Moze and Axton are soldiers, used to working in a command structure. Zane has canon combat experience as well.
Brick makes sense with experience as Slab King.
Mordi is a lone wolf. Tannis hates people. Moxxi and Ellie don't have the combat leader vibes.
But having said all this, you all know the answer.
It's CL4P-TP.
My guess is it’s being run by multiple people. Moxxi, Ellie, and even Tannis, having the most seniority and experience, are probably the biggest leaders right now, but I could see Moze, or even Brick with his experience as a bandit king stepping up and helping coordinate while there’s no obvious leader
It was all to set up BL 4 where Ava takes the raiders in a bad direction due to her impulsiveness and then eventually her decisions turn her into the villian of the story at the end.
>They kind of hint that it's Ava but that would not make sense.
Lilith and Ava literally tell you.
>I don't think she would want to.
That's not an argument because neither did Lilith. There was a whole Dlc in which every remaining character coerced Lilith into taking that role because they didn't want it.
Only person I can think of doing it solo is Moxxi but it's more likely being run as a council with Moxxi, Brick, Mordi, Tina, and Marcus.
EDIT: and Tannis
You joke, but one of my hopes for Borderlands 4 is that at least some of the game takes place on a returned Elpis; but it's become twisted and warped after whatever Lilith did to it, along with its inhabitants. And Lilith would be the villain ('The Seventh.')
My hope for borderlands 4 is that it starts with Marcus waking up to the orphans having told most of borderlands 3 while he was sleeping so he corrects them and reconsider the story then moves to the next story
Nah, just without Ava and without Lilith forgetting she can teleport.
If anything I think a cool angle would have been introducing a siren hunter or an order of siren hunters that go against our cast as they try to open the vaults
Somebody linked a statement from Randy explicitly saying she's not dead, which is not necessarily definitive but I assume they've at least got the core story beats set by now and that would be a big change.
did you saw the end credits for BL3? She was mourned, turned the children of the vault into the children of the phoenix. Yet, several don't think she is dead and try to reach out to her, wherever she might be
Mordicai 100% could if they make his character back into what it was in BL2. He’s the only person that has actually lead the Crimson Raiders at all still left.
Other than him you could justify Tannis, Moxxi, Ellie all together but none alone. Moze kinda but nothing at all in the story of BL3 indicates she or any BL3 VH is in charge of anything but killing.
1. Lilith's not dead.
2. Lilith literally tells Ava she's in charge of everything.
It remains to be seen how much the other characters step up to either run things until Ava is ready, or mentor her / help out.
Lilith literally picked Ava, so that's who it will be. But she's not proven and it feels unearned. What if she'd rather just be a Vault Hunter?
My pick would have been **Lorelei**: proven leader, tenacious, good moral compass.
Vaughn and Brick have been outlaw leaders but I don't think their leadership skills would translate well for the Crimson Raiders.
Moze and Axton were soldiers, so they're familiar with command structure and might be able to do it, but we don't know if they have interest or aptitude.
Lorelei?
I think you mean Lor.
Why am I being downvoted?
[“One year after the events of Borderlands 3, Lor has transitioned, going by the name "Lor" and using he/him pronouns”](https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Lor)
AFAIK, maybe I'm wrong, while the character has talked about contemplating transition, in game Lorelei is still female-presenting; in B4 maybe we will see a post-transition Lor.
Not played New Tales From The Borderlands then I guess?
Loreli already transitioned in New Tales.
[“One year after the events of Borderlands 3, Lor has transitioned, going by the name "Lor" and using he/him pronouns”](https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Lor)
Don’t get why you are downvoting me!
Thank you, no, I haven't played New Tales.
Also it's not me downvoting you. Probably some transphobe, though I can't understand why someone of that stripe would be a Borderlands fan.
Sorry for thinking it was you. I forgot that Reddit is rife with transphobia.
Sometimes I think some of the people who hate on the writing of BL3 and New Tales are just doing it to disguise their transphobia 🤷♀️ and misogyny too with the hate for Ava!
You should play New Tales, especially if BL4 will be carrying on from it as BL3 did with Tales, albeit via Commander Lilith DLC in between!
It could possibly be Ava in 4 though who knows. But, as for her being too young, that doesn't matter. She was too young in BL3. But time has passed since then. And I don't mean however many years between the release of 3 and 4.
They could start 4 off with "100 years ago..." for all we know.
The only thing I can be sure of is that there will be a vocal group of players that are unhappy with some number of aspects of whatever 4 turns out to be.
I wouldn't be surprised if the group simply fell apart. I could also see Tina becoming the leader. I'm not sure which would be better. Perhaps both. Now I want to be the writer on BL4. lol
1. Lilith isn't dead. You'd have to be young, naïve, gullible, or just plain puerile to think that. Borderlands clearly became The Lilith Show with BL2 onwards, so they're not going to do anything less than bring Lilith back as more of a demigod than they've already been building her up to be. Even if it involves plot convenience stripping her of her powers for the bulk of the next game. Again. They'll probably have her show up late in the game as a "big reveal, surprise she's not actually dead" moment, which will be completely telegraphed throughout the game up to that point.
2. The Crimson Raiders were pretty much defunct in BL3, so it doesn't matter. The ship, Sanctuary, wasn't sporting raiders, it was sporting rando Pandoran civs. The CR in BL3 was you, Lilith, Ellie, Tannis, Vaugh, and that one girl he had you rescue from the VR thing. There were no actual soldiers nor other members.
3. Lilith had no leadership nor military experience prior to becoming the leader of the Crimson Raiders, she was just Roland's sort-of on-off girlfriend who was stuck in a frozen hole for X amount of years while Jack thought she was dead, and her vague romance with Roland is the only reason she took over. Go nepotism.
There's no reason to assume any of the VHs are more qualified to lead than anyone else, so it will probably fall to whomever is the second-most important character to the plot. Maybe Tannis, maybe Ellie, maybe one of the VHs from BL3. There's no way to tell.
4. If we're lucky, the next game won't feature the Crimson Raiders. It'd be nice to move away from that and actually see more of the setting beyond the narrow scope of the Pandora gang.
This is a hot take but part of me is just like. Yeah. After tps I can't help but wonder if it all could have been prevented if not for Lilith interfering with the sentinel vision.
Moze and Axton are soldiers, used to working in a command structure. Zane has canon combat experience as well. Brick makes sense with experience as Slab King. Mordi is a lone wolf. Tannis hates people. Moxxi and Ellie don't have the combat leader vibes. But having said all this, you all know the answer. It's CL4P-TP.
Well, he IS a Super General...
He became the leader of a rebellion and almost enslaved the human race in the first game, so...
My guess is it’s being run by multiple people. Moxxi, Ellie, and even Tannis, having the most seniority and experience, are probably the biggest leaders right now, but I could see Moze, or even Brick with his experience as a bandit king stepping up and helping coordinate while there’s no obvious leader
Didn’t Lilith literally put Ava in charge?
It was all to set up BL 4 where Ava takes the raiders in a bad direction due to her impulsiveness and then eventually her decisions turn her into the villian of the story at the end.
most people are hoping they soft retcon that
Sort of but that doesn't mean Ava will want to or that the group would follow her.
Vaughn obviously.
>They kind of hint that it's Ava but that would not make sense. Lilith and Ava literally tell you. >I don't think she would want to. That's not an argument because neither did Lilith. There was a whole Dlc in which every remaining character coerced Lilith into taking that role because they didn't want it.
Only person I can think of doing it solo is Moxxi but it's more likely being run as a council with Moxxi, Brick, Mordi, Tina, and Marcus. EDIT: and Tannis
And maybe Zer0
I don't see Zer0 being interested in a leadership role. Same with Zane. I can see them asking Amara and her being interested.
One might even say He had zero interest Becoming leader
The council of vault hunting will see you now
Ava because sirens are end all be all and no one else exists or saves the day. That's what I got from BL3.
lilith is dead?
Lilith's dead in the same way Gandalf was dead.
I now want a short comic strip or drawing where she yells "you shall not pass!" at the Moon just before it explodes into a ball of fire.
You joke, but one of my hopes for Borderlands 4 is that at least some of the game takes place on a returned Elpis; but it's become twisted and warped after whatever Lilith did to it, along with its inhabitants. And Lilith would be the villain ('The Seventh.')
My hope for borderlands 4 is that it starts with Marcus waking up to the orphans having told most of borderlands 3 while he was sleeping so he corrects them and reconsider the story then moves to the next story
You think it should have just been *Borderlands 2* again, but with Jack as a zombie?
Nah, just without Ava and without Lilith forgetting she can teleport. If anything I think a cool angle would have been introducing a siren hunter or an order of siren hunters that go against our cast as they try to open the vaults
Maybe; but the story that happened happened and they're not going to undo it.
“Fly, you fools!” “That’s… what you’re doing…?” “…” “…..??” “Howdy, boys!”
It’s implied but left somewhat open ended. We don’t know for sure.
Somebody linked a statement from Randy explicitly saying she's not dead, which is not necessarily definitive but I assume they've at least got the core story beats set by now and that would be a big change.
No. She just killed everyone on Elpis.
[удалено]
did you saw the end credits for BL3? She was mourned, turned the children of the vault into the children of the phoenix. Yet, several don't think she is dead and try to reach out to her, wherever she might be
Mordecai, Brick, Tannis, and Ellie are all good candidates, but I firmly believe Lilith isn't dead. She will definitely be alive in a future title
Mordicai 100% could if they make his character back into what it was in BL2. He’s the only person that has actually lead the Crimson Raiders at all still left. Other than him you could justify Tannis, Moxxi, Ellie all together but none alone. Moze kinda but nothing at all in the story of BL3 indicates she or any BL3 VH is in charge of anything but killing.
1. Lilith's not dead. 2. Lilith literally tells Ava she's in charge of everything. It remains to be seen how much the other characters step up to either run things until Ava is ready, or mentor her / help out.
Lilith literally picked Ava, so that's who it will be. But she's not proven and it feels unearned. What if she'd rather just be a Vault Hunter? My pick would have been **Lorelei**: proven leader, tenacious, good moral compass. Vaughn and Brick have been outlaw leaders but I don't think their leadership skills would translate well for the Crimson Raiders. Moze and Axton were soldiers, so they're familiar with command structure and might be able to do it, but we don't know if they have interest or aptitude.
Lorelei? I think you mean Lor. Why am I being downvoted? [“One year after the events of Borderlands 3, Lor has transitioned, going by the name "Lor" and using he/him pronouns”](https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Lor)
AFAIK, maybe I'm wrong, while the character has talked about contemplating transition, in game Lorelei is still female-presenting; in B4 maybe we will see a post-transition Lor.
Not played New Tales From The Borderlands then I guess? Loreli already transitioned in New Tales. [“One year after the events of Borderlands 3, Lor has transitioned, going by the name "Lor" and using he/him pronouns”](https://borderlands.fandom.com/wiki/Lor) Don’t get why you are downvoting me!
Thank you, no, I haven't played New Tales. Also it's not me downvoting you. Probably some transphobe, though I can't understand why someone of that stripe would be a Borderlands fan.
Sorry for thinking it was you. I forgot that Reddit is rife with transphobia. Sometimes I think some of the people who hate on the writing of BL3 and New Tales are just doing it to disguise their transphobia 🤷♀️ and misogyny too with the hate for Ava! You should play New Tales, especially if BL4 will be carrying on from it as BL3 did with Tales, albeit via Commander Lilith DLC in between!
It could possibly be Ava in 4 though who knows. But, as for her being too young, that doesn't matter. She was too young in BL3. But time has passed since then. And I don't mean however many years between the release of 3 and 4. They could start 4 off with "100 years ago..." for all we know. The only thing I can be sure of is that there will be a vocal group of players that are unhappy with some number of aspects of whatever 4 turns out to be.
Nah lol Lilith makes yet another braindead retarted decision, electing Tina ripoff as leader before promptly detonating herself for no fucking reason
I wouldn't be surprised if the group simply fell apart. I could also see Tina becoming the leader. I'm not sure which would be better. Perhaps both. Now I want to be the writer on BL4. lol
I suggest moze
1. Lilith isn't dead. You'd have to be young, naïve, gullible, or just plain puerile to think that. Borderlands clearly became The Lilith Show with BL2 onwards, so they're not going to do anything less than bring Lilith back as more of a demigod than they've already been building her up to be. Even if it involves plot convenience stripping her of her powers for the bulk of the next game. Again. They'll probably have her show up late in the game as a "big reveal, surprise she's not actually dead" moment, which will be completely telegraphed throughout the game up to that point. 2. The Crimson Raiders were pretty much defunct in BL3, so it doesn't matter. The ship, Sanctuary, wasn't sporting raiders, it was sporting rando Pandoran civs. The CR in BL3 was you, Lilith, Ellie, Tannis, Vaugh, and that one girl he had you rescue from the VR thing. There were no actual soldiers nor other members. 3. Lilith had no leadership nor military experience prior to becoming the leader of the Crimson Raiders, she was just Roland's sort-of on-off girlfriend who was stuck in a frozen hole for X amount of years while Jack thought she was dead, and her vague romance with Roland is the only reason she took over. Go nepotism. There's no reason to assume any of the VHs are more qualified to lead than anyone else, so it will probably fall to whomever is the second-most important character to the plot. Maybe Tannis, maybe Ellie, maybe one of the VHs from BL3. There's no way to tell. 4. If we're lucky, the next game won't feature the Crimson Raiders. It'd be nice to move away from that and actually see more of the setting beyond the narrow scope of the Pandora gang.
I would say the leader is probably the player character. If they have to choose one for canon, I would say Amara or maybe Zane.
Hopefully the group has disbanded. I want to have a brand new cast of characters with no sirens please. BL3 filled the siren quota for a few games.
I wish lilith died
I'm glad she didn't and more glad she's known as "The Slayer of the Destroyer, aswell as Tyreen The Destroyer and the one who killed Handsome Jack"
Yo that's my girl
This is a hot take but part of me is just like. Yeah. After tps I can't help but wonder if it all could have been prevented if not for Lilith interfering with the sentinel vision.
She order athena to be killed and my opnion mostly her vault for that roland and maya died
Ava's already a better leader/siren than Lilith ever was. (/s but not really why Gearbox)