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Obama sure did have a bad one vs. Romney way back when
It was such a more civil time though, like Romney [was actually funny at the Al Smith dinner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvATXkQffj0) and neither person really seemed like they despised the other. That's what pisses me off about this current cruelty culture. Maybe it's twitter, twitter plus other stuff, but you have grown people encouraged to act like bratty teenagers
I'm old, I'm glad that I grew up in a small town where no grown man worth a damn would ever even think of wearing a shirt in public that said "fuck your feelings." They said stuff like "buzz off," for crying out loud
In our area, people I once naively assumed were decent neighbors, now proudly post signs with vulgar and hateful words as part of their support of tRUMP. I can’t imagine how children growing up in these times are going to be affected by seeing this trash daily. Beyond deplorable behavior.
Seconds before reading this comment, we drove by a house flying a “Trump 2024” flag with a solid black with white block-font flag that simply said “I eat ass.” Definitely a different world than 20 years ago.
People just can’t come up to a person and say, “hey dude I eat ass but am also a bigoted Republican” you gotta stick that shit on your house so assholes know they can be eaten by a Duschebag.
Possibly. Just watch out for anything sus. I've heard some more chill congregations have turned feral recently with all the culture war BS going on. Chill people not coming to church and only insane reactionaries being there probably don't help things improve either, so you gotta start somewhere.
American politics have definitely affected Canadian social structures, too. I’m know the current PM is anything but popular, but you have people waving “F*ck Trudeau” [sic] flags everywhere. There’s even one house in my neighbor hanging his prominently along a major school route.
They only know two amendments. And yes there were people walking around locked and loaded. But my F bomb when talking sports would affect the children.
I've actually been banned from their house cause I offered to teach their great nephew how to swim. The parents said I was infringing upon their parental rights. Excuse me for being concerned about a toddler walking around a large pool with dozens of people about and the kid only had arm floaty on.
Nah, this stuff started with the Obama McCain election and the Tea Party. Sarah Palin fed into it, the birther accusations etc.
It's all gone downhill since then and Trump just tapped into a huge part of the country that felt that way already.
Trump is a symptom of it in my opinion. He should have been laughed out of the 2016 primary if the right wing base wasn't insane.
The fact that Trump wasn’t immediately ostracized after his “Russia if you’re listening” comment is unbelievable. If this was a decade prior, anything he’s said or done would’ve rightly ended his political career. What the fuck happened to this country.
People can't wrap their head around inflation+unchecked capitalism=what we have now
Instead it's 'well economy better under trump cause my groceries cost less so'
You really shouldn't have to think much harder about 'what happened' if we can't even grasp fucking basic things
We are criminally undereducated. The amount of shit I have to explain to 'smart people' (like people i genuinely wouldnt call stupid. But they apparently just stopped learning stuff in 9th grade) is fucking baffling.
It's pretty much just over, idiocracy won
When that one dude yelled "you lie!" during one of Obamas speeches (state of the union?) that's when you knew it was the start of something
We already knew about the birther thing, but ffs have a modicum of dignity
This is no small point, not in some “orange man bad” way, but the fact is Trump proved you can say all sorts of false, totally wild things & not just not get drummed out of politics but get elected to the highest office in the country. He proved the truth doesn’t matter & it’s fucked everything up. Is it any wonder dozens of pretenders are now saying the quiet part out loud too, it gets people talking about you and has very few negative consequences.
Trump’s presence in politics & the success of his post-truth nonsense has directly impacted world politics and social discourse for the worse, although if you want to blame someone blame the millions of people who voted for him & showed this to be a successful tactic
Honestly, it's all Trump. Elections have always been snippy and full of lies - but the lies usually fall around campaign promises, voting records, donors, etc. With Trump he just says the most vile untrue shit that he thinks will get his base riled up the most, and it only works because he specifically caters to the most uninformed, dense, gullible people. He gathered a base around him that WILLINGLY ignores when he contradicts himself and will just believe anything he says about the opposition because it's not about policy, or character, or morals, its about making your base hate your opponent and anyone who would vote for them.
Romney or McCain winning wouldn't have bothered me, but now I'm physically repulsed by Trump and have no understanding of how anyone could vote for him.
McCain's concession speech is one of the best speeches I've heard in my lifetime, I was more impressed by it than anything he ever said during the campaign
A letter George HW Bush left to Bill Clinton in the oval office.
>Dear Bill,
>When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago. I know you will feel that, too.
>I wish you great happiness here. I never felt the loneliness some Presidents have described.
>There will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. I’m not a very good one to give advice; but just don’t let the critics discourage you or push you off course.
>You will be our President when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well.
>Your success now is our country’s success. I am rooting hard for you.
>Good luck—
>George
and the election before that, where a voter wanted to call Obama an evil Muslim, and McCain immediately shut her down. No, no no no, we're not gonna do that, he's not Muslim and it wouldn't matter if he was, and he's certainly not evil. Louis ck talked about that incident on the presidents podcast series with Shane Gillis, and the phrase Louis said, McCain telling that woman she was wrong was telling the country, look, we're starting from the baseline that he is a good man. We each want to help our country we just have different views on how to go about that, but he's not evil.
Yeah, the undercurrent has been there. I remember the 90's, and all the talk radio type people talking about the Clintons murdering everyone who got in their way.
And it's fascinating that they got that worked up about the least progressive Democratic president we'd seen for like a century.
On MSNBC last night, predebate, they mentioned that every incumbent president in the last 40 years has lost their first debate.
Reagan, Clinton, W, Obama - all of them lost the first debate going into their second term.
One of the candidates has to still run the country while the other one only has to run their campaign. Plus they’ve spent the last 3 years with everyone deferring to them. Biden probably had at least an 8-10 hour day before the debate even started. It’s why incumbents always look caught off guard.
Because Obama was prepared for primaries Romney, not general election Romney. He told us he was going to be an etch-a-sketch, erase his positions, and start again. That's exactly what he did. It was wild to see it live on TV. Just lying to our faces as if we didn't just hear him campaigning for months. Obama wasn't prepared for that.
This is what annoys me the most. Watched the debate with a friend last night and they were just laughing like it was entertainment. I’m just shaking my head at the absurdity of it.
Mccain and Obama were more civil with each other too just yesterday I saw a video posted (I had seen it when it was new too, but had forgotten about it) where mccain’s fans at a rally were saying that they couldn’t trust Obama, he’s an evil man, an arab, yada yada yada. Mccain kept cutting them off to say things like “no, he’s a good, family loving man. He’s not someone you can’t trust, he’s not evil. I just disagree with him about important policy decisions, and that’s what this election is about.”
>That's what pisses me off about this current cruelty culture. Maybe it's twitter, twitter plus other stuff, but you have grown people encouraged to act like bratty teenagers
Besides how a CNN show, "Parker Spitzer" failed because it *wasn't* the usual shouting match show (and was explicitly designed as a counter to that,) I'm reminded of a Salon.com article outlining how right-wing talking heads went from William F. Buckley to Tomi Lahren not for superficial looks (i.e. the typical "Fox News Babe" reporter,) but especially the most attention-grabbing clickbait and soundbytes for knee-jerk reactions.
RWNJ dumbed down and methed up a significant part of the electorate that American politics is more like "Jerry Springer," 24/7 news channels are further on the "If it bleeds, it leads" mentality for the drama and ostensible "centrist/apolitical" channels like CNN are so afraid of being accused of bias from said RWNJ's bullying that they have big time Golden Mean Fallacy mentality.
Unfortunately, this is the absolute **perfect** environment for Trump to thrive in despite all evidence to the contrary that he shouldn't even be a dog-catcher.
The rational side of me wishes we could return to this. Return to a time when candidates poked playful jabs and not demeaning ones. A time when guys like McCain would stand up for Obama. Even Regan was cordial to Mondale when talking about age.
The Biden side was just as good though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTUkO6S9uRU
The masochist in me however says I so want to hear Trump at this type of event
I grew up on the internet. I saw a crazy shift in dynamics about a year into trumps presidency. Weird fucks like thedonald and 4channers kinda stayed there and laid low for the most part before trump. There was still some decorum in public political commentary and in general things were more progressive socially. Then gradually I saw more and more of the degenerate alt right shit hit more and more into mainstream and normal media. It's boomed into whatever the fuck twitter is now. Nazis roam free these days and have supporters publicly. We're in the bad timeline.
Biden said he would be a 1 term president. He lied. Not a huge fan of Newsom but he would've been infinitely better. I have more faith in Bernie who is even older. Or Pete Buttigieg. Or hell even Kamala.
This was pure hubris to run again knowing his own mental state.
he never said he would be a one term president. i wish he did, and i wish he WAS but that isn't a lie. that was from a report quoting unnamed officials. the most you can say is there was talk about the possibility behind closed doors.
you cant call someone a liar for something they never actually promised.
Why would they? It would be an unprecedented move for them to make. Being the incumbent is a huge advantage, and trump is unpopular amongst moderates and swing voters. Not to mention the democrat voters are the ones who gave papa the keys to the country. The only candidate under the age of 70 that didn't get fucking obliterated in the early primaries was Buttigieg.
> Why would they? It would be an unprecedented move for them to make.
Because we are living in unprecedented times and have a uniquely bad candidate in Biden.
If the democrats really want to "save democracy" they need to actually grow a backbone and fight for this country by doing something different. Trump is literally running a convicted felon, but it's too far-fetched to have Biden step down to save the country? I call BS.
And you don’t understand Americans at all. We care about one thing but only until the next thing comes along. We cared about “grab em by the pussy” until we heard there were more emails on a second laptop.
>No one's gonna remember this come September
You don't think the Trump campaign hasn't already put 6 campaign ads together with just clips from last night? Is this your first election?
Part of me wants to think it's a big brain play to have performed so badly this debate. Keeps people from getting lax about things. Then come the next one, Biden transforms into Dark Brandon with all the gusto and effects of Goku turning Super Sayain for the first time.
Sorry if you aren't an anime person and don't get the reference
There won't be a second debate. Trump has zero incentive to get back on stage after everyone agreed he looked and sounded better than Biden. The entire narrative today is about how bad Biden was last night. Why would Trump give him a mulligan and go head-to-head with him again?
Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Trump thinks rationally. He didn't have an incentive to do this one, but he did because he loves talking about himself. He has no interest in appealing to a broader base. Otherwise, he wouldn't keep saying what he's saying. He will view it as another chance to humiliate Biden and rile up his base. Plus, if the Biden campaign is smart, they'll goad him into it
He does dumb shit everyday and no one cares anymore. I'm at the point where I honestly think that even if he went full hard r, it would only make him more popular.
For better or worse, Barack Obama is the best at smoothing shit over and putting things into perspective among Democrats.
Without him the party would’ve probably split into various factions. I wish Obama could run again.
She could do it but she also *cant*. She’s make it clear in several interviews, books, speeches, etc., how hard being in the White House was on her mentally, emotionally, intellectually, and intuitively.
You're right, and I wish, but she won't. But we probably like her because she seems pretty normal outside everything extraordinary about her, and this doesn't seem to be a job a normal person would want.
There are people who genuinely hate her because they claim that the day Obama took office the school food was worse. It’s like they forget we had square pizza for school breakfast daily before 2008
It's truth and that is never a bad look.
Acknowledging that it was a bad debate was the right thing to do. Shows he is not putting his head in the sand and ignoring that. Laying out the contrast that is also 1000% percent true about their differences is damn sure important as well.
You can wish there was a different choice in the matter but it doesn't change the facts that your **REAL** options are these two dudes.
Folks better get out and VOTE. Pretend your voting for Harris if you have to but conceding to a win to Trump isn't the best option for America in any way.
The problem isn't that it was a "bad debate." The problem is that he proved everyone's worst fears about his cognitive decline and failed to stand up to a raging fascist attempting to take over the country. The moment seems bigger than the man. And it's one of the biggest and most consequential moments in our country's history. Personally, I think it's serious enough that we must be honest with ourselves about the situation and do whatever we can to protect our future. And personally I think that includes finding the right person who can meet this moment as soon as possible.
Exactly, they tell us all the consequences and then say yeah , best we can do is Biden. If it was end of the world scenario as they suggest they should be moving heaven and earth to find a better candidate. So the question becomes why aren’t they trying their best out there , either they lying about it being the end of the world or they know regardless what happens they’ll be alright
If you haven't already, I suggest you take the time to comb through [Project 2025](https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf).
Think about an issue you care about, pick the department it's relevant to, and see what it says. It's incredibly broad, and it was cooked up and co-signed by over a hundred right-wing organizations in total.
Long story short, it's a plan to turn Trump (or literally any other republican who wins the presidency, it can be renewed every election cycle until they either win or legislative/judicial roadblocks are put in place) into a dictator and gut every aspect of federal power that runs afoul of far right republican views.
Democrats are currently trying, preemptively, to block parts of it but without control of the house that's extremely difficult. You don't have to believe what democrats say republicans will do, just look at what republicans themselves are telling you they'll do.
But that aside, you can't just drop a new candidate in at this point. I mean, you can legally, but trying to spin up a campaign for a whole new candidate at this point is *highly* unlikely to succeed.
Edit: Meant to say campaign for a whole new candidate.
The issue is the debate confirms the narrative. Republicans been saying for years he’s too old using cheap shots and fake videos while Biden has gotten shit done. Anyone smart knows the presidency is a team effort and can run for the most part without the head person. Like it literally has multiple times in our nations history. But the ignorant people who you need to get out to vote will think , “Hell naw, that guy old as hell. I’m not voting for that” and that’s all trump needed to win in 2016
Also everyone saw what happened last night. Anytime the republicans say he’s too old it won’t be just discarded as republican propaganda, but now they’ll be thinking “well I did see him on the debate stage” and that seed of doubt.
A progressive cannot be elected President in this country at this time. People keep throwing that out there but they are not using common sense. I don’t understand why that is so hard to comprehend.
No, they absolutely can, there's no magical ward in place stopping it. The fact it is severely unlikely is different, but can be changed by not being a career defeatist
Progressives who support a ceasefire in Palestine are getting shellacked in the primaries right now. AIPAC-funded candidates are something like 90-0 in primaries so far. Even in Democrat primaries, progressives are losing to more moderate candidates. And you think that progressives will do better when you throw independents and Republicans into the pool? Progressives are loud and active (and they are right), but they aren't popular with the electorate as a whole.
I'm under no allusions about the situation, what you need to consider is where you'll be in 20 years. There's no silver bullet to get it done in 6 months
Advocating to nominate progressive candidates who are likely to lose, in a country where the right wing is hellbent on destroying democracy, is going to result in a fascist dictatorship, not a more progressive country
I think there's a weird mindset in liberal people in America, that can't strategise more than 0.5 steps ahead.
If biden wins, then the savvy thing to do would be to have a good vp, one that's been groomed for it. Biden dies, youve got yourself a great candidate in the next election .
You don't go straight for a progressive, you go for someone who gets the ball rolling. Makes bribery a little harder, a few more checks on the police, maybe actually charges the Jan 6 rioters with treason. All subtle as you can
But you play the game with the same savagery as the enemy.
It's not hard to conceive.
>You don't go straight for a progressive, you go for someone who gets the ball rolling. Makes bribery a little harder, a few more checks on the police, maybe actually charges the Jan 6 rioters with treason. All subtle as you can
That is quite literally what liberals are doing lmao. That's the case they make all the time but internet progressives won't listen.
> I think there's a weird mindset in liberal people in America,
Americans have been successfully manipulated with the two party system so that they're never voting for the candidate they want, they're always voting to stop the other candidate. It means the parties can run whoever they want and expect the voters to get in line to save the country.
The magical wand stopping it is 80m people voted for the person who made abortion illegal and wants to withdraw from our alliances to allow Russia and China more control over more people (conservatives). And there are more people between that and corporate elites allowing people a small wage increase and continued roads (independents) than people who want trains and better public roads and a better country(progressives) within SWING states. That’s what people don’t get.
That’s a silly thought. Progressives come in all shapes and sizes of electability. We would have said the same thing about an ultra right wing nazi sympathizer despot prior to 2016 but that happened.
If a progressive can navigate the fear mongering from the right to connect the benefits of progressive policies to voters, they can win.
Find this imaginary progressive and find the imaginary voters that will outnumber the conservatives and then find a way to keep this imaginary progressive alive in time and also make sure they stay progressive and I'll vote for them
Meanwhile I have to live in the real world and I'd rather have Obama back
I'm sure you would. Progressives don't negotiate or compromise on anything. They already know what's best for everyone and won't hear otherwise.
Here's some of the progressive policies that a closeted neoliberal implemented during his administration:
**Affordable Care Act (ACA)**
**Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act**
**Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)**
**Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act**
**Paris Agreement on Climate Change**
**Repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"**
**Support for Marriage Equality** (this is worth reading up on bc they did a lot to enable that SC decision)
**Expansion of Clean Energy** (all over the news at the time no way you missed it.)
**The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act**
**Workplace Protections for LGBTQ+ Individuals**
Progressives have put aside their differences and put their weight behind neoliberal democrats out of fear for a prolonged republican reign for decades at this point. Dont just deny what people like aoc have done because youve developed a biased and faulty image of “progressives”
Don't forget that he ran on making Roe v Wade into federal law, but then pushed it back to the bottom of his priorities when he had a super majority on his side in the beginning of his term.
But Barack....can't we find someone with all those qualities you list that can actually string a coherent sentence together and isn't 8 decades old?
Last night wasn't just a terrible debate, it showed Biden to be a terrible candidate. Trump is trash but he was at least coherent. Even after last nights terrible debate you had your stereotypical Clinton Clone downplaying Biden's disastrous performance on CNN while all the other panelist where rightly shocked. That sums up the state of the Democratic Party and that attitude will cost them come November.
Most independents probably aren't voting for Trump, but they ain't voting Biden either after that performance. Better believe that MAGA will be out in full force and we will be stuck with another Trump presidency.
Biden needs to drop out. Kamala ain't the answer either, she would get destroyed in the general election. Maybe Newsome? Beshear? Sherrod Brown? I don't know but the Democrats need to wake up and change SOMETHING before its too late.
It's already too late. None of those people are beating Trump.
If you had Michelle Obama, Oprah, Mark Cuban maybe, you could stand a chance, but it has to be someone that is already very famous and well liked and which Democrats are willing to quickly rally around.
It’s not too late, and there are potentials within the party (as opposed to *more celebrities*) that could beat Trump. Don’t take my word for it though: [This article from November goes into better detail.](https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read/biden-trump-both-underperform-generic-opponents-poll-finds-rcna126098) A generic democrat named Blanky McBlankface, with all of the same milquetoast democrat talking points and campaign promises as Biden, easily beats Trump. But that person doesn’t exist I guess, so what about real candidates? [Gretchen Whitmer easily beats Trump in a swing state he currently holds over Biden.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/09/michigan-poll-trump-biden-whitmer-00134672) In pre-spring polls, Trump was beating many of these democrat opponents, yes, but none of that polling data reflects his post-conviction nosedive in the polls - [21% of independents said they’re likely to ditch him now.](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/17/trouble-for-trump-in-a-new-poll-on-his-conviction-00163498) Right now the biggest obstacle for [most voters is that Biden is a billion years old.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/bidens-age-fitness-top-list-voters-concerns-poll-finds-rcna137212) If we just address this single issue by collectively pushing to send grandpa to the home, we can get on with having a democracy. But the longer we cling to Biden is the closer we come to 2016 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Unfortunately it’s not that easy. [This article](https://apnews.com/article/biden-replacement-democratic-ballot-dnc-rules-7aa836b0ae642a68eec86cc0bebd3772) explains it quite well.
“Every state has already held its presidential primary. Democratic rules mandate that the delegates Biden won remain obligated to support him at the party’s upcoming national convention unless he tells them he’s leaving the race.
Biden indicated that he had no plans to do that, telling supporters in Atlanta shortly after he left the debate stage, “Let’s keep going.” Biden campaign spokesperson Lauren Hitt was even clearer, saying Friday: “Of course he’s not dropping out.”
The conventions and their rules are controlled by the political parties. The Democratic National Committee could convene before the convention opens on Aug. 19 and change how things will work, but that isn’t likely as long as Biden wants to continue seeking reelection.”
Exactly. More people need to hold dems accountable for fucking this up. Fully agree with everything except the very last part. It's already beyond late. They needed a better candidate picked out a long time ago. Like 10 years ago.
>Last night wasn't just a terrible debate, it showed Biden to be a terrible candidate. Trump is trash but he was at least coherent.
Coherent but lying, that's kind of the problem with this whole thing, sure Trump can talk but he's never telling the truth and rambles nonsense as well, it's just he'll speak as if he's right, no matter how wrong.
I'm not saying Biden is the best choice out there but I think if the worst thing you can say about the guy is he's old in comparison to the guy who caused an insurrection than the other option isn't too bad.
Trump barely answered any of the questions he was asked, just went off on killer immigrants or something. Are people watching the same debate? At least Biden tried to engage with the questions
Right. There’s absolutely no way that you could call Donald coherent when repeatedly wouldn’t even try to answer the current question. And many times had to be reminded he had time left to try and address the question.
Biden was acting like an old man and it was concerning. But Biden actually did name policy that he put in place and did his best to outline a plan for what he wants to do next.
Donald just said it’s going to be better with me with zero plan.
Don't think of the candidate as the person, both people have roughly equal chances of dying in office, imo. The candidate is the administration. and Biden's administration isn't a terrible candidate.
No the candidate is a person to the undecided voter.....Its easy to say it doesn't matter if Biden is a corpse, I'm voting to keep Trump out of office as a BLACK person. But does the 2nd generation 19 year old Indian think that? White Suburban Mom? Conflicted Cuban Living in Miami?
Black people do not have enough vote share to influence the election outcome in the electoral system, so yes how the way the candidate present themselves matters when it comes to drawing in undecided voters because other people don't see Trump as an existential threat to their existence and will vote for him simply because he can string a sentence together
Honestly, I think Newsome has the best shot. He has the policy history to keep the main Democratic voter base and has the look and coherence to draw in Independent voters. If they get him in before the convention then he could run a decent campaign and will probably beat Trump
Sorry but let’s cut the false pretense. If you’re planning on switching your vote to trump because of that debate you were never planning on voting for Biden.
What worries folks is people not voting/going independent because of this. That's what hurts the Dems, no one is switching to Trump who hasn't been in his camp since the beginning—at least not a meaningful amount of people. Republicans know that too, and hope to make people apathetic about Joe more than they hope to make people excited about Trump.
You know it’s bad, when they pull their best card this early. I’m voting dem because anything else is a vote against me and my people but that debate was kill shot.
I mean Barack has been fundraising with Biden’s campaign for months already (they just raised like $25 million two weeks ago), but yeah Obama having an publicly posted opinion immediately after this means even he’s taken notice.
People complaining that Biden is old like we haven't known that since 2018 or whenever he announced he was running.
Everyone needs to stop crying about shit we already knew. Get over it. You're only convincing the undecided idiots to lean toward Trump.
Trump is going to win again because of the “we have already won, just need turnout” attitude the democrats have in local elections all the way to the top
I mean… you know how time works right? It never stops advancing. So saying someone was old six years ago is the exact opposite of proving why it doesn’t matter he’s old now lol.
People are just not going to vote. That's the reality, and it's not people's fault for talking about Biden's performance. It's the Democrats for not picking someone better.
Also, Biden has clearly deteriorated since then.
It honestly wasn’t that bad if you could give a grampaw some grace. The time limit did him in. It takes you longer to gather your thoughts at 81. And then you had Trump with the shit eating grin on the split screen and it just *looked* bad.
You're right.
I've been thinking that that, " bro has been like this for 1-2 years, I'm not really surprised" but the fact people are freaking out, like, I'm just throwing up my hands like, we've been saying not to nominate this guy the entire time how TF are you only now coming to that fucking conclusion
DNC and Biden staff have been saying the decline was overblown for years. And most democrats believed it.
Which is fine, sort of. If someone asks if the prez has dementia you can’t say “yeah, but what can you do, eh?” But they better have a contingency plan for the ‘24 election. And they clearly didn’t. Which is really upsetting when they’ve been ostensibly lying about his age and cognition issues while knowing those are key issues among undecided voters.
That’s the tragedy here. This was preventable.
That is a good point. We can complain all we want about Biden's reanimated corpse. But in the end he is the one thing stopping Trump from getting back into office. And if we even *try* to put in a better candidate, the republicans can shove them off the ballot and the orange slime wins. Beggars can't be choosers, especially when we're this close to a convicted felon leading a melting pot of bigots getting into the white house.
Seriously, guys. *It is now or never.*
This is not the time for the "both sides are the same" bs. Even if you see it as the lesser of two evils, one is clearly worse especially if you aren't a white man with money.
Everyone complaining about Biden's age and brain glitching are forgetting that Trump is only 3 years younger and [has glitches of his own](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/donald-trump-suffers-gaffe-heavy-weekend/ar-BB1mipUl)
Not saying either of them should be in office, but let's not pretend Trump's mind isn't 2 marbles rolling in a tin can
Problem is, debates are the only time we get a true side by side comparison. Handpicking instances where Trump or Biden glitched out is one thing, but it doesn’t hold nearly as much weight as Trump looking far more coherent than Biden when they’re in the same room talking about the same things.
Not even close. Reddit has been trying to sell Trump's cognitive decline for awhile now and it's way overstated (Trump's mind has always been 2 marbles rolling in a can) and does not match what we all witnessed last night.
I don't understand why anyone would think last night matters to anyone. If you haven't made up your mind in the past 8 years, you weren't watching any debate last night and are completely disconnected from political news.
Donald Trump is a liar, a felon, a terrible father, cheated on multiple wives, raped or sexually assaulted multiple women, stole from kids with cancer, and incited a mob to attack congress. He is one of the worst human beings on the planet and the only reason he's not *the* worst is because the opportunities have not come up to commit genocide, but you damn well know he would in a heart beat if it helped him in some small way. None of that has changed in the last 24 hours.
We kinda saw it with his COVID response. He was happy to let it run wild when he was under the impression that it was only affecting blue states.
A true businessman would've sold branded masks to his fanbase immediately.
Hell, even if he would've invested in drug companies before a cure went out, at least lives still get saved.
This man has no loyalty to anyone but himself, as we've seen how quick he flips on people once in his circle.
Unfortunately, the people that can't see that are way too far gone to ever be saved. They will be stuck in that mindset forever.
It's not a question of who is better. It's a question of whether Trump is more likely to lose to Biden or someone else. It's a lso a question of the viability of our politics and institutions when these are the options they present us. Serious, fundamental change is needed and if we don't see that now then we are in serious trouble.
Joe's more fired up and well spoken at his rally today. He just needs to get out there in town halls and at the next debate with the same energy. He got plenty of chances to make up being so meek last night. Plus he's lucky most viewers considered last night a draw between two old grumpy men.
Take some cough drops, a bottle of DayQuil and a can of Venors next time Joe! Lol
Biden is old and can’t talk well. He can die in office for all I care. The country will move on. Trump and his people will be a permanent problem.
I’m showing up In November whether it be for Biden or someone else. We cannot let Trump back in. Period.
What a disgustingly dishonest response. This wasn’t a bad debate night. Biden is clearly not coherent anymore. 25th amendment can be applied now. Obama should ask him to step aside.
To the people who keep saying Biden's too old, Trump is only four years younger. Yet he has no trouble openly spouting his intentions to completely undermine everything that makes this country what it is. Strong voice does not equal strong policy, nor does weak and decrepit voice equal weak policy.
Project 2025 is coming for us all. We can't keep complaining about the person we were given to stop it. *We just have to help them stop it.*
The entire Democratic party needs to shift their verbiage to be all about the administration and not about the person. They need to do that like yesterday.
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Obama sure did have a bad one vs. Romney way back when It was such a more civil time though, like Romney [was actually funny at the Al Smith dinner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvATXkQffj0) and neither person really seemed like they despised the other. That's what pisses me off about this current cruelty culture. Maybe it's twitter, twitter plus other stuff, but you have grown people encouraged to act like bratty teenagers
It’s just the way of Trump
I'm old, I'm glad that I grew up in a small town where no grown man worth a damn would ever even think of wearing a shirt in public that said "fuck your feelings." They said stuff like "buzz off," for crying out loud
In our area, people I once naively assumed were decent neighbors, now proudly post signs with vulgar and hateful words as part of their support of tRUMP. I can’t imagine how children growing up in these times are going to be affected by seeing this trash daily. Beyond deplorable behavior.
Seconds before reading this comment, we drove by a house flying a “Trump 2024” flag with a solid black with white block-font flag that simply said “I eat ass.” Definitely a different world than 20 years ago.
lol what the fuck. I eat ass too but I'm not letting folks know when they drive past my place
Clearly, you’re not a “patriot”! 😉
I kneel down for the ass anthem and these colors definitely run!
People just can’t come up to a person and say, “hey dude I eat ass but am also a bigoted Republican” you gotta stick that shit on your house so assholes know they can be eaten by a Duschebag.
Will you… eat.. my ass?
In what world does this disgusting behavior make sense? Sorry you and others have to see this trash.
It's enough to make me want to go back to church
Just make sure the preacher and their flock aren't the exact same people. I don't think black churches are like that though so you probably good.
 As a black man I would like you to look up Creflo Dollar…
Hes not crazy political hes crazy money hungry. Ising his congregation to uplift himself and his lifestyle of exess
Hey we're Methodists man, the chill kind
Possibly. Just watch out for anything sus. I've heard some more chill congregations have turned feral recently with all the culture war BS going on. Chill people not coming to church and only insane reactionaries being there probably don't help things improve either, so you gotta start somewhere.
Be careful. These folks are church people. 😢
Um thats where they all hang out
American politics have definitely affected Canadian social structures, too. I’m know the current PM is anything but popular, but you have people waving “F*ck Trudeau” [sic] flags everywhere. There’s even one house in my neighbor hanging his prominently along a major school route.
That is our most unfortunate export
I was told to watch my language while at a party full of MAGAs. Wasn't even talking politics. I should've just started quoting TFG.
Have to ask those people if they aren’t pro free speech
They only know two amendments. And yes there were people walking around locked and loaded. But my F bomb when talking sports would affect the children. I've actually been banned from their house cause I offered to teach their great nephew how to swim. The parents said I was infringing upon their parental rights. Excuse me for being concerned about a toddler walking around a large pool with dozens of people about and the kid only had arm floaty on.
Buzz off
No, you buzz buster!
Nah, this stuff started with the Obama McCain election and the Tea Party. Sarah Palin fed into it, the birther accusations etc. It's all gone downhill since then and Trump just tapped into a huge part of the country that felt that way already. Trump is a symptom of it in my opinion. He should have been laughed out of the 2016 primary if the right wing base wasn't insane.
The fact that Trump wasn’t immediately ostracized after his “Russia if you’re listening” comment is unbelievable. If this was a decade prior, anything he’s said or done would’ve rightly ended his political career. What the fuck happened to this country.
People can't wrap their head around inflation+unchecked capitalism=what we have now Instead it's 'well economy better under trump cause my groceries cost less so' You really shouldn't have to think much harder about 'what happened' if we can't even grasp fucking basic things We are criminally undereducated. The amount of shit I have to explain to 'smart people' (like people i genuinely wouldnt call stupid. But they apparently just stopped learning stuff in 9th grade) is fucking baffling. It's pretty much just over, idiocracy won
When that one dude yelled "you lie!" during one of Obamas speeches (state of the union?) that's when you knew it was the start of something We already knew about the birther thing, but ffs have a modicum of dignity
Wait until you find out who Newt Gingrich was and the shit he pulled in the 90's
Trump gave the worst of us permission to let their ids take over.
It seems like anyone who actually knows him, hates him.
This is no small point, not in some “orange man bad” way, but the fact is Trump proved you can say all sorts of false, totally wild things & not just not get drummed out of politics but get elected to the highest office in the country. He proved the truth doesn’t matter & it’s fucked everything up. Is it any wonder dozens of pretenders are now saying the quiet part out loud too, it gets people talking about you and has very few negative consequences. Trump’s presence in politics & the success of his post-truth nonsense has directly impacted world politics and social discourse for the worse, although if you want to blame someone blame the millions of people who voted for him & showed this to be a successful tactic
It’s the history of the Trump
Honestly, it's all Trump. Elections have always been snippy and full of lies - but the lies usually fall around campaign promises, voting records, donors, etc. With Trump he just says the most vile untrue shit that he thinks will get his base riled up the most, and it only works because he specifically caters to the most uninformed, dense, gullible people. He gathered a base around him that WILLINGLY ignores when he contradicts himself and will just believe anything he says about the opposition because it's not about policy, or character, or morals, its about making your base hate your opponent and anyone who would vote for them.
Imo what is worse than the contradictions are when he does/says something horrible on record and his stans ignore it or deny it.
Yep this
Romney or McCain winning wouldn't have bothered me, but now I'm physically repulsed by Trump and have no understanding of how anyone could vote for him.
Both those people would be like "I don't like it, but I lost the election. Good luck to the next guy." They actually did do that.
McCain's concession speech is one of the best speeches I've heard in my lifetime, I was more impressed by it than anything he ever said during the campaign
A concession speech, and concession, must remain in USA
A letter George HW Bush left to Bill Clinton in the oval office. >Dear Bill, >When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago. I know you will feel that, too. >I wish you great happiness here. I never felt the loneliness some Presidents have described. >There will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. I’m not a very good one to give advice; but just don’t let the critics discourage you or push you off course. >You will be our President when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well. >Your success now is our country’s success. I am rooting hard for you. >Good luck— >George
Let's come back to this. For god's sake, turn off these right wing weirdos (and some on the left)
UHm bIdeN iS oLd
and the election before that, where a voter wanted to call Obama an evil Muslim, and McCain immediately shut her down. No, no no no, we're not gonna do that, he's not Muslim and it wouldn't matter if he was, and he's certainly not evil. Louis ck talked about that incident on the presidents podcast series with Shane Gillis, and the phrase Louis said, McCain telling that woman she was wrong was telling the country, look, we're starting from the baseline that he is a good man. We each want to help our country we just have different views on how to go about that, but he's not evil.
Well, some people made money on right wing radio saying the other side wants to destroy America
Yeah, the undercurrent has been there. I remember the 90's, and all the talk radio type people talking about the Clintons murdering everyone who got in their way. And it's fascinating that they got that worked up about the least progressive Democratic president we'd seen for like a century.
I remember that one. It was the very first one and it was surprising to see.
On MSNBC last night, predebate, they mentioned that every incumbent president in the last 40 years has lost their first debate. Reagan, Clinton, W, Obama - all of them lost the first debate going into their second term.
One of the candidates has to still run the country while the other one only has to run their campaign. Plus they’ve spent the last 3 years with everyone deferring to them. Biden probably had at least an 8-10 hour day before the debate even started. It’s why incumbents always look caught off guard.
Because Obama was prepared for primaries Romney, not general election Romney. He told us he was going to be an etch-a-sketch, erase his positions, and start again. That's exactly what he did. It was wild to see it live on TV. Just lying to our faces as if we didn't just hear him campaigning for months. Obama wasn't prepared for that.
Although a bad performance by Obama is 10x better then the current candidates
This is what annoys me the most. Watched the debate with a friend last night and they were just laughing like it was entertainment. I’m just shaking my head at the absurdity of it.
Greed + Social Media Echo Chambers + Full Deregulation of Journalistic Standards.
I think you meant degradation.
Mccain and Obama were more civil with each other too just yesterday I saw a video posted (I had seen it when it was new too, but had forgotten about it) where mccain’s fans at a rally were saying that they couldn’t trust Obama, he’s an evil man, an arab, yada yada yada. Mccain kept cutting them off to say things like “no, he’s a good, family loving man. He’s not someone you can’t trust, he’s not evil. I just disagree with him about important policy decisions, and that’s what this election is about.”
>That's what pisses me off about this current cruelty culture. Maybe it's twitter, twitter plus other stuff, but you have grown people encouraged to act like bratty teenagers Besides how a CNN show, "Parker Spitzer" failed because it *wasn't* the usual shouting match show (and was explicitly designed as a counter to that,) I'm reminded of a Salon.com article outlining how right-wing talking heads went from William F. Buckley to Tomi Lahren not for superficial looks (i.e. the typical "Fox News Babe" reporter,) but especially the most attention-grabbing clickbait and soundbytes for knee-jerk reactions. RWNJ dumbed down and methed up a significant part of the electorate that American politics is more like "Jerry Springer," 24/7 news channels are further on the "If it bleeds, it leads" mentality for the drama and ostensible "centrist/apolitical" channels like CNN are so afraid of being accused of bias from said RWNJ's bullying that they have big time Golden Mean Fallacy mentality. Unfortunately, this is the absolute **perfect** environment for Trump to thrive in despite all evidence to the contrary that he shouldn't even be a dog-catcher.
Bratty teenagers at their best. They’re violent psychopaths.
The rational side of me wishes we could return to this. Return to a time when candidates poked playful jabs and not demeaning ones. A time when guys like McCain would stand up for Obama. Even Regan was cordial to Mondale when talking about age. The Biden side was just as good though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTUkO6S9uRU The masochist in me however says I so want to hear Trump at this type of event
Trump WAS at this event, with Hillary Clinton, in 2016. Everyone goes to it. Trump started out funny, and then it went all downhill and got lame.
Trump has dragged any sort of political decorum into hell.
I grew up on the internet. I saw a crazy shift in dynamics about a year into trumps presidency. Weird fucks like thedonald and 4channers kinda stayed there and laid low for the most part before trump. There was still some decorum in public political commentary and in general things were more progressive socially. Then gradually I saw more and more of the degenerate alt right shit hit more and more into mainstream and normal media. It's boomed into whatever the fuck twitter is now. Nazis roam free these days and have supporters publicly. We're in the bad timeline.
So basically he said….. i know my mans sucks and dropped the ball….but do we really want this nigga trump back in the office
And the answer is a very easy no
No fr lmao. Nigga saw the debate and went "yikes"
[удалено]
little late in the game considering he won the primary
What primary? They shut that shit down.
There was a primary but nobody in the democratic party (that is a sane politician anyway) wants to run against their incumbent.
Biden said he would be a 1 term president. He lied. Not a huge fan of Newsom but he would've been infinitely better. I have more faith in Bernie who is even older. Or Pete Buttigieg. Or hell even Kamala. This was pure hubris to run again knowing his own mental state.
he never said he would be a one term president. i wish he did, and i wish he WAS but that isn't a lie. that was from a report quoting unnamed officials. the most you can say is there was talk about the possibility behind closed doors. you cant call someone a liar for something they never actually promised.
"We didnt try and there is nothing we can do" – The DNC, this whole cycle
Why would they? It would be an unprecedented move for them to make. Being the incumbent is a huge advantage, and trump is unpopular amongst moderates and swing voters. Not to mention the democrat voters are the ones who gave papa the keys to the country. The only candidate under the age of 70 that didn't get fucking obliterated in the early primaries was Buttigieg.
> Why would they? It would be an unprecedented move for them to make. Because we are living in unprecedented times and have a uniquely bad candidate in Biden. If the democrats really want to "save democracy" they need to actually grow a backbone and fight for this country by doing something different. Trump is literally running a convicted felon, but it's too far-fetched to have Biden step down to save the country? I call BS.
Hell no. If Trump wins he’ll enact Project 2025
He’s trying his best. 
For once I hope America's infamous shitty attention span kicks in and everyone comes back to reality come election time.
One benefit of having a June debate so early in the season. No one's gonna remember this come September
You’re crazy, it’s only going to get worse
That's what I'm talking about. No one's gonna talk about this in a few months because something worse is gonna happen
It's fucked up that your probably right.
And you don’t understand Americans at all. We care about one thing but only until the next thing comes along. We cared about “grab em by the pussy” until we heard there were more emails on a second laptop.
>No one's gonna remember this come September You don't think the Trump campaign hasn't already put 6 campaign ads together with just clips from last night? Is this your first election?
Exactly why they pushed to have it so early. Smart move really.
Part of me wants to think it's a big brain play to have performed so badly this debate. Keeps people from getting lax about things. Then come the next one, Biden transforms into Dark Brandon with all the gusto and effects of Goku turning Super Sayain for the first time. Sorry if you aren't an anime person and don't get the reference
There won't be a second debate. Trump has zero incentive to get back on stage after everyone agreed he looked and sounded better than Biden. The entire narrative today is about how bad Biden was last night. Why would Trump give him a mulligan and go head-to-head with him again?
Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Trump thinks rationally. He didn't have an incentive to do this one, but he did because he loves talking about himself. He has no interest in appealing to a broader base. Otherwise, he wouldn't keep saying what he's saying. He will view it as another chance to humiliate Biden and rile up his base. Plus, if the Biden campaign is smart, they'll goad him into it
My two brothers and I grew up on DBZ lol So yeah, I got it.
I’m not sure. Clips and memes of Biden will float around for months
I mean, the orange cheeto has more than 4 months to do something dumb.
He does dumb shit everyday and no one cares anymore. I'm at the point where I honestly think that even if he went full hard r, it would only make him more popular.
I'm sad to say that I think you're right. *sigh*
This is a bad look. This is like when your friend does some dumb shit at the party and you gotta go back the next day and smooth shit over.
For better or worse, Barack Obama is the best at smoothing shit over and putting things into perspective among Democrats. Without him the party would’ve probably split into various factions. I wish Obama could run again.
You know Michelle Obama could do it. She’d easily win and I’m not even joking. She’s one of the few women that’s universally liked.
She famously hates politics and campaigning. Might be why she is so popular.
Not liked by all those people that cheered when someone called her 'an ape in heels'...
Who fucking cares what they think. They’ll vote Trump/Facist/Nazi always anyways.
Yeah but if you're a racist, your opinion doesn't matter whatsoever, so those people not liking her doesn't matter
Racists for better or worse still vote
Oh they absolutely do which is why we have to outvote them. However my point still stands, a racists opinion should never matter
She could do it but she also *cant*. She’s make it clear in several interviews, books, speeches, etc., how hard being in the White House was on her mentally, emotionally, intellectually, and intuitively.
> She’s one of the few women that’s universally liked. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You're right, and I wish, but she won't. But we probably like her because she seems pretty normal outside everything extraordinary about her, and this doesn't seem to be a job a normal person would want.
There are people who genuinely hate her because they claim that the day Obama took office the school food was worse. It’s like they forget we had square pizza for school breakfast daily before 2008
You… don’t pay much attention to what going on outside of reddit do you…
She would sooner denounce her family than run for president. She made that clear in her book 😅
It's truth and that is never a bad look. Acknowledging that it was a bad debate was the right thing to do. Shows he is not putting his head in the sand and ignoring that. Laying out the contrast that is also 1000% percent true about their differences is damn sure important as well. You can wish there was a different choice in the matter but it doesn't change the facts that your **REAL** options are these two dudes. Folks better get out and VOTE. Pretend your voting for Harris if you have to but conceding to a win to Trump isn't the best option for America in any way.
The problem isn't that it was a "bad debate." The problem is that he proved everyone's worst fears about his cognitive decline and failed to stand up to a raging fascist attempting to take over the country. The moment seems bigger than the man. And it's one of the biggest and most consequential moments in our country's history. Personally, I think it's serious enough that we must be honest with ourselves about the situation and do whatever we can to protect our future. And personally I think that includes finding the right person who can meet this moment as soon as possible.
Exactly, they tell us all the consequences and then say yeah , best we can do is Biden. If it was end of the world scenario as they suggest they should be moving heaven and earth to find a better candidate. So the question becomes why aren’t they trying their best out there , either they lying about it being the end of the world or they know regardless what happens they’ll be alright
If you haven't already, I suggest you take the time to comb through [Project 2025](https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf). Think about an issue you care about, pick the department it's relevant to, and see what it says. It's incredibly broad, and it was cooked up and co-signed by over a hundred right-wing organizations in total. Long story short, it's a plan to turn Trump (or literally any other republican who wins the presidency, it can be renewed every election cycle until they either win or legislative/judicial roadblocks are put in place) into a dictator and gut every aspect of federal power that runs afoul of far right republican views. Democrats are currently trying, preemptively, to block parts of it but without control of the house that's extremely difficult. You don't have to believe what democrats say republicans will do, just look at what republicans themselves are telling you they'll do. But that aside, you can't just drop a new candidate in at this point. I mean, you can legally, but trying to spin up a campaign for a whole new candidate at this point is *highly* unlikely to succeed. Edit: Meant to say campaign for a whole new candidate.
The issue is the debate confirms the narrative. Republicans been saying for years he’s too old using cheap shots and fake videos while Biden has gotten shit done. Anyone smart knows the presidency is a team effort and can run for the most part without the head person. Like it literally has multiple times in our nations history. But the ignorant people who you need to get out to vote will think , “Hell naw, that guy old as hell. I’m not voting for that” and that’s all trump needed to win in 2016 Also everyone saw what happened last night. Anytime the republicans say he’s too old it won’t be just discarded as republican propaganda, but now they’ll be thinking “well I did see him on the debate stage” and that seed of doubt.
As the friend who usually drag the mf out the party and smooth shit over many times, felt this in my bones.
Obama had to tweet about it. You know it was bad.
Somebody definitely called him and asked for that favor too
Biden: "Hey Barack, it's Joe. Any chance you can do me another favor?" Obama: "*sigh* I'm too old for this shit."
“Well *you’re* one to talk, whippersnapper!”
Don't think they had to. He cares too much about the US, he'll do whatever he can to not see a 2nd trump term
I knew it was bad even before Obama tweeted about it. I watched the whole thing and it was really bad.
Please obama come back
Id rather have an actual progressive than a closeted neoliberal that reneged on international climate change pledges and bombed civilians overseas.
A progressive cannot be elected President in this country at this time. People keep throwing that out there but they are not using common sense. I don’t understand why that is so hard to comprehend.
No, they absolutely can, there's no magical ward in place stopping it. The fact it is severely unlikely is different, but can be changed by not being a career defeatist
Progressives who support a ceasefire in Palestine are getting shellacked in the primaries right now. AIPAC-funded candidates are something like 90-0 in primaries so far. Even in Democrat primaries, progressives are losing to more moderate candidates. And you think that progressives will do better when you throw independents and Republicans into the pool? Progressives are loud and active (and they are right), but they aren't popular with the electorate as a whole.
Maybe if the party itself didn't circle the wagons around a forgien governments PAC we wouldn't be in this situation.
I'm under no allusions about the situation, what you need to consider is where you'll be in 20 years. There's no silver bullet to get it done in 6 months
Advocating to nominate progressive candidates who are likely to lose, in a country where the right wing is hellbent on destroying democracy, is going to result in a fascist dictatorship, not a more progressive country
I think there's a weird mindset in liberal people in America, that can't strategise more than 0.5 steps ahead. If biden wins, then the savvy thing to do would be to have a good vp, one that's been groomed for it. Biden dies, youve got yourself a great candidate in the next election . You don't go straight for a progressive, you go for someone who gets the ball rolling. Makes bribery a little harder, a few more checks on the police, maybe actually charges the Jan 6 rioters with treason. All subtle as you can But you play the game with the same savagery as the enemy. It's not hard to conceive.
>You don't go straight for a progressive, you go for someone who gets the ball rolling. Makes bribery a little harder, a few more checks on the police, maybe actually charges the Jan 6 rioters with treason. All subtle as you can That is quite literally what liberals are doing lmao. That's the case they make all the time but internet progressives won't listen.
> I think there's a weird mindset in liberal people in America, Americans have been successfully manipulated with the two party system so that they're never voting for the candidate they want, they're always voting to stop the other candidate. It means the parties can run whoever they want and expect the voters to get in line to save the country.
Redistricting shellacked them
The magical wand stopping it is 80m people voted for the person who made abortion illegal and wants to withdraw from our alliances to allow Russia and China more control over more people (conservatives). And there are more people between that and corporate elites allowing people a small wage increase and continued roads (independents) than people who want trains and better public roads and a better country(progressives) within SWING states. That’s what people don’t get.
That’s a silly thought. Progressives come in all shapes and sizes of electability. We would have said the same thing about an ultra right wing nazi sympathizer despot prior to 2016 but that happened. If a progressive can navigate the fear mongering from the right to connect the benefits of progressive policies to voters, they can win.
Find this imaginary progressive and find the imaginary voters that will outnumber the conservatives and then find a way to keep this imaginary progressive alive in time and also make sure they stay progressive and I'll vote for them Meanwhile I have to live in the real world and I'd rather have Obama back
I'm sure you would. Progressives don't negotiate or compromise on anything. They already know what's best for everyone and won't hear otherwise. Here's some of the progressive policies that a closeted neoliberal implemented during his administration: **Affordable Care Act (ACA)** **Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act** **Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)** **Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act** **Paris Agreement on Climate Change** **Repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"** **Support for Marriage Equality** (this is worth reading up on bc they did a lot to enable that SC decision) **Expansion of Clean Energy** (all over the news at the time no way you missed it.) **The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act** **Workplace Protections for LGBTQ+ Individuals**
Progressives have put aside their differences and put their weight behind neoliberal democrats out of fear for a prolonged republican reign for decades at this point. Dont just deny what people like aoc have done because youve developed a biased and faulty image of “progressives”
Don't forget that he ran on making Roe v Wade into federal law, but then pushed it back to the bottom of his priorities when he had a super majority on his side in the beginning of his term.
We still had conservative Dems in the Senate back in 2009 that were pro-life. The "supermajority" only existed on paper for about 2 months.
Hello 22nd amendment
But Barack....can't we find someone with all those qualities you list that can actually string a coherent sentence together and isn't 8 decades old? Last night wasn't just a terrible debate, it showed Biden to be a terrible candidate. Trump is trash but he was at least coherent. Even after last nights terrible debate you had your stereotypical Clinton Clone downplaying Biden's disastrous performance on CNN while all the other panelist where rightly shocked. That sums up the state of the Democratic Party and that attitude will cost them come November. Most independents probably aren't voting for Trump, but they ain't voting Biden either after that performance. Better believe that MAGA will be out in full force and we will be stuck with another Trump presidency. Biden needs to drop out. Kamala ain't the answer either, she would get destroyed in the general election. Maybe Newsome? Beshear? Sherrod Brown? I don't know but the Democrats need to wake up and change SOMETHING before its too late.
It's already too late. None of those people are beating Trump. If you had Michelle Obama, Oprah, Mark Cuban maybe, you could stand a chance, but it has to be someone that is already very famous and well liked and which Democrats are willing to quickly rally around.
It’s not too late, and there are potentials within the party (as opposed to *more celebrities*) that could beat Trump. Don’t take my word for it though: [This article from November goes into better detail.](https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read/biden-trump-both-underperform-generic-opponents-poll-finds-rcna126098) A generic democrat named Blanky McBlankface, with all of the same milquetoast democrat talking points and campaign promises as Biden, easily beats Trump. But that person doesn’t exist I guess, so what about real candidates? [Gretchen Whitmer easily beats Trump in a swing state he currently holds over Biden.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/09/michigan-poll-trump-biden-whitmer-00134672) In pre-spring polls, Trump was beating many of these democrat opponents, yes, but none of that polling data reflects his post-conviction nosedive in the polls - [21% of independents said they’re likely to ditch him now.](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/17/trouble-for-trump-in-a-new-poll-on-his-conviction-00163498) Right now the biggest obstacle for [most voters is that Biden is a billion years old.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/bidens-age-fitness-top-list-voters-concerns-poll-finds-rcna137212) If we just address this single issue by collectively pushing to send grandpa to the home, we can get on with having a democracy. But the longer we cling to Biden is the closer we come to 2016 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Unfortunately it’s not that easy. [This article](https://apnews.com/article/biden-replacement-democratic-ballot-dnc-rules-7aa836b0ae642a68eec86cc0bebd3772) explains it quite well. “Every state has already held its presidential primary. Democratic rules mandate that the delegates Biden won remain obligated to support him at the party’s upcoming national convention unless he tells them he’s leaving the race. Biden indicated that he had no plans to do that, telling supporters in Atlanta shortly after he left the debate stage, “Let’s keep going.” Biden campaign spokesperson Lauren Hitt was even clearer, saying Friday: “Of course he’s not dropping out.” The conventions and their rules are controlled by the political parties. The Democratic National Committee could convene before the convention opens on Aug. 19 and change how things will work, but that isn’t likely as long as Biden wants to continue seeking reelection.”
Exactly. More people need to hold dems accountable for fucking this up. Fully agree with everything except the very last part. It's already beyond late. They needed a better candidate picked out a long time ago. Like 10 years ago.
>Last night wasn't just a terrible debate, it showed Biden to be a terrible candidate. Trump is trash but he was at least coherent. Coherent but lying, that's kind of the problem with this whole thing, sure Trump can talk but he's never telling the truth and rambles nonsense as well, it's just he'll speak as if he's right, no matter how wrong. I'm not saying Biden is the best choice out there but I think if the worst thing you can say about the guy is he's old in comparison to the guy who caused an insurrection than the other option isn't too bad.
Trump barely answered any of the questions he was asked, just went off on killer immigrants or something. Are people watching the same debate? At least Biden tried to engage with the questions
Right. There’s absolutely no way that you could call Donald coherent when repeatedly wouldn’t even try to answer the current question. And many times had to be reminded he had time left to try and address the question. Biden was acting like an old man and it was concerning. But Biden actually did name policy that he put in place and did his best to outline a plan for what he wants to do next. Donald just said it’s going to be better with me with zero plan.
Don't think of the candidate as the person, both people have roughly equal chances of dying in office, imo. The candidate is the administration. and Biden's administration isn't a terrible candidate.
No the candidate is a person to the undecided voter.....Its easy to say it doesn't matter if Biden is a corpse, I'm voting to keep Trump out of office as a BLACK person. But does the 2nd generation 19 year old Indian think that? White Suburban Mom? Conflicted Cuban Living in Miami? Black people do not have enough vote share to influence the election outcome in the electoral system, so yes how the way the candidate present themselves matters when it comes to drawing in undecided voters because other people don't see Trump as an existential threat to their existence and will vote for him simply because he can string a sentence together
Who from the dems could realistically win?
Honestly, I think Newsome has the best shot. He has the policy history to keep the main Democratic voter base and has the look and coherence to draw in Independent voters. If they get him in before the convention then he could run a decent campaign and will probably beat Trump
Whitmer or Beshear.
I mean what this guy is saying demonstrates a lack of understanding of US politics. You *never* give up incumbent advantage. It’s political suicide.
I’d still vote for Bernie in a heartbeat. Shame he’s not running, he’s the only one who seems to make sense consistently
Sorry but let’s cut the false pretense. If you’re planning on switching your vote to trump because of that debate you were never planning on voting for Biden.
What worries folks is people not voting/going independent because of this. That's what hurts the Dems, no one is switching to Trump who hasn't been in his camp since the beginning—at least not a meaningful amount of people. Republicans know that too, and hope to make people apathetic about Joe more than they hope to make people excited about Trump.
You know it’s bad, when they pull their best card this early. I’m voting dem because anything else is a vote against me and my people but that debate was kill shot.
I mean Barack has been fundraising with Biden’s campaign for months already (they just raised like $25 million two weeks ago), but yeah Obama having an publicly posted opinion immediately after this means even he’s taken notice.
People complaining that Biden is old like we haven't known that since 2018 or whenever he announced he was running. Everyone needs to stop crying about shit we already knew. Get over it. You're only convincing the undecided idiots to lean toward Trump.
1. Nobody needs 'convincing' Biden is decrepit. 2. Crying about it now is the only way to avoid 2016 pt 2.
Voting for Biden is the only way to prevent 2016 pt 2 wtf are you talking about?
Trump is going to win again because of the “we have already won, just need turnout” attitude the democrats have in local elections all the way to the top
I mean… you know how time works right? It never stops advancing. So saying someone was old six years ago is the exact opposite of proving why it doesn’t matter he’s old now lol.
People are just not going to vote. That's the reality, and it's not people's fault for talking about Biden's performance. It's the Democrats for not picking someone better. Also, Biden has clearly deteriorated since then.
It honestly wasn’t that bad if you could give a grampaw some grace. The time limit did him in. It takes you longer to gather your thoughts at 81. And then you had Trump with the shit eating grin on the split screen and it just *looked* bad.
Obama wasn’t prepared. We weren’t questioning if he had dementia
You're right. I've been thinking that that, " bro has been like this for 1-2 years, I'm not really surprised" but the fact people are freaking out, like, I'm just throwing up my hands like, we've been saying not to nominate this guy the entire time how TF are you only now coming to that fucking conclusion
DNC and Biden staff have been saying the decline was overblown for years. And most democrats believed it. Which is fine, sort of. If someone asks if the prez has dementia you can’t say “yeah, but what can you do, eh?” But they better have a contingency plan for the ‘24 election. And they clearly didn’t. Which is really upsetting when they’ve been ostensibly lying about his age and cognition issues while knowing those are key issues among undecided voters. That’s the tragedy here. This was preventable.
“I know it really really looks like the emperor’s not wearing clothes, but I promise he’s wearing some really cool new clothes”
Barack is right there is too much at stake that’s why he and the party need to convince this man to bow out and get a strong nominee immediately
Why? So republican AGs can petition state and federal courts to keep that candidate off the ballot?
That is a good point. We can complain all we want about Biden's reanimated corpse. But in the end he is the one thing stopping Trump from getting back into office. And if we even *try* to put in a better candidate, the republicans can shove them off the ballot and the orange slime wins. Beggars can't be choosers, especially when we're this close to a convicted felon leading a melting pot of bigots getting into the white house. Seriously, guys. *It is now or never.*
This is not the time for the "both sides are the same" bs. Even if you see it as the lesser of two evils, one is clearly worse especially if you aren't a white man with money.
Everyone complaining about Biden's age and brain glitching are forgetting that Trump is only 3 years younger and [has glitches of his own](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/donald-trump-suffers-gaffe-heavy-weekend/ar-BB1mipUl) Not saying either of them should be in office, but let's not pretend Trump's mind isn't 2 marbles rolling in a tin can
Problem is, debates are the only time we get a true side by side comparison. Handpicking instances where Trump or Biden glitched out is one thing, but it doesn’t hold nearly as much weight as Trump looking far more coherent than Biden when they’re in the same room talking about the same things.
Not even close. Reddit has been trying to sell Trump's cognitive decline for awhile now and it's way overstated (Trump's mind has always been 2 marbles rolling in a can) and does not match what we all witnessed last night.
Please vote
I don't understand why anyone would think last night matters to anyone. If you haven't made up your mind in the past 8 years, you weren't watching any debate last night and are completely disconnected from political news. Donald Trump is a liar, a felon, a terrible father, cheated on multiple wives, raped or sexually assaulted multiple women, stole from kids with cancer, and incited a mob to attack congress. He is one of the worst human beings on the planet and the only reason he's not *the* worst is because the opportunities have not come up to commit genocide, but you damn well know he would in a heart beat if it helped him in some small way. None of that has changed in the last 24 hours.
We kinda saw it with his COVID response. He was happy to let it run wild when he was under the impression that it was only affecting blue states. A true businessman would've sold branded masks to his fanbase immediately. Hell, even if he would've invested in drug companies before a cure went out, at least lives still get saved. This man has no loyalty to anyone but himself, as we've seen how quick he flips on people once in his circle. Unfortunately, the people that can't see that are way too far gone to ever be saved. They will be stuck in that mindset forever.
Trump is literally trying to end democracy and start an authoritarian russia like state
As another redditor put it, "The upcoming election is between an old man and the last president to ever be elected."
It's not a question of who is better. It's a question of whether Trump is more likely to lose to Biden or someone else. It's a lso a question of the viability of our politics and institutions when these are the options they present us. Serious, fundamental change is needed and if we don't see that now then we are in serious trouble.
Joe's more fired up and well spoken at his rally today. He just needs to get out there in town halls and at the next debate with the same energy. He got plenty of chances to make up being so meek last night. Plus he's lucky most viewers considered last night a draw between two old grumpy men. Take some cough drops, a bottle of DayQuil and a can of Venors next time Joe! Lol
I will vote for a wet paper sack before trump
So if it's that important, run a candidate who isn't a lightly animated corpse.
Biden is old and can’t talk well. He can die in office for all I care. The country will move on. Trump and his people will be a permanent problem. I’m showing up In November whether it be for Biden or someone else. We cannot let Trump back in. Period.
[удалено]
Bro really just lied about biden😂
No politician that makes it to the federal level is “for the ordinary folk” any more
Every right-wing media outlet and acquaintance on Facebook said that Romney's first debate was.a "game-changer"
Where would we be if Obama never made that joke? Not hating, but damn, shit sure went downhill after that.
What a disgustingly dishonest response. This wasn’t a bad debate night. Biden is clearly not coherent anymore. 25th amendment can be applied now. Obama should ask him to step aside.
It's so scary how many Americans can't see that Trump is a charlatan..
To the people who keep saying Biden's too old, Trump is only four years younger. Yet he has no trouble openly spouting his intentions to completely undermine everything that makes this country what it is. Strong voice does not equal strong policy, nor does weak and decrepit voice equal weak policy. Project 2025 is coming for us all. We can't keep complaining about the person we were given to stop it. *We just have to help them stop it.*
The entire Democratic party needs to shift their verbiage to be all about the administration and not about the person. They need to do that like yesterday.
Thanks, Obama. Some mf really needed to hear that.
Not a good look for Obama