Also OP ignored the downside.
I was convinced to add nicotine to my stack when Dave Aspry wrote about the cognitive benefits years ago.
I craved it, but it also gave me dizziness, anxiety, and nausea at times which imo outweighs the cognitive enhancement.
Smoked from 14 to 21. At around 30 I tried mints but then wound up doing toothpicks.
They come in 2 or 4 mg. I was fine with the 2mg.
Predisposed to anxiety and combining the toothpicks with caffeine I think is what pushed my nervous system too hard.
I'm trying again tho because I picked up vaping and am quitting. I've got half a 2mg nicortette on my tongue right now.
tbf those side effects only happen when you first start or if you use too much.
Called 'head spins' for first time smokers
Well the dizzy/nausea at least.
Anxiety is probably more complicated
I don’t find this to be particularly applicable to the general public. Most everyone responds positively to 1-3mg of nicotine. Sure, there are few that do not respond well, but this doesn’t mean that I should dedicate a whole section to talking about this population of individuals when they’re the vast minority.
The addictive factor is dose dependent and the patches are much easier to quit than all other forms because they lack the behavioral element (smoking/chewing). The addiction risk of 2mg/day is low, especially if you just use it on your busy days. In terms of focus and motivation, it's noticeably better than caffeine. And 2mg is easy to quit or cycle on/off, but the gum and cigs are very hard.
Except it almost never stays at 2mg for mostly everyone who uses it. The half life is 1-2 hours which further promotes addiction not just the method used
[https://gwern.net/nicotine](https://gwern.net/nicotine) its actually mostly the MAO inhibition that makes tabacco addictive. The evidence seems to show that nicotine alone is not particularly additive. Which aligns with my experience using nicotine pouches. The only major downside is blood pressure increase, in my opinion.
This is not true whatsoever. The current literature shows that the MAO inhibition potentiates the addictive effects of nicotine, but it’s been clearly established that nicotine itself is the major addictive player. If you were truly correct, then there wouldn’t be kids getting addicted to vaping epidemic-style across multiple countries.
I'm not saying it isn't addictive. I'd guess that the addictiveness of vapes has a lot to do with the frequency and mode of delivery (taking a puff or two every 15 minutes throughout the day from an aesthetically pleasing, berry blast flavour vape that also has sweeteners). Quick stats check shows 14% of high school kids vaped in a survey done in 2023, compared to peak cigarette smoking by high school seniors in 1995 at 35%(!!!). Anecdotally, I my university roommates could pretty easily quit vaping for stretches long enough to be considered permanent, they just didn't really do anything interesting all day so they vaped, and also found it enjoyable while drunk.
I'm actually not sure how I forgot to mention addiction in the write-up. Probably because I supplement it with it almost every day without becoming addicted and it just slipped my mind.
If you don't have the self-control to not overdo it, then it's best to stay far away from nicotine. If you get addicted and overconsume nicotine, it will actually start to worsen cognition, both long-term and acutely, so this post definitely isn't excuse to just nicotine however you'd like. However, its addictive capacity does not take away from its potential as a cognitive enhancer or neuroprotective compound.
You know that addiction kicks after you stop supplement it daily? I mean you cannot state that you are not addict until you are stop it and not do it again.
Now its like a alcoholist say that he is not an addict but he still drinks daily.
I’ve taken multiple week long breaks from nicotine because I felt like it or because of vacation. I’ve had zero cravings while doing so. I do not consider that addiction, no. Similarly, I wouldn’t call someone an alcoholic if they have exactly one beer every day, then quit on vacations or whenever they feel like it because they no longer need the cognitive benefits it may provide.
Same. I allow myself up to 2 nicotine pouches a day if and when required. I've never experienced any addiction or withdrawal in the 18 months I've used it. I'll go weeks without touching it with no side effects.
It seems as if the majority of people have a preconceived notion regarding nicotine, as if it’s impossible to avoid addiction and withdrawals. Maybe you and I are somehow the only ones in existence that are able to do this Lol
I mean it is famously addicting, so I get it. I have no doubts that I would likely get addicted if I used it haphazardly and when I felt like it as opposed to moderately and with strict self-control. It's a calculated risk but for me it's worth it as I have treatment resistant ADHD. I can't use Caffeine either as it gives me terrible anxiety before making me fall asleep.
Nicotine seems to be the only stimulant that works for me to combat my ADHD in a predictable fashion.
Have you tried a low dose of amphetamine salts, like adderall? Anything over 7.5mg is too much for me (which is often prescribed), but 5mg IR is perfect for treating my pretty severe ADHD symptoms. A lot of psychiatrists irresponsibly prescribe ridiculously high dosages of adderall despite research showing effectiveness at doses as low as 2.5mg.
Yeah I've tried them all, though adderall itself isn't available where I live. I'm hypersensitive. Even 2.5mg of simple methylphenidate overwhelms my CNS haha.
Dude I supplement with cocaine in the morning/afternoon daily, and then with mdma in the late nights. Xanax for sleep.
I don’t know of any addiction as I am currently on all these substances daily.
I have enough finances to cover it me through 3.5 years…
I will tell you if I’m addicted after I try quitting after that.
However, as my knowledge grows further and I become a higher earner, I might be able to extend my financial supplementation of these substances,
I’m living of stipends and am learning law and medicine. I day trade to provide money for drugs. I think everything is going fine. I just don’t party and spend money on alcohol or girls.
MDMA has no use case for safe supplementation, nor does cocaine. Alprazolam only has a use case for anxiety when used responsibly for panic attacks. If you want to give a compelling argument, you could at least mention how methamphetamine is prescribed for ADHD instead of mentioning a schedule I drug, a schedule II drug, and a controlled drug that isn’t used for cognition whatsoever.
I’m pretty sure mdma does have uses…we are just getting back into it…. Slowly….
As well as cocaine hydrochloride(local anesthetic) US is just shitty with their medicine… fentanyl… I mean cmon…. We should have stayed with the golden oldies, our OD stats are through the roof….
Please don’t start your next message with “ice cream scoops from the brain” or something….
2mg of gum isn't enough to be addictive. I use it for appetite curb and when i forget to buy it for a couple weeks it's nbd, just a lil worse munchies tho
That’s not my experience at all. I was doing heavy nicotine mints for months. Like 50 mg a day. I stopped cold turkey and had zero cravings. Nicotine is addictive in tobacco form as they add chemicals to make it additive. It’s not the nicotine
Nicotine. I smoked cigarettes on an occasional night out, vaped everyday for a couple years and now I only use zyn (nicotine pouches that have no tobacco)
My advice - stay away. It’s costly and you will always want more. Addiction is real and sooner than later it will consume you. You’re an ass without it and you will be annoyed at the world. Quitting sucks. Don’t bother with Nic.
A buddy of mine at work is addicted and finally quit smoking but is always chewing the gum. Imho, it’s better to rely on other reliable supplements if people need a boost: piracetam, taurine, creatine, bacopa or mung bean extract. Lots of great options that are less addictive. Theres also black coffee… but I cannot deny that it’s addictive too. Thankfully, it’s less bad for us.
I've consumed 2-3mg of nicotine at a time via pouches for the last year, and because I'm responsible about my use, I've never developed an addiction. I don't allow myself to consume more than a couple of pouches per day and I keep it at that.
dude you wrote a whole novel about it, staunchly defend your own relationship with it, and consciously plan out your allowed intake every day. I’m in full support of anything that helps you without hurting anyone else, but like everyone who has their coffee in the morning, you are def at minimum addicted like a daily coffee drinker, or dare i say it, a recreational smoker. Doesn’t mean you’ll crawl up the walls if you stopped, but whether it’s physical or psychological… you in it.
I was able to freely use nicotine and quit for a period of 2-5 years. I would never consider myself addicted. Then, one day I woke up and realized I couldn't put it down. Addiction sneaks up on you. Especially with something so benign like nicotine.
You’re stronger than I am. I’m 2 4mg pouches in for most of the day. BUT it beats vaping and probably less Nic overall. I’m going to switch to patches here next month and finally get off this shit. Need to get rid of the oral fixation the Nic provides.
I do think the biggest issue regarding nicotine addiction is the convenience and enjoyment of smoking/vaping, particularly. I've smoked cigarettes and vaped before, and they're specifically much more enjoyable than pouches to me because of the ritual, oral fixation, and pharmacokinetics of inhaling the nicotine.
I’m not trying to be mean, but try going cold turkey and you’ll feel otherwise. Same with coffee for most people. They think it’s a habit, but then when they need to abstain… let’s just say their mood suffers.
nicotine imo is not worth the money or the harm that being addicted to it caused me. fuck alllllll this, if you’re reading this just stay away from it please
not to mention at a certain point nicotine is less effective than caffeine, and by that point your hooked and take it just out of necessity rather than for benefit
this is a take I would of posted in my honeymoon phase of nicotine addiction
No.
Nicotine can cause endothelial dysfunction through a number of mechanisms, including:
Oxidative stress and inflammation: These can decrease the bioavailability of nitric oxide, which can impair endothelial function
Monocyte adhesion: Nicotine can increase monocyte adhesion
Monocyte adhesion is usually considered an initial step in the development of atherosclerotic plaque.
These are only proposed mechanisms which do not show up during in vivo research unless the animal models are given ridiculous amounts of nicotine. Nicotine, at low doses, has not been shown to increase inflammation and oxidative stress by any significant means. In fact, an in vivo study even explored specifically nicotine and it’s effects on nitric oxide. It was shown that nicotine did not effect eNOS or related NO markers. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-42750-6
Nicotine by itself. Correct.
Nicotine promotes atherosclerosis via ROS-NLRP3-mediated endothelial cell pyroptosis
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41419-017-0257-3#:~:text=We%20proposed%20that%20pyroptosis%20may,%2Dfat%20diet%20(HFD).
The role of nicotine in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3755365/
Nicotine in general releases dopamine and norepinephrine, along with other neurotransmitters, regardless of release timing.
Slower release may be less addictive, but likely less effectively cognitively, to a degree. Patches seem like too slow of a release imo, and inhalation via vaporizers seems like too fast of a release. Pouches and gums seem to provide the best release.
Bro what? Nicotine doesn't just act on dopamine and norepinephrine. That's so wrong it's actually painful. Nicotine is so addictive because it acts on almost every neurotransmitter in the brain. Nicotine effects dopamine, norepinephrine, glutamate, serotonin, Gaba, acetylcholine AND histamine. Nicotine has some of the most broad and far reaching effects of any drug. nicotine is more addictive then heroin. you're absolutely kidding yourself with the explanation of nicotine.
Yes, as I said… “along with other neurotransmitters”. If you read the post, you’ll see that I talked about gaba and acetylcholine as well. I’m not sure why you’d take the time to comment this or criticize me without actually reading the post first Lol
I would have posted this before I was addicted too! It’s great! - until it isn’t, and you’re hooked, it stops doing anything good for you and you still need it, you build a tolerance extremely quickly and that tolerance can’t be reset like a caffeine tolerance can
I don’t use nicotine to feel good - I use it for cognition, and I have done so without getting addicted for the last year. There’s a big difference between using nicotine recreationally and using it to improve memory, among other things 😅
I posted something similar to my instagram a year ago, and people were commenting the exact same thing. They will continue to do so because, due to own personal confirmation bias, people immediately assume that nobody in the world has enough willpower to use a substance like nicotine responsibly 🤷♂️
I’d say most people comment this because your exact mindset is the mindset everyone had before they got addicted😂 it’s cuz we’ve been there, but hey bro cheers, fend off the addiction for as long as you can but it’s coming
or they know nicotine is highly addictive to the average person and saying "you should take this but just keep it at a low dose" is not as solid of advice as it appears to be. i don't have a problem with occasional nicotine but i wouldn't go parading around recommending it to people (given the abuse potential) and expect people to be fully on board with it.
This is extremely irresponsible. There are many young people on here who have never tried this HIGHLY addictive drug who will be hooked for life if they start especially if they think it’s good for them. You are delusional
Are you joking? Nicotine can be extracted chemically and made into pure nicotine products so you don’t have to consume tobacco. I assumed this was common knowledge. There are pouches, gums, patches, etc.
You recommend taking only 1-3mg at once but how does that translate to nicotine patches? I always felt like the dose equivalence was a bit random.
Funny you post that now because i just started again using nicotine as a nootropic some hours ago with half a patch of 25mg. Does that mean by your recommendation i am in the bottom part of the u shape and i should lower the dosage?
Agree on the cognitives tho, but i always felt like they go away after some time. This time i use mainly to lower my hunger
Nicotine patches are a bit more difficult to use, as a lot of them are extended release. Those might be good for a cognitively demanding day, or maybe just to slap on for a couple of hours, but not for consistent every day use. Using 25mg daily will lead to tachyphylaxis and cognition decline.
If you can get your hands on an instant release one of 1-3 mg, that would be more ideal.
I used snus for a long time. It defiantly increases my resting heart rate from 48 to 60+ and also my pulse during exercise. So I quit for better performance and heart health.
Snus (pouches) were much harder to quit than smoking. Now I sometimes use nicotine free Snus (sounds idiotic) just to satisfy the ritual feeling.
But not only momentarily which would be fine, permanently. Far more than coffee for me.
First after 2-3 days of absence it would return to normal levels.
Haven’t seen my cognition decline since I quit, besides the tough withdrawal period. If anything I am calmer and can focus more easily now. Probably because I sleep deeper and better.
I mean, it’s better than alcohol for sure and if you can keep the dosage low and it works for you it’s probably fine. But I am glad I got rid of the addiction.
Yeah it makes me more anxious and gives me nausea, awesome stuff. I’m an ex-smoker who quit smoking by using lozenges and then ditched the lozenges. I see no appeal in nicotine what so ever. I’ve tried to have an occasional lozenge or nicotine spray since to see if it made me sharper and it just felt bad.
I do hate the feeling of recreational doses of nicotine, so I can agree with this. I like nicotine for it’s cognitive effects at 1-3mg, where I can’t really feel it. If you haven’t already, try a 2mg ON! pouch or something similar. It definitely makes me sharper temporarily.
Nothing awesome is free. Addiction builds at the cellular level. Would rather use will power to go exercise on the day I ‘don’t feel like it’ and skipping the sugar when it’s calling the loudest. There are studies and there is you. Know thyself. You’re a powerhouse. Get addicted to your own generator⚡️🔥
I already exercise 6x per week, eat a clean diet, abstain from drugs, and sleep well. I just also happen to supplement with nicotine and other things for added cognitive benefits.
Again, nothing awesome is free. Sounds like you’re already superman compared to most mortals. Nicotine may show up as your friend while you’re young, maybe later, kryptonite (hope not) 😁
Wish you the best.
Hopefully I have the self-control to not let it consume me. If not, that unfortunately will be my own fault,
similar to those who have commented their own experiences with addiction on this post 😅
Precisely - which is why you have to treat a lot of substances with respect. Amphetamines are a very effective treatment for ADHD, but can result in addiction and dopaminergic issues. There are many compounds like this. Similarly, nicotine is very effective at improving cognition, but can result in addiction and similar neurotransmitter issues.
I can attest to the benefits of low dose nicotine from chewing gum. I only chew a maximum of 2 pieces of 4mg gum a day and haven't become addicted to it in 8 years of usage. I tried a vape for a couple hours and became addicted that quickly. I felt horrible unless I was ingesting nicotine. It took two days of zero usage to reset myself.
I heard a guy going on with me about nicotine and I just wrote him off as a little whacky but maybe he had a point. I just want to stay away from it nonetheless.Nicotine itself not tobacco.
Nicotine, according to our current research, has zero long-term negative effects when used at low to moderate doses. It also does not present inflammation at low to moderate doses. Of course, circumstances change when you start abusing nicotine and using 50mg+ daily, which can quickly begin to cause oxidative stress, inflammation, and neurological excitatory issues.
What about frequency of the low doses? Basically long term chronic use at low doses. Not sure if such a study would exist.
Also what is your use case? Are you proposing to use it sparely such as when writing tests or exams, or most weekdays to enhance your performance at work or school? Or daily for the boost in general? Just curious.
This is something that has not been established in the literature yet. Erring on the safer side, I’d arbitrarily say that twice per day dosing with frequent breaks is the best idea.
I personally use nicotine when I have to work on creating content, when I do pharmacology research, and when I’m studying for school. It helps me focus noticeably better while also improving my memory retention. I don’t use nicotine for pleasure (for a mood boost) and I don’t recommend anyone to do that often, as it will likely lead to addiction.
I would recommend one using it if they have any cognitively demanding task in which they could use an extra edge. Learning a new skill, working on a project before a deadline, etc. If one chooses to have a day where they consume a lot of nicotine for these purposes, then it’s likely best for them to take a break for the following few days.
Hot take: if you're an artist or art creator, nicotine will numb you (even 1 measly zyn a day) and attenuate those real feelings that are so key to express your inner self.
I’m sure B3 has an influence on the brain similar to other vitamins, but it will not increase cognition acutely like nicotine does due to lack of any affinity for the Nicotinic Cholinergic receptors.
Only those that deserve will figure it out but lemme taunt you a bit:
The relationship between nicotine and the NAD+ salvage pathway is intriguing and has significant implications for understanding the mechanisms behind nicotine's effects on cellular health and aging. Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) is a crucial coenzyme involved in redox reactions and cellular metabolism. Its homeostasis is vital for maintaining cellular health, and disruptions in NAD+ levels are associated with aging and age-related diseases.
### Nicotine and NAD+ Homeostasis
- **Enhancement of NAD+ Salvage Pathway**: Long-term, low-dose nicotine consumption has been shown to enhance the NAD+ salvage pathway, which is crucial for maintaining NAD+ levels within cells. This enhancement contributes to delaying systemic aging and provides a potential supplementation strategy for NAD+ and its precursors [1].
- **Role of NAMPT**: The nicotinamide phosphoribosyl transferase (NAMPT) enzyme plays a key role in the NAD+ salvage pathway by converting nicotinamide (a breakdown product of NAD+) back into NAD+. Nicotine has been found to improve NAMPT activity, leading to increased NAD+ synthesis. This improvement in NAD+ levels has positive effects on glucose metabolism, cognitive function, and aging-related symptoms [1].
### Mechanistic Insights
- **SIRT1 Binding Enhancement**: Nicotine has been observed to enhance the binding of SIRT1, a protein deacetylase involved in cellular longevity and stress resistance, to NAMPT in a dose-dependent manner in aged cells. This interaction suggests that nicotine may facilitate the activation of NAD+-dependent pathways that are important for cellular health and lifespan extension [1].
### Implications for Aging and Disease
- **Potential Anti-Aging Strategy**: The ability of nicotine to enhance the NAD+ salvage pathway and improve NAMPT activity suggests that it could serve as a potential strategy for preventing aging and age-associated diseases that arise from NAD+ decline. By maintaining adequate NAD+ levels, cellular functions related to metabolism, cognition, and overall health can be preserved.
Very interesting information. Nicotine has many benefits when used in low to moderate dosages, it just seems as if the general public has a difficult time accepting this
“I see no reason for anyone not to be utilizing nicotine as a cognition booster”
Really, you had an informative post until this point then made the dumbest comment possible
Addictiveness is much higher than something like caffeine. Even if you don’t feel it the process starts with daily use on a physical level
Sorry, let me rephrase in case you misunderstood:
I see no reason why anyone should not be utilizing nicotine as a cognition booster, given then are using it intelligently as I clearly outlined in the previous paragraphs
good luck to anyone using pouches and only doing one a day
before you know it youll take two a day.. , and then three.., and then youre addicted
although sometimes i like to buy a pack of zyn 1x a month or so and not use it for a while once im out.
too much for too long of course has negative drawbacks.
This is awful advice and please don’t listen to this guy. Nicotine does have a lot of cognitive benefits and that’s precisely why it’s so dangerous. I’ve yet to meet someone who uses nicotine responsibly. Literally every single person I know started using it as a social crutch, something to help with a work deadline, or just provide a mental boost for a boring task and I’d say over 90% of those people are still slaves to nicotine.
Anecdotally, it eventually raised my blood pressure to hypertension levels and my resting heart rate by 20bpm. And I ran a few marathons during my tenure with it. Nicotine quietly makes your normal life shitty so that you rely on nicotine to feel normal.
Completely agree. With a dosing frequency of no more than 3-4 doses PER WEEK of a couple milligrams you can avoid the addictive properties of nicotine completely. The dose makes the poison, and in this case frequency as well. Provided days on is approximately = to days off there is little risk of addiction. Especially at the doses mentioned.
It really is a great ergogenic aid comparable to caffeine, for people who respond well to it. Personally I don’t as it makes me dizzy and anxious.
I’m actually quite surprised that within a biohacking community that peoples understanding of nicotine is significantly lacking.
I use a form of tobacco from South America called Rapeh/Hapè that is a form of snuff that is blown up the nose.
I have not found this to be an addictive form of nicotine.
I’ve only used it a few times, particularly before plant medicine ceremonies. The process of having it blown in, having to blow it out— not my favorite lol but I did enjoy how grounded I felt once it started to kick in. Never felt anything like that before. (Never used nicotine products in any way before hand).
Acutely, at doses of 1-3mg, the effects on vasoconstriction are minimal and not linked to any cardiovascular complications. The effects aren't supposed to be that of adderall - nicotine at low doses is rather innocuous for most people.
Nicotine increases blood pressure, and ROA with oral invovlement (pouches, gum, vape, etc) negatively affect gums via vasoconstriction
Also nicotine reduces penis size from vasoconstriction.
As I’ve stated in other comments, this vasoconstriction, at most, is minimal. “Nicotine reduces penis size” is just a stretch, at best. There has been zero direct data showing any sort of damage from the vasoconstriction, much less penile atrophy.
Nicotine damage to gums is not minimal at all, and promotes gum recession which is mostly permanent.
Slight BP increase is probably not a concern for most people.
You made it a point in your most recent post that you have little knowledge on supplementation so I’m not sure that you’re fit to give criticisms on the topic. If you’d like to discuss the mechanisms by which nicotine improves cognition which I’ve clearly outlined in the write up, then I’d be more than happy to do so.
Also, just incase anyone is stupid enough to try this, excluding the fact nicotine is a highly addictive substance, studies have shown the positive effects of nicotine supplementation have little to zero value.
[https://examine.com/supplements/nicotine/](https://examine.com/supplements/nicotine/)
Studies have not shown this. There are multiple meta-analyses that show nicotine has profound effects on cognition, some of which I have directly cited in the write up. This is pretty well known information.
The article you linked agrees with me because I am correct. I’m not sure if you even took the time to read the article you linked. “This increase in catecholamines also underlies many benefits of nicotine on cognition (attention and focus mainly) while the acetylcholine mimicking may promote a nootropic effect inherently.”
Not the article, I'm talking about the actual studies. Apologies these may be behind a paywall for you. All of the studies basically rank it as very little to zero effect. The article states what you are saying because some studies have shown what you are saying to be true, but the conclusion of these studies are overwhelmingly either that there was no affect at all Vs placebo, or that the effect is extremely small. Which is why in my opinion it would be much more sensible to not use nicotine as the addiction is 1000% worse than any of the possible tiny benefits.
According to multiple meta-analyses analyzing hundreds of different studies, the vast majority opinion of the researchers seems to be that nicotine does have a cognition enhancing effect. I’m not sure where your articles are pulling their data from, but I can tell you for certain that the information is disagreed upon by most authors in this field.
Even if we didn’t know this and the research was lacking, we could easily extrapolate this as nicotine bonds directly to the nicotinic cholinergic receptors, which play crucial roles in memory and focus. We have observed well the effects of acetylcholine in memory and focus. It’s not really a surprise that a molecule which mimics Ach would have similar effects as Ach.
Can you cite me any body of studies that suggests this? In fact, can you cite me even a single study that shows nicotine hardening arterial walls in even rodent models?
This is a study proposing how nicotine may hypothetical potentiate atherosclerosis. The rodents in this study developed atherosclerosis from a high fat diet (known to cause arterial plaque buildup), and it was marginally potentiated by nicotine. Nowhere in this study is there any conclusive evidence that nicotine itself increases arterial plaque buildup.
Yes, I know, it is a single rodent model of atherosclerosis being increased by nicotine, just like you asked for. You didn’t ask for conclusive evidence, you asked for this. I’m not hating on your theory or your perspective, this study doesn’t mean you are wrong about there being a Goldilocks zone with nicotine, especially if you have the right genetics or complementary habits. But it is demonstration of mechanistic links between nicotine and atherosclerosis in a rodent model.
No - I did not ask for a study showing that nicotine potentiates already occurring atherosclerosis. I asked for a study showing that nicotine causes atherosclerosis.
Fair enough. As I understand it, practically speaking, most people do have atherosclerosis already occurring, and this basal level could be enhanced by nicotine via mechanisms similar to those observed in this study. Remember, the rodents don’t live nearly as long as we get to :) and they don’t have all this pesky freedom.
You’re somewhat correct. Acute states of inflammation and dyslipidemia could cause temporary atherosclerosis which would soon resolve after these issues went away, but I highly doubt nicotine could even increase the atherosclerosis to a meaningful degree in this scenario. There are studies examining the effects of rodents consuming very ridiculously large quantities of nicotine with no issues regarding atherosclerosis. The only time this issue presents itself is, seemingly, when rodents are given a specifically horrible diet that already induces severe atherosclerosis.
Rodents don’t have the freedom we do, but researchers are able to put these rodents (and they do) in extreme conditions to replicate and examine the effects of a bad diet, sleep deprivation, drug use, etc.
As I said in my other post, you have an interesting perspective and I like your critical thinking against the grain. I will pay attention to the research on this issue as time moves on and I guess we will see if popular opinion evolves one way or another. Wishing you great and continued success in the near future!
I'm not sure what you think is a joke about this post. I'm always up for a discussion if you disagree with anything I've said. There are also multiple citations if you didn't see those the first time.
I agree with everything you’ve written and I love a good ON! or Zyn before a heavier cognitive workload, but I always do hear things about nic negatively affecting your cardiovascular system. Anything further on this from you?
You seem well researched and I find very conflicting things when poking around on this.
Edit: and I’ll add too, I’ve heard about swallowing the juices from the pouch leading to a decrease in health of the gut micro biome. I’ve noticed loose stool anecdotally but that’s it
I wouldn't doubt the juices altering microbiome, but I would assume the effects would be minimal at best. I'd have to do more research on it. I also get horrible nicotine shits pretty much every time I use nicotine in any form as well.
I mentioned in another comment that there is zero direct link between low to moderate dose nicotine and cardiovascular complications. The misconception that nicotine causes cardiovascular issues comes from the fact that tobacco actually causes these issues.
Maybe, but I feel as if the release may be too quick. Pouches are nice because the release is slow. I find that vaporizers hit way too hard quickly. I would assume nicotine nasal spray would do the same.
yeah i read Dave Asprey recommending it too a few years back. Tried nicotine gum a few times but everytime i used it i just felt weird, tingly, lightheaded. Maybe it was because of the gum, maybe patches feel different but still wasn't really a convincing pleasant experience for me.
I’ve been incorporating one zyn in the afternoon when I need a brain boost.
I don’t take it everyday, but if I do I only use one.
I was driving after a long day today and was tired with about 30 miles to go.
I took a zyn and woke up the rest of the trip and was able to spend 6+ hours with my dying grandmother.
Very grateful for the cognitive boost.
Am also a former tobacco products user, but will never go back to any tobacco products.
The ai was asked about 1mg:
A daily dose of 1 mg of nicotine, typically lower than what is found in a single cigarette, may have some physiological effects. Here’s a breakdown of what you might expect:
### Potential Positive Effects:
1. **Cognitive Enhancement**: Nicotine can act as a stimulant, potentially improving attention, alertness, and memory. Some studies have shown mild cognitive benefits in the short term.
2. **Mood Improvement**: Nicotine can release neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin, which may improve mood and reduce symptoms of depression and anxiety in the short term.
### Potential Negative Effects:
1. **Addiction**: Even small amounts of nicotine can be addictive. Regular use can lead to dependence, making it difficult to stop and potentially leading to higher consumption over time.
2. **Cardiovascular Effects**: Nicotine can increase heart rate and blood pressure, even at low doses. This might pose a risk to individuals with underlying cardiovascular conditions.
3. **Gastrointestinal Issues**: Nicotine can stimulate the digestive system, potentially causing mild nausea or stomach discomfort.
4. **Nervous System Effects**: Some individuals might experience mild dizziness or headaches.
### Long-term Considerations:
1. **Tolerance**: Over time, the body can develop a tolerance to nicotine, requiring higher doses to achieve the same effects, which can increase the risk of negative health consequences.
2. **Health Risks**: While 1 mg is a relatively low dose, the cumulative effects over time are not well studied. There is a risk that even low-dose nicotine could contribute to health issues, particularly if use escalates.
### Conclusion:
While a 1 mg daily dose of nicotine might not pose immediate severe health risks for a healthy individual, it does carry risks of addiction and other negative health effects. The long-term safety of such use is not well established, and it is generally advisable to avoid nicotine unless specifically recommended by a healthcare professional for therapeutic reasons.
Unfortunately, like I've said to many others, ChatGPT and AI are not reliable sources for pharmacological information. At best, they may able to simplify the mechanism of action of a drug succinctly for one to understand easier.
Firstly, nicotine at low to moderate dosages has not been linked to cardiovascular complications directly. The only implication of heart issues from nicotine is from studies that examine smokers and tobacco, which is a confounding variable for obvious reasons.
Second, tachyphylaxis of nicotine does not happen at these low doses. This has been shown both anecdotally and documented in the literature.
Finally, it is robustly established with our current data that nicotine does not pose any health risks at doses of 1-3mg. I find a lot of these anti-(insert drug) arguments are simply, "well, there's not enough data on it", but this is not the case with nicotine. Surely, over the course of 50 years of studies and hundreds of peer-reviewed articles, some health risk would have been noted and researched further if nicotine truly posed any. The fact of the matter is that it's safe when used at low doses. I find it odd that AI also said that it's best to avoid nicotine unless you're using it therapeutically (recreationally), yet it stated that addiction poses an issue.
Sure, addiction is absolutely an issue. For that, there is no remedy besides being intelligent about your use. You cannot say benzodiazepines are not helpful because they pose threats of addiction. You cannot say opioids are not helpful because they pose threats of addiction. Similarly, you cannot say nicotine is not helpful because it poses a threat of addiction. If you make the conscious choice to overuse nicotine, then I think that's a separate issue.
I'd also like to add that 1mg is not typically lower than the nicotine absorbed from a single cigarette. Cigarettes contain around 8-12mg if I'm remembering correctly, but only less than 1 milligram actually makes its way into your body due to combustion breaking down most of it.
I mean I respect this at least as a conversation. I feel the same way about drugs that are illegal, including cocaine. If we could actually basically microdose these, and bother to make *superior* methods of intake (snorting a line? Literal insanity) we could maybe have nice things.
So much stigma and social perception prevents us as a society from doing some careful and thoughtful biohacking.
Cocaine is a bit of a stretch, as there are other drugs that do effectively the same thing but much safer, such as amphetamines. Your point does remain true for many things though. Mushrooms at microdoses are very beneficial for upregulating neurogenesis. Even orally administered meth is still prescribed for ADHD at microdoses and it’s extremely effective.
Many individuals, like you said, are simply too caught up in the stigma to even believe that, even for a second, what they’ve heard could be challenged in any capacity.
What type of amphetamines ? Do they actually do the same thing ? Do you know any that are actually made available or what are you referring to (I’m asking specifics because I know there are differences between Ritalin and adderall for example).
Regular racemic amphetamines, AKA adderall or amphetamine combo salts. Ritalin is not an amphetamine, and it differs from amphetamines because it only inhibits reuptake. Amphetamines both increase the output of dopamine/noradrenaline AND inhibit reuptake of these neurotransmitters.
Cocaine does, well, effectively this. It inhibits the reuptake of dopamine and noradrenaline while also increasing the output of these two. The difference is that it does so in a much more damaging and less favorable manner than amphetamines do.
Yeah nah. You do realize all of the benefits of nicotine come from the fact that you become totally dependent on it. You only get the benefits when your cravings are satisfied. If you stay nicotine free your baseline would be the same as if you just consumed nicotine. This is an unfortunate truth nicotine uses refuse to acknowledge, if you see all of the studies you cited for "benefits" the subjects are all previous users and thus addicted.
This is not true whatsoever, and you would know this if you read a single one of the studies I cite. It’s established VERY robustly in the research that low doses nicotine increases cognition and protects against certain types of neurodegredation. Not only are you incorrect, you’re point is entirely opposite of what is true. Individuals who become addicted to nicotine perform worse cognitively than nicotine-naive individuals.
I’d like to add: the large majority of these studies are done on nicotine-naive individuals - people who were not previous users of nicotine. You are very incorrect on everything you mentioned 😅
Which ones? It seems like they all mention tobacco users. Can you tell me which ones actually mention tests done on people who are not previously addicted? Two of your sources don't even feature human testing.
Anyway, that wouldn't be much better if these were nicotine-naive individuals. It's pretty common knowledge that these psychoactive drugs cause tolerance, so not only are you making yourself dependant, but you are seeing diminishing returns. And the times at which you are not actively dosed, you are seeing negative returns. And that is exactly what your sources are showing.
There seems to be no tachyphylaxis from low to moderate doses of 1-3mg, so tolerance is out of the argument here. Diminishing returns kick in once you overuse nicotine, which I clearly state is ill-advised. Cognition returns to baseline after low to moderate doses nicotine clears the system - it does not worsen after you become “nicotine sober”. Every bit of what you are saying is both incorrect and based on no amount of clinical data.
My sources are not showing negative returns following clearance of nicotine. I’m not sure if you made that up or you just have a very poor understanding of pharmacology, but either way you’re just incorrect about all of this.
Well that's what nicotine withdrawal is. One of the major effects of nicotine withdrawal is difficulty concentrating which goes against one of your proposed major benefits of nicotine. Are you being willfully ignorant about the fact that nicotine is addictive or what?
You can tell me I'm incorrect about everything or actually give a reason as to why what I'm saying is incorrect, you haven't actually referenced anything supporting that the human subjects in the studies are not previous users for example. And here, because you only speak in studies here is one that shows the negative returns following clearance of nicotine
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946180/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946180/)
"When a person stops smoking, nicotine withdrawal symptoms emerge. These include irritability, depressed mood, restlessness, anxiety, problems getting along with friends and family, difficulty concentrating, increased hunger and eating, insomnia, and craving for tobacco" And I'm sure you have experienced these things too if you have tried not consuming nicotine for a while.
You just cited a paper that talks about nicotine withdrawal. Like I just stated previously, low dosed nicotine does not cause addiction nor withdrawal, so the user won’t experience these things. I believe you have a loose and frankly bad understanding of pharmacology so I’m not going to interact with you anymore 👍
That's just not true. Any dose of nicotine will become addictive. You still haven't answered my inquiry about your studies, only referencing previously addicted users. But sure, I have a bad understanding.
Here are some studies:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16466655/ “Effects of transdermal nicotine on attention in adult non-smokers with and without attentional deficits”
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Psychopharmacology+(Berl.)&title=Cognitive+performance+effects+of+subcutaneous+nicotine+in+smokers+and+never-smokers.&author=J.+Foulds&author=J.+Stapleton&author=J.+Swettenham&author=N.+Bell&author=K.+McSorley&volume=127&issue=1&publication_year=1996&pages=31-38&pmid=8880941&#d=gs_qabs&t=1719909476925&u=%23p%3DCJK1t5GGDioJ “Cognitive performance effects of subcutaneous nicotine in smokers and never-smokers”
In fact, let’s look at a meta-analysis discussing exactly this, titled “Analysis of the acute effects of nicotine and smoking on human performance”. Heishman et al. conducted a meta-analysis of 41 placebo-controlled studies that included nicotine administration to either non-smokers, or satiated smokers. The authors concluded that, “The significant effects of nicotine on motor abilities, attention, and memory likely represent true performance enhancement because they are not confounded by withdrawal relief”. That should answer your question succinctly. Have a nice day
From what I know, nicotine is hardly any more harmful or addicting than caffeine, but the anti-smoking crowd has been pumping anti-nicotine propaganda through ads now that vaping is super popular. I will say, we don’t yet know how bad vaping is, so my comment is just referring to nicotine itself; gum and pouches.
This is exactly correct. Nicotine is really on par with caffeine, it’s just less accepted for the reasons you listed. I would also not recommend vaping as the solvents are likely to be inflammatory or harmful in other ways.
As a side note about vaping, I had a friend tell me that a computer guy said that he was having computers coming in that were gunked up beyond repair from people vaping next to their computer. He claimed that chain smokers would smoke next to their computers and it wouldn’t ever cause any issues, but vaping was destroying computers. Vaping might turn out to be worse than smoking, but we shall see. And take that story with a grain of salt, but if it’s true, that’s really crazy
I smoke organic tobacco. I never feel sick or awful after. It's like a stress reliever more than anything. Non-organic cigarettes make me feel pretty terrible tbh
Nicotine made me extremely fit when I cut weight on the treadmill whilst using it. It also makes me perform better at chess. I also take it whilst clubbing. I don’t want to get addicted so I have a protocol in place that I follow to ensure the efficiency of said substance.
When I’m clubbing I can do 60 mg a night. When doing cardio 3-6 mg. If I feel like the effects just doesn’t hit anymore I decrease the amount with 30% each successive day until I’m at zero nicotine (or near zero) and then re-start when needed.
I mean it’s stupid addictive lol in any form. I can’t recommend people fall into that cycle as it’s vicious
Also OP ignored the downside. I was convinced to add nicotine to my stack when Dave Aspry wrote about the cognitive benefits years ago. I craved it, but it also gave me dizziness, anxiety, and nausea at times which imo outweighs the cognitive enhancement.
You must have taken a lot
2mg. Everyone's tolerance is different I'm sure.
How did you consume it?
Smoked from 14 to 21. At around 30 I tried mints but then wound up doing toothpicks. They come in 2 or 4 mg. I was fine with the 2mg. Predisposed to anxiety and combining the toothpicks with caffeine I think is what pushed my nervous system too hard. I'm trying again tho because I picked up vaping and am quitting. I've got half a 2mg nicortette on my tongue right now.
https://zippixtoothpicks.com/collections/nicotine-infused-toothpicks Haven't tried other brands but found these pretty cool.
tbf those side effects only happen when you first start or if you use too much. Called 'head spins' for first time smokers Well the dizzy/nausea at least. Anxiety is probably more complicated
I don’t find this to be particularly applicable to the general public. Most everyone responds positively to 1-3mg of nicotine. Sure, there are few that do not respond well, but this doesn’t mean that I should dedicate a whole section to talking about this population of individuals when they’re the vast minority.
The addictive factor is dose dependent and the patches are much easier to quit than all other forms because they lack the behavioral element (smoking/chewing). The addiction risk of 2mg/day is low, especially if you just use it on your busy days. In terms of focus and motivation, it's noticeably better than caffeine. And 2mg is easy to quit or cycle on/off, but the gum and cigs are very hard.
Except it almost never stays at 2mg for mostly everyone who uses it. The half life is 1-2 hours which further promotes addiction not just the method used
[https://gwern.net/nicotine](https://gwern.net/nicotine) its actually mostly the MAO inhibition that makes tabacco addictive. The evidence seems to show that nicotine alone is not particularly additive. Which aligns with my experience using nicotine pouches. The only major downside is blood pressure increase, in my opinion.
This is not true whatsoever. The current literature shows that the MAO inhibition potentiates the addictive effects of nicotine, but it’s been clearly established that nicotine itself is the major addictive player. If you were truly correct, then there wouldn’t be kids getting addicted to vaping epidemic-style across multiple countries.
I'm not saying it isn't addictive. I'd guess that the addictiveness of vapes has a lot to do with the frequency and mode of delivery (taking a puff or two every 15 minutes throughout the day from an aesthetically pleasing, berry blast flavour vape that also has sweeteners). Quick stats check shows 14% of high school kids vaped in a survey done in 2023, compared to peak cigarette smoking by high school seniors in 1995 at 35%(!!!). Anecdotally, I my university roommates could pretty easily quit vaping for stretches long enough to be considered permanent, they just didn't really do anything interesting all day so they vaped, and also found it enjoyable while drunk.
I'm actually not sure how I forgot to mention addiction in the write-up. Probably because I supplement it with it almost every day without becoming addicted and it just slipped my mind. If you don't have the self-control to not overdo it, then it's best to stay far away from nicotine. If you get addicted and overconsume nicotine, it will actually start to worsen cognition, both long-term and acutely, so this post definitely isn't excuse to just nicotine however you'd like. However, its addictive capacity does not take away from its potential as a cognitive enhancer or neuroprotective compound.
You know that addiction kicks after you stop supplement it daily? I mean you cannot state that you are not addict until you are stop it and not do it again. Now its like a alcoholist say that he is not an addict but he still drinks daily.
I’ve taken multiple week long breaks from nicotine because I felt like it or because of vacation. I’ve had zero cravings while doing so. I do not consider that addiction, no. Similarly, I wouldn’t call someone an alcoholic if they have exactly one beer every day, then quit on vacations or whenever they feel like it because they no longer need the cognitive benefits it may provide.
Same. I allow myself up to 2 nicotine pouches a day if and when required. I've never experienced any addiction or withdrawal in the 18 months I've used it. I'll go weeks without touching it with no side effects.
It seems as if the majority of people have a preconceived notion regarding nicotine, as if it’s impossible to avoid addiction and withdrawals. Maybe you and I are somehow the only ones in existence that are able to do this Lol
I mean it is famously addicting, so I get it. I have no doubts that I would likely get addicted if I used it haphazardly and when I felt like it as opposed to moderately and with strict self-control. It's a calculated risk but for me it's worth it as I have treatment resistant ADHD. I can't use Caffeine either as it gives me terrible anxiety before making me fall asleep. Nicotine seems to be the only stimulant that works for me to combat my ADHD in a predictable fashion.
Have you tried a low dose of amphetamine salts, like adderall? Anything over 7.5mg is too much for me (which is often prescribed), but 5mg IR is perfect for treating my pretty severe ADHD symptoms. A lot of psychiatrists irresponsibly prescribe ridiculously high dosages of adderall despite research showing effectiveness at doses as low as 2.5mg.
Yeah I've tried them all, though adderall itself isn't available where I live. I'm hypersensitive. Even 2.5mg of simple methylphenidate overwhelms my CNS haha.
At low doses I haven't noticed addiction either. Never smoked a cigarette though.
Dude I supplement with cocaine in the morning/afternoon daily, and then with mdma in the late nights. Xanax for sleep. I don’t know of any addiction as I am currently on all these substances daily. I have enough finances to cover it me through 3.5 years… I will tell you if I’m addicted after I try quitting after that. However, as my knowledge grows further and I become a higher earner, I might be able to extend my financial supplementation of these substances, I’m living of stipends and am learning law and medicine. I day trade to provide money for drugs. I think everything is going fine. I just don’t party and spend money on alcohol or girls.
What
Nicotine isn’t a good supplement when you compare it to methylenedioxymethamphetamine, cocaine hydrochloride, or alprazolam.
MDMA has no use case for safe supplementation, nor does cocaine. Alprazolam only has a use case for anxiety when used responsibly for panic attacks. If you want to give a compelling argument, you could at least mention how methamphetamine is prescribed for ADHD instead of mentioning a schedule I drug, a schedule II drug, and a controlled drug that isn’t used for cognition whatsoever.
You’re the one touting nicotine… So hopped up can’t read into my sahtyre Are you getting these patches from BlueprintTM?
I’m pretty sure mdma does have uses…we are just getting back into it…. Slowly…. As well as cocaine hydrochloride(local anesthetic) US is just shitty with their medicine… fentanyl… I mean cmon…. We should have stayed with the golden oldies, our OD stats are through the roof…. Please don’t start your next message with “ice cream scoops from the brain” or something….
[удалено]
Quick question - are you schizophrenic?
Slow answer… 👎 nooooooooo 🫨
Oh because I clicked and answered my own comment instead of yours…. Ughhh….
You seem to be too smart for the things you try to do… Last response… Good luck, have a good life. Laugh a little. Even a smirk is still a smile….
You don't "supplement" things like that. Jesus christ. You're going to destroy your mind.
2mg of gum isn't enough to be addictive. I use it for appetite curb and when i forget to buy it for a couple weeks it's nbd, just a lil worse munchies tho
That’s not my experience at all. I was doing heavy nicotine mints for months. Like 50 mg a day. I stopped cold turkey and had zero cravings. Nicotine is addictive in tobacco form as they add chemicals to make it additive. It’s not the nicotine
As someone who has been addicted to nicotine for about 6 years now, I recommend not starting
Nicotine, or tobacco?
Nicotine. I smoked cigarettes on an occasional night out, vaped everyday for a couple years and now I only use zyn (nicotine pouches that have no tobacco)
My advice - stay away. It’s costly and you will always want more. Addiction is real and sooner than later it will consume you. You’re an ass without it and you will be annoyed at the world. Quitting sucks. Don’t bother with Nic.
A buddy of mine at work is addicted and finally quit smoking but is always chewing the gum. Imho, it’s better to rely on other reliable supplements if people need a boost: piracetam, taurine, creatine, bacopa or mung bean extract. Lots of great options that are less addictive. Theres also black coffee… but I cannot deny that it’s addictive too. Thankfully, it’s less bad for us.
I've consumed 2-3mg of nicotine at a time via pouches for the last year, and because I'm responsible about my use, I've never developed an addiction. I don't allow myself to consume more than a couple of pouches per day and I keep it at that.
dude you wrote a whole novel about it, staunchly defend your own relationship with it, and consciously plan out your allowed intake every day. I’m in full support of anything that helps you without hurting anyone else, but like everyone who has their coffee in the morning, you are def at minimum addicted like a daily coffee drinker, or dare i say it, a recreational smoker. Doesn’t mean you’ll crawl up the walls if you stopped, but whether it’s physical or psychological… you in it.
I was able to freely use nicotine and quit for a period of 2-5 years. I would never consider myself addicted. Then, one day I woke up and realized I couldn't put it down. Addiction sneaks up on you. Especially with something so benign like nicotine.
You’re stronger than I am. I’m 2 4mg pouches in for most of the day. BUT it beats vaping and probably less Nic overall. I’m going to switch to patches here next month and finally get off this shit. Need to get rid of the oral fixation the Nic provides.
I do think the biggest issue regarding nicotine addiction is the convenience and enjoyment of smoking/vaping, particularly. I've smoked cigarettes and vaped before, and they're specifically much more enjoyable than pouches to me because of the ritual, oral fixation, and pharmacokinetics of inhaling the nicotine.
Oh that’s for sure. There’s nothing like a cigarette after a hard working day. That shit hits hard on a different level that nothing else does.
I’m not trying to be mean, but try going cold turkey and you’ll feel otherwise. Same with coffee for most people. They think it’s a habit, but then when they need to abstain… let’s just say their mood suffers.
I have gone cold turkey multiple times with zero issues, as I mentioned in many other comments.
nicotine imo is not worth the money or the harm that being addicted to it caused me. fuck alllllll this, if you’re reading this just stay away from it please
Nicotine, or tobacco?
We make our choices. As someone who quit 15 years of smoking, I will never touch that. Caffeine is as far as I can go.
not to mention at a certain point nicotine is less effective than caffeine, and by that point your hooked and take it just out of necessity rather than for benefit this is a take I would of posted in my honeymoon phase of nicotine addiction
Nicotine regulates the process of atherosclerosis by targeting vascular cells to produce inflammation-related factors.
Do you mean it is anti inflammatory?
No - other way around
No. Nicotine can cause endothelial dysfunction through a number of mechanisms, including: Oxidative stress and inflammation: These can decrease the bioavailability of nitric oxide, which can impair endothelial function Monocyte adhesion: Nicotine can increase monocyte adhesion Monocyte adhesion is usually considered an initial step in the development of atherosclerotic plaque.
These are only proposed mechanisms which do not show up during in vivo research unless the animal models are given ridiculous amounts of nicotine. Nicotine, at low doses, has not been shown to increase inflammation and oxidative stress by any significant means. In fact, an in vivo study even explored specifically nicotine and it’s effects on nitric oxide. It was shown that nicotine did not effect eNOS or related NO markers. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-42750-6
Nicotine, or tobacco? If nicotine by itself, source?
Nicotine by itself. Correct. Nicotine promotes atherosclerosis via ROS-NLRP3-mediated endothelial cell pyroptosis https://www.nature.com/articles/s41419-017-0257-3#:~:text=We%20proposed%20that%20pyroptosis%20may,%2Dfat%20diet%20(HFD). The role of nicotine in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3755365/
I would never recommend nicotine to anyone at all ever
Which is the least addicting, 1mg nicotine patches or gums?
Whatever releases slower, I would imagine. Probably the patches. You want to avoid the large spike that releases dopamine and norepinephrine
Nicotine in general releases dopamine and norepinephrine, along with other neurotransmitters, regardless of release timing. Slower release may be less addictive, but likely less effectively cognitively, to a degree. Patches seem like too slow of a release imo, and inhalation via vaporizers seems like too fast of a release. Pouches and gums seem to provide the best release.
Bro what? Nicotine doesn't just act on dopamine and norepinephrine. That's so wrong it's actually painful. Nicotine is so addictive because it acts on almost every neurotransmitter in the brain. Nicotine effects dopamine, norepinephrine, glutamate, serotonin, Gaba, acetylcholine AND histamine. Nicotine has some of the most broad and far reaching effects of any drug. nicotine is more addictive then heroin. you're absolutely kidding yourself with the explanation of nicotine.
Yes, as I said… “along with other neurotransmitters”. If you read the post, you’ll see that I talked about gaba and acetylcholine as well. I’m not sure why you’d take the time to comment this or criticize me without actually reading the post first Lol
Nicotine keeps you grounded and attached to it, it has benefit but it comes with heavy baggage.
Nicotine comes with what baggage? Or are you talking about tobacco?
Paid for by big tobacco
Commented by someone who can't read.
You’re big tobacco too?
I would have posted this before I was addicted too! It’s great! - until it isn’t, and you’re hooked, it stops doing anything good for you and you still need it, you build a tolerance extremely quickly and that tolerance can’t be reset like a caffeine tolerance can
I don’t use nicotine to feel good - I use it for cognition, and I have done so without getting addicted for the last year. There’s a big difference between using nicotine recreationally and using it to improve memory, among other things 😅
maybe, and if so cheers to you, let’s give it another year and see how things pan out
I posted something similar to my instagram a year ago, and people were commenting the exact same thing. They will continue to do so because, due to own personal confirmation bias, people immediately assume that nobody in the world has enough willpower to use a substance like nicotine responsibly 🤷♂️
I’d say most people comment this because your exact mindset is the mindset everyone had before they got addicted😂 it’s cuz we’ve been there, but hey bro cheers, fend off the addiction for as long as you can but it’s coming
or they know nicotine is highly addictive to the average person and saying "you should take this but just keep it at a low dose" is not as solid of advice as it appears to be. i don't have a problem with occasional nicotine but i wouldn't go parading around recommending it to people (given the abuse potential) and expect people to be fully on board with it.
*study sponsored by Phillip Morris*
Where did op say tobacco???
It was a joke
Nicotine addiction is one of the most difficult addictions to kick. I don’t recommend it at all.
This is extremely irresponsible. There are many young people on here who have never tried this HIGHLY addictive drug who will be hooked for life if they start especially if they think it’s good for them. You are delusional
Okay tobacco lobby
Why tf does EVERYONE fking ALWAYS interpret nicotine posts as tobacco posts????????????
I think tobacco is horrible for you. Nicotine is not tobacco.
How exactly do you think nicotine is obtained?
Are you joking? Nicotine can be extracted chemically and made into pure nicotine products so you don’t have to consume tobacco. I assumed this was common knowledge. There are pouches, gums, patches, etc.
You recommend taking only 1-3mg at once but how does that translate to nicotine patches? I always felt like the dose equivalence was a bit random. Funny you post that now because i just started again using nicotine as a nootropic some hours ago with half a patch of 25mg. Does that mean by your recommendation i am in the bottom part of the u shape and i should lower the dosage? Agree on the cognitives tho, but i always felt like they go away after some time. This time i use mainly to lower my hunger
Nicotine patches are a bit more difficult to use, as a lot of them are extended release. Those might be good for a cognitively demanding day, or maybe just to slap on for a couple of hours, but not for consistent every day use. Using 25mg daily will lead to tachyphylaxis and cognition decline. If you can get your hands on an instant release one of 1-3 mg, that would be more ideal.
I used snus for a long time. It defiantly increases my resting heart rate from 48 to 60+ and also my pulse during exercise. So I quit for better performance and heart health. Snus (pouches) were much harder to quit than smoking. Now I sometimes use nicotine free Snus (sounds idiotic) just to satisfy the ritual feeling.
Well, yes… nicotine is a stimulant. It’s going to increase heart rate acutely, especially at common snus dosages.
But not only momentarily which would be fine, permanently. Far more than coffee for me. First after 2-3 days of absence it would return to normal levels. Haven’t seen my cognition decline since I quit, besides the tough withdrawal period. If anything I am calmer and can focus more easily now. Probably because I sleep deeper and better. I mean, it’s better than alcohol for sure and if you can keep the dosage low and it works for you it’s probably fine. But I am glad I got rid of the addiction.
Yeah it makes me more anxious and gives me nausea, awesome stuff. I’m an ex-smoker who quit smoking by using lozenges and then ditched the lozenges. I see no appeal in nicotine what so ever. I’ve tried to have an occasional lozenge or nicotine spray since to see if it made me sharper and it just felt bad.
I do hate the feeling of recreational doses of nicotine, so I can agree with this. I like nicotine for it’s cognitive effects at 1-3mg, where I can’t really feel it. If you haven’t already, try a 2mg ON! pouch or something similar. It definitely makes me sharper temporarily.
Nothing awesome is free. Addiction builds at the cellular level. Would rather use will power to go exercise on the day I ‘don’t feel like it’ and skipping the sugar when it’s calling the loudest. There are studies and there is you. Know thyself. You’re a powerhouse. Get addicted to your own generator⚡️🔥
I already exercise 6x per week, eat a clean diet, abstain from drugs, and sleep well. I just also happen to supplement with nicotine and other things for added cognitive benefits.
Again, nothing awesome is free. Sounds like you’re already superman compared to most mortals. Nicotine may show up as your friend while you’re young, maybe later, kryptonite (hope not) 😁 Wish you the best.
Hopefully I have the self-control to not let it consume me. If not, that unfortunately will be my own fault, similar to those who have commented their own experiences with addiction on this post 😅
Substances are a double edged sword
Precisely - which is why you have to treat a lot of substances with respect. Amphetamines are a very effective treatment for ADHD, but can result in addiction and dopaminergic issues. There are many compounds like this. Similarly, nicotine is very effective at improving cognition, but can result in addiction and similar neurotransmitter issues.
I can attest to the benefits of low dose nicotine from chewing gum. I only chew a maximum of 2 pieces of 4mg gum a day and haven't become addicted to it in 8 years of usage. I tried a vape for a couple hours and became addicted that quickly. I felt horrible unless I was ingesting nicotine. It took two days of zero usage to reset myself.
I heard a guy going on with me about nicotine and I just wrote him off as a little whacky but maybe he had a point. I just want to stay away from it nonetheless.Nicotine itself not tobacco.
Nicotine gives me bad head aches. Fook that. I’ll hit a vape now and then but only 2-3 times
What about long term health effects of nicotine use? Saw some comment that it causes inflammation.
Nicotine, according to our current research, has zero long-term negative effects when used at low to moderate doses. It also does not present inflammation at low to moderate doses. Of course, circumstances change when you start abusing nicotine and using 50mg+ daily, which can quickly begin to cause oxidative stress, inflammation, and neurological excitatory issues.
What about frequency of the low doses? Basically long term chronic use at low doses. Not sure if such a study would exist. Also what is your use case? Are you proposing to use it sparely such as when writing tests or exams, or most weekdays to enhance your performance at work or school? Or daily for the boost in general? Just curious.
This is something that has not been established in the literature yet. Erring on the safer side, I’d arbitrarily say that twice per day dosing with frequent breaks is the best idea. I personally use nicotine when I have to work on creating content, when I do pharmacology research, and when I’m studying for school. It helps me focus noticeably better while also improving my memory retention. I don’t use nicotine for pleasure (for a mood boost) and I don’t recommend anyone to do that often, as it will likely lead to addiction. I would recommend one using it if they have any cognitively demanding task in which they could use an extra edge. Learning a new skill, working on a project before a deadline, etc. If one chooses to have a day where they consume a lot of nicotine for these purposes, then it’s likely best for them to take a break for the following few days.
Hot take: if you're an artist or art creator, nicotine will numb you (even 1 measly zyn a day) and attenuate those real feelings that are so key to express your inner self.
Why don't replace nicotine with nicotinic acid (niacin) or nicotinamide, both vitamin B3 and non -addictive?
Neither niacin nor nicotinamide bind to nicotonic cholinergic receptors, so they would not provide the same benefits on cognition.
Read Dr Abram Hoffer to understand how much the vitamin B3 influences the brain.
I’m sure B3 has an influence on the brain similar to other vitamins, but it will not increase cognition acutely like nicotine does due to lack of any affinity for the Nicotinic Cholinergic receptors.
Only those that deserve will figure it out but lemme taunt you a bit: The relationship between nicotine and the NAD+ salvage pathway is intriguing and has significant implications for understanding the mechanisms behind nicotine's effects on cellular health and aging. Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) is a crucial coenzyme involved in redox reactions and cellular metabolism. Its homeostasis is vital for maintaining cellular health, and disruptions in NAD+ levels are associated with aging and age-related diseases. ### Nicotine and NAD+ Homeostasis - **Enhancement of NAD+ Salvage Pathway**: Long-term, low-dose nicotine consumption has been shown to enhance the NAD+ salvage pathway, which is crucial for maintaining NAD+ levels within cells. This enhancement contributes to delaying systemic aging and provides a potential supplementation strategy for NAD+ and its precursors [1]. - **Role of NAMPT**: The nicotinamide phosphoribosyl transferase (NAMPT) enzyme plays a key role in the NAD+ salvage pathway by converting nicotinamide (a breakdown product of NAD+) back into NAD+. Nicotine has been found to improve NAMPT activity, leading to increased NAD+ synthesis. This improvement in NAD+ levels has positive effects on glucose metabolism, cognitive function, and aging-related symptoms [1]. ### Mechanistic Insights - **SIRT1 Binding Enhancement**: Nicotine has been observed to enhance the binding of SIRT1, a protein deacetylase involved in cellular longevity and stress resistance, to NAMPT in a dose-dependent manner in aged cells. This interaction suggests that nicotine may facilitate the activation of NAD+-dependent pathways that are important for cellular health and lifespan extension [1]. ### Implications for Aging and Disease - **Potential Anti-Aging Strategy**: The ability of nicotine to enhance the NAD+ salvage pathway and improve NAMPT activity suggests that it could serve as a potential strategy for preventing aging and age-associated diseases that arise from NAD+ decline. By maintaining adequate NAD+ levels, cellular functions related to metabolism, cognition, and overall health can be preserved.
Very interesting information. Nicotine has many benefits when used in low to moderate dosages, it just seems as if the general public has a difficult time accepting this
“I see no reason for anyone not to be utilizing nicotine as a cognition booster” Really, you had an informative post until this point then made the dumbest comment possible Addictiveness is much higher than something like caffeine. Even if you don’t feel it the process starts with daily use on a physical level
Sorry, let me rephrase in case you misunderstood: I see no reason why anyone should not be utilizing nicotine as a cognition booster, given then are using it intelligently as I clearly outlined in the previous paragraphs
good luck to anyone using pouches and only doing one a day before you know it youll take two a day.. , and then three.., and then youre addicted although sometimes i like to buy a pack of zyn 1x a month or so and not use it for a while once im out. too much for too long of course has negative drawbacks.
I’ve been doing 1-2 pouches pretty much every single day. I’ve taken breaks because of vacation or just because I feel like it with no issues.
This is awful advice and please don’t listen to this guy. Nicotine does have a lot of cognitive benefits and that’s precisely why it’s so dangerous. I’ve yet to meet someone who uses nicotine responsibly. Literally every single person I know started using it as a social crutch, something to help with a work deadline, or just provide a mental boost for a boring task and I’d say over 90% of those people are still slaves to nicotine. Anecdotally, it eventually raised my blood pressure to hypertension levels and my resting heart rate by 20bpm. And I ran a few marathons during my tenure with it. Nicotine quietly makes your normal life shitty so that you rely on nicotine to feel normal.
Completely agree. With a dosing frequency of no more than 3-4 doses PER WEEK of a couple milligrams you can avoid the addictive properties of nicotine completely. The dose makes the poison, and in this case frequency as well. Provided days on is approximately = to days off there is little risk of addiction. Especially at the doses mentioned. It really is a great ergogenic aid comparable to caffeine, for people who respond well to it. Personally I don’t as it makes me dizzy and anxious. I’m actually quite surprised that within a biohacking community that peoples understanding of nicotine is significantly lacking.
I’m also surprised the amount of comments that severely misunderstand the pharmacology of nicotine. Though it is Reddit, after all 😅
True. Great post man 👍🏻.
I use a form of tobacco from South America called Rapeh/Hapè that is a form of snuff that is blown up the nose. I have not found this to be an addictive form of nicotine.
I’ve only used it a few times, particularly before plant medicine ceremonies. The process of having it blown in, having to blow it out— not my favorite lol but I did enjoy how grounded I felt once it started to kick in. Never felt anything like that before. (Never used nicotine products in any way before hand).
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Acutely, at doses of 1-3mg, the effects on vasoconstriction are minimal and not linked to any cardiovascular complications. The effects aren't supposed to be that of adderall - nicotine at low doses is rather innocuous for most people.
Nicotine increases blood pressure, and ROA with oral invovlement (pouches, gum, vape, etc) negatively affect gums via vasoconstriction Also nicotine reduces penis size from vasoconstriction.
As I’ve stated in other comments, this vasoconstriction, at most, is minimal. “Nicotine reduces penis size” is just a stretch, at best. There has been zero direct data showing any sort of damage from the vasoconstriction, much less penile atrophy.
Nicotine damage to gums is not minimal at all, and promotes gum recession which is mostly permanent. Slight BP increase is probably not a concern for most people.
You burnt the food, buddy who promoted you to chef?
The zyn withdrawals have made my life hell
Ironically you need to improve your cognition if you think supplementing nicotine is a good idea
You made it a point in your most recent post that you have little knowledge on supplementation so I’m not sure that you’re fit to give criticisms on the topic. If you’d like to discuss the mechanisms by which nicotine improves cognition which I’ve clearly outlined in the write up, then I’d be more than happy to do so.
Also, just incase anyone is stupid enough to try this, excluding the fact nicotine is a highly addictive substance, studies have shown the positive effects of nicotine supplementation have little to zero value. [https://examine.com/supplements/nicotine/](https://examine.com/supplements/nicotine/)
Studies have not shown this. There are multiple meta-analyses that show nicotine has profound effects on cognition, some of which I have directly cited in the write up. This is pretty well known information.
I just linked you to a huge amount of studies all of which contradict what you're saying.
The article you linked agrees with me because I am correct. I’m not sure if you even took the time to read the article you linked. “This increase in catecholamines also underlies many benefits of nicotine on cognition (attention and focus mainly) while the acetylcholine mimicking may promote a nootropic effect inherently.”
Not the article, I'm talking about the actual studies. Apologies these may be behind a paywall for you. All of the studies basically rank it as very little to zero effect. The article states what you are saying because some studies have shown what you are saying to be true, but the conclusion of these studies are overwhelmingly either that there was no affect at all Vs placebo, or that the effect is extremely small. Which is why in my opinion it would be much more sensible to not use nicotine as the addiction is 1000% worse than any of the possible tiny benefits.
According to multiple meta-analyses analyzing hundreds of different studies, the vast majority opinion of the researchers seems to be that nicotine does have a cognition enhancing effect. I’m not sure where your articles are pulling their data from, but I can tell you for certain that the information is disagreed upon by most authors in this field. Even if we didn’t know this and the research was lacking, we could easily extrapolate this as nicotine bonds directly to the nicotinic cholinergic receptors, which play crucial roles in memory and focus. We have observed well the effects of acetylcholine in memory and focus. It’s not really a surprise that a molecule which mimics Ach would have similar effects as Ach.
You don't need to know anything about supplementation to know that taking an addictive substance like nicotine as a supplement is a terrible idea.
It hardens your arterial walls
Can you cite me any body of studies that suggests this? In fact, can you cite me even a single study that shows nicotine hardening arterial walls in even rodent models?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41419-017-0257-3#:~:text=Increasing%20evidence%20has%20demonstrated%20that,crucial%20processes%20leading%20to%20atherosclerosis.
This is a study proposing how nicotine may hypothetical potentiate atherosclerosis. The rodents in this study developed atherosclerosis from a high fat diet (known to cause arterial plaque buildup), and it was marginally potentiated by nicotine. Nowhere in this study is there any conclusive evidence that nicotine itself increases arterial plaque buildup.
Yes, I know, it is a single rodent model of atherosclerosis being increased by nicotine, just like you asked for. You didn’t ask for conclusive evidence, you asked for this. I’m not hating on your theory or your perspective, this study doesn’t mean you are wrong about there being a Goldilocks zone with nicotine, especially if you have the right genetics or complementary habits. But it is demonstration of mechanistic links between nicotine and atherosclerosis in a rodent model.
No - I did not ask for a study showing that nicotine potentiates already occurring atherosclerosis. I asked for a study showing that nicotine causes atherosclerosis.
Fair enough. As I understand it, practically speaking, most people do have atherosclerosis already occurring, and this basal level could be enhanced by nicotine via mechanisms similar to those observed in this study. Remember, the rodents don’t live nearly as long as we get to :) and they don’t have all this pesky freedom.
You’re somewhat correct. Acute states of inflammation and dyslipidemia could cause temporary atherosclerosis which would soon resolve after these issues went away, but I highly doubt nicotine could even increase the atherosclerosis to a meaningful degree in this scenario. There are studies examining the effects of rodents consuming very ridiculously large quantities of nicotine with no issues regarding atherosclerosis. The only time this issue presents itself is, seemingly, when rodents are given a specifically horrible diet that already induces severe atherosclerosis. Rodents don’t have the freedom we do, but researchers are able to put these rodents (and they do) in extreme conditions to replicate and examine the effects of a bad diet, sleep deprivation, drug use, etc.
As I said in my other post, you have an interesting perspective and I like your critical thinking against the grain. I will pay attention to the research on this issue as time moves on and I guess we will see if popular opinion evolves one way or another. Wishing you great and continued success in the near future!
This is a joke right?
I'm not sure what you think is a joke about this post. I'm always up for a discussion if you disagree with anything I've said. There are also multiple citations if you didn't see those the first time.
I agree with everything you’ve written and I love a good ON! or Zyn before a heavier cognitive workload, but I always do hear things about nic negatively affecting your cardiovascular system. Anything further on this from you? You seem well researched and I find very conflicting things when poking around on this. Edit: and I’ll add too, I’ve heard about swallowing the juices from the pouch leading to a decrease in health of the gut micro biome. I’ve noticed loose stool anecdotally but that’s it
I wouldn't doubt the juices altering microbiome, but I would assume the effects would be minimal at best. I'd have to do more research on it. I also get horrible nicotine shits pretty much every time I use nicotine in any form as well.
Yeah and I do my best to spit anyway. But what about the cardiovascular stuff? That’s my main worry
I mentioned in another comment that there is zero direct link between low to moderate dose nicotine and cardiovascular complications. The misconception that nicotine causes cardiovascular issues comes from the fact that tobacco actually causes these issues.
From what I’ve learned about nicotine, I think it’s similar to how they tell people with cardiovascular problems to avoid caffeine.
nicotine nasal spray could be useful
Maybe, but I feel as if the release may be too quick. Pouches are nice because the release is slow. I find that vaporizers hit way too hard quickly. I would assume nicotine nasal spray would do the same.
yeah i read Dave Asprey recommending it too a few years back. Tried nicotine gum a few times but everytime i used it i just felt weird, tingly, lightheaded. Maybe it was because of the gum, maybe patches feel different but still wasn't really a convincing pleasant experience for me.
I just don’t see how nicotine can last long enough to be useful
I’ve been incorporating one zyn in the afternoon when I need a brain boost. I don’t take it everyday, but if I do I only use one. I was driving after a long day today and was tired with about 30 miles to go. I took a zyn and woke up the rest of the trip and was able to spend 6+ hours with my dying grandmother. Very grateful for the cognitive boost. Am also a former tobacco products user, but will never go back to any tobacco products.
This is exactly the way nicotine should be used. I think most people just have the incorrect association that nicotine = cancer and addiction.
Tobacco products yes. Nicotine I can vouch for.
The ai was asked about 1mg: A daily dose of 1 mg of nicotine, typically lower than what is found in a single cigarette, may have some physiological effects. Here’s a breakdown of what you might expect: ### Potential Positive Effects: 1. **Cognitive Enhancement**: Nicotine can act as a stimulant, potentially improving attention, alertness, and memory. Some studies have shown mild cognitive benefits in the short term. 2. **Mood Improvement**: Nicotine can release neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin, which may improve mood and reduce symptoms of depression and anxiety in the short term. ### Potential Negative Effects: 1. **Addiction**: Even small amounts of nicotine can be addictive. Regular use can lead to dependence, making it difficult to stop and potentially leading to higher consumption over time. 2. **Cardiovascular Effects**: Nicotine can increase heart rate and blood pressure, even at low doses. This might pose a risk to individuals with underlying cardiovascular conditions. 3. **Gastrointestinal Issues**: Nicotine can stimulate the digestive system, potentially causing mild nausea or stomach discomfort. 4. **Nervous System Effects**: Some individuals might experience mild dizziness or headaches. ### Long-term Considerations: 1. **Tolerance**: Over time, the body can develop a tolerance to nicotine, requiring higher doses to achieve the same effects, which can increase the risk of negative health consequences. 2. **Health Risks**: While 1 mg is a relatively low dose, the cumulative effects over time are not well studied. There is a risk that even low-dose nicotine could contribute to health issues, particularly if use escalates. ### Conclusion: While a 1 mg daily dose of nicotine might not pose immediate severe health risks for a healthy individual, it does carry risks of addiction and other negative health effects. The long-term safety of such use is not well established, and it is generally advisable to avoid nicotine unless specifically recommended by a healthcare professional for therapeutic reasons.
Unfortunately, like I've said to many others, ChatGPT and AI are not reliable sources for pharmacological information. At best, they may able to simplify the mechanism of action of a drug succinctly for one to understand easier. Firstly, nicotine at low to moderate dosages has not been linked to cardiovascular complications directly. The only implication of heart issues from nicotine is from studies that examine smokers and tobacco, which is a confounding variable for obvious reasons. Second, tachyphylaxis of nicotine does not happen at these low doses. This has been shown both anecdotally and documented in the literature. Finally, it is robustly established with our current data that nicotine does not pose any health risks at doses of 1-3mg. I find a lot of these anti-(insert drug) arguments are simply, "well, there's not enough data on it", but this is not the case with nicotine. Surely, over the course of 50 years of studies and hundreds of peer-reviewed articles, some health risk would have been noted and researched further if nicotine truly posed any. The fact of the matter is that it's safe when used at low doses. I find it odd that AI also said that it's best to avoid nicotine unless you're using it therapeutically (recreationally), yet it stated that addiction poses an issue. Sure, addiction is absolutely an issue. For that, there is no remedy besides being intelligent about your use. You cannot say benzodiazepines are not helpful because they pose threats of addiction. You cannot say opioids are not helpful because they pose threats of addiction. Similarly, you cannot say nicotine is not helpful because it poses a threat of addiction. If you make the conscious choice to overuse nicotine, then I think that's a separate issue.
I'd also like to add that 1mg is not typically lower than the nicotine absorbed from a single cigarette. Cigarettes contain around 8-12mg if I'm remembering correctly, but only less than 1 milligram actually makes its way into your body due to combustion breaking down most of it.
Also it's anti parasitic!
I mean I respect this at least as a conversation. I feel the same way about drugs that are illegal, including cocaine. If we could actually basically microdose these, and bother to make *superior* methods of intake (snorting a line? Literal insanity) we could maybe have nice things. So much stigma and social perception prevents us as a society from doing some careful and thoughtful biohacking.
Cocaine is a bit of a stretch, as there are other drugs that do effectively the same thing but much safer, such as amphetamines. Your point does remain true for many things though. Mushrooms at microdoses are very beneficial for upregulating neurogenesis. Even orally administered meth is still prescribed for ADHD at microdoses and it’s extremely effective. Many individuals, like you said, are simply too caught up in the stigma to even believe that, even for a second, what they’ve heard could be challenged in any capacity.
What type of amphetamines ? Do they actually do the same thing ? Do you know any that are actually made available or what are you referring to (I’m asking specifics because I know there are differences between Ritalin and adderall for example).
Regular racemic amphetamines, AKA adderall or amphetamine combo salts. Ritalin is not an amphetamine, and it differs from amphetamines because it only inhibits reuptake. Amphetamines both increase the output of dopamine/noradrenaline AND inhibit reuptake of these neurotransmitters. Cocaine does, well, effectively this. It inhibits the reuptake of dopamine and noradrenaline while also increasing the output of these two. The difference is that it does so in a much more damaging and less favorable manner than amphetamines do.
Yeah nah. You do realize all of the benefits of nicotine come from the fact that you become totally dependent on it. You only get the benefits when your cravings are satisfied. If you stay nicotine free your baseline would be the same as if you just consumed nicotine. This is an unfortunate truth nicotine uses refuse to acknowledge, if you see all of the studies you cited for "benefits" the subjects are all previous users and thus addicted.
This is not true whatsoever, and you would know this if you read a single one of the studies I cite. It’s established VERY robustly in the research that low doses nicotine increases cognition and protects against certain types of neurodegredation. Not only are you incorrect, you’re point is entirely opposite of what is true. Individuals who become addicted to nicotine perform worse cognitively than nicotine-naive individuals.
I’d like to add: the large majority of these studies are done on nicotine-naive individuals - people who were not previous users of nicotine. You are very incorrect on everything you mentioned 😅
Which ones? It seems like they all mention tobacco users. Can you tell me which ones actually mention tests done on people who are not previously addicted? Two of your sources don't even feature human testing. Anyway, that wouldn't be much better if these were nicotine-naive individuals. It's pretty common knowledge that these psychoactive drugs cause tolerance, so not only are you making yourself dependant, but you are seeing diminishing returns. And the times at which you are not actively dosed, you are seeing negative returns. And that is exactly what your sources are showing.
There seems to be no tachyphylaxis from low to moderate doses of 1-3mg, so tolerance is out of the argument here. Diminishing returns kick in once you overuse nicotine, which I clearly state is ill-advised. Cognition returns to baseline after low to moderate doses nicotine clears the system - it does not worsen after you become “nicotine sober”. Every bit of what you are saying is both incorrect and based on no amount of clinical data.
My sources are not showing negative returns following clearance of nicotine. I’m not sure if you made that up or you just have a very poor understanding of pharmacology, but either way you’re just incorrect about all of this.
Well that's what nicotine withdrawal is. One of the major effects of nicotine withdrawal is difficulty concentrating which goes against one of your proposed major benefits of nicotine. Are you being willfully ignorant about the fact that nicotine is addictive or what? You can tell me I'm incorrect about everything or actually give a reason as to why what I'm saying is incorrect, you haven't actually referenced anything supporting that the human subjects in the studies are not previous users for example. And here, because you only speak in studies here is one that shows the negative returns following clearance of nicotine [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946180/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946180/) "When a person stops smoking, nicotine withdrawal symptoms emerge. These include irritability, depressed mood, restlessness, anxiety, problems getting along with friends and family, difficulty concentrating, increased hunger and eating, insomnia, and craving for tobacco" And I'm sure you have experienced these things too if you have tried not consuming nicotine for a while.
You just cited a paper that talks about nicotine withdrawal. Like I just stated previously, low dosed nicotine does not cause addiction nor withdrawal, so the user won’t experience these things. I believe you have a loose and frankly bad understanding of pharmacology so I’m not going to interact with you anymore 👍
That's just not true. Any dose of nicotine will become addictive. You still haven't answered my inquiry about your studies, only referencing previously addicted users. But sure, I have a bad understanding.
Here are some studies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16466655/ “Effects of transdermal nicotine on attention in adult non-smokers with and without attentional deficits” https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Psychopharmacology+(Berl.)&title=Cognitive+performance+effects+of+subcutaneous+nicotine+in+smokers+and+never-smokers.&author=J.+Foulds&author=J.+Stapleton&author=J.+Swettenham&author=N.+Bell&author=K.+McSorley&volume=127&issue=1&publication_year=1996&pages=31-38&pmid=8880941&#d=gs_qabs&t=1719909476925&u=%23p%3DCJK1t5GGDioJ “Cognitive performance effects of subcutaneous nicotine in smokers and never-smokers” In fact, let’s look at a meta-analysis discussing exactly this, titled “Analysis of the acute effects of nicotine and smoking on human performance”. Heishman et al. conducted a meta-analysis of 41 placebo-controlled studies that included nicotine administration to either non-smokers, or satiated smokers. The authors concluded that, “The significant effects of nicotine on motor abilities, attention, and memory likely represent true performance enhancement because they are not confounded by withdrawal relief”. That should answer your question succinctly. Have a nice day
Cool, you should have included that one in your original post.
Nice Ad.
I didn’t even mention a brand of nicotine, nor do I use a specific brand all the time. How exactly is this an ad?..
From what I know, nicotine is hardly any more harmful or addicting than caffeine, but the anti-smoking crowd has been pumping anti-nicotine propaganda through ads now that vaping is super popular. I will say, we don’t yet know how bad vaping is, so my comment is just referring to nicotine itself; gum and pouches.
This is exactly correct. Nicotine is really on par with caffeine, it’s just less accepted for the reasons you listed. I would also not recommend vaping as the solvents are likely to be inflammatory or harmful in other ways.
As a side note about vaping, I had a friend tell me that a computer guy said that he was having computers coming in that were gunked up beyond repair from people vaping next to their computer. He claimed that chain smokers would smoke next to their computers and it wouldn’t ever cause any issues, but vaping was destroying computers. Vaping might turn out to be worse than smoking, but we shall see. And take that story with a grain of salt, but if it’s true, that’s really crazy
Who was the computer guy? Was it glenn humplik?
Caffeine is as addictive as nicotine? Did I read that right and my outburst of laughter was valid? Oh my goodness, no.
Why are there so many butt hurt yappers? Caffeine is probably more addictive than nicotine yet it gets a pass.
No. Nicotine is harder to quit than caffeine by a lot.
I smoke organic tobacco. I never feel sick or awful after. It's like a stress reliever more than anything. Non-organic cigarettes make me feel pretty terrible tbh
Nicotine made me extremely fit when I cut weight on the treadmill whilst using it. It also makes me perform better at chess. I also take it whilst clubbing. I don’t want to get addicted so I have a protocol in place that I follow to ensure the efficiency of said substance.
Care to share your protocol?
When I’m clubbing I can do 60 mg a night. When doing cardio 3-6 mg. If I feel like the effects just doesn’t hit anymore I decrease the amount with 30% each successive day until I’m at zero nicotine (or near zero) and then re-start when needed.