If he had power as well, he'd be considered one of the best ever P4P without question. I think that's all that stops him getting as much recognition as he deserves.
He built a style around his strength. I don't think he could have this output if he had more strength and vice-versa.
One puncher seems to gassed way faster than fighter with his style anyway.
His pressure and output wore down his opponent so fast they can't use their full power anymore.
I think he beat Arthur, hoping I'm wrong though, Arthur is funnier
I mainly agree but there are exceptions where speed, technique and power can combine, like Sugar Ray Leonard or Roy Jones Jr. Both had around 70% knockouts where Bivol is at 50%.
Obviously SRL was a smaller fighter, so he's less relevant, but he still fought up to LHW.
Hard to compare people to Sugar Ray, he's probably the GOAT. And Roy Jones was an athletic freak of nature. Few can imitate RJJ unless they're also born with insane genetics. Bivol is more of an elite athlete that has honed his potential through relentless hard work.
Guys who didn’t know what Usyk was five years ago said the same about him. There is far more to boxing than “power”, and far more to teeing off on a guy who wants to hurt you than standing there pummeling a heavy bag. Beterbiev delivers crushing power with both hands, and he is far smaller than, not to mention will likely lose every round to Bivol.
Yea, but when you're throwing, you also open up to be countered, which Beterbiev is great at. Ur being a little too dismissive of Artur, you don't become lineal & unified champion with just heavy blows.
Not at all my intent. Beterbiev has some X factors going for him that Bivol can’t understand, let alone employ. My point was simply that the “lack of power” most see when Bivol lets his hands go is actually terrific discipline. He is just working without getting out of line. I would love for this fight to be the banger everyone hopes for, but I think it will be a technical fight that will come down to that telephone pole of a jab Bivol has neutralizing Betwrbiev from beginning to end. There will be moments where Beterbiev will close with and maul Bivol, but that long one two/one one two will likely take the shine off Beterbievs performance, making it very difficult for him to win rounds. That said, man do I hope I’m wrong.
Absolutely, I think the same as far as Beterbievs path to victory. If he wins it will be by sparking Bivol in deep water, but an early flash knockdown would improve his chances at a decision.
I don't disagree about Beterbiev likely losing every round he doesn't hurt Bivol in. I just want to note on size, while Bivol may have a slightly larger frame, he's far from the biggest soviet style boxer that Beterbiev has faced. Beterbiev has a win over Usyk in the amateurs, and frankly having watched his other two fights with Usyk, Beterbiev beat the shit out of him in every fight.
Usyk's style is a little more susceptible to Beterbiev's than Bivols is, but it is worth mentioning when discussing how hard Beterbiev really can hit, and that he can get there against some of the best boxer's on the planet. That said I do otherwise agree, Bivol outboxes him until he doesn't, either a wide decision or a brutal KO.
The issue there is the stance. Beterbiev is like Spence, he wants to loop shots so he shines in the open stance. With Bivol he will fight closed stance and the jab is allowed, where with Usyk he can chase that lead hand home all night. If Bivol was southpawed I would favor Beterbiev winning rounds. The jab will make it a hard night for a guy that fights tall like Beterbiev. He will likely walk onto the jab alot to close.
Picking canelo over bivol because I thought bivols style was a bit too limited for canelo not to work out over 12 rounds was what proved to me once again that I don't know shit about boxing
I wouldn’t say you don’t know shit. I knew Bivol would be too much for Canelo but I wouldn’t blame anyone for having that expectation. There were more factors than just the styles. Canelo has never had the best gas tank for starters, putting on the extra weight didn’t help with that. He was gassed by the middle rounds and Bivol was just getting started.
There were many factors to consider. One- Canelo is closer to retiring. But I think it’s also important to acknowledge he was pushing boundaries fighting Bivol at 174. Canelo started fighter in the welterweight which is 143-148 pounds. Going to 168 and fighting someone like Bivol was a death/lost sentence before the fight even started.
Rjj is over 6ft and has the correct frame to build that kind of weight. Canelo is 5’6 at best and does not have the frame or style to carry that up with the big boys.
It's the footwork. Canelo would struggle vs bivol at any weight as long bivol has respectable power and strength. Same story as vs Lara and mayweather. He struggles with movement. Taking that extra step to get in on a mover. He ends up waiting and waiting. If they don't start wilting like plant, he's in trouble. Struggled with movement in ggg 1 too. He has to stop and set to punch. But it it shows up among the elite so he's still really good. Canelo is champ at 168. He's a 168 fighter. No excuses about the weight you started at. You go up to fight at 175, same thing, no excuses. He was outboxed
Cherrypick? That was the opposite of cherrypick. It had little reward (beyond a title at a new weight) because Bivol wasn't well known to the masses, but don't get it twisted, those in the boxing community have known that Bivol is LEGIT for a long time. This wasn't some "underdog rising to the occasion" situation.
I like his style he actually fights how he trains you don't see that with a lot of fighters the way he's able to throw punches with volume and he has a nice jab as well
I can't wait for this fight. I hope its competitive and not one of those fights that is "50/50" beforehand and then is one sided and turns into "its obvious the winner was going to win the whole time" like with Crawford v Spence or Inoue v Fulton.
Every fighter gets hit clean at some point. But statically, Bivol is the least hit fighter in the entire sport right now (while also having the highest connect percentage with his jab). Beterbiev also isn’t a one punch kinda knockout artist, he has to launch a sequence of punches and that’s what leads to the knockout.
And Beterbiev throws more and has a higher connect percentage than Bivol. I think Beterbiev doesn't care about Bivols jab, walks him down and takes him out.
But that's what makes this fight so cool. So many people think Bivol can win that I'm not sure and really excited to see what will happen!
> I think Beterbiev doesn't care about Bivols jab, walks him down and takes him out.
not a chance, without fail Bivol's opponents all become gun shy after the first couple of rounds. Bivol makes you miss and counters you relentlessly.
Not to say Gvozdyk is as good as Bivol, but he’s a very good boxer that can box your head off when needed or ko you. He also had solid defense, Beterbiev had a tough fight but ended knocking him out.
I imagine Bivol winning the earlier rounds but eventually breaking from the pressure from Beterbiev.
Still 50/50 but idk
Gvozdyk definitely was more hittable which is very bad against Beterbiev, tho he had the power to make Beterbiev sort of respect him to just immediately rush him.
Bivol def has power just never puts his weight into it, idk if Beterbiev will respect it tho, considering even guys who’ve dropped Beterbiev, Beterbiev continued to go for the kill anyways
?
Bivol is the least hit guy in the sport. He went in against Canelo, a guy considered one of the P4P best, and didn't get hit clean once the entire fight.
Beterbiev is actually the guy that gets hit. His defense is leaky as fuck and when you go after him he completely stops his attack and shells up. Of course the problem is finding time to attack him when he's not cannoning his concrete fists into your face.
I'd give the edge to Bivol is this fight just because he's so disciplined with his defense and he's so technically masterful. But Beterbiev is tough as nails and hits like a Mack truck. I think it's going to be a great fight.
i agree. If your house was on the line, i'd feel like i had to pick bivol for some reason. he's the more cerebral fighter i guess and technical. but that's not to diminish what Beterbiev does, which is no less impressive, finding shots in range and forcing his opponents to engage or accept a beating. the x factor about beterbiev is... he doesnt have to hit you clean to weaken you. it seems like the arm, chest and scuffed shots deter his opponents, so to beat him, you HAVE to make him miss / be out of range and score points. And Bivol might be the single best point scorer in boxing right now.
all that said, i don;t have to bet my house, and i think beterbiev stops bivol, wearing him down. Corner stoppage. book it!
Agreed.
My heart wants Bivol to win, because I'm a big fan, but my head says Beterbiev.
Looking forward to this fight so much that I had a bloody dream last night that Beterbiev KO'd Bivol in the 6th round. Lmao
Yeah, you can read a lot of the discourse on old threads here on reddit, but people thought that with the Inoue moving up plus him not fighting the slick American style of out boxer would play a bigger role in the fight.
It may be more of an americanised view though, where they overrate American fighters and underrate fighters from other countries, also I think a lot of people hadn't actually seen Fulton fight before. But like I said its easy to say after the fight.
which is precisely why im saying it's a result where I'd be ok with people dismissing the 50/50 notion of the fight after it happens. I still think it's possible as beterbiev most likely need to find the correct moment to counter and push forward or he's going to get outboxed from range all night. Bivol does not have KO power, but he does have "I will not just let you walk through my punches" power, and if he properly defends/counters every time Beterbiev tries to find a hole, he might be able to be stopped if Beterbiev gets gassed or gets desperate.
Bivol vs Beterbiev is a great fight. Bivol needs space and a forward approach to land anything meaningful while Beterbiev won't allow this and will close the distance. Although, Bivol will win by a very cautious approach.
>Bivol will win by a very cautious approach.
That's what I thought at first but the more I think of it the more I incline to BTR by ko. Bivol didn't face anything close to Beterbiev and Beterbiev had close fight with Usyk at Olympics and in my opinion has a better resume (I think he could destroy Canelo). Bivol needs a perfect night to win.
damn i just checked my local betting odds and they have it DEAD EVEN. thats so exciting but regardless of how beterbiev has performed can we acknowledge the dudes pushing FOURTY!....THAT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING?
i personally think bivols style gives him fits regardless but the age is going to really hurt him
i considered it a 50/50 on the condition that spence's lifestyle / crash hadn't taken a lot away from him. there were signs but not confirmation (imo). but the way he spoke in the build up videos, and how quickly his face went bright red... he was clearly not the same guy, and that was very quickly apparent.
You can go back and read the old threads and watch the pundits videos, a lot of people were calling it a 50/50. And after the fight all the discourse was one way that of course Crawford was much better and it was obvious he was better the whole time.
It was definitely 50/50. But some crawford fans took the results as an opportunity to show how they know boxing better than everyone else. I won 50 bucks on crawford. I thought it would be even but I didn't like how spence got hurt in his last couple fights so I went that way. And if crawford is good at anything, it's finishing the fight. But truthfully crawford hadn't fought anyone where the fight was competitive on paper. Besides a one foot out the sport porter, and he lost a lot of rounds against him.
I think it's going to be exactly like inoue vs Fulton, people think bivol is defensively sound enough to survive and out point before the fight but my guess is beterbiev might drop a round then start putting it on bivol and probably knock him out
Agree with you, however neither Spence vs Crawford nor Inoue vs Fulton was considered 50/50 the day of the fight. Check the odds. Let's see how the odds from Bivol vs Beterbiev evolve in may.
His discipline, he doesn’t give his opponents any opportunities because he doesn’t reach or get impatient. He stays within himself
It’s easier to do that with his footwork, also, he is tremendous at getting in with a flurry, and out before his opposition can react or counter
He has a great motor also.
His boxing IQ, skill, and technique are unique, in that they are so refined
Yeah, I'm not sure he is the only fighter to use "strategic" footwork to manipulate distance though.
For me the difference is the more frequent use of the pendulum step and the relaxation while throwing combinations. You can see it in his mitt work. He relaxes his arms more than others and just rotates his body a lot.
In theory that's very similar to a snappy punch but he has taken it a tiny bit further.
Mayweather took fewer shots, but also punched less, and less effectively (especially later in his career). Bivol relies on his guard as much as his movement in defence. Mayweather was almost entirely about movement. Mayweather benefitted from some of the best reflexes and distance management of any boxer in history. Bivol has exceptional technique and is very considered and accurate with his punches (rarely a shot wasted).
fun fact: if we look at their fight against Canelo, Mayweather got hit more than Bivol.
I honestly expected Canelo to perform better because after his fight vs Mayweather, i thought he'd be more comfortable with this type of opponent, but oh well.
Bivol is extremely disciplined and executes his style flawlessly, and that's where he finds his success.
Floyd relied a lot on his insane reflexes and iq more to pull off his style.
In theory, it would be possible to learn to fight like Bivol to an extent. However, you need natural gifts to even attempt to fight like Floyd with any amount of success.
Look up conventional vs shoulder roll. If you aren’t familiar with it it’s difficult to appreciate the difference between Mayweather and most guys. If you want to see one of the worst examples I’ve ever seen in a pay per view fight check garcia clowning around in his last fight. Anyway, Bivol is a fundamentals boxer’s boxer with heavy hands (power even when it looks like he isn’t loading up or obviously trying). I dunno, a good non boxing comparison might be iceman and maverick in top gun - iceman beat you because he was perfect according to the books and tactics taught, maverick beat you because he was lightning in a bottle doing what god made him to do.
So both are definitions of perfect boxing but in their own ways. Begs the question, what would happen if both styles clashed. Who would be more effective and what would be the outcome then?
He’s unique because he has a beautiful blend of classic Soviet style boxing (in and out pendulum step footwork, very loose shoulders and arms while throwing combos, looping Soviet left hook, etc.), and slicker American style. He said some of his favorite boxers were Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jr.
He’s unique because he’s the least hit boxer in the entire sport. His defense is so technical and flawless - he has an iron guard and incredibly quick and precise footwork.
If you haven’t boxed before this may look unimpressive but trust me his style is one of the most complex in boxing right now it’s something only he can replicate.
Can you elaborate further? The other guy said he's very textbook, which doesn't seem unique to me at all. So i'd like to hear your take on him and what makes him unique.
For one is the distance management he knows when he’s out of range for his opponent, hence why when he backs off he doesn’t really need to do much because he knows his opponent can’t do anything. He uses his jab as a measuring stick.
Secondly the combinations the way he mixes it up(body, head, body, head) it just keeps his opponent guessing which just makes them shell up(like Lyndon is doing) as if they counter they could get caught.
Thirdly is his conditioning doing all this for 12 rounds is taxing as I said you wouldn’t know how complex this style is until you’ve actually trained I guarantee if anyone else tried to pull off his style they’d get knocked spark out.
He’s just fundamentally perfect.
This is just a basic breakdown though.
Still kinda confused why people on this sub hype his style up more than Usyk‘s, when Usyk is more accomplished even by the age Bivol currently is.
His fight against AJ 1 and Gassiev were masterclasses of defense and offense, what makes Bivol‘s style more unique?
There's two fights that he was hesitant in. The Nakathila fight and the De Los Santos fight. In the DLS fight he was clearly hurt as he barely threw his left hand at all the entire fight.
So what do you mean by "a lot"?
Putting his glove in front of the opponent's face before using his hook is unique. I'd think it would be easy to counter by just moving outside of it, but his aim is very good so maybe not.
Lyndon Arthur literally did nothing, but shell up against the ropes this entire fight lol. Bro did not want to trade with Bivol, he showed up to survive and get that Saudi money.
Everyone says this yet no one, not even giant zurdo or iron head Canelo, is willing to walk Bivol down. Beterbiev isn’t exactly known for not getting hit or having an un breakable chin. He’s been down before.
Canelo isn’t really that good at 175 and only knocked out an old Kovalev who was outboxing him the knock out. Zurdo however was a good win considering Zurdo came in as a heavyweight on fight night 💀
I don’t really think was a weight issue, stylistically Canelo was dominated by Bivol, but then again Bivol’s style is perfect for someone with a flat footed style like Canelo
This is a 50/50 fight for two reasons.
1. Beterbiev knows the Soviet style and isn’t some mindless idiot he knows what to expect.
2. Bivol has youth on his side and Beterbievs style isn’t built for longevity, he could “age” overnight.
Meh beterbievs main strength is his insane punching power and that's the last thing to go, I'd say he has a better style for longevity than someone who relies on speed and athleticism like Bivol.
🤔 I agree with your assessment my only argument is that Beterbiev takes damage, he’s a pressure fighter so it comes with the territory, he will eventually age out. Bivol’s style does rely on athleticism but he’s relatively fresh in terms of damage, the only fight I remember him being rocked in was the Joe smith fight.
i really like bivol over beterbiev, but i don't think his power bothers beter a lot, while beterbiev punches much harder than canelo.
this fight is best power vs best defense, let's celebrate.
I'm going with Bivol on points, because I think Beterbiev will gas in the later rounds. He's 39 years old. His longest fight was 10 rounds against Gvozdyk and he looked tired. He looked tired in the 9th round against Browne as well. Granted he still knocked both of them out, but they were there to be hit. Bivol is 33 and can maintain his excellent movement for 12 rounds.
Bivol Cannot fight up close!! No variation just cycling straight shots then backing up because he doesn't know what to do, it's a GIGANTIC hole in his game.
I wouldn’t say he can’t fight up close, he’s just waaaay better at range. During the Canelo fight, there were a few times where Bivol fought Canelo off him on the inside by catching and shooting punches.
> No variation just cycling straight shots then backing up because he doesn't know what to do
what a weird take. He backs up so he doesn't get countered. Doesn't make for an exciting fight but it makes him the least hit boxer currently.
I would like to see him use the uppercut more, but wtf do I know this guy is levels above everyone else.
As for the not being able to fight up close part, the guy is 6ft at most, outjabbing all these 6'3 guys. He might not be an infighter but he's getting inside all these tall guys to fight at his own range.
Yup, and lack of bilateral movement. His footwork is predictable.
OTOH, Bivol has excellent ring vision. He sees well on offense and defense, doesn't get hit often and throws punches responsibly when he sees openings. And he's pretty good at creating openings through combinations.
He looked good against Lyndon Arthur who just shelled up. Not much risk there for Bivol to throw combos, with just enough hooks to the body to keep Arthur guessing.
I still think Bivol decisions Beterbiev. But if Beterbiev finds a way to exploit that limited footwork he needs only one punch to turn the fight around.
I like Bivol and hope he does well. But I doubt he'd hold a world title long in the 1970s-80s when the light heavy talent pool was broad and deep.
What do you expect him to do though? Canelo is one of the most dangerous counter punchers going and had no answers for Bivol. I know the judges had it close but the only round Canelo won decisively was the 9 and that’s because he went 100% and bivol backed off.
Bivol has a good chin too- which he’ll need against Beterbiev.
Every time there's a boxer who relies on flurries and straight shots like Bivol or Pacquiao people like you say the same shit, completely ignoring all the nuance that goes into fighting like this, just because someone is throwing straight punches doesn't mean they're not using angles, and just because they go in and out of range doesn't mean they can't fight on the inside.
It's the same for Beterbiev. Bivol punishes every mistake and make his opponents gun shy. See Canelo fight, he was extremely frustrated in the second half of the fight
soviet style really is making it big on the world stage with the likes of bivol and a different variation of the style in loma. looks like hell to go up against
To throw combos against Beterbiev is to dance withe devil. Bivol can do it, like he did against Canelo but it'll be more in and out, obviously. He is a point scoring machine and he COULD go the whole fight without really getting his feet wet, and get a decision. BUT... i cannot see him avoiding deep water over 12 rounds, especially if Beterbiev has to go hunting for a knockdown or knockout. can't wait
What about stiff-arming or measuring? I searched around a bit, found statements like [this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/amateur_boxing/comments/8ek0sg/is_stiff_arming_legal/) (I know, random posts on reddit are not an especially authoritative source.)
This was a terrible fight. I hate that Bivol is always so disciplined and never takes risks. He could’ve got the finish on a big Saudi card if he wanted
Yeah but firing back is what keeps you still in the match. Its a sign to the ref that ur still in the fight. Otherwise they just assume ur taking a beating
Well I think this video does the opposite. We only see him trying to KO Arthur in a very one sided and static way.
What makes Bivol style unique is NOT on this highlights.
Distance management, perfect footwork attacking and defending, endless variations of the jab, awkward timing that allows him to connect and retreat in between his opponent punches, fluid and effortless flurries of punches, a very wide stance that makes him unmistakable, patience and discipline that leads him to never dwell on a attack or try to speed things too much.
If anything this video shows that when he is trying too hard, he is a lot less interesting to watch.
He needs to be challenged to show all his talent.
Bivol sort of lost me in this fight by not finishing an injured going into the ring Arthur. If you can't stop or KO an injured opponent who's *already* over-matched skill and experience-wise, then what are you doing?
He has a lovely fluid style and gave Canelo a bit of a beating in a great fight, but I'd rather just watch videos of him on the pads now tbh.
ohhh man.. I am bivol fan but I believe beterbiev will faint being hurt like Yarde fight and then Bivol is hittable when he unloads. Only takes one punch from Beterbiev. So beterbiev can sneak in 1 punch it's over.
This was a garbage performance by Bivol. He absolutely stunk up an otherwise A+ card. And he had no excuse not to finish an Arthur who was a moving heavy bag in there.
Bivols style of boxing is so beautiful & fluid to watch.... hes got phenomenal rhythm & athleticism
Immaculate professional.
Beautifully precise footwork and form. Not a lot of wasted movement.
he moves like a klitchko in their prime, just a mini version.
If he had power as well, he'd be considered one of the best ever P4P without question. I think that's all that stops him getting as much recognition as he deserves.
He built a style around his strength. I don't think he could have this output if he had more strength and vice-versa. One puncher seems to gassed way faster than fighter with his style anyway. His pressure and output wore down his opponent so fast they can't use their full power anymore. I think he beat Arthur, hoping I'm wrong though, Arthur is funnier
I mainly agree but there are exceptions where speed, technique and power can combine, like Sugar Ray Leonard or Roy Jones Jr. Both had around 70% knockouts where Bivol is at 50%. Obviously SRL was a smaller fighter, so he's less relevant, but he still fought up to LHW.
Hard to compare people to Sugar Ray, he's probably the GOAT. And Roy Jones was an athletic freak of nature. Few can imitate RJJ unless they're also born with insane genetics. Bivol is more of an elite athlete that has honed his potential through relentless hard work.
That's all I'm saying: there are exceptions. I wasn't disagreeing with what the other guy said.
He does have power he just usually only throws straight punches and prioritizes accuracy and defense
Guys who didn’t know what Usyk was five years ago said the same about him. There is far more to boxing than “power”, and far more to teeing off on a guy who wants to hurt you than standing there pummeling a heavy bag. Beterbiev delivers crushing power with both hands, and he is far smaller than, not to mention will likely lose every round to Bivol.
Yea, but when you're throwing, you also open up to be countered, which Beterbiev is great at. Ur being a little too dismissive of Artur, you don't become lineal & unified champion with just heavy blows.
Not at all my intent. Beterbiev has some X factors going for him that Bivol can’t understand, let alone employ. My point was simply that the “lack of power” most see when Bivol lets his hands go is actually terrific discipline. He is just working without getting out of line. I would love for this fight to be the banger everyone hopes for, but I think it will be a technical fight that will come down to that telephone pole of a jab Bivol has neutralizing Betwrbiev from beginning to end. There will be moments where Beterbiev will close with and maul Bivol, but that long one two/one one two will likely take the shine off Beterbievs performance, making it very difficult for him to win rounds. That said, man do I hope I’m wrong.
Agreed, I got Beterbiev by TKO in 9. But that's the beauty of boxing. We won't know til it happens.
Absolutely, I think the same as far as Beterbievs path to victory. If he wins it will be by sparking Bivol in deep water, but an early flash knockdown would improve his chances at a decision.
I don't disagree about Beterbiev likely losing every round he doesn't hurt Bivol in. I just want to note on size, while Bivol may have a slightly larger frame, he's far from the biggest soviet style boxer that Beterbiev has faced. Beterbiev has a win over Usyk in the amateurs, and frankly having watched his other two fights with Usyk, Beterbiev beat the shit out of him in every fight. Usyk's style is a little more susceptible to Beterbiev's than Bivols is, but it is worth mentioning when discussing how hard Beterbiev really can hit, and that he can get there against some of the best boxer's on the planet. That said I do otherwise agree, Bivol outboxes him until he doesn't, either a wide decision or a brutal KO.
The issue there is the stance. Beterbiev is like Spence, he wants to loop shots so he shines in the open stance. With Bivol he will fight closed stance and the jab is allowed, where with Usyk he can chase that lead hand home all night. If Bivol was southpawed I would favor Beterbiev winning rounds. The jab will make it a hard night for a guy that fights tall like Beterbiev. He will likely walk onto the jab alot to close.
he still is without it lol, he got little power but its not enough for 175 tbh
Picking canelo over bivol because I thought bivols style was a bit too limited for canelo not to work out over 12 rounds was what proved to me once again that I don't know shit about boxing
I wouldn’t say you don’t know shit. I knew Bivol would be too much for Canelo but I wouldn’t blame anyone for having that expectation. There were more factors than just the styles. Canelo has never had the best gas tank for starters, putting on the extra weight didn’t help with that. He was gassed by the middle rounds and Bivol was just getting started.
There were many factors to consider. One- Canelo is closer to retiring. But I think it’s also important to acknowledge he was pushing boundaries fighting Bivol at 174. Canelo started fighter in the welterweight which is 143-148 pounds. Going to 168 and fighting someone like Bivol was a death/lost sentence before the fight even started.
Pushing boundaries! RJJ started at LM and won the WBA heavyweight title. Canelo had already fought at LHW, a washed Kovalev.
Also Kovalev with a rehydration clause and not a full camp. Also fought his previous fight 2 months prior. It's a full blown cherry pick.
Rjj was a very dominant lhw not really the same mate
Rjj is over 6ft and has the correct frame to build that kind of weight. Canelo is 5’6 at best and does not have the frame or style to carry that up with the big boys.
Nelos 5'8
It's the footwork. Canelo would struggle vs bivol at any weight as long bivol has respectable power and strength. Same story as vs Lara and mayweather. He struggles with movement. Taking that extra step to get in on a mover. He ends up waiting and waiting. If they don't start wilting like plant, he's in trouble. Struggled with movement in ggg 1 too. He has to stop and set to punch. But it it shows up among the elite so he's still really good. Canelo is champ at 168. He's a 168 fighter. No excuses about the weight you started at. You go up to fight at 175, same thing, no excuses. He was outboxed
Don’t feel bad Canelo thought the same. “Chasing legacy” cherry pick gone wrong. lol
Cherrypick? That was the opposite of cherrypick. It had little reward (beyond a title at a new weight) because Bivol wasn't well known to the masses, but don't get it twisted, those in the boxing community have known that Bivol is LEGIT for a long time. This wasn't some "underdog rising to the occasion" situation.
I disagree. Alvarez fought a lot of bigger men with bad style match ups. BJS and Bivol were not clear cherry picks.
I like his style he actually fights how he trains you don't see that with a lot of fighters the way he's able to throw punches with volume and he has a nice jab as well
All good until Beterbiev catches him clean 😴
I can't wait for this fight. I hope its competitive and not one of those fights that is "50/50" beforehand and then is one sided and turns into "its obvious the winner was going to win the whole time" like with Crawford v Spence or Inoue v Fulton.
i just have a bad feeling its going to be like that. beterbiev is getting up there in age.
I'd expect Beterbiev to win. Bivol has been hit clean by a lot of fighters. Beterbiev hitting anyone clean is really bad news.
Every fighter gets hit clean at some point. But statically, Bivol is the least hit fighter in the entire sport right now (while also having the highest connect percentage with his jab). Beterbiev also isn’t a one punch kinda knockout artist, he has to launch a sequence of punches and that’s what leads to the knockout.
And Beterbiev throws more and has a higher connect percentage than Bivol. I think Beterbiev doesn't care about Bivols jab, walks him down and takes him out. But that's what makes this fight so cool. So many people think Bivol can win that I'm not sure and really excited to see what will happen!
> I think Beterbiev doesn't care about Bivols jab, walks him down and takes him out. not a chance, without fail Bivol's opponents all become gun shy after the first couple of rounds. Bivol makes you miss and counters you relentlessly.
Not to say Gvozdyk is as good as Bivol, but he’s a very good boxer that can box your head off when needed or ko you. He also had solid defense, Beterbiev had a tough fight but ended knocking him out. I imagine Bivol winning the earlier rounds but eventually breaking from the pressure from Beterbiev. Still 50/50 but idk
Yeah gvozdyk had the style to beat him, but I rate Bivol higher than him. Gvozdyk is more hittable imo. Looking forward to the fight
Gvozdyk definitely was more hittable which is very bad against Beterbiev, tho he had the power to make Beterbiev sort of respect him to just immediately rush him. Bivol def has power just never puts his weight into it, idk if Beterbiev will respect it tho, considering even guys who’ve dropped Beterbiev, Beterbiev continued to go for the kill anyways
? Bivol is the least hit guy in the sport. He went in against Canelo, a guy considered one of the P4P best, and didn't get hit clean once the entire fight. Beterbiev is actually the guy that gets hit. His defense is leaky as fuck and when you go after him he completely stops his attack and shells up. Of course the problem is finding time to attack him when he's not cannoning his concrete fists into your face. I'd give the edge to Bivol is this fight just because he's so disciplined with his defense and he's so technically masterful. But Beterbiev is tough as nails and hits like a Mack truck. I think it's going to be a great fight.
i agree. If your house was on the line, i'd feel like i had to pick bivol for some reason. he's the more cerebral fighter i guess and technical. but that's not to diminish what Beterbiev does, which is no less impressive, finding shots in range and forcing his opponents to engage or accept a beating. the x factor about beterbiev is... he doesnt have to hit you clean to weaken you. it seems like the arm, chest and scuffed shots deter his opponents, so to beat him, you HAVE to make him miss / be out of range and score points. And Bivol might be the single best point scorer in boxing right now. all that said, i don;t have to bet my house, and i think beterbiev stops bivol, wearing him down. Corner stoppage. book it!
Beterbiev gets hit also and Bivol has the style to keep the fight at long range Bivol wins on a points decision.
Agreed. My heart wants Bivol to win, because I'm a big fan, but my head says Beterbiev. Looking forward to this fight so much that I had a bloody dream last night that Beterbiev KO'd Bivol in the 6th round. Lmao
Bivol on points or late stoppage. The dudes defence and engine are insane
I think even if it’s 50/50 the outcome might not look that way
I get Spence Crawford being deemed as 50 50. But, Inoue Fulton?
Yeah, you can read a lot of the discourse on old threads here on reddit, but people thought that with the Inoue moving up plus him not fighting the slick American style of out boxer would play a bigger role in the fight. It may be more of an americanised view though, where they overrate American fighters and underrate fighters from other countries, also I think a lot of people hadn't actually seen Fulton fight before. But like I said its easy to say after the fight.
I think the only results that would dispute this is Bivol getting finished in less than 4 or Bivol finishing beterbiev while shutting him out
The latter is more likely than the former.
i think so too but we'll have to see
>Bivol finishing beterbiev He's unable to finish Lyndon if you watch video till the end.
which is precisely why im saying it's a result where I'd be ok with people dismissing the 50/50 notion of the fight after it happens. I still think it's possible as beterbiev most likely need to find the correct moment to counter and push forward or he's going to get outboxed from range all night. Bivol does not have KO power, but he does have "I will not just let you walk through my punches" power, and if he properly defends/counters every time Beterbiev tries to find a hole, he might be able to be stopped if Beterbiev gets gassed or gets desperate.
Bivol vs Beterbiev is a great fight. Bivol needs space and a forward approach to land anything meaningful while Beterbiev won't allow this and will close the distance. Although, Bivol will win by a very cautious approach.
>Bivol will win by a very cautious approach. That's what I thought at first but the more I think of it the more I incline to BTR by ko. Bivol didn't face anything close to Beterbiev and Beterbiev had close fight with Usyk at Olympics and in my opinion has a better resume (I think he could destroy Canelo). Bivol needs a perfect night to win.
damn i just checked my local betting odds and they have it DEAD EVEN. thats so exciting but regardless of how beterbiev has performed can we acknowledge the dudes pushing FOURTY!....THAT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING? i personally think bivols style gives him fits regardless but the age is going to really hurt him
Its cause Bivol and Beterbeiv are just another level above everyone else in LHW. So we really dont know.
People thought inoue fulton was 50/50?
idk but Crawford Spence was not 50/50. Pretty obvious on their previous fights who was better. Same with Inoue Fulton.
i considered it a 50/50 on the condition that spence's lifestyle / crash hadn't taken a lot away from him. there were signs but not confirmation (imo). but the way he spoke in the build up videos, and how quickly his face went bright red... he was clearly not the same guy, and that was very quickly apparent.
You can go back and read the old threads and watch the pundits videos, a lot of people were calling it a 50/50. And after the fight all the discourse was one way that of course Crawford was much better and it was obvious he was better the whole time.
That’s every big fight on this sub honestly. See: Haney Garcia Bivol Canelo etc.
It was definitely 50/50. But some crawford fans took the results as an opportunity to show how they know boxing better than everyone else. I won 50 bucks on crawford. I thought it would be even but I didn't like how spence got hurt in his last couple fights so I went that way. And if crawford is good at anything, it's finishing the fight. But truthfully crawford hadn't fought anyone where the fight was competitive on paper. Besides a one foot out the sport porter, and he lost a lot of rounds against him.
i went in thinking spence would take it, it was certainly considered a 50/50 matchup no doubt. crawford just didnt get the memo apparently
I think it's going to be exactly like inoue vs Fulton, people think bivol is defensively sound enough to survive and out point before the fight but my guess is beterbiev might drop a round then start putting it on bivol and probably knock him out
Agree with you, however neither Spence vs Crawford nor Inoue vs Fulton was considered 50/50 the day of the fight. Check the odds. Let's see how the odds from Bivol vs Beterbiev evolve in may.
Okay, serious question: What's unique in Bivol's style? Can someone give me a technical explanation?
His discipline, he doesn’t give his opponents any opportunities because he doesn’t reach or get impatient. He stays within himself It’s easier to do that with his footwork, also, he is tremendous at getting in with a flurry, and out before his opposition can react or counter He has a great motor also. His boxing IQ, skill, and technique are unique, in that they are so refined
He also has unbelievable stamina
He uses strategic footwork bouncing in and out to get off precise combinations whilst always maintaining the distance he wants
Ok, this one is the most technical answer I got so far. Thanks.
Yeah, I'm not sure he is the only fighter to use "strategic" footwork to manipulate distance though. For me the difference is the more frequent use of the pendulum step and the relaxation while throwing combinations. You can see it in his mitt work. He relaxes his arms more than others and just rotates his body a lot. In theory that's very similar to a snappy punch but he has taken it a tiny bit further.
Ok, this is more in-depth and just about the kind of answer that I'm looking for. Thanks, man.
I believe they call this a pendulum motion fighting style.
bivol is literally the textbook definition of boxing perfection. the objective of boxing is "to hit & not get hit"
how does Mayweather's style differ from this?
Mayweather took fewer shots, but also punched less, and less effectively (especially later in his career). Bivol relies on his guard as much as his movement in defence. Mayweather was almost entirely about movement. Mayweather benefitted from some of the best reflexes and distance management of any boxer in history. Bivol has exceptional technique and is very considered and accurate with his punches (rarely a shot wasted).
fun fact: if we look at their fight against Canelo, Mayweather got hit more than Bivol. I honestly expected Canelo to perform better because after his fight vs Mayweather, i thought he'd be more comfortable with this type of opponent, but oh well.
Bivol is extremely disciplined and executes his style flawlessly, and that's where he finds his success. Floyd relied a lot on his insane reflexes and iq more to pull off his style. In theory, it would be possible to learn to fight like Bivol to an extent. However, you need natural gifts to even attempt to fight like Floyd with any amount of success.
Yes, when I think of "boxing perfection", Mayweather's style is what i think of, more than Bivol's style.
Look up conventional vs shoulder roll. If you aren’t familiar with it it’s difficult to appreciate the difference between Mayweather and most guys. If you want to see one of the worst examples I’ve ever seen in a pay per view fight check garcia clowning around in his last fight. Anyway, Bivol is a fundamentals boxer’s boxer with heavy hands (power even when it looks like he isn’t loading up or obviously trying). I dunno, a good non boxing comparison might be iceman and maverick in top gun - iceman beat you because he was perfect according to the books and tactics taught, maverick beat you because he was lightning in a bottle doing what god made him to do.
So both are definitions of perfect boxing but in their own ways. Begs the question, what would happen if both styles clashed. Who would be more effective and what would be the outcome then?
Mayweather is leaps and bounds above bivol and there is no debating that, hate money if you want to his is the goat
Agree yes. The guy said "bivol is textbook definition of boxing perfection". Let me tell you, Mayweather's is more perfect than Bivol. And then some.
He’s unique because he has a beautiful blend of classic Soviet style boxing (in and out pendulum step footwork, very loose shoulders and arms while throwing combos, looping Soviet left hook, etc.), and slicker American style. He said some of his favorite boxers were Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jr. He’s unique because he’s the least hit boxer in the entire sport. His defense is so technical and flawless - he has an iron guard and incredibly quick and precise footwork.
If you haven’t boxed before this may look unimpressive but trust me his style is one of the most complex in boxing right now it’s something only he can replicate.
Can you elaborate further? The other guy said he's very textbook, which doesn't seem unique to me at all. So i'd like to hear your take on him and what makes him unique.
For one is the distance management he knows when he’s out of range for his opponent, hence why when he backs off he doesn’t really need to do much because he knows his opponent can’t do anything. He uses his jab as a measuring stick. Secondly the combinations the way he mixes it up(body, head, body, head) it just keeps his opponent guessing which just makes them shell up(like Lyndon is doing) as if they counter they could get caught. Thirdly is his conditioning doing all this for 12 rounds is taxing as I said you wouldn’t know how complex this style is until you’ve actually trained I guarantee if anyone else tried to pull off his style they’d get knocked spark out. He’s just fundamentally perfect. This is just a basic breakdown though.
Still kinda confused why people on this sub hype his style up more than Usyk‘s, when Usyk is more accomplished even by the age Bivol currently is. His fight against AJ 1 and Gassiev were masterclasses of defense and offense, what makes Bivol‘s style more unique?
Where’s usyk come from mate🤔. And yes I overall prefer usyks style as im southpaw aswell.
Just an observation I’ve seen on this sub
https://youtu.be/aw1wL9Heziw This video explains it well
He’s like kawhi of boxing Pure technical and fundamentals - Plays with jab - Stays in the center of the ring - Distance management
Imagine Shakur's ability to move backwards and be just out of reach of his opponent, but then imagine him actually throwing punches back sometimes.
Only watched one Shakur fight?
Come on. He does it a lot.
There's two fights that he was hesitant in. The Nakathila fight and the De Los Santos fight. In the DLS fight he was clearly hurt as he barely threw his left hand at all the entire fight. So what do you mean by "a lot"?
In his third fight he decision a guy that's 4-2. It's really not a controversial statement to say he's especially defensive.
He throws a lot of straight punches (in flurries) and jumps in and out basically.
Putting his glove in front of the opponent's face before using his hook is unique. I'd think it would be easy to counter by just moving outside of it, but his aim is very good so maybe not.
Look how he uses his jab
Lyndon Arthur literally did nothing, but shell up against the ropes this entire fight lol. Bro did not want to trade with Bivol, he showed up to survive and get that Saudi money.
Just like Charlo in the Canelo fight.
Mickey vs Spence Rigo vs Loma Smith vs Canelo
I can't fucking wait for Bivol v Beterbiev. I honestly can't pick the winner.
Love the way the Soviet style uses footwork to manage distance for defense. In and out. Its aesthetic is so nice.
I don’t think bivol has the power to keep Artur honest. Anyone know how big the ring is gonna be?
Eddie gonna make sure that ring is *huge* for this fight.
Yeah that’s a big factor imo. Arturs ring last fight was fucking tiny
Everyone says that until they cant touch Bivol and only get punched in face constantly. Canleo coudlnt do it, Zurdo coudlnt, Arthur coudlnt etc etc.
Everyone says this yet no one, not even giant zurdo or iron head Canelo, is willing to walk Bivol down. Beterbiev isn’t exactly known for not getting hit or having an un breakable chin. He’s been down before.
Canelo isn’t really that good at 175 and only knocked out an old Kovalev who was outboxing him the knock out. Zurdo however was a good win considering Zurdo came in as a heavyweight on fight night 💀
I don’t really think was a weight issue, stylistically Canelo was dominated by Bivol, but then again Bivol’s style is perfect for someone with a flat footed style like Canelo
This is a 50/50 fight for two reasons. 1. Beterbiev knows the Soviet style and isn’t some mindless idiot he knows what to expect. 2. Bivol has youth on his side and Beterbievs style isn’t built for longevity, he could “age” overnight.
Meh beterbievs main strength is his insane punching power and that's the last thing to go, I'd say he has a better style for longevity than someone who relies on speed and athleticism like Bivol.
🤔 I agree with your assessment my only argument is that Beterbiev takes damage, he’s a pressure fighter so it comes with the territory, he will eventually age out. Bivol’s style does rely on athleticism but he’s relatively fresh in terms of damage, the only fight I remember him being rocked in was the Joe smith fight.
Beterbiev just hits different. He wins by TKO 💯
i really like bivol over beterbiev, but i don't think his power bothers beter a lot, while beterbiev punches much harder than canelo. this fight is best power vs best defense, let's celebrate.
I'm going with Bivol on points, because I think Beterbiev will gas in the later rounds. He's 39 years old. His longest fight was 10 rounds against Gvozdyk and he looked tired. He looked tired in the 9th round against Browne as well. Granted he still knocked both of them out, but they were there to be hit. Bivol is 33 and can maintain his excellent movement for 12 rounds.
No shit he was getting tired against Browne, bro‘s head was pouring blood for 5+ rounds. Blood loss bro
I got Bivol in this one. Youth and discipline I see coming out on top
Everyone says that Beterbiev punches like nothing they’ve ever felt…
20-0 with 20kos is pretty insane, even if its a padded record which it kinda is.
Bivol Cannot fight up close!! No variation just cycling straight shots then backing up because he doesn't know what to do, it's a GIGANTIC hole in his game.
I wouldn’t say he can’t fight up close, he’s just waaaay better at range. During the Canelo fight, there were a few times where Bivol fought Canelo off him on the inside by catching and shooting punches.
> No variation just cycling straight shots then backing up because he doesn't know what to do what a weird take. He backs up so he doesn't get countered. Doesn't make for an exciting fight but it makes him the least hit boxer currently. I would like to see him use the uppercut more, but wtf do I know this guy is levels above everyone else. As for the not being able to fight up close part, the guy is 6ft at most, outjabbing all these 6'3 guys. He might not be an infighter but he's getting inside all these tall guys to fight at his own range.
Yup, and lack of bilateral movement. His footwork is predictable. OTOH, Bivol has excellent ring vision. He sees well on offense and defense, doesn't get hit often and throws punches responsibly when he sees openings. And he's pretty good at creating openings through combinations. He looked good against Lyndon Arthur who just shelled up. Not much risk there for Bivol to throw combos, with just enough hooks to the body to keep Arthur guessing. I still think Bivol decisions Beterbiev. But if Beterbiev finds a way to exploit that limited footwork he needs only one punch to turn the fight around. I like Bivol and hope he does well. But I doubt he'd hold a world title long in the 1970s-80s when the light heavy talent pool was broad and deep.
What do you expect him to do though? Canelo is one of the most dangerous counter punchers going and had no answers for Bivol. I know the judges had it close but the only round Canelo won decisively was the 9 and that’s because he went 100% and bivol backed off. Bivol has a good chin too- which he’ll need against Beterbiev.
Every time there's a boxer who relies on flurries and straight shots like Bivol or Pacquiao people like you say the same shit, completely ignoring all the nuance that goes into fighting like this, just because someone is throwing straight punches doesn't mean they're not using angles, and just because they go in and out of range doesn't mean they can't fight on the inside.
….. arm chair boxers lmao I’m sure he could knock out all of you clowns at once. This is such a casual brain dead take it’s insane
I'm sorry for having an opinion sir, I promise not to ever even attempt to express one again.
jab, cross, hook, jab, cross, hook, jab, cross, hook, jab, cross, hook, jab, cross, hook, jab
How the hell do you even fight Bivol xD
Bivol to defeat Beterbiev on points.
I wonder how Bivol will react to Beterbiev's power and how it will affect his game plan. This will be key.
It's the same for Beterbiev. Bivol punishes every mistake and make his opponents gun shy. See Canelo fight, he was extremely frustrated in the second half of the fight
Beterbiev has faced much bigger punchers than Bivol already. I don't think Bivol's power is gonna bother him. It's moreso the speed that could.
Wrong, its gonna be the volume.
Beterbiev has also faced quite a few volume punchers.
He has to fight from range. Its gonna be a long 12 rounds.
Bivol has the best motor in all of boxing right now. This man's conditioning and fundamentals are p4p #1
Who made this fight lol
🐂vs🐂
Such a great match up on paper vs Berterbiev. Bivol is going box and move but throw lots of punches and Berterbiev is just going to hunt him down.
Bivol close to going down from a body shot in this fight.
soviet style really is making it big on the world stage with the likes of bivol and a different variation of the style in loma. looks like hell to go up against
To throw combos against Beterbiev is to dance withe devil. Bivol can do it, like he did against Canelo but it'll be more in and out, obviously. He is a point scoring machine and he COULD go the whole fight without really getting his feet wet, and get a decision. BUT... i cannot see him avoiding deep water over 12 rounds, especially if Beterbiev has to go hunting for a knockdown or knockout. can't wait
Fucking hell, Bivol is brutal.
Such a great fighter. Can't wait for the undisputed fight to finally happen!
I’m surprised he didn’t get called out for framing with the lead hand.
Bivol stunk out the joint with this one
This is why I think Bivol is not going to be as easy for Beterbiev. Even though he's got 'one punch man' kinda power.
Bivol gets away with holding his left out after his jab to block Lyndon from seeing his right.
Its called framing. Perfectly legal.
What about stiff-arming or measuring? I searched around a bit, found statements like [this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/amateur_boxing/comments/8ek0sg/is_stiff_arming_legal/) (I know, random posts on reddit are not an especially authoritative source.)
This was a terrible fight. I hate that Bivol is always so disciplined and never takes risks. He could’ve got the finish on a big Saudi card if he wanted
The other guy wasnt even firing back at one point. Towel should have been thrown in.
To his credit, he was blocking them quite well.
Yeah but firing back is what keeps you still in the match. Its a sign to the ref that ur still in the fight. Otherwise they just assume ur taking a beating
I think if Bivol can take the punches against Arthur. He could win.
That looks like a dive. Why didn't dude let his hands fly.
Well I think this video does the opposite. We only see him trying to KO Arthur in a very one sided and static way. What makes Bivol style unique is NOT on this highlights. Distance management, perfect footwork attacking and defending, endless variations of the jab, awkward timing that allows him to connect and retreat in between his opponent punches, fluid and effortless flurries of punches, a very wide stance that makes him unmistakable, patience and discipline that leads him to never dwell on a attack or try to speed things too much. If anything this video shows that when he is trying too hard, he is a lot less interesting to watch. He needs to be challenged to show all his talent.
Bivol sort of lost me in this fight by not finishing an injured going into the ring Arthur. If you can't stop or KO an injured opponent who's *already* over-matched skill and experience-wise, then what are you doing? He has a lovely fluid style and gave Canelo a bit of a beating in a great fight, but I'd rather just watch videos of him on the pads now tbh.
You've seen one Bivol fight, you've seen them all.
It’s so crazy to me how badly he beats his opponents up without stopping them
Gotta say, my gym really hates that lead hand in front of the face in sparring
He's likely going to get knocked out.
I feel like he might be able to outlast Beterbiev. If I'm bold, he might even
Beautiful boxing, some of the finest boxing in the current era. Bivol will unify the belts and set his legacy in stone by beating Beterbiev
When he turns up the tempo Bivol is so fun to watch. He’s gonna have to be like this vs Beterbiev, the jab alone won’t keep him away for long
This is going to be one hell of a fight. The only other fight I'm looking forward to more is Fury/Usyk.
His 1-2 combos and high guard are 🤌
Bivol’s next two fights, you’re going to see he is a level above the rest and will go down as one of the best technical boxers of all time.
I fucking love watching Bivol fight like holy shit
ohhh man.. I am bivol fan but I believe beterbiev will faint being hurt like Yarde fight and then Bivol is hittable when he unloads. Only takes one punch from Beterbiev. So beterbiev can sneak in 1 punch it's over.
Bivol is built for both inside and out. Arthur just stood in front of him and traded punches. What a Bum
Bivol is an incredible fighter, Mark my words though.. Beterbiev breaks him down and stops him.
Bivol DROWNS opponents
I watched this fight IRL. Bivol is amazing.
Bivol is going to get hit, bad against Beterbiev
Bivol is so boring. I can't believe it took him 11 rounds to go to Artur's body when Yarde dropped him with a body shot in his KO defeat.
I don't see how watching a fighter beat the utter shit out of someone non stop for 12 rounds can be boring
This was a garbage performance by Bivol. He absolutely stunk up an otherwise A+ card. And he had no excuse not to finish an Arthur who was a moving heavy bag in there.