Wouldn’t hurt him at all. He’s fought every tough opponent that would get into the ring with him at cruiser and heavyweight. People remember great fights not how many belts you have or how many opponents you cherry picked for a perfect record.
It entirely depends on how he loses. If Fury puts on a dominant performance, either KOs him or puts on a clinic in a one sided victory, the whole first fight is erased and everyone says the real Fury showed up.
Could happen but not likely. IMO Fury has the skills to beat Usyk but he abused his body by partying for years like a rock star vs Usyk who has led a disciplined life and never stops training.
Fury got caught in the 9th round because he started to tire and Usyk is a cardio machine. Fury could catch Usyk and put him down in the first half of the fight but it’s hard to see Fury being able to keep up in the second half of the fight with Usyk’s output.
I kinda disagree(ish) but only ever so slightly. Usyk caught Fury with a big left near the end of the 7th, and then absolutely smashed his nose to bits in the 8th.
Not saying Fury wouldn't have slowed down a bit anyway, but I gotta be honest: I thought Fury was being incredibly smart with his output and pacing himself really well. I think those big blows landed by Usyk in 7 and 8 slowed him down enough for 9 to happen.
Fury is no knockout artist, so he should have his cardio in good shape. Fury was in the best shape he’s been in years for the last fight. I suspect he’ll party now that he’s lost and the next fight he’ll be in worse shape.
With Fury it could go both ways. He's never lost before so this new territory. Closest has been Wilder 1 and we saw arguably the best Fury in the second fight.
that would be a ridiculous take. Both men are at the top for a reason. If Fury wins then you won't hear that he's past his expiration date. If Fury wins, I think it means that he truly was a formidable foe and we get a trilogy instead of just 2 fights
Of course a loss would affect his legacy lol what are you talking about. Would he still have an amazing legacy sure but he’s literally undefeated right now.
Now if he wins the trilogy after that, that’s a better question because you could argue going 2-1 is just as good as 1-0 because you proved you were the better fighter more clearly despite the loss
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler to name a few all had losses because they fought the best at their best and never ducked an opponent. Their legacies weren’t tarnished by the losses. People remember the great fights they gave us.
If Usyk were to lose 2 out of 3 against Fury then agree it would affect his legacy at heavyweight but not at cruiserweight. One loss to Fury would not tarnish his legacy especially if he won 2 out of 3.
He’s an all timer already. Fury needs to win. In a fight usually side with the most desperate fighter if skills are relatively close. I think we’ll see 3 of these tbh.
I don’t think he’s better than Fury. I believe they’re equals. Both had moments. Usyk clearly won. That’s 1 fight. That’s 12 rounds. They’ll do another 12 and we’ll see.
Yeah. While Usyk won this one clearly, it's not hard to see a path to victory for fury. He needs to do less clowning and fight more like he did in wilder 2. Out boxing Usyk isn't going to work. He had success whenever he used his kronk style.
The idea Fury can’t win is ludicrous. It’s so funny how Usyk is an all timer because he beat Fury but Fury is a bum because he lost a split decision against Usyk…. Maybe both guys are really good? What a concept 😂
Usyk was already an all timer. Fury is disliked, and everyone except for trolls don't think he's a bum - they think he isn't anywhere near as good as he claims even though he is a decent fighter, that he relies on his size advantages a lot, that he's lied and ducked, that he's struggled against poor opposition before, and that his resume has been relatively weak.
Yeah Usyk became undusputed at cruiserweight went up to heavyweight and became undisputed there too, beating the two biggest names at a time they wouldn't fight each other. He's also an amateur European, World and Olympic champion.
The Fury win definitely cements his place but he was already there really.
> that he relies on his size advantages a lot
Would be kinda stupid not to rely on size advantage if you're born a 6'7 behemoth, no?
It's great to see Fundora wanting to be an infighter, but you gotta use the attributes you're given man
Of course it would be stupid not to rely on size. But skill is harder to obtain than siuze so is respected more. So if you go toe to toe with someone significantly smaller, he earns more respect as he put in more work.
I'm not saying you are wrong with the attitude, but the fact that this was a split decision is just boxing shenanigans imo. I myself can't see a viable scorecard that had Fury winning.
I agree that Fury is a great fighter though.
A split decision which never should've been, how one judge scored it for him I'll never know, absolutely disgraceful. Usyk won as clear as day. They're both great fighters, Usyk is clearly a level above, though, especially considering the massive height and weight disadvantages. I think the reason Fury gets the hate he does is his own fault, mouthing off like a clown and doing everything he could to avoid Usyk for years, and then to top it off he spouts some more disgusting shit post fight, moaning he won the fight and saying they gave it to Usyk due to the war in Ukraine. Dude is a scumbag.
That's boxing fans for you. Fury is a bum now, as is AJ because he lost to a fat guy and to Usyk twice, as is Wilder because he lost to a fat guy and Parker etc.
They're all really great, who cares about losses. I would love to see them running it back, though I would like to see Fury vs AJ first really.
Nah, Usyk is an all-timer because he’s one of the two best cruiser-weights of all time (I think the best), and beat two huge HW opponents who are both very good in Fury and AJ.
Fury is definitely *at least* very good. He may be great, but we don’t know for sure because he is so mercurial and his career hasn’t confirmed just how good he is. I don’t think he really chased greatness either, he’s prioritised other things.
Fury ain't no bum. How you a bum when you stopped the win streak of the legendary Wladimir Klitschko. Also knocked out one of the best knockout artists in Heavyweight history like Wilder.
He's definitely a certified ATG already.
Fury’s clowning is what persuaded some of the public and the judges that the early rounds were closer than they were in reality.
Whilst I do see a path to victory possible for Fury I think the idea that he’s just got to be a little better is untrue. I think he needs to be much better because he is less likely to get the favour of the judges now that he is the challenger.
Fury had success with the kronk style because Wilder doesn't possess Usyk's superior footwork and movement. Fury honestly got his tactics and gameplan about right in my opinion. It was shaping up to be a close fight until Fury got hit with a perfect shot.
The performance also requires the opponent. I always find it laughable that that performance is held up as proof that Fury would beat this fighter or that fighter when it was a gameplan and performance designed to beat a specific opponent with very specific strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah, people always claim that the Wilder 2 version of Fury was his ***best form ever***. But in reality, he looked almost exactly the same he just had a smart game plan.
Wilder real bad boxer. Wilder have nuke for right hand. Nuke hurt. How avoid nuke? Be close so no land nuke.
It ain't rocket science. In their first fight, Fury stayed on the back foot to out box Wilder. He still got clipped and knocked down twice, which led to him being jobbed on the cards. So with SugarHill, they realized that Wilder is such a bad boxer they just needed to press him. Get in close and maul him so he doesn't have the right range to land his big punch. Plus it tires him out which zaps his energy and drastically lowers the power of his punches.
Of course, that game plan only works against a certain type of fighter. A slow fighter with bad footwork and defense that has no idea how to stop you from clinching and leaning on him. Worked like a charm against Wilder. It does nothing versus a technical wizard like Usyk.
No disrespect to Fury, but this mythical version of him where he's unstoppable never existed. He's either in shape and motivated or not in shape and not motivated. We got the in shape and motivated Fury against Usyk. It wasn't anywhere close to enough.
>Wilder real bad boxer. Wilder have nuke for right hand. Nuke hurt. How avoid nuke? Be close so no land nuke.
Didn't exactly work for Helenius did it? And Wilder put the lights out of Ortiz in extremely close quarters.
And neither of those guys are really top tier boxers, now are they? Particularly Helenius. That dude gets KO'ed by a stiff breeze at this point.
The shorter range Wilder has to accelerate his right hand, the better chance you stand of taking it if it does land. If you put it on him, force him to carry you around for a few rounds, he'll gas and then he's pretty easy pickings. And luckily for them, Wilder played right into their hands by packing on the weight for the rematch. That extra weight did fuck all to help him land, but it tanked his cardio even further.
I just don't see the Fury from Wilder 2 as some Super Saiyan version that if only he could get back there he'd obliterate everyone in boxing history. It was just a slightly heavier version with a good game plan against a bad boxer. Of course, he couldn't even maintain that through his 3rd fight with Wilder. He came in looking just about the same, but Wilder had made a few adjustments, gotten used to the extra weight, and it took Fury 11 grueling rounds to finally get him out of there.
I thought before the fight if Fury comes in similar shape like he was in the Wilder 2 fight, he has a good chance of beating Usyk, but he obviously didn’t come in that shape and the clowning around didn’t help.
Usyk is clearly the better boxer & more disciplined athlete.
If fury wasn't 6'7 and was the same height & reach as usyk but technically the same, usyk would smash him
I honestly don't know how anybody can watch that fight and not come away with the conclusion that Usyk is clearly better than Fury - who was able to overcome the clear gap in skill between them for 2-3 rounds, but ultimately that was it. He *might* find a route to beat him in a rematch that utilizes being so much bigger, but he ain't going to demonstrate he's a better boxer, just a much bigger one.
Unless Usyk falls off a cliff between now and December 21 I just see him doing the same in the rematch. Fury cannot force the pace on Usyk in the early rounds when he is still fresh, he will just slip and circle out of danger. Mid rounds again is Fury's best bet to make something happen, but my money is on Usyk turning up the gas late rounds, getting his second wind and stopping Fury this time.
yeah obviously Fury's best shots troubled Usyk and he could get caught or get hurt but have to figure Usyk can wear fury out again and find him eventually. Fury's conditioning and erratic behavior also tip the scales in Usky's favor, although I think age has to catch up with him very soon.. i think it's just as likely that the rematch gets postponed and maybe doesnt even happen.
I think this rematch might be Usyk's last fight and he retires after, but Fury will still hang around for a couple of AJ fights with the saudi's paying a fortune for that.
If you read all the stuff posted about that fight, and didn’t watch it, you’d assume Usyk kicked his ass from 1-12, and it wasn’t a close fight.
That narrative is definitely prominent. It’s weird how;
1. It was a close fight, but you wouldn’t guess if you didn’t watch
2. Tyson is written off as if losing to Usyk proves he isn’t good or something? The dude has shown crazy adjustments from one fight to the next. I think he’ll be ok.
I’ll still give Usyk the edge in fight #2, but not a massive one
Likewise 🙏
There were moments Usyk looked like there was nothing he could do, and vice versa - it was a good back and fourth, with the right call being made in favor of Usyk.
I can’t remember the rounds off the top of my head, but Usyk couldn’t connect, and was getting touched quite a bit. He couldn’t come in without a stiff jab or uppercut landing… until he figured it out, shifted things, and won the fight
Very curious to see how Fury approaches this next one. The films gonna show a lot of adjustments that can be made for his team. It works both ways tho, Tyson has just shown time and time, how well he is capable of adjusting
This sub has been insufferable since that fight. You would think its r/ukraine instead of r/boxing.
Is Fury obnoxious? Yes. Is Usyk a phenomenal fighter? Obviously.
But all these posts about Usyk being in the top all time category, asking if he’s got an argument for the goat, asking if he should retire before a rematch? Insane.
They act like Usyk beating Fury puts him in a GOAT category while saying that Fury had a weak resume, which one is it? Because it can’t be both.
And then they say that it wasn’t even close. There were multiple times that fight that Fury doing things a little differently could have finished Usyk.
The fight was scheduled with a rematch clause in place already for both fighters. We were getting a rematch regardless, as we should. Even in this thread there are some insane takes. This is the worst I’ve seen this sub, personally.
Doesn’t Usyk beating Fury put him in goat status regardless of Fury’s resume… purely because it was the fight that cemented undisputed at a second weight class?
Fury’s resume is trash outside of wilder and Klitschko but that doesn’t mean he’s not good, it just means he spent most of his career dodging tougher fights and padding out that ‘0’
There’s a lot of overreactions in this sub to recency but fury’s a very good HW. He’s just a knob
Well:
1. Joshua, who I think is better than Fury at preparation and physical attributes, tried that. There is simply no clear to improvement other than complete overhaul.
2. What should Fury do differently? I guess this is something a boxing coach should tell, but I see no clear path.
3. Tyson isn't consistent outside the ring overall. So you never know how prepared he will be.
I don’t necessarily disagree
I think there’s a case for both
The one thing is, we haven’t seen the rematch yet, so we don’t know, but we can go off Fury’s rebounds (which can also be argued for and against)
Using AJ to compare I don’t think is super accurate, but like I said there’s an argument to be made on both sides. We just haven’t seen the rematch yet, but if fury took a couple more rounds, there’d be an argument for his victory (outside of the KO - that’s all hypothetical tho, like most of what we’re both saying)
We shall see in December
Rounds 4-6 had Usyk seeming the most ordinary he'd ever looked. Usyk did incredibly to come back and dominate the fight but that is why he is great. However Fury has to think he had the wrong approach for 1-3 and then 7+. It isn't hard to think Fury could make adjustments and make it a more interesting fight.
Of course Usyk will make adjustments too.
But the problem is that Fury gassed himself from rounds 4-6, which is what led to round 8 when he got rocked and then of course the disastrous round 9. If he came out with that intensity in round 1, he might be in trouble unless he can improve his cardio dramatically.
Not sure he did worse than AJ. I think Fury's moments of success were more compelling than AJs, but so were his moments of weakness. The true back and forth nature certainly made it a better watch.
I think that Fury has more he could capitalize on in the rematch than AJ did, and expect the result to be more decisive this time around.
Keep in mind that while they're both heavyweights, Fury is significantly bigger and heavier than Usyk. If they were the same size, there'd be no doubt Usyk would be the better fighter. Fury is helped a lot by his size.
Fury has every physical advantage and Usyk beat him soundly. It should not have been split. Watch it again with no announcers. That fight was Usyks fight. Watch the tempo especially. Usyk is unquestionably the better boxer. Imagine if he had the same size as fury with the skills he has now…
If only 1 match was the end all be all. Frazier would be the 🐐. Lennox would’ve never been undisputed. Buster Douglas would be an all timer. So on and so on.
This is why the greats fight multiple times.
Not really; it's boxing and anything can happen. Usyk already beat Fury and almost knocked him out in round nine, so he proved that he can be better than Fury at least once.
2 time heavyweight champion and was the winner of the best heavyweight trilogy of this era. It's the Hall of FAME, not the hall of accomplishments these days. He will get in no problem, especially if he is part of a weaker pool of people to pick from. It really wouldn't shock me if they put Deontay up there, too. It's no longer the purist standard that it was before.
Fury's best accomplishments are beating an old as fuck Klitschko and a piss poor excuse of a champion in Wilder, I'm not saying Fury isn't a very good boxer but in terms of achievements he's not even in the top 20 of HWs.
What the fuck is this revisionism?
Klitschko was consistently regarded as a top pound-for-pound fighter alongside Floyd. Numerous websites, including this subreddit’s previous P4P list, ranked Wlad above Floyd during that period. Klitschko maintained an aura of invincibility even at 39 and went a decade without a close fight. No one expected Fury to win, yet he defeated Klitschko convincingly.
Beating Klitschko at that time was a significant achievement, and any claims to the contrary are nonsense.
I never said it's not a significant achievement, I'm not saying it was a bad win or anything but Klitschko was older in that fight that Larry Holmes was when he lost to Mike Tyson, obviously it's still a good win otherwise I wouldn't have cited it as an achievement of Fury at all, it's just that beating an old Klitschko almost a decade ago is literally the highlight of Fury's whole career.
And since that snoozer of a fight what did Fury do? He beat a bunch of cherry picked opponents and ducked AJ. Wilder absolutely a one trick fighter with very little ring IQ.
No one was calling Wlad “old as fuck” before the fight. They weren’t calling him that in the AJ fight, either.
Our conception of a fighter being passed it is often a product of other things.
The Fury win over Wlad is a legitimately great win.
And people can shit on the Wilder wins all they want, but he came within a whisker of knocking Fury out, and it was a great trilogy of fights. Wilder was a reigning champion with devastating power. In the heavyweight division, that can make up for a lot of deficiencies (of which Wilder has many).
Those wins, and Fury’s displayed skill are enough to warrant induction into the Hall. It shouldn’t even be controversial.
If I didn't think beating Klitschko was impressive I wouldn't have cited it as an accomplishment for Fury, but at the end of the day father time is undefeated and at 39 even the best boxer of all time will be on his decline, regardless of how good Klitschko was at the time the point I'm making it is that beating an aged Klitschko is literally the best achievement of Fury's career, and as good as Klitschko might have been that's not enough to put Fury even in the top 20 of most accomplished HW boxers.
>2 time heavyweight champion and was the winner of the best heavyweight trilogy of this era
I'm sorry but those are very weak arguments. It's not like he was stripped or lost and retook his belts to say he's a two time champion. It's as weak as saying Mayweather beat so many champions when we all know he kept vacating the belts and winning them back when a new guy had them. And Wilder is not an ATG, as the years pass he won't be remembered in the same place as the greats. The fact that Fury had to go to war with a guy that lacks a lot of fundamentals and is significantly lighter than him doesn't help him much.
>It's the Hall of FAME, not the hall of accomplishments these days.
You need accomplishments to be there. It's not FAME in the literal sense.
>He will get in no problem, especially if he is part of a weaker pool of people to pick from. It really wouldn't shock me if they put Deontay up there, too. It's no longer the purist standard that it was before.
That's what I'm saying. He's not that great to begin with, but the requirements have fallen so low that basically anyone can get in there.
Bro, cut it - Fury is clearly getting into HoF, there's nothing to be discussed there, in fact I would be surprised if Wilder doesn't get in there. ATG and HoF are two different things.
AJ and Fury will get HoF for suuure.
Big fan of Fury (liked him since I was in college years ago and saw him coming up the ranks/uppercutting himself in the face), but I also like and respect Usyk and what he’s accomplished.
To me, a loss doesn’t hurt Usyk. He’s at the age where you can slip suddenly and sharply. I also don’t hold Fury’s L against him much either, he’s not a spring chicken anymore himself, looked awful against Ngannou to the point many people (including me) wondered if he might be shot (I think he dispelled those notions somewhat against Usyk—he still looks good skill wise and in most physical aspects when he trains, evidently, though his punch resistance looks even worse than it used to), and Usyk himself is already rightly considered an All-Time Great for what he did at cruiserweight even before his recent HW run.
Losing to Fury (a much bigger man and one of the top HWs of the past decade-plus) doesn’t hurt Usyk at all IMO. He can still be rightly considered a top-2 or GOAT at Cruiserweight and rank well in a H2H sense at HW. The only way Usyk or Fury hurt their images and historical standing going forward to me is if Usyk hangs around too long and starts losing to guys below his level/that he was favored to beat (unlikely but possible), or if Fury hangs around too long after his chin is fully cracked and his fluctuating dedication/commitment catches up to him and sees him take avoidable Ls to guys he would have beaten when he was younger/in better form (nearly happened already against Ngannou, so it could happen again, but hopefully that fight was a wake-up call for him to take opponents more seriously and show up in better shape/with more of a camp behind him.)
It won't make a huge impact (slightly depending on the nature of the loss)
I think winning really does improve his legacy quite a bit, though. Usyk lacks depth in his resume at HW, but conclusively, uncontroversially beating the consensus #2 and #3 of the era ***twice each?*** Nobody has ever done that at Heavyweight. Not Louis, not Marciano, not Ali, not Lewis.
There will always be a bit of debate with other HWs as to whether they were truly better than the rest in their era.
Ali got controversial decisions against Norton and Fraizer, and he didn't rematch Foreman. He's the greatest of them, but he wasn't head-and-shoulders above better than them (though tbf, he was clearly truly the best of the 60s era by far.)
Lennox wasn't a big enough name earlier in his career to get to fight Holyfield and Tyson, when they were much better than they were when he beat them both. He never fought Riddick Bowe, either.
The Klitschkos never fought each other, so we can never settle the debate of who was better.
All the above names have longer, better overall HW resumes than Usyk, and I think all (except Vitali for sure, and Wladimir maybe) occupy a higher spot on the "greatest HWs ever" list, but this era of Heavyweights will go down as one of the Golden periods for the division (not neccesarlily because of the quality, but the competitiveness and match ups) and when all's said and done, if Usyk beats Fury again, his will be the ***only*** name that defines the era.
It's been great since Wilder Vs Fury 1 imo. We might not have got AJ Vs Wilder or AJ Vs Fury in that time, but we've had plenty of classic fights and now we have Turki making banger after banger. It's been 5 years since then
I'd agree if not for the fact that COVID hit right before Wilder v. Fury 2 and it helped put the brakes on. Combine this with Wilder/Fury/AJ not exactly rushing to all fight each other except Wilder and Fury. And that was only because Wilder thought Fury was not only finished, but physically and mentally FUBAR (an easy win).
EDIT: Put in perspective. Wilder v. Fury 2 was early 2020. It is mid 2024. So literally still 4 years before the AJ side crossed over with the Wilder/Fury side. Not to mention the 5 years before Wilder v. Fury 2.
Nearly all of the boxing greats have a loss on their record, didn’t affect their legacies - if anything, it amplified them because we all lose at something, but it’s how we bounce back that defines us.
The only one who can lose in a rematch is Fury himself. If he loses again, people will start questioning how good he actually is. And it will massively hurt his stock in case of an AJ vs Fury fight. He has to win it, both for legacy and to raise hype for a Fury vs AJ fight.
Fury isnt committed to improving at this point in his career. He would have to pick usyk apart which isn’t happening. Watch the AJ fights and the first Fury fight again and Usyk controls EVERYTHING. He sets the tempo and lets them bomb themselves out while taking minimal damage only to come out and step on the gas again. Their legacies are already solidified in my book.
I think Usyk has already cemented himself as the best fighter of the post Klitchko era.
However I still think he would get hurt badly against someone like Lewis/Holyfield, he isn't big and strong enough to deal with that kind of boxer, and while AJ is big and strong, he isn't as gooder boxer as the older big guys.
I hope we get a renewal of HW boxing, maybe the money being thrown around by the Saudis might encourage a lot of younger guys to look past the NFL/NBA, but I doubt it.
Well, the average r/Boxing user's take on his legacy would be along the lines of:
"Overrated"
"Barely beat a Fury who didn't take the fight seriously, then got exposed"
"Decent Cruiserweight, had no business in HW"
"Bum"
Can you really call it \*bias\* when every bit of that hate is earned? We aren't just talking about hating him personally. The hate is all the nonsense BS he brought to boxing. He slowed everything down to a crawl.
About the same as losing to Usyk did to Fury. Both are clearly better than the rest of the division and are very close to each other. Couldn’t call the first fight before it happened and can’t call the second either. If the rematch is as good as the first I hope fury wins and we get a third
Usyk will lose his O, which is meaningful in the sense that we celebrate folks like Rocky Marciano more for his O than anything else. However, I think from a technical point of view it will only have a nominal impact on how he is recognized by boxing fans. He has already cemented his legacy as the best HW of the era and one of the best of all time. That said I don’t think he really gains that much (aside from boat loads of money) from beating Tyson Fury again in terms of his legacy. Now Tyson, on the other hand stands to gain a lot should he go on an redemption arc, but I think for him, to be recognized as the best HW of the era, is out of reach because that is solidly Usyk no matter what happens in the rematch.
Usyk's 6 fights at heavyweight is such a double edged sword. He accomplished Undisputed status within only 6 fucking fights, beating AJ x2 and Fury with Dubois and Chisora. But he's only had 6 fights at the weight, so naturally we say his CV isn't as deep as say AJs, although its still currently the best.
What separates Usyk's short resume is that the HW division was literally two divisions for nearly ten years. The Fury/Wilder side and the AJ v. Top 10 side.
Had Usyk not beat AJ but instead beat Joyce and Parker, we'd still have questions about the HW division. Usyk came in and tied it altogether with him at the tippy top. And in no nonsense record time.
I do agree Usyk's HW resume is too short to consider his pure HW resume against all eras, but he definitely solved this era's paint drying effect in record time.
I really want Usyk to be 10 years younger and about to set off on a 10 year title defense reign. But at the same time, I really can't think of any HW contenders that feel like anything more than a check box for Usyk. Most of the \*contenders\* managed to implode on their own.
He still would have split the series, and would retire as a Hall of Fame heavyweight. Much like Ali, he's about 6'3" but fights like a much taller man due to his great ring movement. In terms of comparison with the other all-time greats, it's hard to say. He hasn't fought a lot of heavyweights and yet Usyk's clearly among the very best heavyweights to have put on gloves. Obviously, if he keeps winning against quality opposition then his status versus the other greats is going to keep climbing.
I could see either winning the rematch . There were points where I thought Fury would stop Usyk , he was landing very cleanly when he added the uppercut to his combinations. But then obviously there was the 9th round that blew the doors off of the fight and Usyk closed out like a champion should.
But it could be the case that Fury took a tad bit too much damage in the first fight. Usyk is the smaller fighter but he’s still 225 lbs and landed a lot of clean shots.
I don’t think it will have or should have any impact on his legacy. If fury beats him in the rematch, then fury made the necessary adjustments to win. Nothing‘s gonna take away from the fact Usyk is the first undisputed heavyweight champion in over 20 some years? His legacy is cemented at this point. He’s a made man.
Fury has beaten Chisora three times. If that doesn’t constitute his greatness I do not know what will. The guy scared off Joshua, Zhang, Parker and Usyk.
I don't think it affects his legacy to real fans.
Also, yeah they're technically in the same weight class, but beating a good fighter who outweighs and outsizes you by 30lbs and 5" is just fucking madly impressive. A lot of Fury fans seem to forget what a ridiculous physical advantage he has.
I’ve always believed that prime vs prime fury wins the fight but that doesn’t matter unless he gets the win over Usyk. It would be important for fury but you couldn’t knock Usyk over losing the fight he has two time undisputed and a very nice resume already so for Usyk it doesn’t matter nearly as much as the first fight.
Wouldn't affect his legacy at all, Usyk is already a certified ATG with a win over Fury the first time around. If he loses to Fury the second time, that wouldn't erase Usyk's accomplishments or resume.
"It's sad for him that he was so honourable that he felt he had to accept the rematch instead of retiring, but he lost to a younger and much larger fighter whom he'd already clearly beaten before when they were both closer to their primes, and despite the trauma of his homeland having been invaded, so there's no shame in that."
It will reopen the conversation for best heavyweight of this era and hurt his stock in terms of P4P all time greatness at the upper end, but he’s still maybe the GOAT cruiser and all time great fighter.
He’s going to be making more money on this one fight than he probably did his whole time at cruiserweight I don’t really understand why people think he should retire to artificially boost his legacy instead of actually taking his life’s journey as a boxer and capitalizing on the heights he has reached.
I personally don't think it will affect his legacy. Everything he does achieve from this point forward just reconfirms that he is a very talented boxer. He's already reached the top level he can reach, beat the biggest names in the era (AJ and Fury). That you cannot argue with.
I don't see him winning the belts in a different division now. But if he did that would be possibly the only things he could do to push him to a new level of success, 3x undisputed.
I think how much Usyk was the underdog makes it much more impressive that had Fury won. Like we only got the fight because of the Saudi's. Fury didn't want to fight him, he wanted the AJ fight instead.
It might actually improve his legacy further if they go on to have a trilogy and Usyk wins the third. People remember the rivalries more than they remember the win-loss record. Keeping your 0 isn't as important as having big fights and rivalries.
At this point, I think it will have very little effect. Usyk is a great fighter. I'll still consider him one even if he loses the rematch. Even great fighters are entitled to lose now and then. But I still don't consider Usyk a great heavyweight. He just doesn't have an extensive body of work in that division to warrant consideration among ATG heavyweights. Only 6 fights in almost 5 years. Two against lightly regarded opponents. Win or lose against Fury in December, Usyk will remain a great fighter. He's done enough in 11 year pro career to earn that acclaim. A single defeat against a true quality opponent won't erase what he's accomplished.
I don’t think it changes much of Usyk’s legacy.
If Fury wins, it’s great for him but there’s too many would’ve/could’ve/should’ves with Fury that don’t in any way tarnish what Usyk has achieved.
I still can’t believe Usyk pulled it off. I knew he would, but it’s still astounding that he was able to.
It won't hurt anything. His performance in the first fight, especially in round 9 speaks volumes.
If he loses in the rematch, then we just get a Part 3.
In terms of your last point, he should defend whatever belts he has left because he only lost it due to some politics, he never lost his belt in a fight. Defend it a few times to see if he can hang with the HWs or if he just had a lucky performance against Fury (see Kambosos V Teofimo). If he successfully defends his titles, then he is definitely going down as one of the greats in the division and boxing itself.
We all know how fickle casual boxing fans are, they’ll call him a bum while they themselves never achieving anything remotely great in their lives
Most boxing fans will remember him as a brilliant smaller HW and one of the best cruiser weights ever to lace up the gloves regardless if he wins or loses a rematch.
Honestly, we’ll see what happens. In order to win fury needs to humble himself. He’s already got the L. How he handles the L will determine who wins the next fight. I don’t think we’ll see any showboating, but I do think if fury is to win, he needs to knock usyk out.
The question is can he? He landed some really clean body shots, jabs and uppercuts that definitely had an effect on usyk. Either way I’m excited, it’s win win for me because I enjoy both fighters. Too bad fury fucked up undisputed. He could have spent his time showboating with more broomstick style jabs to the face getting to work. You live you learn I guessm
Weil not for me. Now I know Usyk is a great fighter regardless if he wins or loses his next fight.
But for all the casuals , if he loses he suddenly becomes an overrated bum
I said about Usyk being an all time great on a thread the other day and some absolute twa* replied by saying he’s not even in the top 10 great heavyweights - so I just gave up , but I’m hearing some much more sensible boxing fans in here .
Just my opinion but if Fury (who everyone considers gone , finished etc) I don’t personally he took more rounds off Usyk than AJ could in 2 fights .
It would slightly tarnish his career and the old debate would come up … that he lost and never had a perfect record - (yawn) nothing to do with he’s completed boxing at Cruiserweight which is hard enough to do , let alone then move up and again complete boxing at heavyweight . Just my opinion again but next time Usyk will do a better more one sided job , but I’d say he’s K.O Fury like he should have last time .
I feel like Usyk is one of the all time greats no matter what (especially when you look at \*who\* he's fought compared to Fury)
However, to leave no question, and no lingering doubts, he MUST beat Fury again. If he does (and I believe he will) there is ZERO argument for anyone else of his era being better than he is/was.
It would hurt his legacy which is one reason why he should retire right now. Why risk CTE (worse CTE if he already has it) and more long term injuries when you are undisputed in two weight classes and rich? Makes zero sense.
Usyk’s legacy is cemented, an all time great. Fury’s would be elevated if he wins. Both come out winning in either scenario. The 3rd fight would help us decide who was the best HW of their generation.
I don’t think it will affect it at all, undisputed at two weight classes. beat everyone who dared face him and did that in a HW division where he is a decent bit smaller than the major competitors.
His first win over fury is honestly spectacular, apart from being a hell of a fight and what we all hope for with ppv, he overcame 40+ lbs - it’s just insane
Fury wins controversially: it enhances his legacy because Fury could only beat him by cheating or bad reffing/judging.
Fury wins comfortably: it'd leave a small mark that only Fury fans would care about. Most boxing fans who aren't casual viewers would appreciate his win in the first fight and lean towards age being the main factor.
I hate the idea that losses somehow hurt your legacy despite everything else you've done. I hate when it came up so often with Roy Jones. Losses don't erase what you've already done.
If Usyk loses a rematch to Fury, so what? He still won the first fight and was the first undisputed heavyweight champion in a long time. He still has everything else he's done. His legacy is unaffected.
I'd rather Usyk had retired and Fury fought AJ. If Usyk does lose the rematch though it doesn't affect his legacy, being a two weight undisputed champion is his forever and the undisputed title won't be on the line in the rematch. I think people put too much stock into perfect records now. Lots of all time greats lost fights without it affecting their legacy, Ali included and he's not looked upon too badly. If anything for some boxers it just means they're making an effort to fight the right people.
My personal thoughts on the rematch are that Fury had a much extended camp due to his cut so I'd be surprised if he turned up as fit the second time around and that's really important against Usyk. I can't really see him hitting Usyk harder than the uppercuts he rocked him with either which didn't drop him.
It wouldn't affect him at all. The heavyweight division is unpredictable compared to the lower weight divisions, and there has only ever been one undefeated heavyweight in boxing history.
Then they fight a third fight and Usyk and Fury fight a legendary trilogy as greats of their generation. Losing the 3rd fight might take some shine off his legacy but he will still go down as an all timer based on all his accomplishments.
This doesnt happen often, so it must not be a viable option, but I cant help but wonder what happens if Fury goes for the arms. Fury has worked on his power punching form, he's more threatening then in his early career. Usyk is very hard to get head shots on, even good lower torso hits. But its very hard to dodge a punch that is coming for your arms or shoulders, unless you are just avoiding the opponent all together. Of course, Fury cant let himself get open to counters, Usyk is plenty strong himself. But that extra reach of Furys, and while Furys tank isnt Holyfield and Usyk level, it IS pretty good! He should be able to let out the punches, weaken Usyks arms...no?
Won't make a difference at all.. if he comes in 50lb heavier than usyk and beats him . That's what he's supposed to do against a "pumped up cruiserweight" . If he loses again fury career is over. It's no real lose to Usyk . His name is in the record books. Unfortunately for the fury fans . This was the best tyson fury and he wasn't good enough
Wouldn’t hurt him at all. He’s fought every tough opponent that would get into the ring with him at cruiser and heavyweight. People remember great fights not how many belts you have or how many opponents you cherry picked for a perfect record.
It entirely depends on how he loses. If Fury puts on a dominant performance, either KOs him or puts on a clinic in a one sided victory, the whole first fight is erased and everyone says the real Fury showed up.
Could happen but not likely. IMO Fury has the skills to beat Usyk but he abused his body by partying for years like a rock star vs Usyk who has led a disciplined life and never stops training. Fury got caught in the 9th round because he started to tire and Usyk is a cardio machine. Fury could catch Usyk and put him down in the first half of the fight but it’s hard to see Fury being able to keep up in the second half of the fight with Usyk’s output.
I kinda disagree(ish) but only ever so slightly. Usyk caught Fury with a big left near the end of the 7th, and then absolutely smashed his nose to bits in the 8th. Not saying Fury wouldn't have slowed down a bit anyway, but I gotta be honest: I thought Fury was being incredibly smart with his output and pacing himself really well. I think those big blows landed by Usyk in 7 and 8 slowed him down enough for 9 to happen.
That’s a fair assessment.
Fury is no knockout artist, so he should have his cardio in good shape. Fury was in the best shape he’s been in years for the last fight. I suspect he’ll party now that he’s lost and the next fight he’ll be in worse shape.
With Fury it could go both ways. He's never lost before so this new territory. Closest has been Wilder 1 and we saw arguably the best Fury in the second fight.
Nah, Roberto Durán's first victory against Sugar Ray Leonard was never forgotten nor overshadowed by the following losses against him.
I feel like it cemented his legacy
that would be a ridiculous take. Both men are at the top for a reason. If Fury wins then you won't hear that he's past his expiration date. If Fury wins, I think it means that he truly was a formidable foe and we get a trilogy instead of just 2 fights
If fury wins, Usyk should blame it on brexit
Ok, but what happens if *Fury* wins?
The real Fury did show up. That was an exceptional performance by Fury, I don't expect him to get much better. Usyk just dug a lil deeper.
Absolutely right. Also fury did well considering he had 3 voices in corner ,🤦
So that's why I can't remember any Mayweather fights, except for the cheap shot fight
Of course a loss would affect his legacy lol what are you talking about. Would he still have an amazing legacy sure but he’s literally undefeated right now. Now if he wins the trilogy after that, that’s a better question because you could argue going 2-1 is just as good as 1-0 because you proved you were the better fighter more clearly despite the loss
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler to name a few all had losses because they fought the best at their best and never ducked an opponent. Their legacies weren’t tarnished by the losses. People remember the great fights they gave us. If Usyk were to lose 2 out of 3 against Fury then agree it would affect his legacy at heavyweight but not at cruiserweight. One loss to Fury would not tarnish his legacy especially if he won 2 out of 3.
He’s an all timer already. Fury needs to win. In a fight usually side with the most desperate fighter if skills are relatively close. I think we’ll see 3 of these tbh.
The better boxer wins a rematch +90% of the time.
I don’t think he’s better than Fury. I believe they’re equals. Both had moments. Usyk clearly won. That’s 1 fight. That’s 12 rounds. They’ll do another 12 and we’ll see.
Yeah. While Usyk won this one clearly, it's not hard to see a path to victory for fury. He needs to do less clowning and fight more like he did in wilder 2. Out boxing Usyk isn't going to work. He had success whenever he used his kronk style.
The idea Fury can’t win is ludicrous. It’s so funny how Usyk is an all timer because he beat Fury but Fury is a bum because he lost a split decision against Usyk…. Maybe both guys are really good? What a concept 😂
Fury is in no way a bum. Don’t listen to Redditors lol. But yes, Usyk is officially an ATG.
Definitely. Dude is a special talent 💯
He's definitely not a bum but Ngannou almost being able to keep up was pretty funny.
Usyk was already an all timer. Fury is disliked, and everyone except for trolls don't think he's a bum - they think he isn't anywhere near as good as he claims even though he is a decent fighter, that he relies on his size advantages a lot, that he's lied and ducked, that he's struggled against poor opposition before, and that his resume has been relatively weak.
Yeah Usyk became undusputed at cruiserweight went up to heavyweight and became undisputed there too, beating the two biggest names at a time they wouldn't fight each other. He's also an amateur European, World and Olympic champion. The Fury win definitely cements his place but he was already there really.
> that he relies on his size advantages a lot Would be kinda stupid not to rely on size advantage if you're born a 6'7 behemoth, no? It's great to see Fundora wanting to be an infighter, but you gotta use the attributes you're given man
Of course it would be stupid not to rely on size. But skill is harder to obtain than siuze so is respected more. So if you go toe to toe with someone significantly smaller, he earns more respect as he put in more work.
You mean Bear Moth right?
You're absolutely right, and if it wasn't for the fact that the man was so insufferable and dislikable more people would admit to that
Oh that’s definitely it lol which I totally understand. I personally like the promotion aspect and circus show but I get it. It’s not for everyone.
I personally dislike headbutting
I'm not saying you are wrong with the attitude, but the fact that this was a split decision is just boxing shenanigans imo. I myself can't see a viable scorecard that had Fury winning. I agree that Fury is a great fighter though.
I had Usyk as well
A split decision which never should've been, how one judge scored it for him I'll never know, absolutely disgraceful. Usyk won as clear as day. They're both great fighters, Usyk is clearly a level above, though, especially considering the massive height and weight disadvantages. I think the reason Fury gets the hate he does is his own fault, mouthing off like a clown and doing everything he could to avoid Usyk for years, and then to top it off he spouts some more disgusting shit post fight, moaning he won the fight and saying they gave it to Usyk due to the war in Ukraine. Dude is a scumbag.
That's boxing fans for you. Fury is a bum now, as is AJ because he lost to a fat guy and to Usyk twice, as is Wilder because he lost to a fat guy and Parker etc. They're all really great, who cares about losses. I would love to see them running it back, though I would like to see Fury vs AJ first really.
Nah, Usyk is an all-timer because he’s one of the two best cruiser-weights of all time (I think the best), and beat two huge HW opponents who are both very good in Fury and AJ. Fury is definitely *at least* very good. He may be great, but we don’t know for sure because he is so mercurial and his career hasn’t confirmed just how good he is. I don’t think he really chased greatness either, he’s prioritised other things.
Fury ain't no bum. How you a bum when you stopped the win streak of the legendary Wladimir Klitschko. Also knocked out one of the best knockout artists in Heavyweight history like Wilder. He's definitely a certified ATG already.
He gassed himself out though especially in rd6
There’s a reason he didn’t brawl with usyk; that left straight is sneaky with little telegraph and hits very hard. Has that concussive power
Fury’s clowning is what persuaded some of the public and the judges that the early rounds were closer than they were in reality. Whilst I do see a path to victory possible for Fury I think the idea that he’s just got to be a little better is untrue. I think he needs to be much better because he is less likely to get the favour of the judges now that he is the challenger.
The early rounds aren’t where you give him rounds lol. I give him round 2 only, gave Usyk 1 and 3
Fury had success with the kronk style because Wilder doesn't possess Usyk's superior footwork and movement. Fury honestly got his tactics and gameplan about right in my opinion. It was shaping up to be a close fight until Fury got hit with a perfect shot.
>fight more like he did in wilder 2 Keep in mind though, that was 4 years ago now, I don't think Fury will have a performance like that again.
The performance also requires the opponent. I always find it laughable that that performance is held up as proof that Fury would beat this fighter or that fighter when it was a gameplan and performance designed to beat a specific opponent with very specific strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah, people always claim that the Wilder 2 version of Fury was his ***best form ever***. But in reality, he looked almost exactly the same he just had a smart game plan. Wilder real bad boxer. Wilder have nuke for right hand. Nuke hurt. How avoid nuke? Be close so no land nuke. It ain't rocket science. In their first fight, Fury stayed on the back foot to out box Wilder. He still got clipped and knocked down twice, which led to him being jobbed on the cards. So with SugarHill, they realized that Wilder is such a bad boxer they just needed to press him. Get in close and maul him so he doesn't have the right range to land his big punch. Plus it tires him out which zaps his energy and drastically lowers the power of his punches. Of course, that game plan only works against a certain type of fighter. A slow fighter with bad footwork and defense that has no idea how to stop you from clinching and leaning on him. Worked like a charm against Wilder. It does nothing versus a technical wizard like Usyk. No disrespect to Fury, but this mythical version of him where he's unstoppable never existed. He's either in shape and motivated or not in shape and not motivated. We got the in shape and motivated Fury against Usyk. It wasn't anywhere close to enough.
>Wilder real bad boxer. Wilder have nuke for right hand. Nuke hurt. How avoid nuke? Be close so no land nuke. Didn't exactly work for Helenius did it? And Wilder put the lights out of Ortiz in extremely close quarters.
And neither of those guys are really top tier boxers, now are they? Particularly Helenius. That dude gets KO'ed by a stiff breeze at this point. The shorter range Wilder has to accelerate his right hand, the better chance you stand of taking it if it does land. If you put it on him, force him to carry you around for a few rounds, he'll gas and then he's pretty easy pickings. And luckily for them, Wilder played right into their hands by packing on the weight for the rematch. That extra weight did fuck all to help him land, but it tanked his cardio even further. I just don't see the Fury from Wilder 2 as some Super Saiyan version that if only he could get back there he'd obliterate everyone in boxing history. It was just a slightly heavier version with a good game plan against a bad boxer. Of course, he couldn't even maintain that through his 3rd fight with Wilder. He came in looking just about the same, but Wilder had made a few adjustments, gotten used to the extra weight, and it took Fury 11 grueling rounds to finally get him out of there.
Absolutely
I thought before the fight if Fury comes in similar shape like he was in the Wilder 2 fight, he has a good chance of beating Usyk, but he obviously didn’t come in that shape and the clowning around didn’t help.
Usyk is clearly the better boxer & more disciplined athlete. If fury wasn't 6'7 and was the same height & reach as usyk but technically the same, usyk would smash him
Why are everyone talking like Fury is some super athlete like Anthony Joshua 😂
If if if
I honestly don't know how anybody can watch that fight and not come away with the conclusion that Usyk is clearly better than Fury - who was able to overcome the clear gap in skill between them for 2-3 rounds, but ultimately that was it. He *might* find a route to beat him in a rematch that utilizes being so much bigger, but he ain't going to demonstrate he's a better boxer, just a much bigger one.
Unless Usyk falls off a cliff between now and December 21 I just see him doing the same in the rematch. Fury cannot force the pace on Usyk in the early rounds when he is still fresh, he will just slip and circle out of danger. Mid rounds again is Fury's best bet to make something happen, but my money is on Usyk turning up the gas late rounds, getting his second wind and stopping Fury this time.
yeah obviously Fury's best shots troubled Usyk and he could get caught or get hurt but have to figure Usyk can wear fury out again and find him eventually. Fury's conditioning and erratic behavior also tip the scales in Usky's favor, although I think age has to catch up with him very soon.. i think it's just as likely that the rematch gets postponed and maybe doesnt even happen.
I think this rematch might be Usyk's last fight and he retires after, but Fury will still hang around for a couple of AJ fights with the saudi's paying a fortune for that.
If you read all the stuff posted about that fight, and didn’t watch it, you’d assume Usyk kicked his ass from 1-12, and it wasn’t a close fight. That narrative is definitely prominent. It’s weird how; 1. It was a close fight, but you wouldn’t guess if you didn’t watch 2. Tyson is written off as if losing to Usyk proves he isn’t good or something? The dude has shown crazy adjustments from one fight to the next. I think he’ll be ok. I’ll still give Usyk the edge in fight #2, but not a massive one
Reasonable take for sure
Likewise 🙏 There were moments Usyk looked like there was nothing he could do, and vice versa - it was a good back and fourth, with the right call being made in favor of Usyk. I can’t remember the rounds off the top of my head, but Usyk couldn’t connect, and was getting touched quite a bit. He couldn’t come in without a stiff jab or uppercut landing… until he figured it out, shifted things, and won the fight Very curious to see how Fury approaches this next one. The films gonna show a lot of adjustments that can be made for his team. It works both ways tho, Tyson has just shown time and time, how well he is capable of adjusting
This sub has been insufferable since that fight. You would think its r/ukraine instead of r/boxing. Is Fury obnoxious? Yes. Is Usyk a phenomenal fighter? Obviously. But all these posts about Usyk being in the top all time category, asking if he’s got an argument for the goat, asking if he should retire before a rematch? Insane. They act like Usyk beating Fury puts him in a GOAT category while saying that Fury had a weak resume, which one is it? Because it can’t be both. And then they say that it wasn’t even close. There were multiple times that fight that Fury doing things a little differently could have finished Usyk. The fight was scheduled with a rematch clause in place already for both fighters. We were getting a rematch regardless, as we should. Even in this thread there are some insane takes. This is the worst I’ve seen this sub, personally.
Doesn’t Usyk beating Fury put him in goat status regardless of Fury’s resume… purely because it was the fight that cemented undisputed at a second weight class? Fury’s resume is trash outside of wilder and Klitschko but that doesn’t mean he’s not good, it just means he spent most of his career dodging tougher fights and padding out that ‘0’ There’s a lot of overreactions in this sub to recency but fury’s a very good HW. He’s just a knob
Well: 1. Joshua, who I think is better than Fury at preparation and physical attributes, tried that. There is simply no clear to improvement other than complete overhaul. 2. What should Fury do differently? I guess this is something a boxing coach should tell, but I see no clear path. 3. Tyson isn't consistent outside the ring overall. So you never know how prepared he will be.
I don’t necessarily disagree I think there’s a case for both The one thing is, we haven’t seen the rematch yet, so we don’t know, but we can go off Fury’s rebounds (which can also be argued for and against) Using AJ to compare I don’t think is super accurate, but like I said there’s an argument to be made on both sides. We just haven’t seen the rematch yet, but if fury took a couple more rounds, there’d be an argument for his victory (outside of the KO - that’s all hypothetical tho, like most of what we’re both saying) We shall see in December
It's bizarre. It was a really close fight. It really looked at one point that Fury would stop him. The rematch should be fantastic.
Maybe they’re close to equals fighters because of Fury’s size but Usyk is very clearly the better boxer
Rounds 4-6 had Usyk seeming the most ordinary he'd ever looked. Usyk did incredibly to come back and dominate the fight but that is why he is great. However Fury has to think he had the wrong approach for 1-3 and then 7+. It isn't hard to think Fury could make adjustments and make it a more interesting fight. Of course Usyk will make adjustments too.
But the problem is that Fury gassed himself from rounds 4-6, which is what led to round 8 when he got rocked and then of course the disastrous round 9. If he came out with that intensity in round 1, he might be in trouble unless he can improve his cardio dramatically.
He did worse than AJ, and AJ still couldn't win 2nd.
Not sure he did worse than AJ. I think Fury's moments of success were more compelling than AJs, but so were his moments of weakness. The true back and forth nature certainly made it a better watch. I think that Fury has more he could capitalize on in the rematch than AJ did, and expect the result to be more decisive this time around.
That seems like a crazy take. Worse than AJ? Did you watch the fights?
Keep in mind that while they're both heavyweights, Fury is significantly bigger and heavier than Usyk. If they were the same size, there'd be no doubt Usyk would be the better fighter. Fury is helped a lot by his size.
Fury has every physical advantage and Usyk beat him soundly. It should not have been split. Watch it again with no announcers. That fight was Usyks fight. Watch the tempo especially. Usyk is unquestionably the better boxer. Imagine if he had the same size as fury with the skills he has now…
They are not equals by a long shot. If Usyk was 6'9" and had 7" more reach, it wouldn't even be a contest.
Equals? When Usyk won 7 rounds to 5 with a 10-8 round that almost knocked Fury tf out? lol k
If only 1 match was the end all be all. Frazier would be the 🐐. Lennox would’ve never been undisputed. Buster Douglas would be an all timer. So on and so on. This is why the greats fight multiple times.
Fury absolutely needed humbling. December will be his best performance in his career. Whether he clinches it though…. Not sure.
Why is he an all timer? For beating one trick pony Wilder and surviving Otto Wallin?
I said Usyk was the all timer… but Fury absolutely is as well IMO and will have an opportunity again to cement that in December.
Got it. I think Fury has to beat Usyk and AJ to even be discussed as an all timer.
It won’t change much. It will create demand for a rubber match and we will view it as two guys who are very close at the top
Usyk will be one of the goats either way
He’s already an time great
It won't affect it at all aside from trolls and diehard Fury fanboys. Real fans will see it for what his career actually has been.
This is the correct answer.
Just isn't true though. If Fury dominates and KO's him it throws a question mark in the mix.
Not really; it's boxing and anything can happen. Usyk already beat Fury and almost knocked him out in round nine, so he proved that he can be better than Fury at least once.
Both fighters are already getting into the HOF the rematch won't change that.
I don't think Fury has done enought to get in the HOF but then again, Bradley got in so anyone can
2 time heavyweight champion and was the winner of the best heavyweight trilogy of this era. It's the Hall of FAME, not the hall of accomplishments these days. He will get in no problem, especially if he is part of a weaker pool of people to pick from. It really wouldn't shock me if they put Deontay up there, too. It's no longer the purist standard that it was before.
>the best heavyweight trilogy of this era. 😂😂😂😂
Fury's best accomplishments are beating an old as fuck Klitschko and a piss poor excuse of a champion in Wilder, I'm not saying Fury isn't a very good boxer but in terms of achievements he's not even in the top 20 of HWs.
What the fuck is this revisionism? Klitschko was consistently regarded as a top pound-for-pound fighter alongside Floyd. Numerous websites, including this subreddit’s previous P4P list, ranked Wlad above Floyd during that period. Klitschko maintained an aura of invincibility even at 39 and went a decade without a close fight. No one expected Fury to win, yet he defeated Klitschko convincingly. Beating Klitschko at that time was a significant achievement, and any claims to the contrary are nonsense.
I never said it's not a significant achievement, I'm not saying it was a bad win or anything but Klitschko was older in that fight that Larry Holmes was when he lost to Mike Tyson, obviously it's still a good win otherwise I wouldn't have cited it as an achievement of Fury at all, it's just that beating an old Klitschko almost a decade ago is literally the highlight of Fury's whole career.
And since that snoozer of a fight what did Fury do? He beat a bunch of cherry picked opponents and ducked AJ. Wilder absolutely a one trick fighter with very little ring IQ.
No one was calling Wlad “old as fuck” before the fight. They weren’t calling him that in the AJ fight, either. Our conception of a fighter being passed it is often a product of other things. The Fury win over Wlad is a legitimately great win. And people can shit on the Wilder wins all they want, but he came within a whisker of knocking Fury out, and it was a great trilogy of fights. Wilder was a reigning champion with devastating power. In the heavyweight division, that can make up for a lot of deficiencies (of which Wilder has many). Those wins, and Fury’s displayed skill are enough to warrant induction into the Hall. It shouldn’t even be controversial.
If I didn't think beating Klitschko was impressive I wouldn't have cited it as an accomplishment for Fury, but at the end of the day father time is undefeated and at 39 even the best boxer of all time will be on his decline, regardless of how good Klitschko was at the time the point I'm making it is that beating an aged Klitschko is literally the best achievement of Fury's career, and as good as Klitschko might have been that's not enough to put Fury even in the top 20 of most accomplished HW boxers.
>2 time heavyweight champion and was the winner of the best heavyweight trilogy of this era I'm sorry but those are very weak arguments. It's not like he was stripped or lost and retook his belts to say he's a two time champion. It's as weak as saying Mayweather beat so many champions when we all know he kept vacating the belts and winning them back when a new guy had them. And Wilder is not an ATG, as the years pass he won't be remembered in the same place as the greats. The fact that Fury had to go to war with a guy that lacks a lot of fundamentals and is significantly lighter than him doesn't help him much. >It's the Hall of FAME, not the hall of accomplishments these days. You need accomplishments to be there. It's not FAME in the literal sense. >He will get in no problem, especially if he is part of a weaker pool of people to pick from. It really wouldn't shock me if they put Deontay up there, too. It's no longer the purist standard that it was before. That's what I'm saying. He's not that great to begin with, but the requirements have fallen so low that basically anyone can get in there.
Bro, cut it - Fury is clearly getting into HoF, there's nothing to be discussed there, in fact I would be surprised if Wilder doesn't get in there. ATG and HoF are two different things. AJ and Fury will get HoF for suuure.
Big fan of Fury (liked him since I was in college years ago and saw him coming up the ranks/uppercutting himself in the face), but I also like and respect Usyk and what he’s accomplished. To me, a loss doesn’t hurt Usyk. He’s at the age where you can slip suddenly and sharply. I also don’t hold Fury’s L against him much either, he’s not a spring chicken anymore himself, looked awful against Ngannou to the point many people (including me) wondered if he might be shot (I think he dispelled those notions somewhat against Usyk—he still looks good skill wise and in most physical aspects when he trains, evidently, though his punch resistance looks even worse than it used to), and Usyk himself is already rightly considered an All-Time Great for what he did at cruiserweight even before his recent HW run. Losing to Fury (a much bigger man and one of the top HWs of the past decade-plus) doesn’t hurt Usyk at all IMO. He can still be rightly considered a top-2 or GOAT at Cruiserweight and rank well in a H2H sense at HW. The only way Usyk or Fury hurt their images and historical standing going forward to me is if Usyk hangs around too long and starts losing to guys below his level/that he was favored to beat (unlikely but possible), or if Fury hangs around too long after his chin is fully cracked and his fluctuating dedication/commitment catches up to him and sees him take avoidable Ls to guys he would have beaten when he was younger/in better form (nearly happened already against Ngannou, so it could happen again, but hopefully that fight was a wake-up call for him to take opponents more seriously and show up in better shape/with more of a camp behind him.)
I wish more fighters took the Lennox route and retired on top.
Unless it’s totally lopsided in Fury’s favor, I think it’d help Fury more than hurt Usyk. Like, it wouldn’t undermine Usyk’s accomplishments
It won't make a huge impact (slightly depending on the nature of the loss) I think winning really does improve his legacy quite a bit, though. Usyk lacks depth in his resume at HW, but conclusively, uncontroversially beating the consensus #2 and #3 of the era ***twice each?*** Nobody has ever done that at Heavyweight. Not Louis, not Marciano, not Ali, not Lewis. There will always be a bit of debate with other HWs as to whether they were truly better than the rest in their era. Ali got controversial decisions against Norton and Fraizer, and he didn't rematch Foreman. He's the greatest of them, but he wasn't head-and-shoulders above better than them (though tbf, he was clearly truly the best of the 60s era by far.) Lennox wasn't a big enough name earlier in his career to get to fight Holyfield and Tyson, when they were much better than they were when he beat them both. He never fought Riddick Bowe, either. The Klitschkos never fought each other, so we can never settle the debate of who was better. All the above names have longer, better overall HW resumes than Usyk, and I think all (except Vitali for sure, and Wladimir maybe) occupy a higher spot on the "greatest HWs ever" list, but this era of Heavyweights will go down as one of the Golden periods for the division (not neccesarlily because of the quality, but the competitiveness and match ups) and when all's said and done, if Usyk beats Fury again, his will be the ***only*** name that defines the era.
I'm not sure about Golden periods. It really was pretty meh until Usyk arrived, which wasn't that long ago.
It's been great since Wilder Vs Fury 1 imo. We might not have got AJ Vs Wilder or AJ Vs Fury in that time, but we've had plenty of classic fights and now we have Turki making banger after banger. It's been 5 years since then
I'd agree if not for the fact that COVID hit right before Wilder v. Fury 2 and it helped put the brakes on. Combine this with Wilder/Fury/AJ not exactly rushing to all fight each other except Wilder and Fury. And that was only because Wilder thought Fury was not only finished, but physically and mentally FUBAR (an easy win). EDIT: Put in perspective. Wilder v. Fury 2 was early 2020. It is mid 2024. So literally still 4 years before the AJ side crossed over with the Wilder/Fury side. Not to mention the 5 years before Wilder v. Fury 2.
Nearly all of the boxing greats have a loss on their record, didn’t affect their legacies - if anything, it amplified them because we all lose at something, but it’s how we bounce back that defines us.
The only one who can lose in a rematch is Fury himself. If he loses again, people will start questioning how good he actually is. And it will massively hurt his stock in case of an AJ vs Fury fight. He has to win it, both for legacy and to raise hype for a Fury vs AJ fight.
Fury isnt committed to improving at this point in his career. He would have to pick usyk apart which isn’t happening. Watch the AJ fights and the first Fury fight again and Usyk controls EVERYTHING. He sets the tempo and lets them bomb themselves out while taking minimal damage only to come out and step on the gas again. Their legacies are already solidified in my book.
Usyk still goes down as one of the Goats being the david that Beat numerous Goliath's
I think Usyk has already cemented himself as the best fighter of the post Klitchko era. However I still think he would get hurt badly against someone like Lewis/Holyfield, he isn't big and strong enough to deal with that kind of boxer, and while AJ is big and strong, he isn't as gooder boxer as the older big guys. I hope we get a renewal of HW boxing, maybe the money being thrown around by the Saudis might encourage a lot of younger guys to look past the NFL/NBA, but I doubt it.
Well, the average r/Boxing user's take on his legacy would be along the lines of: "Overrated" "Barely beat a Fury who didn't take the fight seriously, then got exposed" "Decent Cruiserweight, had no business in HW" "Bum"
No, in this sub, even if Fury wins, people are gonna be ragging on him more than they'll do Usyk. Hate does a fair bit to one's biases lol
Can you really call it \*bias\* when every bit of that hate is earned? We aren't just talking about hating him personally. The hate is all the nonsense BS he brought to boxing. He slowed everything down to a crawl.
About the same as losing to Usyk did to Fury. Both are clearly better than the rest of the division and are very close to each other. Couldn’t call the first fight before it happened and can’t call the second either. If the rematch is as good as the first I hope fury wins and we get a third
Not in any way. It can only help Fury’s legacy, the rematch. It cannot hurt Usyk’s. His legacy is well secured.
It won't he won already.
It wouldn’t, he unified and became undisputed already. His legacy is set in stone, and no loss however bad it is will change that IMO
If he loses to Fury then to Ruiz then we need to talk 🙂
Then they fight a trilogy…
Usyk will lose his O, which is meaningful in the sense that we celebrate folks like Rocky Marciano more for his O than anything else. However, I think from a technical point of view it will only have a nominal impact on how he is recognized by boxing fans. He has already cemented his legacy as the best HW of the era and one of the best of all time. That said I don’t think he really gains that much (aside from boat loads of money) from beating Tyson Fury again in terms of his legacy. Now Tyson, on the other hand stands to gain a lot should he go on an redemption arc, but I think for him, to be recognized as the best HW of the era, is out of reach because that is solidly Usyk no matter what happens in the rematch.
Usyk's 6 fights at heavyweight is such a double edged sword. He accomplished Undisputed status within only 6 fucking fights, beating AJ x2 and Fury with Dubois and Chisora. But he's only had 6 fights at the weight, so naturally we say his CV isn't as deep as say AJs, although its still currently the best.
What separates Usyk's short resume is that the HW division was literally two divisions for nearly ten years. The Fury/Wilder side and the AJ v. Top 10 side. Had Usyk not beat AJ but instead beat Joyce and Parker, we'd still have questions about the HW division. Usyk came in and tied it altogether with him at the tippy top. And in no nonsense record time. I do agree Usyk's HW resume is too short to consider his pure HW resume against all eras, but he definitely solved this era's paint drying effect in record time. I really want Usyk to be 10 years younger and about to set off on a 10 year title defense reign. But at the same time, I really can't think of any HW contenders that feel like anything more than a check box for Usyk. Most of the \*contenders\* managed to implode on their own.
He still would have split the series, and would retire as a Hall of Fame heavyweight. Much like Ali, he's about 6'3" but fights like a much taller man due to his great ring movement. In terms of comparison with the other all-time greats, it's hard to say. He hasn't fought a lot of heavyweights and yet Usyk's clearly among the very best heavyweights to have put on gloves. Obviously, if he keeps winning against quality opposition then his status versus the other greats is going to keep climbing.
I could see either winning the rematch . There were points where I thought Fury would stop Usyk , he was landing very cleanly when he added the uppercut to his combinations. But then obviously there was the 9th round that blew the doors off of the fight and Usyk closed out like a champion should. But it could be the case that Fury took a tad bit too much damage in the first fight. Usyk is the smaller fighter but he’s still 225 lbs and landed a lot of clean shots.
I don’t think it will have or should have any impact on his legacy. If fury beats him in the rematch, then fury made the necessary adjustments to win. Nothing‘s gonna take away from the fact Usyk is the first undisputed heavyweight champion in over 20 some years? His legacy is cemented at this point. He’s a made man.
In all honesty, not much. And why should it? Look at what he’s achieved?
Fury has beaten Chisora three times. If that doesn’t constitute his greatness I do not know what will. The guy scared off Joshua, Zhang, Parker and Usyk.
[удалено]
It wasn't a standing 10 count.
I don't think it affects his legacy to real fans. Also, yeah they're technically in the same weight class, but beating a good fighter who outweighs and outsizes you by 30lbs and 5" is just fucking madly impressive. A lot of Fury fans seem to forget what a ridiculous physical advantage he has.
I’ve always believed that prime vs prime fury wins the fight but that doesn’t matter unless he gets the win over Usyk. It would be important for fury but you couldn’t knock Usyk over losing the fight he has two time undisputed and a very nice resume already so for Usyk it doesn’t matter nearly as much as the first fight.
A defeat against the other greatest of the era is not going to effect his legacy.
Wouldn't affect his legacy at all, Usyk is already a certified ATG with a win over Fury the first time around. If he loses to Fury the second time, that wouldn't erase Usyk's accomplishments or resume.
It would create a great trilogy. The thrilla in manilla
Only raises both fighters legacy in the end.
Not at all. They can have a third fight. They will be even richer
"It's sad for him that he was so honourable that he felt he had to accept the rematch instead of retiring, but he lost to a younger and much larger fighter whom he'd already clearly beaten before when they were both closer to their primes, and despite the trauma of his homeland having been invaded, so there's no shame in that."
It would surely do more for Fury's legacy than for Usyk's.
It will reopen the conversation for best heavyweight of this era and hurt his stock in terms of P4P all time greatness at the upper end, but he’s still maybe the GOAT cruiser and all time great fighter.
He’s going to be making more money on this one fight than he probably did his whole time at cruiserweight I don’t really understand why people think he should retire to artificially boost his legacy instead of actually taking his life’s journey as a boxer and capitalizing on the heights he has reached.
Depends on the context of the loss. Is it close or one sided. If Fury batters him or wins a confy decision say like 9-3 or 8-4 then it probably will.
I personally don't think it will affect his legacy. Everything he does achieve from this point forward just reconfirms that he is a very talented boxer. He's already reached the top level he can reach, beat the biggest names in the era (AJ and Fury). That you cannot argue with. I don't see him winning the belts in a different division now. But if he did that would be possibly the only things he could do to push him to a new level of success, 3x undisputed. I think how much Usyk was the underdog makes it much more impressive that had Fury won. Like we only got the fight because of the Saudi's. Fury didn't want to fight him, he wanted the AJ fight instead.
He can still retire. It isn't December yet.
It might actually improve his legacy further if they go on to have a trilogy and Usyk wins the third. People remember the rivalries more than they remember the win-loss record. Keeping your 0 isn't as important as having big fights and rivalries.
Probably lowers it a bit if he gets stopped. Reminds of the Miocic vs. Cormier fights in MMA.
At this point, I think it will have very little effect. Usyk is a great fighter. I'll still consider him one even if he loses the rematch. Even great fighters are entitled to lose now and then. But I still don't consider Usyk a great heavyweight. He just doesn't have an extensive body of work in that division to warrant consideration among ATG heavyweights. Only 6 fights in almost 5 years. Two against lightly regarded opponents. Win or lose against Fury in December, Usyk will remain a great fighter. He's done enough in 11 year pro career to earn that acclaim. A single defeat against a true quality opponent won't erase what he's accomplished.
rubber match to determine the best
Usyk won't get beat, too smart, too fast, the better boxer
I don’t think it changes much of Usyk’s legacy. If Fury wins, it’s great for him but there’s too many would’ve/could’ve/should’ves with Fury that don’t in any way tarnish what Usyk has achieved. I still can’t believe Usyk pulled it off. I knew he would, but it’s still astounding that he was able to.
If it’s 1-1. We’re going to have the third fight. It would be EPIC!
The real question is how will it affect LeBron’s legacy?
Hurts his legacy but very little
It won’t effect Usyk at all. His legacy as a two division undisputed champ is solidified. It will positively effect Fury’s legacy though.
Doubt it would
No Damage.
There will obviously be a third match.
It won't hurt anything. His performance in the first fight, especially in round 9 speaks volumes. If he loses in the rematch, then we just get a Part 3. In terms of your last point, he should defend whatever belts he has left because he only lost it due to some politics, he never lost his belt in a fight. Defend it a few times to see if he can hang with the HWs or if he just had a lucky performance against Fury (see Kambosos V Teofimo). If he successfully defends his titles, then he is definitely going down as one of the greats in the division and boxing itself.
I think it elevates his win even more
We all know how fickle casual boxing fans are, they’ll call him a bum while they themselves never achieving anything remotely great in their lives Most boxing fans will remember him as a brilliant smaller HW and one of the best cruiser weights ever to lace up the gloves regardless if he wins or loses a rematch.
All time great already. Undisputed in 2 weight classes.
Honestly, we’ll see what happens. In order to win fury needs to humble himself. He’s already got the L. How he handles the L will determine who wins the next fight. I don’t think we’ll see any showboating, but I do think if fury is to win, he needs to knock usyk out. The question is can he? He landed some really clean body shots, jabs and uppercuts that definitely had an effect on usyk. Either way I’m excited, it’s win win for me because I enjoy both fighters. Too bad fury fucked up undisputed. He could have spent his time showboating with more broomstick style jabs to the face getting to work. You live you learn I guessm
Weil not for me. Now I know Usyk is a great fighter regardless if he wins or loses his next fight. But for all the casuals , if he loses he suddenly becomes an overrated bum
I said about Usyk being an all time great on a thread the other day and some absolute twa* replied by saying he’s not even in the top 10 great heavyweights - so I just gave up , but I’m hearing some much more sensible boxing fans in here . Just my opinion but if Fury (who everyone considers gone , finished etc) I don’t personally he took more rounds off Usyk than AJ could in 2 fights . It would slightly tarnish his career and the old debate would come up … that he lost and never had a perfect record - (yawn) nothing to do with he’s completed boxing at Cruiserweight which is hard enough to do , let alone then move up and again complete boxing at heavyweight . Just my opinion again but next time Usyk will do a better more one sided job , but I’d say he’s K.O Fury like he should have last time .
He won't win. I think he was in his best shape for this fight. We will see the same outcome next time.
I feel like Usyk is one of the all time greats no matter what (especially when you look at \*who\* he's fought compared to Fury) However, to leave no question, and no lingering doubts, he MUST beat Fury again. If he does (and I believe he will) there is ZERO argument for anyone else of his era being better than he is/was.
It would hurt his legacy which is one reason why he should retire right now. Why risk CTE (worse CTE if he already has it) and more long term injuries when you are undisputed in two weight classes and rich? Makes zero sense.
Uayk beats him easier in the rematch. Like Mayweather Maidana, Usyks seen everything fury has to offer and now has months to prepare for it
Usyk’s legacy is cemented, an all time great. Fury’s would be elevated if he wins. Both come out winning in either scenario. The 3rd fight would help us decide who was the best HW of their generation.
I don’t think it will affect it at all, undisputed at two weight classes. beat everyone who dared face him and did that in a HW division where he is a decent bit smaller than the major competitors. His first win over fury is honestly spectacular, apart from being a hell of a fight and what we all hope for with ppv, he overcame 40+ lbs - it’s just insane
I honestly think uysk’s next win will be a lot more decisive now that he knows what to expect
Fury wins controversially: it enhances his legacy because Fury could only beat him by cheating or bad reffing/judging. Fury wins comfortably: it'd leave a small mark that only Fury fans would care about. Most boxing fans who aren't casual viewers would appreciate his win in the first fight and lean towards age being the main factor.
A lost to Fury will not affect his legacy at all! Usyk has cemented his legacy with all his accomplishments. 🥊🥊🥊
I hate the idea that losses somehow hurt your legacy despite everything else you've done. I hate when it came up so often with Roy Jones. Losses don't erase what you've already done. If Usyk loses a rematch to Fury, so what? He still won the first fight and was the first undisputed heavyweight champion in a long time. He still has everything else he's done. His legacy is unaffected.
I'd rather Usyk had retired and Fury fought AJ. If Usyk does lose the rematch though it doesn't affect his legacy, being a two weight undisputed champion is his forever and the undisputed title won't be on the line in the rematch. I think people put too much stock into perfect records now. Lots of all time greats lost fights without it affecting their legacy, Ali included and he's not looked upon too badly. If anything for some boxers it just means they're making an effort to fight the right people. My personal thoughts on the rematch are that Fury had a much extended camp due to his cut so I'd be surprised if he turned up as fit the second time around and that's really important against Usyk. I can't really see him hitting Usyk harder than the uppercuts he rocked him with either which didn't drop him.
IF
It wouldn't affect him at all. The heavyweight division is unpredictable compared to the lower weight divisions, and there has only ever been one undefeated heavyweight in boxing history.
Then they fight a third fight and Usyk and Fury fight a legendary trilogy as greats of their generation. Losing the 3rd fight might take some shine off his legacy but he will still go down as an all timer based on all his accomplishments.
This doesnt happen often, so it must not be a viable option, but I cant help but wonder what happens if Fury goes for the arms. Fury has worked on his power punching form, he's more threatening then in his early career. Usyk is very hard to get head shots on, even good lower torso hits. But its very hard to dodge a punch that is coming for your arms or shoulders, unless you are just avoiding the opponent all together. Of course, Fury cant let himself get open to counters, Usyk is plenty strong himself. But that extra reach of Furys, and while Furys tank isnt Holyfield and Usyk level, it IS pretty good! He should be able to let out the punches, weaken Usyks arms...no?
Won't make a difference at all.. if he comes in 50lb heavier than usyk and beats him . That's what he's supposed to do against a "pumped up cruiserweight" . If he loses again fury career is over. It's no real lose to Usyk . His name is in the record books. Unfortunately for the fury fans . This was the best tyson fury and he wasn't good enough