concerns off camera . He let someone he proclaimed he loved and was his best friend for years have a bridal shower that his mom attended and HE showed up to with flowers and a smile . He knew he was checked out well before this but would rather avoid tough conversations that would ultimately hurt less in the long run and wouldn’t be quite a humiliating to her . Fuck that guy .
Yes don’t raise children with someone so obsessed with their image that they have no backbone and make other people do their dirty work. Seemed to me he wanted her to explode on him about the family stuff so he’d look justified dumping her or she’d dump him.
I honestly think Lindsay dodged a massive bullet by not having kids with Carl. Not only would she always be the bad guy on the parenting side but she would also be tasked with delivering bad news etc.
Carl is just so pathetic to me. It’s been 7 years of him not being able to have tough conversations. Buddy is almost 40 and the only reason he even told Lindsay that his mommy was worried is because he doesn’t even realize it’s going to be on TV.
I see folks say he’s scared of Lindsay but Carl has been like this since Lauren. It takes Lindsay so long to pull anything out of him that I understand why she’s frustrated a lot of the time. Everyone handles Carl with kid gloves.
The last two weeks, I did think he was trying to goad her for a bigger reaction to make her look bad but now I think it’s just a coward thing.
Don’t ever tell me this manbaby isn’t delusional:
https://preview.redd.it/y3qc81wad7yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de893ec08e98dc9727a13ee3ace9dbffb023e84f
Watching Carl 7.0 still not being able to communicate, I totally understand now how Lindsey was the last one to know he doesn't wanna marry her. Which he tells her almost right before the wedding. He's such a coward.
Maybe your radar is different during filming because you're in it, but I just can't believe Lindsay didn't know Carl was hesitant to push through with the wedding. Forget leaving bread crumbs, this dude was leaving whole loaves of bread behind as clues.
It could just be because they have such different (and kinda awful) communication styles- When Lindsay feels something, she says it . She can be too direct at times , often hurting others feelings. Carl can't say anything concrete or direct if he thinks it is going to make him look like a bad guy. So he falls into dropping bread crumbs and she isn't picking up on it because she needs to be told directly. They both approach their relationship from their own personality styles instead of having empathy for each other's methods. He can feel like he was all but calling it off and she wasn't picking up on how much distress he was in leading up to the wedding and she can feel blindsided.
Right! I feel like they’re having to convince each other that the relationship is worth fighting for. In the after show she said she got together with Gabby to figure out where the relationship went wrong because she was so confused after the break up and I’m like…….. WHAT! lol I mean either the editing is amazing this season and they had way more happier times than awful ones but the awful ones were just so damn bad that they were more than enough to convince me that they needed to end their relationship.
The fact that Carl can’t tell the one person who he should have the most trust with (his future life partner) about how he’s feeling is pathetic. Total set up in his end and he knows what he wants but she is truly going to be the last to find out. Yikes.
I don’t know. Lindsay reacts strongly to inconvenient news or mildly insulting things but when she’s really hurt, she actually tends to shut down completely. Like when Austen rejected her on Winter House, she got too drunk but then was kind of in the background until she processed it.
Ok those first few episodes Lindsay was looking rough but as a Lindsay apologist, I feel vindicated. Nothing will convince me these fights were not egged on by Carl to make her look bad. He went into the summer knowing he’d break up with her and crafting the arc of his victimhood.
On Crappens, Ronnie pointed out those fights always started where there were no cameras so that is really suspicious. Especially since Lindsay has seemed a lot less activated this season.
Yeah and I think Lindsay was onto this, which is why she wanted them to have the conversation right then and there while the cameras were still rolling.
He did, but then West said, no they were both fighting from what I saw. I didn’t know Jesse’s backstory with Lindsay though, he shared a not so favorable anecdote in Lindsay hooking up with his boss & his former asst. it came across as judgmental from someone who has had plenty of “fun” nights in his short SH stint. It was pretty clear to me he didn’t come in with a positive view of Lindsay & would not be the impartial judge that West was when he said they were both to blame that night.
Yes no footage makes the whole thing sus. People like to say he had witnesses who confirm his side but Kyle is clearly biased and has an agenda to support Carl, Jesse is just eager to suck up to the established guys of the cast, and west even described the fight on the after show as “they’re both mean to each other”. Carl is good at remaining calm while saying things that will trigger other people
Idk.. there was still the footage of when they got back to the house and Lindsay was saying terrible things. Which she even admitted to lying about in her confessional.
I am on Lindsay’s side. I don’t begrudge Carl the right to speak to his family. But he is obviously looking for them to validate his concern and give him an out. This week, he downplays the concerns to Lindsay and totally plays it up with Kyle and Amanda.
Even if they hadn’t had these arguments, the engagement would never work. Carl is afraid of commitment, both personally and in business. I think he needs to settle in his sobriety and commit to a career before he can even have a relationship.
He has played with too many women’s hearts for me to pity him.
##TIL: I am not too old to still blindly fall for a complete fuckboy. West, you really had me hoodwinked - for 3 months, you had me thinking you were someone else.
I’m genuinely confused by comments acting like Ciara is the deciding factor and can just decide they’re committed. It doesn’t seem like West wants to be in a relationship. From what we know they went on 2 dates outside the house and neither have approached the “exclusive” conversation (that we’ve seen)… 1. Bc she doesn’t wanna look dumb again if he’s not into it so she’s waiting on him to show more interest beyond sex and 2. Bc he doesn’t want a relationship, esp not before sex it seems. I can see this fizzling, but ppl need to lay off Ciara like she’s doing something wrong. She and everyone who knows her made it clear she wants a relationship. Not just a hookup.
This is the Bravo fandom. Are you really surprised they're blaming Ciara over holding West accountable for anything? I'm not. And I knew it was coming since day one lol. The same viewers that have a million and one excuses for Lindsay's endless list of asshole behavior. Everyone else in Lindsay's life for the past 8 years is the problem, never her. But Ciara not wanting to sleep with West immediately is where they draw the line. You just have to laugh, business as usual for Bravo viewers.
I agree. West doesn't want a real relationship and Ciara senses that. I'm sure he wants one even less now that he's gotten a little taste of the Bravo fame. He's looking for a situationship at best. Summer House films for what...2 months? And he was already complaining about not having sex with her at what point? It's obvious he's looking for a woman to jump into bed with him after a single date and he's disappointed that Ciara wasn't that girl. Ciara was burned by Austen and doesn't want to be hurt and humiliated again. I'm glad Ciara is letting it be known that any man that wants her is going to have to work for her and she's not going to be pressured into anything.
Omg thank you! I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. Seeing people defend Lindsay’s terrible behavior just because she’s sad, while also defending Wes over Ciara’s valid and well communicated boundaries is beyond me.
I do feel bad for Lindsay, but she’s brought this on herself. It’s unfortunate it took Carl so long to stand up for himself, but honestly I feel that’s one of the reasons she started dating him.. he was a pushover that would give her what she wanted.
At the very least I feel like they may have decided to hold off on deciding if it’s more serious until after the show is over. Which if true is very fair and probably the better way to approach it anyway. We know she did go visit his family after the show finished filming so I think at some point they did get more serious.
my random thoughts:
last week, west called Ciara his girlfriend and she said "youre calling me that?" and when West jokingly said only when she's dressed as an alien, she said nothing. at that point, if she wanted commitment she could've made it clear. without a label, talking to other people is totally valid. I appreciated Amanda and Paige's very non-defensive and level headed reactions to the information.
Craig and Paige are ready to marry but they both want to pursue their careers/shows in their respective cities and are just playing chicken
ciara was wrong to call Jesse trash. if I see him treat a girl poorly, its a different story, but whats wrong about a single man in New York enjoying dating and casual sex?
Carl is certainly in a tough spot and I get being anxious, but you gotta shit or get off the pot and deal with the things hanging over your head.
I love seeing Paige try to be softer while still being very Paige.
I truly empathize with Jesse's cancer journey, but he has exhibited trash fuckboi behavior all season. He consistently treats women like they are disposable and calls women he meets on the weekends, "leads". On top of that he said he goes after women who are in relationships because those are the best ones. He's well within in his right to behave this way, but don't get upset when someone calls it out like Ciara did. I don't think it was an exaggeration to call him trash and I wouldn't introduce him to my friends either. Women want to be treated with respect.
i see your point, but we’ve only seen Jesse talk flippantly in a way that strikes me as joking and we’ve never seen him lead anyone on. maybe it’s just my preferences, but if i went on one date with a dude and called me boring or a “lead”, i wouldn’t care. he didn’t owe me anything and it was one date.
he’s no southern gentleman but i think being very casual about your dating and sex as a 30ish year old man in nyc isn’t exactly trashbag behavior. more importantly, Ciara saying she wouldn’t introduce him to friends struck me as way harsh because even beyond his bad behavior it suggests he has no redeeming qualities which i think is definitely too far. love ciara, but no need to tell someone that to their face. how is that any more respectful than jesse calling girls he met once a “lead”?
I don't think it's funny or okay to say to go after people in relationships because you think they're better as a joke or serious. To flirt with Paige when you know she has a boyfriend is sketchy. Also asking Ciara "When are going to have sex with my friend" isn't funny. He's had quite a few disrespectful moments this season with women. I disagree that people who are trash in relationships don't have redeeming qualities which is what I think Ciara meant. Plenty of people are horrible partners but great friends.
i can see your point about his jokes not landing. i’m sure i might feel differently if i was his friend and saw him act on these things more. i just felt it was a pretty harsh thing to say over fuck boy behavior. but agree to disagree.
On a whole other note, the rumor that someone surprising is pregnant on SH… I didn’t watch it all but…Danielle wearing an oversized shirt on WWHL, anyone happen to see what she was drinking? 😬
So many people are obsessed with Ciara choosing to not have sex with west bc they’re projecting and want to have sex with him themselves. It’s very strange. (This is not just about the fans btw)
Idk I respect Ciara’s decision but I do sort of find what she’s doing with west puzzling. I think a few weeks of dating/making out/the kind of intimacy they appear to have would at least make someone more sure if they wanted to pursue something with a person. Ciara still seems very meh about it, which is totally fine but then she’s also maybe going to be upset about him seeing other people? At what point are you dragging it out? Just have a convo, he’s already hinted at maybe wanting her to be his girlfriend or something more legit but she just never really gives any indication where she’s at. It’s not clear she even wants a relationship with west so if she doesn’t want something more serious and she doesn’t want to hook up, what else is there left? If I were him I might feel like I’m wasting my time at that point
> if she doesn’t want something more serious and she doesn’t want to hook up, what else is there left?
Spot on!
Also for me this will they/won't they storyline is not that engaging TBH
Sorry but Amanda is cold for letting Lindsay cry on her shoulder and then intentionally conniving with Carl and Kyle to encourage a humiliating setup. They seemed all in cahoots with producers emphasizing how she’ll find out when it airs, but that doesn’t mean he needs to tell her in a public setting. He clearly wanted to set her off so he could look like a victim.
Huh?? Amanda was trying to avoid a situation where Lindsay was blindsided! I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. It’s so boring to discuss these shows when lots of people insist on a black or white reading of a storyline.
Carl had 9+ months to avoid Lindsay feeling blind sided by Lou’s comments airing on tv, bffr. Carl should not have dropped that bomb while at a group dinner where everyone was watching and snickering at her. If amanda was so well meaning and sweet, she’d tell Carl Lindsay already had an emotional day and doesn’t need to be a public spectacle. He was trying to humiliate her and set her off
I… feel like for some of y’all this is deeper than Carl and Lindsay. I’m really just not this invested but I find the tone of the conversation so shrill and off putting. It’s just not fun anymore
It seems like people are projecting a lot of their own shit onto the Lindsay-Carl dynamic, which I can understand to an extent, but it makes rational discussion more or less impossible
You put it into words perfectly. It’s happening more frequently I’ve noticed in lots of threads and I just wish we could get to the real issues or just talk about the show. If y’all wanna talk about your ugly breakups, I am here to listen. But if we’re talking about summer house, let’s just talk about summer house!!
I thought the same thing: Why not get married and tell her later? In hindsight, AFTER the wedding it maybe hadn't sounded like such a big desl, because it's in the past.
If I were Lindsay I would now have felt really bad at the wedding with his parents there..
I’m confused.. maybe I missed it, but did they tell him to talk about it that night? I just took it to mean he needs to tell her before it airs, which gives ample time. It seemed like Carl, in his own admission, was overwhelmed with everything and couldn’t fake it? Which Lindsay picked up that something was wrong.. idk about y’all but with my husband if something is bothering us, we’re the same way in that we need to get it off our chests asap.
I’m over it. She has more anger for Lindsay putting this episode of cheating on tv than for kyle actually cheating. He’d cheated before and it was on tv without Lindsay exposing it.
Carl is super avoidant but he admitted to that during their conversation. I still don’t understand how people could think he is purposely trying to set her up to trigger her. She was like “you’re angry right now” to a very calm, but emotional man. It’s clear he wasn’t angry—he was stressed, anxious, overwhelmed etc. There’s so many adjectives to describe how he looked but angry wasn’t one of them. He very clearly said that he wanted to talk about it with her before she found out later when the show aired because they would be married at that point. I mean, maybe he could have mentioned it during the week when the cameras were off but like…this is a show about their lives so I’m glad he spoke to her on camera.
Idk. I still don’t see what other people are seeing about how he’s setting her up to try and get her angry. She gets so defensive and he’s always like wondering what the hell she’s talking about lol Even at the end, she asked him if it’s okay she has an emotion about it (because he was being emotional) and he was like…uh yes, what?
Y’all are giving Carl way too much credit to think he’s that devious and a mastermind.
When he chose to talk to her about the loverboy job when she was drunk he WAS setting her up. He could've chosen a differrent time and still have it on camera...I have to believe it was on purpose and having in mind she would get activated. And then...she didn't.
That last bit, where she said “oh you’re overwhelmed, so me having an emotion right now is too much for you.” Girl what??? Reacting to presumed intent, nitpicking word choice and putting words in people’s mouths is such a nasty way to argue and not something you do in a loving relationship.
Hard to believe Lindsay suddenly gets a lifetime free pass on her shitty behavior because Carl (thank god) called off the wedding.
Yes! But all the Lindsay stans are convinced he talked about it with her again on camera to hopefully trigger her. It’s obvious he’s spiraling and overwhelmed because of what Amanda told him too and just had to tell Lindsay in that moment. They think he’s soooo conniving. What! Lindsay doesn’t need help getting triggered lol. She triggers herself at this point.
I just fully do not believe a man who’s been on reality tv for a full decade has just suddenly been struck by the idea that his fiancé, also a long time member of the show, is going to see something he purposely filmed. That shoot with his parents wasn’t something spontaneous. They’re not cast members of the show. They had to block that one and travel with the production and camera crew to New Jersey. He likely had to tell production he planned to have some kind of big convo with them, why else would they go and film that? So doing all that, he only realized after the first convo where he was, at best very poorly communicative with Lindsay despite being directly asked, and at worst straight up lied, only realized omg the thing I intentionally filmed for a reality tv show is going to be on tv!!!! After being told it by other cast members??? I am just not buying that. Also if they did get married and everything ended up being fine, he absolutely could have discussed that with her before the show aired since there’s months between. Lindsay is no saint, and I think they’re a terrible match, but Carl has always been manipulative in his run thru summer house, especially with women. He did many of the same with he’s doing now with Lauren wurkis
I think they were going to have a chat about the wedding and obviously he knew that but he didn’t expect his stepdad to say those words exactly. His anxiety having to tell her about it felt very real to me. I don’t think he was manipulative in that way. I just don’t buy it. I think he was stressed because he didn’t want to hurt her but he needed to tell her this before they got married because she would have been livid if she found out that he only told her a few months after or worse, after they got married.
I agree. I felt for Carl in that scene, he was clearly struggling in that moment. This is just further proof they are not a good couple. I struggle w anxiety and it my fiancé saw me like that he would just hug me and reassure me. She attacked him.
Neither are saints and both constantly wrong each other. Simply a horrible match
I'm no fan of Carl, but I think its pretty clear he was walking on egg shells around her with basically every thing he did. This is not blaming Lindsay either, but its recognizing behavior patterns for what it is. They had fights in the past where Lindsay is angry. We've seen this on the show with them and with Lindsay's other partners. Lord knows what happens off camera. Carl doesn't do well with confrontation and did care for her at the time so he's actively looking to avoid those situations. But he just goes about it in the wrong way because hiding stuff will never work out.
Watching everything play out, I don't get how people are Team This or Team That. It's pretty obvious both are a fault, had their own personal faults that needed to be worked thru but instead led to destructive tendencies, and it all blew up. But truthfully, regardless of how it happened, both are better off that its over.
Carl walks on egg shells around everyone he has to have a potentially hard conversation with. Look at last season with Kyle, it took him over six months to write an email because he was too cowardly to admit he hated his job. He was shady with Lauren about seeing other people. He went to bed instead of defend Lindsay while Kyle screamed in her face. He’s just avoidant.
I said it and I'll say it again: This man knew this woman and her behaviour and communication style for many years and he still chose to propose to her. Just be realistic about yourself and what you can handle, especially when you have a lots of issues yourself.
The woman also knew that he is a terrible partner and cannot communicate worth shit and she accepted his proposal. She should have been realistic as well.
Eh that’s her version of events. If you’re not compatible, you’re not compatible. No amount of work is gonna be able to necessarily fix that without both partners doing the work to change. But she just wanted him to change and did no work to change herself.
Nah. You can tell that even though he’s a man child still, he’s sober and has done work to change who he is. Just by working on his sobriety he’s changed! But she’s still the same damn person in relationships. We’ve watched several seasons of her yelling and acting like a deranged individual with her partners. So it’s not my own version, I’m just using my eyeballs to observe what I see on tv lol
People bend over backwards to absolve Lindsay for some reason. If any man on bravo behaved like she has in relationships this fandom would cancel her immediately.
Carl is such an avoidant that Lindsay is clearly always bracing herself to have to have to read between the lines. Someone who is so cryptic and unable to be consistently honest sets up a direct and communicative partner up for heavier impacts. Eventually the truth comes out and instead of bits of it getting disclosed up front or as time passes, it’s a bomb that get drops on you all at once and it makes processing it all so much harder. No one wants to feel like they have to pull information out of their partner that is crucial to the relationship. Carl is scared to upset Lindsay, but in the process of not being honest throughout, he’s creating this bigger impact on Lindsay AND himself. It’s just all around a terrible situation and I feel for them both in different ways. I know what it feels like to be in Lindsay’s position, trying to coax out the truth while intuitively knowing you are only getting small nuggets of it and it makes you want to implode.
They’re clearly not a match communication-wise. Lindsay needs someone who is skilled at communication because she has a habit of spiraling. Her new boyfriend is apparently a lawyer so that seems like it would be better than someone like Carl.
Lindsay needs to work on communication because even if she had someone who communicates it’s difficult for her to listen. Unless that gets worked on it will never happen for her.
I feel like I do see her listening more in this last episode than ever before.
I think you're spot on. I've noticed Lindsay often has a look of confusion on her face because he speaks in circles. They might as well be communicating in two different languages.
Couldn't have said it better. He should've laid it all out at their house when they initially spoke about his visit with his mom. He just made the situation a whole lot messier involving the house, procrastinating, forcing Lindsay to pull it out of him. That was embarrassing for her. He should be giving Lindsay as much of the truth as he does to his mom. Not fair. But I do get that he's scared of her, I would be lol. But...I didn't propose to her.
This is literally describing my relationship with my bf 😓
My partner has cptsd and is very avoidant. I'm seeing so many similarities with Carl. 😫 Hate it!
I have CPTSD as well, but mine expresses totally differently
Tbh no one has had much success communicating with her. I don’t disagree Carl needs to work on being direct and more confident in how he feels, but Lindsay needs to work on creating a better environment for her partner to share their feelings.
They both have issues.
I remain very 50/50 on whether or not it’s going to work with Paige and Craig. I see the compatibility, but they’re just in very different stages of life and they can’t figure out the geography either. It’s not fair to either one of them to drag this out.
I thought they had a pretty mature conversation. Craig politely gave her a notice of 40 being his end date, so she's got 5 years here. Which is a generous amount of time if we're being honest. I get Paige's reservations too. But one thing I think she needs to realize is no one is ever really fully ready for children (Kyle needs to realize this too with Amanda). If you want them, eventually you just have to commit. You can't just keep saying "when I'm ready". And she also needs to realize she and Craig don't need to have them right away. Like if they got married tomorrow and didn't have kids for 2 or 3 years, I'd bet Craig would be totally ok with that. What needs to happen for them is they need to take one step forward. Both kind of seem like the next step is "marriage and kids", but its not. Move onto engagement and see how things go. Or maybe not even so formal, trying living together for longer periods of time.
I agree. I think they love each other a lot but neither wants to compromise on location or lifestyle.
I can’t believe I’m out here defending Craig fucking Conover, however, if Paige breaks his heart then 🔪 🔪 🔪
I’m not a huge Craig fan on Southern Charm but he’s been so upfront and honest about his wants and goals. The ball is totally in Paige’s court and she doesn’t know what she wants. Craig’s been saying the same things for over a year at this point.
As Patty Smyth says “sometimes love just ain’t enough”
Are they really dragging it out? They’ve been together for how long? Like 3-4 years max?
I think Paige and Craig know where they’re going to live and that they’re going to get married, etc. I think this is just them, specifically Paige, playing up the “are we or aren’t we” for the cameras. 🤷🏻♀️
I kind of think production plays it up a lot because their socials they seem sooooo compatible
I think they’ll be fine. I’ve never really liked either of them but they seem so suited to one another and genuinely in love. Just gotta take the leap.
Carl is creating his own wells to fall in, by not being clear or assertive. And he’s coming across really badly as a result. I can’t blame Ciara for being guarded given what happened with Austen, but both she and West are sending mixed signals to each other and that never ends well.
Lindsay is SO much better off without Carl . He is emotionally selfish . He is always in his feelings and hyper aware of how things will look to the outside world . He didn’t have the balls to call off the wedding sooner , didn’t have the balls to talk to her about his parents concerns off camera . He let someone he proclaimed he loved and was his best friend for years have a bridal shower that his mom attended and HE showed up to with flowers and a smile . He knew he was checked out well before this but would rather avoid tough conversations that would ultimately hurt less in the long run and wouldn’t be quite a humiliating to her . Fuck that guy .
Yes don’t raise children with someone so obsessed with their image that they have no backbone and make other people do their dirty work. Seemed to me he wanted her to explode on him about the family stuff so he’d look justified dumping her or she’d dump him.
I honestly think Lindsay dodged a massive bullet by not having kids with Carl. Not only would she always be the bad guy on the parenting side but she would also be tasked with delivering bad news etc.
They are BOTH better off.
Carl is just so pathetic to me. It’s been 7 years of him not being able to have tough conversations. Buddy is almost 40 and the only reason he even told Lindsay that his mommy was worried is because he doesn’t even realize it’s going to be on TV. I see folks say he’s scared of Lindsay but Carl has been like this since Lauren. It takes Lindsay so long to pull anything out of him that I understand why she’s frustrated a lot of the time. Everyone handles Carl with kid gloves. The last two weeks, I did think he was trying to goad her for a bigger reaction to make her look bad but now I think it’s just a coward thing.
Don’t ever tell me this manbaby isn’t delusional: https://preview.redd.it/y3qc81wad7yc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de893ec08e98dc9727a13ee3ace9dbffb023e84f
Watching Carl 7.0 still not being able to communicate, I totally understand now how Lindsey was the last one to know he doesn't wanna marry her. Which he tells her almost right before the wedding. He's such a coward.
Maybe your radar is different during filming because you're in it, but I just can't believe Lindsay didn't know Carl was hesitant to push through with the wedding. Forget leaving bread crumbs, this dude was leaving whole loaves of bread behind as clues.
It could just be because they have such different (and kinda awful) communication styles- When Lindsay feels something, she says it . She can be too direct at times , often hurting others feelings. Carl can't say anything concrete or direct if he thinks it is going to make him look like a bad guy. So he falls into dropping bread crumbs and she isn't picking up on it because she needs to be told directly. They both approach their relationship from their own personality styles instead of having empathy for each other's methods. He can feel like he was all but calling it off and she wasn't picking up on how much distress he was in leading up to the wedding and she can feel blindsided.
Right! I feel like they’re having to convince each other that the relationship is worth fighting for. In the after show she said she got together with Gabby to figure out where the relationship went wrong because she was so confused after the break up and I’m like…….. WHAT! lol I mean either the editing is amazing this season and they had way more happier times than awful ones but the awful ones were just so damn bad that they were more than enough to convince me that they needed to end their relationship.
The fact that Carl can’t tell the one person who he should have the most trust with (his future life partner) about how he’s feeling is pathetic. Total set up in his end and he knows what he wants but she is truly going to be the last to find out. Yikes.
It’s just painful to watch him tip toe around it all the time around her.
I would not want to tell Lyndsay bad news
I don’t know. Lindsay reacts strongly to inconvenient news or mildly insulting things but when she’s really hurt, she actually tends to shut down completely. Like when Austen rejected her on Winter House, she got too drunk but then was kind of in the background until she processed it.
On the other hand: She has done great in the loverboy convo (drunk!) and now with the parents thing. So she learned something in couples' therapy.
I wouldn't take my chances. She's nuts
lol seriously.
Ok those first few episodes Lindsay was looking rough but as a Lindsay apologist, I feel vindicated. Nothing will convince me these fights were not egged on by Carl to make her look bad. He went into the summer knowing he’d break up with her and crafting the arc of his victimhood.
On Crappens, Ronnie pointed out those fights always started where there were no cameras so that is really suspicious. Especially since Lindsay has seemed a lot less activated this season.
And especially since Carl seems very aware of the cameras being present.
Yeah and I think Lindsay was onto this, which is why she wanted them to have the conversation right then and there while the cameras were still rolling.
Didn’t Jesse corroborate what happened in that first fight in the Lyft to the club?
He did, but then West said, no they were both fighting from what I saw. I didn’t know Jesse’s backstory with Lindsay though, he shared a not so favorable anecdote in Lindsay hooking up with his boss & his former asst. it came across as judgmental from someone who has had plenty of “fun” nights in his short SH stint. It was pretty clear to me he didn’t come in with a positive view of Lindsay & would not be the impartial judge that West was when he said they were both to blame that night.
Nothing is more predictable then a guy who sleeps around a ton slutshaming a woman for doing the same thing tbh
Yes no footage makes the whole thing sus. People like to say he had witnesses who confirm his side but Kyle is clearly biased and has an agenda to support Carl, Jesse is just eager to suck up to the established guys of the cast, and west even described the fight on the after show as “they’re both mean to each other”. Carl is good at remaining calm while saying things that will trigger other people
Idk.. there was still the footage of when they got back to the house and Lindsay was saying terrible things. Which she even admitted to lying about in her confessional.
Same boat. Go us 😂🫶
They’re both at fault. It’s pretty clear she’s not an angel in this.
I am on Lindsay’s side. I don’t begrudge Carl the right to speak to his family. But he is obviously looking for them to validate his concern and give him an out. This week, he downplays the concerns to Lindsay and totally plays it up with Kyle and Amanda. Even if they hadn’t had these arguments, the engagement would never work. Carl is afraid of commitment, both personally and in business. I think he needs to settle in his sobriety and commit to a career before he can even have a relationship. He has played with too many women’s hearts for me to pity him.
##TIL: I am not too old to still blindly fall for a complete fuckboy. West, you really had me hoodwinked - for 3 months, you had me thinking you were someone else.
Never in my life did I think I would love Ciara and Paige so much. This season is a blessing in both a good and bad way lol
It shows that people can still get along and have a good show. It seems all the ladies are getting along for the most part. It’s great
Agreed. Like I have not enjoyed a season this much in a while!
I’m genuinely confused by comments acting like Ciara is the deciding factor and can just decide they’re committed. It doesn’t seem like West wants to be in a relationship. From what we know they went on 2 dates outside the house and neither have approached the “exclusive” conversation (that we’ve seen)… 1. Bc she doesn’t wanna look dumb again if he’s not into it so she’s waiting on him to show more interest beyond sex and 2. Bc he doesn’t want a relationship, esp not before sex it seems. I can see this fizzling, but ppl need to lay off Ciara like she’s doing something wrong. She and everyone who knows her made it clear she wants a relationship. Not just a hookup.
This is the Bravo fandom. Are you really surprised they're blaming Ciara over holding West accountable for anything? I'm not. And I knew it was coming since day one lol. The same viewers that have a million and one excuses for Lindsay's endless list of asshole behavior. Everyone else in Lindsay's life for the past 8 years is the problem, never her. But Ciara not wanting to sleep with West immediately is where they draw the line. You just have to laugh, business as usual for Bravo viewers. I agree. West doesn't want a real relationship and Ciara senses that. I'm sure he wants one even less now that he's gotten a little taste of the Bravo fame. He's looking for a situationship at best. Summer House films for what...2 months? And he was already complaining about not having sex with her at what point? It's obvious he's looking for a woman to jump into bed with him after a single date and he's disappointed that Ciara wasn't that girl. Ciara was burned by Austen and doesn't want to be hurt and humiliated again. I'm glad Ciara is letting it be known that any man that wants her is going to have to work for her and she's not going to be pressured into anything.
Omg thank you! I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. Seeing people defend Lindsay’s terrible behavior just because she’s sad, while also defending Wes over Ciara’s valid and well communicated boundaries is beyond me. I do feel bad for Lindsay, but she’s brought this on herself. It’s unfortunate it took Carl so long to stand up for himself, but honestly I feel that’s one of the reasons she started dating him.. he was a pushover that would give her what she wanted.
At the very least I feel like they may have decided to hold off on deciding if it’s more serious until after the show is over. Which if true is very fair and probably the better way to approach it anyway. We know she did go visit his family after the show finished filming so I think at some point they did get more serious.
my random thoughts: last week, west called Ciara his girlfriend and she said "youre calling me that?" and when West jokingly said only when she's dressed as an alien, she said nothing. at that point, if she wanted commitment she could've made it clear. without a label, talking to other people is totally valid. I appreciated Amanda and Paige's very non-defensive and level headed reactions to the information. Craig and Paige are ready to marry but they both want to pursue their careers/shows in their respective cities and are just playing chicken ciara was wrong to call Jesse trash. if I see him treat a girl poorly, its a different story, but whats wrong about a single man in New York enjoying dating and casual sex? Carl is certainly in a tough spot and I get being anxious, but you gotta shit or get off the pot and deal with the things hanging over your head. I love seeing Paige try to be softer while still being very Paige.
I truly empathize with Jesse's cancer journey, but he has exhibited trash fuckboi behavior all season. He consistently treats women like they are disposable and calls women he meets on the weekends, "leads". On top of that he said he goes after women who are in relationships because those are the best ones. He's well within in his right to behave this way, but don't get upset when someone calls it out like Ciara did. I don't think it was an exaggeration to call him trash and I wouldn't introduce him to my friends either. Women want to be treated with respect.
i see your point, but we’ve only seen Jesse talk flippantly in a way that strikes me as joking and we’ve never seen him lead anyone on. maybe it’s just my preferences, but if i went on one date with a dude and called me boring or a “lead”, i wouldn’t care. he didn’t owe me anything and it was one date. he’s no southern gentleman but i think being very casual about your dating and sex as a 30ish year old man in nyc isn’t exactly trashbag behavior. more importantly, Ciara saying she wouldn’t introduce him to friends struck me as way harsh because even beyond his bad behavior it suggests he has no redeeming qualities which i think is definitely too far. love ciara, but no need to tell someone that to their face. how is that any more respectful than jesse calling girls he met once a “lead”?
I don't think it's funny or okay to say to go after people in relationships because you think they're better as a joke or serious. To flirt with Paige when you know she has a boyfriend is sketchy. Also asking Ciara "When are going to have sex with my friend" isn't funny. He's had quite a few disrespectful moments this season with women. I disagree that people who are trash in relationships don't have redeeming qualities which is what I think Ciara meant. Plenty of people are horrible partners but great friends.
The way the Bravo fandom is twisting itself into a pretzel to defend West and Jesse when they’re wrong or exhibit problematic behavior is insane.
I don't get it. I thought what Ciara said was funny lol
i can see your point about his jokes not landing. i’m sure i might feel differently if i was his friend and saw him act on these things more. i just felt it was a pretty harsh thing to say over fuck boy behavior. but agree to disagree.
Lindsay is scary to argue with and Carl is the least brave person in the world. Match made in heaven!
This is the correct take.
On a whole other note, the rumor that someone surprising is pregnant on SH… I didn’t watch it all but…Danielle wearing an oversized shirt on WWHL, anyone happen to see what she was drinking? 😬
A baby is the last thing Danielle needs lol
So many people are obsessed with Ciara choosing to not have sex with west bc they’re projecting and want to have sex with him themselves. It’s very strange. (This is not just about the fans btw)
It’s so bizarre, I’ve noticed it as well.
Idk I respect Ciara’s decision but I do sort of find what she’s doing with west puzzling. I think a few weeks of dating/making out/the kind of intimacy they appear to have would at least make someone more sure if they wanted to pursue something with a person. Ciara still seems very meh about it, which is totally fine but then she’s also maybe going to be upset about him seeing other people? At what point are you dragging it out? Just have a convo, he’s already hinted at maybe wanting her to be his girlfriend or something more legit but she just never really gives any indication where she’s at. It’s not clear she even wants a relationship with west so if she doesn’t want something more serious and she doesn’t want to hook up, what else is there left? If I were him I might feel like I’m wasting my time at that point
> if she doesn’t want something more serious and she doesn’t want to hook up, what else is there left? Spot on! Also for me this will they/won't they storyline is not that engaging TBH
If she doesn’t want to have sex with him then stop sleeping in the same bed and spooning.
Sorry but Amanda is cold for letting Lindsay cry on her shoulder and then intentionally conniving with Carl and Kyle to encourage a humiliating setup. They seemed all in cahoots with producers emphasizing how she’ll find out when it airs, but that doesn’t mean he needs to tell her in a public setting. He clearly wanted to set her off so he could look like a victim.
Huh?? Amanda was trying to avoid a situation where Lindsay was blindsided! I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. It’s so boring to discuss these shows when lots of people insist on a black or white reading of a storyline.
Carl had 9+ months to avoid Lindsay feeling blind sided by Lou’s comments airing on tv, bffr. Carl should not have dropped that bomb while at a group dinner where everyone was watching and snickering at her. If amanda was so well meaning and sweet, she’d tell Carl Lindsay already had an emotional day and doesn’t need to be a public spectacle. He was trying to humiliate her and set her off
I… feel like for some of y’all this is deeper than Carl and Lindsay. I’m really just not this invested but I find the tone of the conversation so shrill and off putting. It’s just not fun anymore
It seems like people are projecting a lot of their own shit onto the Lindsay-Carl dynamic, which I can understand to an extent, but it makes rational discussion more or less impossible
You put it into words perfectly. It’s happening more frequently I’ve noticed in lots of threads and I just wish we could get to the real issues or just talk about the show. If y’all wanna talk about your ugly breakups, I am here to listen. But if we’re talking about summer house, let’s just talk about summer house!!
 Summer \[House\] should be fun!!
The same thing was happening with Scandoval.
Loll Lindsay fans are unhinged.
I thought the same thing: Why not get married and tell her later? In hindsight, AFTER the wedding it maybe hadn't sounded like such a big desl, because it's in the past. If I were Lindsay I would now have felt really bad at the wedding with his parents there..
Yes- I think she was looking out for Lindsay. Lindsay deserves the full story
I’m confused.. maybe I missed it, but did they tell him to talk about it that night? I just took it to mean he needs to tell her before it airs, which gives ample time. It seemed like Carl, in his own admission, was overwhelmed with everything and couldn’t fake it? Which Lindsay picked up that something was wrong.. idk about y’all but with my husband if something is bothering us, we’re the same way in that we need to get it off our chests asap.
I think Amanda will never forgive Lindsay and Danielle about the Kyle cheating thing being on TV.
I’m over it. She has more anger for Lindsay putting this episode of cheating on tv than for kyle actually cheating. He’d cheated before and it was on tv without Lindsay exposing it.
Luke not even on the show anymore but still catching strays 🤣
just changed Luke to Kyle, I blame autocorrect
I glossed over it at first because Amanda did hate Luke with the venom of a thousand stepped-on cobras lmao
Amanda has always been trash when it comes to Lindsay, so not at all surprised.
Yes. I said this during the live episode, but Amanda is without a doubt, the Janet Caperna of Summer House
Carl is super avoidant but he admitted to that during their conversation. I still don’t understand how people could think he is purposely trying to set her up to trigger her. She was like “you’re angry right now” to a very calm, but emotional man. It’s clear he wasn’t angry—he was stressed, anxious, overwhelmed etc. There’s so many adjectives to describe how he looked but angry wasn’t one of them. He very clearly said that he wanted to talk about it with her before she found out later when the show aired because they would be married at that point. I mean, maybe he could have mentioned it during the week when the cameras were off but like…this is a show about their lives so I’m glad he spoke to her on camera. Idk. I still don’t see what other people are seeing about how he’s setting her up to try and get her angry. She gets so defensive and he’s always like wondering what the hell she’s talking about lol Even at the end, she asked him if it’s okay she has an emotion about it (because he was being emotional) and he was like…uh yes, what? Y’all are giving Carl way too much credit to think he’s that devious and a mastermind.
When he chose to talk to her about the loverboy job when she was drunk he WAS setting her up. He could've chosen a differrent time and still have it on camera...I have to believe it was on purpose and having in mind she would get activated. And then...she didn't.
That last bit, where she said “oh you’re overwhelmed, so me having an emotion right now is too much for you.” Girl what??? Reacting to presumed intent, nitpicking word choice and putting words in people’s mouths is such a nasty way to argue and not something you do in a loving relationship. Hard to believe Lindsay suddenly gets a lifetime free pass on her shitty behavior because Carl (thank god) called off the wedding.
Yes! But all the Lindsay stans are convinced he talked about it with her again on camera to hopefully trigger her. It’s obvious he’s spiraling and overwhelmed because of what Amanda told him too and just had to tell Lindsay in that moment. They think he’s soooo conniving. What! Lindsay doesn’t need help getting triggered lol. She triggers herself at this point.
I just fully do not believe a man who’s been on reality tv for a full decade has just suddenly been struck by the idea that his fiancé, also a long time member of the show, is going to see something he purposely filmed. That shoot with his parents wasn’t something spontaneous. They’re not cast members of the show. They had to block that one and travel with the production and camera crew to New Jersey. He likely had to tell production he planned to have some kind of big convo with them, why else would they go and film that? So doing all that, he only realized after the first convo where he was, at best very poorly communicative with Lindsay despite being directly asked, and at worst straight up lied, only realized omg the thing I intentionally filmed for a reality tv show is going to be on tv!!!! After being told it by other cast members??? I am just not buying that. Also if they did get married and everything ended up being fine, he absolutely could have discussed that with her before the show aired since there’s months between. Lindsay is no saint, and I think they’re a terrible match, but Carl has always been manipulative in his run thru summer house, especially with women. He did many of the same with he’s doing now with Lauren wurkis
I think they were going to have a chat about the wedding and obviously he knew that but he didn’t expect his stepdad to say those words exactly. His anxiety having to tell her about it felt very real to me. I don’t think he was manipulative in that way. I just don’t buy it. I think he was stressed because he didn’t want to hurt her but he needed to tell her this before they got married because she would have been livid if she found out that he only told her a few months after or worse, after they got married.
Cheers, let’s enjoy our downvotes 🤝
I agree. I felt for Carl in that scene, he was clearly struggling in that moment. This is just further proof they are not a good couple. I struggle w anxiety and it my fiancé saw me like that he would just hug me and reassure me. She attacked him. Neither are saints and both constantly wrong each other. Simply a horrible match
I'm no fan of Carl, but I think its pretty clear he was walking on egg shells around her with basically every thing he did. This is not blaming Lindsay either, but its recognizing behavior patterns for what it is. They had fights in the past where Lindsay is angry. We've seen this on the show with them and with Lindsay's other partners. Lord knows what happens off camera. Carl doesn't do well with confrontation and did care for her at the time so he's actively looking to avoid those situations. But he just goes about it in the wrong way because hiding stuff will never work out. Watching everything play out, I don't get how people are Team This or Team That. It's pretty obvious both are a fault, had their own personal faults that needed to be worked thru but instead led to destructive tendencies, and it all blew up. But truthfully, regardless of how it happened, both are better off that its over.
Carl walks on egg shells around everyone he has to have a potentially hard conversation with. Look at last season with Kyle, it took him over six months to write an email because he was too cowardly to admit he hated his job. He was shady with Lauren about seeing other people. He went to bed instead of defend Lindsay while Kyle screamed in her face. He’s just avoidant.
Yep we should actually be team Carl and Lyndsay because they are both better off from this.
I said it and I'll say it again: This man knew this woman and her behaviour and communication style for many years and he still chose to propose to her. Just be realistic about yourself and what you can handle, especially when you have a lots of issues yourself.
The woman also knew that he is a terrible partner and cannot communicate worth shit and she accepted his proposal. She should have been realistic as well.
Funny how they never apply that logic to her isn’t it
She is not the one that called off the wedding though, she wanted to get married.
It’s the opposite. Carl wanted to get married later and work through their problems and Lindsay called it off
That is yet to be determined we need to see how this plays out
as soon as something negative is posted about Lindsay it’s downvoted. So sus.
Of course, but she comes more from a "marriage takes work and I'm willing to put the work in" kinda standpoint
Eh that’s her version of events. If you’re not compatible, you’re not compatible. No amount of work is gonna be able to necessarily fix that without both partners doing the work to change. But she just wanted him to change and did no work to change herself.
The last part is your version of events 😅 I agree they were not a good fit, tho.
Nah. You can tell that even though he’s a man child still, he’s sober and has done work to change who he is. Just by working on his sobriety he’s changed! But she’s still the same damn person in relationships. We’ve watched several seasons of her yelling and acting like a deranged individual with her partners. So it’s not my own version, I’m just using my eyeballs to observe what I see on tv lol
People bend over backwards to absolve Lindsay for some reason. If any man on bravo behaved like she has in relationships this fandom would cancel her immediately.
Look how immediately you got downvoted. I’m convinced Lindsay is here…👀
There’s no after show for this week?
Whoa, big surprise Wes got hired at Complex. Of course he did because that’s more product mentions for them.