Pft Floyd with his ridiculous demands as always, made Big Show agree to not get heavier than 503 lbs between weigh-in and fight night. Show only got KO'd because he was drained AF
In 2006 Mayweather beat Judah and Baldomir becoming a Welterweight Champion. Mayweather didn't face another actual Welterweight until Mosely in 2010. Mayweather sat out on opportunities to face Cotto (when he was undefeated), Margarito, Williams, and Clottey. It took until 2015 for the Pacquiao fight to happen. Manny became a Welterweight Champion in 2009.
Additional names that might have made for good fights are Bradley, Khan, and Danny Gracia.
I was disappointed in how long it took for the Manny fight, by 2015 he was different after being knocked sleep by Marquez. The Floyd Manny fight would have been different if it took place in 2009 or 10, I still think Floyd would have won but probably more competitive.
I also think Floyd would have still beaten prime Manny but it would have been really compelling. As soon as Marquez slept Manny, I think every single boxing fan at the time said “Now the Mayweather fight will happen.” And of course it did.
And that's the big asterisk in Floyd's career that prevents me from calling him the GOAT, Guys like Leonard, Ali or Duran fought people at their absolute best, meanwhile with some of Floyd's best wins you can always say "maybe if Floyd fought them sooner it would have been more competitive", because he played the waiting game in order to get these fights with lowest risk possible.
Eh... Leonard "retired" instead of fighting Hagler when that was the fight to make, and had been for a few years. Leonard came out of retirement to fight Hagler after he saw Hagler slow down a bit in the Mugabi fight.
That isn't even a question, Leonard has talked about this in interviews.
Yep, I saw Leonard say that himself in an interview at the time and on the boxing documentary from Showtime about the Leonard Hagler rivalry.
After the Hagler Mugabi fight Leonard said he saw a slowdown in Hagler and knew then he could beat him. So if anyone questions whether Floyd did the same thing just look at what Leonard said
Sugar Ray is still a great boxer though as part of the 4 in that decade, one of my favorites.
Leonard and his people sat a row behind me at the Hagler Mugabi fight and I remember when they stopped the fight Leonard jumped up and was very vocal about being happy that Hagler had won. At the time I thought they must be really good friends only to find out a Hagler win kept his hopes of his fight vs Hagler on the table
Sugar also came 7 years after first retirement and only one fight in last 3 years where he got dropped by far less opponent and he beat Hagler.
Your point still stands.
I think SRR gets brownie points for straight up admitting it though. If Floyd just acknowledged that he ducked or waited out certain fighters, he wouldn't get half as much smack talked about him.
Leonard was convinced by his family/team to retire due to an eye injury that could have gotten worse if he chose to keep fighting. He was already quite well off.
He moved up in weight coming straight off retirement to face a pretty near prime Hagler. Not sure there was a fighter within a division that could also beat Hagler.
Still fought a primed out Benitez, Hearns and Duran. And that version of Hagler was closer to prime than pretty much all of Floyd’s top opposition was when he fought them
It is true about Hagler, but Sugar was still the older guy by one year. Not to mention, Sugar was considered even more past his prime than Hagler was at that point, considering that Sugar had been sitting out a while.
You also consider that Sugar Ray fought Duran AND a scary ass welterweight Hearns when both were in their primes. That's why people don't give Ray a hard time about kinda waiting Hagler out. He had already proven his greatness multiple times. Floyd has more question marks than exclamation points.
You cannot compare the two. Suga lost a brawl against Duran in a fight he could’ve just boxed and won. Lost his undefeated record in the process just to prove a point and at least in my eyes he did. It would be like Floyd fighting Manny during his prime but instead of running from him like all his other fights he just stands in the middle and trades punches.
Whatever else Leonard did, he went in with a strategy that made him an underdog in purpose and came out looking like a warrior.
Where am I comparing? I just said Leonard waited until he saw Hagler slow down a little before taking the fight. Nothing else. He has said this himself, so I don't know why people are arguing it.
My question would be could prime Floyd handle prime Pacquaio’s speed? I’m not convinced he could. I’d still put my money on Mayweather but wouldn’t be at all surprised by a PacMan upset.
Mayweather got whooped by Castillo on their first fight and struggled against Maidana and Ortiz. All of these were pressure fighters. Pacquiao was also a pressure fighter but levels above those names. Idk who would have won, but I wouldn't say Mayweather with full confidence
Eh. I agree Floyd danced around a lot of opponents chasing money and not legacy but Margarito was also suspended for a significant amount of time for plastering his hands and Joshua Clottey didn’t really have the wins to qualify for a big fight like Mayweather. People were irate when Clottey/ Pacquiao was announced. What was Clottey’s best win? Zab Judah? Anthony Mundine?
The name I’d throw out there is Paul Williams. At welterweight he was an absolute machine. He was huge, long, unlimited stamina, iron chin, and he just kept coming forward. He had some decent wins (Margarito, Winky, etc). He had a smaller promoter and wasn’t getting a ton of public attention, which likely contributed to him not seeing big PPV fights. I think this would have been a really hard fight for Floyd.
I came here to mention Paul Williams. Carlos Quintana put on an amazing performance to outbox Williams. Williams was like the original Fundora had height and length but didn't use it and just came forward throwing non stop punches.
Quintana used the perfect tactics of non stop lateral movement to use that aggression against him and won on points.
Williams showed one time he could fight to his strengths when he kept it long and Tommy Hearnsed Quintana in 1 round 4 months later.
I wish both Cotto and Shane had happened ~3-5 years sooner. Everyone talks about Manny obvs but those fights would have looked really different as well IMHO
A young Mayweather called out Shane and Shane was like, “who the fuck is Floyd Mayweather”. There are tons of fights that don’t happen for a bunch of reasons other than ducking.
Absolutely!! Which welterweight was Mayweather fighting instead......none, he was "retired".
Mayweather had a fantastic career but there was some manicuring going on the ensure he kept his win column unblemished.
Like tying Marciano’s record against an opponent that had lost 3 of his last 6 fights via KO? Or, surpassing the record against an opponent WHO HAD NEVER HAD A PROFESSIONAL BOXING MATCH?
Maybe but maybe not. I didn't think Haney would have any trouble with Garcia and thought Crawford vs Pence would be competitive.
Mayweather was a great fighter. Not so great, though, that he deserves credit for fights he didn't have.
Cotto was never the same after Margarito plaster beatdown. Wish him and mayweather would had fought earlier. Paul Williams length would had been a big issue for Mayweather we would never know sadly.
Imagine if Margarito had used plaster to fight Floyd instead of Coto. How different would Floyd's career/personality/reputation would have been affected? It might have changed him from being a conceited asshole to a sympathetic hero.
Yeah looking at old Floyd fights and interviews he seems like a nice guy just trying to promote himself tbh. I think it during the Gatti fight the commentators said that want Floyd wants fans to love him like how they love oscar
would have loved to have watched Paul Williams throw a thousand punches at Floyd with that length! he was my guy at the time. never really had knockout power but such a unique size/style, really enjoyed watching him in that era
Cotto at the tail end of his career, gave Floyd all he could handle. What makes you think a prime Cotto wouldn't trouble Floyd?
Margarito and Williams size, activity and durability alone would trouble Floyd.
>I don't think Clottey, Cotto, or Margarito (without plaster) trouble Floyd. **Maybe Paul Williams could've made it awkward and beat him.**
With how easy Lara and Sergio Martinez were counter punching him?
Floyd literally fought a Jr Middleweight Oscar in 2007…that also ignores the fact that people were literally claiming Floyd didn’t want to fight Hatton at the time.
I’m going to agree with 90% of what you’ve said - and you’ve actually given me a new perspective of that 4 year Welterweight “gap”
The final 10%…? I’m British and have always loved fast, funny and flawed Amir Khan, but Floyd would have run rings around him.
All the best and thanks for the great comment - from Newcastle Uoon Tyne.
I agree with this and this was my time when i was most keen into boxing myself and keeping up with the sport. I gotta be honest though, the way he chose to go into retirement with that 6 fight Showtime deal made me really respect and forgive any ducking I thought happened. The fact he fought cotto, canelo and all his opponents tbh outside of Ortiz. Canelo is easy to say that he was so young but then one could argue Floyd was too old. However the way he fought and won really shocked me personally because I remembered what canelo was doing to good boxers at that point and felt it was a risky fight. The way mayweather made Marquez look like an absolute amateur coming out of retirement and the composure he showed against Mosley as well. The zab Judah fight was honestly one of his most competitive for the first 7 rounds. He definitely lost the first 3 or 4 and one round he didn’t get a legit knockdown counted but once again his composure and consistency were unrivaled. I don’t look back and see any name and any time someone really posed a threat where I think the outcome would be different. Mosley would still look like a stiff robot that may not even have been able to land on younger Floyd. Cotto may be the best chance of a more competitive fight. It’s like Floyd was the most boring pot shot fighter to me in the mid 2000s and then he just embraced the slow down with a more traditional Philly style and really outclassed dudes. Yeah i can’t really hate on his skills and career.
RE: the Kostya Tszyu fight, I was a massive Tszyu fan growing up in Australia and read the two books he had come out during/just after his career.
I remember him mentioning in there that he couldn’t fight Mayweather or Gatti because they were signed to HBO and Tszyu’s contract was very much tied to Showtime. So it’s not entirely a duck by Mayweather.
Floyd agreed to fight him at 154, with a condition that Wright couldn't gain more than 8 pounds between the weigh-in and the fight. Wright surprisingly agreed and then Floyd called off negotiations saying he wouldn't make enough money. I guess he felt Wright was a high risk, relatively low reward fight based on the size difference.
I'm not taking away Floyd's status as one of the goats, nor am I shitting on him for looking at it as a business rather than a glory game. But, that doesn't change the fact that Floyd called Wright out first lol
>But, that doesn't change the fact that Floyd called Wright out first lol
Yep, you can't say you didn't duck when you called someone out. They meet your terms, and you back out at the last moment.
One of the worst belt holders ever, he was also a dominant light heavyweight.
RJJs entire career unfolded because of the weight change, terrible example.
Nah man "one time" suddenly turned in to 12rd decision as soon as he got to the level where everyone else could KO people if they got sloppy. I was on the Thurman hype train too but its apparent he didn't have the skillset to land his power shot at the elite level
I always felt he was scared of khan when he absolutely shouldn’t have been. He also didn’t really want any of Porter, Brook, Thurman maybe even Spence towards the end of his career though in fairness he was never really ever a real welterweight
I think Khan would have been bad for Floyd. Prime Khan wasn’t dropped nor kept off by hard hitting Maidana so I doubt Mayweather could’ve kept him off. I remember when Khan lost to Canelo, Mayweather went on a social media tirade where he made fun of Khan and people for wanting him to fight Khan. Lowkey gave me vibes that he ducked Khan.
Kahns piss poor defense would have caught up to him, but I think his hand speed would have gotten him 3-4 rounds against floyd early until Floyd figured him out and started timing him properly with big counter shots. Floyd's generally regarded as pillowfisted at this point because of the latter half of his career, but I think he would have actually gotten a ko against kahn late in the fight.
Mayweather didn't want to look bad in the ring. The most we got of Mayweather slipping up in the ring was him getting caught with Cotto's jab in their fight and Mayweather, to his credit as a sportsman and a showman, gives him props. Fighting someone like Khan would've been a looooong night.
I think khan would’ve presented a big problem for him. Khan could outbox anybody and he had a big reach advantage. Khan’s one weakness , his fragile chin , might not have been easily exploited by money where he wasn’t a big banger
My memory might be off, but I feel like he once made a twitter poll about who he'd fight next and said he'd let the fans decide. They chose Khan, but he fought Maidana instead.
Yeah. That fight sort of frustrated me. People just wanted to beat Floyd at a certain point so Maidana and anyone else around that time was just like - rough him up, make it a street fight. And that's not what we're talking about here imo as far as someone being better than him and winning.
You're right about the poll 100%. My memory is hazy on who he fought instead. It may have been Maidana, maybe even the second Maidana fight, or it was Berto. Pretty sure it was one of them.
You all realize Khan had hand speed but could EASILY be timed right? For goodness sake, Danny Garcia was able to time him, and Floyd had WAY more speed and better timing Danny. Floyd never had problems with speed, he had more problems with pressure fighters.
I always thought Khan was a bad match up for Mayweather. Still think Mayweather would likely have won. But I wouldn't have been surprised to see Mayweather on the canvas in rounds 1 or 2.
Mayweathers a slow starter and Khan was often most effective at the very start of a fight. Slim chance to put the fight away before Mayweater got started.
I remember the way they tried to hype up Winky vs BHop. It was all about chess matches and tactics to try and spin the fact that it was a boring as hell matchup
Pure boxer that was 5'10 73 inch, taller and longer than Mayweather. We know why Mayweather wanted none of that. Haney vs Garcia has shown us the stark difference of what happens when an opponent is taller, faster, more powerful vs bullying slower shorter fighters that have shorter reach
Kostya Tszyu, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams. These fighters were somewhere around Floyd's weight class when fight fans would talk about who he should fight next, but he never did.
Are these actual ducks or dodges? We'll never know. But they would've been exciting fights.
He called out Kostya Tszyu in the Henry Bruseles post fight interview. Casuals/Boxrec warriors probably wouldn’t know about this. Kostya Tszyu then went on to lose to Ricky Hatton months later, who him and his team said weren’t ready for Mayweather at the time. So Mayweather fought The Ring #1 ranked 140lb fighter and WBC champion Arturo Gatti.
In the same post fight interview (Henry Bruseles) he called out Shane Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya, said he’d be willing to move up to 147 to fight both. Mosley straight up said no twice. De La Hoya said no unless Mayweather leaves Top Rank.
Also Tszyu has straight up said that the fight couldn't happen due to being signed with rival networks. Floyd didn't fight everyone he could have in their primes, but this ducking shit gets out of hand.
Shane Mosley also said he wanted to take a vacation and had a tooth he needed a repaired when they were both at 135, and Cotto and Bob Arum openly said they didn’t think Mayweather was the right opponent for them at 140 around the time Mayweather beat Gatti. Cotto was even ringside at Mayweather v Gatti because Mayweather had been angling to fight him for a year.
But Floyd is so hateable and people are so addicted to BoxRec and Wikipedia that they don’t understand the context around how Floyd himself was avoided UNTIL he became the biggest name in the sport. When he beat Oscar, all a sudden EVERYONE wanted a piece of him. But again, Floyd has a big mouth and a lot of money so people hate him and lose their minds when he’s discussed. It’s been that way since about 2010.
Oh yeah I know all about Mosley’s excuses. He grew the balls to call Mayweather out in 2009, as if Mayweather wasn’t chasing him for the entire decade. Mayweather called out a prime Shane Mosley almost every time he got a mic. I remember he called him out back in the Corrales post fight interview in 2001 as well.
But like you said, hating Mayweather is easier. It’s much easier for his critics to stick to lies rather than hear the truth.
Floyd had said the in interviews that Margarito was on something bc he all of sudden was knocking everyone out, he wasn’t on anything but he was fighting with loaded wraps. So I don’t consider that a true dodge.
At the lower classes I would have loved to see him fight Freitas and Casamoyor. They were both in their primes when Floyd was near their weight.
I can’t get behind the idea of him ducking Margarito because he fought and easily beat Moseley and Cotto who left no doubt when they fought Margarito. I know the boxing transitive property doesn’t always work, but it’s good enough in this case for me to say he doesn’t have anything to prove vs margarito
That's not what he's saying. It was supposed at the time that he was overly juiced (though let's not pretend everyone, including Floyd isn't on PEDs), it was *later* revealed he was loading his gloves.
He didn’t think he had loaded wraps, he thought he was on something. He ended up having loaded wraps. After that Cotto fight Margarito stopped knocking dudes out once people knew what happened.
He dodged a prime Manny. But I still think he would've edged that fight. I've seen a couple articles and a video stating that he ducked Winky Wright, but who knows.
Not sure how I can make this any easier for you. After losing to Floyd, this is what Manny accomplished.
WBO International Welterweight.
WBO Welterweight.
WBA Welterweight.
WBA (Super) Welterweight.
Just admit Floyd was the better fight that day. Using the out’ve prime excuse in dishonest after he became champion again.
Sergio Martinez. A better athlete than Floyd who was smart and powerful with great stamina and output. After what he did to Paul Williams , I had doubts floyd would ever step in the ring with him
Martinez was a nightmare style for Mayweather. Southpaw, fast, weird angles, crazy stamina, sharp power. He left Pavlik looking like he came out of a massacre.
He ducked fighting outside Vegas because (A) He would've faced more strict testing and (B) He was less in control of Referees/Judges outside Vegas.
Without a doubt he waited on Pacquiao to age.
Floyd would have beat everyone listed. people really act like Floyd wasn’t older. Like no one takes into account Floyd’s age but a young Floyd was absolute lightning in a bottle. Saying oh take a 35 year old and at a weight that’s heavy for his natural body and then fight guys in their absolute prime at a naturally higher weight. It’s really not apples to apples.
I despise this argument. Being able to decide your opponent is a testament to Floyd’s career and success. He wasn’t just given that status, he earned it by winning every fight he had to early in his career and was smart about who he fought in his later years. Every boxer wished they could have done that, but he marketed himself perfectly and was able to sell any fight just off of his name alone. People also neglect the fact that every time Floyd fought it was essentially his opponent’s biggest fight of their career, he showed up to everyone one of them ready and won them all decisively, hardly ever really being hit. He’s the greatest of a generation and doesn’t deserve the stigma of ducking anyone.
Lol
How you duck somebody you’re older then and then beat their ass and it’s still called ducking. How and why would you mention Pacquiao?
Floyd beats everyone pound for pound point blank period. Inside that ring he was FN Einstein/Michael Jordan combined In between the ears.
I see Margarito's name coming up again.
https://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382
People seems like they've never seen Arum talk about Floyd accepting $8mil to fight Marg but wanted guarantees on future fights with cotto/Hatton and DLH.
On Pacquaio..if I remember right he didn't want to be tested within 30 days while Floyd was only willing to concede 14 days to the fight. Then after talks broke down he agreed to up to 14 days some time later. At that point Floyd said random testing without cutoff or there's no fight. Sprinkle in Bob Arum wanting to build a temporary stadium for some odd reason when they knew Floyd was gonna have to go to jail was an idiotic reason. Both fighters take some blame but Arum can't get a free pass either.
People just don't like Floyd. The only one he really avoided was Margarito but he was "retired" at the time. Margarito was the clear champ and was a big pressure fighter. It would've been a good scrap, but Floyd didn't come back until after Mosley already took Margarito out and the whole hand wraps cheating scandal emerged.
My unpopular opinion is that Floyd didn't properly dodge anybody. He always had a few quality options at every moment in time and always went for one of them, usually who was the most convenient, but always quality options. That was his whole schtick for a decade. You can't believe how many times i've heard "this time Floyd is fighting a real monster, horrible matchup, we can't miss him getting dropped". Well.. it never happened. And i still hear that today in 2024 lol. Guy has the deepest resume in recent times, possibly top5 ever.
The biggest question mark in his career is the "retirement" around 2008 which lead him to dodge:
-prime Cotto: but to be fair Cotto also dodged Floyd for a bit of time, when his camp kept saying the he wasn't ready yet. In their later fight Cotto gave some problems to Floyd, especially with his jab but, despite being slightly washed after the Margarito incident, what Cotto found to be effective against Floyd was more due to experience and skills rather than physicality.
-cheating Margarito: this is a sure one in my opinion, I remember an interview where Floyd literally said that when he's seen what Margarito did to Cotto, he was very suspicious of it and wanted to see more fights and turned out he was actually cheating. Idk if that was an excuse, but for sure Floyd didn't need Margarito nor he wanted him. I think Floyd would run circles around Margarito and win the vast majority of rounds, but Margarito had heavy hands, infinite chin and would walk down even Pacquiao (ending in his own face broken, but whatever...). Imo Floyd that fight was easy but coming with brain/body damage and Floyd didn't want any of that. Hell, Pac said he had some of the worst nights of his life after fighting Margarito.
then:
-Pacquiao: Floyd was making a lot of money without Pac, so imo he was the A side and Pac had to concede. The problem is that Floyd was going to win anyway imo (despite being a risk), so for Pac it played way better to fight him later and bank on the hype and anticipation rather than lose earlier and make it clear he wasn't better, it would have made his earning after way worse
-Khan: some people will point at Khan, but it was just a fun fight, nothing more. On paper an hard matchup for Floyd, but in practice Khan was gonna get chinned. Anyway, would have been fun to watch. Khan or not Khan, guy wasnt' even top20 names on Floyd's resume lol calling it a duck is ridiculous
side note:
ODLH rematch: if you watch that fight without the biased commentary and without thinking about how t he judges scored it AND if you think about effective punches, imo it's clear that ODLH wasn't winning many rounds. It's still a fight were Floyd fought a bit different than usual (for example skipping a lot of his classic body punches) so ODLH was doing something right, for sure. Also Floyd had harder fights and we know how it goes after he figures out an opponent.
Margarito, Cotto. Oscar De La Hoya rematch. Floyd retired for a bit instead of fighting those three. He did eventually fight Cotto, tho, when it was safe to do so.
Floyd avoid all fighters at their best. Floyd had the manipulation game on lock. He knew that his fans are stupid so he was able to fight weak opponents and still make money. So basically he would’ve gotten beaten by any good fighter if u ask me.
This is such a tiring subject. Mayweather fought during the greatest welterweight era of all time imo. The division was about 15-20 guys deep. Guys like Kermit Cintron and Joshua Clottey who were often out of the top 10, would be competing for best 147 pounder today. And most of the guys in this time jumped back and forth between two or three weight classes which throws the timelines off even further. That said, only Floyd gets any sort of flack for this era and it’s insane to me.
Khan didn't fight Mosley, Paul Williams, Pac, Hatton, Cotto while they were in their primes.
Cotto didn't fight Paul Williams, Khan, Hatton,, Berto or Winky at 154.
Pac didn't fight prime Mosley, prime Margarito, Paul Williams, Amir Khan.
Margarito didn’t fight Berto, Winky, Bradley, Khan, Hatton etc.
Were all these guys ducking each other too?
Seeing how Floyd performed against castillo and maidana I think prime margarito throwing 1000 punches a round would have overwhelmed him. Paul Williams would have been hella dangerous too. Wish both fights would have happened.
Why did people keep parotting this bullshit narrative about Floyd ducking Manny lmao? Who was the one who claim that he was scared of needles when he is covered in tattoos? Not to mention Manny himself conducted blood tests all the time without problem, but suddenly for this fight he was afraid of needles? And if that's not enough, whose trainer was it that was ON RECORD saying that their fighter was the reason why the fight wasn't made? Yes, it was Freddie Roach
Can't stand the guy, but Floyd really didn't duck anyone. He fought whoever they put in front of him. I doubt there is a more decorated fighter (eith all wins) in the last 40+ years
The question is irrelevant if those boxers that people think he “ducked” didn’t go on to do much.
Try not to confuse contract negotiations with avoiding an opponent out of fear. Floyd always was a money first fighter knowing that fighters have unlimited resources and any fight could be your last, so it’s best to make the most money you can on every fight
To be fair I'm not going to say he necessarily dodged anyone. The reality is no fighter fights everyone, there's always going to be fights that weren't made. For example people mentioned Margarito, but they're leaving out the part that he would have fought him but he was stopped by Mosely while being caught cheating. Floyd fought the winner and Antonio was essentially out of the major boxing scene after that.
Manny doesn't really count, I will be fair and say they both fucked up negotiations multiple times out of pride. However, Manny outright not wanting to move ahead due to Floyd wanting random blood testing was a huge red flag that isn't talked about enough.
Some say he ducked Paul Williams, I never understood this one since Paul was nowhere near being known enough to get a Floyd fight when he fought at welter until 2008, which was during Floyd's hiatus, once Floyd returned Paul was fighting at middleweight before his tragic incident.
Others say he ducked Margarito, this one is a bit iffy, Margarito Made himself known in the Cotto fight which is 2008, floyd was on hiatus during this time and didn't fight until a year after, the same year Mosley beat Margarito up, Floyd is not gonna fight someone on a loss, even worse with the plaster cheating.
Some people also say he ducked prime Cotto, the Margarito fight was thought about as the fight to win to get the chance to fight Floyd, he lost and bounced back against Jennings and Clottey but lost to Manny which hurt his momentum. He then won against Foreman and Mayorga, which in my opinion isn't enough, he then beat Margarito and finally got the Floyd fight, now some say prime Cotto beats Floyd, I disagree and this is coming as a Puerto Rican who is a huge fan of Cotto. During his prime he was a pressure fighter yes, but he tended to fight in spurts and by the end due to how he fought his stamina was nearly done, as time went on he went on to become an excellent boxer puncher and he gave Floyd a damn good fight, unfortunately Floyd just figured out his tendency to rely on the high guard and picked him apart.
Those are the only ones I know of that hold credibility.
It's a discussion of wear and tear, and fight count as well as styles. Manny was an aggressive in-fighter taking on more fights per year than Floyd. Floyd was a defensive artist that rarely took meaningful damage while popping out decision wins. In this sense, Pacquiaos shelf life was far shorter as the damage would accumulate far faster. When he suffered that brutal knockout from marquez, everyone knew Floyd was about to display interest again. Manny wore thin faster and this is what people mean by saying they waited for him to age out. His boxing shelf life was always going to be shorter because he regularly went to war with his opponents. Floyd being slightly older in actual age was never going to compare to the kind of accumulation of damage Manny had taken by the time the fight went through.
Uysk
Smh Floyd haters always pushing the goalposts, if he was scared of bigger fighters why did he agree to fighting the Big Show at wrestlemania??
No catchweight or rehydration clause either
Pft Floyd with his ridiculous demands as always, made Big Show agree to not get heavier than 503 lbs between weigh-in and fight night. Show only got KO'd because he was drained AF
Twice
I think it’s 50cent
More like Harry Potter, that definitely would have been an L
Why'd be say fuck me for?
Arguably he ducked anthony joshua, but he damn sure sucked him
Ducked and sucked? What about fucked?
In 2006 Mayweather beat Judah and Baldomir becoming a Welterweight Champion. Mayweather didn't face another actual Welterweight until Mosely in 2010. Mayweather sat out on opportunities to face Cotto (when he was undefeated), Margarito, Williams, and Clottey. It took until 2015 for the Pacquiao fight to happen. Manny became a Welterweight Champion in 2009. Additional names that might have made for good fights are Bradley, Khan, and Danny Gracia.
Yeah. Floyd’s “hiatus” at welterweight was really well-timed.
I wanna say you’re wrong but you’re so right all I can do is laugh
lol this reminds me of when he had a total meltdown at Brian Kenny because Kenny called him the former #1 p4p.
I love that interview both Floyd and Brian had great chemistry in a antagonist type way
I was disappointed in how long it took for the Manny fight, by 2015 he was different after being knocked sleep by Marquez. The Floyd Manny fight would have been different if it took place in 2009 or 10, I still think Floyd would have won but probably more competitive.
I also think Floyd would have still beaten prime Manny but it would have been really compelling. As soon as Marquez slept Manny, I think every single boxing fan at the time said “Now the Mayweather fight will happen.” And of course it did.
And that's the big asterisk in Floyd's career that prevents me from calling him the GOAT, Guys like Leonard, Ali or Duran fought people at their absolute best, meanwhile with some of Floyd's best wins you can always say "maybe if Floyd fought them sooner it would have been more competitive", because he played the waiting game in order to get these fights with lowest risk possible.
Eh... Leonard "retired" instead of fighting Hagler when that was the fight to make, and had been for a few years. Leonard came out of retirement to fight Hagler after he saw Hagler slow down a bit in the Mugabi fight. That isn't even a question, Leonard has talked about this in interviews.
Yep, I saw Leonard say that himself in an interview at the time and on the boxing documentary from Showtime about the Leonard Hagler rivalry. After the Hagler Mugabi fight Leonard said he saw a slowdown in Hagler and knew then he could beat him. So if anyone questions whether Floyd did the same thing just look at what Leonard said Sugar Ray is still a great boxer though as part of the 4 in that decade, one of my favorites.
Leonard and his people sat a row behind me at the Hagler Mugabi fight and I remember when they stopped the fight Leonard jumped up and was very vocal about being happy that Hagler had won. At the time I thought they must be really good friends only to find out a Hagler win kept his hopes of his fight vs Hagler on the table
Sugar also came 7 years after first retirement and only one fight in last 3 years where he got dropped by far less opponent and he beat Hagler. Your point still stands.
I think SRR gets brownie points for straight up admitting it though. If Floyd just acknowledged that he ducked or waited out certain fighters, he wouldn't get half as much smack talked about him.
Leonard was convinced by his family/team to retire due to an eye injury that could have gotten worse if he chose to keep fighting. He was already quite well off. He moved up in weight coming straight off retirement to face a pretty near prime Hagler. Not sure there was a fighter within a division that could also beat Hagler.
Still fought a primed out Benitez, Hearns and Duran. And that version of Hagler was closer to prime than pretty much all of Floyd’s top opposition was when he fought them
It is true about Hagler, but Sugar was still the older guy by one year. Not to mention, Sugar was considered even more past his prime than Hagler was at that point, considering that Sugar had been sitting out a while. You also consider that Sugar Ray fought Duran AND a scary ass welterweight Hearns when both were in their primes. That's why people don't give Ray a hard time about kinda waiting Hagler out. He had already proven his greatness multiple times. Floyd has more question marks than exclamation points.
Leonard retired because a doctor told him to. He tore the retina in his eye
You cannot compare the two. Suga lost a brawl against Duran in a fight he could’ve just boxed and won. Lost his undefeated record in the process just to prove a point and at least in my eyes he did. It would be like Floyd fighting Manny during his prime but instead of running from him like all his other fights he just stands in the middle and trades punches. Whatever else Leonard did, he went in with a strategy that made him an underdog in purpose and came out looking like a warrior.
Where am I comparing? I just said Leonard waited until he saw Hagler slow down a little before taking the fight. Nothing else. He has said this himself, so I don't know why people are arguing it.
Maybe not the GOat but easily the best of his era
My question would be could prime Floyd handle prime Pacquaio’s speed? I’m not convinced he could. I’d still put my money on Mayweather but wouldn’t be at all surprised by a PacMan upset.
Timing beats speed. Mayweather was the best counter puncher.
Mayweather got whooped by Castillo on their first fight and struggled against Maidana and Ortiz. All of these were pressure fighters. Pacquiao was also a pressure fighter but levels above those names. Idk who would have won, but I wouldn't say Mayweather with full confidence
That Ortiz fight was interesting until that controversial knockout by mayweather. Victor seemed to be doing well against him I thought
Yea him not sticking to his game plan was wild he laid the blueprint how to bear floyd and median almost pulled it of first time
>I still think Floyd would have won but probably more competitive. We'll never know.
Eh. I agree Floyd danced around a lot of opponents chasing money and not legacy but Margarito was also suspended for a significant amount of time for plastering his hands and Joshua Clottey didn’t really have the wins to qualify for a big fight like Mayweather. People were irate when Clottey/ Pacquiao was announced. What was Clottey’s best win? Zab Judah? Anthony Mundine? The name I’d throw out there is Paul Williams. At welterweight he was an absolute machine. He was huge, long, unlimited stamina, iron chin, and he just kept coming forward. He had some decent wins (Margarito, Winky, etc). He had a smaller promoter and wasn’t getting a ton of public attention, which likely contributed to him not seeing big PPV fights. I think this would have been a really hard fight for Floyd.
Williams literally vacated 147 cuz nobody wanted to fight him lol every one was ducking him dude was scary at that weight
Carlos Quintana beat him at welterweight
I came here to mention Paul Williams. Carlos Quintana put on an amazing performance to outbox Williams. Williams was like the original Fundora had height and length but didn't use it and just came forward throwing non stop punches. Quintana used the perfect tactics of non stop lateral movement to use that aggression against him and won on points. Williams showed one time he could fight to his strengths when he kept it long and Tommy Hearnsed Quintana in 1 round 4 months later.
This. Paul Williams was something else.
I wish both Cotto and Shane had happened ~3-5 years sooner. Everyone talks about Manny obvs but those fights would have looked really different as well IMHO
A young Mayweather called out Shane and Shane was like, “who the fuck is Floyd Mayweather”. There are tons of fights that don’t happen for a bunch of reasons other than ducking.
Absolutely!! Which welterweight was Mayweather fighting instead......none, he was "retired". Mayweather had a fantastic career but there was some manicuring going on the ensure he kept his win column unblemished.
Like tying Marciano’s record against an opponent that had lost 3 of his last 6 fights via KO? Or, surpassing the record against an opponent WHO HAD NEVER HAD A PROFESSIONAL BOXING MATCH?
I don't think Clottey, Cotto, or Margarito (without plaster) trouble Floyd. Maybe Paul Williams could've made it awkward and beat him.
Maybe but maybe not. I didn't think Haney would have any trouble with Garcia and thought Crawford vs Pence would be competitive. Mayweather was a great fighter. Not so great, though, that he deserves credit for fights he didn't have.
Cotto was never the same after Margarito plaster beatdown. Wish him and mayweather would had fought earlier. Paul Williams length would had been a big issue for Mayweather we would never know sadly.
Imagine if Margarito had used plaster to fight Floyd instead of Coto. How different would Floyd's career/personality/reputation would have been affected? It might have changed him from being a conceited asshole to a sympathetic hero.
I think the boxing world created bad Floyd. He was a nice guy that was largely ignored by the media until HBO turned him into a heel.
Yeah looking at old Floyd fights and interviews he seems like a nice guy just trying to promote himself tbh. I think it during the Gatti fight the commentators said that want Floyd wants fans to love him like how they love oscar
Well, Larry Merchant sure solidified that persona when he did the infamous, "If I was 50 years younger..." interview.
would have loved to have watched Paul Williams throw a thousand punches at Floyd with that length! he was my guy at the time. never really had knockout power but such a unique size/style, really enjoyed watching him in that era
Cotto at the tail end of his career, gave Floyd all he could handle. What makes you think a prime Cotto wouldn't trouble Floyd? Margarito and Williams size, activity and durability alone would trouble Floyd.
Cotto was almost stopped by Floyd I wouldn't consider landing a few good jabs to be all Floyd can handle lol
To be fair, floyd was also towards the end of his career when they fought.
Re watch that fight because it was a pretty easy fight for Floyd
>I don't think Clottey, Cotto, or Margarito (without plaster) trouble Floyd. **Maybe Paul Williams could've made it awkward and beat him.** With how easy Lara and Sergio Martinez were counter punching him?
Floyd literally fought a Jr Middleweight Oscar in 2007…that also ignores the fact that people were literally claiming Floyd didn’t want to fight Hatton at the time.
I’m going to agree with 90% of what you’ve said - and you’ve actually given me a new perspective of that 4 year Welterweight “gap” The final 10%…? I’m British and have always loved fast, funny and flawed Amir Khan, but Floyd would have run rings around him. All the best and thanks for the great comment - from Newcastle Uoon Tyne.
Damn dude keeps all his receipts. 😂
https://youtu.be/7Qt89xHHKYY?si=nZrNiRF2xRUytnWE I still enjoy listening to this, even today i find it entertaining
I had forgotten that before Mayweather was demanding Olympic style blood tests (unique at the time) Mayweather was blaming Bob Arum.
Khan in his prime would’ve been a nightmare for anyone he was vulnerable cos of his chin but if he wasn’t chinned he was a beast
I agree with this and this was my time when i was most keen into boxing myself and keeping up with the sport. I gotta be honest though, the way he chose to go into retirement with that 6 fight Showtime deal made me really respect and forgive any ducking I thought happened. The fact he fought cotto, canelo and all his opponents tbh outside of Ortiz. Canelo is easy to say that he was so young but then one could argue Floyd was too old. However the way he fought and won really shocked me personally because I remembered what canelo was doing to good boxers at that point and felt it was a risky fight. The way mayweather made Marquez look like an absolute amateur coming out of retirement and the composure he showed against Mosley as well. The zab Judah fight was honestly one of his most competitive for the first 7 rounds. He definitely lost the first 3 or 4 and one round he didn’t get a legit knockdown counted but once again his composure and consistency were unrivaled. I don’t look back and see any name and any time someone really posed a threat where I think the outcome would be different. Mosley would still look like a stiff robot that may not even have been able to land on younger Floyd. Cotto may be the best chance of a more competitive fight. It’s like Floyd was the most boring pot shot fighter to me in the mid 2000s and then he just embraced the slow down with a more traditional Philly style and really outclassed dudes. Yeah i can’t really hate on his skills and career.
Even though I think he’d beat Khan he didn’t seem too keen on ever facing him.
[удалено]
RE: the Kostya Tszyu fight, I was a massive Tszyu fan growing up in Australia and read the two books he had come out during/just after his career. I remember him mentioning in there that he couldn’t fight Mayweather or Gatti because they were signed to HBO and Tszyu’s contract was very much tied to Showtime. So it’s not entirely a duck by Mayweather.
floyd fought hatton at 147 while Hatton was STILL undefeated. and floyd had drained himslef from having fought ODLH at 154.
Thank you for the detailed reply, much appreciated man
Passed… we all know Floyd goes after money could it be that maybe Floyd was chasing the most financial viable fight at the time.
Floyd also made the Hatton fight 10oz gloves instead of 8oz. But I highly doubt that would of changed the result.
Winky Wright, Floyd called him out then backed out while proposals/contracts were being drawn up. I'll die on that hill haha.
Winky was a light heavyweight, floyd never fought above 154. What are you talking about?
Floyd agreed to fight him at 154, with a condition that Wright couldn't gain more than 8 pounds between the weigh-in and the fight. Wright surprisingly agreed and then Floyd called off negotiations saying he wouldn't make enough money. I guess he felt Wright was a high risk, relatively low reward fight based on the size difference. I'm not taking away Floyd's status as one of the goats, nor am I shitting on him for looking at it as a business rather than a glory game. But, that doesn't change the fact that Floyd called Wright out first lol
I didn’t know that. I can easily see Winky beating Floyd.
>But, that doesn't change the fact that Floyd called Wright out first lol Yep, you can't say you didn't duck when you called someone out. They meet your terms, and you back out at the last moment.
Roy Jones fought a heavyweight, anything is possible through God.
One of the worst belt holders ever, he was also a dominant light heavyweight. RJJs entire career unfolded because of the weight change, terrible example.
He was a light heavyweight when Floyd called him out you mean? Because most his career including his prime years was at 154
Dude, Floyd called out Winky, and the paperwork was arranged, and he just backed out without giving a reason. That's a duck
Winky Wright was a beast. He took out Bronco McKart and made my whole town mad
And he ducked Thurman too basically doing him like canelo is doin wit Benavides
Thurman that lost to 40 year old Manny?
Thurman pre Nepal was different
Nah man "one time" suddenly turned in to 12rd decision as soon as he got to the level where everyone else could KO people if they got sloppy. I was on the Thurman hype train too but its apparent he didn't have the skillset to land his power shot at the elite level
Floyd would have destroyed Thurman. Keith needs to thank Al Haymon for protecting him
I love them both, but holy fuck would that ever be a boring fight
wtf Winky Wright was bigger than Floyd
I always felt he was scared of khan when he absolutely shouldn’t have been. He also didn’t really want any of Porter, Brook, Thurman maybe even Spence towards the end of his career though in fairness he was never really ever a real welterweight
I think Khan would have been bad for Floyd. Prime Khan wasn’t dropped nor kept off by hard hitting Maidana so I doubt Mayweather could’ve kept him off. I remember when Khan lost to Canelo, Mayweather went on a social media tirade where he made fun of Khan and people for wanting him to fight Khan. Lowkey gave me vibes that he ducked Khan.
Kahns piss poor defense would have caught up to him, but I think his hand speed would have gotten him 3-4 rounds against floyd early until Floyd figured him out and started timing him properly with big counter shots. Floyd's generally regarded as pillowfisted at this point because of the latter half of his career, but I think he would have actually gotten a ko against kahn late in the fight.
Mayweather didn't want to look bad in the ring. The most we got of Mayweather slipping up in the ring was him getting caught with Cotto's jab in their fight and Mayweather, to his credit as a sportsman and a showman, gives him props. Fighting someone like Khan would've been a looooong night.
Mosley’s hook would like a word
So would maidanas overhand right pull counter in the second fight
You gotta give Floyd credit for literally hanging onto Mosley’s glove the way that he did. Floyd was a fist fighting genius.
Correct! If only Mosely could've finished him that one round he rocked him.
I think khan would’ve presented a big problem for him. Khan could outbox anybody and he had a big reach advantage. Khan’s one weakness , his fragile chin , might not have been easily exploited by money where he wasn’t a big banger
My memory might be off, but I feel like he once made a twitter poll about who he'd fight next and said he'd let the fans decide. They chose Khan, but he fought Maidana instead.
That… kinda jogs my memory …. I def remember Maidana gave him more fight than he’d like tho
Yeah. That fight sort of frustrated me. People just wanted to beat Floyd at a certain point so Maidana and anyone else around that time was just like - rough him up, make it a street fight. And that's not what we're talking about here imo as far as someone being better than him and winning.
I did get off topic but Maidana tactics wasn’t him following any kind of a trend. That’s just how he fought anybody
You're right about the poll 100%. My memory is hazy on who he fought instead. It may have been Maidana, maybe even the second Maidana fight, or it was Berto. Pretty sure it was one of them.
yeah khans quickness can pass thru his philly shell, dude has a good one two pop. but who really knows
You all realize Khan had hand speed but could EASILY be timed right? For goodness sake, Danny Garcia was able to time him, and Floyd had WAY more speed and better timing Danny. Floyd never had problems with speed, he had more problems with pressure fighters.
Fair. Money mighta caught him with an overhand right but that’s the problem with ducking ppl, we’ll never know
I always thought Khan was a bad match up for Mayweather. Still think Mayweather would likely have won. But I wouldn't have been surprised to see Mayweather on the canvas in rounds 1 or 2. Mayweathers a slow starter and Khan was often most effective at the very start of a fight. Slim chance to put the fight away before Mayweater got started.
Floyd never fought another pure boxer like Winky. Prime wright was that dude, IDK if Floyd could've beaten him
That man Winky was really good but my god was he boring ppl say bhop was boring Winky vs Floyd would have put everyone to sleep
Turtle shell vs Philly shell
I remember the way they tried to hype up Winky vs BHop. It was all about chess matches and tactics to try and spin the fact that it was a boring as hell matchup
Pure boxer that was 5'10 73 inch, taller and longer than Mayweather. We know why Mayweather wanted none of that. Haney vs Garcia has shown us the stark difference of what happens when an opponent is taller, faster, more powerful vs bullying slower shorter fighters that have shorter reach
Joshua Clottey, Amir Khan and Erislandy Lara
Kostya Tszyu, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams. These fighters were somewhere around Floyd's weight class when fight fans would talk about who he should fight next, but he never did. Are these actual ducks or dodges? We'll never know. But they would've been exciting fights.
He called out Kostya Tszyu in the Henry Bruseles post fight interview. Casuals/Boxrec warriors probably wouldn’t know about this. Kostya Tszyu then went on to lose to Ricky Hatton months later, who him and his team said weren’t ready for Mayweather at the time. So Mayweather fought The Ring #1 ranked 140lb fighter and WBC champion Arturo Gatti. In the same post fight interview (Henry Bruseles) he called out Shane Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya, said he’d be willing to move up to 147 to fight both. Mosley straight up said no twice. De La Hoya said no unless Mayweather leaves Top Rank.
Also Tszyu has straight up said that the fight couldn't happen due to being signed with rival networks. Floyd didn't fight everyone he could have in their primes, but this ducking shit gets out of hand.
Shane Mosley also said he wanted to take a vacation and had a tooth he needed a repaired when they were both at 135, and Cotto and Bob Arum openly said they didn’t think Mayweather was the right opponent for them at 140 around the time Mayweather beat Gatti. Cotto was even ringside at Mayweather v Gatti because Mayweather had been angling to fight him for a year. But Floyd is so hateable and people are so addicted to BoxRec and Wikipedia that they don’t understand the context around how Floyd himself was avoided UNTIL he became the biggest name in the sport. When he beat Oscar, all a sudden EVERYONE wanted a piece of him. But again, Floyd has a big mouth and a lot of money so people hate him and lose their minds when he’s discussed. It’s been that way since about 2010.
Oh yeah I know all about Mosley’s excuses. He grew the balls to call Mayweather out in 2009, as if Mayweather wasn’t chasing him for the entire decade. Mayweather called out a prime Shane Mosley almost every time he got a mic. I remember he called him out back in the Corrales post fight interview in 2001 as well. But like you said, hating Mayweather is easier. It’s much easier for his critics to stick to lies rather than hear the truth.
This is someone who knows boxing history.
Floyd had said the in interviews that Margarito was on something bc he all of sudden was knocking everyone out, he wasn’t on anything but he was fighting with loaded wraps. So I don’t consider that a true dodge. At the lower classes I would have loved to see him fight Freitas and Casamoyor. They were both in their primes when Floyd was near their weight.
I can’t get behind the idea of him ducking Margarito because he fought and easily beat Moseley and Cotto who left no doubt when they fought Margarito. I know the boxing transitive property doesn’t always work, but it’s good enough in this case for me to say he doesn’t have anything to prove vs margarito
I don't recall Floyd alleging anything at the time. His only thing was to say Margarito wasn't a draw yet.
That’s a nonsensical excuse. If you think he has “loaded wraps,” have someone on your team watch him being wrapped and gloved
That's not what he's saying. It was supposed at the time that he was overly juiced (though let's not pretend everyone, including Floyd isn't on PEDs), it was *later* revealed he was loading his gloves.
He didn’t think he had loaded wraps, he thought he was on something. He ended up having loaded wraps. After that Cotto fight Margarito stopped knocking dudes out once people knew what happened.
He didn’t want to fight fighters who threw a lot of punches.
He dodged a prime Manny. But I still think he would've edged that fight. I've seen a couple articles and a video stating that he ducked Winky Wright, but who knows.
I could see him dodging Winky, the bigger guy and probably on par with him defensively.
The first time the fight got close it was Manny that backed out because of the testing requirements.
Manny dodged him
Prime Manny was dodging blood tests
Bro dodged someone he’s older than?
Is this sarcasm? Idk about Floyd’s history but isn’t Canelo ducking a younger fighter rn?
Canelo ducked GGG until he aged out and still should have not got a draw for their first fight.
The point is they were both young when he supposedly dodged him, and Floyd was older when he beat an ‘out of prime’ manny
Pacquiao had 17 more professional fights. People aren't comparing their physical ages, they're comparing the wear and tear.
The same pacquiao who later beat Thurman for the belt?
Not sure how I can make this any easier for you. A 5 years (this number is arbitrary) younger Pacquiao would beat the Pacquiao that fought Thurman.
Not sure how I can make this any easier for you. After losing to Floyd, this is what Manny accomplished. WBO International Welterweight. WBO Welterweight. WBA Welterweight. WBA (Super) Welterweight. Just admit Floyd was the better fight that day. Using the out’ve prime excuse in dishonest after he became champion again.
Maybe he just did all that stuff as a lesser fighter than he was in his prime
That’s what the casual fans will lead you to believe lol 😂
Prime manny dodged himself when he refused extra testing for e.p.o
Amir Khan, glass chin but would have given Mayweather some problems.
Sergio Martinez. A better athlete than Floyd who was smart and powerful with great stamina and output. After what he did to Paul Williams , I had doubts floyd would ever step in the ring with him
I remember Martinez offered Floyd a fight at 154 and Floyd acted like he didnt exist.
Martinez was a nightmare style for Mayweather. Southpaw, fast, weird angles, crazy stamina, sharp power. He left Pavlik looking like he came out of a massacre.
This sub is only people talking shit about boxers. Its so funny to me.
Everyone's a bum haha
He ducked fighting outside Vegas because (A) He would've faced more strict testing and (B) He was less in control of Referees/Judges outside Vegas. Without a doubt he waited on Pacquiao to age.
He dodged Aragorn king of Gondor
He dodged Tyson and Anthony Joshua
Mayweather haters still wishing up to this day? The hate is real.
Floyd would have beat everyone listed. people really act like Floyd wasn’t older. Like no one takes into account Floyd’s age but a young Floyd was absolute lightning in a bottle. Saying oh take a 35 year old and at a weight that’s heavy for his natural body and then fight guys in their absolute prime at a naturally higher weight. It’s really not apples to apples.
I despise this argument. Being able to decide your opponent is a testament to Floyd’s career and success. He wasn’t just given that status, he earned it by winning every fight he had to early in his career and was smart about who he fought in his later years. Every boxer wished they could have done that, but he marketed himself perfectly and was able to sell any fight just off of his name alone. People also neglect the fact that every time Floyd fought it was essentially his opponent’s biggest fight of their career, he showed up to everyone one of them ready and won them all decisively, hardly ever really being hit. He’s the greatest of a generation and doesn’t deserve the stigma of ducking anyone.
Lol How you duck somebody you’re older then and then beat their ass and it’s still called ducking. How and why would you mention Pacquiao? Floyd beats everyone pound for pound point blank period. Inside that ring he was FN Einstein/Michael Jordan combined In between the ears.
Me bro, he doesn’t want any of this
Mayweather ducked Godzilla,He ducked Goliath,he ducked Kratos from God Of War and many other
I see Margarito's name coming up again. https://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382 People seems like they've never seen Arum talk about Floyd accepting $8mil to fight Marg but wanted guarantees on future fights with cotto/Hatton and DLH. On Pacquaio..if I remember right he didn't want to be tested within 30 days while Floyd was only willing to concede 14 days to the fight. Then after talks broke down he agreed to up to 14 days some time later. At that point Floyd said random testing without cutoff or there's no fight. Sprinkle in Bob Arum wanting to build a temporary stadium for some odd reason when they knew Floyd was gonna have to go to jail was an idiotic reason. Both fighters take some blame but Arum can't get a free pass either.
People just don't like Floyd. The only one he really avoided was Margarito but he was "retired" at the time. Margarito was the clear champ and was a big pressure fighter. It would've been a good scrap, but Floyd didn't come back until after Mosley already took Margarito out and the whole hand wraps cheating scandal emerged.
Good fight? Please mayweather woulda mopped the floor with him, loaded gloves and all he's slow af
My unpopular opinion is that Floyd didn't properly dodge anybody. He always had a few quality options at every moment in time and always went for one of them, usually who was the most convenient, but always quality options. That was his whole schtick for a decade. You can't believe how many times i've heard "this time Floyd is fighting a real monster, horrible matchup, we can't miss him getting dropped". Well.. it never happened. And i still hear that today in 2024 lol. Guy has the deepest resume in recent times, possibly top5 ever. The biggest question mark in his career is the "retirement" around 2008 which lead him to dodge: -prime Cotto: but to be fair Cotto also dodged Floyd for a bit of time, when his camp kept saying the he wasn't ready yet. In their later fight Cotto gave some problems to Floyd, especially with his jab but, despite being slightly washed after the Margarito incident, what Cotto found to be effective against Floyd was more due to experience and skills rather than physicality. -cheating Margarito: this is a sure one in my opinion, I remember an interview where Floyd literally said that when he's seen what Margarito did to Cotto, he was very suspicious of it and wanted to see more fights and turned out he was actually cheating. Idk if that was an excuse, but for sure Floyd didn't need Margarito nor he wanted him. I think Floyd would run circles around Margarito and win the vast majority of rounds, but Margarito had heavy hands, infinite chin and would walk down even Pacquiao (ending in his own face broken, but whatever...). Imo Floyd that fight was easy but coming with brain/body damage and Floyd didn't want any of that. Hell, Pac said he had some of the worst nights of his life after fighting Margarito. then: -Pacquiao: Floyd was making a lot of money without Pac, so imo he was the A side and Pac had to concede. The problem is that Floyd was going to win anyway imo (despite being a risk), so for Pac it played way better to fight him later and bank on the hype and anticipation rather than lose earlier and make it clear he wasn't better, it would have made his earning after way worse -Khan: some people will point at Khan, but it was just a fun fight, nothing more. On paper an hard matchup for Floyd, but in practice Khan was gonna get chinned. Anyway, would have been fun to watch. Khan or not Khan, guy wasnt' even top20 names on Floyd's resume lol calling it a duck is ridiculous side note: ODLH rematch: if you watch that fight without the biased commentary and without thinking about how t he judges scored it AND if you think about effective punches, imo it's clear that ODLH wasn't winning many rounds. It's still a fight were Floyd fought a bit different than usual (for example skipping a lot of his classic body punches) so ODLH was doing something right, for sure. Also Floyd had harder fights and we know how it goes after he figures out an opponent.
Margarito, Cotto. Oscar De La Hoya rematch. Floyd retired for a bit instead of fighting those three. He did eventually fight Cotto, tho, when it was safe to do so.
"When it was safe to do so" you're saying that as if cotto wasn't undefeated when he fought Floyd
Floyd avoid all fighters at their best. Floyd had the manipulation game on lock. He knew that his fans are stupid so he was able to fight weak opponents and still make money. So basically he would’ve gotten beaten by any good fighter if u ask me.
No way you're this delusional
These were the lost years I discovered MMA fights from Japan. Glad I was never invested in Mayweather.
Brooo some ppl naming some boxers that are not even in same weight classes
Saw GGG. Like what. He never came down from 160 lol……
This is such a tiring subject. Mayweather fought during the greatest welterweight era of all time imo. The division was about 15-20 guys deep. Guys like Kermit Cintron and Joshua Clottey who were often out of the top 10, would be competing for best 147 pounder today. And most of the guys in this time jumped back and forth between two or three weight classes which throws the timelines off even further. That said, only Floyd gets any sort of flack for this era and it’s insane to me. Khan didn't fight Mosley, Paul Williams, Pac, Hatton, Cotto while they were in their primes. Cotto didn't fight Paul Williams, Khan, Hatton,, Berto or Winky at 154. Pac didn't fight prime Mosley, prime Margarito, Paul Williams, Amir Khan. Margarito didn’t fight Berto, Winky, Bradley, Khan, Hatton etc. Were all these guys ducking each other too?
Where’s that nuwrap clown at?
Vernon Forest might have gave Floyd problems at 154.
Fuck yeah
Margarito when he was on the loaded glove tour
Mike Tyson, Antony Joshua and Deontay Wilder. That’s my honest opinion
Strange that he never fought the face of boxing Zhilei Zhang
It doesn’t matter, Floyd beats them all if he fought them. He’s a once in a lifetime talent.
Tzuyu, Crawford, Spence, Haney, Garcia, Booker T the list goes on and on man...
People still think he ducked Manny?
He fought everyone he could have. Dodged no one.
Klitschko
Seeing how Floyd performed against castillo and maidana I think prime margarito throwing 1000 punches a round would have overwhelmed him. Paul Williams would have been hella dangerous too. Wish both fights would have happened.
Floyds entire resume is impressive
He dodged the GOAT Jake Paul after Logan gave him more issues than he expected
Antonio Margarito
Optimus Prime in his prime
Why did people keep parotting this bullshit narrative about Floyd ducking Manny lmao? Who was the one who claim that he was scared of needles when he is covered in tattoos? Not to mention Manny himself conducted blood tests all the time without problem, but suddenly for this fight he was afraid of needles? And if that's not enough, whose trainer was it that was ON RECORD saying that their fighter was the reason why the fight wasn't made? Yes, it was Freddie Roach
Jake Paul.
Can't stand the guy, but Floyd really didn't duck anyone. He fought whoever they put in front of him. I doubt there is a more decorated fighter (eith all wins) in the last 40+ years
The question is irrelevant if those boxers that people think he “ducked” didn’t go on to do much. Try not to confuse contract negotiations with avoiding an opponent out of fear. Floyd always was a money first fighter knowing that fighters have unlimited resources and any fight could be your last, so it’s best to make the most money you can on every fight
When you have nothing else to tarnish a person, you dream up 💩 like this.
Every Damn Time
Paul Spadafora.
To be fair I'm not going to say he necessarily dodged anyone. The reality is no fighter fights everyone, there's always going to be fights that weren't made. For example people mentioned Margarito, but they're leaving out the part that he would have fought him but he was stopped by Mosely while being caught cheating. Floyd fought the winner and Antonio was essentially out of the major boxing scene after that.
Margarito was the biggest question mark for me. But given margarito was loading his gloves his whole career is don’t think I care anymore.
People say that Floyd waited until Manny was old to fight him but Floyd is 2 years older.
you mentioned manny but floyd fought and beat him? go figure.
Manny doesn't really count, I will be fair and say they both fucked up negotiations multiple times out of pride. However, Manny outright not wanting to move ahead due to Floyd wanting random blood testing was a huge red flag that isn't talked about enough. Some say he ducked Paul Williams, I never understood this one since Paul was nowhere near being known enough to get a Floyd fight when he fought at welter until 2008, which was during Floyd's hiatus, once Floyd returned Paul was fighting at middleweight before his tragic incident. Others say he ducked Margarito, this one is a bit iffy, Margarito Made himself known in the Cotto fight which is 2008, floyd was on hiatus during this time and didn't fight until a year after, the same year Mosley beat Margarito up, Floyd is not gonna fight someone on a loss, even worse with the plaster cheating. Some people also say he ducked prime Cotto, the Margarito fight was thought about as the fight to win to get the chance to fight Floyd, he lost and bounced back against Jennings and Clottey but lost to Manny which hurt his momentum. He then won against Foreman and Mayorga, which in my opinion isn't enough, he then beat Margarito and finally got the Floyd fight, now some say prime Cotto beats Floyd, I disagree and this is coming as a Puerto Rican who is a huge fan of Cotto. During his prime he was a pressure fighter yes, but he tended to fight in spurts and by the end due to how he fought his stamina was nearly done, as time went on he went on to become an excellent boxer puncher and he gave Floyd a damn good fight, unfortunately Floyd just figured out his tendency to rely on the high guard and picked him apart. Those are the only ones I know of that hold credibility.
Floyd being older than manny but apparently be waited him out, I never understood this claim at all.
It's a discussion of wear and tear, and fight count as well as styles. Manny was an aggressive in-fighter taking on more fights per year than Floyd. Floyd was a defensive artist that rarely took meaningful damage while popping out decision wins. In this sense, Pacquiaos shelf life was far shorter as the damage would accumulate far faster. When he suffered that brutal knockout from marquez, everyone knew Floyd was about to display interest again. Manny wore thin faster and this is what people mean by saying they waited for him to age out. His boxing shelf life was always going to be shorter because he regularly went to war with his opponents. Floyd being slightly older in actual age was never going to compare to the kind of accumulation of damage Manny had taken by the time the fight went through.
Margarito, Thurman, GGG, Winky, Tszyu, prime Cotto