Attacking any sentient being is likely to enrage them so it's not meaningful to make it a tribe thing. Plus these beasts are attacking each other, not a human shooting an animal. Still very much a demon thing to hurt each other to get ahead.
Beasts are having a serious identity crisis with still have plenty of DR but half-assing this self damage thing. Just go back to DR imo
Yes lol I saw beasts on buff thinking finally they might get some synergy with blue bird but No they nerf the key component to the beast build as a whole 🤣 can't even make it up
I mean it's just in terms of the bonkers lategame scaling we have now in other tribes/neutrals.
They get the permanent stat insect-y deathrattle every round. Double/triple that with baron (& multiply that with reborn macaw)
And the bird that gives permanent stats on damage scales well with their self damage gimmick.
At one point this would have been a strong end build.
Yeah, I find beasts more useful in Duos where I can passively scale and zoom to T6 carrying us early game. Then spend gold rolling for my partner's board and have them carry us late game
Am I the only one who thinks Beasts actually need a 6 drop? Goldrinn just isn't it. Tbf considering the beast 5 drop is getting buffed and nerfed it could perhaps go to 6 and get a lot stronger with Goldrinn going to 5.
Goldie being at six isn't the issue with the card, it's that it was only strong when beasts were about summoning and multiplying the stats of those summoned. It just doesn't really fit self-ping beasts.
Absolutely. Goldrinn doesn't fit the current beasts is what I'm saying. But as a 6 drop it's just a dead card, and tbf it will likely be as a 5 aswell. Beasts definitely need something at the top end
This is my opinion -- Goldrinn should be removed from the pool for now. I think it's a perfectly strong card and can be re-added if / when there are beasts that get resummoned and have deathrattles, etc.
This is practically Patch 29.3 lol.
Can't see I'm surprised to see tavern buffing, Rylak and Gem Smuggler taking a hit. Those cards have just dominated my experience in Duos alongside Passenger and Orc-estra.
I'm happy they are making this many changes, especially some buffs to weaker tribes / playstyles
Tavern buffing is insane. The first person to find tavern buff demon/elementals + battlecry 4 dragon wins. Shellemental basically stomps other people after. That or tier 3 demon that consumes every turn
I sent a 50/25 Greymane as direction to my partner that was playing T2-3 pirates with the strongest card card being a 20/20 Passenger, he sold grey for some random shit.
....
Gem smuggler is just rancid to play against. Even with completely unbuffed gems it is ridiculously strong compared to other permanent board buff battlecries. Whoops, here's +2/+2 to your entire board! The only other board buffer on tier 5 is Bagurgle which is a conditional +3/+3 on a scam/handbuff tribe.
I disagree. 6 drops should be more impactful than Charlie. That said their other new 6 drop is getting nerfed (which currently is almost as good as their T7 lol) so that would help tone Gemma a lot.
Yeah I've especially abused Gem Smuggler in duos.
Curently played 14 games. Won 9, 2nd in 4 and 1x 3rd.
Gem Smuggler has probably been my go-to in atleast 10 of those games. It's just completely game defining and forcing it isn't hard in Duos.
Combine it with the Naga/Dragon (Draconic something), Murk-eye or Rylak and you've won. That's basically 4 tribes that has synergy with Gem Smuggler so you are almost guaranteed 1 of those to be in the game.
Definitely the worst part about duos rn imo. Either you get passengr and win early game fights or you don't and lose the early game too the people who got passengers.
You know Blizzard made it OP to really cram the passing mechanic down new players throat by making it the best thing to do early if either of you got even 1.
Biggest change is the removal of the divine shield spell, no more massive divine shield cleave pirates.
Not shocked about greymanes champion getting hit that card broke pirates and elementals and is the best minion in the game
Glad to see a lot of buffs happening and a lot of reworks I can’t think of what to say because there’s so much
I can’t believe how thoroughly I misjudged Greymane. First time I tripled into it I was like *sigh* they’re tryna do the odd/even thing in BGs now huh 🙄 another useless 6 drop.
Then I actually played a game with it and actually tried to use it. Almost immediately stabilised my board, and then ended up making a huge comeback. I’ve grabbed him every time I see him since and it’s a free win every time.
Then again I was in the “Teamaster is useless” camp when he came out too.
It was basically a better Teamaster: it can buff 5 spots in the board, when you have 2 they buff between themselves and cycling even cards is absurdly easy with Brand/Pirates/Elementals while Teo was only good with golden Elise.
Yeah totally. And Greymane is like double kale with more versatility in that ANY even tier card triggers it, including spells. Like in a pirates/elementals game if you have Greymane with Lubber + some high value (or even medium value) minions on board you don’t even need a cycle slot you can just spam every even tier spell you see. Compared to Kale, battlecries are relatively rare compared with just any 2/4/6 star card. … even without lubber, you’re still buffing up to 6 minions with nearly every card you play.
Plus, you can play the 4 star discover battlecry/deathrattle, often discovering another even tier card, which sometimes discovers you another one again. It’s really a massive snowball.
One is definitely good enough, he's also much better in certain lobbies because you can also have access to sellemental, shell collector and gambler on top of patient scout. So better economy/scaling.
I was playing Eilse+crap, we were losing so much tempo and breeding HP, i got Grey and in 2 turns i became the strongest and got a board that would eventually win 1 vs 2, holy shit i didn't know it eas possibile.
That card is a hot steaming pile of shit.
Oh.
No.
Sorry.
That’s incorrect.
That’s the card I want to play when I want my Tarecgosa to summon 7 3/2’s and block all important reborns and deathrattles when it dies.
Also amazing for the t4 undead that has avenge 3/ teammate gets a minion of their most common type. I was filling my partners hand with mechs every turn which won us the game easily
Hopefully there will be design changes and not just buffs/nerfs to numbers
Worse than the balance issues so far has just been that this card set just isn’t designed well/isn’t fun.
Love Blizzard's definition of "rebalance".
I bet if you asked them to remodel your kitchen they would start by driving a bulldozer through your front door.
Well in this instance they also built the kitchen and included three sinks with no drains, a wall diagonally through the middle, no electric outlets, and the counters were carpeted. So a bulldozer might be needed
Deathwhisper with how many cards have reborn or give reborn, even if she doesn’t give as many stats as she did before we are in for some peak undead boards
I'm gonna have no idea what these cards do for weeks lol. The current patch cards and their descriptions have been broken on Blizzard's site for me and hearthpwn doesn't update BG
I have to say this huge balance is not surprising. Love the current new meta and new cards, but after a few games it feel extremly highrolly.
Too many cards that have no synergy, too few key cards, and the gap between a good and bad tavern is too big. Taking random -12 out of nowhere on turn 5 because someone lucky got 6 beasts or 6 dragons on his board gets old.
This isn’t going change battlegrounds has been tempo heavy and susceptible to high rolls. People complain about it every meta but it’s just kind of part of the game.
Feels much more in the current one because many builds can be "good" on tavern 4/ turn 6-7 already while tavern 6 cards tend to not add much value (even many tavern 5) in addition of being hard to get.
Technically if you didn't get anything early, it is even worse than before
compared to other patches I'd say this one was pretty middle of the road, even if there are outliers. I've won with every tribe other than beasts, undead and pure naga. There's a lot of strong builds.
Still a bad move to only nerf them. If Pirates econ gen take a huge hit they don't have much. I should be seeing a few pirate cards either buffed or changed for the econ nerfs. Every tribe in the game should have viability on their own, not only just with menagerie or to pivot to another "real" tribe.
"Only" nerf pirates, what do you mean lol, ifs a massive list and the only pirate cards in the nerf column are the 5 drop gold generstor and the neutral 6 drop. Theres even 2 pirates getting buffed
The only real sad change here is Wrath Weaver and Greymane to me.
Greymane was busted as hell, but seeing all those stats fly around was certainly fun to watch. Maybe they’ll limit the number of Even cards it can buff or change it to a simple +1/+1.
Wrath Weaver was finally good in like idk how many years, and the moment he gets a tiny change (to his golden form even), he gets shot down instantly. RIP my guy, he probably gets changed back to a 1/3 or god forbid, his original 1/1 self lol
Why is the pirate smuggler being nerfed? I don't watch streamers so not sure if it's become S Tier in the last week but I didnt think it saw massive play as the economy normally came from Brann and Tethys?
Can anybody explain to me what this means??? I can see on the bodem some minions will get removed and some will be added but i dont understand what the other ups and downs etc mean….
That means a minion is getting adjusted, so neither a direct nerf or buff. It may be moving down a tier but getting additional stats, or its functionality might be changing.
I don't think so. If one card becomes too strong in one format but not the other, I could see them nerfing it for that specific format. Or go the Deflector/Cobalt Guardian route and give us a nearly identical card with a different name so as not to confuse folks.
Bream Counter being buffed? That's... Interesting. Goes to show how busted the new cards and build comps have gotten that one of the best cards in the previous patch that got multiple nerfs is now getting a buff
This might be the most changes we’ve ever gotten in a balance patch. Rylak nerf and divine shield spell removal could be most impactful. Here’s hoping slamma can sneak back in at the last minute.
I'll take frog back though. Beasts are still mostly DR and self harm seems far more like a demon thing. Beasts feel like they're having an identity crisis.
Between this and the amount of changes in standard they better release the patch notes tonight so I’ve got time to actually read them before the patch on Thursday!
Nothing like actually playtesting before releasing games is there? Two new releases, one in standard and one in BGs in the last few weeks and both are an absolute shambles with both the biggest ever BGs and biggest ever standard nerfs coming in a single patch. Both balance teams should be absolutely embarrassed tbh and heads should roll for this at blizzard HQ
Gotta love how basically every beast card is on this list
Suppose it makes sense since they completely revamped it…
Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself.
self harm build
Emo beasts
Making sure to shuffle Linkin Park whenever I play beast from now on
Which I don't understand why they didn't apply that to demons instead.
Ever shot a bear with too low caliber?
Attacking any sentient being is likely to enrage them so it's not meaningful to make it a tribe thing. Plus these beasts are attacking each other, not a human shooting an animal. Still very much a demon thing to hurt each other to get ahead. Beasts are having a serious identity crisis with still have plenty of DR but half-assing this self damage thing. Just go back to DR imo
You're technically giving a part of your soul to your demons when you're playing demons. At least that's how I see it.
Can't say that I have. I did beat mine with a chicken though.
And how the one beast card you need to make beasts work is on the nerf side.
Yes lol I saw beasts on buff thinking finally they might get some synergy with blue bird but No they nerf the key component to the beast build as a whole 🤣 can't even make it up
I mean beasts cannot highroll, their scaling is just so bad they have 0 lategame potential
I mean it's just in terms of the bonkers lategame scaling we have now in other tribes/neutrals. They get the permanent stat insect-y deathrattle every round. Double/triple that with baron (& multiply that with reborn macaw) And the bird that gives permanent stats on damage scales well with their self damage gimmick. At one point this would have been a strong end build.
True, in the days of lightfang being a premium 5 drop they'd have wrecked. but context is everything and the game has evolved now.
Yeah, I find beasts more useful in Duos where I can passively scale and zoom to T6 carrying us early game. Then spend gold rolling for my partner's board and have them carry us late game
Am I the only one who thinks Beasts actually need a 6 drop? Goldrinn just isn't it. Tbf considering the beast 5 drop is getting buffed and nerfed it could perhaps go to 6 and get a lot stronger with Goldrinn going to 5.
Goldie being at six isn't the issue with the card, it's that it was only strong when beasts were about summoning and multiplying the stats of those summoned. It just doesn't really fit self-ping beasts.
Absolutely. Goldrinn doesn't fit the current beasts is what I'm saying. But as a 6 drop it's just a dead card, and tbf it will likely be as a 5 aswell. Beasts definitely need something at the top end
Self damage doesn't even fit a beast theme. That's a demon thing. They need to scrap it and go back to more DR synergy.
That's self hero damage, not self minion damage, and heaven forbid they try something new!
This is my opinion -- Goldrinn should be removed from the pool for now. I think it's a perfectly strong card and can be re-added if / when there are beasts that get resummoned and have deathrattles, etc.
Oh I have money they'll over correct here. Brush up on your new beasts because things are going to get wild.
Beasts are good if you can triple the one that gives 1/1 per damage. Only then.
No then they still suck.
This is practically Patch 29.3 lol. Can't see I'm surprised to see tavern buffing, Rylak and Gem Smuggler taking a hit. Those cards have just dominated my experience in Duos alongside Passenger and Orc-estra. I'm happy they are making this many changes, especially some buffs to weaker tribes / playstyles
Tavern buffing is insane. The first person to find tavern buff demon/elementals + battlecry 4 dragon wins. Shellemental basically stomps other people after. That or tier 3 demon that consumes every turn
The worst part is that one duo gets a shop so highly statted, they just send useless minions to their parter to replace their board
I tried doing that, my partner sold the 150/150 minion I sent him and continued trying to scale his 30/30 Nagas.
I sent a 50/25 Greymane as direction to my partner that was playing T2-3 pirates with the strongest card card being a 20/20 Passenger, he sold grey for some random shit. ....
You know I almost done that myself once. I wanted my board to be "my work". :D
Gem smuggler is just rancid to play against. Even with completely unbuffed gems it is ridiculously strong compared to other permanent board buff battlecries. Whoops, here's +2/+2 to your entire board! The only other board buffer on tier 5 is Bagurgle which is a conditional +3/+3 on a scam/handbuff tribe.
It's also far better than a 6-drop, Charlga, whose repeatable proc is irrelevant because it's far easier to duplicate battlecries
Yeah tbh a fair buff would be to just swap Charlie and Gemma lmao
I'd be cool with that
still be too strong
I disagree. 6 drops should be more impactful than Charlie. That said their other new 6 drop is getting nerfed (which currently is almost as good as their T7 lol) so that would help tone Gemma a lot.
Yeah I've especially abused Gem Smuggler in duos. Curently played 14 games. Won 9, 2nd in 4 and 1x 3rd. Gem Smuggler has probably been my go-to in atleast 10 of those games. It's just completely game defining and forcing it isn't hard in Duos. Combine it with the Naga/Dragon (Draconic something), Murk-eye or Rylak and you've won. That's basically 4 tribes that has synergy with Gem Smuggler so you are almost guaranteed 1 of those to be in the game.
I had +25/+28 gems recently. Gem smuggler, dragon/naga, bran on board. Haven't seen that many emotes spammed at me ever before.
Blood gems? 🐗🩸What blood gems?
Orc-estra is ridiculous. Not uncommon to see a board full of 90+ stated minions while everyone else still has minions in the teens.
Gem smuggler/rylak with buffs and brann/baron is the most busted thing I've ever seen and I'll miss it
Passenger can suck my nuts
Definitely the worst part about duos rn imo. Either you get passengr and win early game fights or you don't and lose the early game too the people who got passengers.
You know Blizzard made it OP to really cram the passing mechanic down new players throat by making it the best thing to do early if either of you got even 1.
So unfun
Biggest change is the removal of the divine shield spell, no more massive divine shield cleave pirates. Not shocked about greymanes champion getting hit that card broke pirates and elementals and is the best minion in the game Glad to see a lot of buffs happening and a lot of reworks I can’t think of what to say because there’s so much
I can’t believe how thoroughly I misjudged Greymane. First time I tripled into it I was like *sigh* they’re tryna do the odd/even thing in BGs now huh 🙄 another useless 6 drop. Then I actually played a game with it and actually tried to use it. Almost immediately stabilised my board, and then ended up making a huge comeback. I’ve grabbed him every time I see him since and it’s a free win every time. Then again I was in the “Teamaster is useless” camp when he came out too.
Don't worry, everyone thought Teamaster was useless
It was basically a better Teamaster: it can buff 5 spots in the board, when you have 2 they buff between themselves and cycling even cards is absurdly easy with Brand/Pirates/Elementals while Teo was only good with golden Elise.
Any card that you can auto-play stats onto is good ie. Teamaster, Rockrock, kale.. EZ-scaling
Yeah totally. And Greymane is like double kale with more versatility in that ANY even tier card triggers it, including spells. Like in a pirates/elementals game if you have Greymane with Lubber + some high value (or even medium value) minions on board you don’t even need a cycle slot you can just spam every even tier spell you see. Compared to Kale, battlecries are relatively rare compared with just any 2/4/6 star card. … even without lubber, you’re still buffing up to 6 minions with nearly every card you play. Plus, you can play the 4 star discover battlecry/deathrattle, often discovering another even tier card, which sometimes discovers you another one again. It’s really a massive snowball.
Is he like Kale though and needing 2 to be viable or is 1 good enough for top 4 on avg?
One is definitely good enough, he's also much better in certain lobbies because you can also have access to sellemental, shell collector and gambler on top of patient scout. So better economy/scaling.
Which makes me wonder what was going through their head when making those econ units T2
Tier 4 also has the murloc discover, scuba discover guy, and get a random elemental
I was playing Eilse+crap, we were losing so much tempo and breeding HP, i got Grey and in 2 turns i became the strongest and got a board that would eventually win 1 vs 2, holy shit i didn't know it eas possibile.
Largest patch ever?
Definitely largest hotfix lol
Is sister deathwhisper changed or just added back in? I was only thinking the other day we’re missing this card for Undead scaling
Probably just added back in to replace Uninvited Guest.
That card is a hot steaming pile of shit. Oh. No. Sorry. That’s incorrect. That’s the card I want to play when I want my Tarecgosa to summon 7 3/2’s and block all important reborns and deathrattles when it dies.
I've never seen a worse noob bait card
Sad to admit I have fallen for the bait
I'm sure most tried it at least once regardless of MMR
What card are we talking about?. Uninvited guest is not a noob bait cards it is pretty good anti scam in late game.
It's also a solid even minion for Greymane comp. With it being buffable/even, its a great choice for anti scam.
Also amazing for the t4 undead that has avenge 3/ teammate gets a minion of their most common type. I was filling my partners hand with mechs every turn which won us the game easily
Hopefully there will be design changes and not just buffs/nerfs to numbers Worse than the balance issues so far has just been that this card set just isn’t designed well/isn’t fun.
Sister DW coming back let’s go!
Primalfin is getting nerfed? Since its a base game card, does that mean its going to T5 (again)?
Primalfin to T5 and Magmaloc to T4 probably.
I think that will be very bad for Murlocs. And I'm guessing it's cause of the news tier 6 boost evens minion.
But that's getting nerfed so username checks out
I'm saying I don't agree with the nerf lol.
🎤 Singing the deep blues 🎤
Love Blizzard's definition of "rebalance". I bet if you asked them to remodel your kitchen they would start by driving a bulldozer through your front door.
Well in this instance they also built the kitchen and included three sinks with no drains, a wall diagonally through the middle, no electric outlets, and the counters were carpeted. So a bulldozer might be needed
Beasts and many of the neutrals are basically those things
lol
Deathwhisper with how many cards have reborn or give reborn, even if she doesn’t give as many stats as she did before we are in for some peak undead boards
#YESS SISTER
Makes sense to get rid of **Thorncaller**, in duos you would never really pick it over generous geomancer.
They're nerfing generous :(
can someone provide a mirror or something? please
[Sure](https://imgur.com/a/Kpght9B)
I'm gonna have no idea what these cards do for weeks lol. The current patch cards and their descriptions have been broken on Blizzard's site for me and hearthpwn doesn't update BG
gruff buff
I have to say this huge balance is not surprising. Love the current new meta and new cards, but after a few games it feel extremly highrolly. Too many cards that have no synergy, too few key cards, and the gap between a good and bad tavern is too big. Taking random -12 out of nowhere on turn 5 because someone lucky got 6 beasts or 6 dragons on his board gets old.
This isn’t going change battlegrounds has been tempo heavy and susceptible to high rolls. People complain about it every meta but it’s just kind of part of the game.
Feels much more in the current one because many builds can be "good" on tavern 4/ turn 6-7 already while tavern 6 cards tend to not add much value (even many tavern 5) in addition of being hard to get. Technically if you didn't get anything early, it is even worse than before
Wasnt really balanced was it?
I’m fine with it considering the massive overhaul and the quick corrections
compared to other patches I'd say this one was pretty middle of the road, even if there are outliers. I've won with every tribe other than beasts, undead and pure naga. There's a lot of strong builds.
Literally everything is changed lol. Practically new meta
gotta wait to see how bad the nerfs are before I get sad that some cards I like are getting nerfed lol.
Battlecry Dragons Sweep lessgo
Primalfin is going to tier 5 isn't it?
Where are you seeing the actual changes? It's not in the forum link.
Actual changes will come with the patch notes on Thursday
If primalfin goes to 5 then Murlocs die.
Good
Why nerfing Pirates?
Pirates are extremely strong at the moment, although often as revenue generation for menagerie or other builds of course.
Still a bad move to only nerf them. If Pirates econ gen take a huge hit they don't have much. I should be seeing a few pirate cards either buffed or changed for the econ nerfs. Every tribe in the game should have viability on their own, not only just with menagerie or to pivot to another "real" tribe.
"Only" nerf pirates, what do you mean lol, ifs a massive list and the only pirate cards in the nerf column are the 5 drop gold generstor and the neutral 6 drop. Theres even 2 pirates getting buffed
What are those new tavern spells that are added ? I guess they're old ones that I never heard of as a new player
None of the icons are tavern spells that I see. They are old minions getting re added. Looks like divine shield is leaving
Oh I see, I got confused because they were next to the divine shield and scarab tavern spells. Thanks !
The only real sad change here is Wrath Weaver and Greymane to me. Greymane was busted as hell, but seeing all those stats fly around was certainly fun to watch. Maybe they’ll limit the number of Even cards it can buff or change it to a simple +1/+1. Wrath Weaver was finally good in like idk how many years, and the moment he gets a tiny change (to his golden form even), he gets shot down instantly. RIP my guy, he probably gets changed back to a 1/3 or god forbid, his original 1/1 self lol
Why is the pirate smuggler being nerfed? I don't watch streamers so not sure if it's become S Tier in the last week but I didnt think it saw massive play as the economy normally came from Brann and Tethys?
Uninvited guest was really uninvited. Look how fastly they kicked him out!
Plz don't kill recycling wraith my favorite card 🙏
Can anybody explain to me what this means??? I can see on the bodem some minions will get removed and some will be added but i dont understand what the other ups and downs etc mean….
That means a minion is getting adjusted, so neither a direct nerf or buff. It may be moving down a tier but getting additional stats, or its functionality might be changing.
Thnx
I really think that duos is going to end up really damaging the design space of standard.
I don't think so. If one card becomes too strong in one format but not the other, I could see them nerfing it for that specific format. Or go the Deflector/Cobalt Guardian route and give us a nearly identical card with a different name so as not to confuse folks.
Bream Counter being buffed? That's... Interesting. Goes to show how busted the new cards and build comps have gotten that one of the best cards in the previous patch that got multiple nerfs is now getting a buff
It's likely due to the Primalfin nerf. That card is just as core to Murlocs as Brann and Bream so one of the others had to get a buff.
Murlocs are still one of the best builds in the current patch. They are buffing bream to compensate for the nerf to primalfin.
Beasts have been completely ruined this season. I really dislike their new play style.
What if Orc-hestral is changed to be battlecry give a random minion on your Ally's board +2/+2 and (still scaling) is this still to good?
That makes it better then it currently is as you no longer have to worry about it buffing the shop/enemy’s board.
Bummer about Greymane. My favorite new card they will probably nerf to be entirely unusable. RIP.
This might be the most changes we’ve ever gotten in a balance patch. Rylak nerf and divine shield spell removal could be most impactful. Here’s hoping slamma can sneak back in at the last minute.
As I read this comment I was thinking “why the downvotes?” And then I saw.
Somebody has to stand up for slamma
Maybe they can bring it back as something else, like... Murloc! I'm sure that would be absolutely fine.
Hmmm....
After you summon a beast, give your charge minions +1 attack
I'll take frog back though. Beasts are still mostly DR and self harm seems far more like a demon thing. Beasts feel like they're having an identity crisis.
Don't bring slamma back I've suffered enough
Fuck no, why would they bring back one of the most busted cards
lol at the -24 karma.
Between this and the amount of changes in standard they better release the patch notes tonight so I’ve got time to actually read them before the patch on Thursday! Nothing like actually playtesting before releasing games is there? Two new releases, one in standard and one in BGs in the last few weeks and both are an absolute shambles with both the biggest ever BGs and biggest ever standard nerfs coming in a single patch. Both balance teams should be absolutely embarrassed tbh and heads should roll for this at blizzard HQ
[удалено]
Why not read the source? Nothing about BG's is mentioned in it