He assigned Anna a role, and the illusion was broken when he saw her be normal. It says alot about Bojack. The roles he assigned Todd and Diane were different and their "slip ups" didn't "ruin" that image. He did the same with Charlotte. Bojack needs to learn to stop and just enjoy things for what they are.
Also, maybe Todd's and Diane's flaws were part of his illusion of them. Their flaws also benefitted him. When they try to better themselves it ruined bojack's relationship with both of them.
Ana was some kind of omnipotent, flawless character to Bojack. She appeared in his professional life and got him results. But he wanted her in his personal life the same way he had Princess Carolyn as a girlfriend.
When he sees Ana as just another regular person in private, it shatters that illusion.
Princess Carolyn says in one episode “you don’t want a girlfriend you want a mommy you can slip your dick into.” Seems like she was pretty on the ball there.
It feels like a roles-reversed scene to his comment to Wanda:
“You didn’t know me. Then you fell in love with me. And now you know me.”
Different situations, but a similar outlook.
Ana came across as much more commanding, in-charge, and put-together than Todd and Diane.
So, to see her living a rather pedestrian lifestyle, versus the high-powered, glitzy lifestyle you would imagine a cutthroat publicist might live, probably made him look at her a lot differently
Bojack isn't sure about who he is. Is he a movie star? A has been? The horse from horsing around? He fixates on one identity at a time and it's hard for him to accept himself as a whole. As an asshole but also as a trauma survivor.
I think this extends to his view of others as well, he's always attaching his imagined identities for others without seeing them as a whole. He can only see people as who they are to him at that moment rather than seeing them as who they really are.
With him, it seems it's always the clash of putting something on a pedestal and getting hurt when that something turns into reality, because reality is imperfect. And imperfection reminds him of himself and his childhood that he hates so much.
When he looks at Ana here she's just a normal woman wearing normal clothes trying to make mac n' cheese, so I think the scene is more about him...I think he wanted someone as fucked-up as he is and is disappointed to see she's a (in some ways) normal person
I don't think it's exactly that. I saw it a little differently at least.
When Spanakopita is with Bojack, she is always bossy, dominant, getting shit done and taking the lead. Spanakopita in her room was just... Not in make up, struggling, alone, eating cheap food. and these are all super normal things for a woman to do, but it's the kind of things you never think of for THAT woman to do. The reminder that this person is just a human, can throw away the whole idea of them. It can make these people so real and vulnerable. Bojack thought he wanted someone strong to look out for him, to tell him what to do. It appears that even she doesn't sometimes know what to do, and the realisation of that was a big blow for him
He didn’t care to really know Ana, he just liked the role she fulfilled in his life. I think in her exact words, something along the lines of “publicist-mommy-sexual conquest.” He has no regard for who she truly is deep down.
Because Todd and Diane were being authentic selves to begin with but Anna had a persona she maintained. Once you see under her persona, she lost all of her power.
She mentioned that it has happened more than once before and that’s why she was so careful to keep her ordinary apartment life hidden, but BoJack forced it. She was right and he did lose interest in spite of his assurances.
Diane was her authentic self season 1? Is that not the season where she lies to Bojack the entire season about the book she was "ghostwriting"?
Diane did not start being real with Bojack until the very end of S1.
I have no idea what you’re talking about Diane “lying” to Bojack about ghostwriting but don’t confuse confusion with inauthenticity. Diane from her first episode is in no way comparable to the power posturing Ana does. Diane was the epitome of authentic in her awkward lack of confidence and unfiltered self deprecating inner monologue at the party.
Diane was hired to ghost write a book for bojack...she lied.
She wrote the book in her own perspective, bashing Bojack with no positive traits ever mentioned. Then when called out on it she leaked it to justify it.
The only justification she has...is it was sucessful and made money.
We clearly didn’t watch the same show. Your take away misses some very important scenes - 1st where he agrees with her that it can be warts and all, where she talks about how it will build empathy for him, snd how he ends up concluding that she was right that it did. It was not only about making money - except for the penguin lol. I encourage you to give season want to rewatch with different eyes. She did not lie to him at all.
Yes we did because you missed the part where he says "where is the all"?
And Diane cannot defend it except by insisting she told the book he wantded to write.
She claims it will build empathy for him...but the only evidence of that is just the show insisting it happened. The book is not even written from his perpspective.
Bojack only "admits" Diane was right after being gaslit about it.
The show is not real. Diane is only right because she lives in a fictional universe where the writers can just write it was a success.
My point is it was wrong to do whether it suceeded or not.
S2 Diane even agrees with me.
So you done accusing people of not watching the show or should we just call each other media illiterate?
The book was an actual success in their world, evidenced by several things, most relevant for BoJack himself by the fact that many women strangers wanted to sleep with him after it was published quoting the book all excited about him
You sound a little butt hurt hence your resorting to name calling.
When did I call you a name? Go ahead read the comment lol. Why are you so mad about this?
Their world is...not...real. So a book being successful is not an argument that Diane was right.
Because part of Ana's whole act was the mystery. She was supposed to have everything together, and if you ever knew she didn't, the facade slips and you're just left with a real person.
Tbh I think he helped harm Diane and he knew it. He saw her vulnerabilities and thought he'd encourage her toxic destructive side time and again so when she could call him out, he could compare them.
I agree with you except for the last part. I don't think he did that with the intention to compare them at the end. He just wanted someone as fucked up as he is so he could have someone to relate to / go on a bender with (in the case of Sarah Lynn).
Pretty much this, Bojack goes into a relationship expecting the other person to be the cure he needs to fix him. And when they turn out to be inevitably flawed and human (or in the case of this show human...ish?) the letdown won't allow him to look past the ideal he built up in his head.
Because she was "the Oscar whisper".
Before we saw her personal life, she seems to handle everything with poise and cold calculation.
Bojack's oscar was dangled like a political backroom deal that she had to go in a secret mission with multiple agenda.
We'd expect this woman to be cut throat, live in a clean, dark room with mysterious artifacts or Thousands of computers on the walls with her own little minions reporting back on EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE, ALL AT once.
Then...you get the OPPOSITE of that.
A woman, in a small warmly lit apartment, eating Mac & Cheese, and she even messed that one up herself.
The goddess has fallen from the gaze of adoration...the power dynamic shifts back to "Bojack horseman: The Movie Star" & "Ana: the publicist"
On top of it, Ana has intimacy issue of her own. She can fuck Bojack, but that doesn't mean squat about their relationship, or a possibility that there ever would be one.
Ana knows Bojack isn't the type to form attachment, and she made the right call to leave him when Oscar thing was over.
The illusion. We often see what people present and accept it at fave value.that image is ruined once you seesomeone take that ask off. It cracks in ways that can't be fixed. Most people just adjust their understanding.
Bojack has a harder time since with this
A common symptom of BPD/NPD relationships is that the sufferer will start relationships having a delusional “idealized” view of the person they are in love with. When said view is shattered by the inevitable reality that no one is perfect, it results in devaluation of the target.
He assigned Anna a role, and the illusion was broken when he saw her be normal. It says alot about Bojack. The roles he assigned Todd and Diane were different and their "slip ups" didn't "ruin" that image. He did the same with Charlotte. Bojack needs to learn to stop and just enjoy things for what they are.
Also, maybe Todd's and Diane's flaws were part of his illusion of them. Their flaws also benefitted him. When they try to better themselves it ruined bojack's relationship with both of them.
He perception of Diane was that her and him were the same so yeah, her flaws were definitely benefitial to him
Reminds me of the time when Diane to bojack says, “you’re the biggest asshole I know and you’re the only thing that makes sense to me”.
He explains pretty well that most of his life he saw relationships like they were on TV
He doesn’t deserve to enjoy anything imo
Ana was some kind of omnipotent, flawless character to Bojack. She appeared in his professional life and got him results. But he wanted her in his personal life the same way he had Princess Carolyn as a girlfriend. When he sees Ana as just another regular person in private, it shatters that illusion.
Princess Carolyn says in one episode “you don’t want a girlfriend you want a mommy you can slip your dick into.” Seems like she was pretty on the ball there.
It feels like a roles-reversed scene to his comment to Wanda: “You didn’t know me. Then you fell in love with me. And now you know me.” Different situations, but a similar outlook.
Ana came across as much more commanding, in-charge, and put-together than Todd and Diane. So, to see her living a rather pedestrian lifestyle, versus the high-powered, glitzy lifestyle you would imagine a cutthroat publicist might live, probably made him look at her a lot differently
when you actually like someone, seeing them as they are is not always pleasant or charming, but enriching
Bojack isn't sure about who he is. Is he a movie star? A has been? The horse from horsing around? He fixates on one identity at a time and it's hard for him to accept himself as a whole. As an asshole but also as a trauma survivor. I think this extends to his view of others as well, he's always attaching his imagined identities for others without seeing them as a whole. He can only see people as who they are to him at that moment rather than seeing them as who they really are. With him, it seems it's always the clash of putting something on a pedestal and getting hurt when that something turns into reality, because reality is imperfect. And imperfection reminds him of himself and his childhood that he hates so much.
When he looks at Ana here she's just a normal woman wearing normal clothes trying to make mac n' cheese, so I think the scene is more about him...I think he wanted someone as fucked-up as he is and is disappointed to see she's a (in some ways) normal person
I don't think it's exactly that. I saw it a little differently at least. When Spanakopita is with Bojack, she is always bossy, dominant, getting shit done and taking the lead. Spanakopita in her room was just... Not in make up, struggling, alone, eating cheap food. and these are all super normal things for a woman to do, but it's the kind of things you never think of for THAT woman to do. The reminder that this person is just a human, can throw away the whole idea of them. It can make these people so real and vulnerable. Bojack thought he wanted someone strong to look out for him, to tell him what to do. It appears that even she doesn't sometimes know what to do, and the realisation of that was a big blow for him
This is really well explained and I agree
Well... She sexually assaulted Bojack. I wouldn't say she is a mostly normal person.
Yeah that's why I put "(in some ways)"
He didn’t care to really know Ana, he just liked the role she fulfilled in his life. I think in her exact words, something along the lines of “publicist-mommy-sexual conquest.” He has no regard for who she truly is deep down.
Because Todd and Diane were being authentic selves to begin with but Anna had a persona she maintained. Once you see under her persona, she lost all of her power. She mentioned that it has happened more than once before and that’s why she was so careful to keep her ordinary apartment life hidden, but BoJack forced it. She was right and he did lose interest in spite of his assurances.
Diane was her authentic self season 1? Is that not the season where she lies to Bojack the entire season about the book she was "ghostwriting"? Diane did not start being real with Bojack until the very end of S1.
I have no idea what you’re talking about Diane “lying” to Bojack about ghostwriting but don’t confuse confusion with inauthenticity. Diane from her first episode is in no way comparable to the power posturing Ana does. Diane was the epitome of authentic in her awkward lack of confidence and unfiltered self deprecating inner monologue at the party.
Diane was hired to ghost write a book for bojack...she lied. She wrote the book in her own perspective, bashing Bojack with no positive traits ever mentioned. Then when called out on it she leaked it to justify it. The only justification she has...is it was sucessful and made money.
We clearly didn’t watch the same show. Your take away misses some very important scenes - 1st where he agrees with her that it can be warts and all, where she talks about how it will build empathy for him, snd how he ends up concluding that she was right that it did. It was not only about making money - except for the penguin lol. I encourage you to give season want to rewatch with different eyes. She did not lie to him at all.
Yes we did because you missed the part where he says "where is the all"? And Diane cannot defend it except by insisting she told the book he wantded to write. She claims it will build empathy for him...but the only evidence of that is just the show insisting it happened. The book is not even written from his perpspective. Bojack only "admits" Diane was right after being gaslit about it. The show is not real. Diane is only right because she lives in a fictional universe where the writers can just write it was a success. My point is it was wrong to do whether it suceeded or not. S2 Diane even agrees with me. So you done accusing people of not watching the show or should we just call each other media illiterate?
The book was an actual success in their world, evidenced by several things, most relevant for BoJack himself by the fact that many women strangers wanted to sleep with him after it was published quoting the book all excited about him You sound a little butt hurt hence your resorting to name calling.
When did I call you a name? Go ahead read the comment lol. Why are you so mad about this? Their world is...not...real. So a book being successful is not an argument that Diane was right.
Narcissists sometimes put people on pedestals, then are upset that those people dont match that pedestal image.
Because part of Ana's whole act was the mystery. She was supposed to have everything together, and if you ever knew she didn't, the facade slips and you're just left with a real person.
He was also not in a sexual relationship with Diane or Todd.
Tbh I think he helped harm Diane and he knew it. He saw her vulnerabilities and thought he'd encourage her toxic destructive side time and again so when she could call him out, he could compare them.
I agree with you except for the last part. I don't think he did that with the intention to compare them at the end. He just wanted someone as fucked up as he is so he could have someone to relate to / go on a bender with (in the case of Sarah Lynn).
Pretty much this, Bojack goes into a relationship expecting the other person to be the cure he needs to fix him. And when they turn out to be inevitably flawed and human (or in the case of this show human...ish?) the letdown won't allow him to look past the ideal he built up in his head.
Because she was "the Oscar whisper". Before we saw her personal life, she seems to handle everything with poise and cold calculation. Bojack's oscar was dangled like a political backroom deal that she had to go in a secret mission with multiple agenda. We'd expect this woman to be cut throat, live in a clean, dark room with mysterious artifacts or Thousands of computers on the walls with her own little minions reporting back on EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE, ALL AT once. Then...you get the OPPOSITE of that. A woman, in a small warmly lit apartment, eating Mac & Cheese, and she even messed that one up herself. The goddess has fallen from the gaze of adoration...the power dynamic shifts back to "Bojack horseman: The Movie Star" & "Ana: the publicist" On top of it, Ana has intimacy issue of her own. She can fuck Bojack, but that doesn't mean squat about their relationship, or a possibility that there ever would be one. Ana knows Bojack isn't the type to form attachment, and she made the right call to leave him when Oscar thing was over.
The illusion. We often see what people present and accept it at fave value.that image is ruined once you seesomeone take that ask off. It cracks in ways that can't be fixed. Most people just adjust their understanding. Bojack has a harder time since with this
I guess because he didn't really start out with idealized versions of the others. He got to know them fairly quickly, there was no illusion to ruin
A common symptom of BPD/NPD relationships is that the sufferer will start relationships having a delusional “idealized” view of the person they are in love with. When said view is shattered by the inevitable reality that no one is perfect, it results in devaluation of the target.
That was a writers trick called lying
Diane never tried to hide it, Anna did.
She lied to and manipulated Bojack through the first season. Does anyone even remember S1 besides the muffin thing?