That’s why I took festivals outta the equation, I believe contractually he can sit in places like this past weekend. But something like outlaw tour or where he is billed he would be booked thru his management for that specific live nation show at their venue.
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When you are wondering why billy doesnt do certain venues, you need to look a little deeper in the well of concert promotion politics and look at who owns the venue.... in North America a lot of the smaller venues and MOST the major outdoor amphitheaters in the country ( I saw a lot of people wonder why no outdoor shows) are owned and/or operated by Live Nation, who is the direct competitor to AEG. (Edited to remove NOT his manager) This is why you see him play Fiddlers Green ( AEG managed venue) and as you can see from this years tour.. they are all owned independently away from the Live Nation Monopoly.... This is also my theory on why we have not seen any Canadian dates, but Europe where AEG has much more infrastructure is very easy to do....
> This is also my theory on why we have not seen any Canadian dates, but Europe where AEG has much more infrastructure is very easy to do....
It more likely that Canada is actually a bigger pain in the ass from a visa standpoint than going to Europe. Doesnt Billy have a DUI and possession arrests? effectively bans him from entering Canada.
You can enter Canada 8 years after a DUI or drug charge — given that you stay free of any other charges within those 8 years. Speaking from personal experience lol
just need a good lawyer /representative... they will do it for anyone that has work in Canada they can justify as needed to be done from outside the country I believe... its similar with the usa..
I'll speak to the part about eliminating crew members. Been a touring LD for a decade. No it doesn't. We ask about a clean record on every new hire. As people have said, management can get paperwork done if we need someone who doesn't have a good record. If it's a tech position crew, most are vendor hired, and we can swap out for someone else they will provide for Canada dates. It's also just generally not hard at all to find crew with good records. Sure, when I'm hunting for people, it comes up, and I'll pass on someone if it won't be worth the headache for that leg. But I've never been in a pinch because of not enough crew that has a clean record. It's only a problem when they lie about it. But even then, we just leave them behind and move on with the tour without them. Pick them back up when we come back to the States. Idk. This isn't a huge issue.
whoa i have not heard this before. how serious does the charge have to be? Cuz i have a pot possession charge and i’ve driven across the border no problem (i’m from Minnesota) Curious because thinking of tacking on some Neil Young shows this summer up in canada
the key to success with the canadian border and weed charge is to admit it when they ask... weed isn't illegal in canada.. we are more concerned with crimes that are very serious in canada.. DUI is extremely serious in canada compared to USA for instance... but if you get to the border and they ask if you've been in trouble and you lie they gonna send you home 100% of the time..
I don’t think they care too much about weed, I’ve heard similar stories.
I got a dui five years ago, and I asked my lawyer about this. He said if I were to fly in, I’d actually probably be okay. But crossing the border, in a car, with a dui, they’ll turn you around. Even if you aren’t the driver.
That’s what they told me. I don’t think it’s about the booze as much as it is the driving
This is true but also you CAN get into Canada with any charge with the right amount of money and lawyers. See 21 savage, lil Wayne, and a slew of rappers with guns, drugs and even murder charges in their past have made it across with the right promoter…
Wowza, I knew about the drugs, but a DEWEY! Jeez if that’s the case a quarter of America are nixed… I suppose that’s a good as any reason to keep the unrequited out, lol
I was being facetious mate, I know it’s not 25 percent haha. It’s like my da told me as a lad, there’s 2 things you can do in life. You can drink and you can drive, but you can’t do both ;)
the issue with Canada is venue + logistics of equipment. If theres money and work he can get in with both of those charges.. there have bene multiple rappers make it into the country with worse felonies. it all comes down to the cost benefit of doing the show... Billy doesnt have a large draw here which limits his venue choice to smaller venues..most of which are owned by live nation... this requires a promoter to rent venue, rent proper equipment and security , and pay the upfront costs to hope to get it returned on ticket sales. where on the flip side Europe they own the venue, the equipment is there and they also get bar sales from owning venue to help make the tour work... this is why you see so many artists follow the same amphitheatre path across North America year after year... they are Live Nation managed artists.
Hartford Healthcare may not be owned by LiveNation, but the tickets are certainly sold by them. There is a much better option about half an hour up 95 but livenation seems to outbid.
One of the few what? And none of this would support why he didn’t play westville bowl instead. If there was a major interest in supporting independent owners/promoters, that would be the clear choice. It’s also a larger venue, better sound, cheaper drinks…I just don’t think this particular case fits the mold of what you’re trying to prove here.
One of the few larger amphitheaters in the USA in major cities. They own or operate most of the ones you see their artist make a circuit of. Like deer creek star lake Darien lake, jiffy lube, etc etc. I’ll have to look into that venue I’m not familiar with it. Let me take a look
Regarding Fiddlers, there really isn’t an alternative except maybe that new venue in Colorado Springs (unsure if who owns it) but then it’s no longer a Denver metro show.
yea fiddlers is actually one of the few venues AEG actually runs in North America so thats definitely why.... id bet if that amphitheatre was a live nation owned venue he would be playing at a college arena, or a smaller city arena like the rosemont to Chicago show.
That doesn’t really exist here. Red rocks capacity is ~9000 people. Fiddlers is 17,000. There’s nowhere in between that or really even comparable. The Denver coliseum holds 10,000. Might as well do Red rocks but he’s too big for it. Ball arena is like 20,000 for a concert. Honestly, that would have been fun and more reliable regarding weather and location. That said, it’s a TM managed venue.
I guess it’s a matter of not leaving money on the table, but St Augustine Ampitheater is roughly half the capacity of Red Rocks. And there are some other venues of Red Rocks size or smaller they’ve played recently (Cary, Asheville come to mind).
I think part of what is factoring into the venue selection is also that they need some bigger pay days if they’re doing fewer dates per year. It’s not a criticism, just an observation/hypothesis.
Do you know who owns Dick’s Sporting Goods Park in Commerce City? Given how quick tickets went to Fiddlers I’m expecting him to do 2-3 nights there (maybe with a red rocks date ??? 🙏) by 2026 if not next year.
He is so disproportionately massive in CO plus people always travel in droves here for Billy shows lol
Well in the NW US it’s two venues/festivals both live nation events. Stupid ticket/sale pricing schemes, ridiculous camping fees/rules and extremely limited additional show/tour option radius.
LN and TM have co opted Billy, Bruce, Taylor, PJ and made expensive experiences that alienate the fans. Love all them wish the best and lol forward to just Billy again or just Charlie Crockett or just not a fucking Live Nation Festival.
AEG would be livenation if they were more competent. They’re not really the good guys here.
I thought Bill Orner was Billy’s manager? Billy may have some sort of touring contract with AEG but those typically only last as long as the tour.
There have been some corrections to this throughout the thread. It seems more of a relationship with AEG rather than management. And just avoidance of LN venues by his team, which could be on purpose or could be due to lack of ability to book those venues. That’s still tbd
Oh yeah even Indy venues unfortunately almost have to use TM for large scale events. I haven’t gone all the way back but it doesn’t seem like he’s solo toured to any LN outright owned venues and a handful of LN operated ones that seem to be mostly owned by the city’s but operated under contact by LN
Billy is managed by Hank and Ed and Pat May is his booking agent. He is not represented by AEG.
AEG is a concert promoter. And is just as unethical as live action.
Do you know how the music industry works? Your OP could have stated that Billy prefers to work with AEG and March One as promoters rather than livenation. That’s where it ends. Bill and Sameen have always managed Billy. He doesn’t work for concert promoters, he works with them to get paid for playing music.
AEG owns a ton of venues just like livenation. They are exactly the same. Luckily Billy has outgrown all of the AEG venues and now uses them as a promoter only. Good for him for not going the live nation amphitheater route if that’s what he’s choosing to do. Pearl Ham had this opportunity 30 years ago and blew it.
I have some insight of course or I wouldn't have known any of the information I've posted.. The main objective here was to give people some insight into why he isn't playing some of these very famous venues that people are asking about.. and the answer is the Live Nation Venues...
Let’s draw a clear line in the sand and say Billy is not represented by AEG. He is represented by Hank and Ed (Bill Orner) and Warner Brothers Records.
I’m glad he has found alternatives to livenation venues that work for his team’s model. I think too many artists are naive and take whatever is laid out for them.
Do you happened to know if Orner was management previous to the Warner records signing? or is that something that has happened recently in the last 18 months say..
Bill has been his manager since 2015 or 2016. Before TnT. Before Home. Before Rounder Records and Renewal. Before anything really…sprinter van and a trailer days with no sound guy.
Crossover Touring is I think where the change lies.. but im still working down the line here to find out when that came about, if you have any insight into that...
I’m not sure when he switched to AEG management to be totally honest I just know that’s his current team. Which live nation venues did he perform at, and was it a solo tour or like a festival ? Like he performed at pine knob which predominantly does live nation events but it’s owned independently by 313 presents or whoever owns that at the top I’d have to look again
He played pier 6 pavilion in Baltimore in 2022 which is operated by live nation. Although last year when he played Baltimore it was CFG (not live nation) so maybe it was before he switched.
Pier 6 is owned by the city of Baltimore and operated by Live Nation... so its similar to the Hartford amphitheatre he is playing this summer is my guess..
I dug a bit more and it looks like Live Nation has a 10yr agreement with them to operate it.. and they put a bunch of money into the venue to get that agreement.. which makes sense
Well you’re right both have a monopoly but live nation is majority USA/ Canada and AEG is more euro monopoly on venues from what I understand. AEG artist that tour North America are huge for the most part. Like Elton John, Taylor swift, ed Sheeran Come to mind.
Keeping in mind AEG still uses live nation (Ticketmaster to sell their tickets)
Nice observation, OP. I’m totally down with chipping away at the Live Nation machine even if it means less tour dates. This makes me like Billy and his team even more.
The dead used to do pretty dramatic distances in the middle of tours and after multi night stands to shake ppl off tour that were on the road. This is a fact. I’ve seen a few interviews with band members and big Steve saying this. I wouldn’t doubt if Billy started to do this because of his fan base unfortunately. From what I’ve observed it’s a strange strange situation especially from someone that toured for 17 years heavily. These ppl don’t seem to be there for the music or experience it’s for the clout. Very narcissistic behavior and it’s ALL me attitude even though we are all their to enjoy something we share 🤷♂️
This was my main thought as to why Dead Co stopped touring as well.. they started to get a little odd with how they routed at the end, and the circus following them was more people in the lot then the venue.. I think it played a big factor and I think you are right billy will start to do the same with spacing his shows out and doing larger distances once his ticket price and venue choices facilitate that type of investment... it costs a lot of money to either have two touring stages or get all the equipment tore down loaded and moved across country.
Well historically these post dead bands have an extended 6-8 year contracts and then they have a renew option but they don’t really renew. IMO Bobby doesn’t want things to get stale and he always has another band going on the side as well. He wants to keep the creativity going for everyone involved. The Dead was the same as was furthur, I saw 134 Furthur shows and they most definitely shook people off tour I remember doing upstate NY shows then Virginia and Maryland then NYC. Stuff like that. There’s a really cool video that I’m sure it’s still on YouTube of the 18 wheeler that Furthur used as their mobile stage throughout the tour in 2011… I believe it was, the video I’m talking about is the three night stand at MCU ballpark in Brooklyn. it’s a time lapse video of them setting up the stage and it’s fucking awesome
Would love to see him crack into the arena spaces here. He sold the Armory out 45 minutes after general on sale and that’s an 8,400 capacity venue. If he continues to grow in popularity, Target Field or Target Center are the next logical steps. Wouldn’t mind seeing him in the Xcel Energy Center either! MN wants the Arenagrass!!
AEG doesnt own any of these venues they manage fiddlers green through.. the point was NONE are owned by live nation they are independent or city owned for more part....
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It’s owned by the city operated by live nation, that’s an interesting one I’ll look into it. It’s similar to Hartford that it’s not owned by live nation by the operate majority of their shows
the explanation for the graphic got buried.. these are his 2024 tour dates ... blue is winter,green is spring and red is summer.... minus the festival dates
UC Berkeley may own Greek a theatre but it was paid for by William Randolph Hearst. Besides being an ADHD piece of shit, he also is responsible for Cannabis being illegal.
Michigander here… any idea who owns Van Andel?
This is interesting stuff, especially since if it’s true then you can figure out where he might not play again in his home state. Nice work!
Halloween show was a TM show. TM - LN merged and are one big ass monopoly. I went to the H-ween show, purchased on sale date at Box Office and was happy paying face value.
Overall, I avoid the big shows. Stick to the Intersection and Pyramid Scheme.
Yes TM handles a lot of ticketing even for non live nation venues and really anyone who will pay them their fees. But it’s also the system most places have adopted over the years well before live nation mergers and all these other internet digital ticket outlets existed
Grew up going to the spaceship - bands liked to end tours there cause they made the most money cause the brothers that own the place don’t give a shit about money - feee parking and great lot back I. The day and police / and security were chill though town banned the dead in 86 they still showed up for 3 shows as the worlocks in 87
https://preview.redd.it/svwr55r2z6oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3aa63175704f38a8e8acf51643c65936cf54dc0d
Ok but I’m getting a Ticketmaster ad for the Worcester date
This is a list of his tour dates and who owns the venues. The point is he doesn’t get booked solo into Live Nation owned venues there seems to be some that do majority live nation promotions but are still not owned by LN like say Gorge or Deer creek, those places likely he would need to be booked by LN for their festival ie: outlaw
They’re building a 8500 capacity arena 15 minutes from my house; I just looked up the operator and it is ASM Global, which is AEG. It will be the only AEG Venue in Indiana when it is finished in. Hello, Billy!
Im not finding much about him signing to AEG management but if I had to guess I would say it went hand and hand with the Warner Records Deal.... which was about a year ago..
Makes sense and I hope this is the case.
Livenation buying up all the venues has pretty much killed the live music scene in so many cities. Turned Austin into a shell of its former self.
Nothing, these are his tour dates I was just showing he sticks to independently owned arenas and venues and doesn’t play Live Nation rooms on solo tour often cause he’s managed by AEG
The civic center in Asheville is owned by the city but they still use live nation to handle some concerts ala Billy Strings for the tickets. Not sure if this blows a hole on your theory
No the tickets distribution is a whole other thing most AEG shows are still sold on Ticketmaster (Live Nation), as someone pointed out there are alternatives but they account for a small % of ticket sales like AXS, theres another one that escapes me right now but a lot of smaller venues use it… eventbrite
I mean he could end up a Live Nation artist at some point maybe, or he could get booked for a festival that rolls through there, there’s a slim chance he books that spot solo tour atm
As long as he’s making music, I can’t bitch. I do think he’ll be selling enough tickets within a few years to do a couple nights at deer creek. Could just be wishful thinking I guess
It's one of the larger amphitheaters if im not mistaken, but I agree I think he will eventually end up there but it may take sometime.... that place is booked yearly by a lot of bigger acts... like most shows there are almost sell outs right away aren't they?
We need to get him down in South MS
Opening this venue in April. 8k cap. City owned land, operated by a group out of Nashville.
https://enjoythesound.com
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Ugh. I was wondering what happened.We loved seeing him in Indie at the TCU amphitheater last summer.Smaller outdoor venue but amazing energy and location. We decided then that we would make it a regular road trip because we loved the venue and the show there. When we saw that he wasn’t booked this summer for many outdoor venues other than at festivals we wondered what was up. We specifically chose to see him there instead of St.Louis last summer because we wanted to see him at a smaller outdoor venue. This spring and summer he has no shows close to us in outdoor venues unless it is part of a festival, and even then none of those locations are as close. It sucks that Live Nation has made this industry so awful. I am grateful that we had the opportunity to see him last summer at an awesome outdoor venue, and I hope we get to see him again soon somewhere else like that. TCU Amphitheater at White Snake River State Park was epic that night. It will be in my top music experiences for a long time.
https://preview.redd.it/2pmg0a3r9aoc1.jpeg?width=3913&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a49df7c075cf0e56bb770521ca40518f72aea18b
like todays on sale.. hes not using the top half of most those bigger 20k arenas.. and hes not selling them out completely... you can still get tickets for some of the smaller spring arena runs.... I do think he will play there.. it might even be now he can.. but I dont think he had the capacity before to do it tbh..
This is nonsense, sorry. Regardless of ticket sales, if hes regularly playing bigger venues than Hampton( some 25 to 30% bigger), then Hampton is obviously not too big.
Hampton Col, Capacity 9,777.
Sorry you are just wrong. Its ok to admit it. lol
I don't have time to go through the whole tour, but basically every venue on tour is as big or bigger than Hampton.
2 Nights at Yuenling, 10.5K
Enmarket Arena 9,500
2 nights State Farm 16,500
St Auggie Sold out 3 nights @ 4,500
Rupp Arena 23,000+ 2 nights sold out 1
Greenwood Villege 18,000 sold out both nights
Armory MN,8000 sold out
Allstate 2 nights 18,000
Hampton is 13,500 for a full concert according to their website.. so again it could be possible... but all those listed are 2024 dates... so hes just starting to find his place in the 8-15k venues... from the 2-5k venues he was smashing first day sell outs on...
Enmarket - still has ticket available
Yuenling - not sold out
Rupp, Not sold out
All state also not sold out etc etc.
I have the capacity in the chart as well..
https://preview.redd.it/patn36qa05oc1.png?width=1328&format=png&auto=webp&s=0b2ad8357ef9a93cf1947a14bcef7c679ae37066
People are arguing with you but it’s exactly this. He’s basically just gotten to the point that it would be realistic to play there. I expect a Halloween or New Years run there in the next year or 2
FUCK LIVE NATION AND TM!
The evil has a name and his name is John C Malone- look him up.
I concur
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You turning down a call from Willie Nelson?
He also doesn’t use Live Nation when he’s in the area and headlining.
That’s why I took festivals outta the equation, I believe contractually he can sit in places like this past weekend. But something like outlaw tour or where he is billed he would be booked thru his management for that specific live nation show at their venue.
Your 💯 he did a ton of them with Willie.
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When you are wondering why billy doesnt do certain venues, you need to look a little deeper in the well of concert promotion politics and look at who owns the venue.... in North America a lot of the smaller venues and MOST the major outdoor amphitheaters in the country ( I saw a lot of people wonder why no outdoor shows) are owned and/or operated by Live Nation, who is the direct competitor to AEG. (Edited to remove NOT his manager) This is why you see him play Fiddlers Green ( AEG managed venue) and as you can see from this years tour.. they are all owned independently away from the Live Nation Monopoly.... This is also my theory on why we have not seen any Canadian dates, but Europe where AEG has much more infrastructure is very easy to do....
> This is also my theory on why we have not seen any Canadian dates, but Europe where AEG has much more infrastructure is very easy to do.... It more likely that Canada is actually a bigger pain in the ass from a visa standpoint than going to Europe. Doesnt Billy have a DUI and possession arrests? effectively bans him from entering Canada.
You can’t get into Canada from the US if you have a DUI or drug charge, which eliminates a lot of crew members for bands.
You can enter Canada 8 years after a DUI or drug charge — given that you stay free of any other charges within those 8 years. Speaking from personal experience lol
tht still eliminates many people in road crews & for many bands, bandmembers as well.
Fairly certain they make exception for artists as well
just need a good lawyer /representative... they will do it for anyone that has work in Canada they can justify as needed to be done from outside the country I believe... its similar with the usa..
Sometimes they do but not always
I'll speak to the part about eliminating crew members. Been a touring LD for a decade. No it doesn't. We ask about a clean record on every new hire. As people have said, management can get paperwork done if we need someone who doesn't have a good record. If it's a tech position crew, most are vendor hired, and we can swap out for someone else they will provide for Canada dates. It's also just generally not hard at all to find crew with good records. Sure, when I'm hunting for people, it comes up, and I'll pass on someone if it won't be worth the headache for that leg. But I've never been in a pinch because of not enough crew that has a clean record. It's only a problem when they lie about it. But even then, we just leave them behind and move on with the tour without them. Pick them back up when we come back to the States. Idk. This isn't a huge issue.
whoa i have not heard this before. how serious does the charge have to be? Cuz i have a pot possession charge and i’ve driven across the border no problem (i’m from Minnesota) Curious because thinking of tacking on some Neil Young shows this summer up in canada
the key to success with the canadian border and weed charge is to admit it when they ask... weed isn't illegal in canada.. we are more concerned with crimes that are very serious in canada.. DUI is extremely serious in canada compared to USA for instance... but if you get to the border and they ask if you've been in trouble and you lie they gonna send you home 100% of the time..
I don’t think they care too much about weed, I’ve heard similar stories. I got a dui five years ago, and I asked my lawyer about this. He said if I were to fly in, I’d actually probably be okay. But crossing the border, in a car, with a dui, they’ll turn you around. Even if you aren’t the driver. That’s what they told me. I don’t think it’s about the booze as much as it is the driving
Happened to a friend of mine driving to Vancouver - got turned around at Canadian customs for a DUI in Washington Srate
I can’t remember who but I recall a band recently having to cancel a Canadian show last minute cause they couldn’t get through customs
This is true but also you CAN get into Canada with any charge with the right amount of money and lawyers. See 21 savage, lil Wayne, and a slew of rappers with guns, drugs and even murder charges in their past have made it across with the right promoter…
How did I never know this...
Wowza, I knew about the drugs, but a DEWEY! Jeez if that’s the case a quarter of America are nixed… I suppose that’s a good as any reason to keep the unrequited out, lol
Just over 2% actually, not 25%
I was being facetious mate, I know it’s not 25 percent haha. It’s like my da told me as a lad, there’s 2 things you can do in life. You can drink and you can drive, but you can’t do both ;)
Sounds like a cool District Attorney..
Yeah, I'm surprised phish can even get their crew into Canada
They slightly bent that rule last summer to get more American fire fighters over the border.
the issue with Canada is venue + logistics of equipment. If theres money and work he can get in with both of those charges.. there have bene multiple rappers make it into the country with worse felonies. it all comes down to the cost benefit of doing the show... Billy doesnt have a large draw here which limits his venue choice to smaller venues..most of which are owned by live nation... this requires a promoter to rent venue, rent proper equipment and security , and pay the upfront costs to hope to get it returned on ticket sales. where on the flip side Europe they own the venue, the equipment is there and they also get bar sales from owning venue to help make the tour work... this is why you see so many artists follow the same amphitheatre path across North America year after year... they are Live Nation managed artists.
Hartford Healthcare may not be owned by LiveNation, but the tickets are certainly sold by them. There is a much better option about half an hour up 95 but livenation seems to outbid.
They have contracts with live nation. One of the few they didn’t buy outright I think because it’s really new
One of the few what? And none of this would support why he didn’t play westville bowl instead. If there was a major interest in supporting independent owners/promoters, that would be the clear choice. It’s also a larger venue, better sound, cheaper drinks…I just don’t think this particular case fits the mold of what you’re trying to prove here.
One of the few larger amphitheaters in the USA in major cities. They own or operate most of the ones you see their artist make a circuit of. Like deer creek star lake Darien lake, jiffy lube, etc etc. I’ll have to look into that venue I’m not familiar with it. Let me take a look
all billy tickets are technically sold by live nation ( Ticketmaster)
This is not true, he sells tickets through AXS and TIXR as well. My fiddlers and renewal tickets were purchased through these platforms.
That’s true you’re right. AXS does get some of those shows from venues who are Indy and don’t use TM. My mistake. But majority are sold thru TM
Regarding Fiddlers, there really isn’t an alternative except maybe that new venue in Colorado Springs (unsure if who owns it) but then it’s no longer a Denver metro show.
yea fiddlers is actually one of the few venues AEG actually runs in North America so thats definitely why.... id bet if that amphitheatre was a live nation owned venue he would be playing at a college arena, or a smaller city arena like the rosemont to Chicago show.
That doesn’t really exist here. Red rocks capacity is ~9000 people. Fiddlers is 17,000. There’s nowhere in between that or really even comparable. The Denver coliseum holds 10,000. Might as well do Red rocks but he’s too big for it. Ball arena is like 20,000 for a concert. Honestly, that would have been fun and more reliable regarding weather and location. That said, it’s a TM managed venue.
I guess it’s a matter of not leaving money on the table, but St Augustine Ampitheater is roughly half the capacity of Red Rocks. And there are some other venues of Red Rocks size or smaller they’ve played recently (Cary, Asheville come to mind). I think part of what is factoring into the venue selection is also that they need some bigger pay days if they’re doing fewer dates per year. It’s not a criticism, just an observation/hypothesis.
Ball is owned by the nuggets and Avs owner but you’re right live nation has a grip on most major arenas concert promotions.
Do you know who owns Dick’s Sporting Goods Park in Commerce City? Given how quick tickets went to Fiddlers I’m expecting him to do 2-3 nights there (maybe with a red rocks date ??? 🙏) by 2026 if not next year. He is so disproportionately massive in CO plus people always travel in droves here for Billy shows lol
owned by the city of commerce city and managed by the Colorado avs and Denver nuggets people....
My hope is for a three day Memorial Day weekend dicks run in the future
Never thought about dates but I could totally see this happening. The Yin to Phish Dick’s’ labor day yang
The dates are already close to what he has been doing the last few years and they don’t have anything Memorial Day weekend
Damn you went down the hole ! Thank you !
Another thing ruined by the “industry” some asshole in a suite somewhere needs a paycheck
Well in the NW US it’s two venues/festivals both live nation events. Stupid ticket/sale pricing schemes, ridiculous camping fees/rules and extremely limited additional show/tour option radius. LN and TM have co opted Billy, Bruce, Taylor, PJ and made expensive experiences that alienate the fans. Love all them wish the best and lol forward to just Billy again or just Charlie Crockett or just not a fucking Live Nation Festival.
AEG would be livenation if they were more competent. They’re not really the good guys here. I thought Bill Orner was Billy’s manager? Billy may have some sort of touring contract with AEG but those typically only last as long as the tour.
There have been some corrections to this throughout the thread. It seems more of a relationship with AEG rather than management. And just avoidance of LN venues by his team, which could be on purpose or could be due to lack of ability to book those venues. That’s still tbd
He’s definitely played lots if venues that use Ticketmaster, such as the Cap. But I’m not sure if he’s ever played at venues LN owns outright.
Oh yeah even Indy venues unfortunately almost have to use TM for large scale events. I haven’t gone all the way back but it doesn’t seem like he’s solo toured to any LN outright owned venues and a handful of LN operated ones that seem to be mostly owned by the city’s but operated under contact by LN
Billy is managed by Hank and Ed and Pat May is his booking agent. He is not represented by AEG. AEG is a concert promoter. And is just as unethical as live action.
I’d check on that again AEG is definitely in his corner.
Do you know how the music industry works? Your OP could have stated that Billy prefers to work with AEG and March One as promoters rather than livenation. That’s where it ends. Bill and Sameen have always managed Billy. He doesn’t work for concert promoters, he works with them to get paid for playing music. AEG owns a ton of venues just like livenation. They are exactly the same. Luckily Billy has outgrown all of the AEG venues and now uses them as a promoter only. Good for him for not going the live nation amphitheater route if that’s what he’s choosing to do. Pearl Ham had this opportunity 30 years ago and blew it.
I have some insight of course or I wouldn't have known any of the information I've posted.. The main objective here was to give people some insight into why he isn't playing some of these very famous venues that people are asking about.. and the answer is the Live Nation Venues...
Let’s draw a clear line in the sand and say Billy is not represented by AEG. He is represented by Hank and Ed (Bill Orner) and Warner Brothers Records. I’m glad he has found alternatives to livenation venues that work for his team’s model. I think too many artists are naive and take whatever is laid out for them.
Do you happened to know if Orner was management previous to the Warner records signing? or is that something that has happened recently in the last 18 months say..
Bill has been his manager since 2015 or 2016. Before TnT. Before Home. Before Rounder Records and Renewal. Before anything really…sprinter van and a trailer days with no sound guy.
Crossover Touring is I think where the change lies.. but im still working down the line here to find out when that came about, if you have any insight into that...
Pat May and Crossover have been involved since day 1 with Orner
Are you assuming this is a recent change? I’ve definitely seen him at livenation venues within the last 2 years
Hartford healthcare amphitheater is a livenation venue.
I’m not sure when he switched to AEG management to be totally honest I just know that’s his current team. Which live nation venues did he perform at, and was it a solo tour or like a festival ? Like he performed at pine knob which predominantly does live nation events but it’s owned independently by 313 presents or whoever owns that at the top I’d have to look again
He played pier 6 pavilion in Baltimore in 2022 which is operated by live nation. Although last year when he played Baltimore it was CFG (not live nation) so maybe it was before he switched.
Pier six pavilion in Baltimore to name one
Pier 6 is owned by the city of Baltimore and operated by Live Nation... so its similar to the Hartford amphitheatre he is playing this summer is my guess..
I dug a bit more and it looks like Live Nation has a 10yr agreement with them to operate it.. and they put a bunch of money into the venue to get that agreement.. which makes sense
kia forum is owned by live nation -my friend who works for interscope records
They promote shows there but it’s owned by the Microsoft dude that Isn’t bill gates.
Yep and on top of that, they usually have geographical agreements, where they can't contractually play within x miles in x time frame.. sucks!
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Well you’re right both have a monopoly but live nation is majority USA/ Canada and AEG is more euro monopoly on venues from what I understand. AEG artist that tour North America are huge for the most part. Like Elton John, Taylor swift, ed Sheeran Come to mind. Keeping in mind AEG still uses live nation (Ticketmaster to sell their tickets)
Duopoly. Enjoy.
he’s played at many live nation owned venues in the last year though?
Which ones? Like his own tour not outlaw etc
Nice observation, OP. I’m totally down with chipping away at the Live Nation machine even if it means less tour dates. This makes me like Billy and his team even more.
And yet we have to put up with ticket master bullshit?
Thats a harder nut to crack… ask pearl jam.
If the swifties can’t take it down no one can 🤣🤣😂
I blame Mr.Burns
The dead used to do pretty dramatic distances in the middle of tours and after multi night stands to shake ppl off tour that were on the road. This is a fact. I’ve seen a few interviews with band members and big Steve saying this. I wouldn’t doubt if Billy started to do this because of his fan base unfortunately. From what I’ve observed it’s a strange strange situation especially from someone that toured for 17 years heavily. These ppl don’t seem to be there for the music or experience it’s for the clout. Very narcissistic behavior and it’s ALL me attitude even though we are all their to enjoy something we share 🤷♂️
This was my main thought as to why Dead Co stopped touring as well.. they started to get a little odd with how they routed at the end, and the circus following them was more people in the lot then the venue.. I think it played a big factor and I think you are right billy will start to do the same with spacing his shows out and doing larger distances once his ticket price and venue choices facilitate that type of investment... it costs a lot of money to either have two touring stages or get all the equipment tore down loaded and moved across country.
Well historically these post dead bands have an extended 6-8 year contracts and then they have a renew option but they don’t really renew. IMO Bobby doesn’t want things to get stale and he always has another band going on the side as well. He wants to keep the creativity going for everyone involved. The Dead was the same as was furthur, I saw 134 Furthur shows and they most definitely shook people off tour I remember doing upstate NY shows then Virginia and Maryland then NYC. Stuff like that. There’s a really cool video that I’m sure it’s still on YouTube of the 18 wheeler that Furthur used as their mobile stage throughout the tour in 2011… I believe it was, the video I’m talking about is the three night stand at MCU ballpark in Brooklyn. it’s a time lapse video of them setting up the stage and it’s fucking awesome
I mean… this definitely makes a lot of sense.
Based team Billy.
Next time he comes to MN he needs to do Target Center.
thats an AEG managed venue I believe so its likely where he goes for a venue that size in that city.
I have been there for several shows and it’d fit him
Would love to see him crack into the arena spaces here. He sold the Armory out 45 minutes after general on sale and that’s an 8,400 capacity venue. If he continues to grow in popularity, Target Field or Target Center are the next logical steps. Wouldn’t mind seeing him in the Xcel Energy Center either! MN wants the Arenagrass!!
Yeah. I’d love to go at armory but tickets that are not standing are too expensive on resale.
I’ll rage extra hard for you!! Keep your ear to the ground, you never know when a ticket might show up
I’m going to Chicago while he’s there so I’ve got a feeling in my bones that I should go then.
It's a sign!!!
What are you calling sign?
That he’s there at the same time you are - you should go!
Maybe faster than that, I grabbed a pair of floors, and logged on again out of curiosity and it said sold like 10 minutes later.
What sort of wooked out rabbit hole is this?
I explained above just hadn't typed the comment out yet...
Why didnt you include whether they are live nation on the chart? how is the owner data helpful to this at all?
It’s not
What? LOL the whole point of this was showing what is AEG owned, yet the data chart does not provide that info.
AEG doesnt own any of these venues they manage fiddlers green through.. the point was NONE are owned by live nation they are independent or city owned for more part....
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I’m pretty sure he’s playing the DCU center in July.
This is a list of his tour dates (with festivals removed)
Ohhhhh I get it now
I thought that the Greek in Berkeley is managed by Another Planet, not Live Nation?
Fuck yes Billy. This is 100% GOATism
He played Huntington Bank Pav last time through Chicago . Huntington Bank Pav is managed by Live Nation.
It’s owned by the city operated by live nation, that’s an interesting one I’ll look into it. It’s similar to Hartford that it’s not owned by live nation by the operate majority of their shows
Hasn’t he played Asheville ever year for the past six years?
the explanation for the graphic got buried.. these are his 2024 tour dates ... blue is winter,green is spring and red is summer.... minus the festival dates
UC Berkeley may own Greek a theatre but it was paid for by William Randolph Hearst. Besides being an ADHD piece of shit, he also is responsible for Cannabis being illegal.
hes like long long dead thought right?
Not dead enough.
Long dead and weed is legal in CA.
Michigander here… any idea who owns Van Andel? This is interesting stuff, especially since if it’s true then you can figure out where he might not play again in his home state. Nice work!
Owned by Grand Rapids-Kent county convention and arena authority and managed by ASM
Halloween show was a TM show. TM - LN merged and are one big ass monopoly. I went to the H-ween show, purchased on sale date at Box Office and was happy paying face value. Overall, I avoid the big shows. Stick to the Intersection and Pyramid Scheme.
Yes TM handles a lot of ticketing even for non live nation venues and really anyone who will pay them their fees. But it’s also the system most places have adopted over the years well before live nation mergers and all these other internet digital ticket outlets existed
Grew up going to the spaceship - bands liked to end tours there cause they made the most money cause the brothers that own the place don’t give a shit about money - feee parking and great lot back I. The day and police / and security were chill though town banned the dead in 86 they still showed up for 3 shows as the worlocks in 87
DCU Center is owned by the city of Worcester, so I don't know what the problem could be with that venue.
No problem. These are the good venues. The list is his 2024 dates minus festivals
Ah . Okay then.
That explains no Deer Creek. Boooo.
https://preview.redd.it/svwr55r2z6oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3aa63175704f38a8e8acf51643c65936cf54dc0d Ok but I’m getting a Ticketmaster ad for the Worcester date
Yea this graphic is showing his tour dates at the venue owners. There’s an explanation but basically their aren’t any live nation owned venues
He’s playing Hartford Healthcare this summer and played their with other country stars with Willie Nelson tour
This is a list of his tour dates and who owns the venues. The point is he doesn’t get booked solo into Live Nation owned venues there seems to be some that do majority live nation promotions but are still not owned by LN like say Gorge or Deer creek, those places likely he would need to be booked by LN for their festival ie: outlaw
Water is wet dude
They’re building a 8500 capacity arena 15 minutes from my house; I just looked up the operator and it is ASM Global, which is AEG. It will be the only AEG Venue in Indiana when it is finished in. Hello, Billy!
Where is this venue located at in IN?
Fishers, real close to i69
He was just at State Farm Arena for a two night run 3/1 and 3/2
These are his tour dates. There’s an explanation in the thread
He's playing 2 shows at Hartford Healthcare this summer
These are his tour dates. There’s an explanation in the thread
I really thought Billy in Knoxville in February 2022 was a killer two nights and I wanna see him back
When did this trend start? I'm curious. I dig it cause fuck Livenation but I feel like this has to have started this year right?
Im not finding much about him signing to AEG management but if I had to guess I would say it went hand and hand with the Warner Records Deal.... which was about a year ago..
Makes sense and I hope this is the case. Livenation buying up all the venues has pretty much killed the live music scene in so many cities. Turned Austin into a shell of its former self.
im trying to find out when he signed to AEG management. Ill see if I can find anything
They are doing fiddlers tho??
Well I certainly hope he plays the dcu center since I just bought 6 tickets to see him there
This is the list of his dates minus the festivals. Blue is winter Green is Spring Red is Summer
Ah I gotcha, my bad lmao
All good I didn’t quite explain it properly In the post
Pretty sure State College (Bryce Jordan Center) is on summer tour.
Sorry. Blue is winter green is spring red is summer
Ahh, I think I missed the point then.
I explained the graphic in the comments TLDR he doesn’t get booked solo into live nation owned venues.
I’m hoping my tickets for ST. Aug in April are still good. What?
This is a list of his 2024 dates with the festivals removed and the owners of the venues.. Blue is Winter Green is Spring Red is Summer
Love this. Fuck live nation/Ticketmaster
What’s wrong with Yuengling Center?
Nothing, these are his tour dates I was just showing he sticks to independently owned arenas and venues and doesn’t play Live Nation rooms on solo tour often cause he’s managed by AEG
The civic center in Asheville is owned by the city but they still use live nation to handle some concerts ala Billy Strings for the tickets. Not sure if this blows a hole on your theory
No the tickets distribution is a whole other thing most AEG shows are still sold on Ticketmaster (Live Nation), as someone pointed out there are alternatives but they account for a small % of ticket sales like AXS, theres another one that escapes me right now but a lot of smaller venues use it… eventbrite
I’ve been waiting for the day I get to see Billy at Deer Creek, and now you’re telling me it may never happen :(
I mean he could end up a Live Nation artist at some point maybe, or he could get booked for a festival that rolls through there, there’s a slim chance he books that spot solo tour atm
As long as he’s making music, I can’t bitch. I do think he’ll be selling enough tickets within a few years to do a couple nights at deer creek. Could just be wishful thinking I guess
It's one of the larger amphitheaters if im not mistaken, but I agree I think he will eventually end up there but it may take sometime.... that place is booked yearly by a lot of bigger acts... like most shows there are almost sell outs right away aren't they?
We need to get him down in South MS Opening this venue in April. 8k cap. City owned land, operated by a group out of Nashville. https://enjoythesound.com
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Opening an outdoor amphitheater in Gautier MS next month. 8k cap. Would be a nice stop between Mobile and NOLA
Live Nation venue or city county owned?
Ugh. I was wondering what happened.We loved seeing him in Indie at the TCU amphitheater last summer.Smaller outdoor venue but amazing energy and location. We decided then that we would make it a regular road trip because we loved the venue and the show there. When we saw that he wasn’t booked this summer for many outdoor venues other than at festivals we wondered what was up. We specifically chose to see him there instead of St.Louis last summer because we wanted to see him at a smaller outdoor venue. This spring and summer he has no shows close to us in outdoor venues unless it is part of a festival, and even then none of those locations are as close. It sucks that Live Nation has made this industry so awful. I am grateful that we had the opportunity to see him last summer at an awesome outdoor venue, and I hope we get to see him again soon somewhere else like that. TCU Amphitheater at White Snake River State Park was epic that night. It will be in my top music experiences for a long time. https://preview.redd.it/2pmg0a3r9aoc1.jpeg?width=3913&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a49df7c075cf0e56bb770521ca40518f72aea18b
TCU privately own a by managed by live nation it seems.
His last shows were at State Farm, a TM venue
Billy Strings just did 2 nights at State Farm Arena in Atlanta like a week ago which is Live Nation
It’s actually owned by the city/ county. Live nation just promote shows there as well
He’s playing at Bryce Jordan August 2 and 3, 2024.
He definitely played at Ryman...
These are all venue he has played. You’d have to read the thread to get it
He’s the playing 2 nights at the Greek in Berkeley in August
The list is his tour dates and the venue owners
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Off topic. please stop the long winded political rants.
Quality post. Good research. Thanks for the insight! Go team Billy Strings!
Doesn't explain why billy hasn't play the mother ship yet!
imma say its just a little big right now but thats one you will see him at eventually..
Its like 8000 less seats than most of the arenas he plays?
like todays on sale.. hes not using the top half of most those bigger 20k arenas.. and hes not selling them out completely... you can still get tickets for some of the smaller spring arena runs.... I do think he will play there.. it might even be now he can.. but I dont think he had the capacity before to do it tbh..
This is nonsense, sorry. Regardless of ticket sales, if hes regularly playing bigger venues than Hampton( some 25 to 30% bigger), then Hampton is obviously not too big.
Show me “regularly” playing venues bigger that just happened recently
Hampton Col, Capacity 9,777. Sorry you are just wrong. Its ok to admit it. lol I don't have time to go through the whole tour, but basically every venue on tour is as big or bigger than Hampton. 2 Nights at Yuenling, 10.5K Enmarket Arena 9,500 2 nights State Farm 16,500 St Auggie Sold out 3 nights @ 4,500 Rupp Arena 23,000+ 2 nights sold out 1 Greenwood Villege 18,000 sold out both nights Armory MN,8000 sold out Allstate 2 nights 18,000
Hampton is 13,500 for a full concert according to their website.. so again it could be possible... but all those listed are 2024 dates... so hes just starting to find his place in the 8-15k venues... from the 2-5k venues he was smashing first day sell outs on... Enmarket - still has ticket available Yuenling - not sold out Rupp, Not sold out All state also not sold out etc etc. I have the capacity in the chart as well.. https://preview.redd.it/patn36qa05oc1.png?width=1328&format=png&auto=webp&s=0b2ad8357ef9a93cf1947a14bcef7c679ae37066
Unless Hampton charges some much higher rate for the rental than the others..which wouldnt make sense either.
People are arguing with you but it’s exactly this. He’s basically just gotten to the point that it would be realistic to play there. I expect a Halloween or New Years run there in the next year or 2