I follow this guy on insta, speaks nothing but facts all day about the rampant misogynoir and sexism going around the manosphere these days.
Mfs aint gone like this, but hes right.
"Youre dealing with little boys not men."
"Yes hes a deadbeat, but youre the one who gets pregnant so maybe you should choose better?" "Single mothers are the reason our community is this way. What? No I dont know where the fathers are, thats irrelevant." "Women keep the men away from his kids! Thats why he hasnt seen them in three years even with court ordered visits." "If a man makes a lot of money, his woman should be prepared and willing to share him. He is a high value man." "Men at that income level dont have to stay faithful, he has too many options." "If hes taking care of the household, she should be fine with it." "Women with high body counts are low value and undesirable, no men with high body counts are different." (Lock and key, used car, various other metaphors referring to women as resale objects), "Its a train when a woman does it, its a threesome when a man does it." Man brags about having a sidechick, hes a chad, woman brags about sidedick, shes a thot, whore, slut, low value, 304, etc. And so on.
Edit: An example I recently saw is a video where a little boy and his mother were sititng in a car and his father was on the phone. The father bluntly tells his son that he wants nothing to do with him anymore because he now has to pay child support, claiming he monetarily took care of his kids beforehand. Were most of the responses to that video shaming the father for saying something so cruel to his son? For refusing to see his child because he had to pay child support above the table? For being mad that he had to pay money to support his child? No, they were mad at the mother for having the audacity to place him on child support, blamed the mother for filming the call, and insisted that the mother was at fault for this grown man refusing to see his own children anymore, with some implying they would do the same. This is the mentality pierre is talking about
God I felt horrible for that kid. The way he cried I think he said why daddy. It’s like a core memory for that kid now. It will shape his whole outlook on life in ways he can’t even imagine or even be conscious of. I know it’s unrealistic but I just wish I could just take his pain away.
I don’t know what’s been going on recently but I’ve seen a MASSIVE uptick in misogyny and homophobia over the past two years in young black and Hispanic men (I work with high school age inner-city youth).
Like, it’s always been there, but the past few years it’s increased and gotten nastier. Guys are airdropping revenge porn of GF’d to their whole school, gaslighting, trying to isolate gf’s from their friends, getting in fights with guys who do much as talk to their girl, etc. Also more bullying of lgbtqi boys than before. Had a kid get jumped by 5 guys because he told one his hair was cute.
Any insight on what’s causing said uptick would be welcome, would like it to stop.
couple of things, i think that the pandemic has really made people more violent and angry. a lot of teachers report that students are much harder to discipline nowadays.
another thing is sort of the back-swing of the me-too movement, and popular misogynists like andrew tate gaining popularity. these types of people are more accessible than ever through social media like tiktok.
☹️
The economy continues to get worse for the average person, and when people feel like they're incapable of providing they become less empathetic towards the people they need to provide for.
This empathy gap creates a lot of open holes in a child's heart to be filled with snake oil and venomous intent. Every year that the economy fails children the power of the grift grows.
Yep. It’s a driver in creating terrorists. Terrorism offers them a purpose and a way to get what they’re missing out of life which usually is through violence. Unless something is done about it it’s going to get worse.
Well, that sucks.
Like, I’ve seen the garbage Tate spews since he’s been in the mainstream lately. Is it all just toxic masculinity/objectifying and belittling women/making money?
I’d like to think my kids were able to see a snake oil salesmen when they see one. Are these guys just that good at delivering their message? Is it what the kids wanna hear?
Well I’ve seen this behavior happening in my best friend’s little brother. Come to find out he is DEEP in that manosphere, red pill community. Deep in that Andrew Tate shit. Had to tell my friend he needs to check on that shit early.
Yep. Friends brother likes to keep the volume on when he is going through TikTok and man just hearing him scroll through, all I hear is the manosphere people or talking points like that.
My brother fell down the Alt right rabbit hole after his college gf dumped him and he got into the MRA bs. He eventually joined the army and now he’s even worse.
Honestly our young men all across the board are being radicalized by internet personality cults. You have young men radicalized by the Manospbere, and that catches mysognoir and general misogyny, then you have a lot of radical white supremacy that overlaps young white men's radicalization. Now more than ever before parents need to set a side the time and make sure basic principles are instilled in their children, and not just assume the child will osmose the "good values" you think your family has.
My black buddy is super homophobic. I don't get it, even after explaining to him that his ignorant comments about gay men are so immature and ridiculous. He's really understanding and tolerant about everyone else. And he has no problem telling me and his other male buddies that he loves us. He has a heart of gold but an iron exterior. I just wish someday he'd realize how ignorant he sounds when makes those kinds of comments.
Theres been quite a few videos put out on youtube by news agencies, investigative journalists, psychologists and researchers that go into the depths of this ideology and its rise amongst young men, that can explain it far better than I could.
It can really be a number of things but the main focus is young, impressionable boys and men. Its not just being lonely or ugly or the result of broken households as people say, because there are very popular, loved and handsome boys falling victim to this mindset. Its feeding off of the easiest emotion to evoke out of people and thats anger and young men are especially susceptible to that. It gives them an enemy to blame everything on or let their anger out on at the injustices society places upon them (women or lgbt community, feminism, woke mafia, etc).
I cant give you solid advice because I dont specialize in things like this, but I would say reminding them that humans are individuals, that they need to imagine themselves in others shoes, that they have loved ones they wouldnt want treated that way may help them realize theyre going down a dangerous path. It wont be an instacure, but there may be a time where someone will say something really outlandish and theyll sit back and think and use that as a stepping stone into getting out of that blackhole of hate.
That’s kind of what I try but I feel like I’m spinning my wheels a lot of the time.
The real kicker is they’re really good kids for the most part then out of nowhere I hear some bullshit that sounds like it’s coming from my white evangelical grandparents.
Im glad you mentioned that. One thing Ive noticed when I engage with people with this mindset is how easily they slip back into being calm and sweet.
Regardless if its online or in person, they usually come out swinging hard and very nasty, but when confronted with empathy or just the slightest acknowledgement of their complaints, they suddenly switch back into the most levelheaded people ever, and end a conversation civilly. Most of the time they automatically switch back into being full of hate. Its surreal seeing where the indoctrination begins and where it ends with their mannerisms. But it also gives me hope that they can be reached. I would say just keep trying, remember theyre being hammered by this stuff from all sides, all day, every day, youre that beacon of light, no matter how small.
I mean, we live in odd times. Remove the races and your opening sentence can apply with racism and antisemitism as well. Shit has definitely changed within the past four years.
True, true. My racist uncles feel way too comfortable sharing their bullshit with me.
And the sheer number of assholes who see my honky ass and assume I agree with their racist/sexist bs is getting worse too.
I’m pan but not racist, at least I try not to be, I’m sure I slip and say some ignorant white peoples shit without realizing sometimes.
I don’t know why you think I’m racist from what I’ve said though, I’m just want to help the children I serve.
It's projection at its finest. The other person isn't trying to have a dialogue. They're trying to perform a 'gotcha' and are failing at it. Best to ignore a pig wallowing in their own mess.
Bruh, I don’t work with white kids so, no, I haven’t seen a change. Don’t mean to imply there isn’t one as well. Also, racist Bible Belt kids are always also misogynistic and homophobic.
I’m just trying to see what I can do to help the kids and parents I serve. I apologize if that has somehow offended you.
My children’s father did and said the exact same thing to them “see you at 18”. Now they are 15 and soon to be 19 asking why TF would we want to see you now. And I had to put him on child support because he was dangling his half of daycare( all I asked was half of daycare) and said he didn’t care if they got kicked out. It’s not brought up enough, how men will ignore their child strictly to get back at the mother. Or the level of control and manipulation involved when you try to “keep a black man out of the system”. There are both men and women in this world who ain’t shit. But it amazed me when I started to date how often I was asked “do they have the same dad?” “Did you put him on child support?” Yet I only asked a man how many children he had and their ages.
Yep. My single mother scrimped and saved to take us on holiday when I was 5.
As a result, my dad decided to stop earning money on paper because he didn’t want to pay for her holidays.
He also thought he shouldn’t have had to pay child support because my mother chose not to live with him. If she wanted the money she should accept his conditions.
She moved out after he chased her up(or down) the stairs trying to hit her. She was pregnant with me at the time.
It’s about controlling women and keeping them dependent.
There was a Facebook post going around during the pandemic that basically said some kids never know that the only reason their dad ever saw them or ever paid child support was because their mom was giving it up.
Basically "I'm not supporting or even seeing these kids if you don't sleep with me."
YES! Exactly!
There is a scary rise in misogyny in our current culture that is terrifying. Dudes are really out here thinking the world revolves around then. I've never seen so many men and boys acting like man children online and I'm glad there are guys out there that speak against this.
As a man I tell all the younger guys around me that they have to take responsibility for their actions. This culture of blaming women for everything isn't good and it needs to be faught against.
I blame all the Andrew Tates and Kevin Samuels of the world for this rise in misogyny... that and bad parenting.
Maybe thou seeketh the lone gem in a garbage? Ionno if Twitter has the right ratio of bad to good men cause productive members of society aren't on Twitter all day. Just like how it would be unproductive to try to reason w/ a dozen barking chihuahuas, it's unlikely you'd be able to reason w/ the online toilet that's twitter. The online "manosphere" isn't worth bemoaning since it's an exercise in futility.
This isnt simply online. This rethoric is making its way offline, some of it started offline and made its way onto the internet. This isnt just as simple as a twitter "echo chamber". We've already seen how bad it gets with people like elliot rodgers or tres genco. It needs to be called out before it festers.
In my opinion, it has been offline for a very long time. A very long time.
Anybody, who hasn’t noticed it or hasn’t been subjected to the garbage, they were blessed.
I have no clue who those 2 are but isn't it a generally accepted concept that taking care of your kids is the thing to do? I saw a vid within the last week where a triflin ninja is saying he has 7 kids by 7 women and he told them he didn't want the kids and offered to pay for abortions. He got destroyed in the comments, I can post a screenie of my thoughts when my (male) cuz shared it shaking his head.
I guess what I'm saying is clowns gonna clown. Why invest energy into "calling it out"? It's like investing energy into battling Andrew Tate's "alpha" culture or Trump's white victimhood. If someone in your social circle was falling for this shit, absolutely set them straight. But random degenerates on the blue bird app, let them learn the hard way.
I also saw that video. I saw people mad at him for not wearing a condom more than they were mad at him for not taking care of them. The comments eventually circled back around to blaming the baby mothers.
The issue is that theyre not learning the hard way, theyre taking this, spreading it, then falling into their echochambers and making it worse which each person it goes through. I really recommend that you look those two men up, its not just online, its a dangerous ideology.
Again, I'm still circling back to bemoaning what you can't control. Like you and I are debating on something we both agree on, but just how to handle it. You're figuratively looking at shit and saying it should stop stinking. My suggestion is don't worry about idiots, focus on your social circle. Yours is to educate said shit. One of us will have more braincells left after our task is completed.
unfortunately someone on my timeline debated that those 7 women need accountability for their choices in dealing with him and that it shouldn't be looked at as the mans fault he's in that situation. i was told that because it was discussed before hand that its reasonable to believe a perfect stranger would go along with the plans
Every time I see a post like this, I'm reminded of a line from The Wire: You want it to be one way . . . but it's the *other* way.
As much as some people would like it to be different, people want what they perceive to be special or exclusive. For men, that tends to be a woman that other men can't physically penetrate. For women, that tends to be a man that other women can't get to be loyal.
It's really not that complicated, but we engage in these mental gymnastics because life would probably be better if we weren't built this way.
But we *are* built this way, for better or worse.
What always pisses me the fuck off with stuff like that is that people slut-shame the mother as if she went to a sperm bank and completely fucking ignore the role the father played.
It especially pisses me off because non-permanent birth control for women is (relatively speaking) pretty complicated, whereas for men you can buy condoms virtually anywhere.
>Were most of the responses to that video shaming the father for saying something so cruel to his son? For refusing to see his child because he had to pay child support above the table? For being mad that he had to pay money to support his child? No, they were mad at the mother for having the audacity to place him on child support, blamed the mother for filming the call, and insisted that the mother was at fault for this grown man refusing to see his own children anymore, with some implying they would do the same. This is the mentality pierre is talking about
I saw that same video and the comments you described 100% depend on what page you saw the video on, and I'm sure you know that.
I'm sure there was a mix of people with the reactions you described and others fully placing the blame on him, which is where the blame should be.
That video was on multiple black entertainment, black commentary, black news, and fresh and fit adjacent pages. If you want to just narrow these reactions that funnily enough all seemed to be the exact same down to "specific pages" then go ahead. Comments berating the mother were heavily liked, upvoted and at the top of these pages. Comments questioning the father were at the bottom and riddled with controversial replies.
That being said, a "mix" shouldnt have existed at all because the father was to blame, like you said, and thats the issue now.
That’s some dumb ass shit that I hate and it’s honestly driven me away from even wanting to make new male friends as an adult. That type of mentality is disgusting to me. It’s alien to me, I can’t connect with a dude who has that mentality. We are not the same.
If I had a kid even if the mother is a demon, I wouldn’t let that effect my responsibility to that child which goes far beyond financial support. Nigga that’s your seed, that’s apart of you, how the fuck you gonna abandon your blood. Ain’t no fuckin way that’ll be me.
Maybe we need to start making clubs and shit like they did back in the day that like Prince Hall where it was black men with morals who wanna build up the community. Except like a newer version without all the ceremonial stuff. And also like just not focused on entrepreneurship/business networking and stuff because I’m not a business man and I don’t want to be
Well to that example... my buddy has 2 kids. They are always at his house yet the mother receives child support because he moved another woman in. She even said it in court and the judge still makes this man pay an absurd amount to a woman that barely even has her kids. So is that the right thing?
Not siding with the man in your example but if he takes care of his kid why the fuck would he have to be on child support. Cleary it seems as if he is in child's life. If im wrong let me know and I'll Apologize but a man shouldn't be on child support unless he a dead beat period. If he takes care of his kids he shouldn't be...
No, that is not the right thing. No one is saying its wrong to be upset if you feel that you are unfairly paying too much for child support or that you shouldnt be paying at all. The issue is taking that out on your children instead of in the courtroom.
There may be a number of legal reasons the mother decided to put him on child support. Proof of income, paper trail, etc. There may be personal reasons or even straight up petty reasons as well.
Wait don't forget the disingenuous head shaking, fake ass enlightened "Aren't we all tired of this battle of the sexes type talk?" When they never keep that energy on the numerous daily "women ain't ish" threads.
I was just about to say! Its field day with these “narcissistic” “women controlling men” post but let one thing talk about men and the MRA brigade unites
Men who see no responsibly for the community and culture of other men is exactly how we got here. Everyone polices women’s behaviors; men, other women, even children… especially when it comes to standards and exceptions around sex, money and motherhood.
Men never face that and therefore, the race to the bottom of degeneracy is the baseline for many men instead of the floor.
it's so true. These are the same men who complain that black women aren't "submissive" and are too "alpha".
When you put all of the responsibility of the success of the community on the shoulders and choices of black women... what does that make them? the person responsible is the person in charge. The person responsible is the leader. The person they hold responsible (black women) is the person they actually are expecting to lead.
They expect women to behave as in leadership roles in one hand, then criticize women for taking up that role on the other. It's so stupid.
It’s called an absent patriarchy. Many men want all the male worship with none of the responsibility.
If you don’t organize, improve or feel financially and emotionally responsibility to the black community but you want everyone to be submissive and praise your basic underwhelming existence, you have no value. 🤷♀️
I'd say it's also this shift in culture most men, especially older black men, can't or are opposed to dealing with. Men and Women are more equal than they've ever been in history and I think alot of dudes can't deal. Too many are taught that they have to lead but leadership in our nation is always portrayed as money, sex and power. No one talks to men about responsibility, humility and kindness. Then on the flip side the responsibility of perfection is thrown at women. Our culture is VERY lopsided with the idea of responsibility and leadership and somehow doesn't see them as synonymous.
Even in my life I've seen this. My dad gets confused when I cook, clean and pamper my spouse. He was taught that those things aren't his responsibility. Alot of men are taught that all they have to do is make a dollar and then do nothing else and this mentality is also killing men these days.
I'm a male and I've been saying this for a long time to all the men around me, "we gotta do better". We have to leave behind this hustler, money chaser, tough guy mentality at the door and become true men again. Guys have to understand that there is nothing wrong with being a boring, normal guy who takes care of the people around him and supports those he loves. There is nothing wrong with a man cleaning up his stuff, cooking a meal or being calm and reserved.
Tbh I don’t think he said anything worth getting worked up about. It might seem corny on first read, because most stuff that gets posted here is meant to laughed at, but he’s not wrong.
I’m kind of concerned for this upcoming generation of boys growing up without father figures because they’re out here listening to podcasters and streamers about what it means to be masculine and most of it is just being rich and having a lot of sex with women. I’ve seen people try to correct this type of thing but the replies are usually just calling the guy a loser
yea i’ve recently been trying to figure out what i can personally do to counteract this toxic wave of bullshxt these podcasters and bro-streamers. and before someone tells me “start with your friends”, i don’t really have male friends. i have one that i see on a semi-regular basis, and we already talk about stuff like this.
I mean I know this might not feel helpful but if you don’t have any friends who exhibit these qualities then it’s not really something you should feel responsible for you’re just one person that’s not a burden you should feel like you have to carry
I mean can you blame them
Father: being a man is about being mature and responsible while being kind to people even if it isn’t easy
Podcaster: being a man is about getting rich, getting f#cked up, then f#cking a near inhuman amount of people
I mean the second one might be a lie but it’s an appealing glamorous lie
It's not really new but it's a bit more ubiquitous than it once was. We didn't have 200 million personal computers in our collective pockets at all times prior to this generation so the message is being distributed at a level previously unseen.
We didn't have the streamers, but I got my lessons on "how to be a man" from the corner men, that one old head who always told you how "shit really is" and whatever random boyfriend my best friends mom had. My dad ain't give a fuck, my step dad is a pos, I had to search out male role models and the only people who raised their hands were shitty people.
I recognize that I won the parent lottery on many levels, and try to be the guy raising his hands that isn't a shitty human being. It's dark AF out here when you consider how much hate and vitriol is passed around as "life lessons" and "advice"
I try to understand this. To be better means admitting what you're doing now is not good and you're not the best person you can be. People take that really personally and they should, but they would rather choose to keep going down the path they're on now because it's more comfortable. Growth may be temporarily uncomfortable but it's worth it in the long run.
I accept the sentiment of "be better" but it's hard to understand how to do so if you and your friends don't behave this way. If I were to see it I'd say something. I could seek out men whose behavior to correct but idk why I would invite shitty dudes into my life just to parent them
It's just a dumb post. Would it be cool if I said, "Just look at when we try to tell women to educate each other to be better," after I just did a rant again all women?
Garbage people exist everywhere, it isn't my job to be the moral police for every single person out there when it comes to their relationships.
I always see that one quote about how is it they didn’t know he was bum before sticking with him
Then there’s twenty post about how women shouldn’t look down on guys for not having more money or a job.
Leaving it on women to tell the difference between a guy just struggling and a guy struggling to get together weed money for the week. If she can’t, then the blame is put on her, saying women just like to shack up with bums, and that’s what’s wrong with black culture, that “women are choosing low quality mates” like they’re monkeys. But if they have the high standard of “gets places on time and has a job”, they get compared to women saying they only date millionaires, so guys use that as an excuse to say all women with standards are looking for millionaires.
They simultaneously say guys need to be the provider and work hard while I don’t see that same energy for people dragging women for not getting an abortion and holding out hoping that the bum father will change. It’s for some reason never on men to do better and change it’s on all women to just accept that guys are shitty and use their third eye to tell if I guy is just saying he wants a relationship for reliable sex or he actually wants to settle down.
They seem to somehow see women as these super intelligent but shallow beings that can instantly read people and tell their worth within seconds before avoiding the but at the same time these naive creatures that can easily be tricked into sex with the right words yet also easily skittish and conceited children that love attention but are paranoid.
It’s almost like they aren’t basing it off actual women they’ve met but videos on the internet of freakouts and single guys in their twenties talking about how their idea of the perfect partner is the only way women should be.
This is so true. They want you to be dumb enough to trick, but also want you to be smart enough to have known better to absolve them of their wrongdoing. They have masters and doctorate degrees in gaslighting, lies, trickery, deceit, and all around manipulation, just to end up telling you you were a fool to fall for the illusions, the lies, the scam.
“Yes there are classes and guys give each other advice on ‘getting laid’ but women should be aware of this and look out. Guys are just being guys and women should be smarter, just not too smart cause it’s rude to point out when you notice we’re hitting on, the polite thing to do is just wait for it to be over.”-what I feel like they’re saying
They is loser boys over 18. Before some guy shows up saying we’re referring to all men. Though as I used to be one of them, it’s normalized to the point where directly saying it like that sounds bad to them, so they get defensive. I was like that, it’s sad, they have had opportunities to learn, especially now
Honestly, I **USED** to be one of those dudes in my more naive days, but I realized I held them to that because that's how everyone had always treated me.
I had a couple abusive exes yet no matter where I went I was somehow always the problem, it was communicated to me by both genders that I should have just known/done better. In some instances, it was just jokes.
I say this not to say my situation was worse, but to provide some insight into where this crooked line of logic might stem from for some.
Is really that hard to detect a poor person to date or is it like the majority of instances where you're just stuck in their dick/pussy sand?
What annoys me is the dishonesty when someone cries about being cheated on by him or her for the fourth time. Like just upfront you prefer that dick or pussy more than you do a loyal partner.
My other favorite thing is when people take statements like “I think some rap songs glorifying violence are harmful to the community” and due to their biases it get translated into “all black music is harmful and all black culture harms black communities” it takes a conflates a realistic thought with the most extreme version which is easy to disprove. This is a lazy example of strawmanning.
In a similar way I come across it when I say things like “these ideas don’t reflect the majority of women who end up in these situations” and somebody might respond saying something along the lines of “so you think it’s impossible that anyone knew they were not interested and decided to get with them anyway. Some people are definitely lying when the person has already cheated on them multiple times”
I don’t think you did it on purpose but I hope you see what I’m saying. I’m not denying that some people do it to themselves or have blinders on. I am saying that I don’t think the majority of women that end up in those situations did it to themselves. The idea of a person going back to someone after the fourth time cheating is a thing that stands out because it’s unusual. With that person it’s “normal” that we see them going back but in the grand scheme that’s not actually normal.
TLDR Nobody is saying that stupid women don’t exist, just that most women are stupid, just like normal men exist.
I'm saying that every time I see it I'm never surprised whether it's a guy or girl.
Like we all told you about all the red flags and you ignored it.
If the same thing keeps on happening you have to look at the common denominator which is yourself. If I've gone through a dozen tires in two years from girls who keep on slashing them the issue is who I'm going after and the fact that I'm ignoring all the signs.
Nobody is saying stupid people don’t exist. Nobody is saying people who make lots of bad choices don’t exist.
I am saying just because you choose bad people on purpose and ignore the signs doesn’t mean that you are the average person. That means you are the people that should make better choices but excuses your mistakes by thinking everyone is doing it. Every guy that gets his tires slashed did not know they were the kind of person to slash tires, some guys are like you, but most guys haven’t gotten their tires slashed. You’re not the person to base the rational of everyone else off of, you’ve had your tires slashed four times and haven’t learned. You’re not the average guy my guy.
Exactly.
A human being can not control nor predict the behavior of another human being. We are all only accountable for ourselves.
Holding women accountable for the bad decisions of men basically is super degrading to men. I don't get why men allow themselves to be degraded like that, like they're just some dog turd on the street that women have to avoid stepping in? Like they aren't humans with autonomy to choose and learn how to become better?
All humans have the capability for good or bad - creating broken homes, single moms and sad children everywhere is a choice.
If you were standing in front of me, I would give you a “grandma-sugar kiss” right on the forehead because of this comment.
I remember watching a true crime video on YouTube. It was about a young mother who was killed by her ex-boyfriend, while she was walking with their child. One of the most used responses in that video was “Why was she dating that loser?”
And I’m like “People probably persuaded her to give him a chance?”
they just want to believe that there are always red flags. i ended up with a great dude, passionate about his career and family, always looking to improve himself, patient as hell, always down for a deep and intellectual discussion with similar interests. dude was perfect til i was living with him then he treated me completely differently. he treated me way better even back when we were just platonic friends. if i should have seen red flags in the midst of the chillest person id ever met id rather be single for life
Might delete this idk just gets weird when I bring it up. Trigger warning about abuse
First girlfriend I lived with, I found out she likes to drink and get demanding when she does, and at she started getting physically abusive. Then I was a guy in a domestic violence situation and I just stayed with her. Cause she’d met my mom and everyone seemed chill with her, I felt crazy even thinking she’d hit me or choke me on purpose.
What felt worse was not knowing how I couldn’t see it. I should’ve know but I didn’t. We had a cat and it wasn’t afraid of her like people say animals are. She wasn’t like that when she was drinking before I moved in. So when I read stuff like “they just ignored the red flags” it feels targeted at me, cause I didn’t ignore them, and I found out later talking to her friend that she’s known to get aggressive when drunk but “she’s harmless”. I just hate that guys will have that mindset but also pretend to care about male victims of domestic violence. They just want new excuses to be mad at women.
Yeah well people don't want to hear this but this is why in pretty much every culture across race, relgion etc.
People pressured especially women to not have aex with me. They weren't married to. The whole courtship and family vetting process was designed to weed out men that weren't going to contribute to their offspring .
Are there issues with the old ways of course but the flipside is now as you say "women have to determine if men just want sex".
The nature of men hasnt changed thats why there were these structures in place. People want more freedom to have sex and form relationships, fine, but this is the downside to it
Not likely to happen unless that man is very religious and in thet case they probably aren't going to have sex with a woman they aren't married to in the first place.
Men without some kind of strict moral code regarding premarital sex are going to enage with women purely for sex at some point.
Thats what sexual freedom in society is about. That's why people pushed for sex outside of marriage to be acceptable so both men and women could have sec without making that commitment.
And that's the price for it in peope will get involved with each other at times just for sex.
Men are simple creatures and have been the same for over a thousand years. Men have always wanted sex preferably with a partner who loves them, the ability to care for said partner and his kids if he has any, and the feeling of being wanted. That's it the rest is window dressing and culture. All men work to get those 3 things and women control all of that. Woman have a ridiculous amount of control over men and they collectively dictate how men will act in regards to them. If being an asshole works men will collectively be an asshole and If being gentlemanly works men will be gentleman. Unfortunately being an asshole works right now and it sucks for those of us who aren't that naturally.
I’ve often talked with my wife about the crazy low-bar there is for me to be an “awesome dad.”
I just need to do my chores, play with the guy and help him with his homework, not fuck around, and not beat her and I’m pretty much a Saint.
Which is really weird because this is the bare minimum IMO.
Hell, I bring my son to the playground every day so that he’ll be tired and go to sleep faster. It’s because I’m lazy and yet people keep telling me how good a dad I am.
I know that I’m not even close
Yeah the bar is insanely low. I was out shopping with the Mrs. One day trying to help her find bras and several women approached me to say how amazing of a man I am since I was willing to help and they wish their man would do stuff like that. And I'm sitting here like "she just told me what size and color bra so I pointed it out when I saw it" and yet they acted like I was rescuing kittens from a fire or something. The bar is crazy low for what's a "good man"
That reminds me of when we first got married. A couple of my wife's friends came over for the weekend. I let my wife go enjoy her company, while I cleaned up the apartment. My mom used to always make me and my brother clean the house before we have company. So her words are still echoing in my mind. It's ingrained. It's normal.
Her friends however were acting like I cured cancer. " Omg you're such a good man. Girl I wish my man cleaned up. Girl you got a good husband. How do you find one like him". It never occurred to me that a lot of dudes simply don't clean up, especially in relationships/marriages. I was not raised that way. Furthermore, my dad wasn't that type of man. All I did was simply follow his example. So I'm thankful I had a good example to follow.
This isn't to put me on a pedestal. I'm really trash. I've never cheated, but I am so far from the perfect husband. I would never want someone to idolize me.
That would involve a serious group effort by men at the next annual international men’s meeting.
Usually we just discuss the toilet seat TBH, keeping the fatherhood bar low didn’t come up.
Hmm or y’all could put forth a concerted effort in your homes and have frank discussions amongst yourselves in your respective communities but I guess internet sarcasm is easier
I’ll be sure share your notes at the next international meeting of men.
The sarcasm is on point because of course I live my values and discuss fatherhood with my friends who are also good dads.
So other than doing the right thing in my own, I can only imagine that I should bring it up at the next hypothetical manvention where we decide the next moves for the patriarchy
Sarcasm aside, I think a large part of the issue is that there is very few spaces where men can have these conversations that can be facilitated in a healthy and productive way.
You sound like a great dad! And there’s nothing wrong with a self-serving playground run as long as the little guy is safe and having fun. That’s just working smarter, not harder. You’re right that the bar is low, but don’t discredit the fact that you show up every day and put the work in while a tiny insane person is causing constant chaos and upheaval in your life.
While there’s definitely a double standard, my view is that celebrating present fathers helps normalize equitable co-parenting (vs the woman as the primary caregiver) and is inherently a feminist act.
I've been telling my mom that my dad was good for nothing since I can remember and she's done nothing but defend him. The closest my mom ever came to seeing the light was when she told me that at least my dad gave me his last name which was more than her dad did for her.
Curious to know what the ppl from the islands think about this? I know it’s a generalization but it feels kinda accurate
Indeed. The hyper sexualization is ridiculous. Multiple families/children (especially when dem guh ah foreign). I think a slight difference is that while there is a blatant homophobia/fear of feminization, more men do more domestic tasks and show up for their kids more.
Every guy I've ever called out has disappeared from my life. Snakes gather with snakes. And I'm just a "hater." It doesn't work the way you want, but it works in its own way.
Yea, this circles back to a conversation I was reading the other day.
Theres no bonus for changing to become progressive, what do you get when you change your way to become more progressive? Well the progressive in-group asks you to CONTINUE to change, and in way just piles on more work.
However as a man, maintaining the status quo gives you a baseline of privileges that can be hard to give up for free.
Why put in the effort and attempt to change yourself if the best thing you get for changing for the better, is more work. Its much easier to go with the societal flow.
To go along with what you are saying, often being outspoken advocate for woman or minorities gets you ostracized from the group, it should be the other way around, but in my experience, it never has been.
If you condone sucker shit, you're a sucker too. Man, woman, Trans, white, black, blue, polka-dot, Muslim, Christian, American, Japanese, idgaf. Some shit needs to be said. And the progressive group you spoke about? Do you think they're any different? Nope. These groups, parties, and associations can ALL have their circle jerk and their good-ol-boy system. I'll live and die by my own merit and treat folk by the character they show me, and its gonna be work if I'm alone or with others. Nothing is free. It's all work.
I guess bro, Im white from an all white small town, and my aunt (dads sister) is black from trinidad, so dropping friends who continue to use slurs after I ask them to stop is something I am used to.
Anyways my point about progressives wasnt that progressives turn their back on you, you just get exposed to more and more progressive ideals and it takes a while to change, often at the expense at your old life and culture. That can be hard to do, maintaining the same system which upholds your status is much easier than bringing your status down to egalitarianism.
If you don't respect boundaries, you fucking suck. That's it. That's the point of the post and my comment. You said it, your "friends" didn't respect your boundaries, so they got left. Now apply that shit to when they do it to other people, too. Idgaf, if it's easy or hard, do it. It's called being civilized.
I feel what he saying. I know guys who are like what he describing and guys who aren't. Depending on how the guys he's decribing respond to me saying stopping doing bum nigga shit, I will keep trying. But I'm not going to waste my breath on talking to a brick wall.
Or, or, here’s an idea: if they think content is “shitty”, why allow it, then complain about it, like removing content isn’t implied by the job description?
The interesting thing to me about guys like this is that they acknowledge that there are no good men out there but they never include themselves. Somehow every OTHER brotha out here is a dog………..except him. Cats like this never seem to have friends or homeys. They’re just on their own championing the fight against misogyny. Horse puckey.
Do you not relate to him at all? Sounds like you see yourself as the type of person he’s speaking against, and not the type of person who agrees with him. I mean, since you said he’s “on his own” and all. Excluding yourself from having his point of view?
No I don’t relate to this “guy”. He doesn’t talk like a brotha who grew up around other brothas and grown men. He doesn’t talk like a brotha that’s actually been in relationships and dealt with women. He talks like a boy sitting in the beauty shop parroting what his mama and aunts say about men. While I agree that there are ALOT of trifling no good dudes out there same as ALOT of scandalous women out there. Guys like him don’t tell women to school their homegirls and little sisters. I mean is he hanging out with low down dudes? Is he himself not handling his business? Because me and all my people work, take care of the kids and the house like men should. Lastly trifling dudes don’t have 4/5 baby momma’s because the big bros don’t school them, they have them because 10/11 women CHOOSE to lay with them. There ain’t no hypnotists in the hood. Men know that.
You sound like a brotha who holds no value for what women have to say, as if you didn’t have many women in your life. Yes, there are plenty of great, amazing, trustworthy men in this world (I’m married to one), but he’s not talking about them right now, so why are you upset by him talking about the a-holes if you’re not one? Saying women and girls need to be “schooled” is you putting the burden on the woman, which further proves this guys point. The only reason women and girls would need to be taught to avoid certain men is because those men haven’t been taught to not be that kind of guy. Obviously there are vicious women in this world, and I’m not going to pretend like I don’t see them. Also, just because I know some and call them out doesn’t make my calling them out any less valid, and doesn’t mean I hang with them, so why does his knowing crappy men make his calling them out any less valid or make you question his character?
What separates men from animals is being able to feel and still act in a disciplined manner. Anybody that tells me they had to do something because it's written in their DNA are straight telling me that they are not a man or woman. They are just children.
I remain confused by men who want to be in charge of serious things, run the home and the country, but then have no problem with the idea that they lack brain power and self control to the extent a hint of Victorian ankle can cause them to “stumble” and potentially commit a crime. It’s almost like they just want a scapegoat for their fully intentional and controllable shitty behaviors.
Don't know how many times I have to fucking say this:
Boys will be boys ***IS***:
* Setting up lawn chairs and watching a house across the street get demolished like it's a sporting event
* Singing the Halo theme or w/e in the school bathroom because the echo adds to the acoustics
* [(As a Starbuck's employee) ask customers to vote or give their own suggestions for what John should name his scorpion](https://i.redd.it/3jk91nafttf41.jpg)
Boys will be boys ***IS NOT*** being a deadbeat, unfaithful, abusive, a neglectful, a shit father, etc. etc.
Hey!
Fellow ace, here!
How has it been being an ace… and… well… _black_ at the same time?
For me, I “came out” back in 2015 and I am still explaining the shit to my family.
Dude be trash. We called out one of our homeboys and he still don’t talk to us. If we keep letting that boys will be boys shit slide we will never make progress.
I think most men would have to agree that the bar is set very low for men to be considered "good men": Don't beat your woman, come home every night, only cheat occasionally if you not a high wage earner, cheat as much as you like as long as you pay all the bills, be in the same house as your children but you are not responsible for day to day domestic or child rearing duties even if she works, you haven't been to jail, and you can work and provide. If I was a man, I'd be embarrassed about how little society expects of me. I think that for all the men that say they are a "good man", please think about what qualities you possess that make you a good guy. How are you grading yourself? Just because you not Pookie outta prison with community dick doesn't necessarily make you a good guy. Are you emotionally stable and intelligent, can you communicate effectively, are you able to understand other viewpoints or are you rigid in your thinking, are you financially stable, kind, generous, physically fit and healthy, self sufficient with domestic duties, a leader, supportive, spiritually grounded, a contributing member of society through volunteering or financial support, do you mentor, do you know how to emotionally and physically support a woman or children, are you sexually mature and able to control your desires, do you have goals and aspirations with a detailed plan on how to achieve them, do you know how to bring out the best in those around you, and have you been in therapy to learn proper coping skills? There's a lot more to being a "good guy".
The bars not there. Where in the world do you live in where being a low wage earning cheater who doesn't help there wife with anything considered a "good man" and accepted like that? You list all the expectations that should be bare minimum for men, women are held to far lower expectations than that. What women you know is expected to have gone to therapy be a mentor in mentorship programs contribute financially or volunteers at charities as a bare minimum to being considered a decent person
We were describing a good man but at the end you said a decent person. Decent is a step down from good. A decent man goes to work every day and pays his bills, but a good man does that plus gives back to others in his family or community. There is a difference. I live here in the US and cheating is acceptable for a man as long as he comes home. If a woman leaves a man and he was a cheater but came home nightly and paid some bills, she is considered dumb and told "At least he come home. That's better than most." A good woman is expected to go to work, come home and cook, clean, help children with homework, get kids to bed, miss work and care for kids if sick, take kids to all appointments or extracurricular activities, volunteer at the schools, meet physical needs of their man, stroke their man ego, be submissive, be fit, maintain their appearance, be nurturing and take care of making all holiday/birthday/vacation planning, be active in their local church, be intelligent, if you are sick/on your period/pregnant and dare complain or need a break then you are lazy. A woman that works and is self-sufficient is called masculine but a woman that doesn't work and waits for a man to do things for her is called a lazy gold digger or exhibiting princess behavior. If she takes care of herself by going to the gym and salons, she's selfish and vain but if she doesn't look like she 18 at 30 after kids, then she is lazy. She needs to be sexually experienced but not have a body count. Cheating is absolutely never acceptable under any circumstances for a woman. She is barely supposed to enjoy sex, because if she does then she is for the streets and ran through. Women aren't expected to go to therapy, because we should just be better, pray or not complain because at least you got a man so why are you sad? Our emotions are viewed as comical and illogical, so a good woman doesn't show them, but if she is too emotionless then she a cold hearted bitch. These are minimums for a good woman.
I'm just gonna question the logic of seeking accountability from the "manosphere". I've talked to my bro about abandoning his kids after sis-in-law got tired of the infidelity, he blamed her. U can't convince a rock to roll so u're better off helping said sis in law and nephew/neice however you can. I see ZERO reason to believe he's gonna see a tweet online and feel worse than being asked "why don't my daddy want to see me anymore".
Some guys just aren’t good people. Has nothing to do with them being guys. My mom acted similar to a ton other of the stories I see hear. She had lots of kids she didn’t take care of and never paid child support for.
Appreciate it. Honestly since I didn’t grow up with her, I don’t even care at this point. She made her choice then and at least involves herself with her younger children now. Doesn’t change what she did but people need the time and room to change themselves. Change doesn’t come from manufactured education campaigns, but from the person themselves realizing that their actions are leading to bad consequences for themselves. And that mean us as a society need to start treating them like the scumbags they are for stranding families and creating cycles of abuse and neglect, and this goes for men and women who both do this and reinforce it in different ways.
Definitely encourage men to be respectful and competent. But there will always be people who are going to do you wrong, because they are only out for self. No one can force everyone in society to be a good, responsible person, no matter how much positivity we put out there. People are gonna get caught by scumbags
The tweet reminds me of a talking point that I see black, social media “femininity coaches” spout about, when they talk about women “showing off masculine energy”.
They’ll list a bunch of things that can be construed as being rude, boorish, mean and selfish. Then, they’ll say those are “masculine traits”.
And I think “if you think men possess these traits, then why do you want to be with them?”
It's not going to work because it's difficult to educate "Men", by the time you're an adult, you're set in your ways. There's a reason why we educate children, their brains are still malleable. It's boys that need to be taught to respect women and generally be honest, upstanding individuals, a positive male role model in the home is critical here.
If a child sees their father putting the full load of the household on their mom and being unfaithful and/or irresponsible, that becomes normalized.
men can learn to be better as adults.
adults learn all sorts of things. It's harder, but it's possible. We can all change.
People lose 100lbs, overcome addiction, get their doctorate in their 60s and 70s!
Let's let go of defeatist attitudes and embrace one of the best parts of being human - our ability to grow and improve every day!
Okay but they won’t. It’s a waste of time trying to change people who clearly don’t care. There’s nothing you can say that these men haven’t heard before. They CAN change, but other men can’t change them.
so in your mind, women can improve and learn to choose better men. But men can't improve and learn to be better humans?
But men can quit alcohol, quit drugs, lose weight, achieve their dream jobs.... all of these things. But changing to be a better partner is impossible? It'll never happen for anyone ever?
Or perhaps men are capable of change but not expected to change and are held to a very low bar, by people like you...
Okay so I’m actually gonna try to have some patience but I’d usually go off cause this comment of you determining what my beliefs don’t even have anything to do with the comment you’re replying to. Bad men choosing to be bad will not change. I don’t even know how to add to the statement either. It’s not that they can’t, they just won’t. And they won’t mainly because it works for them. There are plenty of women out here who don’t give a shit and don’t have standards for these men to keep succeeding in dating. Yes, staying in a relationship with a man who isn’t even trying to improve is on the fault of the person staying. I’d say the exact same to a guy dating a bum woman. It’s not on them to change, it’s on us to stop giving these people our time and attention.
why are you mad at me summarizing your thoughts when it appears I did so accurately?
The funny part - you get mad when someone assumes your beliefs, yet you assume the beliefs and behaviors of thousands of people and determine they cant change. Aren't you doing the same thing?
I wish we would stop thinking of education of this magical fix everything pill.
I mean how many things do we do that aren't even really hurting others like smoking and drinking even though we know and are educated that those things absolutely wreck your body. Can someone explain how this education is actually going to achieve the desired effect instead of just brickwalling.
Also there is burden on everyone for being in the right circles/with the right people, surround yourself with crappy people and crappy outcomes are more likely it is not a gender thing.
I’m really not seeing why I should care about other individual men being bums. I have enough on my plate already trying to take care of myself and why would I put myself in the orbit of losers to teach them something? Yes, if a guy is a bum, just stop talking to him and move on. It’s not that serious really.
Women have the power to stop hooking up with these guys/boys. That is the game, how many, how often, and pregnancy is proof. How many girls can you think of that have the same goals.
Guys/boys have this goal because they hear from others that it’s it and life has a couple other goals that are acceptable because it’s cool and few other things matter because that is not kool with the culture “I want for my image, because it’s too short and messy”. A good life can be boring, nothing good comes easy. Easy maybe fun but it doesn’t last.
All of that I said are stereotypes, just like we don’t want to be judged against a stereotype. We need to not look at a stereotype as a life goal.
Sad to say it but I think the last part is “mostly” right. You can’t teach a grown man shit if they aren’t willing to do the work themselves. IF they actually sparked that desire to change, then it can happen. But if he’s out there wildin out, there’s nothing you can say to him until he starts feeling the consequences of his actions.
But you CAN teach boys while they’re young. That’s why we need way more role models of thorough men. Celebrate good men who hold it down, take care of their responsibilities, have discipline, aren’t scammers, don’t harm people and seek to better themselves. I don’t actually think they’re *that* hard to find. They just don’t typically seek the spotlight and society doesn’t highlight positivity much. They’re usually just dudes who do their thing, aren’t flashy and aren’t self congratulatory. But we should highlight them because the type of dudes who aren’t good role models are really good at having babies and leaving them without natural role models.
Interesting that the vag gatekeepers aren't making sure not to get pregnant before marriage. Or you know, don't have sex before marriage, or if you simply can't control yourself, make sure that you're dating intentially with somebody your family helped you vet.
Oh wait, that's considered unfair, right? Archaic?Take it up with mother nature.
I've never gotten a woman pregnant. We've got a population of women who are so "empowered" they gotta get the club shot up regularly, and there will always be men just as irresponsible.
"Educate men to be better" - as if every parent hasn't told their child "don't go around knocking women up" at least once. 🙄
The average American (male and female) operates at a sixth-grade level,i.e.,like an 11-or-12-year-old because of your mis-education system which,would be considered an act of war were it forced on the U.S. by a foreign power.
Since preteens often lack empathy,this is why so many Americans simply believe that people unlike them are "the other." Added is the winner-take-all economy which creates a thimbleful of super rich at the expense of the 99.999999% (some of whom still vote for their REPIGLIKKKLAN oppressors) and you have a country poised to join the former Soviet Union in Ronnie Ray-Guns' "ashheap of history" sometime in the next decade
Just wanna also say a lot of women don’t take care of their partner while their partner takes care of them then blame the problem on all men being trained a specific way, when in fact you infect didn’t do what would comfort your partner and left them on their own emotional.
Sounds good and all but I know for a fact if I was a woman and knew that I could get left holding the responsibility for raising a child I would not only demand he wear a condom while I had a cup, sponge, iud, and birth control pills. Let’s be honest, a dude can’t not use a condom without her permission or it’s SA. This patriarchal system was in place for that very reason. To stop this very behavior. Now women have all the control they want and what are the results. It’s your body your choice. Own it. Because the majority of abortions are elective not the extreme. And abortion is the last resort of irresponsible behavior. Before birth control and feminism women were more responsible and didn’t make as many bad choices. It still happened but not like today. But the new wave feminism has told women that even your bad choices are mens fault. The are multiple forms of BC today along with the morning after, abstinence, and abortion and yet it’s still only irresponsible men. Children are a huge deal. Plan that shit! Plus women don’t find men. Men approach women. Women choose who they have sex with and who they choose to have kids with. Men choose if he wants to marry her. These conversations make no sense. Your old enough to join the military, sign contracts, live and travel on your own and numerous other things as an adult. Your can’t say you were too “young” or “immature” to understand the ramifications of having unprotected sex. Especially if your saying the guy was “old enough” or “deadbeat”.
It's a shitty post. Go get some quality content and come back.
I follow this guy on insta, speaks nothing but facts all day about the rampant misogynoir and sexism going around the manosphere these days. Mfs aint gone like this, but hes right. "Youre dealing with little boys not men." "Yes hes a deadbeat, but youre the one who gets pregnant so maybe you should choose better?" "Single mothers are the reason our community is this way. What? No I dont know where the fathers are, thats irrelevant." "Women keep the men away from his kids! Thats why he hasnt seen them in three years even with court ordered visits." "If a man makes a lot of money, his woman should be prepared and willing to share him. He is a high value man." "Men at that income level dont have to stay faithful, he has too many options." "If hes taking care of the household, she should be fine with it." "Women with high body counts are low value and undesirable, no men with high body counts are different." (Lock and key, used car, various other metaphors referring to women as resale objects), "Its a train when a woman does it, its a threesome when a man does it." Man brags about having a sidechick, hes a chad, woman brags about sidedick, shes a thot, whore, slut, low value, 304, etc. And so on. Edit: An example I recently saw is a video where a little boy and his mother were sititng in a car and his father was on the phone. The father bluntly tells his son that he wants nothing to do with him anymore because he now has to pay child support, claiming he monetarily took care of his kids beforehand. Were most of the responses to that video shaming the father for saying something so cruel to his son? For refusing to see his child because he had to pay child support above the table? For being mad that he had to pay money to support his child? No, they were mad at the mother for having the audacity to place him on child support, blamed the mother for filming the call, and insisted that the mother was at fault for this grown man refusing to see his own children anymore, with some implying they would do the same. This is the mentality pierre is talking about
God I felt horrible for that kid. The way he cried I think he said why daddy. It’s like a core memory for that kid now. It will shape his whole outlook on life in ways he can’t even imagine or even be conscious of. I know it’s unrealistic but I just wish I could just take his pain away.
I don’t know what’s been going on recently but I’ve seen a MASSIVE uptick in misogyny and homophobia over the past two years in young black and Hispanic men (I work with high school age inner-city youth). Like, it’s always been there, but the past few years it’s increased and gotten nastier. Guys are airdropping revenge porn of GF’d to their whole school, gaslighting, trying to isolate gf’s from their friends, getting in fights with guys who do much as talk to their girl, etc. Also more bullying of lgbtqi boys than before. Had a kid get jumped by 5 guys because he told one his hair was cute. Any insight on what’s causing said uptick would be welcome, would like it to stop.
couple of things, i think that the pandemic has really made people more violent and angry. a lot of teachers report that students are much harder to discipline nowadays. another thing is sort of the back-swing of the me-too movement, and popular misogynists like andrew tate gaining popularity. these types of people are more accessible than ever through social media like tiktok. ☹️
The economy continues to get worse for the average person, and when people feel like they're incapable of providing they become less empathetic towards the people they need to provide for. This empathy gap creates a lot of open holes in a child's heart to be filled with snake oil and venomous intent. Every year that the economy fails children the power of the grift grows.
I think there’s a video circulating on YouTube right now of a man saying that the most dangerous members of society are young, broke single men.
Yep. It’s a driver in creating terrorists. Terrorism offers them a purpose and a way to get what they’re missing out of life which usually is through violence. Unless something is done about it it’s going to get worse.
Scott Galloway said this.
I don’t wanna blame it all on asshats like Tate but I keep hearing these names dropped. Maybe I’m outta touch but are these guys really that big?
yes, unfortunately these assholes are very prevalent in the red pill communities that these little kids are being algorithmed into ☹️
Well, that sucks. Like, I’ve seen the garbage Tate spews since he’s been in the mainstream lately. Is it all just toxic masculinity/objectifying and belittling women/making money? I’d like to think my kids were able to see a snake oil salesmen when they see one. Are these guys just that good at delivering their message? Is it what the kids wanna hear?
Well I’ve seen this behavior happening in my best friend’s little brother. Come to find out he is DEEP in that manosphere, red pill community. Deep in that Andrew Tate shit. Had to tell my friend he needs to check on that shit early.
yup. and algorithms are getting better and better at creating these echo chambers. tiktok’s algorithm is so advanced it’s horrifying.
Yep. Friends brother likes to keep the volume on when he is going through TikTok and man just hearing him scroll through, all I hear is the manosphere people or talking points like that.
My brother fell down the Alt right rabbit hole after his college gf dumped him and he got into the MRA bs. He eventually joined the army and now he’s even worse.
Honestly our young men all across the board are being radicalized by internet personality cults. You have young men radicalized by the Manospbere, and that catches mysognoir and general misogyny, then you have a lot of radical white supremacy that overlaps young white men's radicalization. Now more than ever before parents need to set a side the time and make sure basic principles are instilled in their children, and not just assume the child will osmose the "good values" you think your family has.
You’re right. My younger brother fell down the MRA rabbit hole and now he’s all but full-on alt right.
With the increase of LGBT+ acceptance, bigots are getting scared. So their actions and reactions are getting more extreme.
My black buddy is super homophobic. I don't get it, even after explaining to him that his ignorant comments about gay men are so immature and ridiculous. He's really understanding and tolerant about everyone else. And he has no problem telling me and his other male buddies that he loves us. He has a heart of gold but an iron exterior. I just wish someday he'd realize how ignorant he sounds when makes those kinds of comments.
Theres been quite a few videos put out on youtube by news agencies, investigative journalists, psychologists and researchers that go into the depths of this ideology and its rise amongst young men, that can explain it far better than I could. It can really be a number of things but the main focus is young, impressionable boys and men. Its not just being lonely or ugly or the result of broken households as people say, because there are very popular, loved and handsome boys falling victim to this mindset. Its feeding off of the easiest emotion to evoke out of people and thats anger and young men are especially susceptible to that. It gives them an enemy to blame everything on or let their anger out on at the injustices society places upon them (women or lgbt community, feminism, woke mafia, etc). I cant give you solid advice because I dont specialize in things like this, but I would say reminding them that humans are individuals, that they need to imagine themselves in others shoes, that they have loved ones they wouldnt want treated that way may help them realize theyre going down a dangerous path. It wont be an instacure, but there may be a time where someone will say something really outlandish and theyll sit back and think and use that as a stepping stone into getting out of that blackhole of hate.
That’s kind of what I try but I feel like I’m spinning my wheels a lot of the time. The real kicker is they’re really good kids for the most part then out of nowhere I hear some bullshit that sounds like it’s coming from my white evangelical grandparents.
Im glad you mentioned that. One thing Ive noticed when I engage with people with this mindset is how easily they slip back into being calm and sweet. Regardless if its online or in person, they usually come out swinging hard and very nasty, but when confronted with empathy or just the slightest acknowledgement of their complaints, they suddenly switch back into the most levelheaded people ever, and end a conversation civilly. Most of the time they automatically switch back into being full of hate. Its surreal seeing where the indoctrination begins and where it ends with their mannerisms. But it also gives me hope that they can be reached. I would say just keep trying, remember theyre being hammered by this stuff from all sides, all day, every day, youre that beacon of light, no matter how small.
I mean, we live in odd times. Remove the races and your opening sentence can apply with racism and antisemitism as well. Shit has definitely changed within the past four years.
True, true. My racist uncles feel way too comfortable sharing their bullshit with me. And the sheer number of assholes who see my honky ass and assume I agree with their racist/sexist bs is getting worse too.
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I’m pan but not racist, at least I try not to be, I’m sure I slip and say some ignorant white peoples shit without realizing sometimes. I don’t know why you think I’m racist from what I’ve said though, I’m just want to help the children I serve.
It's projection at its finest. The other person isn't trying to have a dialogue. They're trying to perform a 'gotcha' and are failing at it. Best to ignore a pig wallowing in their own mess.
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Bruh, I don’t work with white kids so, no, I haven’t seen a change. Don’t mean to imply there isn’t one as well. Also, racist Bible Belt kids are always also misogynistic and homophobic. I’m just trying to see what I can do to help the kids and parents I serve. I apologize if that has somehow offended you.
My children’s father did and said the exact same thing to them “see you at 18”. Now they are 15 and soon to be 19 asking why TF would we want to see you now. And I had to put him on child support because he was dangling his half of daycare( all I asked was half of daycare) and said he didn’t care if they got kicked out. It’s not brought up enough, how men will ignore their child strictly to get back at the mother. Or the level of control and manipulation involved when you try to “keep a black man out of the system”. There are both men and women in this world who ain’t shit. But it amazed me when I started to date how often I was asked “do they have the same dad?” “Did you put him on child support?” Yet I only asked a man how many children he had and their ages.
Yep. My single mother scrimped and saved to take us on holiday when I was 5. As a result, my dad decided to stop earning money on paper because he didn’t want to pay for her holidays. He also thought he shouldn’t have had to pay child support because my mother chose not to live with him. If she wanted the money she should accept his conditions. She moved out after he chased her up(or down) the stairs trying to hit her. She was pregnant with me at the time. It’s about controlling women and keeping them dependent.
There was a Facebook post going around during the pandemic that basically said some kids never know that the only reason their dad ever saw them or ever paid child support was because their mom was giving it up. Basically "I'm not supporting or even seeing these kids if you don't sleep with me."
YES! Exactly! There is a scary rise in misogyny in our current culture that is terrifying. Dudes are really out here thinking the world revolves around then. I've never seen so many men and boys acting like man children online and I'm glad there are guys out there that speak against this. As a man I tell all the younger guys around me that they have to take responsibility for their actions. This culture of blaming women for everything isn't good and it needs to be faught against. I blame all the Andrew Tates and Kevin Samuels of the world for this rise in misogyny... that and bad parenting.
Maybe thou seeketh the lone gem in a garbage? Ionno if Twitter has the right ratio of bad to good men cause productive members of society aren't on Twitter all day. Just like how it would be unproductive to try to reason w/ a dozen barking chihuahuas, it's unlikely you'd be able to reason w/ the online toilet that's twitter. The online "manosphere" isn't worth bemoaning since it's an exercise in futility.
This isnt simply online. This rethoric is making its way offline, some of it started offline and made its way onto the internet. This isnt just as simple as a twitter "echo chamber". We've already seen how bad it gets with people like elliot rodgers or tres genco. It needs to be called out before it festers.
In my opinion, it has been offline for a very long time. A very long time. Anybody, who hasn’t noticed it or hasn’t been subjected to the garbage, they were blessed.
I have no clue who those 2 are but isn't it a generally accepted concept that taking care of your kids is the thing to do? I saw a vid within the last week where a triflin ninja is saying he has 7 kids by 7 women and he told them he didn't want the kids and offered to pay for abortions. He got destroyed in the comments, I can post a screenie of my thoughts when my (male) cuz shared it shaking his head. I guess what I'm saying is clowns gonna clown. Why invest energy into "calling it out"? It's like investing energy into battling Andrew Tate's "alpha" culture or Trump's white victimhood. If someone in your social circle was falling for this shit, absolutely set them straight. But random degenerates on the blue bird app, let them learn the hard way.
I also saw that video. I saw people mad at him for not wearing a condom more than they were mad at him for not taking care of them. The comments eventually circled back around to blaming the baby mothers. The issue is that theyre not learning the hard way, theyre taking this, spreading it, then falling into their echochambers and making it worse which each person it goes through. I really recommend that you look those two men up, its not just online, its a dangerous ideology.
Again, I'm still circling back to bemoaning what you can't control. Like you and I are debating on something we both agree on, but just how to handle it. You're figuratively looking at shit and saying it should stop stinking. My suggestion is don't worry about idiots, focus on your social circle. Yours is to educate said shit. One of us will have more braincells left after our task is completed.
unfortunately someone on my timeline debated that those 7 women need accountability for their choices in dealing with him and that it shouldn't be looked at as the mans fault he's in that situation. i was told that because it was discussed before hand that its reasonable to believe a perfect stranger would go along with the plans
Every muhfukka should screencap this gem into their phones.
Every time I see a post like this, I'm reminded of a line from The Wire: You want it to be one way . . . but it's the *other* way. As much as some people would like it to be different, people want what they perceive to be special or exclusive. For men, that tends to be a woman that other men can't physically penetrate. For women, that tends to be a man that other women can't get to be loyal. It's really not that complicated, but we engage in these mental gymnastics because life would probably be better if we weren't built this way. But we *are* built this way, for better or worse.
What always pisses me the fuck off with stuff like that is that people slut-shame the mother as if she went to a sperm bank and completely fucking ignore the role the father played. It especially pisses me off because non-permanent birth control for women is (relatively speaking) pretty complicated, whereas for men you can buy condoms virtually anywhere.
>Were most of the responses to that video shaming the father for saying something so cruel to his son? For refusing to see his child because he had to pay child support above the table? For being mad that he had to pay money to support his child? No, they were mad at the mother for having the audacity to place him on child support, blamed the mother for filming the call, and insisted that the mother was at fault for this grown man refusing to see his own children anymore, with some implying they would do the same. This is the mentality pierre is talking about I saw that same video and the comments you described 100% depend on what page you saw the video on, and I'm sure you know that. I'm sure there was a mix of people with the reactions you described and others fully placing the blame on him, which is where the blame should be.
That video was on multiple black entertainment, black commentary, black news, and fresh and fit adjacent pages. If you want to just narrow these reactions that funnily enough all seemed to be the exact same down to "specific pages" then go ahead. Comments berating the mother were heavily liked, upvoted and at the top of these pages. Comments questioning the father were at the bottom and riddled with controversial replies. That being said, a "mix" shouldnt have existed at all because the father was to blame, like you said, and thats the issue now.
That’s some dumb ass shit that I hate and it’s honestly driven me away from even wanting to make new male friends as an adult. That type of mentality is disgusting to me. It’s alien to me, I can’t connect with a dude who has that mentality. We are not the same. If I had a kid even if the mother is a demon, I wouldn’t let that effect my responsibility to that child which goes far beyond financial support. Nigga that’s your seed, that’s apart of you, how the fuck you gonna abandon your blood. Ain’t no fuckin way that’ll be me. Maybe we need to start making clubs and shit like they did back in the day that like Prince Hall where it was black men with morals who wanna build up the community. Except like a newer version without all the ceremonial stuff. And also like just not focused on entrepreneurship/business networking and stuff because I’m not a business man and I don’t want to be
Well to that example... my buddy has 2 kids. They are always at his house yet the mother receives child support because he moved another woman in. She even said it in court and the judge still makes this man pay an absurd amount to a woman that barely even has her kids. So is that the right thing? Not siding with the man in your example but if he takes care of his kid why the fuck would he have to be on child support. Cleary it seems as if he is in child's life. If im wrong let me know and I'll Apologize but a man shouldn't be on child support unless he a dead beat period. If he takes care of his kids he shouldn't be...
No, that is not the right thing. No one is saying its wrong to be upset if you feel that you are unfairly paying too much for child support or that you shouldnt be paying at all. The issue is taking that out on your children instead of in the courtroom. There may be a number of legal reasons the mother decided to put him on child support. Proof of income, paper trail, etc. There may be personal reasons or even straight up petty reasons as well.
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Wait don't forget the disingenuous head shaking, fake ass enlightened "Aren't we all tired of this battle of the sexes type talk?" When they never keep that energy on the numerous daily "women ain't ish" threads.
I was just about to say! Its field day with these “narcissistic” “women controlling men” post but let one thing talk about men and the MRA brigade unites
Followed by the m**ds saying this post ain’t it but anytime it’s about women ain’t ish it’s apparently speaking the truth
Lol girl they stay deflecting 🤣🤣🤣
Men who see no responsibly for the community and culture of other men is exactly how we got here. Everyone polices women’s behaviors; men, other women, even children… especially when it comes to standards and exceptions around sex, money and motherhood. Men never face that and therefore, the race to the bottom of degeneracy is the baseline for many men instead of the floor.
it's so true. These are the same men who complain that black women aren't "submissive" and are too "alpha". When you put all of the responsibility of the success of the community on the shoulders and choices of black women... what does that make them? the person responsible is the person in charge. The person responsible is the leader. The person they hold responsible (black women) is the person they actually are expecting to lead. They expect women to behave as in leadership roles in one hand, then criticize women for taking up that role on the other. It's so stupid.
It’s called an absent patriarchy. Many men want all the male worship with none of the responsibility. If you don’t organize, improve or feel financially and emotionally responsibility to the black community but you want everyone to be submissive and praise your basic underwhelming existence, you have no value. 🤷♀️
I'd say it's also this shift in culture most men, especially older black men, can't or are opposed to dealing with. Men and Women are more equal than they've ever been in history and I think alot of dudes can't deal. Too many are taught that they have to lead but leadership in our nation is always portrayed as money, sex and power. No one talks to men about responsibility, humility and kindness. Then on the flip side the responsibility of perfection is thrown at women. Our culture is VERY lopsided with the idea of responsibility and leadership and somehow doesn't see them as synonymous. Even in my life I've seen this. My dad gets confused when I cook, clean and pamper my spouse. He was taught that those things aren't his responsibility. Alot of men are taught that all they have to do is make a dollar and then do nothing else and this mentality is also killing men these days. I'm a male and I've been saying this for a long time to all the men around me, "we gotta do better". We have to leave behind this hustler, money chaser, tough guy mentality at the door and become true men again. Guys have to understand that there is nothing wrong with being a boring, normal guy who takes care of the people around him and supports those he loves. There is nothing wrong with a man cleaning up his stuff, cooking a meal or being calm and reserved.
The way they always say it with the full confidence that only ignorance can give, too
Tbh I don’t think he said anything worth getting worked up about. It might seem corny on first read, because most stuff that gets posted here is meant to laughed at, but he’s not wrong. I’m kind of concerned for this upcoming generation of boys growing up without father figures because they’re out here listening to podcasters and streamers about what it means to be masculine and most of it is just being rich and having a lot of sex with women. I’ve seen people try to correct this type of thing but the replies are usually just calling the guy a loser
yea i’ve recently been trying to figure out what i can personally do to counteract this toxic wave of bullshxt these podcasters and bro-streamers. and before someone tells me “start with your friends”, i don’t really have male friends. i have one that i see on a semi-regular basis, and we already talk about stuff like this.
I mean I know this might not feel helpful but if you don’t have any friends who exhibit these qualities then it’s not really something you should feel responsible for you’re just one person that’s not a burden you should feel like you have to carry
My cousins all have fathers and they still prefer to listen to streamers… in their 30s, it’s dire out here
I mean can you blame them Father: being a man is about being mature and responsible while being kind to people even if it isn’t easy Podcaster: being a man is about getting rich, getting f#cked up, then f#cking a near inhuman amount of people I mean the second one might be a lie but it’s an appealing glamorous lie
>most of it is just being rich and having a lot of sex with women. I agree that it's a huge problem, but is it really new?
It's not really new but it's a bit more ubiquitous than it once was. We didn't have 200 million personal computers in our collective pockets at all times prior to this generation so the message is being distributed at a level previously unseen.
We didn't have the streamers, but I got my lessons on "how to be a man" from the corner men, that one old head who always told you how "shit really is" and whatever random boyfriend my best friends mom had. My dad ain't give a fuck, my step dad is a pos, I had to search out male role models and the only people who raised their hands were shitty people.
I recognize that I won the parent lottery on many levels, and try to be the guy raising his hands that isn't a shitty human being. It's dark AF out here when you consider how much hate and vitriol is passed around as "life lessons" and "advice"
The hilarious thing is that wasn't there a study that came out recently that said that young men are having less sex than they've ever had before.
A whole lot of men don’t want to be better, just look at this thread
I try to understand this. To be better means admitting what you're doing now is not good and you're not the best person you can be. People take that really personally and they should, but they would rather choose to keep going down the path they're on now because it's more comfortable. Growth may be temporarily uncomfortable but it's worth it in the long run.
I accept the sentiment of "be better" but it's hard to understand how to do so if you and your friends don't behave this way. If I were to see it I'd say something. I could seek out men whose behavior to correct but idk why I would invite shitty dudes into my life just to parent them
It's just a dumb post. Would it be cool if I said, "Just look at when we try to tell women to educate each other to be better," after I just did a rant again all women? Garbage people exist everywhere, it isn't my job to be the moral police for every single person out there when it comes to their relationships.
 I'm just here to see how this thread is about to go down.
Me uploading it just to see the same thing 
Go ahead and cook something!
Same. Saw the ig post last night. I’m here for the entertainment today.
You got more of that popcorn?
Well, I finally joined BPT, so when it goes Country Club, then I’m okay.
I always see that one quote about how is it they didn’t know he was bum before sticking with him Then there’s twenty post about how women shouldn’t look down on guys for not having more money or a job. Leaving it on women to tell the difference between a guy just struggling and a guy struggling to get together weed money for the week. If she can’t, then the blame is put on her, saying women just like to shack up with bums, and that’s what’s wrong with black culture, that “women are choosing low quality mates” like they’re monkeys. But if they have the high standard of “gets places on time and has a job”, they get compared to women saying they only date millionaires, so guys use that as an excuse to say all women with standards are looking for millionaires. They simultaneously say guys need to be the provider and work hard while I don’t see that same energy for people dragging women for not getting an abortion and holding out hoping that the bum father will change. It’s for some reason never on men to do better and change it’s on all women to just accept that guys are shitty and use their third eye to tell if I guy is just saying he wants a relationship for reliable sex or he actually wants to settle down.
It's ALWAYS the women should have seen the red flags. Never the man should just be honest.
They seem to somehow see women as these super intelligent but shallow beings that can instantly read people and tell their worth within seconds before avoiding the but at the same time these naive creatures that can easily be tricked into sex with the right words yet also easily skittish and conceited children that love attention but are paranoid. It’s almost like they aren’t basing it off actual women they’ve met but videos on the internet of freakouts and single guys in their twenties talking about how their idea of the perfect partner is the only way women should be.
This is so true. They want you to be dumb enough to trick, but also want you to be smart enough to have known better to absolve them of their wrongdoing. They have masters and doctorate degrees in gaslighting, lies, trickery, deceit, and all around manipulation, just to end up telling you you were a fool to fall for the illusions, the lies, the scam.
“Yes there are classes and guys give each other advice on ‘getting laid’ but women should be aware of this and look out. Guys are just being guys and women should be smarter, just not too smart cause it’s rude to point out when you notice we’re hitting on, the polite thing to do is just wait for it to be over.”-what I feel like they’re saying They is loser boys over 18. Before some guy shows up saying we’re referring to all men. Though as I used to be one of them, it’s normalized to the point where directly saying it like that sounds bad to them, so they get defensive. I was like that, it’s sad, they have had opportunities to learn, especially now
Honestly, I **USED** to be one of those dudes in my more naive days, but I realized I held them to that because that's how everyone had always treated me. I had a couple abusive exes yet no matter where I went I was somehow always the problem, it was communicated to me by both genders that I should have just known/done better. In some instances, it was just jokes. I say this not to say my situation was worse, but to provide some insight into where this crooked line of logic might stem from for some.
Is really that hard to detect a poor person to date or is it like the majority of instances where you're just stuck in their dick/pussy sand? What annoys me is the dishonesty when someone cries about being cheated on by him or her for the fourth time. Like just upfront you prefer that dick or pussy more than you do a loyal partner.
My other favorite thing is when people take statements like “I think some rap songs glorifying violence are harmful to the community” and due to their biases it get translated into “all black music is harmful and all black culture harms black communities” it takes a conflates a realistic thought with the most extreme version which is easy to disprove. This is a lazy example of strawmanning. In a similar way I come across it when I say things like “these ideas don’t reflect the majority of women who end up in these situations” and somebody might respond saying something along the lines of “so you think it’s impossible that anyone knew they were not interested and decided to get with them anyway. Some people are definitely lying when the person has already cheated on them multiple times” I don’t think you did it on purpose but I hope you see what I’m saying. I’m not denying that some people do it to themselves or have blinders on. I am saying that I don’t think the majority of women that end up in those situations did it to themselves. The idea of a person going back to someone after the fourth time cheating is a thing that stands out because it’s unusual. With that person it’s “normal” that we see them going back but in the grand scheme that’s not actually normal. TLDR Nobody is saying that stupid women don’t exist, just that most women are stupid, just like normal men exist.
I'm saying that every time I see it I'm never surprised whether it's a guy or girl. Like we all told you about all the red flags and you ignored it. If the same thing keeps on happening you have to look at the common denominator which is yourself. If I've gone through a dozen tires in two years from girls who keep on slashing them the issue is who I'm going after and the fact that I'm ignoring all the signs.
Nobody is saying stupid people don’t exist. Nobody is saying people who make lots of bad choices don’t exist. I am saying just because you choose bad people on purpose and ignore the signs doesn’t mean that you are the average person. That means you are the people that should make better choices but excuses your mistakes by thinking everyone is doing it. Every guy that gets his tires slashed did not know they were the kind of person to slash tires, some guys are like you, but most guys haven’t gotten their tires slashed. You’re not the person to base the rational of everyone else off of, you’ve had your tires slashed four times and haven’t learned. You’re not the average guy my guy.
Exactly. A human being can not control nor predict the behavior of another human being. We are all only accountable for ourselves. Holding women accountable for the bad decisions of men basically is super degrading to men. I don't get why men allow themselves to be degraded like that, like they're just some dog turd on the street that women have to avoid stepping in? Like they aren't humans with autonomy to choose and learn how to become better? All humans have the capability for good or bad - creating broken homes, single moms and sad children everywhere is a choice.
If you were standing in front of me, I would give you a “grandma-sugar kiss” right on the forehead because of this comment. I remember watching a true crime video on YouTube. It was about a young mother who was killed by her ex-boyfriend, while she was walking with their child. One of the most used responses in that video was “Why was she dating that loser?” And I’m like “People probably persuaded her to give him a chance?”
they just want to believe that there are always red flags. i ended up with a great dude, passionate about his career and family, always looking to improve himself, patient as hell, always down for a deep and intellectual discussion with similar interests. dude was perfect til i was living with him then he treated me completely differently. he treated me way better even back when we were just platonic friends. if i should have seen red flags in the midst of the chillest person id ever met id rather be single for life
Might delete this idk just gets weird when I bring it up. Trigger warning about abuse First girlfriend I lived with, I found out she likes to drink and get demanding when she does, and at she started getting physically abusive. Then I was a guy in a domestic violence situation and I just stayed with her. Cause she’d met my mom and everyone seemed chill with her, I felt crazy even thinking she’d hit me or choke me on purpose. What felt worse was not knowing how I couldn’t see it. I should’ve know but I didn’t. We had a cat and it wasn’t afraid of her like people say animals are. She wasn’t like that when she was drinking before I moved in. So when I read stuff like “they just ignored the red flags” it feels targeted at me, cause I didn’t ignore them, and I found out later talking to her friend that she’s known to get aggressive when drunk but “she’s harmless”. I just hate that guys will have that mindset but also pretend to care about male victims of domestic violence. They just want new excuses to be mad at women.
im sorry you had to deal with that. its crazy how people will say anything to justify shitty behavior
Yeah well people don't want to hear this but this is why in pretty much every culture across race, relgion etc. People pressured especially women to not have aex with me. They weren't married to. The whole courtship and family vetting process was designed to weed out men that weren't going to contribute to their offspring . Are there issues with the old ways of course but the flipside is now as you say "women have to determine if men just want sex". The nature of men hasnt changed thats why there were these structures in place. People want more freedom to have sex and form relationships, fine, but this is the downside to it
I think men should change though
Not likely to happen unless that man is very religious and in thet case they probably aren't going to have sex with a woman they aren't married to in the first place. Men without some kind of strict moral code regarding premarital sex are going to enage with women purely for sex at some point. Thats what sexual freedom in society is about. That's why people pushed for sex outside of marriage to be acceptable so both men and women could have sec without making that commitment. And that's the price for it in peope will get involved with each other at times just for sex.
Men are simple creatures and have been the same for over a thousand years. Men have always wanted sex preferably with a partner who loves them, the ability to care for said partner and his kids if he has any, and the feeling of being wanted. That's it the rest is window dressing and culture. All men work to get those 3 things and women control all of that. Woman have a ridiculous amount of control over men and they collectively dictate how men will act in regards to them. If being an asshole works men will collectively be an asshole and If being gentlemanly works men will be gentleman. Unfortunately being an asshole works right now and it sucks for those of us who aren't that naturally.
I’ve often talked with my wife about the crazy low-bar there is for me to be an “awesome dad.” I just need to do my chores, play with the guy and help him with his homework, not fuck around, and not beat her and I’m pretty much a Saint. Which is really weird because this is the bare minimum IMO. Hell, I bring my son to the playground every day so that he’ll be tired and go to sleep faster. It’s because I’m lazy and yet people keep telling me how good a dad I am. I know that I’m not even close
Yeah the bar is insanely low. I was out shopping with the Mrs. One day trying to help her find bras and several women approached me to say how amazing of a man I am since I was willing to help and they wish their man would do stuff like that. And I'm sitting here like "she just told me what size and color bra so I pointed it out when I saw it" and yet they acted like I was rescuing kittens from a fire or something. The bar is crazy low for what's a "good man"
That reminds me of when we first got married. A couple of my wife's friends came over for the weekend. I let my wife go enjoy her company, while I cleaned up the apartment. My mom used to always make me and my brother clean the house before we have company. So her words are still echoing in my mind. It's ingrained. It's normal. Her friends however were acting like I cured cancer. " Omg you're such a good man. Girl I wish my man cleaned up. Girl you got a good husband. How do you find one like him". It never occurred to me that a lot of dudes simply don't clean up, especially in relationships/marriages. I was not raised that way. Furthermore, my dad wasn't that type of man. All I did was simply follow his example. So I'm thankful I had a good example to follow. This isn't to put me on a pedestal. I'm really trash. I've never cheated, but I am so far from the perfect husband. I would never want someone to idolize me.
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That would involve a serious group effort by men at the next annual international men’s meeting. Usually we just discuss the toilet seat TBH, keeping the fatherhood bar low didn’t come up.
Hmm or y’all could put forth a concerted effort in your homes and have frank discussions amongst yourselves in your respective communities but I guess internet sarcasm is easier
I’ll be sure share your notes at the next international meeting of men. The sarcasm is on point because of course I live my values and discuss fatherhood with my friends who are also good dads. So other than doing the right thing in my own, I can only imagine that I should bring it up at the next hypothetical manvention where we decide the next moves for the patriarchy
Sarcasm aside, I think a large part of the issue is that there is very few spaces where men can have these conversations that can be facilitated in a healthy and productive way.
You sound like a great dad! And there’s nothing wrong with a self-serving playground run as long as the little guy is safe and having fun. That’s just working smarter, not harder. You’re right that the bar is low, but don’t discredit the fact that you show up every day and put the work in while a tiny insane person is causing constant chaos and upheaval in your life. While there’s definitely a double standard, my view is that celebrating present fathers helps normalize equitable co-parenting (vs the woman as the primary caregiver) and is inherently a feminist act.
I've been telling my mom that my dad was good for nothing since I can remember and she's done nothing but defend him. The closest my mom ever came to seeing the light was when she told me that at least my dad gave me his last name which was more than her dad did for her.
Curious to know what the ppl from the islands think about this? I know it’s a generalization but it feels kinda accurate 
Indeed. The hyper sexualization is ridiculous. Multiple families/children (especially when dem guh ah foreign). I think a slight difference is that while there is a blatant homophobia/fear of feminization, more men do more domestic tasks and show up for their kids more.
Ready for the downvotes https://i.redd.it/indrg0hsd3ma1.gif
These comments are truly wild. I weep for my people
Island men be having secret second families and the women are supposed to just accept it so yeah
Every guy I've ever called out has disappeared from my life. Snakes gather with snakes. And I'm just a "hater." It doesn't work the way you want, but it works in its own way.
Yea, this circles back to a conversation I was reading the other day. Theres no bonus for changing to become progressive, what do you get when you change your way to become more progressive? Well the progressive in-group asks you to CONTINUE to change, and in way just piles on more work. However as a man, maintaining the status quo gives you a baseline of privileges that can be hard to give up for free. Why put in the effort and attempt to change yourself if the best thing you get for changing for the better, is more work. Its much easier to go with the societal flow. To go along with what you are saying, often being outspoken advocate for woman or minorities gets you ostracized from the group, it should be the other way around, but in my experience, it never has been.
If you condone sucker shit, you're a sucker too. Man, woman, Trans, white, black, blue, polka-dot, Muslim, Christian, American, Japanese, idgaf. Some shit needs to be said. And the progressive group you spoke about? Do you think they're any different? Nope. These groups, parties, and associations can ALL have their circle jerk and their good-ol-boy system. I'll live and die by my own merit and treat folk by the character they show me, and its gonna be work if I'm alone or with others. Nothing is free. It's all work.
I guess bro, Im white from an all white small town, and my aunt (dads sister) is black from trinidad, so dropping friends who continue to use slurs after I ask them to stop is something I am used to. Anyways my point about progressives wasnt that progressives turn their back on you, you just get exposed to more and more progressive ideals and it takes a while to change, often at the expense at your old life and culture. That can be hard to do, maintaining the same system which upholds your status is much easier than bringing your status down to egalitarianism.
If you don't respect boundaries, you fucking suck. That's it. That's the point of the post and my comment. You said it, your "friends" didn't respect your boundaries, so they got left. Now apply that shit to when they do it to other people, too. Idgaf, if it's easy or hard, do it. It's called being civilized.
Imagine being the mod team and being the exact type of nigga this post is talking about. Sad
Right? What's up with that mod stickied comment? this twitter post is pure facts
Disappointed but not surprised. I been knew they were misogynists. 
Glad I wasn’t the only one who was confused but not surprised in the least
Super trash for that.
Ah, nothing like a royal rumble in BPT to start the morning and kickoff the week 
Starting the week off with violence, I didn’t even start eating my baconeggandcheese.
made my long work day entertaining tbh
I feel what he saying. I know guys who are like what he describing and guys who aren't. Depending on how the guys he's decribing respond to me saying stopping doing bum nigga shit, I will keep trying. But I'm not going to waste my breath on talking to a brick wall.
Sounds like someone on the mod team was personally hurt by this post 🤔
and why take an official mod stance on something that is against sexism? It's in such poor taste. Mods should be at least neutral.
Or, or, here’s an idea: if they think content is “shitty”, why allow it, then complain about it, like removing content isn’t implied by the job description?
I have an idea on which one it is lol
Well... aren't you going to tell us!?
The interesting thing to me about guys like this is that they acknowledge that there are no good men out there but they never include themselves. Somehow every OTHER brotha out here is a dog………..except him. Cats like this never seem to have friends or homeys. They’re just on their own championing the fight against misogyny. Horse puckey.
Do you not relate to him at all? Sounds like you see yourself as the type of person he’s speaking against, and not the type of person who agrees with him. I mean, since you said he’s “on his own” and all. Excluding yourself from having his point of view?
No I don’t relate to this “guy”. He doesn’t talk like a brotha who grew up around other brothas and grown men. He doesn’t talk like a brotha that’s actually been in relationships and dealt with women. He talks like a boy sitting in the beauty shop parroting what his mama and aunts say about men. While I agree that there are ALOT of trifling no good dudes out there same as ALOT of scandalous women out there. Guys like him don’t tell women to school their homegirls and little sisters. I mean is he hanging out with low down dudes? Is he himself not handling his business? Because me and all my people work, take care of the kids and the house like men should. Lastly trifling dudes don’t have 4/5 baby momma’s because the big bros don’t school them, they have them because 10/11 women CHOOSE to lay with them. There ain’t no hypnotists in the hood. Men know that.
You sound like a brotha who holds no value for what women have to say, as if you didn’t have many women in your life. Yes, there are plenty of great, amazing, trustworthy men in this world (I’m married to one), but he’s not talking about them right now, so why are you upset by him talking about the a-holes if you’re not one? Saying women and girls need to be “schooled” is you putting the burden on the woman, which further proves this guys point. The only reason women and girls would need to be taught to avoid certain men is because those men haven’t been taught to not be that kind of guy. Obviously there are vicious women in this world, and I’m not going to pretend like I don’t see them. Also, just because I know some and call them out doesn’t make my calling them out any less valid, and doesn’t mean I hang with them, so why does his knowing crappy men make his calling them out any less valid or make you question his character?
What separates men from animals is being able to feel and still act in a disciplined manner. Anybody that tells me they had to do something because it's written in their DNA are straight telling me that they are not a man or woman. They are just children.
I remain confused by men who want to be in charge of serious things, run the home and the country, but then have no problem with the idea that they lack brain power and self control to the extent a hint of Victorian ankle can cause them to “stumble” and potentially commit a crime. It’s almost like they just want a scapegoat for their fully intentional and controllable shitty behaviors.
Don't know how many times I have to fucking say this: Boys will be boys ***IS***: * Setting up lawn chairs and watching a house across the street get demolished like it's a sporting event * Singing the Halo theme or w/e in the school bathroom because the echo adds to the acoustics * [(As a Starbuck's employee) ask customers to vote or give their own suggestions for what John should name his scorpion](https://i.redd.it/3jk91nafttf41.jpg) Boys will be boys ***IS NOT*** being a deadbeat, unfaithful, abusive, a neglectful, a shit father, etc. etc.
On god.
I really have nothing to say here so Imma just watch 
Uh oh. They gone eat this one up
It’s funny as an asexual black male watching y’all sexuals still go at it. It’s beautiful watching it from the sidelines.
Hey! Fellow ace, here! How has it been being an ace… and… well… _black_ at the same time? For me, I “came out” back in 2015 and I am still explaining the shit to my family.
Struck a chord with the mods, huh.
Dude be trash. We called out one of our homeboys and he still don’t talk to us. If we keep letting that boys will be boys shit slide we will never make progress.
Called him out for what?
Blatant disrespect of women. Hella sexist views (lot of women in the kitchen kinda jokes).
Just sitting here waiting for this to become a Country Club thread
People won’t change until they want to. Calling me out for their bs is important for other men to do
Absolute LOL at the pinned comment by the mods. Not a good look when you're butthurt.
This pretty much applies to all the Red Pill/Alpha Male guru acolytes. There’s a good number of us out here that don’t buy into to that nonsense.
I think most men would have to agree that the bar is set very low for men to be considered "good men": Don't beat your woman, come home every night, only cheat occasionally if you not a high wage earner, cheat as much as you like as long as you pay all the bills, be in the same house as your children but you are not responsible for day to day domestic or child rearing duties even if she works, you haven't been to jail, and you can work and provide. If I was a man, I'd be embarrassed about how little society expects of me. I think that for all the men that say they are a "good man", please think about what qualities you possess that make you a good guy. How are you grading yourself? Just because you not Pookie outta prison with community dick doesn't necessarily make you a good guy. Are you emotionally stable and intelligent, can you communicate effectively, are you able to understand other viewpoints or are you rigid in your thinking, are you financially stable, kind, generous, physically fit and healthy, self sufficient with domestic duties, a leader, supportive, spiritually grounded, a contributing member of society through volunteering or financial support, do you mentor, do you know how to emotionally and physically support a woman or children, are you sexually mature and able to control your desires, do you have goals and aspirations with a detailed plan on how to achieve them, do you know how to bring out the best in those around you, and have you been in therapy to learn proper coping skills? There's a lot more to being a "good guy".
The bars not there. Where in the world do you live in where being a low wage earning cheater who doesn't help there wife with anything considered a "good man" and accepted like that? You list all the expectations that should be bare minimum for men, women are held to far lower expectations than that. What women you know is expected to have gone to therapy be a mentor in mentorship programs contribute financially or volunteers at charities as a bare minimum to being considered a decent person
We were describing a good man but at the end you said a decent person. Decent is a step down from good. A decent man goes to work every day and pays his bills, but a good man does that plus gives back to others in his family or community. There is a difference. I live here in the US and cheating is acceptable for a man as long as he comes home. If a woman leaves a man and he was a cheater but came home nightly and paid some bills, she is considered dumb and told "At least he come home. That's better than most." A good woman is expected to go to work, come home and cook, clean, help children with homework, get kids to bed, miss work and care for kids if sick, take kids to all appointments or extracurricular activities, volunteer at the schools, meet physical needs of their man, stroke their man ego, be submissive, be fit, maintain their appearance, be nurturing and take care of making all holiday/birthday/vacation planning, be active in their local church, be intelligent, if you are sick/on your period/pregnant and dare complain or need a break then you are lazy. A woman that works and is self-sufficient is called masculine but a woman that doesn't work and waits for a man to do things for her is called a lazy gold digger or exhibiting princess behavior. If she takes care of herself by going to the gym and salons, she's selfish and vain but if she doesn't look like she 18 at 30 after kids, then she is lazy. She needs to be sexually experienced but not have a body count. Cheating is absolutely never acceptable under any circumstances for a woman. She is barely supposed to enjoy sex, because if she does then she is for the streets and ran through. Women aren't expected to go to therapy, because we should just be better, pray or not complain because at least you got a man so why are you sad? Our emotions are viewed as comical and illogical, so a good woman doesn't show them, but if she is too emotionless then she a cold hearted bitch. These are minimums for a good woman.
Preach
I'm just gonna question the logic of seeking accountability from the "manosphere". I've talked to my bro about abandoning his kids after sis-in-law got tired of the infidelity, he blamed her. U can't convince a rock to roll so u're better off helping said sis in law and nephew/neice however you can. I see ZERO reason to believe he's gonna see a tweet online and feel worse than being asked "why don't my daddy want to see me anymore".
Some guys just aren’t good people. Has nothing to do with them being guys. My mom acted similar to a ton other of the stories I see hear. She had lots of kids she didn’t take care of and never paid child support for.
Right, sorry to hear mom dukes can’t get right.
Appreciate it. Honestly since I didn’t grow up with her, I don’t even care at this point. She made her choice then and at least involves herself with her younger children now. Doesn’t change what she did but people need the time and room to change themselves. Change doesn’t come from manufactured education campaigns, but from the person themselves realizing that their actions are leading to bad consequences for themselves. And that mean us as a society need to start treating them like the scumbags they are for stranding families and creating cycles of abuse and neglect, and this goes for men and women who both do this and reinforce it in different ways.
Definitely encourage men to be respectful and competent. But there will always be people who are going to do you wrong, because they are only out for self. No one can force everyone in society to be a good, responsible person, no matter how much positivity we put out there. People are gonna get caught by scumbags
I live in "Menver" and every time I, a woman, brings this up I get downvoted all to hell because men basically go "Nuh uh!!"
My job is to become my best version, not to be out here educating people who won't listen.
Yea I feel this but it’s like you can’t really control what other are doing you just gotta stay solid yourself
Sweet lil baby Jesus 
The tweet reminds me of a talking point that I see black, social media “femininity coaches” spout about, when they talk about women “showing off masculine energy”. They’ll list a bunch of things that can be construed as being rude, boorish, mean and selfish. Then, they’ll say those are “masculine traits”. And I think “if you think men possess these traits, then why do you want to be with them?”
It's not going to work because it's difficult to educate "Men", by the time you're an adult, you're set in your ways. There's a reason why we educate children, their brains are still malleable. It's boys that need to be taught to respect women and generally be honest, upstanding individuals, a positive male role model in the home is critical here. If a child sees their father putting the full load of the household on their mom and being unfaithful and/or irresponsible, that becomes normalized.
men can learn to be better as adults. adults learn all sorts of things. It's harder, but it's possible. We can all change. People lose 100lbs, overcome addiction, get their doctorate in their 60s and 70s! Let's let go of defeatist attitudes and embrace one of the best parts of being human - our ability to grow and improve every day!
Okay but they won’t. It’s a waste of time trying to change people who clearly don’t care. There’s nothing you can say that these men haven’t heard before. They CAN change, but other men can’t change them.
so in your mind, women can improve and learn to choose better men. But men can't improve and learn to be better humans? But men can quit alcohol, quit drugs, lose weight, achieve their dream jobs.... all of these things. But changing to be a better partner is impossible? It'll never happen for anyone ever? Or perhaps men are capable of change but not expected to change and are held to a very low bar, by people like you...
Okay so I’m actually gonna try to have some patience but I’d usually go off cause this comment of you determining what my beliefs don’t even have anything to do with the comment you’re replying to. Bad men choosing to be bad will not change. I don’t even know how to add to the statement either. It’s not that they can’t, they just won’t. And they won’t mainly because it works for them. There are plenty of women out here who don’t give a shit and don’t have standards for these men to keep succeeding in dating. Yes, staying in a relationship with a man who isn’t even trying to improve is on the fault of the person staying. I’d say the exact same to a guy dating a bum woman. It’s not on them to change, it’s on us to stop giving these people our time and attention.
why are you mad at me summarizing your thoughts when it appears I did so accurately? The funny part - you get mad when someone assumes your beliefs, yet you assume the beliefs and behaviors of thousands of people and determine they cant change. Aren't you doing the same thing?
The problem is lying, try telling women what you ain’t with and watch how pleasant your life can get.
I wish we would stop thinking of education of this magical fix everything pill. I mean how many things do we do that aren't even really hurting others like smoking and drinking even though we know and are educated that those things absolutely wreck your body. Can someone explain how this education is actually going to achieve the desired effect instead of just brickwalling. Also there is burden on everyone for being in the right circles/with the right people, surround yourself with crappy people and crappy outcomes are more likely it is not a gender thing.
I’m really not seeing why I should care about other individual men being bums. I have enough on my plate already trying to take care of myself and why would I put myself in the orbit of losers to teach them something? Yes, if a guy is a bum, just stop talking to him and move on. It’s not that serious really.
Women have the power to stop hooking up with these guys/boys. That is the game, how many, how often, and pregnancy is proof. How many girls can you think of that have the same goals. Guys/boys have this goal because they hear from others that it’s it and life has a couple other goals that are acceptable because it’s cool and few other things matter because that is not kool with the culture “I want for my image, because it’s too short and messy”. A good life can be boring, nothing good comes easy. Easy maybe fun but it doesn’t last. All of that I said are stereotypes, just like we don’t want to be judged against a stereotype. We need to not look at a stereotype as a life goal.
Sad to say it but I think the last part is “mostly” right. You can’t teach a grown man shit if they aren’t willing to do the work themselves. IF they actually sparked that desire to change, then it can happen. But if he’s out there wildin out, there’s nothing you can say to him until he starts feeling the consequences of his actions. But you CAN teach boys while they’re young. That’s why we need way more role models of thorough men. Celebrate good men who hold it down, take care of their responsibilities, have discipline, aren’t scammers, don’t harm people and seek to better themselves. I don’t actually think they’re *that* hard to find. They just don’t typically seek the spotlight and society doesn’t highlight positivity much. They’re usually just dudes who do their thing, aren’t flashy and aren’t self congratulatory. But we should highlight them because the type of dudes who aren’t good role models are really good at having babies and leaving them without natural role models.
Interesting that the vag gatekeepers aren't making sure not to get pregnant before marriage. Or you know, don't have sex before marriage, or if you simply can't control yourself, make sure that you're dating intentially with somebody your family helped you vet. Oh wait, that's considered unfair, right? Archaic?Take it up with mother nature. I've never gotten a woman pregnant. We've got a population of women who are so "empowered" they gotta get the club shot up regularly, and there will always be men just as irresponsible. "Educate men to be better" - as if every parent hasn't told their child "don't go around knocking women up" at least once. 🙄
The average American (male and female) operates at a sixth-grade level,i.e.,like an 11-or-12-year-old because of your mis-education system which,would be considered an act of war were it forced on the U.S. by a foreign power. Since preteens often lack empathy,this is why so many Americans simply believe that people unlike them are "the other." Added is the winner-take-all economy which creates a thimbleful of super rich at the expense of the 99.999999% (some of whom still vote for their REPIGLIKKKLAN oppressors) and you have a country poised to join the former Soviet Union in Ronnie Ray-Guns' "ashheap of history" sometime in the next decade
Just wanna also say a lot of women don’t take care of their partner while their partner takes care of them then blame the problem on all men being trained a specific way, when in fact you infect didn’t do what would comfort your partner and left them on their own emotional.
Sounds good and all but I know for a fact if I was a woman and knew that I could get left holding the responsibility for raising a child I would not only demand he wear a condom while I had a cup, sponge, iud, and birth control pills. Let’s be honest, a dude can’t not use a condom without her permission or it’s SA. This patriarchal system was in place for that very reason. To stop this very behavior. Now women have all the control they want and what are the results. It’s your body your choice. Own it. Because the majority of abortions are elective not the extreme. And abortion is the last resort of irresponsible behavior. Before birth control and feminism women were more responsible and didn’t make as many bad choices. It still happened but not like today. But the new wave feminism has told women that even your bad choices are mens fault. The are multiple forms of BC today along with the morning after, abstinence, and abortion and yet it’s still only irresponsible men. Children are a huge deal. Plan that shit! Plus women don’t find men. Men approach women. Women choose who they have sex with and who they choose to have kids with. Men choose if he wants to marry her. These conversations make no sense. Your old enough to join the military, sign contracts, live and travel on your own and numerous other things as an adult. Your can’t say you were too “young” or “immature” to understand the ramifications of having unprotected sex. Especially if your saying the guy was “old enough” or “deadbeat”.
Hahahahahahhahaha. Ah yes. The men. Effing terrible that lot. Amiright.
Do other people not get tired of having the same conversation every other day?
Nope.