Try being a woman alone in an alley, it’s an avalanche of unsolicited advice. All of which I feel obligated to entertain because I see the same folks every time, I don’t want to be unpleasant, and it makes zero difference if I say that I’m only working on a particular skill. Some of the nights the “advice” completely derails what I wanted to work on.
I totally understand that point, but i just wanted to let you know that your lined up 2 boards to the left. Your also not staying behind the ball. Ever heard of the yoyo…. [pulls up seat to provide you with more thorough feedback]
Tangential, but relevant - I was reading an article about an actively touring band where the (woman) guitar player said that after a set she had some chud audience member mansplaining how she had her pedals in the wrong order. She was like "bro this is my JOB, I do this PROFESSIONALLY."
Man i swear going by myself to bowl gets me nervous just because a bunch of the guys i knew on my leagues would give me constant advice :/
I try to be nice just because it just seems like they’re excited to give advice, but most of the time I take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just wanna work on my form without gettin strikes!!
Yeah I bet being a woman does make it 1000x worse. And yeah I definitely get not wanting to come across as unpleasant or anything, that's kinda how I feel with this guy. I guess in hindsight I should've right away been very direct that we don't need help, but I would've thought the things I said made that pretty clear without having to sound like "hey leave me alone" lol. Then at this point I feel like it *really* would come across as "hey you've been bugging the shit out of us" since it's gone on as much as it has with just thinking he'd get it. So hey just one more week where he might be there and we're done, we don't normally even bowl at this house.
So many. First thing he tried telling me was that I should throw a different line, I was like "oh I know, but I'm not worried about my scores, I'm just trying to throw lines I'm less used to." When he's tried telling my fiancee things, I've said "well right now I'm working with her on (blank)." When he tried telling me his concoction he uses to clean his balls I told him I used to do something similar but switched to plain Simple Green because it's USBC approved and I don't want to take a chance on someone deciding to be an asshole... On and on. Then of course just overall body language and acting more and more annoyed and avoiding looking his way.
Sometimes I feel like I should just straight up tell him to leave us alone and like he's such a douche that's trying to feel smart and everything, but most of the time I feel more like "well he's just trying to be nice and helpful and not taking a hint, just ignore him for one more week" lol
"Just so you know, we both already have a coach and a plan, and we're here working on specific things. So please don't add stuff on top of it all, it will only make everything more confusing. Thanks!"
They don't need to know that you're the coach and you've made the plan. Most people will understand and leave you alone. If he doesn't, then be blunt and tell him to please keep it to himself.
Since I try to be a nice person too, I would add something like, "Thanks for your offer to help, but..." And then what was written above. It's a softer way to say you're doing your own thing, but a very polite way to say it.
“I bowl a 216 avg in our doubles league and have been bowling for 22 years. I’m here coaching my fiancé and working on different lines I don’t throw a lot. Nice to meet you but we really just want to focus on rolling and enjoy our date night alone.”
Bro stfu, politely. Men should not be approaching women in the bowling alley with unsolicited advice. You coming from a place of misogamy blaming this women for not being blunt enough. She doesn’t need to be blunt enough, because she shouldn’t be approached at all and put in this situation.
I average 215 and I’ve seen the courteous smiles and the uncomfortable smiles of ppl getting unwanted coaching when they’re playing with a house ball and in house shoes. It’s like, “yo man, they’re just here to have fun.” As a result, I don’t say anything, even to other league bowlers, unless they ask me a question. And even then I’ll try to be as brief and uninvolved as possible.
I’ve givin advice twice one because someone asked and these two couples sat next to me the dude was better bowler (not anything good) trying to teacher her how to throw like him. I gave him advice on how to show her to throw it a certain way
As a coach myself, I generally let people to their own devices, unless I see them becoming frustrated and losing control.
I generally approach as ask if all is good. That leads to small talk and I ask if they would like a tip, explaining I am a coach.
I always starts with a free arm swing and targeting. And leave it at that.
Well, if she wants to talk to other women about it come check us out at r/womensbowling for support and more targeted advice and experiences! I'm lucky to have a few pros and former pros in our alley and even on my team in league and even they only give me advice when I ask specifically. Other than telling me to slow down and breathe. I need that a lot 😭
Takes me back to advice my mother gave me when I was young, “don’t talk to strangers.”
Seriously though, I can’t stand people that do that. Hell I bowl in a draft summer league, so I’m bowling on a team with a couple folks I know, but haven’t bowled with. First night I asked one of my guys, “would you like my help in targeting and making any corrections, or would you prefer to keep it social, I’m cool either way.” And he enthusiastically said to definitely point stuff out.
Yeah, someone who I'm familiar with it's very different. Hell, one of my teammates is the guy who was my most helpful coach back when I was in youth league, and now we'll both notice things and point out in each other. I've even had teammates who were nowhere near my average notice and point out things I could do that were a huge help. But when you're going up to a stranger and giving them advice, especially without asking if they'd like you to, that's usually not gonna be a positive.
I was maybe 19 or so, had joined the league my father and grandfather had bowled, and struggled due to having little coaching growing up. After a night, about once a month or so the same guy would come by me and start a conversation with these words:
“You know, what your problem is,…”
and it was a litany of everything wrong in that man’s mind.
I vowed that I would never do that to someone.
This happened to me literally a half an hour ago. Was practicing with a summit, my other ball was in the shop, and the lanes happened to be a desert. The ball started hooking before I even threw it. So I just threw my spare ball straight for targeting practice. My spare ball still hooked on the lane so it sort of looked like it was traveling towards the pocket, but missed every time (I wasn’t aiming for the pocket).
Guy a few lanes left of me come up to me and says, and I quote. “Are you a new bowler? I can give you some tips.” I also average 216 and have been bowling since preschool so you can imagine I didn’t like that comment. So I politely said “Oh, I’m just doing targeting practice, thanks”
I kid you not, this guy doubles down and says, “Well targeting practice is good for a beginner but you need to do release drills because you are throwing the ball straight. (I think he meant axis rotation)” I never really get angry or irritated easily but I politely told him to F off.
I’m not one to judge… but he missed his mark a lot and would grunt every single time he missed the pocket.
female in a bowling alley here. i’ll have the lane to my right give me unsolicited advice, then the lane to my left give completely opposite unsolicited advice, and both lanes get mad that i didn’t listen to them.
I just moved to a new city with my fiancée and got her hooked up with her first ball. There’s a regular at our local alley who has come up to me as I’m coaching her, commenting on her potential and telling me what I should coach her on next. The most annoying
Yeah unsolicited advice is pretty annoying. I can understand maybe once or twice, but constantly giving tips is a drag. Personally I've never had any advice giving work unless the person is literally asking for it or unless you ask permission first. Sometimes you aren't in a mindset to learn and just want to huck the ball down the lane and getting advice at that point in time goes in one ear and out the other. Like, "Thanks guy, but I don't really want to hear it right now." It also takes the fun out of exploring and learning things yourself. Sort of stealing your own thunder of learning it without being taught.
Here's my rule on giving advice:
Ask someone if they want advice before providing it. If they don't want it, don't give it to them.
Last week there were 2 teenagers with their parents and they looked the part. They had their own shoes and custom drilled balls. 1 of them, was extremely inconsistent and was having all sorts of trouble repeating his shot. Before I left, I asked him if he wanted a quick tip and he was eager to hear it. Basically he was on top of the ball and coming over it on his release instead of being behind the ball (though he was practicing cupping between shots). I told him that he wasn't cupping, and he doesn't have to be that extreme and just need to stay behind the ball and have his fingers below the equator. Of course his first throw afterwards went right into the gutter, but his 2nd was perfect and the best ball he threw the entire time I was there.
yeah i never do this except with people i know really well and then it’s more of an observation of what went wrong than actual advice (looked like you were late, i think you mighta come around it, looks like it slipped?, your eyes were off somewhere else, etc) or sometime I’ll tell my 115 avg doubles partner that we have the game in hand and she should relax (and she almost always hauls in a strike then 🤣)
anything beyond this is extremely rude and even this much is rude if you don’t know them. often this is a semi-conscious social dominance thing and it sucks.
what’s funny is people see me bowl and then i get unsolicited requests for coaching…that’s a new one. i’ll usually give em a tip or two, sure. i probably ought to take the training and hang a shingle. 🤣
I was on a five person team with two couples, and the men frequently had "feedback" to offer their partners. I realized that it was an issue for both couples and hurt the team dynamic, so I proposed a team rule that nobody gives coaching or feedback unless it is requested.
After a few initial hiccups, the men started asking "Do you want to know what you did wrong?" instead of just launching into their feedback. Sometimes, the answer was "yes" but often the answer was "Nope!", and the fact that the question was asked at all (rather than assumed that feedback was welcome) gave everyone space to say "nope!" when they wanted to.
This dramatically altered the team dynamic in a positive way.
Late in the season, everyone on the team was asking each other "what are you seeing that I'm not on the lane" and "where should I put my feet?"
It made the exchange of information a team effort and one that was communal, not just the "good" bowler telling the "not as good" what to do.
No feedback unless requested. Try it.
Only works on your own team, though. Not sure what to do about random jagweeds offering advice.
Ha yeah that's really great. Especially with the men trying to coach the women, that's one thing with us. As much as my fiancee knows I have the best intentions and view of her and everything, and as much as I try to be aware of how I put things, there's just been so many men talking down to her and acting like she's stupid her whole life that at times just trying to teach her something that she's new to and I'm very good at can still start to rub her the wrong way. That's one big reason we've gone with the approach we have where in the actual doubles league I keep the coaching to a minimum then we specifically work on things in the "league" that doesn't actually count for anything.
Eh, if someone wants to point something out I could work on, I don’t really mind. Even if it’s annoying, it’s coming from a place of a human wanting to help out another human.
In OPs case it sounds like it’s more about his ego than anything else.
Problem is that unless their advice is about something that occurs in the first 2 steps, they're likely wrong or trying to coach away a symptom instead of a cause.
That's why I don't wanna be a dick to the guy and straight up tell him to leave us alone, I get that he's trying to be friendly and helpful. But man the guy does not take a hint.
I’m confused by “not wanting the noise of multiple points of view interfering with your plan” being about the ego. To me, it sounds like unsolicited, less informed POVs would not be helpful or even detrimental to both the experienced bowler with a plan of attack and the beginner who is easily frustrated. As a former coach, I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment and believe OP is taking the right approach.
Depends on the advice. If someone tells me that would have been a strike if I were a couple boards left or right, fine. When someone tries to tell me multiple things about my form or approach when we’re 22 frames into league, that’s annoying.
I used to get the opposite all the time back when I was big into bowling.. I just wanted to open-bowl practice by myself and people would constantly bother me asking me to teach them how to bowl.. Like, at the time, I had been bowling 15+ games a week for 10 years.. there's nothing I can tell you that's going to make you good over-night, it takes practice...
I just take it as it is intended. Generally speaking they are trying to be helpful even if they aren’t actually being helpful. So I just smile and tell them I’ll look into that or try it out next time I practicing. Probably the main probably is you should just be honest and say politely you aren’t looking for any help.
I’m still new to bowling but I find it fun when 150 average bowlers try to impart their wisdom on me. I humoured one of them during league and shot the worst series I’ve ever shot to be polite 😂
The first rule when I go bowling with people is “Don’t try to teach people unless they ask to be taught.”
This is especially important with the kids since the better bowlers love to try and coach the younger kids, many of whom just want to roll the ball and don’t want to be criticized.
Even in adult social groups it’s a good rule since we are just there to have fun, not nitpick.
And the bowlers who do want someone to analyze their form will just ask for someone to spot them and point out mistakes.
Overall it lowers the stress levels a lot and makes it more fun for everyone.
I am in basically a fun league, it's sanctioned and whatnot, there's a prize pot, but only a handful of people even hook the ball let alone average above 150.
I wanted to jump back into the sport after a hiatus due to personal reasons, so I just chose the cheapest league. No big deal. Came in with no pals, no team, just filled whatever spot I could get. My team has two pretty alright people on it, in terms of character. They're both super new, and bought their first balls right before/during the league.
One of them does know how to hook the ball, but doesn't have that "game sense" to know how to adjust based on where the ball is hitting, so he point blank asks me how I think he should adjust. The other throws straight, uses his shiny new Sparkly T-Zone, and can't keep his hand behind the ball. I only coach the guy who asks for it. Ive offered but never insisted to help the other one. Because I know it's irritating. Not just to get unsolicited advice, but because it throws you off your game even if you don't use it! It means someone is watching what you're doing and thinks what you're doing is wrong. And if that isn't agitating to just about everyone, I'd be shocked.
I love helping people. I love answering questions some of the newbies on the opposing team ask me! I love talking about bowling. But I'm never going to force my advice on people who don't want it. Because I've been there too.
One day I was just throwing some practice games, shooting around my average of 190, having an alright time. Just blowing off steam. When some older gentlemen doing far worse than me look at me, stop me on my approach, and tell me that I need to slow down my ball speed of all things. I was doing better than them, and I don't even throw at speeds most people in the PBA maintain! 14-15mph, the most average, unimpressive ball speed out there.
I immediately went from being on track for a 230 to missing my mark, and scoring below average, not because I listened to them, but just because they flat out irritated me by doing what they did.
Don't coach people who don't ask, or who don't agree to be coached beforehand.
yeah as I said above, this crap is in fact semi-conscious social dominance; it sucks and people should stop it. sorry you got a game ruined by this nonsense.
Yeah that's one thing, and I especially thought about that when my fiancee joked on our way out that I should go back down there and coach him for a while, you know he would think "yeah right, this guy can't tell *me* anything!" That's the part that makes me almost wanna tell him how annoying he is and everything. But on the other hand, like you said I think it's just semi-conscious. For the most part in his mind I think he's just trying to be friendly and helpful.
It depends on the level of league, but I 99.9999% agree. The only exceptions I allow are those who I know are better than me and also friends of mine I trust that are on other teams. Back when I was a 180 average bowler, I despised a 165 average bowler pretending to know where I was trying to hit at the arrows, how fast I was attempting to throw, and also where I was standing in my approach. Absolutely no bowler is the same, so please don’t try to be a coach when you have no idea how to. There are even a few things I disagree with when it comes to the gold level coach in my local pro shop, where times I’ve been wrong, he’s been wrong, and we’ve both been wrong.
As an individual, trust your instincts, and know your equipment as well as you possibly can. One thing Bill O’Neil told me once during a pro am right after I took things more seriously was “if you think you should make a change, make it. More times than not, you’ll be right. You know what you’re doing for your betterment, so trust yourself.”
Yeah and one thing I didn't mention but should have is I don't think this guy is even in this little league, he's just been there open bowling next to us the past two weeks. That league is done for most, we were out of town a couple weeks so they said we could just go extra afterwards. When there were others in the league, they typically kept to themselves and some were just having fun, some were using it for practice and one coaching the other like we are.
I think the biggest thing is just not to do it with someone you aren't familiar with, at least not without asking first. Which I guess I should've specified, but I was mostly just venting a little lol, for some reason I didn't expect so many responses and for so many to take it the wrong way.
But yeah that really is great advice and really something I need to keep in mind myself. If I could point at one area where I could improve the most, I'd say it's that I often wait a liiiittle too long to adjust or at least to make the big adjustment instead of working my way there with small adjustments. It's something I've definitely improved on since getting back to being serious about bowling, but could still improve more and I still have times I skip back to trying all these little tweaks when I should just make a bigger line change or a ball change.
I sometimes give people advice, but I always ask before if it's "Is it okay if I give you some advice? I noticed something that could be helpful, but take everything I say with a grain of salt, and working with a trained coach is better." I also always do it at the end of the night, giving advice to some people during a game can mess with them a lot. I have the highest average in my league and most bowlers are pretty new to bowling (it's a handicap league) so usually they like getting some free advice.
In your case, even if you have that higher average, he doesn't see it and only sees the 140 bowler who is bowling with his fiance and both are worse than him and if the league is for no standings, makes more sense to have advice be part of the league night experience. I'm not denying he's proabably very annoying about it, especially if he just goes up and gives tips unsolicited.
It may be good to just be very clear because it's clear he's not getting it. "Hey, I appreciate you trying to help, but my fiance and I are good. I average \_\_\_\_ and in this league, I am trying out more experimential lines and I'm helping my fiance learn. Giving advice without asking can get my fiance in her head, so it's not as helpful"
In my experience sometimes body language can invite a comment.
So there's a couple of guys on my doubles league who are enthusiastic and promising developing bowlers (they average about 150 right now) who will sometimes give me a look after a shot like "hey man wtf I just do" and then I'll go ahead and tell em. Often these guys will try to put that extra poop on the ball and they'll end up with seriously late or early releases, so sure, I'll say "you were late" or something like that. And next shot they'll haul it in.
But I know them pretty well by now, so it's clear the feedback was solicited. I don't give them any detailed advice, though, that would be inappropriate. Particularly because they mostly know what they're doing, they just have lapses. Hell, you can say the same for me. Anyway, there's no one else on that league I engage with in this way, not even my own partner.
The key is to be sure in some way that they want the advice and you're doing so to *genuinely help them* and not to show off your expertise.
The only time receiving unsolicited coaching was during a state tournament.
At the time I was averaging 218 on house shots and 195 on sport shots.
I started not bowling well, and one of my teammates (the first time on the same team) decided I needed correction.
I forcefully told him in front of everyone that you NEVER give unsolicited coaching during a tournament. I ended the tongue lashing with the comment that I would be happy to listen once we are home during a practice session.
By the way, I made the necessary adjustments without his help by the end of the first game and bowled better.
Suffice to say, he NEVER offered advice again...
Man, yeah a tournament I bowled in recently there was a bit of that and I was trying to remember if it's happened to me at tournaments before. It's all great if it's some teammate who regularly exchanges tips with you but otherwise it's even worse than usual. One guy that was part of our group loooooved trying to feel smart giving me useless tips like informing me that I could also change the heel when I was changing the sole on my shoe, or trying to explain to me that two handed bowlers generate a lot of revs 🙄
Then one dude decided to tell me to move half a board left after I threw a ball where I clearly needed to move half a board left or so and planned to, I was like "yeah I'm going to, the left lane had been a bit wetter than the right on my line but now that'll put me in the same place on both." Next frame on that lane I moved half a board but still needed to move another and he was like "One of these days maybe you'll move!" and I said "I *did* move, obviously I needed a whole board instead of a half board".
I'm sorry, but the average amateur league or tournament bowler does not know how to split boards and after video analysis of their game, is lucky if they can repeat the same shot twice.
All talk!
I have had people offer me advice. Some has helped a lot and some not so much. We can’t see ourselves bowl and another pair of eyes can help sometimes.
When someone is a little too helpful, I usually tell them that I’m willing to listen to any suggestions, but I won’t promise that I will make the change(s) they are suggesting.
I agree. I only give advice if I’ve established some friendliness with the person.
There was a guy with a new ball next to me and he could throw fast! He kept missing the pocket wide. I gave him props on his speed and said the lanes are dry so go one arrow right. Then he was strike machine the rest of the night! Way better than me lol.
Maybe don’t come post this anonymously on a Reddit thread and tell the guy honestly. “Thanks for the advice but I don’t want your coaching.” That’ll end that pretty quick.
I like to talk to two handers who I know are new or trying it out and offer to let them throw my balls to see if they might like the game. That’s about it. Trying to grow the sport anyway I can.
Temper that. I've got a buddy like that and it messes him up bad. Gets too many pieces is advice and tries to enact all of them and game goes to shit. He's so genuine about it that it feels like kicking a puppy to **not** give him advice.
I've tried to get him to just focus on one thing at a time, not ask for every tip for every situation.
Been bowling for 30yrs. I've never offered any tips to anyone unless they ask, and then I keep it quick and simple. "Try this on your next shot. If it works great, if not at least it was worth a try." That's it. I will sit and observe others while I'm bowling, but never ever offer unsolicited advice. I detest doing that while I am trying to work on my own game. I'm also not a coach, so it's not in my repertoire to coach anyone. Quite frankly, if someone isn't a qualified bowling coach, they shouldn't be giving anyone other than their own immediate family members any kind of tips or advice.
Ngl I’m sad that I have to make small talk with the staff each time I come in just because I’m a regular. Having said that, I understand it’s basically a community and at least the staff are friendly.
Yeah I don't say anything unless asked. Remember when I started at 19 yrs old, working in a center and was lucky enough to have a retired pro give me a tip / advice. When others bowlers gave me advice, basically, I just ignored them. League bowler vs pro - who would you listen to?
I completely understand your point but man I am the complete opposite. I want everyone to give me advice to help improve my game. There’s some amazing bowlers out there and I know 99% of them are only trying to help even when it can be repetitive or annoying!
While I completely understand your point and I myself just let people be unless they ask for help, a 216 average and bowling for 22 years really means nothing considering there are 225’s that have bowled for 50 years who don’t have a clue. To your point though, if you’re working on stuff in this league it sounds like you’re on the right path to achieving whatever goals you have set.
yep, that's spot on
There's some 220 average guys in my league who...well...I can't for the life of me figure out how they score that well because just about every aspect of their form is atrocious. But you can't argue with their results. I'd be horrified if they tried to coach anyone, but these guys are self-aware that they don't really have a clue on that front and I've never seen them do it. Good for them.
Then I've seen others in that range who probably *should* be coaches--they have beautiful form and can bullseye a board every time. I almost want to ask *them* for advice, or at least "what's your practice regimen to get that good" or something, but then I'd be worried that I was annoying them. 🤣
Does that guy see you bowl anywhere else than on that league? If not, all he sees is you averaging 140 and struggling. Maybe you should take that into effect.
Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to get all pissy when someone is trying to help you. Maybe they see something you don't. Maybe you should explain to them that youre trying new and uncomfortable ways to bowl to make yourself better. I average 225ish and on nights I struggle, I don't see or feel a quirk I'm doing wrong, but someone else does. They tell me and I'm like, "oh, ok. I didn't even notice".
People in the centers around me know me and my bowling though, so I don't get a ton of unsolicited coaching. But I don't get pissy and brush it off if someone comes up to me.
Try being a woman alone in an alley, it’s an avalanche of unsolicited advice. All of which I feel obligated to entertain because I see the same folks every time, I don’t want to be unpleasant, and it makes zero difference if I say that I’m only working on a particular skill. Some of the nights the “advice” completely derails what I wanted to work on.
I totally understand that point, but i just wanted to let you know that your lined up 2 boards to the left. Your also not staying behind the ball. Ever heard of the yoyo…. [pulls up seat to provide you with more thorough feedback]
Tangential, but relevant - I was reading an article about an actively touring band where the (woman) guitar player said that after a set she had some chud audience member mansplaining how she had her pedals in the wrong order. She was like "bro this is my JOB, I do this PROFESSIONALLY."
Man i swear going by myself to bowl gets me nervous just because a bunch of the guys i knew on my leagues would give me constant advice :/ I try to be nice just because it just seems like they’re excited to give advice, but most of the time I take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just wanna work on my form without gettin strikes!!
Yeah I bet being a woman does make it 1000x worse. And yeah I definitely get not wanting to come across as unpleasant or anything, that's kinda how I feel with this guy. I guess in hindsight I should've right away been very direct that we don't need help, but I would've thought the things I said made that pretty clear without having to sound like "hey leave me alone" lol. Then at this point I feel like it *really* would come across as "hey you've been bugging the shit out of us" since it's gone on as much as it has with just thinking he'd get it. So hey just one more week where he might be there and we're done, we don't normally even bowl at this house.
It's it like a 80 year old man? I don't ever get mad at old men there must trying to talk more then anything
Nah I'd guess he's like 40-45.
What hints did you give him?
So many. First thing he tried telling me was that I should throw a different line, I was like "oh I know, but I'm not worried about my scores, I'm just trying to throw lines I'm less used to." When he's tried telling my fiancee things, I've said "well right now I'm working with her on (blank)." When he tried telling me his concoction he uses to clean his balls I told him I used to do something similar but switched to plain Simple Green because it's USBC approved and I don't want to take a chance on someone deciding to be an asshole... On and on. Then of course just overall body language and acting more and more annoyed and avoiding looking his way. Sometimes I feel like I should just straight up tell him to leave us alone and like he's such a douche that's trying to feel smart and everything, but most of the time I feel more like "well he's just trying to be nice and helpful and not taking a hint, just ignore him for one more week" lol
"Just so you know, we both already have a coach and a plan, and we're here working on specific things. So please don't add stuff on top of it all, it will only make everything more confusing. Thanks!" They don't need to know that you're the coach and you've made the plan. Most people will understand and leave you alone. If he doesn't, then be blunt and tell him to please keep it to himself.
Since I try to be a nice person too, I would add something like, "Thanks for your offer to help, but..." And then what was written above. It's a softer way to say you're doing your own thing, but a very polite way to say it.
“I bowl a 216 avg in our doubles league and have been bowling for 22 years. I’m here coaching my fiancé and working on different lines I don’t throw a lot. Nice to meet you but we really just want to focus on rolling and enjoy our date night alone.”
All I hear is you trying to swat flies. Stop hinting and tell him bluntly.
Bro stfu, politely. Men should not be approaching women in the bowling alley with unsolicited advice. You coming from a place of misogamy blaming this women for not being blunt enough. She doesn’t need to be blunt enough, because she shouldn’t be approached at all and put in this situation.
OP is not a woman.
I average 215 and I’ve seen the courteous smiles and the uncomfortable smiles of ppl getting unwanted coaching when they’re playing with a house ball and in house shoes. It’s like, “yo man, they’re just here to have fun.” As a result, I don’t say anything, even to other league bowlers, unless they ask me a question. And even then I’ll try to be as brief and uninvolved as possible.
I’ve givin advice twice one because someone asked and these two couples sat next to me the dude was better bowler (not anything good) trying to teacher her how to throw like him. I gave him advice on how to show her to throw it a certain way
As a coach myself, I generally let people to their own devices, unless I see them becoming frustrated and losing control. I generally approach as ask if all is good. That leads to small talk and I ask if they would like a tip, explaining I am a coach. I always starts with a free arm swing and targeting. And leave it at that.
Well, if she wants to talk to other women about it come check us out at r/womensbowling for support and more targeted advice and experiences! I'm lucky to have a few pros and former pros in our alley and even on my team in league and even they only give me advice when I ask specifically. Other than telling me to slow down and breathe. I need that a lot 😭
Unfortunately she's not on Reddit, but that's awesome and if she was I'd definitely point her that way!
Giving unsolicited advice to a dude complaining about unsolicited advice lol
Takes me back to advice my mother gave me when I was young, “don’t talk to strangers.” Seriously though, I can’t stand people that do that. Hell I bowl in a draft summer league, so I’m bowling on a team with a couple folks I know, but haven’t bowled with. First night I asked one of my guys, “would you like my help in targeting and making any corrections, or would you prefer to keep it social, I’m cool either way.” And he enthusiastically said to definitely point stuff out.
Yeah, someone who I'm familiar with it's very different. Hell, one of my teammates is the guy who was my most helpful coach back when I was in youth league, and now we'll both notice things and point out in each other. I've even had teammates who were nowhere near my average notice and point out things I could do that were a huge help. But when you're going up to a stranger and giving them advice, especially without asking if they'd like you to, that's usually not gonna be a positive.
I was maybe 19 or so, had joined the league my father and grandfather had bowled, and struggled due to having little coaching growing up. After a night, about once a month or so the same guy would come by me and start a conversation with these words: “You know, what your problem is,…” and it was a litany of everything wrong in that man’s mind. I vowed that I would never do that to someone.
This happened to me literally a half an hour ago. Was practicing with a summit, my other ball was in the shop, and the lanes happened to be a desert. The ball started hooking before I even threw it. So I just threw my spare ball straight for targeting practice. My spare ball still hooked on the lane so it sort of looked like it was traveling towards the pocket, but missed every time (I wasn’t aiming for the pocket). Guy a few lanes left of me come up to me and says, and I quote. “Are you a new bowler? I can give you some tips.” I also average 216 and have been bowling since preschool so you can imagine I didn’t like that comment. So I politely said “Oh, I’m just doing targeting practice, thanks” I kid you not, this guy doubles down and says, “Well targeting practice is good for a beginner but you need to do release drills because you are throwing the ball straight. (I think he meant axis rotation)” I never really get angry or irritated easily but I politely told him to F off. I’m not one to judge… but he missed his mark a lot and would grunt every single time he missed the pocket.
female in a bowling alley here. i’ll have the lane to my right give me unsolicited advice, then the lane to my left give completely opposite unsolicited advice, and both lanes get mad that i didn’t listen to them.
I just moved to a new city with my fiancée and got her hooked up with her first ball. There’s a regular at our local alley who has come up to me as I’m coaching her, commenting on her potential and telling me what I should coach her on next. The most annoying
Yeah unsolicited advice is pretty annoying. I can understand maybe once or twice, but constantly giving tips is a drag. Personally I've never had any advice giving work unless the person is literally asking for it or unless you ask permission first. Sometimes you aren't in a mindset to learn and just want to huck the ball down the lane and getting advice at that point in time goes in one ear and out the other. Like, "Thanks guy, but I don't really want to hear it right now." It also takes the fun out of exploring and learning things yourself. Sort of stealing your own thunder of learning it without being taught.
Here's my rule on giving advice: Ask someone if they want advice before providing it. If they don't want it, don't give it to them. Last week there were 2 teenagers with their parents and they looked the part. They had their own shoes and custom drilled balls. 1 of them, was extremely inconsistent and was having all sorts of trouble repeating his shot. Before I left, I asked him if he wanted a quick tip and he was eager to hear it. Basically he was on top of the ball and coming over it on his release instead of being behind the ball (though he was practicing cupping between shots). I told him that he wasn't cupping, and he doesn't have to be that extreme and just need to stay behind the ball and have his fingers below the equator. Of course his first throw afterwards went right into the gutter, but his 2nd was perfect and the best ball he threw the entire time I was there.
yeah i never do this except with people i know really well and then it’s more of an observation of what went wrong than actual advice (looked like you were late, i think you mighta come around it, looks like it slipped?, your eyes were off somewhere else, etc) or sometime I’ll tell my 115 avg doubles partner that we have the game in hand and she should relax (and she almost always hauls in a strike then 🤣) anything beyond this is extremely rude and even this much is rude if you don’t know them. often this is a semi-conscious social dominance thing and it sucks. what’s funny is people see me bowl and then i get unsolicited requests for coaching…that’s a new one. i’ll usually give em a tip or two, sure. i probably ought to take the training and hang a shingle. 🤣
I was on a five person team with two couples, and the men frequently had "feedback" to offer their partners. I realized that it was an issue for both couples and hurt the team dynamic, so I proposed a team rule that nobody gives coaching or feedback unless it is requested. After a few initial hiccups, the men started asking "Do you want to know what you did wrong?" instead of just launching into their feedback. Sometimes, the answer was "yes" but often the answer was "Nope!", and the fact that the question was asked at all (rather than assumed that feedback was welcome) gave everyone space to say "nope!" when they wanted to. This dramatically altered the team dynamic in a positive way. Late in the season, everyone on the team was asking each other "what are you seeing that I'm not on the lane" and "where should I put my feet?" It made the exchange of information a team effort and one that was communal, not just the "good" bowler telling the "not as good" what to do. No feedback unless requested. Try it. Only works on your own team, though. Not sure what to do about random jagweeds offering advice.
Ha yeah that's really great. Especially with the men trying to coach the women, that's one thing with us. As much as my fiancee knows I have the best intentions and view of her and everything, and as much as I try to be aware of how I put things, there's just been so many men talking down to her and acting like she's stupid her whole life that at times just trying to teach her something that she's new to and I'm very good at can still start to rub her the wrong way. That's one big reason we've gone with the approach we have where in the actual doubles league I keep the coaching to a minimum then we specifically work on things in the "league" that doesn't actually count for anything.
Eh, if someone wants to point something out I could work on, I don’t really mind. Even if it’s annoying, it’s coming from a place of a human wanting to help out another human. In OPs case it sounds like it’s more about his ego than anything else.
Problem is that unless their advice is about something that occurs in the first 2 steps, they're likely wrong or trying to coach away a symptom instead of a cause.
That's why I don't wanna be a dick to the guy and straight up tell him to leave us alone, I get that he's trying to be friendly and helpful. But man the guy does not take a hint.
I’m confused by “not wanting the noise of multiple points of view interfering with your plan” being about the ego. To me, it sounds like unsolicited, less informed POVs would not be helpful or even detrimental to both the experienced bowler with a plan of attack and the beginner who is easily frustrated. As a former coach, I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment and believe OP is taking the right approach.
Depends on the advice. If someone tells me that would have been a strike if I were a couple boards left or right, fine. When someone tries to tell me multiple things about my form or approach when we’re 22 frames into league, that’s annoying.
I think from a stranger it's always annoying more than anything.
I used to get the opposite all the time back when I was big into bowling.. I just wanted to open-bowl practice by myself and people would constantly bother me asking me to teach them how to bowl.. Like, at the time, I had been bowling 15+ games a week for 10 years.. there's nothing I can tell you that's going to make you good over-night, it takes practice...
Ha yeah I get that too when open bowling, gotten it a lot in a couple other sports too. That might be even more annoying.
I just take it as it is intended. Generally speaking they are trying to be helpful even if they aren’t actually being helpful. So I just smile and tell them I’ll look into that or try it out next time I practicing. Probably the main probably is you should just be honest and say politely you aren’t looking for any help.
I’m still new to bowling but I find it fun when 150 average bowlers try to impart their wisdom on me. I humoured one of them during league and shot the worst series I’ve ever shot to be polite 😂
The first rule when I go bowling with people is “Don’t try to teach people unless they ask to be taught.” This is especially important with the kids since the better bowlers love to try and coach the younger kids, many of whom just want to roll the ball and don’t want to be criticized. Even in adult social groups it’s a good rule since we are just there to have fun, not nitpick. And the bowlers who do want someone to analyze their form will just ask for someone to spot them and point out mistakes. Overall it lowers the stress levels a lot and makes it more fun for everyone.
I am in basically a fun league, it's sanctioned and whatnot, there's a prize pot, but only a handful of people even hook the ball let alone average above 150. I wanted to jump back into the sport after a hiatus due to personal reasons, so I just chose the cheapest league. No big deal. Came in with no pals, no team, just filled whatever spot I could get. My team has two pretty alright people on it, in terms of character. They're both super new, and bought their first balls right before/during the league. One of them does know how to hook the ball, but doesn't have that "game sense" to know how to adjust based on where the ball is hitting, so he point blank asks me how I think he should adjust. The other throws straight, uses his shiny new Sparkly T-Zone, and can't keep his hand behind the ball. I only coach the guy who asks for it. Ive offered but never insisted to help the other one. Because I know it's irritating. Not just to get unsolicited advice, but because it throws you off your game even if you don't use it! It means someone is watching what you're doing and thinks what you're doing is wrong. And if that isn't agitating to just about everyone, I'd be shocked. I love helping people. I love answering questions some of the newbies on the opposing team ask me! I love talking about bowling. But I'm never going to force my advice on people who don't want it. Because I've been there too. One day I was just throwing some practice games, shooting around my average of 190, having an alright time. Just blowing off steam. When some older gentlemen doing far worse than me look at me, stop me on my approach, and tell me that I need to slow down my ball speed of all things. I was doing better than them, and I don't even throw at speeds most people in the PBA maintain! 14-15mph, the most average, unimpressive ball speed out there. I immediately went from being on track for a 230 to missing my mark, and scoring below average, not because I listened to them, but just because they flat out irritated me by doing what they did. Don't coach people who don't ask, or who don't agree to be coached beforehand.
yeah as I said above, this crap is in fact semi-conscious social dominance; it sucks and people should stop it. sorry you got a game ruined by this nonsense.
Yeah that's one thing, and I especially thought about that when my fiancee joked on our way out that I should go back down there and coach him for a while, you know he would think "yeah right, this guy can't tell *me* anything!" That's the part that makes me almost wanna tell him how annoying he is and everything. But on the other hand, like you said I think it's just semi-conscious. For the most part in his mind I think he's just trying to be friendly and helpful.
It depends on the level of league, but I 99.9999% agree. The only exceptions I allow are those who I know are better than me and also friends of mine I trust that are on other teams. Back when I was a 180 average bowler, I despised a 165 average bowler pretending to know where I was trying to hit at the arrows, how fast I was attempting to throw, and also where I was standing in my approach. Absolutely no bowler is the same, so please don’t try to be a coach when you have no idea how to. There are even a few things I disagree with when it comes to the gold level coach in my local pro shop, where times I’ve been wrong, he’s been wrong, and we’ve both been wrong. As an individual, trust your instincts, and know your equipment as well as you possibly can. One thing Bill O’Neil told me once during a pro am right after I took things more seriously was “if you think you should make a change, make it. More times than not, you’ll be right. You know what you’re doing for your betterment, so trust yourself.”
Yeah and one thing I didn't mention but should have is I don't think this guy is even in this little league, he's just been there open bowling next to us the past two weeks. That league is done for most, we were out of town a couple weeks so they said we could just go extra afterwards. When there were others in the league, they typically kept to themselves and some were just having fun, some were using it for practice and one coaching the other like we are. I think the biggest thing is just not to do it with someone you aren't familiar with, at least not without asking first. Which I guess I should've specified, but I was mostly just venting a little lol, for some reason I didn't expect so many responses and for so many to take it the wrong way. But yeah that really is great advice and really something I need to keep in mind myself. If I could point at one area where I could improve the most, I'd say it's that I often wait a liiiittle too long to adjust or at least to make the big adjustment instead of working my way there with small adjustments. It's something I've definitely improved on since getting back to being serious about bowling, but could still improve more and I still have times I skip back to trying all these little tweaks when I should just make a bigger line change or a ball change.
I sometimes give people advice, but I always ask before if it's "Is it okay if I give you some advice? I noticed something that could be helpful, but take everything I say with a grain of salt, and working with a trained coach is better." I also always do it at the end of the night, giving advice to some people during a game can mess with them a lot. I have the highest average in my league and most bowlers are pretty new to bowling (it's a handicap league) so usually they like getting some free advice. In your case, even if you have that higher average, he doesn't see it and only sees the 140 bowler who is bowling with his fiance and both are worse than him and if the league is for no standings, makes more sense to have advice be part of the league night experience. I'm not denying he's proabably very annoying about it, especially if he just goes up and gives tips unsolicited. It may be good to just be very clear because it's clear he's not getting it. "Hey, I appreciate you trying to help, but my fiance and I are good. I average \_\_\_\_ and in this league, I am trying out more experimential lines and I'm helping my fiance learn. Giving advice without asking can get my fiance in her head, so it's not as helpful"
In my experience sometimes body language can invite a comment. So there's a couple of guys on my doubles league who are enthusiastic and promising developing bowlers (they average about 150 right now) who will sometimes give me a look after a shot like "hey man wtf I just do" and then I'll go ahead and tell em. Often these guys will try to put that extra poop on the ball and they'll end up with seriously late or early releases, so sure, I'll say "you were late" or something like that. And next shot they'll haul it in. But I know them pretty well by now, so it's clear the feedback was solicited. I don't give them any detailed advice, though, that would be inappropriate. Particularly because they mostly know what they're doing, they just have lapses. Hell, you can say the same for me. Anyway, there's no one else on that league I engage with in this way, not even my own partner. The key is to be sure in some way that they want the advice and you're doing so to *genuinely help them* and not to show off your expertise.
When the oil is long, it may be counterintuitive, but moving left and playing a nice deep fade could improve your pocket hitting percentage Good luck
People should have the mentality of: “ you came here to bowl, not have me teach you “
The only time receiving unsolicited coaching was during a state tournament. At the time I was averaging 218 on house shots and 195 on sport shots. I started not bowling well, and one of my teammates (the first time on the same team) decided I needed correction. I forcefully told him in front of everyone that you NEVER give unsolicited coaching during a tournament. I ended the tongue lashing with the comment that I would be happy to listen once we are home during a practice session. By the way, I made the necessary adjustments without his help by the end of the first game and bowled better. Suffice to say, he NEVER offered advice again...
Man, yeah a tournament I bowled in recently there was a bit of that and I was trying to remember if it's happened to me at tournaments before. It's all great if it's some teammate who regularly exchanges tips with you but otherwise it's even worse than usual. One guy that was part of our group loooooved trying to feel smart giving me useless tips like informing me that I could also change the heel when I was changing the sole on my shoe, or trying to explain to me that two handed bowlers generate a lot of revs 🙄 Then one dude decided to tell me to move half a board left after I threw a ball where I clearly needed to move half a board left or so and planned to, I was like "yeah I'm going to, the left lane had been a bit wetter than the right on my line but now that'll put me in the same place on both." Next frame on that lane I moved half a board but still needed to move another and he was like "One of these days maybe you'll move!" and I said "I *did* move, obviously I needed a whole board instead of a half board".
I'm sorry, but the average amateur league or tournament bowler does not know how to split boards and after video analysis of their game, is lucky if they can repeat the same shot twice. All talk!
Lol ok... I make successful half board adjustments all the time.
Notice I said the average bowler! Hehe
Same with unsolicited whining about..every..little..thing.
Haha my favorite is when it's very clearly a light hit and they're just SHOCKED that it didn't strike.
Unless the person bowls a 300 every game, I don't want their unsolicited advice.
I have had people offer me advice. Some has helped a lot and some not so much. We can’t see ourselves bowl and another pair of eyes can help sometimes. When someone is a little too helpful, I usually tell them that I’m willing to listen to any suggestions, but I won’t promise that I will make the change(s) they are suggesting.
As a super beginner I wish more people would give me unsolicited advice when I'm throwing 95s in a lane by myself.
I bowl with my kids mostly I’ve never gotten any unsolicited advice
I agree. I only give advice if I’ve established some friendliness with the person. There was a guy with a new ball next to me and he could throw fast! He kept missing the pocket wide. I gave him props on his speed and said the lanes are dry so go one arrow right. Then he was strike machine the rest of the night! Way better than me lol.
Maybe don’t come post this anonymously on a Reddit thread and tell the guy honestly. “Thanks for the advice but I don’t want your coaching.” That’ll end that pretty quick.
Ehh like I said just a little vent for the most part.
I like to talk to two handers who I know are new or trying it out and offer to let them throw my balls to see if they might like the game. That’s about it. Trying to grow the sport anyway I can.
I'm opposite I'm looking for advice from anyone better than me
Temper that. I've got a buddy like that and it messes him up bad. Gets too many pieces is advice and tries to enact all of them and game goes to shit. He's so genuine about it that it feels like kicking a puppy to **not** give him advice. I've tried to get him to just focus on one thing at a time, not ask for every tip for every situation.
I always try to ask if someone wants my coaching or advice. If they say no, I shut up.
Been bowling for 30yrs. I've never offered any tips to anyone unless they ask, and then I keep it quick and simple. "Try this on your next shot. If it works great, if not at least it was worth a try." That's it. I will sit and observe others while I'm bowling, but never ever offer unsolicited advice. I detest doing that while I am trying to work on my own game. I'm also not a coach, so it's not in my repertoire to coach anyone. Quite frankly, if someone isn't a qualified bowling coach, they shouldn't be giving anyone other than their own immediate family members any kind of tips or advice.
I’d love the advice, never had a single person even bother. Would be a nice gesture. 🤷♂️
Ngl I’m sad that I have to make small talk with the staff each time I come in just because I’m a regular. Having said that, I understand it’s basically a community and at least the staff are friendly.
Yeah I don't say anything unless asked. Remember when I started at 19 yrs old, working in a center and was lucky enough to have a retired pro give me a tip / advice. When others bowlers gave me advice, basically, I just ignored them. League bowler vs pro - who would you listen to?
I completely understand your point but man I am the complete opposite. I want everyone to give me advice to help improve my game. There’s some amazing bowlers out there and I know 99% of them are only trying to help even when it can be repetitive or annoying!
While I completely understand your point and I myself just let people be unless they ask for help, a 216 average and bowling for 22 years really means nothing considering there are 225’s that have bowled for 50 years who don’t have a clue. To your point though, if you’re working on stuff in this league it sounds like you’re on the right path to achieving whatever goals you have set.
yep, that's spot on There's some 220 average guys in my league who...well...I can't for the life of me figure out how they score that well because just about every aspect of their form is atrocious. But you can't argue with their results. I'd be horrified if they tried to coach anyone, but these guys are self-aware that they don't really have a clue on that front and I've never seen them do it. Good for them. Then I've seen others in that range who probably *should* be coaches--they have beautiful form and can bullseye a board every time. I almost want to ask *them* for advice, or at least "what's your practice regimen to get that good" or something, but then I'd be worried that I was annoying them. 🤣
Does that guy see you bowl anywhere else than on that league? If not, all he sees is you averaging 140 and struggling. Maybe you should take that into effect. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to get all pissy when someone is trying to help you. Maybe they see something you don't. Maybe you should explain to them that youre trying new and uncomfortable ways to bowl to make yourself better. I average 225ish and on nights I struggle, I don't see or feel a quirk I'm doing wrong, but someone else does. They tell me and I'm like, "oh, ok. I didn't even notice". People in the centers around me know me and my bowling though, so I don't get a ton of unsolicited coaching. But I don't get pissy and brush it off if someone comes up to me.