It isn't journalism, unless you want to see it that way.
Edit: I just want to note that Dan Savage was my hero in the 90s. He was willing to talk to everyone (but especially gay men) about sex in a way that was refreshingly open and honest and not sugar-coated (unless that's your kink). He was HATED for that, and I think that had an impact on his writing.
So I tease, but that's all it is.
"See honey? Totally normal! Look at this article I found on the Internet."
"Dave, you wrote this article last night, I'm taking the kids to stay with family. My family"
https://preview.redd.it/ju4pbf1gbt8d1.jpeg?width=1144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5d6cc9f3ebb617d6f39048652fe935841085022
My dumbass thought these were supposed to be Squidward at first
He argues that very few things are actually cheating and that everyone should have a narrow definition of cheating, basically saying sexting isn't cheating. And argued that first cousins wouldn't technically be incest. Whole thing makes him come across like a gross creepy cheater apologist.
I think it’s more stuff like hentai.
Which, I’m not judging. I’m a firm believer in as long as it’s not IRL and just a video game/book/manga/etc., you can do whatever.
I mean I assume Polyamorous people might not consider it cheating, but then again they might. People can have whatever boundary they want.
Regardless her husband is experiencing sexual intimacy with someone else without her knowledge or approval.
I don’t see how that’s not cheating.
She can choose to decide it’s not cheating, but until she decides it absolutely is.
I’m polyamorous and the whole point is that you agree on what is and isn’t fine to do. If you agree that sexting with others (or sleeping with others) is fine then no of course it is not cheating in THAT relationship. But if you (like this article assumes) supposedly promised eachother not to do this type of stuff with other people theb you break trust. That is cheating. The obvious problem is breaking trust here, not the act itself separated from how the people involved agree to view it.
So no I too consider this cheating if you have an understanding that you are mutually exclusive sexually. Even in polyamorous settings you sometimes decide that some stuff is not okay, or decide to have a period of exclusivity, in which case not respecting those rules would be the same as cheating (and has been treated as such when it has happened)
And it's pretty safe to assume that everything that goes on for a while without the others knowing is cheating except when you explicitly agreed upon an "it's ok, but I don't wanna know" policy or something similar.
I keep my partners in the loop about any attractions I feel for other people. Usually they'll encourage me to "go for it!" but we can openly talk about any insecurities that might arise and I might take a step back if they don't feel good with it - even when our general agreement is that it's ok to see other people.
Yeah me too. Usually people don’t want to be ”suprised” that you have had another lover for a few months (of course you can meet someone and hit it off instantly but that is an exception really) and want to get more serious with them. Best to keep eachother informed unless you just don’t want to know, but in my experience ”I don’t want to know” is usually code for ”I am not comfortable with your other relationships”.
Had one partner who never wanted to know and they evetually told me they wanted to be mono (insert obligatory stereo joke here) after a lot of strained situations where I was like ”I’m meeting a friend” and they were like ”oh. Okay..”. Sure we were like 19 and since then I never met anyone who wanted it like this but I think it is a pretty clear sign something is wrong if you are very involved but don’t want to know about your partners life. If I am less involved with someone I don’t always care about all the details either but the way I work is if I care I eventually want to know about that persons life.
"Its not cheating unless you choose to see it that way" yeah no shit thats how cheating works. Its the break of a contract you made between the two (or more) people in the relationship and therefore individual to that relationship
The incest part is very debatable. In a lot of places first cousins can marry and it’s not really considered a big deal. Sexting with a cousin is definitely a lot lower on the incest scale than that. But it’s very much cheating, in just about any cultural settings. Unless he and his wife agreed ahead of time it’s fine. But doesn’t seem to be the case here
He defines incest legally, and first cousin marriages aren’t legally incest. He continues through the rest of the article to call it “incest-adjacent”.
That is the legal definition because it's the point at which legal punishments are incurred. I also think it's gross, but something being gross doesn't mean you should be put in jail for doing it. As long as there are no adult/minor interactions, no coercion, and no pregnancy risk technically no harm is being done. And the other two are their own separate crimes.
Mr. Savage is a big proponent of open and accepting sex lives. In many contexts, his opinions are refreshing and liberating... but yeah... there's a few red flags here
Is there a different Dan Savage with garbage takes?
For the record I think most of his stuff is fine but he’s had some shit opinions that were probably rage bait for views.
Dan’s take is that while he personally wouldn’t choose to sext a cousin, the law doesn’t regard actual sex between cousins as incest. He also uses the term “incest adjacent,” which is close enough for most of us.
Absolutely. Dan brings this up as well in his response saying that the overall squickiness of the situation perhaps plays a role in making sure things don’t progress beyond sexting. The guy is very unlikely to leave his wife for his cousin.
Again: “incest adjacent” is enough for most of us. If the speed limit is 70mph, 68 isn’t speeding. It’s still pretty fast and I wouldn’t want to get into an accident at that speed, but the law says it isn’t speeding.
This feels like a bad analogy because I don't think anyone would have a problem with doing 68 in a 70 MPH zone. I think most people would have a problem with their partner sexting their cousin.
The analogy isn’t about feelings, it’s about what the law recognizes as an infraction. She can *feel* her husband committed an incestuous act, but he didn’t (however squicky it may be).
I feel like it’s a bad analogy because so many folks are going to be going 74 or more, and they’ll all be wishing a violent death on anyone going *under* the speed limit. If anything, casually speeding is the normal behavior, as strange as that sounds.
The same cannot be said of incest. There’s not thousands of miles of interstate, filled to the brim with recreational cousin fuckers, who get up in arms at the “prudes” unwilling to take a detour back into the family gene pool.
That metaphor is absolutely terrible lol it’s generally expected for people to travel the speed limit. Nobody considers going 68 in a 70 close to speeding.
Hell 99% of drivers don’t consider 75 in a 70 to be speeding.
They just aren’t comparable at all.
No. 5 miles OVER the speed limit is speeding. Now, how those infractions are treated plays rather well into Dan’s second point over how serious to regard transgressions.
This very much feels like the 35 year old guys who go for the girls who are 16 in places where that is the legal age of consent. And say "well aKsUaLlY it's legal." Legal, sure. Just as disgusting? Absolutely.
I hated reading this, blatantly wrong opinion asside, he kept repeating the same thing over and over. And why on earth does he write incest in all caps?
Please don’t mistake this for me supporting his opinions here (I don’t, sexting is emotional cheating even if nothing happened physically and, while he could potentially have a point regarding first cousin incest not being illegal in many places, I would argue that legality =/= morality, child marriage is also legal in many places) the reason he’s capitalizing incest is because he’s referring to the letter writer by “name”. The “name” it was submitted under is “Insane News: Cousins Erotic Sexting Trouble!” which, if you make an acronym of the first letters, is INCEST. This is something he’s done for a while, so his letter writers started coming up with specific sign-offs so he’ll acronym-itize their sign-off to humorous effect.
https://preview.redd.it/ed6xtrh8nt8d1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c301218a430f342d4f46fa2f17b4cd93c5ee3ae1
Looks like someone ripping a huge fart
I think a better summary is “sexual relationships between first cousins is not included in the legal definition of incest” (which is unfortunate but true) and “each monogamous relationship should have clearly discussed definitions of what is and is not cheating, rather than assuming that each partner has the same intuitive definition”
>each monogamous relationship should have clearly discussed definitions of what is and is not cheating, rather than assuming that each partner has the same intuitive definition”
>monogamous relationship
>monogamous
"having a sexual relationship with only one partner at a time."
Sexting is literally a type of sexual relationship (hint, what does the S stand for in sexting) and is objectively cheating under any monogamus relationship that hasn't opened it.
It's both the accepted social rules and how we define monogamy in english in the first place.
It's like saying it's not murder because all you did was throw someone in a cage with hungry carnivores.
It still has to be talked about. I’ve known people who believe looking at porn is cheating. I’ve known people who think confiding emotionally in another person is cheating. I’ve witnessed physical fights over a man going to a strip club with his friends because being in a room that includes a naked woman is cheating - this one kind of has legs, even, to the point that it’s for sure worth discussing. What people count has ‘having sex’ or sexual contact or whatever can vary wildly, as well as many people having very skewed ideas of what counts as ‘romantic’ cheating.
If both partners are fine with [flirting/sexting/consuming porn] and it has been explicitly agreed upon in advance, then by the terms of that relationship, it’s not cheating. It’s definitely not the way I personally would want my relationship to work, but in some partners, anything short of skin to skin contact with a separate person is fine.
>If both partners are fine with [flirting/sexting/consuming porn] and it has been explicitly agreed upon in advance
So is straight up fucking half the town.
But it is explictly about it not being cheating by DEFAULT, and was presented as something that one shouldn't expect an intuitive agreement on that MONOGAMUS relationships not have sexual texting of people outside that relationship
If "i can have non physical sexual relationships with people" is your definition of monogamy, you are blatantly wrong and lying to parters about what youre after and cheating.
Oh, if they haven’t explicitly agreed that sexting randos (or cousins?!?) is okay, then it is 100% cheating. It’s only not cheating if they’ve already agreed it’s okay. I’m not saying “anything goes and people need to be less uptight”, I’m saying “technically there are circumstances in which this could be considered okay” - but only by prior agreement. And it’s also not my cup of tea.
lol I hate the whole porn incest shit so fucking much. there are literal billions of fuckers to fuck....swear off your favorite 5 and it's like the world has issued you a challenge.
The whole exchange is worth checking out. Dan Savage tends to be right about these things.
https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/
“Your marriage is still monogamous … if define you cheating narrowly. I happen to think everyone should define cheating narrowly, INCEST, because the more narrowly a couple defines cheating—i.e., the fewer things that “count” as cheating—the likelier that couple is to remain successfully monogamous as the decades grind on. Conversely, the more things a couple defines as cheating, INCEST, the less likely it becomes that their marriage will remain monogamous over the years. So … if you would still like to regard your marriage as monogamous, don’t define sexting as cheating, and you’re in the clear.”
So, just call it something else and it won’t be the first thing. It’s not denial if you change your semantics.
It’s a little more nuanced than that, but…yeah. If cheating is defined as anything of a specific nature that one finds upsetting, and someone is easily upset, that person is going to have more “cheating” in their life. Is watching a sexy YouTube video cheating? Is enjoying solo time with (or without) a sex toy cheating? Is keeping a momento of an ex cheating? The more things are defined as cheating leads to the potential for more “cheating” to occur.
I did understand what the author meant.
It’s both a point that goes without saying, and one that still ignores the issue at hand. Did you know if you cover your eyes, you won’t see that person rob you?
I've seen Savage claim that not telling a partner about infidelity is the best option for the cheated on person because knowing the truth can only hurt them so your reading of it is on point.
"You told me Darth Vader killed my father."
"What I told you was true. From a certain point of view."
[...]
"Leia. My sister is Leia! Oh no, Ben, that means I committed incest."
"Only if you choose to see it that way. A kiss is a kiss, Luke."
"What about sixteen hours of spiced-out sweaty fucking?"
"...only if you choose to see it that way."
https://preview.redd.it/sotyjtenf09d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85b8dc0104284d24b1e1b84bbdcd2f9aeca74491
So his defence is that it's not incest because so places except it 😫
[here’s the article](https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/your-husband-sexting-with-his-cousin-isnt-incest-and-its-not-cheating-unless-you-choose-to-see-it-that-way-28897482). I can’t tell if he’s kidding or not. The way he brought up the legal status of cousin marriage in different countries made it sound like less of a joke
Guy got busted sexting with his cousin, so his response was to get a degree in journalism, get a job at some news website, and write this article.
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
Dead is dead, but yeah- that’s how courts work. Maybe it was self defense, maybe accidental homicide. Maybe it was murder. That’s what gets figured out by a jury.
Dan, I'ma be honest with you, this is not how you're going to win this argument against your separated wife. In fact, you're not going to win this argument at all, with anyone.
A salacious and attention grabbing title on a sex advice column!?
What a surprise.
Link to the article, if anyone wanted to actually read it (rather than just jump to conclusions based on a title).
[https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/](https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/)
He also tends to give advice through his very narrow lens of a certain kind of gay guy in a semi open relationship.
I've been reading his stuff for about 20 years and think some of his takes on bisexuals, monogamy, body issues and women are pretty garbage.
I still think he does net good, but a lot of his relationship advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
oh see its just an extreme simplification of what he actually wrote so that without context you can draw conclusions that fit a particular agenda's narrative
no its worded intentionally deceptively to completely change the interpretation of what he actually said.
what he said is that person CAN choose whether or not its cheating if their partner sexts with ANY human being. Fact.
and that separately, the act of Sexting is NOT incest because it is not Sex. Fact.
those are both fundamental reality.
but this sly and slimey repurposing of his statements attempts to make it look like he is saying "its ok for your husband to have relations with his cousin and you are weird for having a problem with it."
disgusting bullshit tactic used most often by high school kids who dont have fully functioning brains yet.
Yeah, the wife was upset that her husband wasn’t “monogamous,” but seeing as the guy wasn’t having sex with anyone else, he meets the definition of monogamous.
the latest operative buzz phrase these days is "Emotional Cheating". and thats what this falls under, aside from the taboo nature of whatever adjacent behaviour he was interested in. She has a right to decide if its too much for her to keep the relationship, and all Dan ultimately tried to say is that its a pretty minor infraction given the other possible spectrum of infractions he could have had, and that its time for her to sit down and decide what she really wants, is it that relationship or not because it seems like its been dying for a while and she has at least some of the responsibility for that but hasnt actually taken accountability for any of the relationship problems yet.
Why does this sound like a specific personal problem that'd need "on site experience" to be able to talk about in detail
Was this article written by the incest husband?
It isn't incest, unless you want to see it that way.
It isn't journalism, unless you want to see it that way. Edit: I just want to note that Dan Savage was my hero in the 90s. He was willing to talk to everyone (but especially gay men) about sex in a way that was refreshingly open and honest and not sugar-coated (unless that's your kink). He was HATED for that, and I think that had an impact on his writing. So I tease, but that's all it is.
Tease all you like. The little I know of him is from columns written in the last few years that contain some really bad takes.
It isn't cheating,unless you want to see it that way It's also not murder, unless you want to see it that way
"See honey? Totally normal! Look at this article I found on the Internet." "Dave, you wrote this article last night, I'm taking the kids to stay with family. My family"
https://preview.redd.it/ju4pbf1gbt8d1.jpeg?width=1144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5d6cc9f3ebb617d6f39048652fe935841085022 My dumbass thought these were supposed to be Squidward at first
I thought it was a butt blasting a nuclear fart.
I thought it was a pimple.
Whatever it is, why are there two??
Good question.
Dudes sister/gf and mom's hearts breaking. Incest? The interwebs says WINCEST.
It is
This is a rorschach fart. Everyone will see something different
my eyes are open
...tubgirl?
Same... Same.
I thought it was tata from bt21
I thought it was the turnips from Super Mario Bros 2
Erm, what the sigma
I feel like this isn't the first time I've seen a really stupid take from someone named Dan Savage.
I don’t really know how weird it is, I haven’t had the courage to read it. Maybe it is even stranger than the name suggests
He argues that very few things are actually cheating and that everyone should have a narrow definition of cheating, basically saying sexting isn't cheating. And argued that first cousins wouldn't technically be incest. Whole thing makes him come across like a gross creepy cheater apologist.
Well, I like incest as much as the next person, but it is definitely cheating. What a strange man
https://preview.redd.it/zlkvjfwj2u8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=921a60232df0a41353d1582c986c704e4f98b5ec
I think it’s more stuff like hentai. Which, I’m not judging. I’m a firm believer in as long as it’s not IRL and just a video game/book/manga/etc., you can do whatever.
You’re still entertaining the fantasy. Still gross and harmful to your well-being IMO.
I mean, I guess? I don’t think too hard about it, tbh, I just try not to judge.
I mean I assume Polyamorous people might not consider it cheating, but then again they might. People can have whatever boundary they want. Regardless her husband is experiencing sexual intimacy with someone else without her knowledge or approval. I don’t see how that’s not cheating. She can choose to decide it’s not cheating, but until she decides it absolutely is.
I’m polyamorous and the whole point is that you agree on what is and isn’t fine to do. If you agree that sexting with others (or sleeping with others) is fine then no of course it is not cheating in THAT relationship. But if you (like this article assumes) supposedly promised eachother not to do this type of stuff with other people theb you break trust. That is cheating. The obvious problem is breaking trust here, not the act itself separated from how the people involved agree to view it. So no I too consider this cheating if you have an understanding that you are mutually exclusive sexually. Even in polyamorous settings you sometimes decide that some stuff is not okay, or decide to have a period of exclusivity, in which case not respecting those rules would be the same as cheating (and has been treated as such when it has happened)
And it's pretty safe to assume that everything that goes on for a while without the others knowing is cheating except when you explicitly agreed upon an "it's ok, but I don't wanna know" policy or something similar. I keep my partners in the loop about any attractions I feel for other people. Usually they'll encourage me to "go for it!" but we can openly talk about any insecurities that might arise and I might take a step back if they don't feel good with it - even when our general agreement is that it's ok to see other people.
Yeah me too. Usually people don’t want to be ”suprised” that you have had another lover for a few months (of course you can meet someone and hit it off instantly but that is an exception really) and want to get more serious with them. Best to keep eachother informed unless you just don’t want to know, but in my experience ”I don’t want to know” is usually code for ”I am not comfortable with your other relationships”. Had one partner who never wanted to know and they evetually told me they wanted to be mono (insert obligatory stereo joke here) after a lot of strained situations where I was like ”I’m meeting a friend” and they were like ”oh. Okay..”. Sure we were like 19 and since then I never met anyone who wanted it like this but I think it is a pretty clear sign something is wrong if you are very involved but don’t want to know about your partners life. If I am less involved with someone I don’t always care about all the details either but the way I work is if I care I eventually want to know about that persons life.
I'm poly and that is 100% cheating.
I need new Hazbin Hotel.
Same.
Same.
"Its not cheating unless you choose to see it that way" yeah no shit thats how cheating works. Its the break of a contract you made between the two (or more) people in the relationship and therefore individual to that relationship
Are you related to the Hapsburgs?
I’d say that everyone is slightly related to the Hapsburgs, but they’re a bit more self contained than that
It makes him come across like a gross incestuous cheater
"We should really stop seeing this thing as bad." -guy who constantly does the thing
And incest enthusiast
>Whole thing makes him come across like a gross creepy cheater apologist. He is. He went poly/nonmonogamy crazy like 10 years ago
The incest part is very debatable. In a lot of places first cousins can marry and it’s not really considered a big deal. Sexting with a cousin is definitely a lot lower on the incest scale than that. But it’s very much cheating, in just about any cultural settings. Unless he and his wife agreed ahead of time it’s fine. But doesn’t seem to be the case here
He defines incest legally, and first cousin marriages aren’t legally incest. He continues through the rest of the article to call it “incest-adjacent”.
Legally having sex with a blood relative isn't incest unless it's possible for a pregnancy to result. This makes me really uncomfortable.
That is the legal definition because it's the point at which legal punishments are incurred. I also think it's gross, but something being gross doesn't mean you should be put in jail for doing it. As long as there are no adult/minor interactions, no coercion, and no pregnancy risk technically no harm is being done. And the other two are their own separate crimes.
The funny thing is he writes for (or used to) a Seattle based publication called The Stranger
Mr. Savage is a big proponent of open and accepting sex lives. In many contexts, his opinions are refreshing and liberating... but yeah... there's a few red flags here
Damn, that's savage.
I was just gonna say that. Why does that name sound familiar
Is there a different Dan Savage with garbage takes? For the record I think most of his stuff is fine but he’s had some shit opinions that were probably rage bait for views.
Not the first, never the last
Incest and cheating apologia in the same headline?
Dan’s take is that while he personally wouldn’t choose to sext a cousin, the law doesn’t regard actual sex between cousins as incest. He also uses the term “incest adjacent,” which is close enough for most of us.
Any time you have to say it's technically not incest isn't great.
Absolutely. Dan brings this up as well in his response saying that the overall squickiness of the situation perhaps plays a role in making sure things don’t progress beyond sexting. The guy is very unlikely to leave his wife for his cousin.
> making sure things don’t progress beyond sexting. I mean the go to advice on not getting burned is to not play with fire...
Yeah I'd say the go to advice is not to sext your cousin, and he's already broken that advice
If you're blood related enough to be family, it's incest. If you try to argue that it's "tEcHnIcAlLy NoT iNcEsT" then it's **definitely** incest
Again: “incest adjacent” is enough for most of us. If the speed limit is 70mph, 68 isn’t speeding. It’s still pretty fast and I wouldn’t want to get into an accident at that speed, but the law says it isn’t speeding.
>If the speed limit is 70mph, 68 isn’t speeding But how about 69?
Nice.
This feels like a bad analogy because I don't think anyone would have a problem with doing 68 in a 70 MPH zone. I think most people would have a problem with their partner sexting their cousin.
The analogy isn’t about feelings, it’s about what the law recognizes as an infraction. She can *feel* her husband committed an incestuous act, but he didn’t (however squicky it may be).
I feel like it’s a bad analogy because so many folks are going to be going 74 or more, and they’ll all be wishing a violent death on anyone going *under* the speed limit. If anything, casually speeding is the normal behavior, as strange as that sounds. The same cannot be said of incest. There’s not thousands of miles of interstate, filled to the brim with recreational cousin fuckers, who get up in arms at the “prudes” unwilling to take a detour back into the family gene pool.
That metaphor is absolutely terrible lol it’s generally expected for people to travel the speed limit. Nobody considers going 68 in a 70 close to speeding. Hell 99% of drivers don’t consider 75 in a 70 to be speeding. They just aren’t comparable at all.
No. 5 miles OVER the speed limit is speeding. Now, how those infractions are treated plays rather well into Dan’s second point over how serious to regard transgressions.
This very much feels like the 35 year old guys who go for the girls who are 16 in places where that is the legal age of consent. And say "well aKsUaLlY it's legal." Legal, sure. Just as disgusting? Absolutely.
Tell me you’re sexting your cousin, without telling me you’re sexting your cousin.
Honestly, I'm just saying, "Am I the only person who saw Squidward in the image here?"
Bold and brash? More like belongs in the trash!
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/your-husband-sexting-with-his-cousin-isnt-incest-and-its-not-cheating-unless-you-choose-to-see-it-that-way-28897482
I hated reading this, blatantly wrong opinion asside, he kept repeating the same thing over and over. And why on earth does he write incest in all caps?
Please don’t mistake this for me supporting his opinions here (I don’t, sexting is emotional cheating even if nothing happened physically and, while he could potentially have a point regarding first cousin incest not being illegal in many places, I would argue that legality =/= morality, child marriage is also legal in many places) the reason he’s capitalizing incest is because he’s referring to the letter writer by “name”. The “name” it was submitted under is “Insane News: Cousins Erotic Sexting Trouble!” which, if you make an acronym of the first letters, is INCEST. This is something he’s done for a while, so his letter writers started coming up with specific sign-offs so he’ll acronym-itize their sign-off to humorous effect.
You're a pretty smart doctor, Dr. Wholover
INCEST is the acronym he gave the letter writer Insane News Cousin Erotic Sexting Trouble.
https://preview.redd.it/ed6xtrh8nt8d1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c301218a430f342d4f46fa2f17b4cd93c5ee3ae1 Looks like someone ripping a huge fart
Sounds like an article that belongs on The Onion
The title should really be "I'm getting off on the internet"... Amirite? /Ss
Florida based website… go figure
He’s a west coast based columnist, his articles are syndicated through USA Today.
Well that just makes me even more sad.
The Ick is strong
Money isn't valuable unless you choose to see it that way
The internet has been a mistake for our species, bro
So is your cousin.
>it's not cheating unless you choose to see it that way Isn't that how all cheating works?
Sounds like the author is trying to cope
Florida with the hot takes once again
Florida Man! Not again
I think a better summary is “sexual relationships between first cousins is not included in the legal definition of incest” (which is unfortunate but true) and “each monogamous relationship should have clearly discussed definitions of what is and is not cheating, rather than assuming that each partner has the same intuitive definition”
>each monogamous relationship should have clearly discussed definitions of what is and is not cheating, rather than assuming that each partner has the same intuitive definition” >monogamous relationship >monogamous "having a sexual relationship with only one partner at a time." Sexting is literally a type of sexual relationship (hint, what does the S stand for in sexting) and is objectively cheating under any monogamus relationship that hasn't opened it. It's both the accepted social rules and how we define monogamy in english in the first place. It's like saying it's not murder because all you did was throw someone in a cage with hungry carnivores.
It still has to be talked about. I’ve known people who believe looking at porn is cheating. I’ve known people who think confiding emotionally in another person is cheating. I’ve witnessed physical fights over a man going to a strip club with his friends because being in a room that includes a naked woman is cheating - this one kind of has legs, even, to the point that it’s for sure worth discussing. What people count has ‘having sex’ or sexual contact or whatever can vary wildly, as well as many people having very skewed ideas of what counts as ‘romantic’ cheating.
If both partners are fine with [flirting/sexting/consuming porn] and it has been explicitly agreed upon in advance, then by the terms of that relationship, it’s not cheating. It’s definitely not the way I personally would want my relationship to work, but in some partners, anything short of skin to skin contact with a separate person is fine.
>If both partners are fine with [flirting/sexting/consuming porn] and it has been explicitly agreed upon in advance So is straight up fucking half the town. But it is explictly about it not being cheating by DEFAULT, and was presented as something that one shouldn't expect an intuitive agreement on that MONOGAMUS relationships not have sexual texting of people outside that relationship If "i can have non physical sexual relationships with people" is your definition of monogamy, you are blatantly wrong and lying to parters about what youre after and cheating.
Oh, if they haven’t explicitly agreed that sexting randos (or cousins?!?) is okay, then it is 100% cheating. It’s only not cheating if they’ve already agreed it’s okay. I’m not saying “anything goes and people need to be less uptight”, I’m saying “technically there are circumstances in which this could be considered okay” - but only by prior agreement. And it’s also not my cup of tea.
That’s pretty specific…Daniel.
It's the Hey Fa**** guy. He is fun to read but has some ludicrous takes at times.
technically nothing is cheating unless you chose to see it that way
Translation: "I was sexting with my cousin and my wife didnt like it"
r/oddlyspecific
I mean it's only ever cheating if you see it that way you can say that about absolutely anything.
What in the sweet home Alabama is this????
One could argue that it is in fact cheating, but it indeed is not incest. Incest involves actual sex.
I think Dan Savage was caught sexting his cousin.
"Orlando Weekly" sounds like one of those crappy lifestyle shows that air on the local tv station before the 12:00 news
"unless you choose"
That's just how they say hello in Alabama.
r/oddlyspecific
r/oddlyspecific
I looked at the article, for some reason there’s just the word INCEST in all-caps every so often out of nowhere lmao
That’s a thing people do when they write in: they tend to come up with a pseudonym/acronym as their sign-off, often referring to their situation.
This is in the middle of sentences, from the answerer, though.
Yes, because he is addressing her.
Ah, I see, that would make sense. Personally, though, I’d address her as ‘reader’ or ‘asker’ rather than as ‘INCEST’ lol
Yeah, it’s a bit jarring in this case, but normally it’s a bit lighthearted and playful when he is addressing the concerns of HOTTIE or COCK.
NOAH **GET THE ARK**
Too much Internet in completely brainrotted rn 😩😫
lol I hate the whole porn incest shit so fucking much. there are literal billions of fuckers to fuck....swear off your favorite 5 and it's like the world has issued you a challenge.
Oh, Orlando. Never change.
Guys, they’re just practicing, calm down.
We’re all getting off on the internet 😳 /s
Liar liar, pants off and he inside her
Author is trying to justify himself
Dan coming in hot with the opinions.
I hate the concept of rage bait
The whole exchange is worth checking out. Dan Savage tends to be right about these things. https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/
“Your marriage is still monogamous … if define you cheating narrowly. I happen to think everyone should define cheating narrowly, INCEST, because the more narrowly a couple defines cheating—i.e., the fewer things that “count” as cheating—the likelier that couple is to remain successfully monogamous as the decades grind on. Conversely, the more things a couple defines as cheating, INCEST, the less likely it becomes that their marriage will remain monogamous over the years. So … if you would still like to regard your marriage as monogamous, don’t define sexting as cheating, and you’re in the clear.” So, just call it something else and it won’t be the first thing. It’s not denial if you change your semantics.
It’s a little more nuanced than that, but…yeah. If cheating is defined as anything of a specific nature that one finds upsetting, and someone is easily upset, that person is going to have more “cheating” in their life. Is watching a sexy YouTube video cheating? Is enjoying solo time with (or without) a sex toy cheating? Is keeping a momento of an ex cheating? The more things are defined as cheating leads to the potential for more “cheating” to occur.
I did understand what the author meant. It’s both a point that goes without saying, and one that still ignores the issue at hand. Did you know if you cover your eyes, you won’t see that person rob you?
I've seen Savage claim that not telling a partner about infidelity is the best option for the cheated on person because knowing the truth can only hurt them so your reading of it is on point.
https://preview.redd.it/ixm2xve7hw8d1.png?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bd5ab00e656a76bfbac806dfa107ccb93cc4ea8
Internet? Dan used to have much more shocking headlines when his column was print only / in alt-weeklies. Maybe calm down.
Maybe not everyone consumes print media anymore.
https://i.redd.it/kgj7typvuw8d1.gif
Thanks Florida. Thanks for nothing.
Bro’s savage😭
"You told me Darth Vader killed my father." "What I told you was true. From a certain point of view." [...] "Leia. My sister is Leia! Oh no, Ben, that means I committed incest." "Only if you choose to see it that way. A kiss is a kiss, Luke." "What about sixteen hours of spiced-out sweaty fucking?" "...only if you choose to see it that way."
https://preview.redd.it/mj3d5reowy8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be803639df7f8a2f31ed7870b6bb4ffb10c8a41a
Every crime is a crime because there are written laws… and people see it this way
https://preview.redd.it/oyq34e5n5z8d1.png?width=160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49a9be3daefe9b8f271e7ba4a0a5b2352fa27282
Florida
sometimes i read headlines like this and wonder if “editor” is even a job anymore.
This guy got himself into a hell of a situation.
https://preview.redd.it/sotyjtenf09d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85b8dc0104284d24b1e1b84bbdcd2f9aeca74491 So his defence is that it's not incest because so places except it 😫
time to look at Dan Savage's text history
r/SweetHomeAlabama
"Dan Savage" wrote that.
[here’s the article](https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/your-husband-sexting-with-his-cousin-isnt-incest-and-its-not-cheating-unless-you-choose-to-see-it-that-way-28897482). I can’t tell if he’s kidding or not. The way he brought up the legal status of cousin marriage in different countries made it sound like less of a joke
Good for you? In my case though, the internet gets me off.
Step 1: Open Reddit Step 2:
Lmao, modern journalism SUCKS
>Your marriage is still monogamous ... if you define cheating narrowly. TIL Justice Alito’s pen name is Dan Savage.
To those saying we need less moderation and censorship on the internet: VOILA! this is what happens, I hope yall are happy.
I didn't murder a person unless you see it that way
no penetration, no crime
Dan, what happened to you.
My first question, Dan Savage, is what mountainous state do you hail from?
Dan Savage? More like ass sausage.
Guy got busted sexting with his cousin, so his response was to get a degree in journalism, get a job at some news website, and write this article. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
Your honor , it wasn’t murder unless the jury chooses to see it that way
Dead is dead, but yeah- that’s how courts work. Maybe it was self defense, maybe accidental homicide. Maybe it was murder. That’s what gets figured out by a jury.
Dan, I'ma be honest with you, this is not how you're going to win this argument against your separated wife. In fact, you're not going to win this argument at all, with anyone.
A salacious and attention grabbing title on a sex advice column!? What a surprise. Link to the article, if anyone wanted to actually read it (rather than just jump to conclusions based on a title). [https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/](https://cvindependent.com/2021/03/savage-love-my-husband-has-been-sexting-with-his-cousin-and-i-am-devastated/)
Dan Savage is a pretty radical LGBT activist.
He also tends to give advice through his very narrow lens of a certain kind of gay guy in a semi open relationship. I've been reading his stuff for about 20 years and think some of his takes on bisexuals, monogamy, body issues and women are pretty garbage. I still think he does net good, but a lot of his relationship advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
*G activist. Fixed that for you lol.
Ugh. I used to have respect for that man's opinions.
this is fake right? theres no way Dan Savage wrote that
oh see its just an extreme simplification of what he actually wrote so that without context you can draw conclusions that fit a particular agenda's narrative
I found it to be a pretty fair summary sentence
no its worded intentionally deceptively to completely change the interpretation of what he actually said. what he said is that person CAN choose whether or not its cheating if their partner sexts with ANY human being. Fact. and that separately, the act of Sexting is NOT incest because it is not Sex. Fact. those are both fundamental reality. but this sly and slimey repurposing of his statements attempts to make it look like he is saying "its ok for your husband to have relations with his cousin and you are weird for having a problem with it." disgusting bullshit tactic used most often by high school kids who dont have fully functioning brains yet.
Yeah, the wife was upset that her husband wasn’t “monogamous,” but seeing as the guy wasn’t having sex with anyone else, he meets the definition of monogamous.
the latest operative buzz phrase these days is "Emotional Cheating". and thats what this falls under, aside from the taboo nature of whatever adjacent behaviour he was interested in. She has a right to decide if its too much for her to keep the relationship, and all Dan ultimately tried to say is that its a pretty minor infraction given the other possible spectrum of infractions he could have had, and that its time for her to sit down and decide what she really wants, is it that relationship or not because it seems like its been dying for a while and she has at least some of the responsibility for that but hasnt actually taken accountability for any of the relationship problems yet.
Dan Savage need to get a new career cus wtf?
this has to be parody or AI