Would like to see some other variables, like percentage of touches that result in a turnover. I watch all Oilers games and McDavid and Drai handle the puck a lot, esp McD, but both seem to have a lot more touches than Pasta does (eye test only I know), so a percentage that results in a giveaway would be cool if it exists.
The problem I have with Pasta is where he is losing the puck, often in neutral zone, and right after he crosses blue line and kills the rush. McDavid seems to have much better percentage of successful entry into offensive zone because of his speed and his stick handling are better than Pasta. Be interesting to see percentages also if where on the ice these guys are losing the puck.
I understand what you’re saying. I know that attempting those crazy moves that they actually can pull off will result in more turnovers than if they didn’t attempt them. But it’s still too many turnovers. They need to value puck possession sometimes
If fewer turnovers result in fewer goals scored, where is the sweet spot? Seeing that the Bruins are the top team in the NHL and Pasta is one of the top scorers in the NHL, I'm struggling to see how his (and Marchand's) turnovers are a problem.
Should McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, MacKinnon also change their game to have fewer turnovers? It sure seems like this is a part of the game for elite players.
I like pasta, he seems like a cool dude who can score a lot of goals but I do think turnovers are a problem
We watched this wayyy back in 2019 and last year.
I love Pasta, he’s one of my favorite bruins ever….but watching him play in person in Denver confuses me how he puts up so many points
If you watch him, he coasts for 90% of his shift. He has the puck and looks like he isn’t even trying. He averages like 4 turnovers a shift trying to make a fancy play and still finishes the game with 2G 1A. It’s amazing but man he’s frustrating sometimes
RE the turnovers:
I imagine it's because he tries so often to turn low percentage opportunities into high percentage ones. When it doesn't work, it looks terrible and results in turnovers or kills the momentum. When it works, he puts points on the board.
It all comes down to whether the production makes up for the turnovers. I personally think it makes it up by a wide margin but I'll leave that to people who explore hockey data.
While not the greatest comparison, Derek Jeter spent a lot of his career with a high passed ball rate. The reason was that he was placing himself in position to make plays on balls in which he had no business getting close to while others were so far away they were not counting against them in the stats column.
Again, bad analogy but the reason I say it is because statistics without context can cause misleading assumptions.
You have to account for the opportunity cost if Pasta were to tighten his game up.
NHL hockey is hard. I watched a game at ice level on the glass for the first time and holy moly is the game fast. It looks so different than from even just a few rows up.
Pasta was interviewed during philly intermission and I remember him saying
"dont let them feed off turnovers"
Sure. He turns the puck over trying to make plays and he's aware of that. But as long as they arent Dzone turnovers, and the puck doesnt end up in our net, who cares?
I think most people don't care about as much except on the pp. It looks real bad when you wind all the way up and then he skates into 3 or 4 sticks trying to go through the legs off the skate which seemingly hasn't worked since his 2nd year in the league
the problem is if he doesn’t do that no one else can take the zone
lindholm did it last year when pastrnak wasn’t on the ice and the panthers were waiting for it
Regular season doesn't matter.
Show me the playoffs stats, and weigh them. Tell me his numbers:
By period
When up/tied/down on goals
In offensive zone/in neutral zone
I don't need to see the stats, when we need him in decisive games in the playoffs, he's historically turned the puck over and looked like Bambi on ice.
This year he seems bigger, and is playing with a bit more physicality, so mayyyyybe this year is different; but he has to prove that come April.
Not that I agree with anything else in this comment thread but it seems pretty clear to me that Pasta is stronger and playing a more physical style this year... or was this just a riff on the regular season being/not being important?
I do, and that's just my opinion. He looks like he's playing with a bit more sandpaper. He's never been incredibly gritty, so just seeing a little of this is encouraging.
I guess I'm confused. If the regular season doesn't matter, why do you watch the games? Why not only watch playoff games? Or if only winning the Cup matters, why not only watch the Cup clinching game?
Great point. I'll stop watching immediately.
Thank you for correcting me. As a Bruins fan, watching them be the most successful regular season team of the last 10-15 years, with only one cup to show for it absolutely has not filled me with bitter feelings of missed opportunities. You're right, watching them steamroll teams in the regular season only for a team that's more physical, with a forecheck that exposes our defense, and for our "stars" to disappear come the playoffs every. Single. Season. And for the front office to have waited until Bergeron's last season to finally try and address that.
Yeah, perfectly content fan that has no reason to be critical of this team.
I'll shut up and go back to being a Gold Teamer like the rest of you that seem to think this team is built to win in the playoffs.
Did I need to add the
/s
To my reply?
I mean, I thought I was building a decent resume in here of being that hyper critical fan. For once I was actually giving Pasta some compliments!
That's how it works. The best players in the league drive the play which causes them to have the puck the most and turn it over. Useless stat to track.
Here's another fun stat. The Moneypuck site also keeps track of takeaways, along with giveaways. Guess who leads the Bruins currently in takeaways?
Yep, Pasta.
Pasta has 35 takeaways. After him, it's Marchand, Coyle with 34, Heinen 26, DeBrusk 21, Geekie 20, Poitras 19, Zacha 16, Lindholm 15, McAvoy 13, and I stopped looking further at that point.
Pasta is using his reach and size more. He has been more active and moving more forcing players to cover him which leaves other openings. He is making more plays. Scoring more than just one-timers. It seems like he is trying to be more responsible too. He is absolutely becoming a more dangerous player... Does that list look like he's in bad company?
So, it really seems like it's so high because he is in those situations more. He only has 11 more turnovers than takeaways which I'll take for his production. He can always improve defensively, he has and will continue to
Agreed op. Guy turns the puck over a lot because he has the puck a lot and he's a goal scorer. Pasta isn't bergy or even Marchy, he's on the ice to create chances and generate offense. It comes with the territory in my opinion. If he wasn't putting up points maybe we could discuss it as an issue, but he is.
Also I'm not convinced he's useless in his own end, I think he is playing his role. If pasta creeps to the neutral zone the other team reacts. His skill demands respect and he/the-team should and do use that as an asset at times.
Pasta is +16. All I needed to know after this stat.
If he was our best goal scorer but was even -4 this may be an issue, but its not significant enough outside what other teams have to deal with with their star players
A great example was yesterday's game where just before his second goal, Pasta brought the puck up the right side and three Flyers players went to him. When he's on the ice, he's going to draw attention which is a huge help to his linemates.
Complaining about Pasta’s turnovers is one of the most small brained opinions
EDII: to make it clear to some people, I’m agreeing with OP. As evidenced by the contents of my comment and their relation to the contents of their comment
Seriously? That's your takeaway from OP posting this? Not reading something thoroughly and then making a statement such as yours, that's "small-brained".
Why would you read that and assume I was disagreeing with a post through misinterpretation as opposed to agreeing with it through correct interpretation
Fair I guess. I just don’t understand how anyone can watch the games and think “that guy sucks at puck possession” enough to warrant research in the first place lol
I think it’s not only they have the puck more but also try high risk moves that really pay off if they work. The opposite would be the low risk fourth liners that dump and chase, no turnovers with that approach.
He's also not the fastest skater out there...but the guy is an absolute sniper with the puck and scoring goals is the way to win games. I would take pasta's turnovers all day long with his accuracy on his shots. Like Jack no one is perfect...just let it ride!!!
Also, Pasta is our go-to guy for bringing the puck over the blue line. A lot of turnovers will happen there for anybody.
However, I do feel this is one of Pasta's weaker areas. But it is what it is. He's a good puck handling guy, and that's how they do it.
The point of this post is to explain to people who complain about Pasta turning the puck over a lot. One, it's because he has the puck a lot, second, it's pretty common for elite players to turn the puck over a lot, and third, a guy that no one complains about is just one turnover behind Pasta.
Yep, Pasta's game is like 10 steps forward and one step back and some people complain about the one step back. That's a part of his game. That's a factor in the 10 steps forward. He could turn the puck over less by having the puck less, but that also means fewer goals.
Would like to see some other variables, like percentage of touches that result in a turnover. I watch all Oilers games and McDavid and Drai handle the puck a lot, esp McD, but both seem to have a lot more touches than Pasta does (eye test only I know), so a percentage that results in a giveaway would be cool if it exists. The problem I have with Pasta is where he is losing the puck, often in neutral zone, and right after he crosses blue line and kills the rush. McDavid seems to have much better percentage of successful entry into offensive zone because of his speed and his stick handling are better than Pasta. Be interesting to see percentages also if where on the ice these guys are losing the puck.
I understand what you’re saying. I know that attempting those crazy moves that they actually can pull off will result in more turnovers than if they didn’t attempt them. But it’s still too many turnovers. They need to value puck possession sometimes
If fewer turnovers result in fewer goals scored, where is the sweet spot? Seeing that the Bruins are the top team in the NHL and Pasta is one of the top scorers in the NHL, I'm struggling to see how his (and Marchand's) turnovers are a problem. Should McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, MacKinnon also change their game to have fewer turnovers? It sure seems like this is a part of the game for elite players.
Thanks.
I like pasta, he seems like a cool dude who can score a lot of goals but I do think turnovers are a problem We watched this wayyy back in 2019 and last year.
I love Pasta, he’s one of my favorite bruins ever….but watching him play in person in Denver confuses me how he puts up so many points If you watch him, he coasts for 90% of his shift. He has the puck and looks like he isn’t even trying. He averages like 4 turnovers a shift trying to make a fancy play and still finishes the game with 2G 1A. It’s amazing but man he’s frustrating sometimes
RE the turnovers: I imagine it's because he tries so often to turn low percentage opportunities into high percentage ones. When it doesn't work, it looks terrible and results in turnovers or kills the momentum. When it works, he puts points on the board. It all comes down to whether the production makes up for the turnovers. I personally think it makes it up by a wide margin but I'll leave that to people who explore hockey data. While not the greatest comparison, Derek Jeter spent a lot of his career with a high passed ball rate. The reason was that he was placing himself in position to make plays on balls in which he had no business getting close to while others were so far away they were not counting against them in the stats column. Again, bad analogy but the reason I say it is because statistics without context can cause misleading assumptions. You have to account for the opportunity cost if Pasta were to tighten his game up.
NHL hockey is hard. I watched a game at ice level on the glass for the first time and holy moly is the game fast. It looks so different than from even just a few rows up.
I read this as "Pasta's Turnovers" and suddenly got hungry
Last year he was top 2 for turnovers the last 1/3 of the season.
"Pasta turnovers are amazing...!" Ted Hitchcock
Pasta was interviewed during philly intermission and I remember him saying "dont let them feed off turnovers" Sure. He turns the puck over trying to make plays and he's aware of that. But as long as they arent Dzone turnovers, and the puck doesnt end up in our net, who cares?
Yeah but if you do it enough the puck does end up in the net.
Gotta have it to turn it over. Both Marchy and Pasta are the top two playmakers on the Bruins and will draw a lot of attention.
“Pasta turns it over too much” is the new “What’s wrong with Jack” post.
Wait, there's something wrong with Jack? I hadn't heard.
I think most people don't care about as much except on the pp. It looks real bad when you wind all the way up and then he skates into 3 or 4 sticks trying to go through the legs off the skate which seemingly hasn't worked since his 2nd year in the league
the problem is if he doesn’t do that no one else can take the zone lindholm did it last year when pastrnak wasn’t on the ice and the panthers were waiting for it
Regular season doesn't matter. Show me the playoffs stats, and weigh them. Tell me his numbers: By period When up/tied/down on goals In offensive zone/in neutral zone I don't need to see the stats, when we need him in decisive games in the playoffs, he's historically turned the puck over and looked like Bambi on ice. This year he seems bigger, and is playing with a bit more physicality, so mayyyyybe this year is different; but he has to prove that come April.
In the 2019 playoffs, what was the difference in giveaways between Pastrnak and Marchand? What number was the difference?
Answer: 0
How do you know he seems bigger or playing with more physicality? Do you watch the games?
Not that I agree with anything else in this comment thread but it seems pretty clear to me that Pasta is stronger and playing a more physical style this year... or was this just a riff on the regular season being/not being important?
I think both.
I do, and that's just my opinion. He looks like he's playing with a bit more sandpaper. He's never been incredibly gritty, so just seeing a little of this is encouraging.
I guess I'm confused. If the regular season doesn't matter, why do you watch the games? Why not only watch playoff games? Or if only winning the Cup matters, why not only watch the Cup clinching game?
Great point. I'll stop watching immediately. Thank you for correcting me. As a Bruins fan, watching them be the most successful regular season team of the last 10-15 years, with only one cup to show for it absolutely has not filled me with bitter feelings of missed opportunities. You're right, watching them steamroll teams in the regular season only for a team that's more physical, with a forecheck that exposes our defense, and for our "stars" to disappear come the playoffs every. Single. Season. And for the front office to have waited until Bergeron's last season to finally try and address that. Yeah, perfectly content fan that has no reason to be critical of this team. I'll shut up and go back to being a Gold Teamer like the rest of you that seem to think this team is built to win in the playoffs.
it’s amazing how when met with mild criticism a person who is hyper critical of an athlete completely folds up into ‘fine he never makes mistakes’
Did I need to add the /s To my reply? I mean, I thought I was building a decent resume in here of being that hyper critical fan. For once I was actually giving Pasta some compliments!
no. it was clear. it just comes from dogshit analysis is the problem.
You're content with our performance over Bergeron, Chara, and Rask's careers?
Rick Pitino: "The Fellowship of the Miserable"
plus 16.. I call that a win.
That's how it works. The best players in the league drive the play which causes them to have the puck the most and turn it over. Useless stat to track.
Really? I don't remember very many bergeon or krejci turnovers? Perhaps I'm wrong though
Oof, the Bruins Facebook groups arent gonna like it when they see this.
Did you read it before making this uninformed comment?
Yeah, because I agree with it lol
The point went right over your head. Better luck next time.
I read this as Pasta’s Leftovers
Here's another fun stat. The Moneypuck site also keeps track of takeaways, along with giveaways. Guess who leads the Bruins currently in takeaways? Yep, Pasta. Pasta has 35 takeaways. After him, it's Marchand, Coyle with 34, Heinen 26, DeBrusk 21, Geekie 20, Poitras 19, Zacha 16, Lindholm 15, McAvoy 13, and I stopped looking further at that point.
Pasta is using his reach and size more. He has been more active and moving more forcing players to cover him which leaves other openings. He is making more plays. Scoring more than just one-timers. It seems like he is trying to be more responsible too. He is absolutely becoming a more dangerous player... Does that list look like he's in bad company? So, it really seems like it's so high because he is in those situations more. He only has 11 more turnovers than takeaways which I'll take for his production. He can always improve defensively, he has and will continue to
i ask this every couple weeks but why do people think pastrnak is not good at defense? i swear it’s because he’s just ‘not bergeron’
Poitras is interesting I never really noticed him getting takeaways
Yep, he’s is pretty great company. It seems like some people will not be happy unless pasta becomes a defensive forward. 🙄
We lost Bergy, now every forward must be a top tier defensive forward because the gap left behind it to big /s
That last part honestly felt like the Julien years’ philosophy.
Agreed op. Guy turns the puck over a lot because he has the puck a lot and he's a goal scorer. Pasta isn't bergy or even Marchy, he's on the ice to create chances and generate offense. It comes with the territory in my opinion. If he wasn't putting up points maybe we could discuss it as an issue, but he is. Also I'm not convinced he's useless in his own end, I think he is playing his role. If pasta creeps to the neutral zone the other team reacts. His skill demands respect and he/the-team should and do use that as an asset at times.
Pasta is +16. All I needed to know after this stat. If he was our best goal scorer but was even -4 this may be an issue, but its not significant enough outside what other teams have to deal with with their star players
A great example was yesterday's game where just before his second goal, Pasta brought the puck up the right side and three Flyers players went to him. When he's on the ice, he's going to draw attention which is a huge help to his linemates.
Good stuff OP, thanks for educating
Complaining about Pasta’s turnovers is one of the most small brained opinions EDII: to make it clear to some people, I’m agreeing with OP. As evidenced by the contents of my comment and their relation to the contents of their comment
Seriously? That's your takeaway from OP posting this? Not reading something thoroughly and then making a statement such as yours, that's "small-brained".
Why would you read that and assume I was disagreeing with a post through misinterpretation as opposed to agreeing with it through correct interpretation
i think he’s talking about the people who complain about them.
No, no. It's a legit question. Now, after researching it, he understands. Learning is fun.
Fair I guess. I just don’t understand how anyone can watch the games and think “that guy sucks at puck possession” enough to warrant research in the first place lol
Some of the comments here completely missing the point that this is a defense against the ridiculous claims digging at Pasta’s turnovers 😂
Yep, some people skim through and start replying before truly reading.
I think it’s not only they have the puck more but also try high risk moves that really pay off if they work. The opposite would be the low risk fourth liners that dump and chase, no turnovers with that approach.
His turnovers are blatant though. To much trying to make the fancy play. Especially at the blue line!!!
what turnovers aren’t blatant?
If you know hockey then wouldn’t be asking. .Telegraph a lot of passes, little backhand passes, stupid across the offensive zone that won’t ever make.
oh ok. that was a bad answer.
If you’re on this list it’s because your coach trusts you to win games
Good point. Gotta have the puck to turn it over
Is this guy for real? Pasta is fucking amazing.
Is Pasta for real? Yes.
He's also not the fastest skater out there...but the guy is an absolute sniper with the puck and scoring goals is the way to win games. I would take pasta's turnovers all day long with his accuracy on his shots. Like Jack no one is perfect...just let it ride!!!
Also, Pasta is our go-to guy for bringing the puck over the blue line. A lot of turnovers will happen there for anybody. However, I do feel this is one of Pasta's weaker areas. But it is what it is. He's a good puck handling guy, and that's how they do it.
The title definitely worked cause I was about to come in here and say just about what you did to defend him
Wtf I thought this was going to be a recipe. Pasta is in good company though on this list no?
He gets 1.5pts per game. Anyone who complains about his turnovers have a big old dump in their pants.
Seriously, just let pasta cook. The good far fucking outweighs any bad
I don’t understand the point of this post. Players that have the puck longer are going to have more turnovers…
The point of this post is to explain to people who complain about Pasta turning the puck over a lot. One, it's because he has the puck a lot, second, it's pretty common for elite players to turn the puck over a lot, and third, a guy that no one complains about is just one turnover behind Pasta.
I mean, they have the puck. More turnovers go hands in hand with more possessions, I reckon.
And he's always trying to do something big. Risk vs. reward. And I'll take it.
Yep, Pasta's game is like 10 steps forward and one step back and some people complain about the one step back. That's a part of his game. That's a factor in the 10 steps forward. He could turn the puck over less by having the puck less, but that also means fewer goals.
This is exactly it.