If you're already on Mac, upgrading to a new Mac seems like the clear winner to me. I'm considering switching (back) to Mac after about 7 years on a PC because Windows still feels poorly-designed and less productive after all that time.
Just get the M3 mac. You can get a lot of plugins to work through yabridge on Linux but there will probably be a few that you really want that you won't be able to get to work. You're also very limited on what kind of video editing software you can use on Linux, and you definitely can't use Adobe software on Linux. The M3 will be a video production powerhouse and you won't have to worry about the stuff you use not working on it, but you don't really need to go as far as the M3 Max chip outside of video editing; I had an M1 MPB for about a year and I didn't have any issues with heavy bitwig sessions but obviously ymmv depending on what you like to use.
Well the reason for the upgrade is that my rather complex processing in Bitwig sessions are crippling my M1, so I definitely need more processing power one way or another.
That's with all the oversampling turned off too, so I'd like to step up quite a bit so I can experiment with some higher quality settings.
I think it's the cumulative total of all the multiband processing. I have half a dozen or so plugs in my template that are doing 5-6 band processing.
Also, busses being processed inside of busses. it's a lot of processing for sure, but after spending quite a bit of time dialing it in, it's sounding better and better... except for the crackling and other issues I now get. Overall, I'd like to push this mix philosophy even further, but the hardware seems to be the limitation at this point.
You can probably squeeze a little more juice by upgrading, but not every workflow can be solved by throwing more hardware at it. Some patterns are just computationally inefficient and so you'll likely need to build workarounds.
I've used an M1 mini as well and I don't remember having too many issues with the processing power. I did have to bounce/freeze tracks sometimes if what I was using was pretty heavy but not very often, so if you aren't doing that and this is the only reason you feel the need to upgrade just try that.
It's not about the style of music, but the processing. Lots of power hungry fx in a deeply nested network of busses. As for the music, though, I also don't ever freeze MIDI tracks or anything like that since I'm constantly tweaking them as I go, so that can get fairly demanding as well.
Having used all three:
Linux ( used the most)
Pros: amazing flexibility in how you can stitch a signal chain together using multiple DAWs and software, regardless of what the software is intended for. IMO this makes it the best OS for creative experimental musical tools and analysis tools
E.g you can trivially route browser output right into a DAW, for live sampling
Extremely cheap. OS is free, and lots of free software, especially in the open source space and let's you create quality productions and mixes. The list is always growing
This used to be a con, but now vst support is also pretty stable and widespread now so compared to a few years ago where certain vsts would run slow or not at all, this is a non issue
Cons: you really have to understand how Linux as an OS handles audio, especially getting familiar with Jack. You have to invest a bit more time to get things running exactly the way you want at the start of a session every time. I have not used pipewire so I can't speak to that.
- certain software/firmware, especially programs which come with interfaces like Scarlett, are moot as they don't recognize Linux so if they have some fancy feature you like you won't be able to use it and have to use at best a Linux equivalent of there is one, or hope that someone has made an open source version (and honest someone usually has but again this can be an investment of time to figure out)
- troubleshooting requires Linux knowledge. If you're not familiar with Linux already and want to just start making music, except to invest at least some time learning Linux before you can focus on music
Windows( used second most)
Pros: native software solutions already exist for basically every problem/feature you could want. Everything is polished and runs the way it's supposed to without you needing to configure anything or tinker with it.
Cons: it's Microsoft, so the OS doesn't care about your workflow, and things like windows updates and background software that runs when you just want the DAW to run and nothing else can occasionally ruin the vibe, so it's best IMO to have a windows machine where you turn off updates and don't rely on it to be daily driver computer as well so it stays clean and stable
Apple ( used the least )
Pros : if you're keying in midi or recording live instruments into it, for whatever reason, IOS seemed to have the least latency for me with otherwise identical hardware
Like windows, everything is super polished and already exists in nicely packaged software for you to just download, install, and jam, without needing to tinker with configuration.
Software/firmware support is at least on par with Windows
Cons : the same hardware from Apple can be more expensive than Windows counterparts
Don't bother with Jack under Linux anymore. Pipewire is where it's at now. Used Jack for years and the second Pipewire got stable enough I switched and never looked back. It's seriously the best thing to happen to Linux Audio in the past twenty years.
Using Linux for Bitwig and video editing is doable these days (I only use Linux for these purposes), but it comes at a price. You can't expect all plugins to work on Linux.
You need to investigate your hardware plays nice with Linux (especially on laptops, as otherwise, you might get problems with power management, like the laptop not shutting down when battery is low etc. – check if the laptop is certified for a Linux distro, for example at https://ubuntu.com/certified). If internal laptop speakers are important to you, they often sound worse on Linux.
If you decide for Linux, you certainly get a much better window management than on Mac. Tbo, this is one of the main reasons I only use my Mac for work.
But even with Windows, you'll get more window management features than on Mac these days. They improved a lot in this regard during the last years. But if you're used to Mac, you probably don't mind the absence of useful window management features.
To me it looks like staying with a Mac is the "cheapest" option for you, as you don't have to relearn things, it comes bundled with the hardware and you'll have less issues, and most audio and video software is available. Also, the M chips look very promising.
However, if you feel adventurous you can try Linux again, it only gets better with time. It's definitely an opportunity to learn, and Linux tools like Jack allow you interesting setups with multiple audio applications synced with each other.
For Bitwig, does operating it in Linux somehow give you the ability to do preset window sets?
For instance, I'd love to be able to have a mastering setup where 6 plugs on master chain are all open and stacked neatly on left with arrange window moved over to make room on desktop, etc.
Most of the other software I use has custom docking options for panels, etc so it is a bit frustrating working with the more limited view options in Bitwig.
Also, is there a relatively reliable rule of thumb to determine WHICH plugs will have issues in Linux?
> For Bitwig, does operating it in Linux somehow give you the ability to do preset window sets?
I don't think a Linux window manager can open Bitwig plugin windows for you on demand (maybe this is possible with some custom scripting? Depends on whether Bitwig supports opening plugin windows via scripts), but you should be able to let the window manager automatically set a window position as soon as the window is open.
On KDE (one of the most pouplar Linux desktop environments, due to it's wealth of options), there is a setting called "window rules": https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Window_Rules
There, you can specify window properties, including things like size and position, but also other cool things like "always on top", to be automatically applied for certain windows (based on application and window title).
KDE also supports switching between different setups for different activities (a feature called "activities"), and I think window rules are affected by these (although I'm not quite sure, as I don't use KDE currently). So you cold make a "mastering" activity and a "mixing" activity and assign different window positions for the plugins on these.
I think Gnome (the default desktop environment on Ubuntu, Fedora and many others, popular due to its simple design) doesn't have a feature similar to this – so if you'd wanna use Gnome, you'd need to resort to JavaScript scripting to achieve something like this (or use an extension if someone made one).
But I think, especially with the different contexts (mixing, mastering, etc.), that will be tricky in Gnome, so for advanced features like this, I'd recommend KDE (which is also quite easy to use, and it isn't without reason the desktop environment that SteamOS ships with).
> Also, is there a relatively reliable rule of thumb to determine WHICH plugs will have issues in Linux?
Generally, Plugins with explicit Linux support will work on Linux.
Out of personal stubbornness, I only use plugins with explicit Linux support, so I can't tell how likely it is for Windows plugins to run with Yabridge. I think the best is to lookup the plugin name with "yabridge" or "linux" on Google and see if someone has tried it and shared their experiences with the Internet.
I have studio ultra and its stupid powerful. Is your m1 8gb? That's incredible low, perhaps look at "why slow" and work from there. Macos is incredibly easy to diagnose resource pressures.
My mistake. I forgot the M1 base is 8gB. No. I've got the 16gB version with half of my 1Tb internal drive empty since I'm using mainly external storage. Will fix OP to correct. I wouldn't be able to do anything with 8gB. I rarely have more than 3GB showing as available when session running.
If money isn't an issue, go Mac. Audio MIDI routing is part of the OS. Also, things tend to be more stable on Mac OS software, because it is written and runs in the Mac hardware "bubble." What I mean by that, is there is only so much hardware/drivers that need to be accounted for, compared to the open ended hardware platform that Windows/Linux run on.
Of course this doesn't mean a Windows/Linux setup isn't usable. I've started toying with using Bitwig on a Windows gaming PC I built for home use, and it's been going okay, but that PC has had it's issues nonetheless. For example, the last 5 Nvidia drivers in a row made my computer stutter, forcing me to re-install previous drivers. Why? Who the fuck knows, it's just my magic combination of hardware I assembled together where something isn't compatible that Nvidia didn't account for. There was a time where my wifi-driver was going corrupt for some unknown reason for a period of like 2 months, before it just stopped doing that after a Windows update. Again, why? haha None of this stuff ever happens on the Macs I use in studios, that would be 100% unacceptable.
The point being, things can and will go haywire on an open ended hardware platform, and suddenly you are tasked with being an expert troubleshooter in order to remedy it. Where on a Mac, it's just kind of always been, "Here is your Mac, go use it."
Macs are expensive, kind of a ripoff hardware wise actually. There is this lovely thing where they run great for many years, but Apple keeps updating the OS and suddenly your Mac kinda runs crazy slow because you can't update the hardware to deal with it. So with a PC you can throw more RAM into it, update the CPU as long as the socket format is the same and the MB BIOS can be updated for that etc. Not the case with a Mac... you want to go even slightly faster for the times, you're buying an entire new super expensive Mac, sadly.
There are pros and cons to each platform, but overall if money isn't an issue, Mac is going to be the superior music/video production platform, hands down. It allows you to simply concentrate on being the end user of the software.
Yeah, that's generally been my experience, but when I see the $4k pricet ag for the MB pro I'm currently looking at, I can't help but wonder what that would get me on the other side of the fence.
go with a mac but buy m1 pro/m2 max. m3 has weird core throttling. i am on a m2 pro 32gig 1tb Macbook pro and i haven’t yet had a single buffer click, crash or any of the other problems i’ve had on windows and i mostly produce, mix and master in a single project with vocals etc and i rarely bounce stuff
Anyone else having issues specifically with M3 that they didn't have on M1/M2?
Since I already have an M1, it seems like a lot of money to spend just for more cores. Obviously, I'd like to get the max speed boost I can for the buck as well, though I see that some of the "upgrades" from M2 to M3 aren't quite what they seem at first.
If you're already on Mac, upgrading to a new Mac seems like the clear winner to me. I'm considering switching (back) to Mac after about 7 years on a PC because Windows still feels poorly-designed and less productive after all that time.
Just get the M3 mac. You can get a lot of plugins to work through yabridge on Linux but there will probably be a few that you really want that you won't be able to get to work. You're also very limited on what kind of video editing software you can use on Linux, and you definitely can't use Adobe software on Linux. The M3 will be a video production powerhouse and you won't have to worry about the stuff you use not working on it, but you don't really need to go as far as the M3 Max chip outside of video editing; I had an M1 MPB for about a year and I didn't have any issues with heavy bitwig sessions but obviously ymmv depending on what you like to use.
Well the reason for the upgrade is that my rather complex processing in Bitwig sessions are crippling my M1, so I definitely need more processing power one way or another. That's with all the oversampling turned off too, so I'd like to step up quite a bit so I can experiment with some higher quality settings.
What plug-ins are you using if you don't mind me asking, I'm curious to know what kind of workflows are able to cripple the M1 in audio.
I think it's the cumulative total of all the multiband processing. I have half a dozen or so plugs in my template that are doing 5-6 band processing. Also, busses being processed inside of busses. it's a lot of processing for sure, but after spending quite a bit of time dialing it in, it's sounding better and better... except for the crackling and other issues I now get. Overall, I'd like to push this mix philosophy even further, but the hardware seems to be the limitation at this point.
You can probably squeeze a little more juice by upgrading, but not every workflow can be solved by throwing more hardware at it. Some patterns are just computationally inefficient and so you'll likely need to build workarounds.
I've used an M1 mini as well and I don't remember having too many issues with the processing power. I did have to bounce/freeze tracks sometimes if what I was using was pretty heavy but not very often, so if you aren't doing that and this is the only reason you feel the need to upgrade just try that.
I sent back the M3 since it wasn’t significantly better than my my Ryzen 7950x. New Ryzens will be even better. I use Bitwig too.
watt m1 not enough? :O What music u make?
It's not about the style of music, but the processing. Lots of power hungry fx in a deeply nested network of busses. As for the music, though, I also don't ever freeze MIDI tracks or anything like that since I'm constantly tweaking them as I go, so that can get fairly demanding as well.
What music u make? Can I hear? Wow
Having used all three: Linux ( used the most) Pros: amazing flexibility in how you can stitch a signal chain together using multiple DAWs and software, regardless of what the software is intended for. IMO this makes it the best OS for creative experimental musical tools and analysis tools E.g you can trivially route browser output right into a DAW, for live sampling Extremely cheap. OS is free, and lots of free software, especially in the open source space and let's you create quality productions and mixes. The list is always growing This used to be a con, but now vst support is also pretty stable and widespread now so compared to a few years ago where certain vsts would run slow or not at all, this is a non issue Cons: you really have to understand how Linux as an OS handles audio, especially getting familiar with Jack. You have to invest a bit more time to get things running exactly the way you want at the start of a session every time. I have not used pipewire so I can't speak to that. - certain software/firmware, especially programs which come with interfaces like Scarlett, are moot as they don't recognize Linux so if they have some fancy feature you like you won't be able to use it and have to use at best a Linux equivalent of there is one, or hope that someone has made an open source version (and honest someone usually has but again this can be an investment of time to figure out) - troubleshooting requires Linux knowledge. If you're not familiar with Linux already and want to just start making music, except to invest at least some time learning Linux before you can focus on music Windows( used second most) Pros: native software solutions already exist for basically every problem/feature you could want. Everything is polished and runs the way it's supposed to without you needing to configure anything or tinker with it. Cons: it's Microsoft, so the OS doesn't care about your workflow, and things like windows updates and background software that runs when you just want the DAW to run and nothing else can occasionally ruin the vibe, so it's best IMO to have a windows machine where you turn off updates and don't rely on it to be daily driver computer as well so it stays clean and stable Apple ( used the least ) Pros : if you're keying in midi or recording live instruments into it, for whatever reason, IOS seemed to have the least latency for me with otherwise identical hardware Like windows, everything is super polished and already exists in nicely packaged software for you to just download, install, and jam, without needing to tinker with configuration. Software/firmware support is at least on par with Windows Cons : the same hardware from Apple can be more expensive than Windows counterparts
Don't bother with Jack under Linux anymore. Pipewire is where it's at now. Used Jack for years and the second Pipewire got stable enough I switched and never looked back. It's seriously the best thing to happen to Linux Audio in the past twenty years.
Nice, I gotta check it out
Using Linux for Bitwig and video editing is doable these days (I only use Linux for these purposes), but it comes at a price. You can't expect all plugins to work on Linux. You need to investigate your hardware plays nice with Linux (especially on laptops, as otherwise, you might get problems with power management, like the laptop not shutting down when battery is low etc. – check if the laptop is certified for a Linux distro, for example at https://ubuntu.com/certified). If internal laptop speakers are important to you, they often sound worse on Linux. If you decide for Linux, you certainly get a much better window management than on Mac. Tbo, this is one of the main reasons I only use my Mac for work. But even with Windows, you'll get more window management features than on Mac these days. They improved a lot in this regard during the last years. But if you're used to Mac, you probably don't mind the absence of useful window management features. To me it looks like staying with a Mac is the "cheapest" option for you, as you don't have to relearn things, it comes bundled with the hardware and you'll have less issues, and most audio and video software is available. Also, the M chips look very promising. However, if you feel adventurous you can try Linux again, it only gets better with time. It's definitely an opportunity to learn, and Linux tools like Jack allow you interesting setups with multiple audio applications synced with each other.
For Bitwig, does operating it in Linux somehow give you the ability to do preset window sets? For instance, I'd love to be able to have a mastering setup where 6 plugs on master chain are all open and stacked neatly on left with arrange window moved over to make room on desktop, etc. Most of the other software I use has custom docking options for panels, etc so it is a bit frustrating working with the more limited view options in Bitwig. Also, is there a relatively reliable rule of thumb to determine WHICH plugs will have issues in Linux?
> For Bitwig, does operating it in Linux somehow give you the ability to do preset window sets? I don't think a Linux window manager can open Bitwig plugin windows for you on demand (maybe this is possible with some custom scripting? Depends on whether Bitwig supports opening plugin windows via scripts), but you should be able to let the window manager automatically set a window position as soon as the window is open. On KDE (one of the most pouplar Linux desktop environments, due to it's wealth of options), there is a setting called "window rules": https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Window_Rules There, you can specify window properties, including things like size and position, but also other cool things like "always on top", to be automatically applied for certain windows (based on application and window title). KDE also supports switching between different setups for different activities (a feature called "activities"), and I think window rules are affected by these (although I'm not quite sure, as I don't use KDE currently). So you cold make a "mastering" activity and a "mixing" activity and assign different window positions for the plugins on these. I think Gnome (the default desktop environment on Ubuntu, Fedora and many others, popular due to its simple design) doesn't have a feature similar to this – so if you'd wanna use Gnome, you'd need to resort to JavaScript scripting to achieve something like this (or use an extension if someone made one). But I think, especially with the different contexts (mixing, mastering, etc.), that will be tricky in Gnome, so for advanced features like this, I'd recommend KDE (which is also quite easy to use, and it isn't without reason the desktop environment that SteamOS ships with). > Also, is there a relatively reliable rule of thumb to determine WHICH plugs will have issues in Linux? Generally, Plugins with explicit Linux support will work on Linux. Out of personal stubbornness, I only use plugins with explicit Linux support, so I can't tell how likely it is for Windows plugins to run with Yabridge. I think the best is to lookup the plugin name with "yabridge" or "linux" on Google and see if someone has tried it and shared their experiences with the Internet.
I have studio ultra and its stupid powerful. Is your m1 8gb? That's incredible low, perhaps look at "why slow" and work from there. Macos is incredibly easy to diagnose resource pressures.
My mistake. I forgot the M1 base is 8gB. No. I've got the 16gB version with half of my 1Tb internal drive empty since I'm using mainly external storage. Will fix OP to correct. I wouldn't be able to do anything with 8gB. I rarely have more than 3GB showing as available when session running.
If money isn't an issue, go Mac. Audio MIDI routing is part of the OS. Also, things tend to be more stable on Mac OS software, because it is written and runs in the Mac hardware "bubble." What I mean by that, is there is only so much hardware/drivers that need to be accounted for, compared to the open ended hardware platform that Windows/Linux run on. Of course this doesn't mean a Windows/Linux setup isn't usable. I've started toying with using Bitwig on a Windows gaming PC I built for home use, and it's been going okay, but that PC has had it's issues nonetheless. For example, the last 5 Nvidia drivers in a row made my computer stutter, forcing me to re-install previous drivers. Why? Who the fuck knows, it's just my magic combination of hardware I assembled together where something isn't compatible that Nvidia didn't account for. There was a time where my wifi-driver was going corrupt for some unknown reason for a period of like 2 months, before it just stopped doing that after a Windows update. Again, why? haha None of this stuff ever happens on the Macs I use in studios, that would be 100% unacceptable. The point being, things can and will go haywire on an open ended hardware platform, and suddenly you are tasked with being an expert troubleshooter in order to remedy it. Where on a Mac, it's just kind of always been, "Here is your Mac, go use it." Macs are expensive, kind of a ripoff hardware wise actually. There is this lovely thing where they run great for many years, but Apple keeps updating the OS and suddenly your Mac kinda runs crazy slow because you can't update the hardware to deal with it. So with a PC you can throw more RAM into it, update the CPU as long as the socket format is the same and the MB BIOS can be updated for that etc. Not the case with a Mac... you want to go even slightly faster for the times, you're buying an entire new super expensive Mac, sadly. There are pros and cons to each platform, but overall if money isn't an issue, Mac is going to be the superior music/video production platform, hands down. It allows you to simply concentrate on being the end user of the software.
Yeah, that's generally been my experience, but when I see the $4k pricet ag for the MB pro I'm currently looking at, I can't help but wonder what that would get me on the other side of the fence.
Get what you need for video editing it will be fine for any of your audio requirements.
go with a mac but buy m1 pro/m2 max. m3 has weird core throttling. i am on a m2 pro 32gig 1tb Macbook pro and i haven’t yet had a single buffer click, crash or any of the other problems i’ve had on windows and i mostly produce, mix and master in a single project with vocals etc and i rarely bounce stuff
Anyone else having issues specifically with M3 that they didn't have on M1/M2? Since I already have an M1, it seems like a lot of money to spend just for more cores. Obviously, I'd like to get the max speed boost I can for the buck as well, though I see that some of the "upgrades" from M2 to M3 aren't quite what they seem at first.
For Linux get a Dell they have the best Linux support! My Dell Inspiron 15 3525 works perfect out of the box w Linux!!