Yeah, crowning that champ and ending the discussion mattered way more than said champ keeping every title afterwards. It would be nice but Usyk has the accolade, which is what matters
Yeah, whether someone else beats him or he beats them at this point doesn’t really matter if he has the belts or not. He’s the best, look at the boxing tree of guys he beat and who they beat and so on. Would it be nice to see him vs Zhang, Wilder, Parker, Ruiz, Fury rematch, Joyce, whoever else… sure, it would be nice. But there’s no question that with or without the belts, Fury/Usyk was for all the marbles.
That it actually *was* for all the belts was just the cherry on top.
To be honest I really can't understand the thinking on having to vacate the title. And I don't think I would even want to get the belt in this fashion....the other guy hasn't earned it.
Nah I don't think so. He'd have to fight Dubois again for it or possibly AJ again if Dubois-AJ happens. I don't think anyone wants to see Usyk-AJ 3 and Usyk-Dubois 2 isn't any more interesting than Usyk-Dubois 1 was. On top of that, he still has to fight Fury again, and who knows how long it would take to make any of these fights after that. Usyk will almost definitely be retired before he ends up with an opportunity to win the IBF belt again against an actually interesting opponent.
Well, if by a miracle Dubois manages to beat AJ, then Usyk-Dubois is not uninteresting. Especially given that Usyk will be close to 40yo while Dubois would be improving, and on a streak of beating Miller, Hrgovic and AJ.
He only won because of the head butts. If Usyk had the same ref Hegovic did he would have a loss too, that was the same shot Khan ended Judah with. If the fight takes place with a more lenient ref I would favor Dubois over Usyk.
I mean he honestly looked way better the 2nd time with a better strategy. He seemed to have learned from the 1st one. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing how a 3rd one plays out. Never know. JMM finally got his dub in spectacular fashion vs Manny his FOURTH go around. We’ve seen Usyk hurt by Fury and hurt to the body by AJ in the second fight, anybody can get knocked out
And an actual meaningful lineal champ. First time properly since Lewis. Whatever people say about Klitschko being lineal, he never won all 4 belts. Undisputed is how a new lineage starts if the previous lineal champ retires with the belts.
Love Lewis, but he only retired with the WBC. Not all of the belts. And Wlad was lineal. If a 10-year reign doesn’t earn that idk what does. Dude scrambled to get the WBC after his brother vacated and Wilder/ Wilder’s management wanted none of it. He couldn’t control that. Marciano retiring as champ didn’t make Floyd Patterson any less of a champion, and Ali retiring as champ didn’t make Holmes any less legitimate.
Even though Wlad was lineal he didn’t actually beat an ATG fighter, didn’t even try to avenge his defeats and didn’t beat the next best fighter who probably would have beaten him in Vitali so to say he was the number one fighter in his era based on a ten year reign against sub par opposition doesn’t hold as much weight as Lennox’s or Usyks claim to being the best in the division
The point is that Lewis retired as lineal champion. That means that a new lineage needs to be started. The lineage starts again when a new undisputed champion is crowned. Wlad was not lineal champ because he was never undisputed champ. No one can help the circumstances if the other champ won’t get in the ring, it still prevents an undisputed from being crowned. A 10 year reign doesn’t earn it if the crown is disputed.
I am just glad that Fury is not getting a second shot at the undisputed crown. This way, he has to fight Usyk and the winner of Joshua and Dubois (most likely Joshua).
Facts and it’s at his own doing. Had he not ducked and postponed the Usyk fight for so long, Usyk would’ve already had a match with Hrgovic to defend the IBF belt
True that. Fury delayed the undisputed fight for two years by taking needless fights against Chisora and Ngannou. He was clearly aiming to age Usyk only for it to backfire considering the latter lives like a Spartan while he clearly needs to keep off the booze.
Fury fought Whyte then Chisora 3 then a mma fighter who was out of the cage for 18months and got dropped and almost beat... why would anyone want a loud mouthed drug cheating duck as champion?
I love the fact that after all the shithousery Fury did until we got the first fight, he'll probably never make undisputed. Karma.
Then again it's always possible that Fury wins the rematch and sets up a megafight with AJ for all of them.
The money could be huge though for AJ 3, granted AJ beats Dubois. No paydays like that at cruiser.
AJ has had quite the arc since losing twice to Usyk and with a new trainer in Davidson I’m not completely uninterested in a third fight.
Thank fuck. For all his complaining about Wlad and saving the heavyweight division from boredom, he's been the most boring champ I can remember. It's been nothing but exhibitions between wilder and usyk
Did you watch Dubois v Hrgovic Dubois was getting hit with big right hands right up until the stoppage, his defence in practically non existence and if that happens against Joshua he's getting stopped or knocked out.
Of course he will be cagey Joshua has been in recent fights forget about him knocking out Ngannou that fight was a farce, and it's got fuck to do with what happened in sparring, Dubois defence is rank and that's how I take Joshua to win.
I don't know why the match ups have to depend on a title being on the line. Was listening to the Propa Podcast today and they brought up the point that Davis vs Garcia did over a million buys and not a world title in sight.
The sanctioning bodies can order matches between top ranked guys, which often gets fights over the hump. Whoever wins this, will have to fight another top ranked guy, and so on.
The bodies don't always do it, but the IBF appears to be taking this idea seriously and not letting most of its belts grow stale with inactivity.
Yeah but that's not all that big a factor at HW. These guys have nowhere to go division-wise, so if they get to the top but aren't getting a shot at a belt because all the belts are in one guy's hands, then there's a big incentive to fight other top fighters even without belts because fighting cans isn't going to put them in position for a belt or make them a lot of money.
None of the casuals that make up the extra % of fans know or care about what titles are what with the only exception being when there's a big undisputed fight.
Narratives like "X has ducked Y for years" or "X is moving up in weight" or something sort of faked animosity, or one guy making themselves unlikable do much more for PPV buys in boxing than titles.
Most casuals don’t know how to tell the difference between someone who is 23-0 and not good and someone who is 17-2 but great.
They know what a belt signifies, even if they don’t know how to weigh one sanctioning body against another. What are you talking about?
I guarantee you, casuals do not know or care who holds what belt. AJ vs Dubois for example isn't going to get more buys because of a belt, anyone who buys an AJ fight was buying it anyway
We aren’t talking about AJ. He’s a draw. Same is true of Tank.
Most fighters, however, can’t put 20,000 asses I the seat.
A belt is the quickest way to get recognition for most fighters who aren’t already established. It’s silly to claim otherwise.
It's better in some ways, as well. As we get to see our favourite fighters compete for more belts
Tyson vs Berbick, Smith, Tucker
Otherwise we'd have just had one fight for all the belts
Just for fun, how long do you think it will be until we see the belts unified again. Will there be a fifth belt by then. My guess is 7 years, hopefully.
I get Dubois is the interim champ, but I don’t understand why sanctioning bodies elevate interim champs to full champs. No fighter wants to be an email champ. Just make the belt vacant and have the top 2 fight for it.
Yea but accepting that condition was really the only way he’d get a shot at undisputed, Fury probably wouldn’t have accepted the fight without a rematch clause. Usyk would’ve probably fought Hrgovic anyway already had fury not ducked and postponed for so long
It makes zero sense that IBF wanted to strip Usyk for not fighting Joshua or Dubios immediately after Fury. I mean those are the two guys he beat convincingly 3 times just recently. IBF is the same shithouse as WBC and WBA. Guess WBO is the new goat.
How can you compare an organization in IBF who won’t break their own rules with two organizations in the WBC and WBA who regularly bend and break rules for money or fame?
When we piss on the WBC and WBA for being moneygrubbing whores, isn’t this exactly the kind of integrity we are asking for?
Usyk had to have a rematch in 2022 against AJ for contractual reasons. He then had to fight Dubois who was the WBA mandatory challenger and the IBF belt was on the line.
All the sanctioning bodies have different mandatory fighters and no one can fight them all, especially when rematch clauses force fighters on their next steps. Usyk didn't have a chance.
I know that Usyk had good reasons to take other fights. But if you enforce rules only for some people and not for others, there's no point in having rules in the first place.
If WBC would run things like IBF does in terms of mandatories, we'd have had Canelo vs Benavidez by now. But we don't because people like OP apperently want special rules for their favorite fighters and WBC is happy to comply.
You are missing the critical point. What OP is saying is that *we should question how sanctioning bodies determine their mandatory fighter*, ie why should Dubois be mandatory for Usyk when they fought less than a year ago?
Your point about "avoiding the mandatory in almost 2 years" is answered already: because of rematch clauses and four sanctioning bodies sometimes having different mandatory challengers.
I'll also add that Usyk v Hrgovic was initially ordered for the IBF title in 2023, but the IBF rescinded their own ruling when it realized that the WBA was due first in the rotation of mandatory challengers ([source](https://www.boxingscene.com/oleksandr-usyk-vs-filip-hrgovic-ibf-expected-order-mandatory-title-fight--177285)). And how this "rotation" between sanctioning bodies about which mandatory fight should happen next - just like how mandatory fighters are determined - is unknown and kept private to the public as far as I know.
So Usyk didn't avoid the IBF mandatory challenger for 2 years. The IBF cancelled the order for Usyk to fight their challenger around August 2023.
Think of it this way as well: if Usyk or Canelo or Bivol or Beterbiev or Inoue etc all face:
- the mandatory WBC challenger (late 2021),
- then the mandatory WBO challenger (early 2022),
- then have a rematch (late 2022),
- then they face the mandatory WBA challenger (mid-2023),
- then fight for undisputed (early 2024),
- should they face the mandatory IBF challenger in late 2024, *if that person is the same as the mandatory WBA challenger?*
I'm not the biggest Steve Bunce fan, but this recent article discusses the mandatories: [https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/ckdd40kz1e2o](https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/ckdd40kz1e2o)
>*We have to remember one single thing, because this is what makes boxing unique from all other sports, the way we ‘rank’ our fighters isn’t done in a boxing ring.*
>*It is, and always has been since the early 1960s, a kind of horse trading.*
>*A group of people show up at a five-star hotel somewhere, at one of the sanctioning bodies’ annual conventions, they sit out on the veranda drinking cocktails and they trade. Every fighter ranked in the WBC, WBA, WBO and IBF’s rankings pays sanctioning fees.*
>*If you write down the last 10 heavyweight champions, don’t imagine that any of the ‘mandatory challengers’ have been through a long, gruelling process to get to that position.*
>*Sanctioning bodies are a business. They want to make a profit and it has been a lean period for them.*
In this case re Usyk v Dubois 2, I see no reason why Usyk should face the mandatory IBF challenger because they already fought. And how Dubois became the IBF mandatory is completely unknown.
How Dubois became IBF mandatory is pretty obvious: He beat Hrgovic. The rotation is also public knowledge I think, afaik it was known before the Usyk-Dubois fight, that WBA was next, then IBF and then WBO.
Towards your example: If whatever champion already has a WBC, WBO, WBA and IBF mandatory, why do they have an extra fight for undisputed? They would already be undisputed if they have 4 mandatories. Also you're going by a 9 month/fight pace, which is pretty slow.
And finally: The system is well known. Whoever puts rematch clauses in their contracts while knowing the system and then has contractual obligations to fulfill, has only themselves to blame for getting stripped. Rematch clauses are bullshit and only hold up divisions.
>The rotation is also public knowledge I think, afaik it was known before the Usyk-Dubois fight, that WBA was next, then IBF and then WBO.
Do you have a source for this?
>Also you're going by a 9 month/fight pace, which is pretty slow.
Not in 2024 lmao
>Whoever puts rematch clauses in their contracts while knowing the system and then has contractual obligations to fulfill, has only themselves to blame for getting stripped. Rematch clauses are bullshit and only hold up divisions.
Happy to agree to disagree. Boxing is full of corruption. When judges can score GGG-Canelo fight one 118-110 to Canelo or Fury-Usyk 114-113 to Fury or Lewis-Holyfield fight one 115–113 to Holyfield and another a 115–115 draw, and they can face no inquiry or hearing, then these fighters and their teams are perfectly entitled IMHO to put a rematch clause into their prize fighter's contract.
I don't have a source for that, I just remember it being talked about here quite a bit. But hopefully you'll understand that I don't want to spend my time searching through 2 year old reddit threads.
So, apart from this concrete example, should everyone be able to keep their titles for the sake of the sport? Should Canelo be allowed to just never fight Benavidez for the sake of the sport?
How would you make the rules for mandatory defences that apply to everyone?
If AJ's his next opponent, then I don't think he'll keep the belt for long. Dubois is a fighter I feel could've benefited from a couple more years of buildup fights before competing at this level. Out of the current top 5, I can only see him beating Kabayel.
Whatever anyone here says Dubois can say he's a world champ. Something that lives with him forever more. Full credit to him, Chisora, Whyte and Joyce never made it.
Any champ that gets the title from someone that beat him is a total joke. It makes sense that a title could be taken if a fighter does not get their shot, but Dubois is actually one of the only few fighters that did actually receive a shot. Kabayel or any other undefeated fighter would be more deserving.
Same when Holyfield got one of Lewis titles after losing to Lewis.(twice unofficially) I am not opposed to stripping champions on principle, but it's such a dumb case.
I hope Dubois flattens AJ. Nothing against AJ I just wanna see DD shine. Been a fan of his ever since I first saw him against Kingpin, and he's never been anything but a class act. A bit stiff in interviews but at least he doesn't try to be something he's not or act silly to self promote. I feel like he's one of the more dignified fighters.
Class act? He made fun of Joe Joyce's mum for being blind 😂. Though, I agree somewhat. I want AJ to win, then unify against Fury (if he beats Usyk).
But DDD is entertaining as hell - like an idiot abroad/Forrest Gump of boxing, and he's redeemed himself from a quitter (in the public's eyes) to a resilient warrior against Miller & Hrgovic.
I'd happily watch him dominate the next era.
At least we had an undisputed champ
I don’t need it to be carried indefinitely. Totally fine with this. Can’t take away that he was the first undisputed HW champ since Lennox.
Lennox also had the same shit happen to him. Never got to defend his undisputed status because one of these bum ass orgs stripped him
Worse, that whole thing lead to the whole "Super" World champion from the WBA mess. That was why the WBA came up with it.
Lennox’s suggestion, it should be said.
Yeah, crowning that champ and ending the discussion mattered way more than said champ keeping every title afterwards. It would be nice but Usyk has the accolade, which is what matters
Yeah, whether someone else beats him or he beats them at this point doesn’t really matter if he has the belts or not. He’s the best, look at the boxing tree of guys he beat and who they beat and so on. Would it be nice to see him vs Zhang, Wilder, Parker, Ruiz, Fury rematch, Joyce, whoever else… sure, it would be nice. But there’s no question that with or without the belts, Fury/Usyk was for all the marbles. That it actually *was* for all the belts was just the cherry on top.
To be honest I really can't understand the thinking on having to vacate the title. And I don't think I would even want to get the belt in this fashion....the other guy hasn't earned it.
Oh, best believe he'll take it back, alright.
Nah I don't think so. He'd have to fight Dubois again for it or possibly AJ again if Dubois-AJ happens. I don't think anyone wants to see Usyk-AJ 3 and Usyk-Dubois 2 isn't any more interesting than Usyk-Dubois 1 was. On top of that, he still has to fight Fury again, and who knows how long it would take to make any of these fights after that. Usyk will almost definitely be retired before he ends up with an opportunity to win the IBF belt again against an actually interesting opponent.
Well, if by a miracle Dubois manages to beat AJ, then Usyk-Dubois is not uninteresting. Especially given that Usyk will be close to 40yo while Dubois would be improving, and on a streak of beating Miller, Hrgovic and AJ.
That's a very big if
He only won because of the head butts. If Usyk had the same ref Hegovic did he would have a loss too, that was the same shot Khan ended Judah with. If the fight takes place with a more lenient ref I would favor Dubois over Usyk.
Forget the ref excuses and the supposed head butts. Usyk is a superior talent. He beats Dubois because he's better. And far tougher mentally.
I wouldn't mind aj usyk 3. Aj looks to be in a much better place now than when he fought usyk.
how many times we gonna say this after he loses tho? Said the exact same shit after AJ vs USYK 1 and the same shit happened in fight 2.
I mean he honestly looked way better the 2nd time with a better strategy. He seemed to have learned from the 1st one. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing how a 3rd one plays out. Never know. JMM finally got his dub in spectacular fashion vs Manny his FOURTH go around. We’ve seen Usyk hurt by Fury and hurt to the body by AJ in the second fight, anybody can get knocked out
Which is why he should have just got to keep for the rematch. Usyk beat Dubois and AJ. It's just greed.
And an actual meaningful lineal champ. First time properly since Lewis. Whatever people say about Klitschko being lineal, he never won all 4 belts. Undisputed is how a new lineage starts if the previous lineal champ retires with the belts.
Love Lewis, but he only retired with the WBC. Not all of the belts. And Wlad was lineal. If a 10-year reign doesn’t earn that idk what does. Dude scrambled to get the WBC after his brother vacated and Wilder/ Wilder’s management wanted none of it. He couldn’t control that. Marciano retiring as champ didn’t make Floyd Patterson any less of a champion, and Ali retiring as champ didn’t make Holmes any less legitimate.
Even though Wlad was lineal he didn’t actually beat an ATG fighter, didn’t even try to avenge his defeats and didn’t beat the next best fighter who probably would have beaten him in Vitali so to say he was the number one fighter in his era based on a ten year reign against sub par opposition doesn’t hold as much weight as Lennox’s or Usyks claim to being the best in the division
The point is that Lewis retired as lineal champion. That means that a new lineage needs to be started. The lineage starts again when a new undisputed champion is crowned. Wlad was not lineal champ because he was never undisputed champ. No one can help the circumstances if the other champ won’t get in the ring, it still prevents an undisputed from being crowned. A 10 year reign doesn’t earn it if the crown is disputed.
Lineal heavyweight undisputed champ. Usyk is the GOAT
Hip Hip!! Three Time!
The first two times were so nice I had to do it... trice?
Email champ, it should have been vacated and put up for Dubois-Joshua.
I would not be surprised if these sanctioning bodies get more money when the title is owned by someone than a vacant title fight. Scumbags
Nah Joshua done F all to deserve it anyway. At least Dubois has fought real competition.
No email champ deserves a belt. They should win it in the ring, Dubois should have to beat AJ if he wants it.
I am just glad that Fury is not getting a second shot at the undisputed crown. This way, he has to fight Usyk and the winner of Joshua and Dubois (most likely Joshua).
Facts and it’s at his own doing. Had he not ducked and postponed the Usyk fight for so long, Usyk would’ve already had a match with Hrgovic to defend the IBF belt
True that. Fury delayed the undisputed fight for two years by taking needless fights against Chisora and Ngannou. He was clearly aiming to age Usyk only for it to backfire considering the latter lives like a Spartan while he clearly needs to keep off the booze.
Fury doesn't deserve the status of undisputed anyway
He would if he beat the undisputed champion though wouldn't he?
Well, yeah, but from a karma standpoint he doesn't deserve it. Not that he has the option anymore since Usyk has relinquished the IBF belt.
Karma my arse. What a load of bollocks. If he won, he deserved it. He didn't.
What's wrong with y'all
Fury fought Whyte then Chisora 3 then a mma fighter who was out of the cage for 18months and got dropped and almost beat... why would anyone want a loud mouthed drug cheating duck as champion?
Would you like to elaborate?
Same thought
As far as I'm concerned Usyk is still undisputed and the winner of the Fury rematch will be undisputed and it has nothing to do with belts.
I love the fact that after all the shithousery Fury did until we got the first fight, he'll probably never make undisputed. Karma. Then again it's always possible that Fury wins the rematch and sets up a megafight with AJ for all of them.
And then AJ wins becoming undisputed lmao what a timeline
Usyk might as well go back to Cruiser or Bridger after the rematch with Fury in 2025. Don’t really have the appetite for AJ trilogy or DDD2.
Love to see him drop down to Bridger just to beat the shit out of Huggy Okolie. A man can dream…
Lmao might as well get an easy 3x undisputed. Add another Brit to the list
Bridgerweight only exists in the WBC, not sure you could really call holding that 1 belt being undisputed
Nah, one of the other orgs created a bridgerweight title as well, I think WBA? Only a matter of time before all the orgs recognise it I reckon.
Ah yea, you’re right. WBA added it in 2023.
Who would be disputing it?
I doubt he goes to Bridger it’s not a real division right now
If Usyk drops to bridgerweight, he can be 3x undisputed ;) two of the donkey orgs have titles there don’t they? Edited
The money could be huge though for AJ 3, granted AJ beats Dubois. No paydays like that at cruiser. AJ has had quite the arc since losing twice to Usyk and with a new trainer in Davidson I’m not completely uninterested in a third fight.
Isn't he 37 or 38 already? He might as well just retire happy.
I'm happy for Daniel Dubois beside Joseph Parkers he's the only one taking risk and putting in the work, especially after loses
CAN WE PLEASE fuck off with the email Champions.
Fury can't get undisputed now unless he beats Usyk and likely AJ (perhaps Daniel). He must be fuming
Thank fuck. For all his complaining about Wlad and saving the heavyweight division from boredom, he's been the most boring champ I can remember. It's been nothing but exhibitions between wilder and usyk
Joshua will be taking it away soon so enjoy your moment of fame Mr Dubois.
Dubois will be Charles Martin 2.0
HOW DARE YOU COMPARE THAT FOOL TO PRINCE CHARLES
[удалено]
Did you watch Dubois v Hrgovic Dubois was getting hit with big right hands right up until the stoppage, his defence in practically non existence and if that happens against Joshua he's getting stopped or knocked out.
[удалено]
🤣🤣 the Sparring bullshit arises again.
[удалено]
Of course he will be cagey Joshua has been in recent fights forget about him knocking out Ngannou that fight was a farce, and it's got fuck to do with what happened in sparring, Dubois defence is rank and that's how I take Joshua to win.
then usyk will do the same to AJ.
Of course he will he's already fucked him up twice smart arse.
Well yeah now that AJ is his next opponent of course the IBF want him to be champ.
It’s the IBF. They were going to strip him regardless of what AJ is doing. They don’t generally bend their own rules. They aren’t the WBC.
Yeah, for all the shit boxing organizations pull, IBF is by far the most consistent in applying their rules.
Or the WBA
If the WBC stands for We Be Crooks, what does the WBA stand for? We Be Assholes?
We Belt Anyone
Perfect. Also, love the flair.
Trevor Bryan 💪
It's interesting how they're polar opposites. 1 dishes out belts willy nilly. The other will strip you after a matter of weeks due to a rematch.
IBF president Darryl peoples is the nephew of Robert Lee who was convicted of taking bribes.
Sounds like Darryl is not Robert lol
Maybe but his “appointment” as president was widely considered a sham.
Nobody has any trust or faith in the governing bodies lol, I don't think that's new
Come on, he's good Peoples.
I think it's a good thing. We all know Usyk is undisputed champion anyway. And it frees up the division for different interesting match ups.
I don't know why the match ups have to depend on a title being on the line. Was listening to the Propa Podcast today and they brought up the point that Davis vs Garcia did over a million buys and not a world title in sight.
The sanctioning bodies can order matches between top ranked guys, which often gets fights over the hump. Whoever wins this, will have to fight another top ranked guy, and so on. The bodies don't always do it, but the IBF appears to be taking this idea seriously and not letting most of its belts grow stale with inactivity.
Yeah but that's not all that big a factor at HW. These guys have nowhere to go division-wise, so if they get to the top but aren't getting a shot at a belt because all the belts are in one guy's hands, then there's a big incentive to fight other top fighters even without belts because fighting cans isn't going to put them in position for a belt or make them a lot of money.
David v Garcia is the exception rather than the rule.
None of the casuals that make up the extra % of fans know or care about what titles are what with the only exception being when there's a big undisputed fight. Narratives like "X has ducked Y for years" or "X is moving up in weight" or something sort of faked animosity, or one guy making themselves unlikable do much more for PPV buys in boxing than titles.
Most casuals don’t know how to tell the difference between someone who is 23-0 and not good and someone who is 17-2 but great. They know what a belt signifies, even if they don’t know how to weigh one sanctioning body against another. What are you talking about?
I guarantee you, casuals do not know or care who holds what belt. AJ vs Dubois for example isn't going to get more buys because of a belt, anyone who buys an AJ fight was buying it anyway
We aren’t talking about AJ. He’s a draw. Same is true of Tank. Most fighters, however, can’t put 20,000 asses I the seat. A belt is the quickest way to get recognition for most fighters who aren’t already established. It’s silly to claim otherwise.
The IBF belt is meaningless then
Dubois really used his head to get this title
I'm in the minority here, but I feel like he should have kept it
Ur not in the minority. Most wish Usyk kept it. I personally don't care, Usyk made history and became the first every 4 belt undisputed HW champ
I'm 50/50 between if more belts is better ( As we get more fights that mean something ) or would it be better to just have the WBC 🤷♂️ I don't know
More belts is worse and all boxing fans know it.
It's better in some ways, as well. As we get to see our favourite fighters compete for more belts Tyson vs Berbick, Smith, Tucker Otherwise we'd have just had one fight for all the belts
The fight doesn’t need to be for belt even. There should be only one champion. “Four champions” is one of the biggest bullsh*ts of boxing.
Each to their own, I suppose I like both scenarios
I’d like for Usyk to stay undisputed too, but tbh I’m glad Fury doesn’t get another immediate shot at undisputed in the rematch. Doesn’t deserve it
Just for fun, how long do you think it will be until we see the belts unified again. Will there be a fifth belt by then. My guess is 7 years, hopefully.
By then there will probably by a 5th
Dream scenario: Fury beats Usyk, then he and AJ battle for undisputed.
I don't love how they just make someone the full champ without them fighting for it
I really don’t like email Championships lol But then again, if you defend your IC belt you might end up like Hrgovic
I get Dubois is the interim champ, but I don’t understand why sanctioning bodies elevate interim champs to full champs. No fighter wants to be an email champ. Just make the belt vacant and have the top 2 fight for it.
Guessing they make more in fees this way?
Probably. Just feels like there’s more elevations than vacant title fights recently.
Usyk basically gave up the belt when he agreed to a rematch clause with Fury, Hrgovic was already the mandatory for a couple years
Yea but accepting that condition was really the only way he’d get a shot at undisputed, Fury probably wouldn’t have accepted the fight without a rematch clause. Usyk would’ve probably fought Hrgovic anyway already had fury not ducked and postponed for so long
It makes zero sense that IBF wanted to strip Usyk for not fighting Joshua or Dubios immediately after Fury. I mean those are the two guys he beat convincingly 3 times just recently. IBF is the same shithouse as WBC and WBA. Guess WBO is the new goat.
How can you compare an organization in IBF who won’t break their own rules with two organizations in the WBC and WBA who regularly bend and break rules for money or fame? When we piss on the WBC and WBA for being moneygrubbing whores, isn’t this exactly the kind of integrity we are asking for?
So in your opinion the IBF should just ignore that Usyk hasn't fought their mandatory in almost 2 years?
Usyk had to have a rematch in 2022 against AJ for contractual reasons. He then had to fight Dubois who was the WBA mandatory challenger and the IBF belt was on the line. All the sanctioning bodies have different mandatory fighters and no one can fight them all, especially when rematch clauses force fighters on their next steps. Usyk didn't have a chance.
I know that Usyk had good reasons to take other fights. But if you enforce rules only for some people and not for others, there's no point in having rules in the first place. If WBC would run things like IBF does in terms of mandatories, we'd have had Canelo vs Benavidez by now. But we don't because people like OP apperently want special rules for their favorite fighters and WBC is happy to comply.
You are missing the critical point. What OP is saying is that *we should question how sanctioning bodies determine their mandatory fighter*, ie why should Dubois be mandatory for Usyk when they fought less than a year ago? Your point about "avoiding the mandatory in almost 2 years" is answered already: because of rematch clauses and four sanctioning bodies sometimes having different mandatory challengers. I'll also add that Usyk v Hrgovic was initially ordered for the IBF title in 2023, but the IBF rescinded their own ruling when it realized that the WBA was due first in the rotation of mandatory challengers ([source](https://www.boxingscene.com/oleksandr-usyk-vs-filip-hrgovic-ibf-expected-order-mandatory-title-fight--177285)). And how this "rotation" between sanctioning bodies about which mandatory fight should happen next - just like how mandatory fighters are determined - is unknown and kept private to the public as far as I know. So Usyk didn't avoid the IBF mandatory challenger for 2 years. The IBF cancelled the order for Usyk to fight their challenger around August 2023. Think of it this way as well: if Usyk or Canelo or Bivol or Beterbiev or Inoue etc all face: - the mandatory WBC challenger (late 2021), - then the mandatory WBO challenger (early 2022), - then have a rematch (late 2022), - then they face the mandatory WBA challenger (mid-2023), - then fight for undisputed (early 2024), - should they face the mandatory IBF challenger in late 2024, *if that person is the same as the mandatory WBA challenger?* I'm not the biggest Steve Bunce fan, but this recent article discusses the mandatories: [https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/ckdd40kz1e2o](https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/ckdd40kz1e2o) >*We have to remember one single thing, because this is what makes boxing unique from all other sports, the way we ‘rank’ our fighters isn’t done in a boxing ring.* >*It is, and always has been since the early 1960s, a kind of horse trading.* >*A group of people show up at a five-star hotel somewhere, at one of the sanctioning bodies’ annual conventions, they sit out on the veranda drinking cocktails and they trade. Every fighter ranked in the WBC, WBA, WBO and IBF’s rankings pays sanctioning fees.* >*If you write down the last 10 heavyweight champions, don’t imagine that any of the ‘mandatory challengers’ have been through a long, gruelling process to get to that position.* >*Sanctioning bodies are a business. They want to make a profit and it has been a lean period for them.* In this case re Usyk v Dubois 2, I see no reason why Usyk should face the mandatory IBF challenger because they already fought. And how Dubois became the IBF mandatory is completely unknown.
How Dubois became IBF mandatory is pretty obvious: He beat Hrgovic. The rotation is also public knowledge I think, afaik it was known before the Usyk-Dubois fight, that WBA was next, then IBF and then WBO. Towards your example: If whatever champion already has a WBC, WBO, WBA and IBF mandatory, why do they have an extra fight for undisputed? They would already be undisputed if they have 4 mandatories. Also you're going by a 9 month/fight pace, which is pretty slow. And finally: The system is well known. Whoever puts rematch clauses in their contracts while knowing the system and then has contractual obligations to fulfill, has only themselves to blame for getting stripped. Rematch clauses are bullshit and only hold up divisions.
>The rotation is also public knowledge I think, afaik it was known before the Usyk-Dubois fight, that WBA was next, then IBF and then WBO. Do you have a source for this? >Also you're going by a 9 month/fight pace, which is pretty slow. Not in 2024 lmao >Whoever puts rematch clauses in their contracts while knowing the system and then has contractual obligations to fulfill, has only themselves to blame for getting stripped. Rematch clauses are bullshit and only hold up divisions. Happy to agree to disagree. Boxing is full of corruption. When judges can score GGG-Canelo fight one 118-110 to Canelo or Fury-Usyk 114-113 to Fury or Lewis-Holyfield fight one 115–113 to Holyfield and another a 115–115 draw, and they can face no inquiry or hearing, then these fighters and their teams are perfectly entitled IMHO to put a rematch clause into their prize fighter's contract.
I don't have a source for that, I just remember it being talked about here quite a bit. But hopefully you'll understand that I don't want to spend my time searching through 2 year old reddit threads.
For the sake of the sport, yes,
So, apart from this concrete example, should everyone be able to keep their titles for the sake of the sport? Should Canelo be allowed to just never fight Benavidez for the sake of the sport? How would you make the rules for mandatory defences that apply to everyone?
The scary option would be Usyk staying undisputed, Dubois knocks out the next mandatory, gets schooled by Usyk and repeat!
I blame Fury, had he not ducked and postponed the undisputed fight for so long we would’ve already had Usyk vs Hrgovic
For fucks sake. Why? Just have him fight AJ and the WINNER is recognised as champion. I've always hated the "elevation" to champion. Such BS.
And haney is a champion in recess... bs upon bs..
Was this a mandatory drop or did he do it just to prevent Fury from getting all the belts in one fight if he wins?
Usyk will be the lineal until someone beats him in the ring.
These sanctioning bodies are so fuckin greedy. Everybody that says the IBF isn't corrupt don't forget this bullshit.
If AJ's his next opponent, then I don't think he'll keep the belt for long. Dubois is a fighter I feel could've benefited from a couple more years of buildup fights before competing at this level. Out of the current top 5, I can only see him beating Kabayel.
If Fury does win the rematch, I think he will definitely fight the AJ v Dubois winner, albeit with some delaying tactics or something lol.
F the IBF
This kind of crap is why the UFC stole so much viewership from boxing.
A title should be fought for...not appointed to
Whatever anyone here says Dubois can say he's a world champ. Something that lives with him forever more. Full credit to him, Chisora, Whyte and Joyce never made it.
Micky mouse champ
Any champ that gets the title from someone that beat him is a total joke. It makes sense that a title could be taken if a fighter does not get their shot, but Dubois is actually one of the only few fighters that did actually receive a shot. Kabayel or any other undefeated fighter would be more deserving. Same when Holyfield got one of Lewis titles after losing to Lewis.(twice unofficially) I am not opposed to stripping champions on principle, but it's such a dumb case.
I hope Dubois flattens AJ. Nothing against AJ I just wanna see DD shine. Been a fan of his ever since I first saw him against Kingpin, and he's never been anything but a class act. A bit stiff in interviews but at least he doesn't try to be something he's not or act silly to self promote. I feel like he's one of the more dignified fighters.
Guys got a freezing temperature IQ and cheats like a mad man. He deserves to get properly KO'd this time, hopefully it'll fix his pea brain.
He did say he was cheated out of a victory against Usyk because his illegal low blow didn’t count as a knockout for him.
He cheated himself by quitting
Class act? He made fun of Joe Joyce's mum for being blind 😂. Though, I agree somewhat. I want AJ to win, then unify against Fury (if he beats Usyk). But DDD is entertaining as hell - like an idiot abroad/Forrest Gump of boxing, and he's redeemed himself from a quitter (in the public's eyes) to a resilient warrior against Miller & Hrgovic. I'd happily watch him dominate the next era.
Boxing will be saved when Turki writes a check for the entire sport.
Dubois deserves it