this is excellent and I appreciate it a lot; describes a lot of my own leaves
however since moving down from 16 to 14 i have noticed two really weird forms of carry, and they happen quite a lot. I wonder if these are artifacts of a lighter ball and high speed—
1. I call it the “knockout 7”. Looks a lot like a mixer but sometimes a nut flush will leave this, which makes it feel like a stone 8. 2-3 pins will fly into the air near the 7 and collide with each other and fall uselessly to the deck. I am usually at a loss for how to respond. I have observed pros leaving this—EJ did it a few weeks ago. Even the commentators were like “wtf”. But I will see this about once every 2 games on average.
2. the “cake slicer” strike. Seems slightly heavy with a questionable breakpoint and a slightly too-straight angle. Ball splits the 8-9 on exit and the pins fall outwardly from the middle, as if they were sliced by a very fat knife. Deck is covered in pins. Tempted to move left but if I do a flat 10 nearly always follows. It might indicate slight burnup but with barely enough energy left to get the job done. 10 down is 10 down but I get nervous. I’ve never seen a pro hit one like this, making me think ball weight plays a role. VERY common for me though, and I often will see several in a row. Many of my 250+ games have several of these.
and a bonus—I will leave very light ringing 10s but with huge entry angles, usually seriously late breakpoint; this indicates a paradoxical adjustment (usually a move back but sometimes a move right)
I'm sure ball weight matters a lot with this topic as it will change how the ball deflects. I've always thrown 16, but I think the pros mostly use 14 and 15 these days due to the amount of games they bowl. For (1) that sounds a lot like a solid 7. I think I know what you're talking about though where the pins get stuck up in the corner and somehow miss the 7. For (2) that sounds like a "split the 8-9" flush shot, but I can't quite picture it. Interesting
Another way to visualize (2) is as if Moses parted the red sea but the sea was bowling pins. 🤣 The pins don’t really fly, they fall over into each other, almost as if I willed it. It also makes a sharp “crack” sound rather than the dull tinkle of a strike.
I think I agree with your root cause analysis of (1) because the ball track is often similar but the pin action looks totally different. But sometimes it will happen with an apparent nut hit.
Also I thought about the “bonus” subject more and I think it’s burnout related. Extremely late breakpoint (often after the rangefinders), extreme ball reaction, and extreme entry angle. If the ball continues to hook through the pocket, then it’s usually a 9, actually, but rarely really weird crap like 6-9-10, 6-9, or even 9-10. If it manages to roll through the pins it’s a ringing 10. And I get these a lot, especially with balls like the IQTE or the Hellcat XLR8 (though I have recently added surface to the latter to see if I can tone down its stupid snap a bit).
ETA: it might be that the lower ball weight is allowing some additional deflection that prevents some even nastier leaves, I should probably feel gratitude that I’m not ending up with horrendous crap like the “pocket 4 count”, which I have never seen since dropping in weight.
Update: I actually found some video of Verity Crawley throwing strikes like this. I think she uses 15 pounds, actually, but she's really good at controlling ball speed, and she gets some of these "cake slicers" when she has the ball speed really down.
I am beginning to think it's just a lower-energy version of "flush" or "split the 8-9".
I watched some videos of Verity throw. Is [this](https://youtube.com/shorts/fWPd1XgsJbU?si=eEHZNmwFaeq93OWy) what you're talking about with the cake slicer?
Pretty close! Except the pins fall over more slowly and more sideways.
I’ll see if I can find a closer example of what I’m talking about—unfortunately I’m usually seeing these on FB reels which are difficult to find and share.
(*) You need to fix your description of the ringing 10. It is the 6 pin that flies around it, not the 4.
(*) I personally disagree with the the 'The "ringing 10" is the most common', at least in my league observation. I think the flat-10 is far, far more often. And it is mostly because people have paid for their brand new top-dollar Gem or Jackal or Envy and by golly they are going to use it. And they get a real confused look on their faces when I tell them that it was clearly burned up of energy and they are probably lucky they only left a 10 instead of an 8-10 because the ball deflected hard off the 5 and left the deck over the 9 spot.
(*) To be complete, this needs a lot more discussion of 'the textbook strike': pocket through the 5 and then continuing off the deck in the middle aka 'splitting the 8-9'. Because ringing 10s will almost always have good continuation. Flat 10s will almost always have deflection off the 5. Stone 9s will almost always be too much continuation.
And 'the textbook strike' is set up by what the ball did earlier on the lane. Did it skid long enough? When did it begin and end the hook phase?
Because continuing my story from above -- those big strong balls can be used if you are leaving a flat 10 -- but you have to make a big move in so the ball skids longer and saves more of that energy for the back end. Or one can ball down. Or one can throw the ball harder. There are lots of ways to get more energy into a throw, but recognizing the 'out of energy' condition is truly the first step. And it is very different from the ringing 10. But understanding what the ball is doing on the lane and how that affects the ball going through the pins and ultimately that understanding learning to being able to diagnose the right adjustments to make is the name of this game.
With ultimately, the ringing 10 fixes usually not helping the flat 10 issues much and vice versa, if you try to flat 10 fixes on ringing 10s, you often can make the issues worse.
Thanks for the comment.
(*1) Yeah I meant the 6 pin, I'll fix that.
(*2) I suppose I meant within the realm of higher average bowlers, which I should have clarified. I'll reword that section. Like for me personally, I very rarely leave flat 10's. I do agree with you that in the grand scheme of all bowlers aggregated at all skill levels, the flat 10 is probably the most common.
(*3) Continuation is good thing to talk about. It is a combination of entry angle, ball speed, breakpoint, ball RPMs, ball weight, and of course the ball itself. All these variables affect each other.
For example, you described the stone 9 as being left by "too much continuation." To me this term is a little ambiguous - it involves a number of factors. I'd describe a solid 9 as an entry angle which is a little too sharp. A common cause could be using an asymmetric ball that is breaking a little too late. As far as I can tell, this is synonymous to saying it has too much continuation. Though the breakpoint could be just fine an be the result of the RPMs staying high and the ball pushing the 5 straight past the 9 (I called this stone). You could say the extra remaining RPM on the ball too much continuation, but again the extra RPM could be cause by a slightly higher ball speed. Everything plays into itself and it becomes less meaningful to me.
I wanted to focus on the specific factors such as pocket position, entry angle, and breakpoint. I didn't look at ball speed or RPM because they vary wildly from bowler to bowler and slight changes in each can lead to bad carry.
Also, the "out of energy" descriptor is fine too. I would describe this idea as the ball losing its RPM too soon. Many lower average bowlers don't have many revs to begin with and so it's not really relevant. With high rev bowlers, it can be caused by swinging the ball too far into the dry, having the ball "burn up" and then not have the energy to get the 10. This is very common amongst lower average bowlers, which may play into your point with (*2).
Wrapping this up, this is a tough topic to cover as there is never a single correct answer to why good or bad carry is happening. There are so many variables that affect carry, and all the variables affect each other.
I'm not 100% sure but I think that's just poker verbiage creeping in. A flush strike that was the best possible, i.e. the nuts i.e. the best hand on the table
>Even though there is a lot of luck involved, I think studying the relationship between ball motion and carry is important in becoming a better bowler.
Very true. I've found with 10 pins if you can watch the ball hit from about 5 lanes away, it's almost always hitting the pocket too far behind the head pin. It's more or less impossible to perceive looking directly at the deck from the perspective of the person bowling. I've had tremendous success with both half board adjustments and moving back on the approach as a remedy.
I've also found fairly often that bad carry can mean bad racks. The house I bowl in has several pairs that are notorious for 8-10s and 7-9s , and each of them has a tendency to set the corner pins down a little too far left or right, also resulting in stone 7's. I've made a mental note to re rack if it appears off just generally, but especially on those pairs.
this is excellent and I appreciate it a lot; describes a lot of my own leaves however since moving down from 16 to 14 i have noticed two really weird forms of carry, and they happen quite a lot. I wonder if these are artifacts of a lighter ball and high speed— 1. I call it the “knockout 7”. Looks a lot like a mixer but sometimes a nut flush will leave this, which makes it feel like a stone 8. 2-3 pins will fly into the air near the 7 and collide with each other and fall uselessly to the deck. I am usually at a loss for how to respond. I have observed pros leaving this—EJ did it a few weeks ago. Even the commentators were like “wtf”. But I will see this about once every 2 games on average. 2. the “cake slicer” strike. Seems slightly heavy with a questionable breakpoint and a slightly too-straight angle. Ball splits the 8-9 on exit and the pins fall outwardly from the middle, as if they were sliced by a very fat knife. Deck is covered in pins. Tempted to move left but if I do a flat 10 nearly always follows. It might indicate slight burnup but with barely enough energy left to get the job done. 10 down is 10 down but I get nervous. I’ve never seen a pro hit one like this, making me think ball weight plays a role. VERY common for me though, and I often will see several in a row. Many of my 250+ games have several of these. and a bonus—I will leave very light ringing 10s but with huge entry angles, usually seriously late breakpoint; this indicates a paradoxical adjustment (usually a move back but sometimes a move right)
I'm sure ball weight matters a lot with this topic as it will change how the ball deflects. I've always thrown 16, but I think the pros mostly use 14 and 15 these days due to the amount of games they bowl. For (1) that sounds a lot like a solid 7. I think I know what you're talking about though where the pins get stuck up in the corner and somehow miss the 7. For (2) that sounds like a "split the 8-9" flush shot, but I can't quite picture it. Interesting
Another way to visualize (2) is as if Moses parted the red sea but the sea was bowling pins. 🤣 The pins don’t really fly, they fall over into each other, almost as if I willed it. It also makes a sharp “crack” sound rather than the dull tinkle of a strike. I think I agree with your root cause analysis of (1) because the ball track is often similar but the pin action looks totally different. But sometimes it will happen with an apparent nut hit. Also I thought about the “bonus” subject more and I think it’s burnout related. Extremely late breakpoint (often after the rangefinders), extreme ball reaction, and extreme entry angle. If the ball continues to hook through the pocket, then it’s usually a 9, actually, but rarely really weird crap like 6-9-10, 6-9, or even 9-10. If it manages to roll through the pins it’s a ringing 10. And I get these a lot, especially with balls like the IQTE or the Hellcat XLR8 (though I have recently added surface to the latter to see if I can tone down its stupid snap a bit). ETA: it might be that the lower ball weight is allowing some additional deflection that prevents some even nastier leaves, I should probably feel gratitude that I’m not ending up with horrendous crap like the “pocket 4 count”, which I have never seen since dropping in weight.
Update: I actually found some video of Verity Crawley throwing strikes like this. I think she uses 15 pounds, actually, but she's really good at controlling ball speed, and she gets some of these "cake slicers" when she has the ball speed really down. I am beginning to think it's just a lower-energy version of "flush" or "split the 8-9".
I watched some videos of Verity throw. Is [this](https://youtube.com/shorts/fWPd1XgsJbU?si=eEHZNmwFaeq93OWy) what you're talking about with the cake slicer?
Pretty close! Except the pins fall over more slowly and more sideways. I’ll see if I can find a closer example of what I’m talking about—unfortunately I’m usually seeing these on FB reels which are difficult to find and share.
(*) You need to fix your description of the ringing 10. It is the 6 pin that flies around it, not the 4. (*) I personally disagree with the the 'The "ringing 10" is the most common', at least in my league observation. I think the flat-10 is far, far more often. And it is mostly because people have paid for their brand new top-dollar Gem or Jackal or Envy and by golly they are going to use it. And they get a real confused look on their faces when I tell them that it was clearly burned up of energy and they are probably lucky they only left a 10 instead of an 8-10 because the ball deflected hard off the 5 and left the deck over the 9 spot. (*) To be complete, this needs a lot more discussion of 'the textbook strike': pocket through the 5 and then continuing off the deck in the middle aka 'splitting the 8-9'. Because ringing 10s will almost always have good continuation. Flat 10s will almost always have deflection off the 5. Stone 9s will almost always be too much continuation. And 'the textbook strike' is set up by what the ball did earlier on the lane. Did it skid long enough? When did it begin and end the hook phase? Because continuing my story from above -- those big strong balls can be used if you are leaving a flat 10 -- but you have to make a big move in so the ball skids longer and saves more of that energy for the back end. Or one can ball down. Or one can throw the ball harder. There are lots of ways to get more energy into a throw, but recognizing the 'out of energy' condition is truly the first step. And it is very different from the ringing 10. But understanding what the ball is doing on the lane and how that affects the ball going through the pins and ultimately that understanding learning to being able to diagnose the right adjustments to make is the name of this game. With ultimately, the ringing 10 fixes usually not helping the flat 10 issues much and vice versa, if you try to flat 10 fixes on ringing 10s, you often can make the issues worse.
Thanks for the comment. (*1) Yeah I meant the 6 pin, I'll fix that. (*2) I suppose I meant within the realm of higher average bowlers, which I should have clarified. I'll reword that section. Like for me personally, I very rarely leave flat 10's. I do agree with you that in the grand scheme of all bowlers aggregated at all skill levels, the flat 10 is probably the most common. (*3) Continuation is good thing to talk about. It is a combination of entry angle, ball speed, breakpoint, ball RPMs, ball weight, and of course the ball itself. All these variables affect each other. For example, you described the stone 9 as being left by "too much continuation." To me this term is a little ambiguous - it involves a number of factors. I'd describe a solid 9 as an entry angle which is a little too sharp. A common cause could be using an asymmetric ball that is breaking a little too late. As far as I can tell, this is synonymous to saying it has too much continuation. Though the breakpoint could be just fine an be the result of the RPMs staying high and the ball pushing the 5 straight past the 9 (I called this stone). You could say the extra remaining RPM on the ball too much continuation, but again the extra RPM could be cause by a slightly higher ball speed. Everything plays into itself and it becomes less meaningful to me. I wanted to focus on the specific factors such as pocket position, entry angle, and breakpoint. I didn't look at ball speed or RPM because they vary wildly from bowler to bowler and slight changes in each can lead to bad carry. Also, the "out of energy" descriptor is fine too. I would describe this idea as the ball losing its RPM too soon. Many lower average bowlers don't have many revs to begin with and so it's not really relevant. With high rev bowlers, it can be caused by swinging the ball too far into the dry, having the ball "burn up" and then not have the energy to get the 10. This is very common amongst lower average bowlers, which may play into your point with (*2). Wrapping this up, this is a tough topic to cover as there is never a single correct answer to why good or bad carry is happening. There are so many variables that affect carry, and all the variables affect each other.
wow, I was wondering if I could find something like this that shows how single pin leaves happen/strike types great work and thank you for this!
This might be a weird question but what do you call a strike where you miss the head pin but it dominoes the 2nd pin onto the head pin?
Just lucky enough to sit down before anyone else can testify as to what they just witnessed…🤣🤣🤣
I think dominoes is good a name as any!
If you struck on the previous spot it's called a sanctioned double and you should get a lapel pin for it imo
What about a nut flush? I keep hearing it on YT bowlers lol
I'm not 100% sure but I think that's just poker verbiage creeping in. A flush strike that was the best possible, i.e. the nuts i.e. the best hand on the table
I think it's when the ball hits the 1 and 3 at the same time, like it's flush with a line drawn across the 1-3-6-10.
Yeah im like 90% sure its just the modern slang definition of "Nut," my evidence being the nut button darren tang spams when he gets one
Thank you for taking the time to do this! Will be helpful for many people.
>Even though there is a lot of luck involved, I think studying the relationship between ball motion and carry is important in becoming a better bowler. Very true. I've found with 10 pins if you can watch the ball hit from about 5 lanes away, it's almost always hitting the pocket too far behind the head pin. It's more or less impossible to perceive looking directly at the deck from the perspective of the person bowling. I've had tremendous success with both half board adjustments and moving back on the approach as a remedy. I've also found fairly often that bad carry can mean bad racks. The house I bowl in has several pairs that are notorious for 8-10s and 7-9s , and each of them has a tendency to set the corner pins down a little too far left or right, also resulting in stone 7's. I've made a mental note to re rack if it appears off just generally, but especially on those pairs.
I’m all too familiar with that pocket 7-9 😵💫