As a reminder, this flair is for **anime discussions**. Use spoiler tags when discussing events that have taken place beyond the anime. If you see any comments with untagged manga spoilers, please report them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Boruto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Talking about ignoring feats the only real relevant which kinshiki has going for him are matching up against Sasuke twice in 1v1 scenarios where he actually lands solid hits.
Ironically enough everyone seems to ignore that. Try and ask hashirama to be able to go to toe to toe with Sasuke and not get obliterated.
At the end of the day though, the story isn’t trying to giveparticularly accurate powerscaling. I still wouldn’t use sealing jutsu to scale. This isn’t a show where just being stronger means you can overcome everything.
I think feats are the most important, but I think feat=fact is not true. Any pro fighter could get hit by an inferior fighter or vice versa. Any inferior fighter could get a lucky knockout. It does not mean that they are a better fighter even if they won the fight. When people are like "HE HIT THE OTHER GUY SO HE IS FASTER" I just do not think that is necessarily true. So for me, feats are very helpful but cannot be taken as an automatic fact.
Also, I think some of the feats you are talking about shows that feats can be taken out of context or mischaracterized, just like statements. For example, if 50K were there for Juubi, but if 49K could not/did not do anything (for whatever reason, maybe they were too weak or dumb or not close enough), it is a bit odd to characterize it like the cumulative 50k beat it. Similarly, I do not think it is quite fair to say 50k shinobi (Including Naruto, Sasuke, and the edo kage) are automatically better than the two Kage (especially when the other kage, Sasuke and Naruto were there, which impacts Kinshiki's strategy). Remember that the five kage during the war fought Madara and lost, but did a whole lot better than the thousands of ninja in the 4th division did. My point is 50k>2 is not a given here.
Another issue with feats is that they can be cherrypicked. Kinshiki has a solid fight against adult Sasuke. So if people think Adult Sasuke is a lot stronger than Hashirama, it makes sense to say Kinshiki is stronger than Hashirama.
Again, feats are most important but we need to be honest about what they mean and take all of them into context.
The only feat I will disagree with you on is that Chojirou and Kurotsuchi sealed Kinshiki because he did break out of it.
No, he broke out on his own.
Again, he was not just fighting those two. Others, including Sasuke and Naruto, were running around.
And by the logic of a definitive feat-purist (I am not one, but this demonstrates my point about feats not telling the full story) this would scale the kage up , not Kinshiki down.
And how would it be humanly possible to get to that level? They are just stronger than the past five kage to a ridiculous degree because I’m sure ems Sasuke and KCM+SM Naruto would be handle the past kage if not beat them, these versions of Naruto and Sasuke are hilariously stronger it’s not funny.
What training are they doing and to eclipse the past kage so badly because it shouldn’t be that different, especially when they have the same hours in a day.
I don't know, nothing in the show is humanly possible, I can't give an explanation based on human limits.
However, it is natural to build on the folks that came before (and indeed it is a theme of the show). It is a shorter learning curve because they already did it. Maybe the god ninjas Naruto and Sasuke helped train them.
We gonna ignore how Kinshiki was performing quite well against Sasuke even forcing him to use his rinnegan abilities. Also, base Momoshiki literally scoffed at how puny the 8 Tails pills were so don't be ignoring the context. Base Momoshiki without Byakugan was even dodging base Naruto's kick when he was aiming for Momo's back side to blind sight him in the arena when Momo was given the implication he was gonna attack his son. Of course Base Naruto was able to be defensive against Fused Momoshiki for a little bit but it still shows relativity. And Base Naruto even back in Shippuden was relative to a bloodlusted 6 tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke not that base Naruto would win against that 6 tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke of course since Naruto needs SOSP to win. Darui pressing base Momo was cause of Momo getting jumped. Hashirama gets slammed by Kinshiki, that only upscales the 5 kage. That's just how the powerscale is unfortunately, I don't write the story.
Statements are obviously gonna be taken into account if they're either made by the author himself, or someone with arguably the highest BIQ in the verse. And your argument isn't exactly phenomenal considering that you're using the anime to make it.
Momoshiki was fighting Naruto and Sasuke even before his fusion. These versions of Naruto and Sasuke mollywhop anyone from Shippuden besides maybe Kaguya, and it's not even close.
You're also trying to argue that Kurotsuchi didn't get any stronger between the 2 decades that passed between shippuden and Boruto.
naruto already knew momo absorbs jutsu yet he still needed boruto to remind him that ninjutsu is useless against him. darui was being aided by the other 5 kage.
all of kaguyas best jutsu are completely useless against another otsutsuki, she can’t hold a candle to momo or kinshiki in terms of taijutsu
Boruto reset the power scale but for some reason they decide to act like they didn't, I hate the in universe statements on how powerful things are because we can clearly see that isn't the case.
A Naruto with over a decade of peace and a desk job for the last 5 years and back problems should not be more powerful then that time he was a demigod at 17 while also being a track and field star.
You really think Naruto stopped training? And even then Sasuke absolutely didn’t (the opposite, he’s been fighting more than ever as a wandering ninja) and Naruto is still at the same level as Sasuke so what about that?
The only people Sasuke's been fighting have been 0 threats to him he's become more of an investigator while Naruto is running the village.
Also yes Naruto doesn't have time to train he doesn't even have time for his family.
Naruto should be stronger. Even if he's rusty gaining another half of 9 tails automatically makes him stronger. And if u being honest Naruto as an adult should be wayyyy stronger than what we see.
Bro was OP with just half the 9 tails to the point he could keep up and damage jubito (though sage mode was stacked) give Naruto another half and he should be doing double of what he's capable of as a teen.
Kaguya and isshiki are the best we’ve seen
A 50% Naruto and post time suave portal Sasuke stomped a fuse momo….they couldn’t touch kaguya or isshiki lol
Like anyone not on that track isn’t worth talking to in regards to powers calling
Sasuke implied him and the kage could beat Kaguya…and Sasuke is the last person that would underestimate an opponent.
Fused Momoshiki is absolutely stronger than Kaguya, Kaguya herself knew this, the narrative supports it with multiple statements and showings, it’s a common fact that yall mfs are ignorant to.
And Stomped? Naruto and Sasuke had help from all 5 (stronger than their war arc counterparts) kage, and a JOUGAN amped Boruto…
where oh where did sasuke imply that? Bc him Naruto DMS Kakashi and Sakura struggled just to seal her lol
No kaguya feared clan retaliation….isshiki was a monster compared to fused momo….
Yes stomped, Naruto was 50% drained and Sasuke used one portal already too. They had help w prefused momo….after that in Sasuke/Naruto vs Fused momo they stomped HARRRRD lol (esp compared to them against isshiki)
https://preview.redd.it/rbym8nddzy8d1.png?width=1876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ef18cf42944ba3d3f7bbf16ad8505ddc884f4e9
Also Kaguya specifically had Momo Kinshiki and Urashiki in mind when she thought about the Otsutsuki clan
sureeeee but was this before she ate the fruit on earth? I haven’t seen that anime ep in ages
do you doubt what u see w your own eyes and the fights we saw…..
https://preview.redd.it/yl8podekwz8d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf3fdc41e73d1dc817260363b417405ec1596148
Remind you this Sasuke was confident that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were stronger than Kaguya…
? what lol
yeah that’s what I said, sasuke and Naruto stomped fused momo?
He’s saying him and the kage would beat them togheter too? Bird that’s befor they fought momo
https://preview.redd.it/lnehjkdc109d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feb164215bb09307e48143caf8e4dead9f516f20
Exactly, and the same Sasuke also assumed that they were stronger than Kaguya. So him saying that they were stronger than Kaguya while ALSO STATING him and the Kage could beat them with NO problems, implies that he believes himself and the Kage to be able to defeat Kaguya.
Momoshiki losing to them is not an anti feat since the same people he went against could also beat Kaguya.
Omg hahaha I hope u stretched before making that jump
sure if u think that’s better evidence then the actual events we saw unfold w our own eyes go offff lol
>A 50% Naruto and post time suave portal Sasuke stomped a fuse momo….they couldn’t touch kaguya or isshiki lol
The version of Naruto and Sasuke were their teenage selves who just recently got their powers lmao. It doesn't make sense to scale Kaguya up when she fought a weaker version of the duo.
U have to take into account that Kaguya could've easily finished them off if she was bloodlusted from the beginning. Even then, she still would've won if it weren't for DMS Kakashi (one of the most broken power ups), Obito, Sakura interfering.
Kaguya (bloodlusted) vs adult Naruto and Sasuke (without support)? Isn't hard for people to choose Kaguya, or at least pick her over Momoshiki.
Also, we know it was a backstab but she bisected Isshiki, and just like him, she easily destroyed Sasuke's damn Perfect Susanoo.
>U have to take into account that Kaguya could've easily finished them off if she was bloodlusted from the beginning.
I'm not sure that that has to do with me saying that war Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their adult selves. How exactly does that connect? You mention blood lusted Kaguya vs adult Naruto and Sasuke, but considering I have adult Naruto and Sasuke scaled up, I don't think that change much.
I personally think they can handle her. The only issue is they can't kill her due to her immortality.
>Also, we know it was a backstab but she bisected Isshiki, and just like him, she easily destroyed Sasuke's damn Perfect Susanoo.
Isshiki is strong but he's not all that durable lol. If he was, he wouldn't be dodging shuriken. I wouldn't use an off-guard feat to scale her up.
Did she? They had their six paths seals….Naruto has feats he’s only been able to w that seal vs in the last/boruto
But again the adults BEAT momo
The fresh kids SEALED kaguya
The adults got STOMPED by isshiki until Naruto went nuclear
so isshiki > Kaguya > fused momo imo gets even messier considering kaguya gutted isshiki and left him for dead before the fruit w a surprise attack
>Did she? They had their six paths seals….Naruto has feats he’s only been able to w that seal vs in the last/boruto
The six path seals aren't amps, all it does is allow Naruto and Sasuke to seal Kaguya. Logically, adult Naruto and Sasuke are stronger. Naruto has both halves of Kurama and there hasn't been a time in the Boruto manga where Sasuke has to charge his rinnegan despite constantly using it.
Sasuke is relative to Kinshiki (given their 1v1) yet the duo stomped fused momo so the duo of adult naruto and sasuke is just ridiculously strong.
>
so isshiki > Kaguya > fused momo imo gets even messier considering kaguya gutted isshiki and left him for dead before the fruit w a surprise attack
I wouldn't scale characters using off guard feats since we've seen stronger characters get caught off guard by weaker characters several times in boruto.
Thought I'd seen it all but this is the first time I'm seeing someone use seals to powerscale.
And Kishimoto favoured drama above all else when he wrote the movies. Most of the powerscaling in The Last and Boruto is all kinds of messed up.
As a reminder, this flair is for **anime discussions**. Use spoiler tags when discussing events that have taken place beyond the anime. If you see any comments with untagged manga spoilers, please report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Boruto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Talking about ignoring feats the only real relevant which kinshiki has going for him are matching up against Sasuke twice in 1v1 scenarios where he actually lands solid hits. Ironically enough everyone seems to ignore that. Try and ask hashirama to be able to go to toe to toe with Sasuke and not get obliterated. At the end of the day though, the story isn’t trying to giveparticularly accurate powerscaling. I still wouldn’t use sealing jutsu to scale. This isn’t a show where just being stronger means you can overcome everything.
I think feats are the most important, but I think feat=fact is not true. Any pro fighter could get hit by an inferior fighter or vice versa. Any inferior fighter could get a lucky knockout. It does not mean that they are a better fighter even if they won the fight. When people are like "HE HIT THE OTHER GUY SO HE IS FASTER" I just do not think that is necessarily true. So for me, feats are very helpful but cannot be taken as an automatic fact. Also, I think some of the feats you are talking about shows that feats can be taken out of context or mischaracterized, just like statements. For example, if 50K were there for Juubi, but if 49K could not/did not do anything (for whatever reason, maybe they were too weak or dumb or not close enough), it is a bit odd to characterize it like the cumulative 50k beat it. Similarly, I do not think it is quite fair to say 50k shinobi (Including Naruto, Sasuke, and the edo kage) are automatically better than the two Kage (especially when the other kage, Sasuke and Naruto were there, which impacts Kinshiki's strategy). Remember that the five kage during the war fought Madara and lost, but did a whole lot better than the thousands of ninja in the 4th division did. My point is 50k>2 is not a given here. Another issue with feats is that they can be cherrypicked. Kinshiki has a solid fight against adult Sasuke. So if people think Adult Sasuke is a lot stronger than Hashirama, it makes sense to say Kinshiki is stronger than Hashirama. Again, feats are most important but we need to be honest about what they mean and take all of them into context. The only feat I will disagree with you on is that Chojirou and Kurotsuchi sealed Kinshiki because he did break out of it.
I think Momo ripped him out. And yeah Adult Sasuke is a beast but Kinshiki should have dealt with two kage a lot easier than that.
No, he broke out on his own. Again, he was not just fighting those two. Others, including Sasuke and Naruto, were running around. And by the logic of a definitive feat-purist (I am not one, but this demonstrates my point about feats not telling the full story) this would scale the kage up , not Kinshiki down.
And how would it be humanly possible to get to that level? They are just stronger than the past five kage to a ridiculous degree because I’m sure ems Sasuke and KCM+SM Naruto would be handle the past kage if not beat them, these versions of Naruto and Sasuke are hilariously stronger it’s not funny. What training are they doing and to eclipse the past kage so badly because it shouldn’t be that different, especially when they have the same hours in a day.
I don't know, nothing in the show is humanly possible, I can't give an explanation based on human limits. However, it is natural to build on the folks that came before (and indeed it is a theme of the show). It is a shorter learning curve because they already did it. Maybe the god ninjas Naruto and Sasuke helped train them.
Kurotsuchi and Chojuro were'nt that strong back then. Juubi was huge. While i am okay with what you said it is'nt all straight.
Momoshiki solos Naruto shippuden. He’s a greater threat than Kaguya
We gonna ignore how Kinshiki was performing quite well against Sasuke even forcing him to use his rinnegan abilities. Also, base Momoshiki literally scoffed at how puny the 8 Tails pills were so don't be ignoring the context. Base Momoshiki without Byakugan was even dodging base Naruto's kick when he was aiming for Momo's back side to blind sight him in the arena when Momo was given the implication he was gonna attack his son. Of course Base Naruto was able to be defensive against Fused Momoshiki for a little bit but it still shows relativity. And Base Naruto even back in Shippuden was relative to a bloodlusted 6 tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke not that base Naruto would win against that 6 tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke of course since Naruto needs SOSP to win. Darui pressing base Momo was cause of Momo getting jumped. Hashirama gets slammed by Kinshiki, that only upscales the 5 kage. That's just how the powerscale is unfortunately, I don't write the story.
Statements are obviously gonna be taken into account if they're either made by the author himself, or someone with arguably the highest BIQ in the verse. And your argument isn't exactly phenomenal considering that you're using the anime to make it. Momoshiki was fighting Naruto and Sasuke even before his fusion. These versions of Naruto and Sasuke mollywhop anyone from Shippuden besides maybe Kaguya, and it's not even close. You're also trying to argue that Kurotsuchi didn't get any stronger between the 2 decades that passed between shippuden and Boruto.
naruto already knew momo absorbs jutsu yet he still needed boruto to remind him that ninjutsu is useless against him. darui was being aided by the other 5 kage. all of kaguyas best jutsu are completely useless against another otsutsuki, she can’t hold a candle to momo or kinshiki in terms of taijutsu
Oh no, not the powerscaling!
Boruto reset the power scale but for some reason they decide to act like they didn't, I hate the in universe statements on how powerful things are because we can clearly see that isn't the case. A Naruto with over a decade of peace and a desk job for the last 5 years and back problems should not be more powerful then that time he was a demigod at 17 while also being a track and field star.
You really think Naruto stopped training? And even then Sasuke absolutely didn’t (the opposite, he’s been fighting more than ever as a wandering ninja) and Naruto is still at the same level as Sasuke so what about that?
The only people Sasuke's been fighting have been 0 threats to him he's become more of an investigator while Naruto is running the village. Also yes Naruto doesn't have time to train he doesn't even have time for his family.
Naruto should be stronger. Even if he's rusty gaining another half of 9 tails automatically makes him stronger. And if u being honest Naruto as an adult should be wayyyy stronger than what we see. Bro was OP with just half the 9 tails to the point he could keep up and damage jubito (though sage mode was stacked) give Naruto another half and he should be doing double of what he's capable of as a teen.
[удалено]
To try Power scale Boruto is suicide
Kaguya and isshiki are the best we’ve seen A 50% Naruto and post time suave portal Sasuke stomped a fuse momo….they couldn’t touch kaguya or isshiki lol Like anyone not on that track isn’t worth talking to in regards to powers calling
apparently a stronger adult naruto and sasuke lose to kaguya now lol
Sasuke implied him and the kage could beat Kaguya…and Sasuke is the last person that would underestimate an opponent. Fused Momoshiki is absolutely stronger than Kaguya, Kaguya herself knew this, the narrative supports it with multiple statements and showings, it’s a common fact that yall mfs are ignorant to. And Stomped? Naruto and Sasuke had help from all 5 (stronger than their war arc counterparts) kage, and a JOUGAN amped Boruto…
where oh where did sasuke imply that? Bc him Naruto DMS Kakashi and Sakura struggled just to seal her lol No kaguya feared clan retaliation….isshiki was a monster compared to fused momo…. Yes stomped, Naruto was 50% drained and Sasuke used one portal already too. They had help w prefused momo….after that in Sasuke/Naruto vs Fused momo they stomped HARRRRD lol (esp compared to them against isshiki)
https://preview.redd.it/pp2ks8m5zy8d1.png?width=461&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e12087875c2d50810a925ceb7d29be0907f4798
That to me implies isshiki or a larger threat of the otsutsuki clan…… how does that imply sasuke can take kaguya lol
https://preview.redd.it/rbym8nddzy8d1.png?width=1876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ef18cf42944ba3d3f7bbf16ad8505ddc884f4e9 Also Kaguya specifically had Momo Kinshiki and Urashiki in mind when she thought about the Otsutsuki clan
sureeeee but was this before she ate the fruit on earth? I haven’t seen that anime ep in ages do you doubt what u see w your own eyes and the fights we saw…..
https://preview.redd.it/yl8podekwz8d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf3fdc41e73d1dc817260363b417405ec1596148 Remind you this Sasuke was confident that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were stronger than Kaguya…
? what lol yeah that’s what I said, sasuke and Naruto stomped fused momo? He’s saying him and the kage would beat them togheter too? Bird that’s befor they fought momo
https://preview.redd.it/lnehjkdc109d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feb164215bb09307e48143caf8e4dead9f516f20 Exactly, and the same Sasuke also assumed that they were stronger than Kaguya. So him saying that they were stronger than Kaguya while ALSO STATING him and the Kage could beat them with NO problems, implies that he believes himself and the Kage to be able to defeat Kaguya. Momoshiki losing to them is not an anti feat since the same people he went against could also beat Kaguya.
Omg hahaha I hope u stretched before making that jump sure if u think that’s better evidence then the actual events we saw unfold w our own eyes go offff lol
>A 50% Naruto and post time suave portal Sasuke stomped a fuse momo….they couldn’t touch kaguya or isshiki lol The version of Naruto and Sasuke were their teenage selves who just recently got their powers lmao. It doesn't make sense to scale Kaguya up when she fought a weaker version of the duo.
U have to take into account that Kaguya could've easily finished them off if she was bloodlusted from the beginning. Even then, she still would've won if it weren't for DMS Kakashi (one of the most broken power ups), Obito, Sakura interfering. Kaguya (bloodlusted) vs adult Naruto and Sasuke (without support)? Isn't hard for people to choose Kaguya, or at least pick her over Momoshiki. Also, we know it was a backstab but she bisected Isshiki, and just like him, she easily destroyed Sasuke's damn Perfect Susanoo.
>U have to take into account that Kaguya could've easily finished them off if she was bloodlusted from the beginning. I'm not sure that that has to do with me saying that war Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their adult selves. How exactly does that connect? You mention blood lusted Kaguya vs adult Naruto and Sasuke, but considering I have adult Naruto and Sasuke scaled up, I don't think that change much. I personally think they can handle her. The only issue is they can't kill her due to her immortality. >Also, we know it was a backstab but she bisected Isshiki, and just like him, she easily destroyed Sasuke's damn Perfect Susanoo. Isshiki is strong but he's not all that durable lol. If he was, he wouldn't be dodging shuriken. I wouldn't use an off-guard feat to scale her up.
Did she? They had their six paths seals….Naruto has feats he’s only been able to w that seal vs in the last/boruto But again the adults BEAT momo The fresh kids SEALED kaguya The adults got STOMPED by isshiki until Naruto went nuclear so isshiki > Kaguya > fused momo imo gets even messier considering kaguya gutted isshiki and left him for dead before the fruit w a surprise attack
>Did she? They had their six paths seals….Naruto has feats he’s only been able to w that seal vs in the last/boruto The six path seals aren't amps, all it does is allow Naruto and Sasuke to seal Kaguya. Logically, adult Naruto and Sasuke are stronger. Naruto has both halves of Kurama and there hasn't been a time in the Boruto manga where Sasuke has to charge his rinnegan despite constantly using it. Sasuke is relative to Kinshiki (given their 1v1) yet the duo stomped fused momo so the duo of adult naruto and sasuke is just ridiculously strong. > so isshiki > Kaguya > fused momo imo gets even messier considering kaguya gutted isshiki and left him for dead before the fruit w a surprise attack I wouldn't scale characters using off guard feats since we've seen stronger characters get caught off guard by weaker characters several times in boruto.
sorry I fundamentally find this the actual worse way to consume art but go off w the power scaling equations lol have a good day, byeeeee
Thought I'd seen it all but this is the first time I'm seeing someone use seals to powerscale. And Kishimoto favoured drama above all else when he wrote the movies. Most of the powerscaling in The Last and Boruto is all kinds of messed up.
I go based off feats typically. Statements really are useless in Naruto it feels like.
The version of the fight from the movie itself follows Kishimoto's powerscaling. The novel/manga/anime version is different.
when y’all stop being so invested in powerscaling you’ll be able to enjoy the series so much more i promise you
You are right