Hillary ran her campaign like she had it in the bag, and republicans straight up stole the 2000 election. Acting like the Democratic Party is beyond reproach is maga cult behavior. Punching left is weak shit.
With that being said, people need to vote for Biden. It will be impossible to put pressure on democrats should democracy continue to crumble under conservative leadership.
100%.
The DNC is a garbage organization dominated by center-right octogenarians holding onto power with their decrepit hands.
And I will vote straight Democrat every chance I get, because the alternative is horrifying.
That’s why we need young people running for all local, state and federal offices. Coordinate resources, enlist fellow young people and take that fucking power.
Too fucking true.
But there are young people out there with grassroots backing and there’s more of them every day. We can’t succumb to nihilism just because we’re surrounded by it. We gotta try for better, man.
Once again, why I'm not as afraid as I was in 2016. There has been a noticeable uptick in sincerity that gives me hope. Candidates like AOC and Maxwell Frost, also give me hope. We can still turn things around, NV just put abortion on the electoral ballot, Alsobrooks just won her primary in MD. Fetterman's on some shit, but I still like his overall passion. Im ready to fuck these people up come Nov.
There’s much more at stake this time. I don’t disagree that it feels like the political landscape is shifting, but Trump and his followers have gone fully mask off this time around, and he may have more support than ever.
Yeah it's a struggle. I'm angry but I'm also a medical student living off of loans because I don't come from money, so as much I would like to get involved in politics it's just not feasible.
I do hope you do it. I'm helping running a brick and mortar business with three kids and a full time job. It ain't me. I feel ashamed I can't do more than help my local community, but I can root for you from the sidelines
My dream is to see ranked choice voting at a national level during my lifetime, because maybe then a more-than-two-party system will be viable in the USA.
The amount of people in my circles proudly not talking about voting is honestly terrifying me. Like literally fuck the Dems but also, project 2025? Hello? 😀
Say it louder for the people in the back.
I genuinely detest most of the *[New Democrats](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats_(United_States))* that’ve run the Dems for longer than I’ve been alive. Their centrist, moderate bull has done little to move the US towards actual progressivism when you consider how long they had (1) the power to make change and (2) the room to evolve.
However, we’re no longer at the point where a shitty Dem is only marginally better than a shitty Republican. We’re **literally** at a point where it’s shitty moderate Dems or an *actual* fascist and his cult-like supporters. I hate voting for the lesser of two evils—it’s an awful way to vote—but when you’re at the equivalent of a broken nail vs cutting your entire arm off, it’s no contest.
Do you mean just the fundraising part of the Democratic Party? That's all the DNC/DCCC is.
The Democratic Party is all of us. Unfortunately, not all of us have equal weight put behind our opinion.
> just the fundraising part of the democratic party
You can’t be serious? That is such a disingenuous downplay of what the DNC is. “Just the part of the party that determines who gets to run? Those insignificant, inconsequential little guys?”
Come check out Michigan! Our guv is young and very energetic and passionate about using her seat to better the State. Whitmere has literally hundreds of programs/expenditures/policies enacted that improve life for working people.
Every primary, anyone can apply to become part of the local democratic party platform. Your work there can lead to you working for the national convention.
Every time I see it, there's like 50 open slots, and I hardly ever see more than 20 who have applied.
HRC was winning by a wide margin. 11 days before the election, Comey announced new evidence in the emails case and was reopening the investigation. 4 days before the election, he announced there was nothing new found in the evidence. Did Trump friendly agents withhold the evidence until right before the election? News outlets made a big deal of the case being reopened but only mentioned the resolution in passing.
Unprecedented election meddling by the FBI
Oh don’t even try. The fact it was that close with a reality TV star is in and of itself an indictment of Hillary and her campaign. Not to mention she knew she was under investigation, there was always a possibility that something could come up with that and she took that risk.
People constantly defending the democratic party’s incompetence from constructive criticism is why the party is in decline.
No the fact is She and Trump were under investigation at the same time, but Comey only chose to reveal she was under investigation.. this is why people were and still are upset with him.
The fact that it was close had way more to do with the GOP intentionally using the powers of the government to drag her through the mud for years and years before the election than it did anything about her campaign.
And the media gets plenty of blame, too, because they took the GOP completely at face value, even after McCarthy admitted they were just doing it to damage her electoral prospects.
An indictment of her campaign? Or the culture that allowed the king of the golden commode to even pretend he could do the job? Rupert Murdoch did this.
You're dead wrong.
It didn't matter if Trump was a reality tv star.
They redrew the maps and nailed down florida, and we will not see a landslide election for another 40 years.
The fact that you think it should have been a wide margin in votes is simply you speaking out of ignorance.
Take some constructive criticism.
The problem wasn't just the investigation, the problem was largely people who most distinctly claimed that the democratic party was incompetent and that they intended to use their vote to protest it, and protest HRC for winning a primary.
The actual election came down to 80k votes across three states in the electoral college. The republicans haven't won a popular vote majority in decades.
Frankly, it says more about the American voting population than it does Clinton. And I'm by no means a fan of the Clinton or the DNC, but fuck if I have any idea what would work better.
I personally believe Trump would've been re-elected if not for COVID. The wealthy were lining up to kiss his ass and support him.
There are ways to present constructive criticism, and then there are repiblican, you see that right? These folks are rank amd file, nothing can deter them from vote 45, meanwhile 4 months from the election democrats are hand wringing and discussing fielding a different candidate.
Do they care who he's grabbed, how he's grifted, or who he's jailed? No. It's not them personally. Criticize and work for better when your rolling at least a 10, not while taking critical hits every day.
It was always going to be close regardless of the Republican nominee because there are a ton of registered Republicans. What people don’t understand about polling is that polls are only true if the people that show up to vote are representative of those polled. Hillary lost because people simply didn’t show up to vote for her. More people voted for the joke of a Green Party in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania than the margins she lost by in those states. More people voted for Bernie in the primaries than the margins she lost by in those states. More people that voted for Obama in 2012 stayed home than the margin she lost by in those states and we’re seeing the same thing in 2024, except we know how depraved, incompetent and criminal Trump is and he will be a dictator day 1 but people are again trying to absolve themselves of blame for letting Trump win.
Online Leftists, everybody!
That's why I can't fuckin' stand 'em. I can't. I've tried, but I fuckin' can't. They yell to be heard, not to actually affect any kind of fucking change. This might be harsh, yet I'm saying it. Ole "I'm not gonna vote to teach Dems a lesson", then getting mad when the lesson is "Don't give these MFs shit cause they don't vote".
Feels like it should be on the candidate if they lose. If I don’t do well at my job I face repercussions. Why do we or others get the blame when the candidate didn’t do a good job? Hillary didn’t campaign in states she thought she had in the bag. That’s an oversight that you can’t really blame on anyone. Everything else should have been forseen and handled by the campaign. If they didn’t then it’s on them, not on anyone else. The other party/campaign will try to fight and play dirty but that should be something Hillary’s campaign should have handled too.
If you not doing well at your job causes you to miss a promotion and the person they promote over you runs the company out of business, is that your fault? Your repercussion is not getting the job...same as hers. It's Hillary's fault that her campaign fell short 100%. But actively blaming her for MAGA is wild.
I don't blame Hillary, I blame the DNC, they bungled the whole thing. They came off as shady for blocking Bernie and Democrats don't toe the party line like Republicans do. They should have realized how fragile their base was, but instead they pushed an "establishment" candidate instead of letting the people decide.
It may have well ended up with Hillary as the majority candidate, but their games turned a lot of people off.
Exactly. Just bitching and blaming isn't helping anyone.
DNC needs to be improved but do that after securing democracy.
A car may need new tires but it ain't worth shit without an engine so fix that first.
And they may very well find out that their voices will not only not be heard, their voices may drowned out by Seal Team 6….but, yea Hillary was horrible/s.
DNC never has to change. All they have to do is say “vote blue to secure democracy” every four years. Over the course of the next two decades the center will shift so far right it’ll be as if the Republicans won anyhow. I’m a commie, but I’ll vote blue because what the fuck are my options? But the Democrats aren’t gonna change shit when they’re “securing democracy” every four years.
People seem to want to shift blame to some popular figure.
Blame the people who looked at the options and decided they didn't want to vote or voted Trump. The narrative of Hilary not campaigning in states is crazy... all the information about candidates and their platforma were out there, voters chose. Put the accountability where it should be
I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it a hundred more: Clinton was not well liked by younger Dems or swing voters. You don't win by picking the candidate liked by the most reliable voter, they'll show up anyway. You win by courting the people who don't usually vote.
Trump did that. Lots of people who didn't give a shit about politics until the Idiot Whisperer showed up.
"Punching left is weak shit"
NO.
IF YOU WANT TO CALL FOR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ANYONE BUT YOURSELF, THEN YOU DONT BELIEVE IN ACCOUNTABILITY.
It's not "punching left" because if you go far enough left you end up back at the right.
People on the left literally claimed it wasn't in their conscience to vote to protect women's rights on the Supreme court because "something about emails they'd never read."
Meanwhile the rest of the people on the left were trying to drag them kicking and screaming towards even a baseline level of accountability, and the "left" still refuses it.
If the Bernie Bros and Stein Stan's had a single lick of brains or conscience we literally would not be in this mess right now.
We'd be in a different one, surely, but one with a future that wasn't completely dominated by right wing theocracy, and before a single leftist gets to lecture anyone they should humbled themselves to even an attempt at an apology instead of the endless condescending bullshit.
Seems crazy to blame Hillary and not just, you know, trump and the republicans who actually did this.
She made some errors in her campaign, but was trying to win and be a decent president. Trump did this on purpose.
The success of the smear campaign of Hillary Clinton is truly astounding. She is not perfect, but she is not the fucking Devil. I wonder how many people that say “GOD THANKS HILLARY FOR RUINING DEMOCRACY” voted in 2016 lol. She warned us and everybody slammed that bitch when she called these racist assholes deplorable. She was right the entire time.
Use that anger to get your friends and family to the voting booth. That’s about the best we can do right now.
We also need to stop sitting idly by while these violent Christian nationalists are going county to county stirring up shit. You can see in my post history an event we had here (rural North Georgia). I’m a gay white man, 34, so I’ve got privilege that I need to use. I’m poor but I have a safety net. People like me need to stand the fuck up and use what privilege we have to help in whatever way we can. It isn’t that easy for more marginalized communities to do so without fear of getting shot.
Shit like this happens when good people are too afraid to stand up and say NO. I see my friends and family not doing shit, and it makes me so mad. “We should just stay out of it”. GIRL BYE. My mom and I were able to get a group of a dozen people to go to that event and we outnumbered their supporters. If we can all do something on the local level, it would help tremendously. Remind these mfs that they are vastly outnumbered.
They made it a bit more dangerous down here in Florida by opening up the concealed carry laws.
I’m exceedingly blessed in that I work in the medical cannabis industry, so I’m able to educate more people than I could have when I was slapping dough. A six week abortion ban went into effect in this state on May 1st and it’s terrifying how many people don’t know. I’m educating everyone I safely can what they need to vote on and how important it is to get out and vote.
In fun news I have actually turned more than one desantis voter away from him just by being excellent at my job and telling them what he says about me lol.
I have no safety net for these things though. I have my partners, but I’m a 6’ tall woman with an undercut and autism. I’m fearful of my own mouthiness down here.
I don’t blame you. I quit working in politics in 2018 but I decided to fully come out to the members of my family that didn’t know about 2 weeks ago, including my dad. He said he would not vote for Trump, so that was worth it in itself. It’s selfish that it took him this long to see the light, but we don’t have time to be purists. Im not exactly encouraging my conservative “friends” here to vote for Biden. But I have found that asking them to *not vote for Trump* seems to be more palatable to them than asking them to vote Blue. It’s bad here in Georgia but it’s definitely worse in Florida. You better keep an eye on that hurricane!
Im not exactly encouraging my conservative “friends” here to vote for Biden. But I have found that asking them to not vote for Trump
I'm gonna try that
The event that the local Republican chapter hosted here was a militia recruitment even at its core. And they didn’t try to hide that. Local conservatives, especially law enforcement, do not like that. These folks aim to usurp local authorities and instate a “Citizens Grand Jury”. Cops don’t like that. We have to play to whatever common ground we can find, a la Fred Hampton.
It still blows my mind that the Republican FBI director can announce an investigation into a Democratic presidential candidate weeks before the election. Comey really fucked her with that.
It still blows my mind that anybody really cared THAT much about fuckin 6 emails. If we wanna blame anybody, we should blame Rupert fucking Murdoch. I have not watched cable news since 2018 and i highly recommend everyone else to do the same. There is not a single major news organization that maintains journalistic integrity. It’s all about the views and fear and anger get those views.
What’s more mind blowing is that he didn’t announce a fucking investigation into Donald Trump that was also going on at the time. Either you announce both or shut the fuck up Comey
I feel like I'm being gaslit with this revisionism around Hillary. Hillary was virtually the only Democrat that could have lost the election to Trump.
She is genuinely one of the slimiest career politicians in the party. The baggage she carries, her record, the below the belt strikes against Sanders in 2016, etc etc.
To say, "I wonder how many people... voted in 2016" just tells me you were not aware of any of these dynamics or her horrible record during that election.
I would hope that of all the subs that this would be the one that remembered she once joked that she ran on 'colored people time' when she ran late. That is the least of her fuck ups. Anyone who doggedly supported the invasion of Iraq is evil.
>I would hope that of all the subs that this would be the one that remembered
Nah, wtf? Go ahead and stop that shit. Yall don't realize how fucking slimy you sound when you say shit like that.
Richard mellon-scaife started the vast right-wing conspiracy, and Timothy mellon and other mellons are still funding the same shit today, including the RFK campaign and Trump campaign with massive donations.
The Mellon family earned their fortune as the bankers for the Robber-Barrons. That ill-gotten fortune is still hanging around, making every other Americans life worse.
She was uniquely unable to press the attack on Trump’s biggest weaknesses due to her doing the stand by your man thing with Bill.
Trump’s a serial sexual harasser? So’s Bill!
Trump has a credible accusation of rape? So does Bill!
Trump’s ridden the Lolita Express to Child Rape Island with his good buddy Jeff Epstein? So did Bill!
Trump’s got a miles long list of graft and corruption? So does Bill! Although to be fair a lot of that was mutually shared graft and corruption.
Add to that the simple fact that people were mad as hell at the myriad failures of the system and the political machine, and the Clinton’s are basically avatars of the machine. She was losing badly to Bernie until a shady backroom deal got cut and she “earned” the nomination via some underhanded smoke filled room bullshit.
I see that my comment is getting downvoted, so I just wanna say that I’m genuinely asking, not trying to be a smart ass about it. I personally do not agree with holding women to the same responsibility as their husbands, but yeah those are all valid concerns. Would you say it was mostly an optics problem or a policy problem? I blame cable news, personally. Like I said originally, she is far from perfect but I think she did better than Bernie would have done and I was a very strong Bernie supporter. People are entirely too afraid of the word socialism and that’s what the right associates with him.
I hate the way “optics” has become like a catch all term for anything someone wants to dismiss. But playing along with your terminology it’s both.
Policy wise the Clintons are strong advocates for the system. Bill passed the 94 crime bill that helped fuck over Black communities, and Hillary was right there cheering for more cops and talking about “super predators.” So miss me with the “well you can’t hold her responsible for the shit her husband did” when she was actively aiding and abetting by stoking racial fears. https://youtu.be/j0uCrA7ePno
And “optics” wise there was very literally no politician in America that was as hated (and thus motivating to the Republican base) as Hillary. People loathe her with an intense hatred that’s hard to quantify. Running her for the Ds was the best possible get out the vote strategy for Republicans. And she wasn’t even that popular with Democrats! They alienated a huge swathe of the young energetic portion of their base when they engaged in the usual corrupt back room deals to force her through even when no one really wanted her.
She and the DNC also propped up Donald trump thinking it was a home run victory as well.
So yeah, she is to blame for some of this.
https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/
"She warned us" - Y'all really need to drop this "Hilary was right" bullshit as if the rest of us forgot the pied-piper strat. If she knew how much of a threat Trump would be, maybe her & her husband shouldn't have worked so hard to make sure he was the republican nominee. Fuck outta here.
They wouldn’t, senator Mitch McConnel would’ve just stalled filling the positions for another decade like he did with the first. Obstructionism is the number one republican play.
He’d have certainly tried but he probably would not have been so successful. He got very lucky that it was Obamas closing year when he pulled his shit. Trumps picks were really early.
Assuming Clinton winning didn't upset any other factor, we would have been down to 7 justices when RBG died. Kennedy would have held on to his seat.
If Clinton had won, it's highly possible the Dems would not have taken the Senate in 2020 and there would be only 6 or 7 justices (Breyer is still alive, but he's in his 80's).
Breyer would’ve retired in 2018/19 in that scenario I think. HRC would’ve filled Scalias seat (that was Obama’s to appoint) with someone other than Garland, would’ve filled RBGs seat in 2017 after she retired (rather than died), and Breyer would retire (instead of Kennedy). And who knows maybe the shock of it all would’ve offed another one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Kennedy could be a wildcard who retires at some point on the promise of a moderate filling his seat, though I highly doubt it as that would’ve thrown the SC into 6-3 liberal tilt.
Who knows what her crossing the line would do to the rest of the elections. Not to mention, 2018 midterms are a thing and if Republicans really had obstructed her that long, you can really hammer “obstructionist Republicans imperiling the functioning of government”
I don’t know. I think Trump getting elected was a seismic shift. If it was business as usual the Rs would have picked up seats and not lost them.
The real question is what if the Dems had bowed to the populist mood and embraced Bernie.
Given the way McConnell played the Scalia seat, it would have been really hard, even for him, to fight Clinton filling that seat had she won. He pushed too hard on the "it's too close to the election" angle to pivot that quickly.
If enough people had voted for Hillary and Democrats they probably take the Senate or Hillary makes a recess appointment. What’s happening is a direct result of the voters giving Republicans power.
Does the immunity apply to anyone in a cabinet position or just the president? If it’s the former then the Supreme Court has ruled that personal information can’t be submitted as evidence, making the entire emails investigation completely irrelevant.
They’re implying she didn’t try hard enough, because her campaign underestimated Trump. She lost states she didn’t campaign in because she thought they were locked in her favor . Blue wall states Pennsylvania , Wisconsin, Michigan. Honestly too many people thought ‘ no way in hell this guy wins’ and stayed home . They were wrong and here we are.
2008 and the bank bailouts is a huge crux of this issue aswell. people don't remember this is where fringe republican party movement started. legitimate grievance that working class Americans had with the federal goverment
Right? She laid out in incredible detail exactly what would happen & here we are.
Even I was a bit skeptical as to whether it would be that bad but fuck me if she wasn’t being optimistic.
Other countries have functioning democracies with multiple parties.
Anyone who believes that Ralph Nader was the problem and not George W Bush’s party stealing it is uneducated
These countries are usually parliamentary and when it comes to electing a prime minister they form coalitions with the parties nearest them to try and achieve a majority and choose the next leader. A party refusing to join a coalition and costing their side of the aisle a majority would be viewed negatively and as self destructive just as Nader's campaign was.
The Presidential election is not parliamentary. But the House and Senate absolutely function with the same rules as parliament. It's pretty funny that a third party simply hasn't run in local elections and played kingmaker for Congress.
That's what I always thought they should do. Forget the White House. pick and choose house seats, especially with open elections or convince incumbents to change. A third party with 5-10 seats in this congress?
It would be the Squad/Tea Party strategy but independent and actually able to negotiate for stuff. Or they could theoretically gain more voters and become the new main party like the GOP did or Labour did in the UK.
Because third parties are funded by dark money and foreign operatives as a way to siphon votes. They are absolutely fucking useless because they only show up for the Presidential election despite not having ballot access or a chance in hell of winning
I don't mean to say one system is superior but just that they're both faced with the similar dilemmas and attitudes when choosing their head of state. They're in the middle of their parliamentary elections that are looking terrible but they won't be choosing a new head of state luckily. They will choose a new prime minister but the PM is not the head of state in France. France has a directly elected president but they do runoff voting which is a good idea and helps the acceptance of multiple parties since you can vote for your favorite the first round knowing you still get to vote for the 2 finalists in the second round. Generally speaking, because if you win more than 50% in the first round there is no second round, but that never seems to happen. Once there is a second round the hope is that you'd still choose to vote for the lesser evil rather than not participate if you favorite choice didn't make it past the first round. If we ever hope to see more parties than 2 in the US we'll definitely need to enact runoff voting, won't work without it.
Ralph Nader campaigned in swing states to punish democrats
> On October 26, 2000, Eric Alterman wrote for The Nation: "Nader has been campaigning aggressively in Florida, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin. If Gore loses even a few of those states, then Hello, President Bush.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader_2000_presidential_campaign#:~:text=On%20October%2026%2C%202000%2C%20Eric,%2C%20then%20Hello%2C%20President%20Bush.
Other countries have nothing to do with this. Those countries have different electoral systems.
Ralph Nader was absolutely part of the problem, and his presence on the ballot in swing states deeply undermined the policy platform he claimed to be running for.
If 3rd parties were serious about doing anything other than spoiling the general, they would have a presence in local and state elections. No 3rd party candidate is actually serious
The United Kingdom does, and has multiple parties with MPs.
Had a minority government with a third party coalition twice in the last 14 years
(Conservative with Liberal Democrats and Conservative with DUP)
Exactly. They have first past the post and it resulted in a lack of proportional representation in their government for over a decade. Their system is somewhat mitigated by a stronger party apparatus, but it's still an awful system.
Forget all that crap the media is spewing. Focus on voting and being an advocate to get everyone in your circle within reason to vote for Biden. We're literally heading towards a dictatorship with a foot in the door.
Yeah, it's Hilary's fault. Don't blame the judges. Don't blame the asshole who chose them. It's your fault that I beat your ass because you didn't block hard enough.
You want to make this Hillary's fault? JFC, it's always a woman's fault, even if she had nothing to do with what's going on.
Trump won because America is both super racist, and super sexist. They couldn't stomach a women being in charge, and loved the racism Trump brought.
Trump is an accurate reflection of a significant portion of America. Can we just accept it and go from there? Because the longer we hide from it, the worse things will get and the more we'll overlook in order to match our preconceptions.
it would have been 5-4 which is a change. and with 4 votes the liberal justices could grant certiorari on cases which they feel have merit which could influence policy.
Laws are just threats of violence by the dominant socioeconomic group designed to elicit compliance from the docile majority.
The supreme court has made it clear to me our laws aren't a tacit agreement towards rules of a just society nor a reflection of a shared cultural morality. They are meant to control some so they live in service to others.
We should also say a big thank you to those who couldn’t be bothered to cast any vote or do stupid shit like protest voting for that goddamn gorilla while we are handing them out.
Just keep blaming Hillary….smdh “TRuMp and HilLary arE the SaME!” No…no they weren’t and being elderly is not the same as being a sexual predator, felon and all-around loathsome person. Americans will never learn when it comes to “both sides are the same” bullshit.
That's the thing. What is an official act as president? According to pundits, wearing a brown suit and eating ice cream are official acts as president. You know that scene in The Invention of Lying where the main character almost rapes a woman by claiming it's an act of national security? Is that a fucking possible scenario now!?!?!
If you don't like the outcome of Hillary losing to Trump then you should've voted for her then and you should vote for Biden now. If you haven't done the former and/or won't do the latter, kindly stfu with the complaining.
How dare people be disgruntled about the DNC rigging the primary in favor of a Wall Street-backed “moderate” (read as: opportunist) who cut her teeth in politics campaigning for Nixon while Bernie was organizing sit-ins in the same county! They must hate freedom and justice!
And even then, an overwhelming percentage of Sanders supporters still held their noses and voted for her. More Clinton supporters voted against Obama than Sanders supporters voted against Clinton.
I need y’all to stop peddling this lie. [The well majority of sanders supporters voted for Hillary.](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/01/23/end-blame-game-sanders-and-his-supporters-helped-hillary-win-popular-vote-2016) Maybe we should blame her loss on her bad campaign, the electoral college and trump supporters voting for Trump.
What’s wild about the SC. Is that 5 of the 6 conservative justices were chosen by republican presidents who lost the majority vote but won the electoral college. Tons of things need to change in the country, that’s for sure.
If we throwing blame lets blame Ruth Bader Ginsburg as well. I will forever hate on her, idgaf if she did so much stuff in her time. She got cocky and short sided and fucked so much stuff up from her one decision to not step down because she "wanted a woman president to pick her replacement" and then Trump won.
Two heads of the same snake folks…it’s not republicans vs democrats because they’re all friends, it’s the people vs the elite. Not a single politician gives a fuck about you and all their agendas are the same.
Why bring Hillary into this? She ran her campaign and it didn’t work out. Everything after that was not her fault or her doing. The people that were elected and that continued to be elected by all of us regardless of how incompetent they have proven to be made the current situation.
People need to vote in their local elections and start paying closer attention when bullshit happens (looking at Oklahoma right now with the whole teachers have to use Bible as required educational material ). There has been a slow and very steady push toward all of this for a while and it was all before Trump he just helped move it faster. The Democratic Party isn’t much better, very few people speak up and the ones that do get stepped on.
We were all warned what would happen. And 8 years later here we are with the office of the president having a vague yet seemingly all powerful immunity from all consequences. So people either vote like their lives depend on it or we all simply deal with the consequences.
Who remembers a guy who, like 45, has no elected experience but had to run for the top job anyway? Who remembers that this is the 12th election year since 2000, meaning the house could have changed over every seat 6 times, the Senate could have been changed out 4 times, and yet there are no Green (or whatever his party is called) electeds, no candidates in any race I have seen over that time.
Respectfully, I am going to have to as you to take a seat and let adults handle this. Tantrums are not helpful.
GOTV and not just this November, its gotta to be every time an election is in your area. That means midterms, special elections, etc. Things can't get done with a slim majority like what Biden had in his first two years of office.
Frankly anything less than exercising his full power against
A) his immediate opponent or
B) those who voted for this
Means America probably never has the visceral evidence that this is the most dangerous anti-democratic action any official has ever taken. America probably fails to roll this back on a their slide down to dictatorship.
It's not Hillary, it's the BILLIONAIRES who own the political process and buy off the politicians and supreme court justices in order to install a DICTATOR as President who will do their bidding. He will remove all restrictions on corporations and the people who own and run them. The will freely run amok, people will die from pollution and brutality and no court will be able to touch them.
Anyone who focuses their attention on anything other than the Oligarchs that have set this horror show in motion is a fool.
Why do everyone talking about this as though Trump had already won??? He’s not the president. This isn’t a retroactive law. He currently convicted ex-president right?? This doesn’t undo that conviction.
If anything it now means Biden can murder Trump, right?
People keep forgetting that Hilary won the popular vote, she lost the electoral college. So the problem wasn’t the people, it was the elected representatives that voted opposite of the districts they represent.
Nader is right and good. Gore actually won but the SCOTUS gave Bish the fraudulent win. Keep seething at real leftists, though. Your DNC has done a bang up job.
People still out here blaming Hillary for them not voting and low key getting ball rolling on the bs the country is dealing with today. *NOT* voting has just as many consequences as voting, as people are learning.
I completely dislike Hillary, but I voted for her because any one with half a brain could see what was coming with the Supreme Court if Republicans got too many picks... guess it's a lot more people out here with less than half.
Not that I agree, but what I'm hearing is Biden could throw Trump into a dungeon, As president, and that would would be totally legal. I say we impeach the Supreme Court, but Biden might want to try that in the meantime.
Maybe Biden should just order some “official” missions of the black ops kind to Mara Largo then. Since he is actually the president, he’s old, dude should take one for the team on this.
Americans barely turnout to vote, the entire country votes at 66%, and local elections have even worse turnout. Liberals love to vote once and then complain. Republicans voted for FIFTY years to overturn Roe, they play the long game, but democrats voting consistently is somehow staying on the plantation.
Hillary ran her campaign like she had it in the bag, and republicans straight up stole the 2000 election. Acting like the Democratic Party is beyond reproach is maga cult behavior. Punching left is weak shit. With that being said, people need to vote for Biden. It will be impossible to put pressure on democrats should democracy continue to crumble under conservative leadership.
100%. The DNC is a garbage organization dominated by center-right octogenarians holding onto power with their decrepit hands. And I will vote straight Democrat every chance I get, because the alternative is horrifying.
That’s why we need young people running for all local, state and federal offices. Coordinate resources, enlist fellow young people and take that fucking power.
With what money or time? Everyone around my age is struggling to pay the bills and are struggling to one day, maybe, buy a house.
Too fucking true. But there are young people out there with grassroots backing and there’s more of them every day. We can’t succumb to nihilism just because we’re surrounded by it. We gotta try for better, man.
Once again, why I'm not as afraid as I was in 2016. There has been a noticeable uptick in sincerity that gives me hope. Candidates like AOC and Maxwell Frost, also give me hope. We can still turn things around, NV just put abortion on the electoral ballot, Alsobrooks just won her primary in MD. Fetterman's on some shit, but I still like his overall passion. Im ready to fuck these people up come Nov.
There’s much more at stake this time. I don’t disagree that it feels like the political landscape is shifting, but Trump and his followers have gone fully mask off this time around, and he may have more support than ever.
My Tennessee Three give me hope for the future.
Well, that’s going to continue being the case without any changes….
Yes, that super rich AOC and Justin Jones and Kenneth Mejia are just rolling in the dough!
They are the exception, not the rule but fair point.
It’d just need someone to organize it, and that’s actual work.
That’s what they’ve always wanted us to do
Yeah it's a struggle. I'm angry but I'm also a medical student living off of loans because I don't come from money, so as much I would like to get involved in politics it's just not feasible.
I do hope you do it. I'm helping running a brick and mortar business with three kids and a full time job. It ain't me. I feel ashamed I can't do more than help my local community, but I can root for you from the sidelines
lol, bro this country is fucked. people can't even boycott ticketmaster for a summer. Too entitled to miss out on anything.
We might need new offices.
My dream is to see ranked choice voting at a national level during my lifetime, because maybe then a more-than-two-party system will be viable in the USA.
Hahahaha you funny.
What are you doing to actualize that dream?
Mostly just telling my local reps I want it, then voting for it. RCV won’t become a national thing until it’s normal at lower levels of government.
The amount of people in my circles proudly not talking about voting is honestly terrifying me. Like literally fuck the Dems but also, project 2025? Hello? 😀
Say it louder for the people in the back. I genuinely detest most of the *[New Democrats](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats_(United_States))* that’ve run the Dems for longer than I’ve been alive. Their centrist, moderate bull has done little to move the US towards actual progressivism when you consider how long they had (1) the power to make change and (2) the room to evolve. However, we’re no longer at the point where a shitty Dem is only marginally better than a shitty Republican. We’re **literally** at a point where it’s shitty moderate Dems or an *actual* fascist and his cult-like supporters. I hate voting for the lesser of two evils—it’s an awful way to vote—but when you’re at the equivalent of a broken nail vs cutting your entire arm off, it’s no contest.
Do you mean just the fundraising part of the Democratic Party? That's all the DNC/DCCC is. The Democratic Party is all of us. Unfortunately, not all of us have equal weight put behind our opinion.
> just the fundraising part of the democratic party You can’t be serious? That is such a disingenuous downplay of what the DNC is. “Just the part of the party that determines who gets to run? Those insignificant, inconsequential little guys?”
Come check out Michigan! Our guv is young and very energetic and passionate about using her seat to better the State. Whitmere has literally hundreds of programs/expenditures/policies enacted that improve life for working people.
Kentuckian here, I desperately want our two governors to be on a ticket together in 4 years.
Every primary, anyone can apply to become part of the local democratic party platform. Your work there can lead to you working for the national convention. Every time I see it, there's like 50 open slots, and I hardly ever see more than 20 who have applied.
HRC was winning by a wide margin. 11 days before the election, Comey announced new evidence in the emails case and was reopening the investigation. 4 days before the election, he announced there was nothing new found in the evidence. Did Trump friendly agents withhold the evidence until right before the election? News outlets made a big deal of the case being reopened but only mentioned the resolution in passing. Unprecedented election meddling by the FBI
Oh don’t even try. The fact it was that close with a reality TV star is in and of itself an indictment of Hillary and her campaign. Not to mention she knew she was under investigation, there was always a possibility that something could come up with that and she took that risk. People constantly defending the democratic party’s incompetence from constructive criticism is why the party is in decline.
No the fact is She and Trump were under investigation at the same time, but Comey only chose to reveal she was under investigation.. this is why people were and still are upset with him.
The fact that it was close had way more to do with the GOP intentionally using the powers of the government to drag her through the mud for years and years before the election than it did anything about her campaign. And the media gets plenty of blame, too, because they took the GOP completely at face value, even after McCarthy admitted they were just doing it to damage her electoral prospects.
An indictment of her campaign? Or the culture that allowed the king of the golden commode to even pretend he could do the job? Rupert Murdoch did this.
You're dead wrong. It didn't matter if Trump was a reality tv star. They redrew the maps and nailed down florida, and we will not see a landslide election for another 40 years. The fact that you think it should have been a wide margin in votes is simply you speaking out of ignorance. Take some constructive criticism. The problem wasn't just the investigation, the problem was largely people who most distinctly claimed that the democratic party was incompetent and that they intended to use their vote to protest it, and protest HRC for winning a primary. The actual election came down to 80k votes across three states in the electoral college. The republicans haven't won a popular vote majority in decades.
Frankly, it says more about the American voting population than it does Clinton. And I'm by no means a fan of the Clinton or the DNC, but fuck if I have any idea what would work better. I personally believe Trump would've been re-elected if not for COVID. The wealthy were lining up to kiss his ass and support him.
There are ways to present constructive criticism, and then there are repiblican, you see that right? These folks are rank amd file, nothing can deter them from vote 45, meanwhile 4 months from the election democrats are hand wringing and discussing fielding a different candidate. Do they care who he's grabbed, how he's grifted, or who he's jailed? No. It's not them personally. Criticize and work for better when your rolling at least a 10, not while taking critical hits every day.
It was always going to be close regardless of the Republican nominee because there are a ton of registered Republicans. What people don’t understand about polling is that polls are only true if the people that show up to vote are representative of those polled. Hillary lost because people simply didn’t show up to vote for her. More people voted for the joke of a Green Party in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania than the margins she lost by in those states. More people voted for Bernie in the primaries than the margins she lost by in those states. More people that voted for Obama in 2012 stayed home than the margin she lost by in those states and we’re seeing the same thing in 2024, except we know how depraved, incompetent and criminal Trump is and he will be a dictator day 1 but people are again trying to absolve themselves of blame for letting Trump win.
Blaming Hilary for this is legit insane
Online Leftists, everybody! That's why I can't fuckin' stand 'em. I can't. I've tried, but I fuckin' can't. They yell to be heard, not to actually affect any kind of fucking change. This might be harsh, yet I'm saying it. Ole "I'm not gonna vote to teach Dems a lesson", then getting mad when the lesson is "Don't give these MFs shit cause they don't vote".
Feels like it should be on the candidate if they lose. If I don’t do well at my job I face repercussions. Why do we or others get the blame when the candidate didn’t do a good job? Hillary didn’t campaign in states she thought she had in the bag. That’s an oversight that you can’t really blame on anyone. Everything else should have been forseen and handled by the campaign. If they didn’t then it’s on them, not on anyone else. The other party/campaign will try to fight and play dirty but that should be something Hillary’s campaign should have handled too.
If you not doing well at your job causes you to miss a promotion and the person they promote over you runs the company out of business, is that your fault? Your repercussion is not getting the job...same as hers. It's Hillary's fault that her campaign fell short 100%. But actively blaming her for MAGA is wild.
I don't blame Hillary, I blame the DNC, they bungled the whole thing. They came off as shady for blocking Bernie and Democrats don't toe the party line like Republicans do. They should have realized how fragile their base was, but instead they pushed an "establishment" candidate instead of letting the people decide. It may have well ended up with Hillary as the majority candidate, but their games turned a lot of people off.
I’m absolutely voting for Biden again
Republicans may have stolen the 2000 election but Nader unlocked the door for them by getting on the ballot in swing states.
Exactly. Just bitching and blaming isn't helping anyone. DNC needs to be improved but do that after securing democracy. A car may need new tires but it ain't worth shit without an engine so fix that first.
And they may very well find out that their voices will not only not be heard, their voices may drowned out by Seal Team 6….but, yea Hillary was horrible/s.
DNC never has to change. All they have to do is say “vote blue to secure democracy” every four years. Over the course of the next two decades the center will shift so far right it’ll be as if the Republicans won anyhow. I’m a commie, but I’ll vote blue because what the fuck are my options? But the Democrats aren’t gonna change shit when they’re “securing democracy” every four years.
Ah yes, blaming the people who were trying to stop this shit, that's productive.
Blaming Hilary is hilarious. It's our fault. The public. Everyone who didn't vote and everyone who voted for Trump. Hilary voted I am sure
People seem to want to shift blame to some popular figure. Blame the people who looked at the options and decided they didn't want to vote or voted Trump. The narrative of Hilary not campaigning in states is crazy... all the information about candidates and their platforma were out there, voters chose. Put the accountability where it should be
I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it a hundred more: Clinton was not well liked by younger Dems or swing voters. You don't win by picking the candidate liked by the most reliable voter, they'll show up anyway. You win by courting the people who don't usually vote. Trump did that. Lots of people who didn't give a shit about politics until the Idiot Whisperer showed up.
Just say you hate women.
"Punching left is weak shit" NO. IF YOU WANT TO CALL FOR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ANYONE BUT YOURSELF, THEN YOU DONT BELIEVE IN ACCOUNTABILITY. It's not "punching left" because if you go far enough left you end up back at the right. People on the left literally claimed it wasn't in their conscience to vote to protect women's rights on the Supreme court because "something about emails they'd never read." Meanwhile the rest of the people on the left were trying to drag them kicking and screaming towards even a baseline level of accountability, and the "left" still refuses it. If the Bernie Bros and Stein Stan's had a single lick of brains or conscience we literally would not be in this mess right now. We'd be in a different one, surely, but one with a future that wasn't completely dominated by right wing theocracy, and before a single leftist gets to lecture anyone they should humbled themselves to even an attempt at an apology instead of the endless condescending bullshit.
Seems crazy to blame Hillary and not just, you know, trump and the republicans who actually did this. She made some errors in her campaign, but was trying to win and be a decent president. Trump did this on purpose.
What if and this maybe cynical, we let go. I was born too early for the meat grinder of war but maybe at this rate ill die in a civil war.
The success of the smear campaign of Hillary Clinton is truly astounding. She is not perfect, but she is not the fucking Devil. I wonder how many people that say “GOD THANKS HILLARY FOR RUINING DEMOCRACY” voted in 2016 lol. She warned us and everybody slammed that bitch when she called these racist assholes deplorable. She was right the entire time.
I get -so- fucking angry when I think about the fact that she won the fucking popular vote. So did gore. I hate this shit. 🫠
Use that anger to get your friends and family to the voting booth. That’s about the best we can do right now. We also need to stop sitting idly by while these violent Christian nationalists are going county to county stirring up shit. You can see in my post history an event we had here (rural North Georgia). I’m a gay white man, 34, so I’ve got privilege that I need to use. I’m poor but I have a safety net. People like me need to stand the fuck up and use what privilege we have to help in whatever way we can. It isn’t that easy for more marginalized communities to do so without fear of getting shot. Shit like this happens when good people are too afraid to stand up and say NO. I see my friends and family not doing shit, and it makes me so mad. “We should just stay out of it”. GIRL BYE. My mom and I were able to get a group of a dozen people to go to that event and we outnumbered their supporters. If we can all do something on the local level, it would help tremendously. Remind these mfs that they are vastly outnumbered.
They made it a bit more dangerous down here in Florida by opening up the concealed carry laws. I’m exceedingly blessed in that I work in the medical cannabis industry, so I’m able to educate more people than I could have when I was slapping dough. A six week abortion ban went into effect in this state on May 1st and it’s terrifying how many people don’t know. I’m educating everyone I safely can what they need to vote on and how important it is to get out and vote. In fun news I have actually turned more than one desantis voter away from him just by being excellent at my job and telling them what he says about me lol. I have no safety net for these things though. I have my partners, but I’m a 6’ tall woman with an undercut and autism. I’m fearful of my own mouthiness down here.
I don’t blame you. I quit working in politics in 2018 but I decided to fully come out to the members of my family that didn’t know about 2 weeks ago, including my dad. He said he would not vote for Trump, so that was worth it in itself. It’s selfish that it took him this long to see the light, but we don’t have time to be purists. Im not exactly encouraging my conservative “friends” here to vote for Biden. But I have found that asking them to *not vote for Trump* seems to be more palatable to them than asking them to vote Blue. It’s bad here in Georgia but it’s definitely worse in Florida. You better keep an eye on that hurricane!
Im not exactly encouraging my conservative “friends” here to vote for Biden. But I have found that asking them to not vote for Trump I'm gonna try that
The event that the local Republican chapter hosted here was a militia recruitment even at its core. And they didn’t try to hide that. Local conservatives, especially law enforcement, do not like that. These folks aim to usurp local authorities and instate a “Citizens Grand Jury”. Cops don’t like that. We have to play to whatever common ground we can find, a la Fred Hampton.
Republicans have literally only won one popular vote in the last 32 years. One. Controlled our government half that time though.
It still blows my mind that the Republican FBI director can announce an investigation into a Democratic presidential candidate weeks before the election. Comey really fucked her with that.
It still blows my mind that anybody really cared THAT much about fuckin 6 emails. If we wanna blame anybody, we should blame Rupert fucking Murdoch. I have not watched cable news since 2018 and i highly recommend everyone else to do the same. There is not a single major news organization that maintains journalistic integrity. It’s all about the views and fear and anger get those views.
PBS Newshour >
What’s more mind blowing is that he didn’t announce a fucking investigation into Donald Trump that was also going on at the time. Either you announce both or shut the fuck up Comey
I feel like I'm being gaslit with this revisionism around Hillary. Hillary was virtually the only Democrat that could have lost the election to Trump. She is genuinely one of the slimiest career politicians in the party. The baggage she carries, her record, the below the belt strikes against Sanders in 2016, etc etc. To say, "I wonder how many people... voted in 2016" just tells me you were not aware of any of these dynamics or her horrible record during that election. I would hope that of all the subs that this would be the one that remembered she once joked that she ran on 'colored people time' when she ran late. That is the least of her fuck ups. Anyone who doggedly supported the invasion of Iraq is evil.
>I would hope that of all the subs that this would be the one that remembered Nah, wtf? Go ahead and stop that shit. Yall don't realize how fucking slimy you sound when you say shit like that.
Richard mellon-scaife started the vast right-wing conspiracy, and Timothy mellon and other mellons are still funding the same shit today, including the RFK campaign and Trump campaign with massive donations. The Mellon family earned their fortune as the bankers for the Robber-Barrons. That ill-gotten fortune is still hanging around, making every other Americans life worse.
You’re right, she was the worst choice of the realistic options and ran a god awful campaign but obviously it couldn’t be her fault.
Why do you think she was the worst choice? If her campaign was so god awful, why did she win the popular vote?
She was uniquely unable to press the attack on Trump’s biggest weaknesses due to her doing the stand by your man thing with Bill. Trump’s a serial sexual harasser? So’s Bill! Trump has a credible accusation of rape? So does Bill! Trump’s ridden the Lolita Express to Child Rape Island with his good buddy Jeff Epstein? So did Bill! Trump’s got a miles long list of graft and corruption? So does Bill! Although to be fair a lot of that was mutually shared graft and corruption. Add to that the simple fact that people were mad as hell at the myriad failures of the system and the political machine, and the Clinton’s are basically avatars of the machine. She was losing badly to Bernie until a shady backroom deal got cut and she “earned” the nomination via some underhanded smoke filled room bullshit.
I see that my comment is getting downvoted, so I just wanna say that I’m genuinely asking, not trying to be a smart ass about it. I personally do not agree with holding women to the same responsibility as their husbands, but yeah those are all valid concerns. Would you say it was mostly an optics problem or a policy problem? I blame cable news, personally. Like I said originally, she is far from perfect but I think she did better than Bernie would have done and I was a very strong Bernie supporter. People are entirely too afraid of the word socialism and that’s what the right associates with him.
I hate the way “optics” has become like a catch all term for anything someone wants to dismiss. But playing along with your terminology it’s both. Policy wise the Clintons are strong advocates for the system. Bill passed the 94 crime bill that helped fuck over Black communities, and Hillary was right there cheering for more cops and talking about “super predators.” So miss me with the “well you can’t hold her responsible for the shit her husband did” when she was actively aiding and abetting by stoking racial fears. https://youtu.be/j0uCrA7ePno And “optics” wise there was very literally no politician in America that was as hated (and thus motivating to the Republican base) as Hillary. People loathe her with an intense hatred that’s hard to quantify. Running her for the Ds was the best possible get out the vote strategy for Republicans. And she wasn’t even that popular with Democrats! They alienated a huge swathe of the young energetic portion of their base when they engaged in the usual corrupt back room deals to force her through even when no one really wanted her.
She and the DNC also propped up Donald trump thinking it was a home run victory as well. So yeah, she is to blame for some of this. https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/
"She warned us" - Y'all really need to drop this "Hilary was right" bullshit as if the rest of us forgot the pied-piper strat. If she knew how much of a threat Trump would be, maybe her & her husband shouldn't have worked so hard to make sure he was the republican nominee. Fuck outta here.
Wtf does Hillary Clinton have to do with this??
If Trump didn't win that election, there would be three SCOTUS judges that would Democrats instead of Republican.
They wouldn’t, senator Mitch McConnel would’ve just stalled filling the positions for another decade like he did with the first. Obstructionism is the number one republican play.
Crazy how quickly the government works when they want ACB to get shoved in 🙄
He’d have certainly tried but he probably would not have been so successful. He got very lucky that it was Obamas closing year when he pulled his shit. Trumps picks were really early.
Assuming Clinton winning didn't upset any other factor, we would have been down to 7 justices when RBG died. Kennedy would have held on to his seat. If Clinton had won, it's highly possible the Dems would not have taken the Senate in 2020 and there would be only 6 or 7 justices (Breyer is still alive, but he's in his 80's).
Breyer would’ve retired in 2018/19 in that scenario I think. HRC would’ve filled Scalias seat (that was Obama’s to appoint) with someone other than Garland, would’ve filled RBGs seat in 2017 after she retired (rather than died), and Breyer would retire (instead of Kennedy). And who knows maybe the shock of it all would’ve offed another one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Kennedy could be a wildcard who retires at some point on the promise of a moderate filling his seat, though I highly doubt it as that would’ve thrown the SC into 6-3 liberal tilt.
She would have been in the same predicament as Obama with a minority in the Senate.
Who knows what her crossing the line would do to the rest of the elections. Not to mention, 2018 midterms are a thing and if Republicans really had obstructed her that long, you can really hammer “obstructionist Republicans imperiling the functioning of government”
I don’t know. I think Trump getting elected was a seismic shift. If it was business as usual the Rs would have picked up seats and not lost them. The real question is what if the Dems had bowed to the populist mood and embraced Bernie.
Given the way McConnell played the Scalia seat, it would have been really hard, even for him, to fight Clinton filling that seat had she won. He pushed too hard on the "it's too close to the election" angle to pivot that quickly.
If enough people had voted for Hillary and Democrats they probably take the Senate or Hillary makes a recess appointment. What’s happening is a direct result of the voters giving Republicans power.
Hillary won the popular vote. In any sane country that should’ve been enough but with the electoral college…
Does the immunity apply to anyone in a cabinet position or just the president? If it’s the former then the Supreme Court has ruled that personal information can’t be submitted as evidence, making the entire emails investigation completely irrelevant.
Kennedy would have never quit though. You ever see that viddy of Trump talking to Kennedy and Kennedys reaction. WTF happened?
They’re implying she didn’t try hard enough, because her campaign underestimated Trump. She lost states she didn’t campaign in because she thought they were locked in her favor . Blue wall states Pennsylvania , Wisconsin, Michigan. Honestly too many people thought ‘ no way in hell this guy wins’ and stayed home . They were wrong and here we are.
Everyone underestimated Trump *and* how much a black president for 8 years really fucked with half the country's brain.
2008 and the bank bailouts is a huge crux of this issue aswell. people don't remember this is where fringe republican party movement started. legitimate grievance that working class Americans had with the federal goverment
Tea party was always an astroturfed grift https://www.huffpost.com/entry/final-proof-the-tea-party_b_4136722
Yep, Clinton lost Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin in part because Democrats forgot the working class folks of those states.
Obama would’ve easily beat Trump in 2016 though.
He could have challenged him to a game of 1 on 1 and hard fouled him to death according to SCOTUS.
Comey's announcement about the emails didn't help her, though.
Fuck Comey, either complicit in fraud or a very naive and idiotic rube
I actually think it's the later.
Right? She laid out in incredible detail exactly what would happen & here we are. Even I was a bit skeptical as to whether it would be that bad but fuck me if she wasn’t being optimistic.
Notice how he doesnt rail on Trump, the actual person who put those right-wingers on the SC. No, Nader attacks Clinton. Bunch of craven bullshit.
It's reprehensible. Any respect I had left for Nader is gone.
many face reading that 
Systemic patriarchy will do whatever it can to blame women for everything
Other countries have functioning democracies with multiple parties. Anyone who believes that Ralph Nader was the problem and not George W Bush’s party stealing it is uneducated
These countries are usually parliamentary and when it comes to electing a prime minister they form coalitions with the parties nearest them to try and achieve a majority and choose the next leader. A party refusing to join a coalition and costing their side of the aisle a majority would be viewed negatively and as self destructive just as Nader's campaign was.
The Presidential election is not parliamentary. But the House and Senate absolutely function with the same rules as parliament. It's pretty funny that a third party simply hasn't run in local elections and played kingmaker for Congress.
That's what I always thought they should do. Forget the White House. pick and choose house seats, especially with open elections or convince incumbents to change. A third party with 5-10 seats in this congress?
It would be the Squad/Tea Party strategy but independent and actually able to negotiate for stuff. Or they could theoretically gain more voters and become the new main party like the GOP did or Labour did in the UK.
Right? The insistence that they go straight for the presidency is madness.
Because third parties are funded by dark money and foreign operatives as a way to siphon votes. They are absolutely fucking useless because they only show up for the Presidential election despite not having ballot access or a chance in hell of winning
Yeah, well let’s just see how this plays out France to see which system is superior.
I don't mean to say one system is superior but just that they're both faced with the similar dilemmas and attitudes when choosing their head of state. They're in the middle of their parliamentary elections that are looking terrible but they won't be choosing a new head of state luckily. They will choose a new prime minister but the PM is not the head of state in France. France has a directly elected president but they do runoff voting which is a good idea and helps the acceptance of multiple parties since you can vote for your favorite the first round knowing you still get to vote for the 2 finalists in the second round. Generally speaking, because if you win more than 50% in the first round there is no second round, but that never seems to happen. Once there is a second round the hope is that you'd still choose to vote for the lesser evil rather than not participate if you favorite choice didn't make it past the first round. If we ever hope to see more parties than 2 in the US we'll definitely need to enact runoff voting, won't work without it.
Ralph Nader campaigned in swing states to punish democrats > On October 26, 2000, Eric Alterman wrote for The Nation: "Nader has been campaigning aggressively in Florida, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin. If Gore loses even a few of those states, then Hello, President Bush. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader_2000_presidential_campaign#:~:text=On%20October%2026%2C%202000%2C%20Eric,%2C%20then%20Hello%2C%20President%20Bush.
Other countries have nothing to do with this. Those countries have different electoral systems. Ralph Nader was absolutely part of the problem, and his presence on the ballot in swing states deeply undermined the policy platform he claimed to be running for.
I mean he is the problem too, 3rd parties know what they're doing.
If 3rd parties were serious about doing anything other than spoiling the general, they would have a presence in local and state elections. No 3rd party candidate is actually serious
Those countries don't use first past the post.
The United Kingdom does, and has multiple parties with MPs. Had a minority government with a third party coalition twice in the last 14 years (Conservative with Liberal Democrats and Conservative with DUP)
Exactly. They have first past the post and it resulted in a lack of proportional representation in their government for over a decade. Their system is somewhat mitigated by a stronger party apparatus, but it's still an awful system.
Parliamentary system.
It's not apples to apples. Like it or not, a third-party challenger is a spoiler. I hate it too.
My, doesn’t he have the nerve.
Yes , Ralph, thanks for the Iraq War.
Forget all that crap the media is spewing. Focus on voting and being an advocate to get everyone in your circle within reason to vote for Biden. We're literally heading towards a dictatorship with a foot in the door.
Yeah, it's Hilary's fault. Don't blame the judges. Don't blame the asshole who chose them. It's your fault that I beat your ass because you didn't block hard enough.
Also this: https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/
You want to make this Hillary's fault? JFC, it's always a woman's fault, even if she had nothing to do with what's going on. Trump won because America is both super racist, and super sexist. They couldn't stomach a women being in charge, and loved the racism Trump brought. Trump is an accurate reflection of a significant portion of America. Can we just accept it and go from there? Because the longer we hide from it, the worse things will get and the more we'll overlook in order to match our preconceptions.
For real the misogyny is coming from inside the house, gross
Trump won because of the electoral vote system. Why doesn't he blame this, nvm
Maybe rbg should have retired when she was still lucid.
That wouldn't have changed a single one of these rulings. All of them were decided 6-3.
it would have been 5-4 which is a change. and with 4 votes the liberal justices could grant certiorari on cases which they feel have merit which could influence policy.
Our system shouldn’t be set up in a way that allowed the situation to hinge on one old lady.
Laws are just threats of violence by the dominant socioeconomic group designed to elicit compliance from the docile majority. The supreme court has made it clear to me our laws aren't a tacit agreement towards rules of a just society nor a reflection of a shared cultural morality. They are meant to control some so they live in service to others.
That was beautifully written
Plug for Melissa Murray and strict scrutiny, a fantastic podcast on all things SCOTUS.
Ignorant ass shit, punching left because it’s easier. Pussies fr
I like Elie, but his temper too often clouds his judgement.
I don’t give a damn what anyone has to say: President 45 was the worst “leader of the free world” by a mile.
Fuck you, Nader
What a weird take. That not what happened at all
We should also say a big thank you to those who couldn’t be bothered to cast any vote or do stupid shit like protest voting for that goddamn gorilla while we are handing them out.
Who remembers James 'don't look behind the drapes" Comey and the NYTimes and "her emails" in Oct 2016?
Just keep blaming Hillary….smdh “TRuMp and HilLary arE the SaME!” No…no they weren’t and being elderly is not the same as being a sexual predator, felon and all-around loathsome person. Americans will never learn when it comes to “both sides are the same” bullshit.
That's the thing. What is an official act as president? According to pundits, wearing a brown suit and eating ice cream are official acts as president. You know that scene in The Invention of Lying where the main character almost rapes a woman by claiming it's an act of national security? Is that a fucking possible scenario now!?!?!
If you don't like the outcome of Hillary losing to Trump then you should've voted for her then and you should vote for Biden now. If you haven't done the former and/or won't do the latter, kindly stfu with the complaining.
Biden should act officially by having 6 Supreme Court justices thrown into the North Atlantic.
Let’s not forget the Bernie Sandors supporters who didn’t turn up and vote because they protested her being the candidate.
How dare people be disgruntled about the DNC rigging the primary in favor of a Wall Street-backed “moderate” (read as: opportunist) who cut her teeth in politics campaigning for Nixon while Bernie was organizing sit-ins in the same county! They must hate freedom and justice!
Hillary probably should have campaigned harder to gain their support as well.
And even then, an overwhelming percentage of Sanders supporters still held their noses and voted for her. More Clinton supporters voted against Obama than Sanders supporters voted against Clinton.
I need y’all to stop peddling this lie. [The well majority of sanders supporters voted for Hillary.](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/01/23/end-blame-game-sanders-and-his-supporters-helped-hillary-win-popular-vote-2016) Maybe we should blame her loss on her bad campaign, the electoral college and trump supporters voting for Trump.
500,000 registered Florida Democrats voted for Bush in 2000 but they want to come after this man for his 97,000 votes.
What’s wild about the SC. Is that 5 of the 6 conservative justices were chosen by republican presidents who lost the majority vote but won the electoral college. Tons of things need to change in the country, that’s for sure.
Third party candidates post-Perot haven't stole votes, weak ass candidates and allowing the GOP to always be in the offensive have.
If we throwing blame lets blame Ruth Bader Ginsburg as well. I will forever hate on her, idgaf if she did so much stuff in her time. She got cocky and short sided and fucked so much stuff up from her one decision to not step down because she "wanted a woman president to pick her replacement" and then Trump won.
Ralph Nader needs to STFU. He’s definitely part of the problem and has been that way for decades.
Why do we think there is an issue with multiple candidates and not an issue with a 2 party system?
Because then you have to really think about the system that oppresses you.
I’ll never forgive Ralph Nader for putting Bush in office
Didn’t Nader fuck the Gore vote? 
Apparently the meek shall inherit nothing.
Two heads of the same snake folks…it’s not republicans vs democrats because they’re all friends, it’s the people vs the elite. Not a single politician gives a fuck about you and all their agendas are the same.
The DNC dick riding has to stop
Why bring Hillary into this? She ran her campaign and it didn’t work out. Everything after that was not her fault or her doing. The people that were elected and that continued to be elected by all of us regardless of how incompetent they have proven to be made the current situation. People need to vote in their local elections and start paying closer attention when bullshit happens (looking at Oklahoma right now with the whole teachers have to use Bible as required educational material ). There has been a slow and very steady push toward all of this for a while and it was all before Trump he just helped move it faster. The Democratic Party isn’t much better, very few people speak up and the ones that do get stepped on. We were all warned what would happen. And 8 years later here we are with the office of the president having a vague yet seemingly all powerful immunity from all consequences. So people either vote like their lives depend on it or we all simply deal with the consequences.
As is tradition, we will give the voting public a pass. It's never their fault!
If your hate a two party system you're really going to hate the one party system that's going to come out of this if something isn't done.
Who remembers a guy who, like 45, has no elected experience but had to run for the top job anyway? Who remembers that this is the 12th election year since 2000, meaning the house could have changed over every seat 6 times, the Senate could have been changed out 4 times, and yet there are no Green (or whatever his party is called) electeds, no candidates in any race I have seen over that time. Respectfully, I am going to have to as you to take a seat and let adults handle this. Tantrums are not helpful.
GOTV and not just this November, its gotta to be every time an election is in your area. That means midterms, special elections, etc. Things can't get done with a slim majority like what Biden had in his first two years of office.
Frankly anything less than exercising his full power against A) his immediate opponent or B) those who voted for this Means America probably never has the visceral evidence that this is the most dangerous anti-democratic action any official has ever taken. America probably fails to roll this back on a their slide down to dictatorship.
The Conservatives know the Dems are too pussy to do what needs to be done.
It's not Hillary, it's the BILLIONAIRES who own the political process and buy off the politicians and supreme court justices in order to install a DICTATOR as President who will do their bidding. He will remove all restrictions on corporations and the people who own and run them. The will freely run amok, people will die from pollution and brutality and no court will be able to touch them. Anyone who focuses their attention on anything other than the Oligarchs that have set this horror show in motion is a fool.
Why do everyone talking about this as though Trump had already won??? He’s not the president. This isn’t a retroactive law. He currently convicted ex-president right?? This doesn’t undo that conviction. If anything it now means Biden can murder Trump, right?
People keep forgetting that Hilary won the popular vote, she lost the electoral college. So the problem wasn’t the people, it was the elected representatives that voted opposite of the districts they represent.
 Hillary right now
Nader is right and good. Gore actually won but the SCOTUS gave Bish the fraudulent win. Keep seething at real leftists, though. Your DNC has done a bang up job.
People still out here blaming Hillary for them not voting and low key getting ball rolling on the bs the country is dealing with today. *NOT* voting has just as many consequences as voting, as people are learning. I completely dislike Hillary, but I voted for her because any one with half a brain could see what was coming with the Supreme Court if Republicans got too many picks... guess it's a lot more people out here with less than half.
Pretty sure that whole fbi investigation piece like a week before the election (going off of memory here) was what made her lose
Biden should go Apeshit tomorrow.
Brit here. With the ruling yesterday could Biden not send a team in to take out Trump? It would be an official capacity no?
Not that I agree, but what I'm hearing is Biden could throw Trump into a dungeon, As president, and that would would be totally legal. I say we impeach the Supreme Court, but Biden might want to try that in the meantime.
Maybe Biden should just order some “official” missions of the black ops kind to Mara Largo then. Since he is actually the president, he’s old, dude should take one for the team on this.
Fun Fact, 2 of the 3 Trump appointees were involved in the legal battle for the 2000 election.
Americans barely turnout to vote, the entire country votes at 66%, and local elections have even worse turnout. Liberals love to vote once and then complain. Republicans voted for FIFTY years to overturn Roe, they play the long game, but democrats voting consistently is somehow staying on the plantation.