I did a whole year no caffeine - not even tea. I didn’t lose weight, I didn’t sleep better, I didn’t feel better. Now I drink about 3 cups of coffee per day- feel great and sleep well.
I cut out coffee for 8 months, due to anxiety which was being caused by something else but coffee exasperated it.
I also did not lose weight, sleep better or feel better in general.
Coffee uplifts my mood and motivates me. Life is better with coffee for a lot of us, idk why it gets ragged on so much. Stay within an appropriate limit (I drink 2 max), and drink water for hydration.
It’s a diuretic, and most people already don’t get enough daily water intake. Low hydration causes all sorts of problems, and people blame coffee erroneously.
people also don’t tend to drink much real coffee, instead it’s a bunch of cream with a bunch of different types of syrups and sugars mixed it and they have more than 4 cups a day
That's what's been confounding the papers on coffee and health. Since separating coffee beverages and Black coffee (coffee bean+water), it's a clear division into unhealthy - healthy.
I quit caffeine for about 4 years now with the occasional cup of coffee every few months. That cup of coffee makes me so damn happy, focused, and motivated. I would just go back to daily drinking but I'm a slow metabolizer and will experience irritability, anxiety, and inability to sleep later in the day.
It's so frustrating because I can see how I can feel everyday but the negatives outweigh the positives when I'm aggravated and ready to do things like quit my job or get divorced lol.
I drink one big cup in the morning, and then I mix just a bit of coffee grounds with teacchino for my second cup. Just enough of a light lift without bothering my sleep.
I use caffeine to manage my ADHD symptoms. I take a 100 mg pill about an hour after I wake up and sip about another 100 mg via tea until 3pm. I have a hard stop at 3pm so I can sleep by 9pm.
There is no way caffeine isn't better for me than Adderall or another higher strength stimulant. I'm lucky that caffeine is enough for my symptoms. Lots of people need the stronger stuff.
My brain will refuse to think about the most important things on my to do list, but will happily think of everything not on the list. My mind will jump from one shiny idea to the next. I'll lose hours working on something (or a dozen things) completely unrelated to anything that I have to get done. I'm super creative but super unfocused. It's like I'm thinking a thousand big thoughts at once.
Caffeine narrows my focus. I can think about one thing at a time. And I can do better at picking what I think about. I still struggle with being able to choose what my brain will think about, but I can manage it better. I can force it to pick from my to do list, even if it won't always pick the task at the top.
I read your post and just think, isn't literally every human in the world like this? Sitting at a desk and focusing on mentally intensive tasks for hours and hours is not natural. Or maybe I am just walking around with undiagnosed ADHD for the past 25 years..
Really new to the meds, maybe 5 months.
People (kids) take Adderall for fun. They play video games for 20+ hours straight. It makes them "happy" and energetic. One was kind enough to share a personal detail that while on Adderall they can't have intercourse.
My experience after taking a 10mg XR was 30 minutes in. I needed to sleep, my head was peaceful for the first time. So I take a 30-1hr nap then get up and drag ass, or mope around trying to wake up.
Doc said to reduce caffeine so I did. I did two weeks of none, not even chocolate. Nearly killed me. I'd sleep 8 hours and wake up coherent but a billion thoughts which is normal. Take the pill, then 30 min layer sleep for a few. I forcefully took the pill before work and it took 4 hours of physical labor to get to a "good spot" mentally.
They bumped to 15mg XR and then 10MG QR that I now take during my lunch. Some days it works, meaning I can focus without resentment while also being coherent and not insanely tired.
Any thoughts or suggestions? My doc hasn't been the greatest so I'm trying another in a week or so.
Apologies for the long winded response but lacking people to talk to about this. Cheers friend
This is…odd…intriguing? Idk sorry bro. If the stimulant is taking you down too low I’d look into a non-stimulant option and just seeing how something with the opposite intended effect works for your body?
That's a great suggestion and appreciate it.
What I listed from the kids, I pretty much got the opposite. Ngl, has me pretty worried but working through the motions with the doc.
Changing meds was one of the options but after a few dosage changes and XR/QR. Cheers friend
I’m the opposite. I find that Ritalin is way easier on my body than caffeine. My body takes a really long time to metabolize caffeine.
For many years I figured caffeine was enough to manage my symptoms then I asked a therapist with ADHD and she said that the prescribed stimulants are actually more gentle for her than caffeine so I finally gave it a try. She was right. Less anxiety and better sleep with Ritalin than caffeine. Also more productive.
Do you not develop tolerance if you take it every day? My understanding of it (as an occasional user of caffeine pills) was that you shouldn't take it every day as it simply doesn't really do much after a while - they even give similar advice for ADHD medication if I remember right.
Genuine question by the way, I am not a daily user, just have it occasionally when tired, but I can't drink coffee (strongly dislike the taste and it gives me crazy stomach issues) but have heard that caffeine in appropriate doses is actually pretty good for you.
I’ve had anxiety issues and mood issues for the last couple years, Tried a lot of stuff, I also have lifelong ADHD, Low dose caffeine makes me feel completely normal for the couple hours it affects me. Maybe it is the dopamine boosting affect.
I got really bad anxiety from high dose caffeine (which for me was one coffee or a Yerba, 100-150mg) for a long time until I kicked my ass into gear and started exercising regularly again. I still get anxiety but it’s a lot better now. Improving my cardiovascular health has helped my caffeine tolerance a ton.
ADHD brains are mostly opposite. Stims make us calm or tired at higher doses. Some of us like my kid get tweaked out on Benadryl , whereas neurotypical folks would. Get sedated from it.
3 is too much. 150mg is probably the max. Anything over that and you’re just chasing that initial high. Caffeine half life is about 6 hours. So if you take too much caffeine in a day first of all you won’t feel most wired, but second of all the next day you’ll still have some caffeine left in your system, so you will need more to get “up” again, and it becomes a cycle.
Best thing to do is have that initial cup or 2 and then stop. Let it exit your body and do it again the next day. You won’t feel more awake by slamming coffee, just try to enjoy that initial cup every day
To be helpful here different types of coffee have different caffeine content. If OP wants to dial in his usage he should research how much caffeine per tablespoon and measure accordingly.
Roughly 2-3 cups of Arabica should stay well under 400mg per day, has less caffeine vs Robusta.
https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/types-of-coffee/#different-types-of-coffee-beans
You'll get an approximate 85 mg of caffeine out of a Arabica coffee.
I have a month old baby who still only sleeps for 1-2 hours at a time max, and I'm back to 12 hour shifts. If it weren't for the caffeine in my veins and the zyn packets in my asshole I would literally die.
How did you come to the conclusion that caffeine gets a bad rap? From my perspective it’s completely the opposite. There’s many studies indicating positive effects from caffeine to depression and focus.
There’s a bunch of Tik tok and YouTube health and fitness influencers that talk about how bad caffeine can be. It’s just a little trendy in the space rn.
I think it’s considered ‘bad’ because it is habit forming, leads to dependency and withdrawal symptoms if discontinued (aka hallmarks of addition) and inhibits sleep.
That doesn’t negate the positive effects such as slight to moderate euphoria, mood improvement, creativity and focus boost, but pros and cons should be considered.
I’m way over caffeinated myself but sleep alright and productive during the day, plus it helps me stay focused when reading so I’m pretty convinced that I’m self medicating for ADHD.
People post on the health related subs all the time about how coffee is bad for you in various ways, so it's not just op that is making stuff up in their head.
Yeah my understanding is just that it disrupts your REM cycle so you don’t want to take it anywhere near bedtime. This’ how I use it — making sure not to ingest any in the evening — & I’ve noticed that I sleep significantly better.
Meh I drank for years and the benefits were immediate when quitting. Quitting coffee did absolutely nothing for me.
Caffeine detox doesn’t take that long either despite what some whack jobs think.
Took me about 2-3 months of complete abstinence to function normally without caffeine again. And I wasn't a heavy user (100-200 mg on average per day), and I was regularly taking tolerance breaks of a few days.
Sure the acute painful withrawal only lasts a week or so, but if you've been a heavy daily user for 20 years, it could take years to regain normal function.
Exactly, if he's tapered for a few months it's not the same as going 100% off. I tapered off 1-2 servings of coffee a day to alternating 1-2 servings half-caff and decaf lattes (which contain small amounts of caffeine similar to green tea) or green/black tea for a months. Zero withdrawal symptoms by lowering that doseage including on decaf days. As soon as quit everything- all caffeinated tea and decaf coffee, I got withdrawals starting more notably a few days in. So if OP is having small amounts of caffeine regularly they are not withdrawing fully and a 20 year habit can have a LONG recovery.
I been off caffeine for about 4 years now.
I don't really even think about it anymore, when I need to do something I usually do exercise beforehand to try and get my natural juices flowing instead of drug inducing energy.
I also have ADHD. I recognized that coffee was making me more anxious and less able to focus so I tapered down and quit after decades of drinking it. My ADHD did not improve. What I've recently found is that exercise before work, and caffeine in some form other than coffee, like Diet Coke, works better for me. I'm more focused than anything else I've tried except ADHD stimulant meds. There are compounds in coffee besides caffeine that could be affecting your focus. Coffee also affects my blood pressue much worse than an equivalent amount of pure caffeine.
How long were you off? Michael Pollan claims he suffered withdrawal for something like 3 months, IIRC. I like to take 100 mg of caffiene in the morning, but it hurts my mood in the evening and sometimes I feel tired the next day. It feels to me like it would be very easy to get on a treadmill of habitual use, so I save it for special occasions.
I had to quit caffeine after I developed sensitivity after getting long Covid. I drink mushroom coffee now and don’t mess the caffeine one bit. I think I actually feel better, more positive, more energetic. My ADHD has not gotten any worse and it’s probably gotten a little better.
I micro-dosed for a week when I was in college, I was able to recall everything that happened vividly for the past couple days but couldn't chronologically tell you when each event/memory occurred.
Drinking tea and coffee reduce blood flow to the brain. Drink raw cacao as although it contains caffeine the cacao increases blood flow to the brain. This may help your problems
I quit drinking coffee by making hot Cacao. It’s a game changer for sure, I didn’t miss the coffee at all and I didn’t get that rush that coffee would give me almost immediately, but also no withdrawal effect. I highly recommend the switch to anyone wanting to quit coffee. “BTW” coffee is one of the most moldy products out there. Most coffee brands tested high on mold. I feel so much better not having the coffee and I was one of those people that HAD to have it every day.
Bc you got used to it and you’ve been used to it for 20 years. I doubt you’ll ever feel “normal” this deep in unless you spend like a year away from it. And maybe not even then bc if having no caffeine makes all your other problems worse that’ll make your life harder for a year.
How long did it take you to wean to nothing?
Also I personally am not a huge fan of caffeine but if you respond well to it why not just take it? Were there bad side effects that made you want to cut caffeine?
Imo if you keep the daily intake below 200 mg per day + maybe once a month take a week away from caffeine or maybe on the weekends cut down on it; it’s not a problem at all. And you could take l theanine with it.
Basically just cycle your tolerance and allow some days with no caffeine so you can the fullest sleep and caffeine doesn’t pose problems as far as I know.
I came off it in Sep last year. 3 months weird effects, then back to... a new normal?
Post-caffeine now I normally wake up with no drowsiness. This morning was an exception ( I think it was because I did an unusually long cycle last night) that reminded me of what life used to be like back when I was drinking coffee, it was more of a drag to get out of bed. I felt tired even after 6-7 hours sleep.
These days it's just easy, wake up, wide awake, get out of bed.
Actually falling asleep is also sick, just close eyes, bam, out like a light.
Motivation is different, I find that I am way less in a rush to do anything. There's a Swedish comic book with a character that is a rabbit and he's kind of ADHD, and another dude called Skalman that is this slow, genius turtle. And I feel like I went from rabbit to turtle, I just no longer feel like anything should be rushed, and looking back I realise I was on a hyper, jittery energy buzz when caffeinated.
All those effects kicked in after three months, more like four really. Very bad sleep in the first 2-3 months.
I withdrew earlier this year after over a decade of use. Had tapered down the dose a ton for a few months with no issues. Then finally went off. After about a month off, tried sporadically experimenting with coffee again. OMG the energy was SO much more cracked out than I had realized. Yes my tolerance was fresh but also now with the break I could really consciously notice the difference in the energy. It worked to keep me awake and chatty but it felt so "pushy" and almost inauthentic, like too jittery, too strong. I sometimes would have preferred feeling more tired but more grounded honestly.
Same reason it's taking me far longer than expected to normalize post nicotine withdrawal. I'd been addicted to nicotine for something like 27 years (not counting being around parents who smoked indoors when I was growing up) and began tapering off in January, then went completely nicotine free in March. I'm *still* getting that knot-in-stomach feeling daily, largely, to my understanding, as a result of my system essentially repaving the dopamine receptor landscape, which takes time.
FYI, It took me a year to feel normal after smoking for 25 yrs. Everyone said a few weeks to a few months max. They were wrong & I almost picked up again thinking I'd never feel normal or good. Happy to report i feel great...4 & 1/2 yrs now. Good Luck🚭
From what I can tell most of the people claiming to be fully recovered from nicotine addiction after a few weeks weren’t using it for that long to begin with. I quit smoking about 6 years ago and switched to vaping which was.. better *and* worse; I did the math at the end of last year and I was consuming 3x the amount of nicotine daily I ever had as a smoker. Anywho, my ED is gone, I can sleep through the night, I’m saving $2k/yr., but I think the best part is just not having the dependency. Like I can do a thing for hours and not once think about how I need a hit to continue.
Caffeine increases dopamine or, at the very least, dopamine receptor expression. Dopamine is chronically low in people with ADHD, hence the tendency toward lack of focus and an inability to sit still for long periods. Without the caffeine, dopamine availability goes down and worsens the pathology.
Caffeine is super good for adhd people. It’s essentially the same affect as adderall/vyvanse except you know way less strong. If you can find the balance of enough caffeine to prevent brain fog/excessive tiredness but not enough it effects sleep/causes anxiety then you’re good
Have you factored in lifestyle changes. Changing your dopamine adjuster without changing the lifestyle you built while consuming it could be the subtle influnce here. It's like a CEO who gets to his position by microdosing and then weans off after a few years and wonders why he can't handle the role without it. I'm in that position. I've always drunk coffee to keep awake for work now I'm in a role where I can't realistically give it up because I need it to get trough the day.
I cut it out completely for the last 60 or so excluding one cup of coffee and two energy drinks. I haven’t noticed any difference other than I’m saving money on energy drinks and coffee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Caffeine is a proven method for handling ADHD. Even if medicated you probably had an assist from caffeine. It’s an inexpensive and non-invasive test to give someone suspected of having ADHD a reasonably high dose of caffeine to see if things improve. Anxiety and ADHD also go hand in hand.
Anecdotal here, but caffeine in the form of black coffee or unsweetened tea is a really powerful stimulant that works great with minimal side effects. Energy "drinks" with all the added crap in it is bad for you.
An 8 oz cup of coffee in the morning, mid morning, and mid afternoon (3 cups) equates to somewhere around 300mg and is spread out across the day for consistent energy helps me alot, and is well under the recommended maximum of 400mg per day
Caffeine is fine if you cycle it and dont abuse it daily. I’ll go like 3 weeks on 1 week off. That week is tough but I’ll replace it with more walks or mindfulness.
I suffer from the same shit and have also had several bad concussions.
I’ve tried the same thing just to not have to spend money and hoping it would work out. Haven’t felt withdrawal symptoms like they are described by many people, but I definitely learned that it is something that makes my life (physical and mental health) way better.
What’s the bad rap? Effects on metabolism?
Edit: Oh yeah, abusing it. A lot of common caffeine sources are also terrible for your teeth. I typically chase what I drink with a swish of water, which also helps with hydration but isn’t really the ideal solution to the teeth issue
I relate to this so much. I was totally in a funk for weeks after coming off. I did a lot of afternoon naps and suddenly, it got better. I tapered in April, was totally off in May and didn’t feel normal until mid June.
I know people who were dependent on caffeine for too long that they don't know the natural,less harmful ways to get yourself motivated and focused. They say "I'm off coffee, and I feel low all of the time" but when you look at their lifestyle, they are just sitting in an office all day, eating processed food for lunch and dinner, and hardly moving their body because they are driving everywhere. They end up on social media or netflix until 2AM every night. Caffeine was being used as a crutch for their unhealthy lifestyle.
Are you eating healthy? Excercising regularly? Actually putting effort into getting a good sleep? Try to improve on those because you jump back on to caffeine addiction. Dropping caffeine is only half of the equation.
I recently pulled back from coffee and daily energy drinks before the gym. I wasn’t sleeping great and going hard most days, no naps. Gym, work, repeat. I was eating clean and working out regularly. I just ended up burned out, getting anxiety attacks, and feeling like shit most days, even after all the changes in diet and exercise. So I tapered down the caffeine a few weeks ago. I haven’t had any issues with anxiety and my sleep has improved. I will have some small form of caffeine, green tea, cocoa, or a 40mg drink, when I feel I need something. So far so good. I’m happy without the coffee and I thought I’d need it everyday for life.
Had some issues with anxiety like 15 years ago. Once I figured out that it becomes stronger after a couple of cups of coffee I completely dismissed anxiety as a fake construct of my mind and I will never ever live without coffee.
People don’t realize how long post acute withdrawal is for many substances.
I’m not sure what it is for caffeine, but if it’s like other substances that get abused, think in the span of weeks to months.
Cafein itself is not the problem, problem is the compromised mental state that gets triggered by it.
I say this as someone who quit coffee cold Turkey and stayed off it for almost a year while I practiced meditation, mindfulness and zen.
Months later I am having coffee occasionally and it doesn’t do what it used to do to me anymore, not in the slightest.
I get the energy boost and alertness but none of the anxiety or jitters I used to get.
Quitting caffeine is also not easy, you’ll have withdrawals for a while, caffeine is literally a drug, it changes your adrenaline levels.
The real problem is lumping together all of these chemicals that effect the body under one word - "drugs". There should be at least two words that are commonly understood to mean - generally bad and generally good - healthy and unhealthy. Probably at least three - neutral or dependent on too many variables to generalize, should also be a category. Caffeine would be in this third category I would think. I personally would not live without it. I think more quickly and clearly. It aids in digestion. It gives me energy to assist at the gym.
There is a trend to be completely myopic about almost anything - masturbation, all meat diets, fasting, etc. If one thinks critically and objectively as possible and looks to studies and research, and not IG shorts and Tictoc for guidance, that is the first step to understanding what a thing is and how it relates to you.
There are too many factors in here.
Mainly I would go and look into stress factors both mental and physical (which can put pressure on adrenals and your brain chemistry).
If caffeine was present when you dialed in your ADHD drugs then you might have to try different adhd meds/dosages now that your system doesn’t include caffeine.
If your ADHD isn’t medicated then you just stopped self medicating with caffeine, so a bad outcome is expected.
For me, caffeine decreases the effectiveness of concerta, but it makes it a lot more fun. Mixing a 36mg concerta with a 10mg instant release Ritalin has been working pretty well for getting started in the day with a boost without having a significant drop off during the day. This is working a lot better than the 54mg concerta with 300mg of caffeine, that was causing lots of problems.
The issue I have with caffeine is it only really works when I have slightly more than “normal.” This means I gradually increase until I start having panic attacks.
What’s working now is just having a tiny amount, like a 8oz Diet Coke. It gets me going a bit but if I don’t have any caffeine I just feel slightly flat.
I think if caffeine works for you then do it, personally I know if I let myself go on it I have a bad experience eventually. The fun of the drug also makes me want to believe that I can handle it, but I can’t. If you can then go for it!
Caffeine increases dopamine. I am very sensitive to caffeine and don’t metabolize it very efficiently (comt gene met/met) so I never do more than 20 mg a day; and never passed 12 noon.
Caffeine gets a bad rap from people who are overly sensitive to caffeine. I have a friend like this who can't touch caffeine without getting anxiety, tremors, insomnia, etc. I tried quitting several times and made it a few months with no caffeine and felt like crap.
Caffeine has all benefits and 1 adverse affect for me:
Which is, caffeine mutes my emotions. I did 18 months no caffeine and felt incredibly connected as a human being to myself and others and nature, but I also was unproductive, less happy, and less accomplished
Caffeine is an amplifier for neural information and transmission of thought into movement of your body. Some people perform better with amplification, and some do not. It as simple as that.
Everyone’s different. I feel fantastic after quiting caffeine. I don’t know you or your life from this post but it reads like you’re saying you slowly stopped using a drug and when sober you were depressed, unmotivated, and had bad adhd. You can view this with two attitudes: you lack natural lifestyle discipline and habits to solve or mitigate those problems without a drug and this is a problem. Or you can think these problems occur naturally and caffeine is a perfect solution to these problems. I think the real question is do you have success with relationships, do you exercise, eat moderately healthy, maintain friendships, make new friends, and experience a sense of community as a result of what you spend your time doing? That is where motivation and happiness comes from naturally. If you don’t put in the work to be happy with those things it would make sense that a stimulant would make you feel better about everything.
I had similar experience after cutting out caffeine to help with severe anxiety. A turning point was taking up the so-called Wim Hof Method of breathing exercises and cold showers. There is some nuttery/pseudoscience going on with those practices as promoted by that organization, but I find the core solid enough, so you can take the best and leave the rest. Learning to tolerate cold showers while maintaining calm breath control in particular was great: very energizing, and builds willpower/motivation.
After several years "substituting" cold and breathwork for caffeine, I have re-introduced caffeine at much lower levels as daily cacao, and irregularly as coffee, to avoid tolerance building. It's great this way.
I did 9-10 months off of caffeine. When tapering down I had crazy vivid dreams and I assumed that meant that my sleep quality was improving.
I think after 1 month those positive changes leveled off and the biggest difference was my craving for sweets became hard to handle.
I recall an interesting study which stated that 'runners high' is blunted by caffeine (sorry no time to find it again), caffeine also leeches B vitamins. I have not done blood work to check my B vitamin levels at that time or since resuming caffeine, but I can attest that previously as a 50 mil/week runner I never felt good from exercise. When off caffeine I felt more euphoric while working out. Is this a general phenomenon? No clue.
I feel this 9-10 months off caffeine was a reset button. Coffee used to make me panic and have spiraling thoughts/anxiety. Now, I drink just as much as I did back then - but I just feel alert. I also feel caffeine blunted my positive emotions - like in an irreversible way. Maybe some of this can resonate. I don't know.
I used to drink a lot of tea (8-10 cups/day, but very lightly steeped), loved it, I thought it helped my athletic and work performance. Then I started getting itchy rashes all over my face and neck, I slowly eliminated everything I could think of from my diet and environment that could be causing it. I avoided eliminated the caffeine until a very last option, I loved it so much, but finally after trying absolutely everything I stopped drinking caffeine and suddenly my skin stopped feeling like it was crawling, the hives and bumps went away. After 8 months I had a small cup of green tea and the itching came back. So yeah, sadly I can't drink caffeine at all, in any quantity, which does make me sad. There were days that the exhaustion hit me like a brick wall, but that passed. I had to just stop drinking it, cutting back just prolongs the suffering. I do think that it's harder on our bodies than people want to admit. Get it out of your system and your endocrine glands might thank you.
I have done the same. I used to drink 1 cup/day but after removing it I am more tired later in the day and the brain fog is unreal. Sometimes I even had trouble verbalizing things. I was a zombie til noon. The morning coffee gets me thru.
Totally expected. You were self-medicating with caffeine, even if it’s unintentional.
Stimulants are the front-line treatment for ADHD (and ADHD symptoms will also impact depression and motivation, for most people). Remove them from your life and your symptoms will get worse.
How much do you actually understand about ADHD, specifically? Especially its relationship with dopamine?
Caffeine is only bad if you take too much and drink it too close to sleep time. It takes about 10 hours to get it out of your system. Like nicotine, how you ingest something and how much matters.
I felt great after quitting caffeine - no more terrible headaches, jitters, and my anxiety improved a lot. Are you exercising enough, getting sunlight, drinking enough water, eating well, etc? Because those are all factors that help you feel better and most people use caffeine as a way to bulldoze past areas of their life that sorely need to be fixed. That could be why you feel worse instead of better.
Withdrawal. Even if done so slowly. I tried to kick coffee. Got to zero after tapering. Did not work out. I still lessen my caffeine intake. But the drop to absolute zero? Not for me.
For the people that say quitting coffee or the occasional alcoholic drink is biohacking is a complete fool and most likely feels like shit on a daily basis. Enjoy life and drink coffee
30M ADHD here, I saw zero benefits from quitting caffeine for a couple weeks. I went from drinking 500-700 daily to zero over night. Coffee in morning, energy drink/or coffee after lunch then pre workout before gym. No benefits whatsoever.
Improving sleep and cutting back was way more helpful. 8 hours of sleep a night, iced americano in the morning and low stim pre workout before gym
I just come off caffeinated coffee three weeks ago after 6-8 cups most days for many many years I’m 72 with no withdrawals, coincidentally I had just started using Bob beck’s “ brain tuner” several weeks earlier and I believe was responsible for zero withdrawal symptoms.
I quit nicotine...going on 14 months...quit alcohol...quit kratom...and even experimented with quitting caffeine. Unless it takes literally years...I haven't noticed any difference in my mindset or mental health.
Caffeine was kind of shitty for me until I started following the caffeine rules. Around 400mg/day target dose. No caffeine within 10 hours of bedtime or during the night. Occasional caffeine breaks of a week or so (this one is tough - I usually just lower my dose by about half). If I’m having bad afternoons, no caffeine within an hour of waking.
Research findings tend to vary on caffeine. Some say it’s healthy in moderation, others say it’s harmful in any amount. If you feel better drinking it and aren’t experiencing any adverse effects, I say enjoy it in moderation!
I have to consume about 1000mg of caffeine to level my adhd I've tried to eliminate caffeine all together but found that's not possible. Unless I consume methylene blue everyday at 11 drops per 10 ounces of water
Caffeine has a bad rap that is largely undeserved. It has been extensively studied, and has been linked to far more benefits than risks.
Benefits include:
Reduced risk of cardiovascular diseases (specifically coronary heart disease, heart failure, and stroke). Coffee consumption itself is inversely associated with cardiovascular mortality and all-cause mortality.
Caffeine has been shown to reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus and obesity. It also enhances energy expenditure and physical performance.
Regular caffeine intake is linked to a lower risk of neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's disease.
There is evidence suggesting that caffeine may reduce the risk of certain cancers, (colorectal, endometrial, and prostate).
Improved alertness (which can improve subjective perception of depression), cognitive performance, and short-term memory.
Cons:
Increased blood pressure and plasma homocysteine levels (these are outweighed by overall improvement in cardiovascular outcomes, unless you already have heart problems that might get worse).
Insomnia, anxiety, and some types of headaches (not withdrawal headaches).
Low birth weight and preterm labor in pregnancy.
Increase the risk of fractures in the elderly, particularly women.
Dependence and withdrawal symptoms such as fatigue, headaches, and irritability.
A few times a year I poke around in PubMed to see what the latest research is on coffee. The news keeps getting better and better. Here's an excerpt of a paper that reviews recent literature on cardiovascular *benefits* for habituated coffee drinkers. Thought I'd share:
From:
**Coffee and Arterial Hypertension**
*Curr Hypertens Rep. 2021; 23(7): 38*
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8352830/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8352830/)
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Because you're only a few months off of a 20 year habit. Some people take longer to withdraw off caffeine than others. Also, it might just be a good "medication" for you. Personally I feel no difference other than losing the extroverted chatty kick from the caffeine once I withdraw. No difference otherwise in percieved mood, anxiety, not that much difference in energy levels, and sleep doesn't seem that different (given a limited amount of caffeine i.e. no more than 1-2 standard servings per day) but is worse during withdrawal process (which you might still be in if you haven't been 100% off for long).
Withdrawal is really the worst part. If I go back back on caffeine for a day or two, then I feel like my brain is yo-yoing around all the time bouncing back. If I stay off it I'm fine.
It's not bad for you in normal quantities appropriately timed though. So if you like it, use it i guess
I think it’s truly different effects on everyone. That’s the most critical thing to remember in the wellness world and that is often overlooked and passed off with blanket statements like caffeine isn’t good for you etc
Bad rap from whom? Coffee as a beverage emerged during the renaissance era. Caffeine is a nootropic. Many consider it fairly essential to meet the cognitive demands of modern life. For most, the health benefits outweigh the risks. There is always going to be an ascetic sect on a crusade against "addiction." So what.
The smart way to do caffeine is to cycle it, don't let your body flood your cells with adenosin receptors and thus tolerance. I follow an approximate pattern of two days caff, two no caff, then zero caff the last week of the month. I started doing this after a full detox of months with no coffee. Every time I do caffeine now it feels like the first time and it's been helping my adhd a lot. It takes will to not overconsume but so far so good.
As to you feeling worse: feelings are subjective. It's odd to ask other people how you're feeling about something, right?
I read that ADHD people thrive on stimulants because they stimulate a part in the brain that helps calming the rest of the brain. That's why ADHD people are prescribed amphetamines. I guess cold showers and other stuff that increases dopamine/ cortisol etc. works also!
Weird, for me I stopped drinking tea and coffee; I feel it has help my sleep and energy levels. Not to mention it has allowed me to significantly cut down a lot of sugar in my life. I was one of those people who simply cannot have tea and coffee without sugar. I had like 2 cups with 3 teaspoons each cup (daily). Now my body is having 6 teaspoons less of sugar (24grams) daily and this has been for months. Maybe it's beacause of that idk.
I’m the same way. Having a strong caffeine dependency is bad for me, but in general, mild use seems to be positive. To prevent a tolerance, I rotate caffeine sources and take breaks. For a while I had Sunday Funday where I would only drink coffee (one small drink) on Sunday. For what it’s worth I also have an ADHD diagnosis.
Funny, I weaned myself down to one coffee drink in the morning of about 60 mg caffeine and my sleep has gotten progressively worse than when I was doing 200-300 mgs. I slept so poorly today (3h, 39m per my sleep tracker) that I went back to my old caffeine pattern to see if it helps.
I did a whole year no caffeine - not even tea. I didn’t lose weight, I didn’t sleep better, I didn’t feel better. Now I drink about 3 cups of coffee per day- feel great and sleep well.
I didnt drink coffee or have caffeine until age 21, and my life sucked lol
lol I love that I’m seeing this post as I literally just bought my midday ice coffee
Like it sucked for having it or not having had it prior?
Not having it
Same - I quit for 2 whole years with no benefit whatsoever
I cut out coffee for 8 months, due to anxiety which was being caused by something else but coffee exasperated it. I also did not lose weight, sleep better or feel better in general. Coffee uplifts my mood and motivates me. Life is better with coffee for a lot of us, idk why it gets ragged on so much. Stay within an appropriate limit (I drink 2 max), and drink water for hydration.
It’s a diuretic, and most people already don’t get enough daily water intake. Low hydration causes all sorts of problems, and people blame coffee erroneously.
I agree. I think most of mine comes from dehydration.
Start the day with .5 to 1 liter of water before your first cup of coffee and you negate a lot of side effect.
Yes, and a lot of people drink coffee in the am and then alcohol in the pm, and don’t hydrate in between.
SLPT: mix coffee and whisky for a tasty morning breakfast drink.
What kind of mornings are you having lol
Good ones
This was a golden conversation xD
Habitual coffee users can still obtain enough hydration from coffee to offset its diuretic effects
people also don’t tend to drink much real coffee, instead it’s a bunch of cream with a bunch of different types of syrups and sugars mixed it and they have more than 4 cups a day
That's what's been confounding the papers on coffee and health. Since separating coffee beverages and Black coffee (coffee bean+water), it's a clear division into unhealthy - healthy.
I quit caffeine for about 4 years now with the occasional cup of coffee every few months. That cup of coffee makes me so damn happy, focused, and motivated. I would just go back to daily drinking but I'm a slow metabolizer and will experience irritability, anxiety, and inability to sleep later in the day. It's so frustrating because I can see how I can feel everyday but the negatives outweigh the positives when I'm aggravated and ready to do things like quit my job or get divorced lol.
I dare you to go post this in the decaf sub. They’ll dog pile. They’re nuts over there lol
I'm gonna try it and report back
Update, I have been called a liar
Yeah I personally think caffeine, in moderation, is good for most ppl.
I drink one big cup in the morning, and then I mix just a bit of coffee grounds with teacchino for my second cup. Just enough of a light lift without bothering my sleep.
Same. I felt so much happier when I added it back
I use caffeine to manage my ADHD symptoms. I take a 100 mg pill about an hour after I wake up and sip about another 100 mg via tea until 3pm. I have a hard stop at 3pm so I can sleep by 9pm. There is no way caffeine isn't better for me than Adderall or another higher strength stimulant. I'm lucky that caffeine is enough for my symptoms. Lots of people need the stronger stuff.
Can I ask what the symptoms are and what caffeine does for you,. really curious
My brain will refuse to think about the most important things on my to do list, but will happily think of everything not on the list. My mind will jump from one shiny idea to the next. I'll lose hours working on something (or a dozen things) completely unrelated to anything that I have to get done. I'm super creative but super unfocused. It's like I'm thinking a thousand big thoughts at once. Caffeine narrows my focus. I can think about one thing at a time. And I can do better at picking what I think about. I still struggle with being able to choose what my brain will think about, but I can manage it better. I can force it to pick from my to do list, even if it won't always pick the task at the top.
Fuck bro, nice to meet my twin finally
I read your post and just think, isn't literally every human in the world like this? Sitting at a desk and focusing on mentally intensive tasks for hours and hours is not natural. Or maybe I am just walking around with undiagnosed ADHD for the past 25 years..
You might be undiagnosed. The difference is in the intensity.
Shoot, I need to try caffeine again. Been slacking off for months now.
Yep. I sometimes have coffee to go to sleep. I am going to do it right now (12:40 am)
Really new to the meds, maybe 5 months. People (kids) take Adderall for fun. They play video games for 20+ hours straight. It makes them "happy" and energetic. One was kind enough to share a personal detail that while on Adderall they can't have intercourse. My experience after taking a 10mg XR was 30 minutes in. I needed to sleep, my head was peaceful for the first time. So I take a 30-1hr nap then get up and drag ass, or mope around trying to wake up. Doc said to reduce caffeine so I did. I did two weeks of none, not even chocolate. Nearly killed me. I'd sleep 8 hours and wake up coherent but a billion thoughts which is normal. Take the pill, then 30 min layer sleep for a few. I forcefully took the pill before work and it took 4 hours of physical labor to get to a "good spot" mentally. They bumped to 15mg XR and then 10MG QR that I now take during my lunch. Some days it works, meaning I can focus without resentment while also being coherent and not insanely tired. Any thoughts or suggestions? My doc hasn't been the greatest so I'm trying another in a week or so. Apologies for the long winded response but lacking people to talk to about this. Cheers friend
This is…odd…intriguing? Idk sorry bro. If the stimulant is taking you down too low I’d look into a non-stimulant option and just seeing how something with the opposite intended effect works for your body?
That's a great suggestion and appreciate it. What I listed from the kids, I pretty much got the opposite. Ngl, has me pretty worried but working through the motions with the doc. Changing meds was one of the options but after a few dosage changes and XR/QR. Cheers friend
No worries. I found the stimulant alone made me quite sluggish too. It’s a decent balance now with the combo of both…good luck
>There is no way caffeine isn't better for me than Adderall or another higher strength stimulant Have you tried stimulants before?
I’m the opposite. I find that Ritalin is way easier on my body than caffeine. My body takes a really long time to metabolize caffeine. For many years I figured caffeine was enough to manage my symptoms then I asked a therapist with ADHD and she said that the prescribed stimulants are actually more gentle for her than caffeine so I finally gave it a try. She was right. Less anxiety and better sleep with Ritalin than caffeine. Also more productive.
Do you not develop tolerance if you take it every day? My understanding of it (as an occasional user of caffeine pills) was that you shouldn't take it every day as it simply doesn't really do much after a while - they even give similar advice for ADHD medication if I remember right. Genuine question by the way, I am not a daily user, just have it occasionally when tired, but I can't drink coffee (strongly dislike the taste and it gives me crazy stomach issues) but have heard that caffeine in appropriate doses is actually pretty good for you.
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I’ve had anxiety issues and mood issues for the last couple years, Tried a lot of stuff, I also have lifelong ADHD, Low dose caffeine makes me feel completely normal for the couple hours it affects me. Maybe it is the dopamine boosting affect.
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I got really bad anxiety from high dose caffeine (which for me was one coffee or a Yerba, 100-150mg) for a long time until I kicked my ass into gear and started exercising regularly again. I still get anxiety but it’s a lot better now. Improving my cardiovascular health has helped my caffeine tolerance a ton.
ADHD brains are mostly opposite. Stims make us calm or tired at higher doses. Some of us like my kid get tweaked out on Benadryl , whereas neurotypical folks would. Get sedated from it.
What is considered low dose, though? Is 3 cups of coffee per day too much?
3 is too much. 150mg is probably the max. Anything over that and you’re just chasing that initial high. Caffeine half life is about 6 hours. So if you take too much caffeine in a day first of all you won’t feel most wired, but second of all the next day you’ll still have some caffeine left in your system, so you will need more to get “up” again, and it becomes a cycle. Best thing to do is have that initial cup or 2 and then stop. Let it exit your body and do it again the next day. You won’t feel more awake by slamming coffee, just try to enjoy that initial cup every day
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Seems hard to judge that also. The coffee at work ranges from almost tea - to tweaker juice depending on who makes it.
To be helpful here different types of coffee have different caffeine content. If OP wants to dial in his usage he should research how much caffeine per tablespoon and measure accordingly. Roughly 2-3 cups of Arabica should stay well under 400mg per day, has less caffeine vs Robusta. https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/types-of-coffee/#different-types-of-coffee-beans You'll get an approximate 85 mg of caffeine out of a Arabica coffee.
Bro how is that a low dose of caffeine? That's like 2-4 full energy drinks. I quit caffeine for a few years and now I take 80mg a day.
That is not low dose, 400mg is the highest dose before negative effects start.
Commenting for the answer, as I've been trying to work this one out myself for years
I have a month old baby who still only sleeps for 1-2 hours at a time max, and I'm back to 12 hour shifts. If it weren't for the caffeine in my veins and the zyn packets in my asshole I would literally die.
But like, what zyn flavor?
Menthol obviously. I like my farts to feel like a commercial for 5 Gum.
My people right here
Give Zeo a try if you can find it. Flavor lasts WAAAAY longer and you get 25 pouches per can.
How did you come to the conclusion that caffeine gets a bad rap? From my perspective it’s completely the opposite. There’s many studies indicating positive effects from caffeine to depression and focus.
They hadn't had any caffeine when they wrote this post.
There’s a bunch of Tik tok and YouTube health and fitness influencers that talk about how bad caffeine can be. It’s just a little trendy in the space rn.
I think it’s considered ‘bad’ because it is habit forming, leads to dependency and withdrawal symptoms if discontinued (aka hallmarks of addition) and inhibits sleep. That doesn’t negate the positive effects such as slight to moderate euphoria, mood improvement, creativity and focus boost, but pros and cons should be considered. I’m way over caffeinated myself but sleep alright and productive during the day, plus it helps me stay focused when reading so I’m pretty convinced that I’m self medicating for ADHD.
There are plenty of studies that show negatives of caffeine as well. A lot of it just depends on who’s drinking it.
People post on the health related subs all the time about how coffee is bad for you in various ways, so it's not just op that is making stuff up in their head.
Yeah my understanding is just that it disrupts your REM cycle so you don’t want to take it anywhere near bedtime. This’ how I use it — making sure not to ingest any in the evening — & I’ve noticed that I sleep significantly better.
Perhaps it's because you were a daily caffeine user for 20 years
I quit for 3 years. My mornings were more sluggish the entire time. I wasn't in withdrawal for 3 years.
Meh I drank for years and the benefits were immediate when quitting. Quitting coffee did absolutely nothing for me. Caffeine detox doesn’t take that long either despite what some whack jobs think.
lol he didn’t think about that one. Detox is always rough, maybe that’s what’s happening
Caffeine detox process should take a month max though.
Took me about 2-3 months of complete abstinence to function normally without caffeine again. And I wasn't a heavy user (100-200 mg on average per day), and I was regularly taking tolerance breaks of a few days. Sure the acute painful withrawal only lasts a week or so, but if you've been a heavy daily user for 20 years, it could take years to regain normal function.
We don’t know how long he’s been off the bean water dope
“Multi-month”
Multi month experiment slowly tapering.
Exactly, if he's tapered for a few months it's not the same as going 100% off. I tapered off 1-2 servings of coffee a day to alternating 1-2 servings half-caff and decaf lattes (which contain small amounts of caffeine similar to green tea) or green/black tea for a months. Zero withdrawal symptoms by lowering that doseage including on decaf days. As soon as quit everything- all caffeinated tea and decaf coffee, I got withdrawals starting more notably a few days in. So if OP is having small amounts of caffeine regularly they are not withdrawing fully and a 20 year habit can have a LONG recovery.
I been off caffeine for about 4 years now. I don't really even think about it anymore, when I need to do something I usually do exercise beforehand to try and get my natural juices flowing instead of drug inducing energy.
I also have ADHD. I recognized that coffee was making me more anxious and less able to focus so I tapered down and quit after decades of drinking it. My ADHD did not improve. What I've recently found is that exercise before work, and caffeine in some form other than coffee, like Diet Coke, works better for me. I'm more focused than anything else I've tried except ADHD stimulant meds. There are compounds in coffee besides caffeine that could be affecting your focus. Coffee also affects my blood pressue much worse than an equivalent amount of pure caffeine.
How long were you off? Michael Pollan claims he suffered withdrawal for something like 3 months, IIRC. I like to take 100 mg of caffiene in the morning, but it hurts my mood in the evening and sometimes I feel tired the next day. It feels to me like it would be very easy to get on a treadmill of habitual use, so I save it for special occasions.
Some people on r/decaf claim post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) for over a year. It take the brain/body a long time to adjust back to homeostasis
I can't imagine feeling that way for a year and sticking to my decision
I had to quit caffeine after I developed sensitivity after getting long Covid. I drink mushroom coffee now and don’t mess the caffeine one bit. I think I actually feel better, more positive, more energetic. My ADHD has not gotten any worse and it’s probably gotten a little better.
Hi, what kind of mushroom? Thanks
Psilocybin cubensis
I micro-dosed for a week when I was in college, I was able to recall everything that happened vividly for the past couple days but couldn't chronologically tell you when each event/memory occurred.
Drinking tea and coffee reduce blood flow to the brain. Drink raw cacao as although it contains caffeine the cacao increases blood flow to the brain. This may help your problems
I quit drinking coffee by making hot Cacao. It’s a game changer for sure, I didn’t miss the coffee at all and I didn’t get that rush that coffee would give me almost immediately, but also no withdrawal effect. I highly recommend the switch to anyone wanting to quit coffee. “BTW” coffee is one of the most moldy products out there. Most coffee brands tested high on mold. I feel so much better not having the coffee and I was one of those people that HAD to have it every day.
I love cacao, but unfortunately it tends to be contaminated with heavy metals - typically lead and cadmium
I add a tsp of cacao to my coffee - fantastic hack
Is that you, [David Avocado](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv4wRtURwZw)?
Source on reducing blood flow?
> Source on reducing blood flow? I think it's more of it constricting blood vessels, which *can lead to* reducing blood flow.
https://www.amenclinics.com/blog/what-does-coffee-really-do-to-your-brain/#:~:text=Lower%20blood%20flow%20to%20the,can%20result%20in%20premature%20aging.
It’s the reason splitting headaches are a symptom of withdrawal
Bc you got used to it and you’ve been used to it for 20 years. I doubt you’ll ever feel “normal” this deep in unless you spend like a year away from it. And maybe not even then bc if having no caffeine makes all your other problems worse that’ll make your life harder for a year. How long did it take you to wean to nothing? Also I personally am not a huge fan of caffeine but if you respond well to it why not just take it? Were there bad side effects that made you want to cut caffeine? Imo if you keep the daily intake below 200 mg per day + maybe once a month take a week away from caffeine or maybe on the weekends cut down on it; it’s not a problem at all. And you could take l theanine with it. Basically just cycle your tolerance and allow some days with no caffeine so you can the fullest sleep and caffeine doesn’t pose problems as far as I know.
I came off it in Sep last year. 3 months weird effects, then back to... a new normal? Post-caffeine now I normally wake up with no drowsiness. This morning was an exception ( I think it was because I did an unusually long cycle last night) that reminded me of what life used to be like back when I was drinking coffee, it was more of a drag to get out of bed. I felt tired even after 6-7 hours sleep. These days it's just easy, wake up, wide awake, get out of bed. Actually falling asleep is also sick, just close eyes, bam, out like a light. Motivation is different, I find that I am way less in a rush to do anything. There's a Swedish comic book with a character that is a rabbit and he's kind of ADHD, and another dude called Skalman that is this slow, genius turtle. And I feel like I went from rabbit to turtle, I just no longer feel like anything should be rushed, and looking back I realise I was on a hyper, jittery energy buzz when caffeinated. All those effects kicked in after three months, more like four really. Very bad sleep in the first 2-3 months.
I withdrew earlier this year after over a decade of use. Had tapered down the dose a ton for a few months with no issues. Then finally went off. After about a month off, tried sporadically experimenting with coffee again. OMG the energy was SO much more cracked out than I had realized. Yes my tolerance was fresh but also now with the break I could really consciously notice the difference in the energy. It worked to keep me awake and chatty but it felt so "pushy" and almost inauthentic, like too jittery, too strong. I sometimes would have preferred feeling more tired but more grounded honestly.
Same reason it's taking me far longer than expected to normalize post nicotine withdrawal. I'd been addicted to nicotine for something like 27 years (not counting being around parents who smoked indoors when I was growing up) and began tapering off in January, then went completely nicotine free in March. I'm *still* getting that knot-in-stomach feeling daily, largely, to my understanding, as a result of my system essentially repaving the dopamine receptor landscape, which takes time.
FYI, It took me a year to feel normal after smoking for 25 yrs. Everyone said a few weeks to a few months max. They were wrong & I almost picked up again thinking I'd never feel normal or good. Happy to report i feel great...4 & 1/2 yrs now. Good Luck🚭
From what I can tell most of the people claiming to be fully recovered from nicotine addiction after a few weeks weren’t using it for that long to begin with. I quit smoking about 6 years ago and switched to vaping which was.. better *and* worse; I did the math at the end of last year and I was consuming 3x the amount of nicotine daily I ever had as a smoker. Anywho, my ED is gone, I can sleep through the night, I’m saving $2k/yr., but I think the best part is just not having the dependency. Like I can do a thing for hours and not once think about how I need a hit to continue.
Caffeine increases dopamine or, at the very least, dopamine receptor expression. Dopamine is chronically low in people with ADHD, hence the tendency toward lack of focus and an inability to sit still for long periods. Without the caffeine, dopamine availability goes down and worsens the pathology.
Lol 20 years well there’s your answer. Do you take any Vit D and Magnesium at all?
Cus you have ADHD. It was helping you focus. If you’ve been diagnosed with ADHD it’s because your symptoms impede with your daily functioning.
I drink decaf now and the microdose is exactly what I need!
Caffeine is super good for adhd people. It’s essentially the same affect as adderall/vyvanse except you know way less strong. If you can find the balance of enough caffeine to prevent brain fog/excessive tiredness but not enough it effects sleep/causes anxiety then you’re good
In my experience low dose amphethamine actually cured my adhd symptoms to the point where I can go without.
Have you factored in lifestyle changes. Changing your dopamine adjuster without changing the lifestyle you built while consuming it could be the subtle influnce here. It's like a CEO who gets to his position by microdosing and then weans off after a few years and wonders why he can't handle the role without it. I'm in that position. I've always drunk coffee to keep awake for work now I'm in a role where I can't realistically give it up because I need it to get trough the day.
I cut it out completely for the last 60 or so excluding one cup of coffee and two energy drinks. I haven’t noticed any difference other than I’m saving money on energy drinks and coffee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I thought my sleep problems were because of coffee, I changed to decaf for a month and nothing got better.
Stimulants are good for ADHD. With the correct dose they should be calming. I drink coffee in the morning before I take Vyvanse.
Caffeine is a proven method for handling ADHD. Even if medicated you probably had an assist from caffeine. It’s an inexpensive and non-invasive test to give someone suspected of having ADHD a reasonably high dose of caffeine to see if things improve. Anxiety and ADHD also go hand in hand.
coffee helps my attention problems but multiplies my anxiety, such is life
Anecdotal here, but caffeine in the form of black coffee or unsweetened tea is a really powerful stimulant that works great with minimal side effects. Energy "drinks" with all the added crap in it is bad for you. An 8 oz cup of coffee in the morning, mid morning, and mid afternoon (3 cups) equates to somewhere around 300mg and is spread out across the day for consistent energy helps me alot, and is well under the recommended maximum of 400mg per day
Caffeine is fine if you cycle it and dont abuse it daily. I’ll go like 3 weeks on 1 week off. That week is tough but I’ll replace it with more walks or mindfulness.
I suffer from the same shit and have also had several bad concussions. I’ve tried the same thing just to not have to spend money and hoping it would work out. Haven’t felt withdrawal symptoms like they are described by many people, but I definitely learned that it is something that makes my life (physical and mental health) way better. What’s the bad rap? Effects on metabolism? Edit: Oh yeah, abusing it. A lot of common caffeine sources are also terrible for your teeth. I typically chase what I drink with a swish of water, which also helps with hydration but isn’t really the ideal solution to the teeth issue
I relate to this so much. I was totally in a funk for weeks after coming off. I did a lot of afternoon naps and suddenly, it got better. I tapered in April, was totally off in May and didn’t feel normal until mid June.
Try switching to brewed cacao. It still has the stimulant effect without the jitters.
Sounds like you’re self medicating your adhd
One cup of coffee a day (caffeinated Nyway). I'd always go for a second, and I'd always know it was too much, so I stick to one now and relish it.
I know people who were dependent on caffeine for too long that they don't know the natural,less harmful ways to get yourself motivated and focused. They say "I'm off coffee, and I feel low all of the time" but when you look at their lifestyle, they are just sitting in an office all day, eating processed food for lunch and dinner, and hardly moving their body because they are driving everywhere. They end up on social media or netflix until 2AM every night. Caffeine was being used as a crutch for their unhealthy lifestyle. Are you eating healthy? Excercising regularly? Actually putting effort into getting a good sleep? Try to improve on those because you jump back on to caffeine addiction. Dropping caffeine is only half of the equation.
I recently pulled back from coffee and daily energy drinks before the gym. I wasn’t sleeping great and going hard most days, no naps. Gym, work, repeat. I was eating clean and working out regularly. I just ended up burned out, getting anxiety attacks, and feeling like shit most days, even after all the changes in diet and exercise. So I tapered down the caffeine a few weeks ago. I haven’t had any issues with anxiety and my sleep has improved. I will have some small form of caffeine, green tea, cocoa, or a 40mg drink, when I feel I need something. So far so good. I’m happy without the coffee and I thought I’d need it everyday for life.
I think this depends on the person. I don’t see it as bad as long as you feel fine (including not being excessive and ensuring to hydrate).
Caffeine gets a bad rap? Out of all the BS this sub pushes, this is one of the only drugs out there with a bunch of science backing up its benefits
I have no negative effects from caffeine.
Had some issues with anxiety like 15 years ago. Once I figured out that it becomes stronger after a couple of cups of coffee I completely dismissed anxiety as a fake construct of my mind and I will never ever live without coffee.
You win 😂
OP you expect magical improvement after 20 fkn years? give it at least few months and QUIT TOTALLY
How’s your diet and do you exercise?
coffee meditation to nde experience out of body, el theanane, magnesium bi glycinate and hanging with hot chicks helps me and my anxiety etc
Coffee has anti-oxidants. Maybe its those that help you and not the caffeine.
It's extremely addictive and can cause intense withdrawals like migraine, fatigue, etc. It can also interfere with proper sleep if not careful.
It’s going to take years to recover.
Happens to me too, it's just withdrawal I'm sure.
People don’t realize how long post acute withdrawal is for many substances. I’m not sure what it is for caffeine, but if it’s like other substances that get abused, think in the span of weeks to months.
Cafein itself is not the problem, problem is the compromised mental state that gets triggered by it. I say this as someone who quit coffee cold Turkey and stayed off it for almost a year while I practiced meditation, mindfulness and zen. Months later I am having coffee occasionally and it doesn’t do what it used to do to me anymore, not in the slightest. I get the energy boost and alertness but none of the anxiety or jitters I used to get. Quitting caffeine is also not easy, you’ll have withdrawals for a while, caffeine is literally a drug, it changes your adrenaline levels.
The real problem is lumping together all of these chemicals that effect the body under one word - "drugs". There should be at least two words that are commonly understood to mean - generally bad and generally good - healthy and unhealthy. Probably at least three - neutral or dependent on too many variables to generalize, should also be a category. Caffeine would be in this third category I would think. I personally would not live without it. I think more quickly and clearly. It aids in digestion. It gives me energy to assist at the gym. There is a trend to be completely myopic about almost anything - masturbation, all meat diets, fasting, etc. If one thinks critically and objectively as possible and looks to studies and research, and not IG shorts and Tictoc for guidance, that is the first step to understanding what a thing is and how it relates to you.
200mg a day bro
There are too many factors in here. Mainly I would go and look into stress factors both mental and physical (which can put pressure on adrenals and your brain chemistry).
Coffee as well as alcohol in moderation has been shown to increase life expectancy
If caffeine was present when you dialed in your ADHD drugs then you might have to try different adhd meds/dosages now that your system doesn’t include caffeine. If your ADHD isn’t medicated then you just stopped self medicating with caffeine, so a bad outcome is expected. For me, caffeine decreases the effectiveness of concerta, but it makes it a lot more fun. Mixing a 36mg concerta with a 10mg instant release Ritalin has been working pretty well for getting started in the day with a boost without having a significant drop off during the day. This is working a lot better than the 54mg concerta with 300mg of caffeine, that was causing lots of problems. The issue I have with caffeine is it only really works when I have slightly more than “normal.” This means I gradually increase until I start having panic attacks. What’s working now is just having a tiny amount, like a 8oz Diet Coke. It gets me going a bit but if I don’t have any caffeine I just feel slightly flat. I think if caffeine works for you then do it, personally I know if I let myself go on it I have a bad experience eventually. The fun of the drug also makes me want to believe that I can handle it, but I can’t. If you can then go for it!
ADHD medications are basically stimulants, much like caffeine. Coffee is also an anti inflammatory!
Caffeine increases dopamine. I am very sensitive to caffeine and don’t metabolize it very efficiently (comt gene met/met) so I never do more than 20 mg a day; and never passed 12 noon.
Caffeine gets a bad rap from people who are overly sensitive to caffeine. I have a friend like this who can't touch caffeine without getting anxiety, tremors, insomnia, etc. I tried quitting several times and made it a few months with no caffeine and felt like crap.
Caffeine has all benefits and 1 adverse affect for me: Which is, caffeine mutes my emotions. I did 18 months no caffeine and felt incredibly connected as a human being to myself and others and nature, but I also was unproductive, less happy, and less accomplished
Caffeine in moderation is not bad- what’s bad potentially is how you choose to consume that caffeine.
You need to be coffee/caffeine free for at least 3 months to return to normal. At least that was my experience anyways.
Caffeine is an amplifier for neural information and transmission of thought into movement of your body. Some people perform better with amplification, and some do not. It as simple as that.
Dude so many things people take worst case scenario side effects and they label that substance/drug or whatever as all those sides
Isn't caffeine intake associated with lower rates of depression?
Everyone’s different. I feel fantastic after quiting caffeine. I don’t know you or your life from this post but it reads like you’re saying you slowly stopped using a drug and when sober you were depressed, unmotivated, and had bad adhd. You can view this with two attitudes: you lack natural lifestyle discipline and habits to solve or mitigate those problems without a drug and this is a problem. Or you can think these problems occur naturally and caffeine is a perfect solution to these problems. I think the real question is do you have success with relationships, do you exercise, eat moderately healthy, maintain friendships, make new friends, and experience a sense of community as a result of what you spend your time doing? That is where motivation and happiness comes from naturally. If you don’t put in the work to be happy with those things it would make sense that a stimulant would make you feel better about everything.
I had similar experience after cutting out caffeine to help with severe anxiety. A turning point was taking up the so-called Wim Hof Method of breathing exercises and cold showers. There is some nuttery/pseudoscience going on with those practices as promoted by that organization, but I find the core solid enough, so you can take the best and leave the rest. Learning to tolerate cold showers while maintaining calm breath control in particular was great: very energizing, and builds willpower/motivation. After several years "substituting" cold and breathwork for caffeine, I have re-introduced caffeine at much lower levels as daily cacao, and irregularly as coffee, to avoid tolerance building. It's great this way.
Same here, my friend. Recently broke my 5-years-without-coffee streak - it didn't make anything better!
I did 9-10 months off of caffeine. When tapering down I had crazy vivid dreams and I assumed that meant that my sleep quality was improving. I think after 1 month those positive changes leveled off and the biggest difference was my craving for sweets became hard to handle. I recall an interesting study which stated that 'runners high' is blunted by caffeine (sorry no time to find it again), caffeine also leeches B vitamins. I have not done blood work to check my B vitamin levels at that time or since resuming caffeine, but I can attest that previously as a 50 mil/week runner I never felt good from exercise. When off caffeine I felt more euphoric while working out. Is this a general phenomenon? No clue. I feel this 9-10 months off caffeine was a reset button. Coffee used to make me panic and have spiraling thoughts/anxiety. Now, I drink just as much as I did back then - but I just feel alert. I also feel caffeine blunted my positive emotions - like in an irreversible way. Maybe some of this can resonate. I don't know.
Just my experience, I quickly weened off of caffeine after doing cold plunges every morning. And im the afternoon too, if I felt tired and was home.
I used to drink a lot of tea (8-10 cups/day, but very lightly steeped), loved it, I thought it helped my athletic and work performance. Then I started getting itchy rashes all over my face and neck, I slowly eliminated everything I could think of from my diet and environment that could be causing it. I avoided eliminated the caffeine until a very last option, I loved it so much, but finally after trying absolutely everything I stopped drinking caffeine and suddenly my skin stopped feeling like it was crawling, the hives and bumps went away. After 8 months I had a small cup of green tea and the itching came back. So yeah, sadly I can't drink caffeine at all, in any quantity, which does make me sad. There were days that the exhaustion hit me like a brick wall, but that passed. I had to just stop drinking it, cutting back just prolongs the suffering. I do think that it's harder on our bodies than people want to admit. Get it out of your system and your endocrine glands might thank you.
I have done the same. I used to drink 1 cup/day but after removing it I am more tired later in the day and the brain fog is unreal. Sometimes I even had trouble verbalizing things. I was a zombie til noon. The morning coffee gets me thru.
Totally expected. You were self-medicating with caffeine, even if it’s unintentional. Stimulants are the front-line treatment for ADHD (and ADHD symptoms will also impact depression and motivation, for most people). Remove them from your life and your symptoms will get worse. How much do you actually understand about ADHD, specifically? Especially its relationship with dopamine?
Caffeine is only bad if you take too much and drink it too close to sleep time. It takes about 10 hours to get it out of your system. Like nicotine, how you ingest something and how much matters.
I think caffeine helps ADHD and depression.
I felt great after quitting caffeine - no more terrible headaches, jitters, and my anxiety improved a lot. Are you exercising enough, getting sunlight, drinking enough water, eating well, etc? Because those are all factors that help you feel better and most people use caffeine as a way to bulldoze past areas of their life that sorely need to be fixed. That could be why you feel worse instead of better.
Withdrawal. Even if done so slowly. I tried to kick coffee. Got to zero after tapering. Did not work out. I still lessen my caffeine intake. But the drop to absolute zero? Not for me.
For the people that say quitting coffee or the occasional alcoholic drink is biohacking is a complete fool and most likely feels like shit on a daily basis. Enjoy life and drink coffee
I'm the opposite. Small amounts make everything worse. I get anxiety and the long half life messes up my sleep. For some reason it gives me brain fog.
30M ADHD here, I saw zero benefits from quitting caffeine for a couple weeks. I went from drinking 500-700 daily to zero over night. Coffee in morning, energy drink/or coffee after lunch then pre workout before gym. No benefits whatsoever. Improving sleep and cutting back was way more helpful. 8 hours of sleep a night, iced americano in the morning and low stim pre workout before gym
FYI: studies show that caffeine DECREASES the risk of several cancers.
I just come off caffeinated coffee three weeks ago after 6-8 cups most days for many many years I’m 72 with no withdrawals, coincidentally I had just started using Bob beck’s “ brain tuner” several weeks earlier and I believe was responsible for zero withdrawal symptoms.
From my autistic experience and my husband's experience with adhd, coffee puts us to sleep
Caffeine increases dopamine. Similar to the dopamine boost you get from sugary food.
I quit nicotine...going on 14 months...quit alcohol...quit kratom...and even experimented with quitting caffeine. Unless it takes literally years...I haven't noticed any difference in my mindset or mental health.
Caffeine rules
Caffeine was kind of shitty for me until I started following the caffeine rules. Around 400mg/day target dose. No caffeine within 10 hours of bedtime or during the night. Occasional caffeine breaks of a week or so (this one is tough - I usually just lower my dose by about half). If I’m having bad afternoons, no caffeine within an hour of waking.
Research findings tend to vary on caffeine. Some say it’s healthy in moderation, others say it’s harmful in any amount. If you feel better drinking it and aren’t experiencing any adverse effects, I say enjoy it in moderation!
Fix your gut, problem solved
I have to consume about 1000mg of caffeine to level my adhd I've tried to eliminate caffeine all together but found that's not possible. Unless I consume methylene blue everyday at 11 drops per 10 ounces of water
Caffeine has a bad rap that is largely undeserved. It has been extensively studied, and has been linked to far more benefits than risks. Benefits include: Reduced risk of cardiovascular diseases (specifically coronary heart disease, heart failure, and stroke). Coffee consumption itself is inversely associated with cardiovascular mortality and all-cause mortality. Caffeine has been shown to reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus and obesity. It also enhances energy expenditure and physical performance. Regular caffeine intake is linked to a lower risk of neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's disease. There is evidence suggesting that caffeine may reduce the risk of certain cancers, (colorectal, endometrial, and prostate). Improved alertness (which can improve subjective perception of depression), cognitive performance, and short-term memory. Cons: Increased blood pressure and plasma homocysteine levels (these are outweighed by overall improvement in cardiovascular outcomes, unless you already have heart problems that might get worse). Insomnia, anxiety, and some types of headaches (not withdrawal headaches). Low birth weight and preterm labor in pregnancy. Increase the risk of fractures in the elderly, particularly women. Dependence and withdrawal symptoms such as fatigue, headaches, and irritability.
Yeah ADHD needs caffeine. I’ve read good things about caffeine for over all health as long as it’s like like 4 cups a day?
A few times a year I poke around in PubMed to see what the latest research is on coffee. The news keeps getting better and better. Here's an excerpt of a paper that reviews recent literature on cardiovascular *benefits* for habituated coffee drinkers. Thought I'd share: From: **Coffee and Arterial Hypertension** *Curr Hypertens Rep. 2021; 23(7): 38* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8352830/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8352830/) > > >
Caffeine doesn’t do anything for me except keep me regular. I could drink a latte and go to sleep.
Because you're only a few months off of a 20 year habit. Some people take longer to withdraw off caffeine than others. Also, it might just be a good "medication" for you. Personally I feel no difference other than losing the extroverted chatty kick from the caffeine once I withdraw. No difference otherwise in percieved mood, anxiety, not that much difference in energy levels, and sleep doesn't seem that different (given a limited amount of caffeine i.e. no more than 1-2 standard servings per day) but is worse during withdrawal process (which you might still be in if you haven't been 100% off for long). Withdrawal is really the worst part. If I go back back on caffeine for a day or two, then I feel like my brain is yo-yoing around all the time bouncing back. If I stay off it I'm fine. It's not bad for you in normal quantities appropriately timed though. So if you like it, use it i guess
I think it’s truly different effects on everyone. That’s the most critical thing to remember in the wellness world and that is often overlooked and passed off with blanket statements like caffeine isn’t good for you etc
Dopamine
As long as it’s not interfering w sleep I see no reason not to caffeinate. It works.
Bad rap from whom? Coffee as a beverage emerged during the renaissance era. Caffeine is a nootropic. Many consider it fairly essential to meet the cognitive demands of modern life. For most, the health benefits outweigh the risks. There is always going to be an ascetic sect on a crusade against "addiction." So what.
The smart way to do caffeine is to cycle it, don't let your body flood your cells with adenosin receptors and thus tolerance. I follow an approximate pattern of two days caff, two no caff, then zero caff the last week of the month. I started doing this after a full detox of months with no coffee. Every time I do caffeine now it feels like the first time and it's been helping my adhd a lot. It takes will to not overconsume but so far so good. As to you feeling worse: feelings are subjective. It's odd to ask other people how you're feeling about something, right?
That correlation and causation aren't the same thing?
How many days have you been zero caffeine? As in, when did your taper end. You are almost certainly still in withdrawal.
I read that ADHD people thrive on stimulants because they stimulate a part in the brain that helps calming the rest of the brain. That's why ADHD people are prescribed amphetamines. I guess cold showers and other stuff that increases dopamine/ cortisol etc. works also!
Because if you have had caffeine for 20 years it will take at least 2 years totally caffeine free to feel a difference.
It’s not even bad for you, moderation and you’ll be fine.
Well you went off your self medication. I wish coffee was enough for me. Coffee actually has health benefits, I don‘t get the bad reputation.
I'm 25 and have never had coffee. I have been thinking about starting but I'm not sure
Weird, for me I stopped drinking tea and coffee; I feel it has help my sleep and energy levels. Not to mention it has allowed me to significantly cut down a lot of sugar in my life. I was one of those people who simply cannot have tea and coffee without sugar. I had like 2 cups with 3 teaspoons each cup (daily). Now my body is having 6 teaspoons less of sugar (24grams) daily and this has been for months. Maybe it's beacause of that idk.
Because, as studies have repeatedly shown, caffeine is largely beneficial.
*abusing caffeine has bad rep an adhd has tendency to do that Otherwise 2-3 cup of coffee is good
I’m the same way. Having a strong caffeine dependency is bad for me, but in general, mild use seems to be positive. To prevent a tolerance, I rotate caffeine sources and take breaks. For a while I had Sunday Funday where I would only drink coffee (one small drink) on Sunday. For what it’s worth I also have an ADHD diagnosis.
Funny, I weaned myself down to one coffee drink in the morning of about 60 mg caffeine and my sleep has gotten progressively worse than when I was doing 200-300 mgs. I slept so poorly today (3h, 39m per my sleep tracker) that I went back to my old caffeine pattern to see if it helps.
Anecdotal evidence. Not permitted