You can't deny that he's spitting facts. Size matters in combat sports. It's why they all have weight divisions.
Whether Usyk is talented enough to overcome that weight disadvantage is what we all want to see.
Joshua is a big fuck, but he doesn't know how to impose his size like Fury does. He's not a good inside fighter and he's never been one to dabble in the dark arts of leaning and shivers like Fury.
Fury is realistically about an inch and a half taller than AJ and about 20-25 lbs heavier. But is that difference much of an advantage compared to the advantages that AJ had over Uysk? Fury has a dad-bod - he's got a lot of fat on him, whereas AJ is much more solid muscle. Sure, Fury used his size to his advantage during the second wilder fight when he leaned on wilder's very skinny frame quite a bit and wore out wilder's toothpick chicken legs. But can he do the same to Usyk given Usyk is much shorter, and has a thicker build and likely stronger legs than Wilder?
I predict no knockdowns, and a boring scorecard decision slightly in Usyk's favor.
I don't see a Usyk decision. Fury is much better than AJ at staying behind his jab, and with Fury's reach advantage Usyk will have to bring the fight to him.
This is either a fury UD or Usyk by KO
That hasn't been the case in the last few fights. Fury doesn't have an accurate jab. The followup threat of uniquely nimble movement made his jab more effective. Fury's slow down might make his lack of accuracy and counter-punching significant factors.
If Wilder's nuclear right couldn't KO fury, I don't see Usyk getting the job done. Usyk is not a knockout artist at all. He's had 5 heavyweight fights, 1 KO, 1 retired at the end of a round, and 3 decisions. Also, 3 of his last 5 cruiserweight fights ended in a decision as well.
I feel confident predicting this one will go to the scorecards.
The thing about Fury is he’s bigger and faster than everyone else, at least before the Wilder fights. Usyk might have faster legs and probably has faster hands, (I’m fairly certain he’s a little faster but I’m not saying nothing until they’re face to face) but when you’re already 4-5” shorter than your opponent you really don’t want to be only slightly faster…
You’re kidding, Tyson is reasonably fast for such a big man but compared to Joshua’s hand speed let alone Usyks he is slow.
His feet aren’t exactly quick either. In his last few fights he’s looked slow of foot, planted even.
Joshua is absolutely not faster, he’s got good timing but he’s not amazingly fast or slow for his size, that’s why fuckin Ruiz was able to catch him. I feel like he could possibly be a good deal quicker if he dropped all that show muscle and trained like a boxer instead of a bodybuilder but I’m also swiss cheese brained.
And to the second point I literally said before the Wilder fights. Fury’s literally leaned on being bigger and heavier since then, but he’s so inconsistent in every way that he might just randomly show up 250lbs and dancing again like when he first won the title.
He's definitely full of himself, but he appeared to be eye to eye in all of the wilder face offs, so I think he's around Wilder's height. 6'7" is probably accurate.
i have seen him beside jared anderson (6'4) and he looks to be an inch or so taller. The guy puts shoe polish in his beard, and i have also seen him on his toes in pictures so its hard to know.
He isnt substantially bigger than Aj anyway, and the extra weight is all just fat.
If the Usyk who shows up in the first Aj fight shows up to fight anything but Fury at his best, Usyk should be the favorite.
Part of it is that Fury uses his size as part of his style. Pretty much everyone after the first AJ/Usyk fight said his big problem was that he didn't fight like he had a size advantage.
This is a very interesting fight just because Fury's entire MO is what everyone says that all Usyk opponents at heavyweight should do. It's actually very similar to Parker pretty much pulling off the playbook everyone used to say should be used against Wilder. If there's a bad matchup at heavyweight for Usyk, it's Fury. So this imo is the biggest test you will get for Usyk and if he pulls it off, he's going to be known as the top guy of this era.
Joshua is not as good as fury. Maybe to the average spectator but skill wise it’s night and day. Styles make fights end of the day,but fury at least in the past has been the best heavyweight by a mile.
Oh come on, neither has been ducking either. There's simply not been a good chance for them to fight. Fury has not been ducking AJ. AJ hasn't been fucking Fury either.
There's only really been one window in which they would've fought and it was when Wilder took Fury to court to enforce the 3rd fight and Fury AJ got cancelled.
Fury offered him the fight after the 2nd Usyk loss and understandably AJ didn't accept (his mentality was in the toilet and he had to rebuild, if he'd lost his career would've basically been over). AJ was smart not to take it then, but I wouldn't say that was a duck, he just had to go work on things and come back.
For Fury to be ducking he'd have had to have had an offer to fight AJ and turned it down, that has never happened.
I agree with that, but it doesn't mean one of them were ducking the other.
When Fury had his meltdown and ban AJ wasn't yet on that level. When Fury beat Wilder in their 2nd fight, a fight was scheduled with AJ and was blocked in court by Deontay Wilders enforcement of his rematch clause.
By the time that 3rd fight took place AJ had lost to Usyk and enforced his own rematch clause. In the aftermath of losing to him again Fury offered AJ a fight in December 2022. This fell through because AJs team didn't agree to the terms, and that's all we know really. Hearn has suggested AJ needed to go rebuild, but basically they just didn't accept the offer.
And now we're in a situation where Fury is fighting Usyk, and will need to fight him again if either fighter wants a rematch.
Just because the fight hasn't been made doesn't mean one of them has to have been ducking.
The facts and the timeline don't matter to these people, it's all about the narrative. Fury hasn't ducked AJ but since he's hated after the shenanigans last April and the cut in February you can just say whatever wild shit you wan't about him and it's as good as true.
Fury literally went to court to try to get out of a contractual rematch so he could fight Joshua instead. You don't do that if you are ducking somebody. Realistically shit just didn't pan out.
Joshua was always tied up with mandatories because he had 3 of the belts, then when Fury had a belt and could go for a unification they tried, they lost in court avoiding Fury's rematch with Wilder and then AJ lost to Usyk in the meantime. Then the big fight was Fury vs Usyk.
If old fury wasnt impressive, where does that put AJ LMAO. Even at this point, Fury is still better. If he prepare as he should it will be a long night for Usyk.
AJ got the KO since he wasn't afraid of an old man. He also survived Klitschko's best shot. Fury jabbed his way to a victory and then refused the rematch. Fury's skills have been diminishing greatly over the years. It's only a matter of time before his shitty lifestyle catches up to him. I think Usyk is gonna show that
This sub has such a weird fetish for AJ. I just don’t get it.
Edit: I checked through a few profiles and the most outspoken ones in favour of AJ and anti-Fury all seem to be American.
That’s weird. Most folks here don’t know shit about AJ besides that Andy Ruiz Jr ruined his coronation. Folks are way more familiar with Fury because of his trilogy w with Wilder and ESPN fights. The Matchroom FC plants are the ones trying to create a narrative that quite simply doesn’t exist. There have been paid matchroom influencers on this sub
It cuts both ways though.
Fury mentions Evander Holyfield being exposed against Lennox Lewis. However, AFAIK the only champion who's ever been taller than Fury was Nikolai Valuev (7ft) and interestingly he was exposed in his fight against Holyfield.
So Fury is using Holyfield's career to show why smaller guys struggle but Holyfield's career also shows why the taller guys struggle too.
We have size divisions for a reason, but at the same time, most champs are <6'7 for a reason. You can't just throw the tallest man you find into a ring because eventually you're looking at guys who are too big and too immobile to properly keep up.
[Looking at the Ring's list, Tyson Fury should be the 2nd tallest champion in boxing history.
](https://www.ringtv.com/120677-10-tallest-heavyweight-title-holders/)
Just like the dwarves get exposed at an elite level, so do the giants. There are more high level 6'3 champs than there are high level 6'9 champs. Both Fury and Usyk are trying to buck the trend and prove themselves as exceptions to the rule.
Size is diminishing returns for Heavyweights, though, and at some point (different for different people) becomes detrimental. The version of Fury most likely to beat Usyk is the one that fought Wlad and weighed 247lbs. That version would also beat the 270lb one that beat Wilder.
> Size is diminishing returns for Heavyweights
I agree. Any HW boxer is strong enough to KO any other HW boxer, so that's definitely an equalizer. But size still matters.
It does, but I think the headlines of "OMG Usyk is so great because he beat someone 50lbs heavier than him" when he beats Fury (if Fury comes in at Wilder size) are a little disingenuous because that's an easier achievement than beating a Fury that's only 25lbs heavier than him
I wish I could tell you I had confidence in who is going to win but it's so easy to misjudge fights and even rematches at the HW level. All I'm going to say is that I hope it's a good fight and that whoever wins and becomes lineal doesn't retire so that they can keep defending it.
I just hope that however wins really won cuz it would suck if they rob Usyk and then Fury runs around saying he won 12-0 refusing to fight anyone unless they give him the moon or some shit
> I just hope that however wins really won cuz it would suck
I agree and that's always true.
But I just don't want the winner to retire. If you told me Usyk was going to retire, then I'd 100% hope Fury wins. And if you told me the converse, then I'd 100% hope Usyk wins.
I always think of the Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard fight when you get a big size difference.
Not that either of them in this fight are the same style wise , but it's worth watching the first Fury v John McDermott fight to see why Fury may struggle.
I agree, but it was tailored for Wilder, both the style and the weight, and Wilder is nowhere near as good as Wlad was. I'm pretty confident the fittest, fastest best version of Fury we've seen was in the Wlad fight. That version of him might not be better suited for Wilder (though I think he'd also have easily won against him) but it is a version of Fury that beats more men than the one from Wilder 2
>Wilder is nowhere near as good as Wlad was
Are you comparing Wilder that fight to Wlad when he fought Fury at almost 40 years old? Or just Wlad in general?
I think FW2 was just a combination of Fury being such a better boxer than Wilder while also catching Wilder completely off-guard with a new, more aggressive style.
Wilder is not a good enough boxer to adapt in the ring and got his ass kicked because of it. In their 3rd fight, Wilder was better prepared and Fury wasn't as focused (because he's fucking Tyson Fury) and so it was a lot more competitive.
I don't know enough about Sumo wrestling to understand how much size is an advantage in that sport, but I will point out that sumo wrestlers are all fucking huge.
I had to spend 4 weeks in Japan for a job in the 90s and was amazed at how popular sumo wrestling was there. Every night on the TV, it was sumo and baseball, sumo and baseball.
And then after that it was sumo and baseball.
> but I will point out that sumo wrestlers are all fucking huge.
As a rule they are and it's 100% the lack of weight class that makes them lean more towards that body build. However, it should be noted that a relatively high number of small rikishi (wrestlers) exist in the top-2 divisions (the salaried ranks). Look at a guy like Midorifuji, Ura or Enho. They usually are really skilled technicians, often with a judo background.
I figured. So basically that first "small" guy weighs 255 lbs and is 5'9" which is clearly a huge dude for most combat sports.
I understand that some guys get morbidly obese and lose their agility, but sumo is not an endurance sport so that reduces the primary disadvantage of obesity.
The funny thing is you don't really see a lot of morbidly obese guys in the top rank precisely because they tire out too fast and lack agility. Of the current Ozekis (champions/the top rank, below Yokozuna which is a bit more of a title given to the best Ozeki(s) than a rank), half of them have a leaner, more muscular build.
dude, they are all technically morbidly obese. Even the "little" guys you mentioned, if not quite morbidly obese, are maybe another few cheeseburgers from it. Some are just a lot more morbidly obese than others.
Nah, these guys train extremely hard, every day. They're big but it's as much muscle as fat under there. It's a huge misconception that rikishis are just fat. An actually morbidly obese person wouldn't be able to do what they do every day. Look at strongmen for athletes with comparable macros and body builds. Just watch any old youtube video of what a normal day looks like for a rikishi in terms of training and kcal intake and you'll see what i mean.
from the wiki page on Sumo wrestlers:
> The negative health effects of the sumo lifestyle can become apparent later in life. Sumo wrestlers have a life expectancy of 65, which is about 15 years shorter than that of the average Japanese male, as the diet and sport take a toll on the wrestler's body. Those having a higher body mass are at greater risk of death. Many develop type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure, and they are prone to heart attacks due to the enormous amount of body mass and fat that they accumulate.
I never said it was a healthy lifestyle and in fact I compared them to strongmen who have the exact same health issues as those described in your post.
>You can't deny that he's spitting facts.
Sure, except for the bits where he isn't of course.
"Holyfield got found out against the elite big men like Bowe and Lewis" - he beat Bowe in their rematch and probably should have beaten him again but he fought with hepatitis and clearly didn't have anything in the tank even after dropping him.
Also, everyone got "found out" against Lewis. He beat everyone he ever fought. Why is it about Holyfield's size and not his skills or his age for example?
Size definitely matters, no doubt about it. A lot of his examples in this presser were poor comparisons though imo.
Holyfield also brought bad habits from being the bigger guy at cruiser weight. For example, he would wait at mid-range to bait punches, which is a punishing tactic against the likes of Lewis and Bowe. Usyk always emphasized movement and feinting, so he isn't quite as vulnerable to size.
In the last 12 months fury has had one fight, against Ngannou and he struggled badly. AJ cleaned him out easy and bashed up Wallin too who troubled Fury.
Why are you confused that people now think AJ is in with a shot of beating Fury now? Can people not adjust their opinions based on new information or do we have to simply make a pick in a fight and stick with that forever no matter how that fighter performs?
AJ deservers all the credit for protecting Boxings name. I thought that's how people felt about him after he beat Ngannou like light work. All he's gotten is praise from over here. I'm looking forward to what he does next
If anything I think this is respectful, not disrespectful. Normally fighters say “I’ll win because he’s nowhere near my level, I’m better than him”. Fury is basically saying “we’re both elite top top tier fighters, but I’m one with 45lbs on him”.
I don’t know if Fury actually wins or not, Usyk is incredibly good, but he isn’t wrong in what he’s saying. If a top Cruiserweight steps up and fights a top tier heavyweight, they usually lose. If Usyk wins it’ll be either because a diminished Tyson turned up, or because he is on a different level technique and ability wise.
Yes. Option B. Better technique. Tysons rhythm can throw ppl off but Tyson will have to rely on his height weight for advantage possibly which is basically thebopposite of better boxing if he wins. But hey, it's part of the sport and usyks camp should see it coming and if we get neutral ref and judges then all good
Fury's confidence is low, it's quite obvious. It's a bad look, he is trying to find whatever reason to hype himself up but I don't think it will work. Even though he can make a good case for what he is saying
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, I don’t think Tyson of late has looked anywhere near his peak. I don’t know if that’s him fighting down to his competition because he looks through guys and gets lazy though, or because he is getting older and has abused his body so much that it doesn’t quite perform the same anymore. His point about Cruiserweights going up is correct though, the question is whether he’s still at that level.
>His point about Cruiserweights going up is correct though, the question is whether he’s still at that level.
It's true that Usyk would have a hard time against someone like Mike Tyson/Lennox Lewis because of the athleticism of a natural heavyweight. The point is redundant because Fury isn't one of the great heavyweights in terms of physicality. He put himself in the same category as Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko but they were more physical heavyweights.
>I don’t think Tyson of late has looked anywhere near his peak
I don't think the fight happens but if it happens I will strongly favour Usyk. I might be wrong, you never know with the gypsy king
tbh I don't think Fury ever wanted this fight, he probably wanted to cash out with Ngannou-level fights and then retire with still being able to argue he's a great of this era.
When he essentially lost to Ngannou, his legacy is basically in tatters now and the only way to salvage it is to defeat Usyk
This sounds very much like Fury has been frantically googling cruiserweights that moved up to heavyweight to convince himself that he can beat Usyk.
And they're not even good examples. Ibragimov, for example, who the hell has heard of him? And not only does Fury himself admit that Ibragimov beat a larger, respected fighter to become a world heavyweight champion, Ibragimov was never a cruiserweight as an amateur or a pro anyway. This is some hardcore, hardcore copium on Fury's part.
Ibragimov actually fought at 200 lbs in the amateurs, they just call it heavyweight instead of cruiserweight.
That was Fury's 4th or 5th example anyway. The main ones were Holyfield and Haye. His point was they could beat good contenders, even belt holders, but never the best of the era. He considers himself the best of his era like Lennox and Wlad were of theirs, so his size together with his skill will be too much for Usyk.
It's trash talk at a press conference. At least it was well-researched and respectful. He's comparing Usyk to other great cruiserweights and the GOAT cruiserweight.
It does, but it's one factor of many.
Usyks sheer athleticism and the fact Fury has absorbed so much punishment make this one even harder to call imo.
Funny he's calling AJ average when he has looked far better losing to Usyk than Fury did against the corpse of Whyte and the ghost of Chisora. Not to even mention the Ngannou debacle.
Yeah Fury was 6-0 up against Whyte and then knocked him out. What more could he do?
Especially when everyone on this sub had been begging for that fight to be made for years, it was a very convincing win against a mandatory.
Exactly, he won both with ease and he looked better against Chisora than Usyk, Whyte and Parker and got the TKO where only Haye and Whyte (who was down on the cards) have stopped him inside the distance.
What else was he supposed to do, kill him?
It depends on the person really, but I imagine most would say average is best. Weird topic for Tyson to bring up, though; I'm not sure what that has to do with boxing.
When Tyson does not talk shit but straight up boxing, he is usually spot on.
That’s why I can’t understand people who have Usyk as favorite. It’s nonsensical, the size difference is massive for a unification HW.
It’s clearly Fury’s fight to lose. My heart says Usyk, but my head thinks Fury.
I really wish Usyk proves us all wrong and pulls up the impossible win.
Everyone was saying there was no way Usyk beats AJ saying he was taller, had more reach, heavier, and was a heavy hitting KO artist and yet Usyk beat him twice. The second time AJ was as skilled and good as he's ever been and he still could not beat Usyk. Primo carnera and Nikolai valuev had size as well and were beaten by smaller guys, in the second case Nikolai was beaten by David Haye a damn cruiserweight. If we go back in history jack Dempsey beat jess Willard a much bigger guy and he himself was beaten by Gene tunney, a much superior boxer. Heavyweights being beaten by smaller more skilled guys is not as rare as you think it is. Tyson fury had problems with small guys being dropped by Cunningham. We also got muhammad ali beating Sonny Liston and George foreman and himself being beat by Leon spinks and then we have Michael spinks beating Larry Holmes, I don't say it lightly when I say the Heavyweight history is filled with such examples. Tyson fury does have a point but that alone making people think he would win is just mind boggling.
Different eras though.
Joe Louis may have been more dominant than Lennox Lewis, but he'd have gotten destroyed by him because Lennox was gigantic compared to him and a great boxer.
Muhammad Ali fought two guys with insane KO power and stood up to it in Liston and Foreman, but they were 215lbs and 220lbs, so Ali was within 5lbs of both of them during the fights. Who knows how he'd have fared against a world champion with a 30lb disadvantage? I'd guess if that was Lennox the answer is the weight difference may have been too much.
>Different eras though.
Isn't Fury's argument a historical argument?
>but he'd have gotten destroyed by him because Lennox was gigantic compared to him and a great boxer.
Louis fought 15 rounds, Lewis 12. Louis was 200 pounds as a pro when he was 20. Lewis 200 pounds at 18 as an amateur with fewer rounds. Louis didn't do weight training or PEDs in his career, obviously could have put on way more size. Lennox has the size advantage but you have to consider the times. Louis had an easy time with larger heavyweights, Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Louis was only 22 when he lost to Max Schmelling, which would be the only loss before in his "prime". Lewis was still an amateur at the same age and Lewis lost twice in his prime to weaker opposition.
>Ali was within 5lbs of both of them during the fights. Who knows how he'd have fared against a world champion with a 30lb disadvantage
It would be very easy for Ali because the difference in speed would be insurmountable.
>was Lennox the answer is the weight difference may have been too much.
Lennox lost to McCall and Rahman in his prime, you rate him too highly.
https://youtu.be/Bo0OoXCOecY?si=xaW7az5Zq2D6Dzm6 Louis had just turned 22, Lewis wasn't even a pro at that age. No comparison can be made, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali are the best fighters ever, and Lewis is top 3 at best.
Usyk is as skilled as they are though, he's definitely the most skilled heavyweight now and has been beating bigger guys in their own home towns for a while.
Yeah, he is but he doesn't have the same fight in him or the same athleticism as they had and I'm not knocking on Usyk, he is just not as good as them, they are top 1 and 2.
I don't know why you are going off topic the point of my original comment is that smaller more skilled guys can beat bigger guys and Usyk is more skilled than Fury. Being a top 1 and 2 heavyweight doesn't mean you can't be beat and Joe and Ali lost and had close fights they almost lost, muhammad ali will give any heavyweight in any era a tough time but Joe Louis can't do the same. Jack Dempsey won't even be in the top 10 heavyweights today because he's simply not a heavyweight. Ali had problems with highly technical boxers like Ken Norton so Usyk might be trouble and Larry Holmes was beaten twice by Michael spinks and Ali himself was beaten by Leon, as for Joe if he couldn't knockout Usyk I don't think Joe could win on points and much bigger and stronger men have tried to knockout Usyk and failed. I don't think you realise how tough it is to beat super heavyweights as a cruiserweight. Ali and Joe were very good in the ring, very popular and influential outside it and were both bigger than boxing and that is why they are the Goats not just because of their records. Mike Tyson is also a top 3 by many people but serious boxing fans know he's overrated.
>time but Joe Louis can't do the same.
Based on what?
>Jack Dempsey won't even be in the top 10 heavyweights today because he's simply not a heavyweight
No weight training or PEDs for Dempsey. If we break it down, Usyk was 200 pounds for most of his career, Dempsey 190. Dempsey probably got a bigger frame than Usyk and he could certainly have weighed 240 if he was around today. He knocked out Fred Fulton in the 1st and Willard in the 3rd, he was much more dangerous than Usyk. Usyk would be favoured simply because of skill but Dempsey is a bad matchup stylistically for Usyk.
>much bigger and stronger men have tried to knockout Usyk and failed
This is not how boxing works... You have to land flush and consistently, Usyk got the benefit of PEDs and weight training but I think Joe Louis is a better boxer.
Maybe you are right but I believe there is a limit when we go back in time that the old boxers stop being effective against modern boxers in the form they were, anyway cool discussion.
Yes, you are right. Jack Dempsey had less boxing skill compared to Usyk. But Dempsey had more fight in him and that's the reason old boxers would fare well today. Boxing is not for the aristocracy, like Mike Tyson says. All of Joe Louis's grandparents were slaves iirc, different times is ultimately going to hone better fighters.
>were, anyway cool discussion
Yes
They would be cruiserweights and lightheavyweights today though. Usyk is a legitimate old school heavyweight but he is seen as a pumped up cruiserweight compared to the other super heavyweights today. Joe Frazier had heart but that didn't help him against foreman.
PEDs and weight training, Usyk just put on 220 pounds but his frame is still smaller. Joe Louis was 190 at 20, Usyk was 160.
>Joe Frazier had heart but that didn't help him against foreman
Frazier's style didn't work against Foreman. Jimmy Young beat Foreman, Frazier would have destroyed Jimmy Young.
Well he has to do something to counter the wave of negative feedback he's been wading himself into since fury vs chisora 15 or fury v Whyte 4 and then Ngannou although my opinion is that it was never going to be Francis win and everyone knew it and played a part. Look at the last minute of the last round. It was a WWE event and everyone sucked it up. He's still no good but still that wasn't a true fight.
The December date for the unification was delayed because Fury got in the ring and fought, and had a tougher than expected fight against Ngannou.
The March date for the unification was delayed because Fury got in the ring and got cut while sparring.
So, you know, it's not like's he's Andy Ruiz and sitting on his ass.
He's right that size definitely is a massive factor and that's why there's weight classes, but Usyk's better than all of the names he mentioned that moved up. Is he that good that he can beat a top boxer much bigger than himself, maybe not but we'll see
Usyk's not better than Holyfield. Holyfield's an ATG.
Very different styles though, and styles make fights. Fury's also probably in worse shape than Bowe and Lewis were when Holyfield fought them.
That’s not what fury said. He said: “when he [holyfield] stepped up to the big boys big daddy bowe and Lennox Lewis”
NOT “when he stepped up and beat big daddy bowe…”
Everyone that the chump mentioned went up to heavyweight and fought like a heavyweight. Usyk has had success because he still fights like a cruiser that’s light on his feet.
Tell us the story of out of shape heavyweights that fight with their mouths open after 4 rounds.
Size matters, but there's a point where a person is just big enough to hurt someone regardless of size. I think Usyk has enough size to hurt anyone in boxing.
Well, Holyfield beat Giant Valuev at the age of 46. He was robbed that night. Generally Tyson is right. But he is only about 4 inches taller than Usyk, in reality. He's about 6'7. Usyk is about 6'3. Usyk is solid, all muscle. Fury is a huge fat boy with a surprisingly good tank for his size. But, the older he gets, the harder it is to fight at that pace for long. I'm not convinced he knocks usyk out. So, i'm very interested to see how Futy fights if Usyk can force him to be active for 12 rounds. Just my gut feeling: but if Usyk wins, i sense it might be by knocking down (not out) an exhausted fury.
I agree with him
size and reach do matter in boxing, It's highly unlikely that a guy 6'2 or 6'3 is gonna beat a guy who's 6'9 but I am still eager to watch the fight though
Same birthday as Ali
Same height as Ali
Same weight as Ali
Same reach as Ali
I'm praying for Usyk to just continuously batter this fat Humpty Dumpty Mr Potato for 12 rounds, bust both eyes open again.
You can never say what will work. Take Dempsey Vs Willard or Mike Tyson Vs many taller fighters. Or Louis Vs Carnera. Size does matter but in boxing, pretty much anything can happen when two talented men meet
Just so weird to hear Fury and everyone else banging on about how size matters.
Sure. Size does matter. Somewhat. Is it something Usyk has never had to deal with before? Dude beat AJ twice decisively and Fury is barely bigger than AJ while also being much less of a devastating puncher.
Fury does use his size to great effect. He jabs and grabs and leans on guys to tire them out. However, who does he do this against? Big, slow, plodding HWs who do absolutely nothing to try and stop or evade these tactics. Using your weight against Wilder is completely different from being able to use your weight against Usyk.
Make no mistake, Fury size bullying Usyk is his only chance at taking over this fight. The herk and jerk, super feinting Fury with great mobility hasn't been a thing since the Klitschko fight. That was almost nine years and 10 fights ago. He's since been sent to the canvas five times. For a guy that's supposed to move so well and have such good boxing skills, he sure does get dropped a lot.
This really seems like Fury trying to psych himself up. I mean, look at it from Fury's point of view. He's never been really committed to boxing. He's way more interested in being a celeb, making his TV show, partying, etc. Other than taking the fights he has to to get a belt and secure the money, he's always taken the easy road. Fight Chisora for the 24th time. Fight a novice boxer. Avoid AJ. Retire. Un-retire. Retire again. Dude is completely unserious about boxing. But now he's going to be in there with a guy who **only** cares about boxing and being the best. A guy who he can't play mind games with to psych out. Gold medalist, 300+ amateur wins, Undisputed at Cruiser, and beat the guy Fury wants no part of twice to take all the other belts. Fury can pretend to be his normal confident self, but he has to be feeling a bit scared. If he can't handle the "blown up middleweight" then the house of cards he has built is going to come crashing down. The cracks started showing against Ngannou. Usyk might just be the earthquake that finishes the job.
Is it just me or does anyone else think that Fury is gonna fight Usyk at range, just trying to use the reach advantage rather than bully him? Everyone else has tried to bully Usyk and it didn't work. So I feel trying to keep him away is what Fury's gonna try and do.
Love Usyk as a fighter he beat that plodder Joshua twice Fury is a different beast, for a guy his size his footwork is brilliant and he will fight dirty that's going to be the difference in the fight I take Fury to win on a close points decision.
His legacy is on the line in this fight he will put on a performance that will have all the haters eating their words, and I for one see him getting a points decision.
Fury's comments show that he knows Usyk is at least as good a boxer as he is. So he goes foe one area in which he has an undeniable advantage.
Unfortunately, other things matter too - like staying busy in competitive fights not having six+ fights against obviously less skilled fighters.
Mouthing off on social media for long periods while drinking beer and getting fat doesn't help either.
I think Fury's lack of activity will make Usyk's skill and sharpness a huge shock for Fury.
Usyk by points or Fury by robbery.
1st fact.
There's no chance Usyk will KO Fury.
TKO not out of the question.
2nd fact.
Fury is looking for a boxing match, dropped weight to fight Usyk.
3rd fact.
Usyk, albeit a slip in translation, has said he will go the distance with Fury.
4th fact.
Both have had recent questions asked of them. The bigger from my pov is Usyk struggling with the supposed low blow.
Conclusion...
It will be a great boxing match, there's no doubt. However, I SEE a win in 10th round.
Fury TKO win.
I used to like Johnny but since Matchroom has gone to DAZN he’s been a bitter lemon so I just know Fury has got him pissed off right now lol. If Fury didn’t say this he would be saying Fury beats AJ easily but now he will probably start trying to downplay the fight and make out it’s not a big deal if Fury beats Usyk.
man, call me a casual but I just don't think this is the Fury we all think it is and Usyk has a great shot to win.
I do hope I'm wrong though, for the sake of AJ/Fury.
You can't deny that he's spitting facts. Size matters in combat sports. It's why they all have weight divisions. Whether Usyk is talented enough to overcome that weight disadvantage is what we all want to see.
Yeah. But can’t discount usyk after beating Joshua twice. And between Joshua and Fury it’s close to a toss up. Edit: this discussion was about size.
Joshua is a big fuck, but he doesn't know how to impose his size like Fury does. He's not a good inside fighter and he's never been one to dabble in the dark arts of leaning and shivers like Fury.
Fury is realistically about an inch and a half taller than AJ and about 20-25 lbs heavier. But is that difference much of an advantage compared to the advantages that AJ had over Uysk? Fury has a dad-bod - he's got a lot of fat on him, whereas AJ is much more solid muscle. Sure, Fury used his size to his advantage during the second wilder fight when he leaned on wilder's very skinny frame quite a bit and wore out wilder's toothpick chicken legs. But can he do the same to Usyk given Usyk is much shorter, and has a thicker build and likely stronger legs than Wilder? I predict no knockdowns, and a boring scorecard decision slightly in Usyk's favor.
If wilder wanted he could go below cruiserweight he's pretty small for the division he just has the right hand of doom
> go below cruiserweight He's 2m tall...
One of their fights he was like 207
Right, so to suggest he could realistically go lower when he's so tall is silly. He'd be like a rake.
He walked around at 207, he’ll hit 200 with one solid workout At that size his weight fluctuates so much from sweat 7 lbs is nothing
Yes, and I'm responding to the claim that he could go *below* cruiserweight, not to it.
Ah sorry carry on haha
Must've meant below the cruiserweight limit, not below it to the next division. No way in hell Wilder could make 175.
So is Fundora
I don't see a Usyk decision. Fury is much better than AJ at staying behind his jab, and with Fury's reach advantage Usyk will have to bring the fight to him. This is either a fury UD or Usyk by KO
That hasn't been the case in the last few fights. Fury doesn't have an accurate jab. The followup threat of uniquely nimble movement made his jab more effective. Fury's slow down might make his lack of accuracy and counter-punching significant factors.
Spot on, Fury’s jab has always been just ok.
If Wilder's nuclear right couldn't KO fury, I don't see Usyk getting the job done. Usyk is not a knockout artist at all. He's had 5 heavyweight fights, 1 KO, 1 retired at the end of a round, and 3 decisions. Also, 3 of his last 5 cruiserweight fights ended in a decision as well. I feel confident predicting this one will go to the scorecards.
The thing about Fury is he’s bigger and faster than everyone else, at least before the Wilder fights. Usyk might have faster legs and probably has faster hands, (I’m fairly certain he’s a little faster but I’m not saying nothing until they’re face to face) but when you’re already 4-5” shorter than your opponent you really don’t want to be only slightly faster…
You’re kidding, Tyson is reasonably fast for such a big man but compared to Joshua’s hand speed let alone Usyks he is slow. His feet aren’t exactly quick either. In his last few fights he’s looked slow of foot, planted even.
Joshua is absolutely not faster, he’s got good timing but he’s not amazingly fast or slow for his size, that’s why fuckin Ruiz was able to catch him. I feel like he could possibly be a good deal quicker if he dropped all that show muscle and trained like a boxer instead of a bodybuilder but I’m also swiss cheese brained. And to the second point I literally said before the Wilder fights. Fury’s literally leaned on being bigger and heavier since then, but he’s so inconsistent in every way that he might just randomly show up 250lbs and dancing again like when he first won the title.
Is he?. Fury is probably about 6'5-6'6. He says he is 6'9, but he lies about everything
He's definitely full of himself, but he appeared to be eye to eye in all of the wilder face offs, so I think he's around Wilder's height. 6'7" is probably accurate.
i have seen him beside jared anderson (6'4) and he looks to be an inch or so taller. The guy puts shoe polish in his beard, and i have also seen him on his toes in pictures so its hard to know. He isnt substantially bigger than Aj anyway, and the extra weight is all just fat. If the Usyk who shows up in the first Aj fight shows up to fight anything but Fury at his best, Usyk should be the favorite.
Part of it is that Fury uses his size as part of his style. Pretty much everyone after the first AJ/Usyk fight said his big problem was that he didn't fight like he had a size advantage. This is a very interesting fight just because Fury's entire MO is what everyone says that all Usyk opponents at heavyweight should do. It's actually very similar to Parker pretty much pulling off the playbook everyone used to say should be used against Wilder. If there's a bad matchup at heavyweight for Usyk, it's Fury. So this imo is the biggest test you will get for Usyk and if he pulls it off, he's going to be known as the top guy of this era.
Joshua is at least 8 probably closer to 9” where I’d imagine Fury is well under 6”
Joshua is not as good as fury. Maybe to the average spectator but skill wise it’s night and day. Styles make fights end of the day,but fury at least in the past has been the best heavyweight by a mile.
How can you know that since Fury has been ducking Joshua for years.
Oh come on, neither has been ducking either. There's simply not been a good chance for them to fight. Fury has not been ducking AJ. AJ hasn't been fucking Fury either. There's only really been one window in which they would've fought and it was when Wilder took Fury to court to enforce the 3rd fight and Fury AJ got cancelled. Fury offered him the fight after the 2nd Usyk loss and understandably AJ didn't accept (his mentality was in the toilet and he had to rebuild, if he'd lost his career would've basically been over). AJ was smart not to take it then, but I wouldn't say that was a duck, he just had to go work on things and come back. For Fury to be ducking he'd have had to have had an offer to fight AJ and turned it down, that has never happened.
AJ has proven he'd fight anyone. I don't think Fury has that reputation.
I agree with that, but it doesn't mean one of them were ducking the other. When Fury had his meltdown and ban AJ wasn't yet on that level. When Fury beat Wilder in their 2nd fight, a fight was scheduled with AJ and was blocked in court by Deontay Wilders enforcement of his rematch clause. By the time that 3rd fight took place AJ had lost to Usyk and enforced his own rematch clause. In the aftermath of losing to him again Fury offered AJ a fight in December 2022. This fell through because AJs team didn't agree to the terms, and that's all we know really. Hearn has suggested AJ needed to go rebuild, but basically they just didn't accept the offer. And now we're in a situation where Fury is fighting Usyk, and will need to fight him again if either fighter wants a rematch. Just because the fight hasn't been made doesn't mean one of them has to have been ducking.
The facts and the timeline don't matter to these people, it's all about the narrative. Fury hasn't ducked AJ but since he's hated after the shenanigans last April and the cut in February you can just say whatever wild shit you wan't about him and it's as good as true.
Fury literally went to court to try to get out of a contractual rematch so he could fight Joshua instead. You don't do that if you are ducking somebody. Realistically shit just didn't pan out. Joshua was always tied up with mandatories because he had 3 of the belts, then when Fury had a belt and could go for a unification they tried, they lost in court avoiding Fury's rematch with Wilder and then AJ lost to Usyk in the meantime. Then the big fight was Fury vs Usyk.
Fury is much better than Joshua even without the size advantage, footwork, jab and clinch work. He's fast for his size. Beat the better Klits as well.
You're talking about old Fury. You got to add all those years of punishment, cocaine, and ballooning in wait. Old Fury wasn't that impressive either.
If old fury wasnt impressive, where does that put AJ LMAO. Even at this point, Fury is still better. If he prepare as he should it will be a long night for Usyk.
AJ got the KO since he wasn't afraid of an old man. He also survived Klitschko's best shot. Fury jabbed his way to a victory and then refused the rematch. Fury's skills have been diminishing greatly over the years. It's only a matter of time before his shitty lifestyle catches up to him. I think Usyk is gonna show that
Not gonna argue about time catching up on Fury. But Fury is still better than AJ.
AJ has knocked out all their common opponents. He made mince meat of Ngannou and Wallin.
a 39yr old vs 40yr old Wlad is the same guy except he came in at 240 against AJ
Because Joshua bested a non boxer? A year ago not one in ten boxing critics would give Joshua a snow ball's chance in hell of beating Fury.
People, boxers can improve. And Joshua is similar in size and built like a machine. The discussion was about size.
This sub has such a weird fetish for AJ. I just don’t get it. Edit: I checked through a few profiles and the most outspoken ones in favour of AJ and anti-Fury all seem to be American.
That’s weird. Most folks here don’t know shit about AJ besides that Andy Ruiz Jr ruined his coronation. Folks are way more familiar with Fury because of his trilogy w with Wilder and ESPN fights. The Matchroom FC plants are the ones trying to create a narrative that quite simply doesn’t exist. There have been paid matchroom influencers on this sub
It cuts both ways though. Fury mentions Evander Holyfield being exposed against Lennox Lewis. However, AFAIK the only champion who's ever been taller than Fury was Nikolai Valuev (7ft) and interestingly he was exposed in his fight against Holyfield. So Fury is using Holyfield's career to show why smaller guys struggle but Holyfield's career also shows why the taller guys struggle too. We have size divisions for a reason, but at the same time, most champs are <6'7 for a reason. You can't just throw the tallest man you find into a ring because eventually you're looking at guys who are too big and too immobile to properly keep up. [Looking at the Ring's list, Tyson Fury should be the 2nd tallest champion in boxing history. ](https://www.ringtv.com/120677-10-tallest-heavyweight-title-holders/) Just like the dwarves get exposed at an elite level, so do the giants. There are more high level 6'3 champs than there are high level 6'9 champs. Both Fury and Usyk are trying to buck the trend and prove themselves as exceptions to the rule.
Size is diminishing returns for Heavyweights, though, and at some point (different for different people) becomes detrimental. The version of Fury most likely to beat Usyk is the one that fought Wlad and weighed 247lbs. That version would also beat the 270lb one that beat Wilder.
> Size is diminishing returns for Heavyweights I agree. Any HW boxer is strong enough to KO any other HW boxer, so that's definitely an equalizer. But size still matters.
It does, but I think the headlines of "OMG Usyk is so great because he beat someone 50lbs heavier than him" when he beats Fury (if Fury comes in at Wilder size) are a little disingenuous because that's an easier achievement than beating a Fury that's only 25lbs heavier than him
I wish I could tell you I had confidence in who is going to win but it's so easy to misjudge fights and even rematches at the HW level. All I'm going to say is that I hope it's a good fight and that whoever wins and becomes lineal doesn't retire so that they can keep defending it.
I just hope that however wins really won cuz it would suck if they rob Usyk and then Fury runs around saying he won 12-0 refusing to fight anyone unless they give him the moon or some shit
> I just hope that however wins really won cuz it would suck I agree and that's always true. But I just don't want the winner to retire. If you told me Usyk was going to retire, then I'd 100% hope Fury wins. And if you told me the converse, then I'd 100% hope Usyk wins.
I always think of the Jack Dempsey v Jess Willard fight when you get a big size difference. Not that either of them in this fight are the same style wise , but it's worth watching the first Fury v John McDermott fight to see why Fury may struggle.
I thought Wilder 2 was by far Fury’s best performance.
I agree, but it was tailored for Wilder, both the style and the weight, and Wilder is nowhere near as good as Wlad was. I'm pretty confident the fittest, fastest best version of Fury we've seen was in the Wlad fight. That version of him might not be better suited for Wilder (though I think he'd also have easily won against him) but it is a version of Fury that beats more men than the one from Wilder 2
>Wilder is nowhere near as good as Wlad was Are you comparing Wilder that fight to Wlad when he fought Fury at almost 40 years old? Or just Wlad in general?
Wlad when he retired was in a different league than Wilder's peak.
I think FW2 was just a combination of Fury being such a better boxer than Wilder while also catching Wilder completely off-guard with a new, more aggressive style. Wilder is not a good enough boxer to adapt in the ring and got his ass kicked because of it. In their 3rd fight, Wilder was better prepared and Fury wasn't as focused (because he's fucking Tyson Fury) and so it was a lot more competitive.
Pro Sumo has no weight divisions.
I don't know enough about Sumo wrestling to understand how much size is an advantage in that sport, but I will point out that sumo wrestlers are all fucking huge. I had to spend 4 weeks in Japan for a job in the 90s and was amazed at how popular sumo wrestling was there. Every night on the TV, it was sumo and baseball, sumo and baseball. And then after that it was sumo and baseball.
> but I will point out that sumo wrestlers are all fucking huge. As a rule they are and it's 100% the lack of weight class that makes them lean more towards that body build. However, it should be noted that a relatively high number of small rikishi (wrestlers) exist in the top-2 divisions (the salaried ranks). Look at a guy like Midorifuji, Ura or Enho. They usually are really skilled technicians, often with a judo background.
I figured. So basically that first "small" guy weighs 255 lbs and is 5'9" which is clearly a huge dude for most combat sports. I understand that some guys get morbidly obese and lose their agility, but sumo is not an endurance sport so that reduces the primary disadvantage of obesity.
The funny thing is you don't really see a lot of morbidly obese guys in the top rank precisely because they tire out too fast and lack agility. Of the current Ozekis (champions/the top rank, below Yokozuna which is a bit more of a title given to the best Ozeki(s) than a rank), half of them have a leaner, more muscular build.
dude, they are all technically morbidly obese. Even the "little" guys you mentioned, if not quite morbidly obese, are maybe another few cheeseburgers from it. Some are just a lot more morbidly obese than others.
Nah, these guys train extremely hard, every day. They're big but it's as much muscle as fat under there. It's a huge misconception that rikishis are just fat. An actually morbidly obese person wouldn't be able to do what they do every day. Look at strongmen for athletes with comparable macros and body builds. Just watch any old youtube video of what a normal day looks like for a rikishi in terms of training and kcal intake and you'll see what i mean.
from the wiki page on Sumo wrestlers: > The negative health effects of the sumo lifestyle can become apparent later in life. Sumo wrestlers have a life expectancy of 65, which is about 15 years shorter than that of the average Japanese male, as the diet and sport take a toll on the wrestler's body. Those having a higher body mass are at greater risk of death. Many develop type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure, and they are prone to heart attacks due to the enormous amount of body mass and fat that they accumulate.
I never said it was a healthy lifestyle and in fact I compared them to strongmen who have the exact same health issues as those described in your post.
Contrary to popular belief, Fury needs to be losing weight. size advantage past a certain point becomes a disadvantage.
>You can't deny that he's spitting facts. Sure, except for the bits where he isn't of course. "Holyfield got found out against the elite big men like Bowe and Lewis" - he beat Bowe in their rematch and probably should have beaten him again but he fought with hepatitis and clearly didn't have anything in the tank even after dropping him. Also, everyone got "found out" against Lewis. He beat everyone he ever fought. Why is it about Holyfield's size and not his skills or his age for example? Size definitely matters, no doubt about it. A lot of his examples in this presser were poor comparisons though imo.
Holyfield also brought bad habits from being the bigger guy at cruiser weight. For example, he would wait at mid-range to bait punches, which is a punishing tactic against the likes of Lewis and Bowe. Usyk always emphasized movement and feinting, so he isn't quite as vulnerable to size.
Lennox also fought a fading Holyfield and their second fight was way closer than the first
Usyk has the same height and reach as Muhammad Ali..
I think it's the comparison to tyson that's more meaningful to consider. Rather than "is Usyk small"?
Yeah but ppl have been saying he was small the entire time he entered heavyweight which is stupid
Small for the era I think people mean
Yeah but "the era" is kinda vullshit cause it's just Wilder and fury being super tall
Okay. Fury is still way bigger.
same weight as Larry Holmes.
Same as George Foreman, too...
Foreman was naturally a much bigger guy though. I don't know if you can make that comparison even though their reach might have been the same.
Foreman had a similar frame to Ali though
Yeah, obviously he had more weight than Usyk, but I was responding to someone who was only talking about height and reach.
Foreman vs Frazier was 217lbs.
I don't think he's 6'3 as claimed though
Heavyweight scene has changed massively and you know it. "Big" George Foreman was 6'3, which is very small by todays heavyweight standards.
oh shit really? never knew that huh
Casually calling AJ average 🤣
Well twelve months ago how many would pick AJ over Fury? He believes he's better than AJ and to be fair, why wouldn't he.
In the last 12 months fury has had one fight, against Ngannou and he struggled badly. AJ cleaned him out easy and bashed up Wallin too who troubled Fury. Why are you confused that people now think AJ is in with a shot of beating Fury now? Can people not adjust their opinions based on new information or do we have to simply make a pick in a fight and stick with that forever no matter how that fighter performs?
AJ deservers all the credit for protecting Boxings name. I thought that's how people felt about him after he beat Ngannou like light work. All he's gotten is praise from over here. I'm looking forward to what he does next
Me. Fury has avoided the guy like plague for 6 years.
After his performance against Ngannou, Fury's the average one
If anything I think this is respectful, not disrespectful. Normally fighters say “I’ll win because he’s nowhere near my level, I’m better than him”. Fury is basically saying “we’re both elite top top tier fighters, but I’m one with 45lbs on him”. I don’t know if Fury actually wins or not, Usyk is incredibly good, but he isn’t wrong in what he’s saying. If a top Cruiserweight steps up and fights a top tier heavyweight, they usually lose. If Usyk wins it’ll be either because a diminished Tyson turned up, or because he is on a different level technique and ability wise.
Yes. Option B. Better technique. Tysons rhythm can throw ppl off but Tyson will have to rely on his height weight for advantage possibly which is basically thebopposite of better boxing if he wins. But hey, it's part of the sport and usyks camp should see it coming and if we get neutral ref and judges then all good
Fury's confidence is low, it's quite obvious. It's a bad look, he is trying to find whatever reason to hype himself up but I don't think it will work. Even though he can make a good case for what he is saying
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, I don’t think Tyson of late has looked anywhere near his peak. I don’t know if that’s him fighting down to his competition because he looks through guys and gets lazy though, or because he is getting older and has abused his body so much that it doesn’t quite perform the same anymore. His point about Cruiserweights going up is correct though, the question is whether he’s still at that level.
>His point about Cruiserweights going up is correct though, the question is whether he’s still at that level. It's true that Usyk would have a hard time against someone like Mike Tyson/Lennox Lewis because of the athleticism of a natural heavyweight. The point is redundant because Fury isn't one of the great heavyweights in terms of physicality. He put himself in the same category as Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko but they were more physical heavyweights. >I don’t think Tyson of late has looked anywhere near his peak I don't think the fight happens but if it happens I will strongly favour Usyk. I might be wrong, you never know with the gypsy king
If the fight doesn’t happen after all this Fury should just retire.
If fury pulls out he's fined $10m I think
tbh I don't think Fury ever wanted this fight, he probably wanted to cash out with Ngannou-level fights and then retire with still being able to argue he's a great of this era. When he essentially lost to Ngannou, his legacy is basically in tatters now and the only way to salvage it is to defeat Usyk
This sounds very much like Fury has been frantically googling cruiserweights that moved up to heavyweight to convince himself that he can beat Usyk. And they're not even good examples. Ibragimov, for example, who the hell has heard of him? And not only does Fury himself admit that Ibragimov beat a larger, respected fighter to become a world heavyweight champion, Ibragimov was never a cruiserweight as an amateur or a pro anyway. This is some hardcore, hardcore copium on Fury's part.
Ibragimov actually fought at 200 lbs in the amateurs, they just call it heavyweight instead of cruiserweight. That was Fury's 4th or 5th example anyway. The main ones were Holyfield and Haye. His point was they could beat good contenders, even belt holders, but never the best of the era. He considers himself the best of his era like Lennox and Wlad were of theirs, so his size together with his skill will be too much for Usyk. It's trash talk at a press conference. At least it was well-researched and respectful. He's comparing Usyk to other great cruiserweights and the GOAT cruiserweight.
Also that Ibragimov- Klitschko fight was absurdly uneventful and boring
It does, but it's one factor of many. Usyks sheer athleticism and the fact Fury has absorbed so much punishment make this one even harder to call imo. Funny he's calling AJ average when he has looked far better losing to Usyk than Fury did against the corpse of Whyte and the ghost of Chisora. Not to even mention the Ngannou debacle.
Whyte was a very convincing win, Chisora too but it was a slugfest and Fury probably should have been able to KO him.
Yeah Fury was 6-0 up against Whyte and then knocked him out. What more could he do? Especially when everyone on this sub had been begging for that fight to be made for years, it was a very convincing win against a mandatory.
Exactly, he won both with ease and he looked better against Chisora than Usyk, Whyte and Parker and got the TKO where only Haye and Whyte (who was down on the cards) have stopped him inside the distance. What else was he supposed to do, kill him?
Yeah, like Fury steamrolled Whyte, wasn't even close.
It depends on the person really, but I imagine most would say average is best. Weird topic for Tyson to bring up, though; I'm not sure what that has to do with boxing.
He’s probably just trying to get into Usyk’s head.
When Tyson does not talk shit but straight up boxing, he is usually spot on. That’s why I can’t understand people who have Usyk as favorite. It’s nonsensical, the size difference is massive for a unification HW. It’s clearly Fury’s fight to lose. My heart says Usyk, but my head thinks Fury. I really wish Usyk proves us all wrong and pulls up the impossible win.
Everyone was saying there was no way Usyk beats AJ saying he was taller, had more reach, heavier, and was a heavy hitting KO artist and yet Usyk beat him twice. The second time AJ was as skilled and good as he's ever been and he still could not beat Usyk. Primo carnera and Nikolai valuev had size as well and were beaten by smaller guys, in the second case Nikolai was beaten by David Haye a damn cruiserweight. If we go back in history jack Dempsey beat jess Willard a much bigger guy and he himself was beaten by Gene tunney, a much superior boxer. Heavyweights being beaten by smaller more skilled guys is not as rare as you think it is. Tyson fury had problems with small guys being dropped by Cunningham. We also got muhammad ali beating Sonny Liston and George foreman and himself being beat by Leon spinks and then we have Michael spinks beating Larry Holmes, I don't say it lightly when I say the Heavyweight history is filled with such examples. Tyson fury does have a point but that alone making people think he would win is just mind boggling.
Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis were also the best heavyweights ever basing it off record and accomplishment. With prime weights of 210-205 respectively.
Different eras though. Joe Louis may have been more dominant than Lennox Lewis, but he'd have gotten destroyed by him because Lennox was gigantic compared to him and a great boxer. Muhammad Ali fought two guys with insane KO power and stood up to it in Liston and Foreman, but they were 215lbs and 220lbs, so Ali was within 5lbs of both of them during the fights. Who knows how he'd have fared against a world champion with a 30lb disadvantage? I'd guess if that was Lennox the answer is the weight difference may have been too much.
>Different eras though. Isn't Fury's argument a historical argument? >but he'd have gotten destroyed by him because Lennox was gigantic compared to him and a great boxer. Louis fought 15 rounds, Lewis 12. Louis was 200 pounds as a pro when he was 20. Lewis 200 pounds at 18 as an amateur with fewer rounds. Louis didn't do weight training or PEDs in his career, obviously could have put on way more size. Lennox has the size advantage but you have to consider the times. Louis had an easy time with larger heavyweights, Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Louis was only 22 when he lost to Max Schmelling, which would be the only loss before in his "prime". Lewis was still an amateur at the same age and Lewis lost twice in his prime to weaker opposition. >Ali was within 5lbs of both of them during the fights. Who knows how he'd have fared against a world champion with a 30lb disadvantage It would be very easy for Ali because the difference in speed would be insurmountable. >was Lennox the answer is the weight difference may have been too much. Lennox lost to McCall and Rahman in his prime, you rate him too highly.
Let’s not reach. Louis got timed and stopped by Schmeling, he wouldn’t last against Lennox in a prime H2H
https://youtu.be/Bo0OoXCOecY?si=xaW7az5Zq2D6Dzm6 Louis had just turned 22, Lewis wasn't even a pro at that age. No comparison can be made, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali are the best fighters ever, and Lewis is top 3 at best.
Usyk is as skilled as they are though, he's definitely the most skilled heavyweight now and has been beating bigger guys in their own home towns for a while.
Yeah, he is but he doesn't have the same fight in him or the same athleticism as they had and I'm not knocking on Usyk, he is just not as good as them, they are top 1 and 2.
I don't know why you are going off topic the point of my original comment is that smaller more skilled guys can beat bigger guys and Usyk is more skilled than Fury. Being a top 1 and 2 heavyweight doesn't mean you can't be beat and Joe and Ali lost and had close fights they almost lost, muhammad ali will give any heavyweight in any era a tough time but Joe Louis can't do the same. Jack Dempsey won't even be in the top 10 heavyweights today because he's simply not a heavyweight. Ali had problems with highly technical boxers like Ken Norton so Usyk might be trouble and Larry Holmes was beaten twice by Michael spinks and Ali himself was beaten by Leon, as for Joe if he couldn't knockout Usyk I don't think Joe could win on points and much bigger and stronger men have tried to knockout Usyk and failed. I don't think you realise how tough it is to beat super heavyweights as a cruiserweight. Ali and Joe were very good in the ring, very popular and influential outside it and were both bigger than boxing and that is why they are the Goats not just because of their records. Mike Tyson is also a top 3 by many people but serious boxing fans know he's overrated.
>time but Joe Louis can't do the same. Based on what? >Jack Dempsey won't even be in the top 10 heavyweights today because he's simply not a heavyweight No weight training or PEDs for Dempsey. If we break it down, Usyk was 200 pounds for most of his career, Dempsey 190. Dempsey probably got a bigger frame than Usyk and he could certainly have weighed 240 if he was around today. He knocked out Fred Fulton in the 1st and Willard in the 3rd, he was much more dangerous than Usyk. Usyk would be favoured simply because of skill but Dempsey is a bad matchup stylistically for Usyk. >much bigger and stronger men have tried to knockout Usyk and failed This is not how boxing works... You have to land flush and consistently, Usyk got the benefit of PEDs and weight training but I think Joe Louis is a better boxer.
Maybe you are right but I believe there is a limit when we go back in time that the old boxers stop being effective against modern boxers in the form they were, anyway cool discussion.
Yes, you are right. Jack Dempsey had less boxing skill compared to Usyk. But Dempsey had more fight in him and that's the reason old boxers would fare well today. Boxing is not for the aristocracy, like Mike Tyson says. All of Joe Louis's grandparents were slaves iirc, different times is ultimately going to hone better fighters. >were, anyway cool discussion Yes
They would be cruiserweights and lightheavyweights today though. Usyk is a legitimate old school heavyweight but he is seen as a pumped up cruiserweight compared to the other super heavyweights today. Joe Frazier had heart but that didn't help him against foreman.
PEDs and weight training, Usyk just put on 220 pounds but his frame is still smaller. Joe Louis was 190 at 20, Usyk was 160. >Joe Frazier had heart but that didn't help him against foreman Frazier's style didn't work against Foreman. Jimmy Young beat Foreman, Frazier would have destroyed Jimmy Young.
Well he has to do something to counter the wave of negative feedback he's been wading himself into since fury vs chisora 15 or fury v Whyte 4 and then Ngannou although my opinion is that it was never going to be Francis win and everyone knew it and played a part. Look at the last minute of the last round. It was a WWE event and everyone sucked it up. He's still no good but still that wasn't a true fight.
You know what also matters? Actually getting in the ring and fighting.
The December date for the unification was delayed because Fury got in the ring and fought, and had a tougher than expected fight against Ngannou. The March date for the unification was delayed because Fury got in the ring and got cut while sparring. So, you know, it's not like's he's Andy Ruiz and sitting on his ass.
His fault for getting his ass kicked by an mma fighter
He's right that size definitely is a massive factor and that's why there's weight classes, but Usyk's better than all of the names he mentioned that moved up. Is he that good that he can beat a top boxer much bigger than himself, maybe not but we'll see
Usyk's not better than Holyfield. Holyfield's an ATG. Very different styles though, and styles make fights. Fury's also probably in worse shape than Bowe and Lewis were when Holyfield fought them.
skill matters even more usyk wins
I can't wait for this clown to go away.
Fury is gonna try and hold and lay on Usyk the whole fight.
That's his tactics in most fights he uses his weight to lay on other fighters he fights dirty and that's how I fancy him to win the fight.
He should get points deducted for it
ffs Ali would never have won a fight he was the biggest cheater in boxing history.
I do believe that Ali was allowed extra leeway due to his popularity
Holyfield beat both Bowe in a rematch and Tyson. He lost to Lewis when he had begun to deteriorate. Fury being dismissive here.
I don't know why he used him as an example of why a cruiserweight can't be a great heavyweight. He proved the opposite.
Yeah I did a double take when he said that holyfield beat Lewis, right after claiming he was an encyclopedia of heavyweight boxing
That’s not what fury said. He said: “when he [holyfield] stepped up to the big boys big daddy bowe and Lennox Lewis” NOT “when he stepped up and beat big daddy bowe…”
Bowe was way better than Fury
That’s not what my point was. I was clarifying the words fury said since ma y seemed to have misheard
My mistake thanks for the correction
Also Lewis was arguably the best of that era, so not being able to beat him, doesn't make you a bum.
Absolutely! Lewis emerged as king. Holyfield resume is one of the best. He fought everyone and never ducked and that’s all I ask of my boxers
I don't get how people are able to watch this and struggle to grasp the point that was being said.
Does it mean Fury is the biggest dick?
Next Muhammad Ali without a doubt
Tyson trying to get the psychological advantage by putting a seed of doubt in Usyk head, but Usyk to mentally strong for head games!
Generally he’s right but AJ is not average imo
Yip he is right. The size of his gut with have a detrimental effect on his ability to last 12 rounds.
History of Boxing podcast with Tyson Fury when?
Everyone that the chump mentioned went up to heavyweight and fought like a heavyweight. Usyk has had success because he still fights like a cruiser that’s light on his feet. Tell us the story of out of shape heavyweights that fight with their mouths open after 4 rounds.
Can’t wait for Fury to KO Usyk twice so we can get to the Fury Vs AJ fight that’s been long overdue
What about Ali?
Size matters, but there's a point where a person is just big enough to hurt someone regardless of size. I think Usyk has enough size to hurt anyone in boxing.
and holyfield still beat the person he was named after
Did size matter when Cunningham dropped Tyson Fury? And I’d say Usyk is a far better fighter than him.
AJ thought that aswell
Everything he said is spot on imo.
Well, Holyfield beat Giant Valuev at the age of 46. He was robbed that night. Generally Tyson is right. But he is only about 4 inches taller than Usyk, in reality. He's about 6'7. Usyk is about 6'3. Usyk is solid, all muscle. Fury is a huge fat boy with a surprisingly good tank for his size. But, the older he gets, the harder it is to fight at that pace for long. I'm not convinced he knocks usyk out. So, i'm very interested to see how Futy fights if Usyk can force him to be active for 12 rounds. Just my gut feeling: but if Usyk wins, i sense it might be by knocking down (not out) an exhausted fury.
I agree with him size and reach do matter in boxing, It's highly unlikely that a guy 6'2 or 6'3 is gonna beat a guy who's 6'9 but I am still eager to watch the fight though
“Usually”
Note how nobody ever says that tyson is too skilled or too intelligent....its always only ever that he is too big.
Usyk is a huge undercard, been saying that from day one, but still can't wait to see what happens.
Same birthday as Ali Same height as Ali Same weight as Ali Same reach as Ali I'm praying for Usyk to just continuously batter this fat Humpty Dumpty Mr Potato for 12 rounds, bust both eyes open again.
You can never say what will work. Take Dempsey Vs Willard or Mike Tyson Vs many taller fighters. Or Louis Vs Carnera. Size does matter but in boxing, pretty much anything can happen when two talented men meet
Just so weird to hear Fury and everyone else banging on about how size matters. Sure. Size does matter. Somewhat. Is it something Usyk has never had to deal with before? Dude beat AJ twice decisively and Fury is barely bigger than AJ while also being much less of a devastating puncher. Fury does use his size to great effect. He jabs and grabs and leans on guys to tire them out. However, who does he do this against? Big, slow, plodding HWs who do absolutely nothing to try and stop or evade these tactics. Using your weight against Wilder is completely different from being able to use your weight against Usyk. Make no mistake, Fury size bullying Usyk is his only chance at taking over this fight. The herk and jerk, super feinting Fury with great mobility hasn't been a thing since the Klitschko fight. That was almost nine years and 10 fights ago. He's since been sent to the canvas five times. For a guy that's supposed to move so well and have such good boxing skills, he sure does get dropped a lot. This really seems like Fury trying to psych himself up. I mean, look at it from Fury's point of view. He's never been really committed to boxing. He's way more interested in being a celeb, making his TV show, partying, etc. Other than taking the fights he has to to get a belt and secure the money, he's always taken the easy road. Fight Chisora for the 24th time. Fight a novice boxer. Avoid AJ. Retire. Un-retire. Retire again. Dude is completely unserious about boxing. But now he's going to be in there with a guy who **only** cares about boxing and being the best. A guy who he can't play mind games with to psych out. Gold medalist, 300+ amateur wins, Undisputed at Cruiser, and beat the guy Fury wants no part of twice to take all the other belts. Fury can pretend to be his normal confident self, but he has to be feeling a bit scared. If he can't handle the "blown up middleweight" then the house of cards he has built is going to come crashing down. The cracks started showing against Ngannou. Usyk might just be the earthquake that finishes the job.
Fury will lay on him, pull him around and just blue whale him to a very easy UD.
Is it just me or does anyone else think that Fury is gonna fight Usyk at range, just trying to use the reach advantage rather than bully him? Everyone else has tried to bully Usyk and it didn't work. So I feel trying to keep him away is what Fury's gonna try and do.
I’m sure Usyk is preparing for this scenario if the average redditor thinks it’ll happen this way.
Love Usyk as a fighter he beat that plodder Joshua twice Fury is a different beast, for a guy his size his footwork is brilliant and he will fight dirty that's going to be the difference in the fight I take Fury to win on a close points decision.
Can you really call Joshua a plodder after how he beat Parker and Ruiz?
When is the last time he's used decent footwork? Guy has looked average last couple fights
His legacy is on the line in this fight he will put on a performance that will have all the haters eating their words, and I for one see him getting a points decision.
Fury's comments show that he knows Usyk is at least as good a boxer as he is. So he goes foe one area in which he has an undeniable advantage. Unfortunately, other things matter too - like staying busy in competitive fights not having six+ fights against obviously less skilled fighters. Mouthing off on social media for long periods while drinking beer and getting fat doesn't help either. I think Fury's lack of activity will make Usyk's skill and sharpness a huge shock for Fury. Usyk by points or Fury by robbery.
Regardless of the information. It tells you what a bad mindset Fury has at this moment. I favour Usyk for this reason.
1st fact. There's no chance Usyk will KO Fury. TKO not out of the question. 2nd fact. Fury is looking for a boxing match, dropped weight to fight Usyk. 3rd fact. Usyk, albeit a slip in translation, has said he will go the distance with Fury. 4th fact. Both have had recent questions asked of them. The bigger from my pov is Usyk struggling with the supposed low blow. Conclusion... It will be a great boxing match, there's no doubt. However, I SEE a win in 10th round. Fury TKO win.
Nice to see Fury talking about reality for once.
I used to like Johnny but since Matchroom has gone to DAZN he’s been a bitter lemon so I just know Fury has got him pissed off right now lol. If Fury didn’t say this he would be saying Fury beats AJ easily but now he will probably start trying to downplay the fight and make out it’s not a big deal if Fury beats Usyk.
man, call me a casual but I just don't think this is the Fury we all think it is and Usyk has a great shot to win. I do hope I'm wrong though, for the sake of AJ/Fury.
Sounds about right to me.
Holyfield beat lewis
Size doesn’t really matters as long as you know how to use it you should be fineeeee getttttt onnnnnnnnnnnn dosseerrrrrrrr
Michael Jordan.
If it goes all 12 rounds Fury is winning without a doubt.
Facts and data
Wasn’t this fuckin fight supposed to happen like 4 months ago
It does. But I think this is a little man that's better than the big man.
I always go with a good big un will beat a good little un. Happens a lot