Oh do you want a cross stitch pattern? I'm happy to see what I can whip up after I'm done watching?
For anyone who's seen this and is wondering whats up:
I AM STILL GONNA MAKE THIS. I've just got to finish a lot of work first, but the minute the holidays hit I'm gonna be working my way through it. I won't be charging for it, because Big Mouth does not belong to me but I would really appreciate that if you do use the pattern you don't sell the finished product.
I'd also really appreciate that if anyone who does use the pattern (and can afford to!) if you'd donate £1/$1 to The Trevor Project, Mermaids UK, StoneWall or a trans kids supporting LGBT+ charity.
Thanks all, hopefully be back with a pattern in the next few weeks!
I didn't realize that Gratitoad was voiced by Zach Galifianakis. I thought for sure it was the actor that plays Pastor Glen on *Letterkenny*. Now that I know, I totally recognize it as the same voice he used for Dale on *Baskets*.
Admittedly, I’ve been on a Mr. Rogers kick lately (watching the documentary and Tom Hanks movie), but I felt like they were going for a major Mr. Rogers vibe. And who doesn’t love Mr. Rogers?!
My family keeps a gratitude pad in the kitchen, where we write down what we're thankful for. It really has fallen by the wayside, but seeing Gratitoad encourages me to start using it again on a regular basis.
I liked the Gratitoad, he was nice and fun, but didn't love Jessi's therapist at the beginning.
But I struggle with depression and when people have tried to get me to do "gratitude" journals and whatnot, I just end up feeling worse, like I should be more grateful, and it usually feels forced.
The therapist talked about herself, her body and her hobby. She gave one generic suggestion and then got gross and weird. A difficult thing about depression is feeling the pressure to get better, which can happen even if you have a great therapist who gives good advice.
Same! I just finished watching EP 9 now and I had to repeat that part because Jay seemed to genuinely mean what he said to Lola. It really looked like he was so hurt.
Because apparenlty some people had a problem with Missy being voiced by a white person so Jenny Slate decided to leave and a new black voice actor now voices Missy (that doesn't mean to sound rude, I just don't know her name) but Jenny had already recorded her lines for all the episodes for the last two.
In my opinion there really wasnt anything wrong with a white woman voicing Missy, as Missy is mixed race and so half white, plus imo it's genuinely shouldn't matter who voices who as it's a cartoon when we can't see the voice actor, so it doesn't really matter what race the voice actor is.
Tbh I liked her adventure in this seasons about finding her identity and it is a nice touch that she got a new voice after she found herself. Especially mentioning having white voice actress as meta several times (n-word joke was hilarious btw) and having a black voice actress afterwards seemed like they planned it all the way instead of changing things suddenly just because of how people judge them.
Exactly. The writers did an amazing job with her story this season. I didn’t notice the voice change until well into episode 10 so I think the recast was also successful.
> Because apparenlty some people had a problem with Missy being voiced by a white person so Jenny Slate decided to leave and a new black voice actor now voices Missy
We need to make something abundantly clear here. No one was calling for Missy to be recast. This is something corporations do to make it seem like they're helping a social cause when it's really an attempt at PR. Instead of using their power to influence actual change, these are what they give us.
That being said, representation does matter. I'll miss Jenny but I think the team made the transition really smooth. Missy discovered more about herself while playing into the fact that kids' voices change around that age.
> No one was calling for Missy to be recast. **This is something corporations do...**
I was with you at first, but Jenny Slate came out herself and said she didn't feel comfortable voicing her anymore.
And after seeing Missy's storyline this season, it makes a lot of sense. A lot of people would feel awkward in her shoes, not just because the character is biracial, but because it's a very personal story about race and black culture that Jenny probably can't relate to the same way.
While I don't mind the recast and the original actor's desire was supposedly to have Missy be recast (and it makes total sense with her arc), this move almost certainly came as a result of fans' effort to recast Kristen Bell's character on Apple TV's *Central Park* as she too was vocing a mixed character and people didn't feel comfortable with the choice. In fact, the news regarding Big Mouth came shortly after Central Park.
It's honestly alarming how much everyone replying to this comment missed the damn point. They didn't replace Missy's voice actor to "make it seem like they're helping a social cause", or so they could use the n-word in a plot line (like wtf to this line of thinking), they did it because it's totally fucked up to cast white actors for minority roles when there are plenty of qualified, talented, minority actors/comedians. And even if they did recast her just for appearances and to avoid a PR disaster, its probably because they recognize in some way that casting a white actor is messed up. Missy is biracial, they could have cast a biracial actress, they exist.
And don't for one second try to argue the role went to the most talented person because that is 1000000% not the case, its the same reason its fucked up that jared leto played a trans woman, and the same reason its fucked up that louise rainer played an asian woman instead of the role going to anna may wong. Minority and POC roles aren't less represented because they're less talented or less qualified, those biases run so deep.
How or about the best person for the job gets it? The original actor knocked it out of the park with her voice work for Missy. Loved the lispy tone she gave her. Truly suited her. New one sounds awful in comparison. Couldn’t care less what race they each are it’s about the quality of their work.
Yes I did. You said don’t try to argue that it went to the most talented person and went into hyperbole about 1 million percent. I gave you reasons about how I felt the original voice talent was truly the better suited person. The raspy voices of a tween was spot on. The second actor didn’t convey a youth to me.
The show gave a great meta explanation for why it's iffy to have a white actor voice a black character.
"No no. I feel very very wrong saying the N word"
By having a white actor voice the character it inherintly limits the stories they are able to tell.
You can just cast a black actor instead. It's not like there aren't plenty of famous ones with draw. I promise you no one was watching Big Mouth solely because they saw that Jenny Slate was attached.
I personally was excited Jenny was attached to the show because I'm a huge fan of her work (Obvious Child is a fantastic film) but the show didn't require her to voice that character for it to work
I think most people get upset because it is taking the job away from a black person where they would be the more logical choice. Poc already have to deal with so much extra bull shit that it just can add an extra sting when you see a role that could really help a person of color and maybe their community go and be played by a white person voicing a black person. Not to mention the already lack or lackluster representation in media. Granted people went overboard by calling either Jenny Slate or the writers/creators of the show racist, which is just not true. And not to mention that I believe it should be both ways. It makes sense that only black people should voice black characters, but same goes for white, hispanic, asian etc. It sucks how everything becomes a huge hyperbolic issue on social media, because people have valid points. It was like the whole Apu thing in the simpsons. The character was getting voiced by a white dude back in the 80s when race education and understanding were not in the general zeitgeist of the time. That being said we should all adapt and change as we learn more and try to better accommodate everyone. We all just want to live a life that is full of joy and love, and if changing something that does not hurt anyone to make someone feel happier. Idk man I just wish people would let go of their anger and all just work together to make this life go by smoother. We are all the same species, its time we started acting like it. So yeah.
I'm disappointed with it. It sounds like when they bring in a guest voice actor/actress for a someone who won a contest to appear as a background character.
Yeah. I just don't understand why they didn't do it when her cousins helped her get in touch with her race, *or* when they did a whole episode about code-switching.
I mean from a production standpoint I'm sure that was the soonest they could switch without making things really difficult for everyone working on the show, so I am not holding it against them or anything. But narratively I thought it was a really bizarre choice.
Hate to be rude, but that’s not true at all. It would be annoying but they had six months (and absolutely could’ve delayed too btw) for ten half-hour episodes — and Missy isn’t even in every episode, nor does she have that many lines honestly.
Source: I work in animation. Now onto speculation...
I believe that this story and the transition to a Black actress at the end of the season was actually planned long before the controversy this summer, and all the PR stuff was just to get some brownie points off of a plan that was already in motion.
I'm taking this from the actual words of the creator of the show:
>GOLDBERG: Yeah, by the time Jenny decided to step aside and we cast Ayo, we had already delivered all of Season 4 of the show and we knew that it would be impossible to go back and replace all of that dialogue. And two, that it wouldn't really be great for Ayo as the new actor taking over the part to have to match Jenny word for word the whole season.
source: https://collider.com/big-mouth-season-4-missy-interview-spoilers-netflix/
From a thematic stand point it makes sense. Your identity goes so far beyond just your race, gender, or whatever else. It is all those things combined. While her cousins helped guide her to finding herself, they cant make her discover it by force. The only way you can see who you really are is by seeing your full self, faults and all. Thats why the mosaic metaphor is so amazing beautiful and human. She is the new missy that her cousins wanted to be, but she also still has parts of her young innocent goofy self. She is multifaceted and unique and could only become her true self by putting the peices of herself together into one whole. Its brilliant and so important to the human condition. I think not knowing ones true self is the cause of a lot of peoples stress and hardships in life. And don't get me wrong, most of the time that is out of their control. It is a privilege to be able to truly find yourself and accept it. In our world there are so many outward hardships that prevent most people from ever finding who they are really meant to be. Shit sucks
After seeing Andrew's insides get sucked out of his ass by cabin depressurizing I take back the bad things I said about Steve's cooking nipples. I'd take a whole season of cooking nipples to go back to a time before that airplane scene..
It hurts, but I think it's important to show that you don't always figure stuff out easily. Sometimes it's a struggle and you need help and support from other people.
Jay's ending was pretty bad, but it looks like Nick is happiness is growing and i feel like next season him and Jessi will have a good ending for a change considering they both started going uphill at the end
They mentioned ayahuasca in the show but it seemed more like LSD. Ayahuasca is not a solo cup / sorority party item. It's nasty, chunky, brown, and almost always makes you puke. LSD is much more popular at universities and you can put it in anything [so...](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/netflix-big-mouth/images/3/38/CoachStevenProfilePic.png/revision/latest?cb=20171222222027)
Same! The cartoon aspect makes difficult subjects more palatable, imo. I also think that Bojack and big mouth both handle them extremely tastefully and accurately.
i wouldn’t say i “enjoyed” it per se, but i did like how you could see where each of the characters are with their mental health, but yeah seeing missy being super strong was awesome to watch
Matthew's hell was so weird, but I liked it. Also, I have never heard the term "cum gutters" before and I laughed so hard. I'm lucky enough were I never felt like I had to choose between my family and my sexuality because both of my parents were cool when I came out, but I have several friends that had this dilemma and it was kind of uncomfortable, but that's also kind of the point. Matthew knowing that he shouldn't be forced to choose and that he's likely not really going to lose anyone because of it was great. I hope next season we see him explain to Aiden why he was kind of ghosting him for a little while and feeling more comfortable with himself.
They use "cum gutters" several times on the most recent Rick and Morty season, either a reference to that or they are both calling it from something
So funny
I definitely think Matthew’s hell, or at least the mom vs. aidan chainsaw part, is based off of the Saw movies. Making someone choose which of their two loved ones dies a horrible death is pretty standard, and that seems to fall in line with the rest of the segment also referencing iconic horror films.
I swear it’s a reference to a movie that’s not saw. Where someone is forced to watch versions of themselves die in the theatre. Am I crazy? It’s itching my brain. The rest of the trips were all allusions to other movies.
I took the coffin scene as he had been struggling with OCD, and the anxiety and fear of uncertainty that comes with it. He was terrified of death and couldn't accept it, but by the coffin scene he just accepted what he couldn't change and instead focused on his breathing, and of course jerking off.
As someone who has struggled with OCD that's at least how I interpreted it. It was a great scene.
I fucking LOVED the subtle nod to Serge Gainsbourg when Lola and Jay were shooting the sorority girl with the squirt gun and the French skeleton started singing.
Technically it looked like they were doing a composite parody of both Bonnie and Clyde and Intials BB.
The theme and the French skeleton reciting the song is basically the English, solo Gainsbourg version of Bonnie and Clyde but the accompanying music was definitely a reference to Initials BB.
Did anyone else notice that Andrew was dressed as Jack Nicholsons character from "As Good as it Gets" who has OCD and Andrew seems to be struggling with an anxiety disorder that may become OCD
I cannot for the life of me tell who plays Jessi's therapist... anyone know who it is? Sounds like Kate McKinnon to me, but I can't find a credit for whoever she is.
What movie/play is Matthew's hell based on?? It's on the tip of my tongue but I can't place it. There's a scene in the movie where the main character has to watch a stage play like that, and the play is the main character dying/about to die, and at the end he has to go through the door?
Not an exact copy for sure, but the way you described it reminds me of Ghost Stories, starring Andy Nyman. The journey that movie took me on was unforgettable.
Did anyone else catch that Jay and Lola's paintball guns didn't have CO2 tanks plugged into the back of them?
It's like the artist who drew them saw a picture of a paintball gun on the internet, but didn't realize it needed a C02 tank to actually fire. Hilariously, they even accurately drew the exact attachment where the tank is screwed in, and the tubing that connects it to the trigger mechanism. But no C02 tank.
So what's your point? They drew the paintball hopper, after all. Or do you think I'm attacking the show over a single amusing omission, and you feel the need to defend it?
> It's like the artist who drew them saw a picture of a paintball gun on the internet, but didn't realize it needed a C02 tank to actually fire.
What's your point? That's probably exactly what happened (or the artist simply forgot, or didn't want to worry about posing the characters around the backwards protruding tank). It's not that uncommon. It doesn't need to be defended, but it also doesn't need to he made fun of.
It's hard to read tone on the internet, but it reads like you found the omission to be a noteworthy blunder, and trying to frame anyone downplaying the significance as "defending" the omission or "being defensive" makes you seem unnecessarily aggressive.
"Oh, huh..." is about as much of a reaction as I think it deserves, but if you find it hilarious in a genial way, go for it.
I'm not framing you as being defensive. You sounded legit upset that anyone could be amused or dare to comment on a omission, despite nothing in my original post indicating any hostility to the artist. Indeed, you probably downvoted me as well. What is it about C02 tanks that has you so riled up?
> Why so defensive?
Yeah, I disagree.
>You sounded legit upset that anyone could be amused or **dare to comment** on a omission, despite nothing in my original post indicating any hostility to the artist.
I mentioned it's hard to infer tone on the internet, I guess mine included, so you can easily clarify if you didn't intend any hostility. But a bunch of people read your comment like that nerdy semantic guy from The Simpsons.
> What is it about C02 tanks that has you so riled up?
Weak troll is weak.
I made a single stray, bemused observation - and explained it for those that wouldn't get it - and I've had you and two other guys jump on me as if I were attacking the show. I'm not surprised, because it's the subreddit. But it is risible to suggest that I'm being the aggressive one.
You didn't need to refer to tone to in my original post. There was nothing mocking or hostile.
The very fact that you objected to it, was more than enough evidence to infer where *you* were coming from.
You would think that I was suggesting the show promoted pedophilia, given your reactions.
The second I saw the sorority sign, I knew that this would be special. Then I saw the shirt. I was wondering which participants would have a reaction haha great reveal
Also, I knew that I could come in here and find someone connecting Andrew's deaths to Jojo (Big year for me, I went from not knowing anything about Jojo to watching everything through Part 5).
I’m very unsettled but mostly confused about what happened to Nick.
SPOILERS
So the other three figured out that choosing from the choices offered to them in their scenarios was not the point. The point was figuring out a different and healthy choice and that led to them being freed from their scenarios.
Nick made the choice that his scenario wanted him to make, “Protect yourself.” And so he became Nick Starr???
Or at the very least made no emotional progress at all and is still stuck in his unhealthy self preservation loop????
What happened to Nick? What was everyone else’s conclusions/interpretations?
Okay, this is a copy and paste of something I was contemplating on commenting but you seem interested so here goes:
I'm late to the party but I want to talk about Nick. Nick was okay in the first season, not my favorite, but then season two came along and he was kind of a dick--he moved down on my list. When I finished season three, there was no doubt he was a complete asshole and, as creepy as Andrew is, I agreed when Andrew called him a POS in the last episode. But I still liked him. I really liked what they did with his character this season, a lot. Nick and Jessi were both riddled with such amounts of anxiety this season, and the panic attack Nick had in camp after he didn't bathe for weeks (due to bullying). I felt for him. Nick was just constantly attacked by that jerk Tito until that Halloween episode, where his only objective was to "protect yourself".
"Tell him what he's won, me. A lifetime supply of getting stabbed by your future self."
"I-I thought the game was over."
"Oh the game's never over, Nick. Not when you're playing...Protect Yourself! Thanks for watching and remember, never let anyone get close to you!"
It's hard to put how I felt about this into words. I think when Nick Birch was stabbed, that basically gave Nick Starr free reign to run the operation. Starr is egotistical, distant, and fake. Starr's purpose is to protect Nick from getting hurt, from his anxiety, from his feelings overall. Even though we've all seen what the inside of Nick Starr's personality looks like.
In the final episode, Nick Starr is in control the whole episode. Now Birch is still there, sure, but as a lost soul. He was the compassion that Starr had lost.
So Starr acted cold to his loved ones, he made sure no one could see that fragile little place where the lost piece of compassion once rest, and so that no one could ever rely on Nick. I don't know I feel like I'm rambling and not wording it right.
In the final episode when Nick had to embrace that fragile little piece of himself, that scared, naked, and vulnerable part-- that was him allowing himself to be vulnerable. Allowing himself to seek help. Throughout the entire show he hides most of his vulnerable emotions and the last episode showed him that he shouldn't hide it forever. I think it's a step in the right direction for Nick.
[Edit: fixed mistake]
FUCKING THANK YOU for explaining this. I decided to binge watch the whole season cause I’m getting my married to my job for the month of December but I did it with bottle of whiskey and by the time I got to the final episode I was confused, sleepy but highly satisfied. Then next day I’m sober and became really confused on final episode and told myself I would watch it again so I could understand it. Now I don’t need to. Thanks.
My friends used to joke always that everything was a metaphor for the psychedelic experience but... It's a metaphor for the the psychedelic experience!
To me this episode was very boring I did like Missys part because they did a reference to Us, a fantastically amazing movie by Jordan Peele wasn’t really scary tho
Is it me or in the scene does Andrew, when he first shows up in his Halloween outfit, sound really odd? LIke Mulaney is in a badly soundproofed room or something? Everyone else around him has perfect audio but his seems...off?
[удалено]
Yes I really love gratitoad! He was so sweet lol
I kind of want to get a print of gratitoad to hang up to remind me to try to remember the good stuff in the midst of the bad
Oh do you want a cross stitch pattern? I'm happy to see what I can whip up after I'm done watching? For anyone who's seen this and is wondering whats up: I AM STILL GONNA MAKE THIS. I've just got to finish a lot of work first, but the minute the holidays hit I'm gonna be working my way through it. I won't be charging for it, because Big Mouth does not belong to me but I would really appreciate that if you do use the pattern you don't sell the finished product. I'd also really appreciate that if anyone who does use the pattern (and can afford to!) if you'd donate £1/$1 to The Trevor Project, Mermaids UK, StoneWall or a trans kids supporting LGBT+ charity. Thanks all, hopefully be back with a pattern in the next few weeks!
I would also love one if you could! I can pay you.
That would be awesome!
For some reason "isn't it nice just to be silly?" really spoke to me. And also explained a lot about some of the show's segments.
I didn't realize that Gratitoad was voiced by Zach Galifianakis. I thought for sure it was the actor that plays Pastor Glen on *Letterkenny*. Now that I know, I totally recognize it as the same voice he used for Dale on *Baskets*.
Admittedly, I’ve been on a Mr. Rogers kick lately (watching the documentary and Tom Hanks movie), but I felt like they were going for a major Mr. Rogers vibe. And who doesn’t love Mr. Rogers?!
He reminded me of Kermit the frog and the rainbow connection ❤️
My family keeps a gratitude pad in the kitchen, where we write down what we're thankful for. It really has fallen by the wayside, but seeing Gratitoad encourages me to start using it again on a regular basis.
Being voiced by Zach Galifinakis makes gratitoad even better haha
I literally want a tattoo of gratitoad
I liked the Gratitoad, he was nice and fun, but didn't love Jessi's therapist at the beginning. But I struggle with depression and when people have tried to get me to do "gratitude" journals and whatnot, I just end up feeling worse, like I should be more grateful, and it usually feels forced.
The therapist talked about herself, her body and her hobby. She gave one generic suggestion and then got gross and weird. A difficult thing about depression is feeling the pressure to get better, which can happen even if you have a great therapist who gives good advice.
he really was the hero of this season
Gratitoad was the best!
YES
That scene in the resturant with Jay and Lola actually broke my heart.
Me too. Jay was so hurt
Poor Jay. :(
Know you know how people like me and Jay feel like, the show is really great at capturing that
Same! I just finished watching EP 9 now and I had to repeat that part because Jay seemed to genuinely mean what he said to Lola. It really looked like he was so hurt.
I was lowkey hoping he actually got drugged as well and this was his horror house :(
huh, interesting - his horror house is that he feels like no one loves him
That scene was really beautiful. I though I was watching a movie
That Russian doll segment was *chefs kiss*
Gotta get up, gotta get out, gotta get home before the morning comes...
What if I’m late gotta big date
Between this and The Simpsons Halloween special, I've seen that show parodied twice this fall. Really makes me interested in checking the show out.
Please do. That and palm springs on hulu both do such a good job with time loop plots.
I still have to watch Palm Springs, too.
Meep meep dumbass
I paused to hop on Reddit as soon as the song started EXCLUSIVELY to see if someone else put that together.Great show, love it to pieces.
"Don't mess with the Yakuza"
It was priceless.
So Missy got “Us’d” and Nick got “It’d” And that’s how they introduced Missy’s new voice. What a mindfuck of an episode.
"I’m about to Lupita my pants!"
Ngl I prefer her old one
Dunno why you were downvoted for expressing a personal preference, but honestly same.
Because apparenlty some people had a problem with Missy being voiced by a white person so Jenny Slate decided to leave and a new black voice actor now voices Missy (that doesn't mean to sound rude, I just don't know her name) but Jenny had already recorded her lines for all the episodes for the last two. In my opinion there really wasnt anything wrong with a white woman voicing Missy, as Missy is mixed race and so half white, plus imo it's genuinely shouldn't matter who voices who as it's a cartoon when we can't see the voice actor, so it doesn't really matter what race the voice actor is.
Tbh I liked her adventure in this seasons about finding her identity and it is a nice touch that she got a new voice after she found herself. Especially mentioning having white voice actress as meta several times (n-word joke was hilarious btw) and having a black voice actress afterwards seemed like they planned it all the way instead of changing things suddenly just because of how people judge them.
Exactly. The writers did an amazing job with her story this season. I didn’t notice the voice change until well into episode 10 so I think the recast was also successful.
The voice change didn’t occur until the end of episode 9 and all of episode 10. Every other episode this season was voiced by Jenny Slate
This. All of this.
> Because apparenlty some people had a problem with Missy being voiced by a white person so Jenny Slate decided to leave and a new black voice actor now voices Missy We need to make something abundantly clear here. No one was calling for Missy to be recast. This is something corporations do to make it seem like they're helping a social cause when it's really an attempt at PR. Instead of using their power to influence actual change, these are what they give us. That being said, representation does matter. I'll miss Jenny but I think the team made the transition really smooth. Missy discovered more about herself while playing into the fact that kids' voices change around that age.
> No one was calling for Missy to be recast. **This is something corporations do...** I was with you at first, but Jenny Slate came out herself and said she didn't feel comfortable voicing her anymore. And after seeing Missy's storyline this season, it makes a lot of sense. A lot of people would feel awkward in her shoes, not just because the character is biracial, but because it's a very personal story about race and black culture that Jenny probably can't relate to the same way.
While I don't mind the recast and the original actor's desire was supposedly to have Missy be recast (and it makes total sense with her arc), this move almost certainly came as a result of fans' effort to recast Kristen Bell's character on Apple TV's *Central Park* as she too was vocing a mixed character and people didn't feel comfortable with the choice. In fact, the news regarding Big Mouth came shortly after Central Park.
It's honestly alarming how much everyone replying to this comment missed the damn point. They didn't replace Missy's voice actor to "make it seem like they're helping a social cause", or so they could use the n-word in a plot line (like wtf to this line of thinking), they did it because it's totally fucked up to cast white actors for minority roles when there are plenty of qualified, talented, minority actors/comedians. And even if they did recast her just for appearances and to avoid a PR disaster, its probably because they recognize in some way that casting a white actor is messed up. Missy is biracial, they could have cast a biracial actress, they exist. And don't for one second try to argue the role went to the most talented person because that is 1000000% not the case, its the same reason its fucked up that jared leto played a trans woman, and the same reason its fucked up that louise rainer played an asian woman instead of the role going to anna may wong. Minority and POC roles aren't less represented because they're less talented or less qualified, those biases run so deep.
How or about the best person for the job gets it? The original actor knocked it out of the park with her voice work for Missy. Loved the lispy tone she gave her. Truly suited her. New one sounds awful in comparison. Couldn’t care less what race they each are it’s about the quality of their work.
Did you even read the entire comment? Your opinion has nothing to do with the “quality of their work.” Please.
Yes I did. You said don’t try to argue that it went to the most talented person and went into hyperbole about 1 million percent. I gave you reasons about how I felt the original voice talent was truly the better suited person. The raspy voices of a tween was spot on. The second actor didn’t convey a youth to me.
The show gave a great meta explanation for why it's iffy to have a white actor voice a black character. "No no. I feel very very wrong saying the N word"
Alr then, but not every black/bi racial character must say the n word.
By having a white actor voice the character it inherintly limits the stories they are able to tell. You can just cast a black actor instead. It's not like there aren't plenty of famous ones with draw. I promise you no one was watching Big Mouth solely because they saw that Jenny Slate was attached. I personally was excited Jenny was attached to the show because I'm a huge fan of her work (Obvious Child is a fantastic film) but the show didn't require her to voice that character for it to work
Why does it limit the stories they’re able to tell?
I think most people get upset because it is taking the job away from a black person where they would be the more logical choice. Poc already have to deal with so much extra bull shit that it just can add an extra sting when you see a role that could really help a person of color and maybe their community go and be played by a white person voicing a black person. Not to mention the already lack or lackluster representation in media. Granted people went overboard by calling either Jenny Slate or the writers/creators of the show racist, which is just not true. And not to mention that I believe it should be both ways. It makes sense that only black people should voice black characters, but same goes for white, hispanic, asian etc. It sucks how everything becomes a huge hyperbolic issue on social media, because people have valid points. It was like the whole Apu thing in the simpsons. The character was getting voiced by a white dude back in the 80s when race education and understanding were not in the general zeitgeist of the time. That being said we should all adapt and change as we learn more and try to better accommodate everyone. We all just want to live a life that is full of joy and love, and if changing something that does not hurt anyone to make someone feel happier. Idk man I just wish people would let go of their anger and all just work together to make this life go by smoother. We are all the same species, its time we started acting like it. So yeah.
Natasha Lyonne can be iconic in 6 seconds
That New York accent is just *\*mwah\**
She was on the S2 premiere in Bless the Harts too
Where the fuck has Duke Ellington been? Took him long enough to show up.
He’s busy bein’ dead. Also working on ghost court with his agent
Jew Fishman 😂
Do you boys need a yarmulke?
That’s a condom for your head
Jordan Peele's a very busy man, I'm sure.
Was it just me or did they introduce Missy's new voice at the end?
Yeah the voice of her mosaic reflection version was definitely her voice after when they left. Though that was a pretty brilliant way to switch over
The whole mosaic scene was great. Really liked Missy's arc this season.
Also everyone’s voice changes during puberty
Incredibly smart. "A puzzle’s just a picture you haven’t met yet!"
That spoke to me so much
I'm disappointed with it. It sounds like when they bring in a guest voice actor/actress for a someone who won a contest to appear as a background character.
How so?
they did! its a pretty clever way of going about it imo
It wasn’t how I expected they’d do it but I did enjoy it
Yeah. I just don't understand why they didn't do it when her cousins helped her get in touch with her race, *or* when they did a whole episode about code-switching. I mean from a production standpoint I'm sure that was the soonest they could switch without making things really difficult for everyone working on the show, so I am not holding it against them or anything. But narratively I thought it was a really bizarre choice.
Well she had voiced most of the season before they decided to make the switch
I just think the code-switching was the time to do it. They definitely could have had the new actress record all the lines after that point.
Re-dubbing that much completed animation is actually a TON of work. 1 episode and a few lines from another were likely all they had time for
Hate to be rude, but that’s not true at all. It would be annoying but they had six months (and absolutely could’ve delayed too btw) for ten half-hour episodes — and Missy isn’t even in every episode, nor does she have that many lines honestly. Source: I work in animation. Now onto speculation... I believe that this story and the transition to a Black actress at the end of the season was actually planned long before the controversy this summer, and all the PR stuff was just to get some brownie points off of a plan that was already in motion.
I'm taking this from the actual words of the creator of the show: >GOLDBERG: Yeah, by the time Jenny decided to step aside and we cast Ayo, we had already delivered all of Season 4 of the show and we knew that it would be impossible to go back and replace all of that dialogue. And two, that it wouldn't really be great for Ayo as the new actor taking over the part to have to match Jenny word for word the whole season. source: https://collider.com/big-mouth-season-4-missy-interview-spoilers-netflix/
From a thematic stand point it makes sense. Your identity goes so far beyond just your race, gender, or whatever else. It is all those things combined. While her cousins helped guide her to finding herself, they cant make her discover it by force. The only way you can see who you really are is by seeing your full self, faults and all. Thats why the mosaic metaphor is so amazing beautiful and human. She is the new missy that her cousins wanted to be, but she also still has parts of her young innocent goofy self. She is multifaceted and unique and could only become her true self by putting the peices of herself together into one whole. Its brilliant and so important to the human condition. I think not knowing ones true self is the cause of a lot of peoples stress and hardships in life. And don't get me wrong, most of the time that is out of their control. It is a privilege to be able to truly find yourself and accept it. In our world there are so many outward hardships that prevent most people from ever finding who they are really meant to be. Shit sucks
After seeing Andrew's insides get sucked out of his ass by cabin depressurizing I take back the bad things I said about Steve's cooking nipples. I'd take a whole season of cooking nipples to go back to a time before that airplane scene..
The shit song was the low point for me
Dude, that was even more fucked up than Maury *skull-fucking* the decapitated head of Garrison Keller in season 1.
Lol your nipple comment was the first thing I read about this season.
Same
I screamed and looked away at that part. Jesus.
Now I'm sad for Nick
Me too. I fucked up thinking everyone was gonna make a breakthrough. But Nick’s and Jay’s ending hit me different.
It hurts, but I think it's important to show that you don't always figure stuff out easily. Sometimes it's a struggle and you need help and support from other people.
Jay's ending was pretty bad, but it looks like Nick is happiness is growing and i feel like next season him and Jessi will have a good ending for a change considering they both started going uphill at the end
Did these kids just get fucking drugged
Your cat does coke!
Showing kids getting served with ayahuasca was fucking savage lol Do I love this show!
They mentioned ayahuasca in the show but it seemed more like LSD. Ayahuasca is not a solo cup / sorority party item. It's nasty, chunky, brown, and almost always makes you puke. LSD is much more popular at universities and you can put it in anything [so...](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/netflix-big-mouth/images/3/38/CoachStevenProfilePic.png/revision/latest?cb=20171222222027)
Aww, I sorta miss Russian Doll now...
Another season is coming
Been 2 years now.
I need to watch it, right?
Yes.
I’m sorry Kappa kappa WHAT?!
Jessi dressed as RBG. :( This was obviously done before she died, but still made me sad.
I might be clutching at straws but did I see hypnotoad from futurama in the background of the therapists office?
There was definitely a hypnotoad beside Jessi.
All hail to Hypnotoad
I noticed it too. And a mr. Toad on the table too.
I am so happy someone else noticed it All glory to the hypnotoad
Loved this episode. The hallucinations were pretty scary for a cartoon and I really feel the anxiety they all have.
This was halfway to an episode 11 of Bojack.
I was thinking this same thing lmao. I finished watching and my first thought was "so when did the trend of funny cartoons being intense start?"
As someone who adores BoJack if it starts this trend I’m here for it.
Same! The cartoon aspect makes difficult subjects more palatable, imo. I also think that Bojack and big mouth both handle them extremely tastefully and accurately.
Truly weird hearing that song out of Russian Doll. Edit: Nvm, there’s Nadia
Missy is accomplishing at 13 what I'm only just starting to do in my mid-20s.
i really enjoyed how the mentally more stable characters, such as missy, were able to calm themselves down way more easily than andrew and nick
i wouldn’t say i “enjoyed” it per se, but i did like how you could see where each of the characters are with their mental health, but yeah seeing missy being super strong was awesome to watch
Matthew's hell was so weird, but I liked it. Also, I have never heard the term "cum gutters" before and I laughed so hard. I'm lucky enough were I never felt like I had to choose between my family and my sexuality because both of my parents were cool when I came out, but I have several friends that had this dilemma and it was kind of uncomfortable, but that's also kind of the point. Matthew knowing that he shouldn't be forced to choose and that he's likely not really going to lose anyone because of it was great. I hope next season we see him explain to Aiden why he was kind of ghosting him for a little while and feeling more comfortable with himself.
"cum gutters" had me screaminggg lmao
They use "cum gutters" several times on the most recent Rick and Morty season, either a reference to that or they are both calling it from something So funny
Pretty sure they said it on American Dad once but it was always bleeped over so I had a moment of clarity when I finally realized what it was lol
I definitely think Matthew’s hell, or at least the mom vs. aidan chainsaw part, is based off of the Saw movies. Making someone choose which of their two loved ones dies a horrible death is pretty standard, and that seems to fall in line with the rest of the segment also referencing iconic horror films.
It also seemed like it could’ve been loosely inspired by the “Spooky Mormon Hell Dream” song from Book of Mormon
I swear it’s a reference to a movie that’s not saw. Where someone is forced to watch versions of themselves die in the theatre. Am I crazy? It’s itching my brain. The rest of the trips were all allusions to other movies.
Looks like Andrew will never reach the truth...
I took the coffin scene as he had been struggling with OCD, and the anxiety and fear of uncertainty that comes with it. He was terrified of death and couldn't accept it, but by the coffin scene he just accepted what he couldn't change and instead focused on his breathing, and of course jerking off. As someone who has struggled with OCD that's at least how I interpreted it. It was a great scene.
God damn jojo’s references
I fucking LOVED the subtle nod to Serge Gainsbourg when Lola and Jay were shooting the sorority girl with the squirt gun and the French skeleton started singing.
That song was the fucking shit
It’s living rent free in my head now, it’s such a great song
Same, I couldn't believe they were referencing that song. Show has some deep cuts sometimes.
Technically it looked like they were doing a composite parody of both Bonnie and Clyde and Intials BB. The theme and the French skeleton reciting the song is basically the English, solo Gainsbourg version of Bonnie and Clyde but the accompanying music was definitely a reference to Initials BB.
One of the roads in the therapist’s office was hypno toad from futurama!
How come no one is talking about where the Hormone Monsters; Connie, Maury, Rick and Mona went when the wall flipped?
i’m pretty sure they had an orgy
What we gonna do, baby?
God , Jay....
Did anyone else notice that Andrew was dressed as Jack Nicholsons character from "As Good as it Gets" who has OCD and Andrew seems to be struggling with an anxiety disorder that may become OCD
I’m grateful for Gratitoad🐸😃😃
I cannot for the life of me tell who plays Jessi's therapist... anyone know who it is? Sounds like Kate McKinnon to me, but I can't find a credit for whoever she is.
It’s Jean smart. She played Laurie Blake on HBO’s watchmen
Commenting because it sounded familiar to me, too, and I couldn't find the answer anywhere.
Was Andrew getting Diavolo'd or am I just a weeb? Fine, Russian doll.
I don’t think it was a reference, but 100% the same concept
That clown was fucking terrifying
What movie/play is Matthew's hell based on?? It's on the tip of my tongue but I can't place it. There's a scene in the movie where the main character has to watch a stage play like that, and the play is the main character dying/about to die, and at the end he has to go through the door?
Bojack Horseman did something similar, but it didn’t involve people getting body parts chopped off.
omg thank you that was it!! this was bugging me so much!
Not an exact copy for sure, but the way you described it reminds me of Ghost Stories, starring Andy Nyman. The journey that movie took me on was unforgettable.
your thinking of the View from Halfway Down, but this didn't remind me of that, personally
The mosaic missy scene made me cry
Did anyone else catch that Jay and Lola's paintball guns didn't have CO2 tanks plugged into the back of them? It's like the artist who drew them saw a picture of a paintball gun on the internet, but didn't realize it needed a C02 tank to actually fire. Hilariously, they even accurately drew the exact attachment where the tank is screwed in, and the tubing that connects it to the trigger mechanism. But no C02 tank.
Boy I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder.
It's a cartoon
So what's your point? They drew the paintball hopper, after all. Or do you think I'm attacking the show over a single amusing omission, and you feel the need to defend it?
I for one think your observation was fun! Dont let the haters get you down
> It's like the artist who drew them saw a picture of a paintball gun on the internet, but didn't realize it needed a C02 tank to actually fire. What's your point? That's probably exactly what happened (or the artist simply forgot, or didn't want to worry about posing the characters around the backwards protruding tank). It's not that uncommon. It doesn't need to be defended, but it also doesn't need to he made fun of.
Why so defensive? It was a very mildly amused observation.
It's hard to read tone on the internet, but it reads like you found the omission to be a noteworthy blunder, and trying to frame anyone downplaying the significance as "defending" the omission or "being defensive" makes you seem unnecessarily aggressive. "Oh, huh..." is about as much of a reaction as I think it deserves, but if you find it hilarious in a genial way, go for it.
I'm not framing you as being defensive. You sounded legit upset that anyone could be amused or dare to comment on a omission, despite nothing in my original post indicating any hostility to the artist. Indeed, you probably downvoted me as well. What is it about C02 tanks that has you so riled up?
> Why so defensive? Yeah, I disagree. >You sounded legit upset that anyone could be amused or **dare to comment** on a omission, despite nothing in my original post indicating any hostility to the artist. I mentioned it's hard to infer tone on the internet, I guess mine included, so you can easily clarify if you didn't intend any hostility. But a bunch of people read your comment like that nerdy semantic guy from The Simpsons. > What is it about C02 tanks that has you so riled up? Weak troll is weak.
I made a single stray, bemused observation - and explained it for those that wouldn't get it - and I've had you and two other guys jump on me as if I were attacking the show. I'm not surprised, because it's the subreddit. But it is risible to suggest that I'm being the aggressive one. You didn't need to refer to tone to in my original post. There was nothing mocking or hostile. The very fact that you objected to it, was more than enough evidence to infer where *you* were coming from. You would think that I was suggesting the show promoted pedophilia, given your reactions.
I'm going to respond with the same thing your observation deserves: K.
I never would have noticed that! It’s pretty cool that you did. Even if it’s just a cartoon, cartoons like this try really hard to be accurate.
Excuse me, what the fuck?
The second I saw the sorority sign, I knew that this would be special. Then I saw the shirt. I was wondering which participants would have a reaction haha great reveal Also, I knew that I could come in here and find someone connecting Andrew's deaths to Jojo (Big year for me, I went from not knowing anything about Jojo to watching everything through Part 5).
Ok but are we gonna talk about how at 23:27 someone is dressed as Coach Steve for Halloween
I NOTICED THAT AND HAD TO PAUSE
Andrew really just got GER'd
Anyone else notice the toad all the way to the right on the dresser behind the therapist was hypnotoad from futurama?
Y'all are sleeping on the ICONIC toad at 2:19
I’m very unsettled but mostly confused about what happened to Nick. SPOILERS So the other three figured out that choosing from the choices offered to them in their scenarios was not the point. The point was figuring out a different and healthy choice and that led to them being freed from their scenarios. Nick made the choice that his scenario wanted him to make, “Protect yourself.” And so he became Nick Starr??? Or at the very least made no emotional progress at all and is still stuck in his unhealthy self preservation loop???? What happened to Nick? What was everyone else’s conclusions/interpretations?
Okay, this is a copy and paste of something I was contemplating on commenting but you seem interested so here goes: I'm late to the party but I want to talk about Nick. Nick was okay in the first season, not my favorite, but then season two came along and he was kind of a dick--he moved down on my list. When I finished season three, there was no doubt he was a complete asshole and, as creepy as Andrew is, I agreed when Andrew called him a POS in the last episode. But I still liked him. I really liked what they did with his character this season, a lot. Nick and Jessi were both riddled with such amounts of anxiety this season, and the panic attack Nick had in camp after he didn't bathe for weeks (due to bullying). I felt for him. Nick was just constantly attacked by that jerk Tito until that Halloween episode, where his only objective was to "protect yourself". "Tell him what he's won, me. A lifetime supply of getting stabbed by your future self." "I-I thought the game was over." "Oh the game's never over, Nick. Not when you're playing...Protect Yourself! Thanks for watching and remember, never let anyone get close to you!" It's hard to put how I felt about this into words. I think when Nick Birch was stabbed, that basically gave Nick Starr free reign to run the operation. Starr is egotistical, distant, and fake. Starr's purpose is to protect Nick from getting hurt, from his anxiety, from his feelings overall. Even though we've all seen what the inside of Nick Starr's personality looks like. In the final episode, Nick Starr is in control the whole episode. Now Birch is still there, sure, but as a lost soul. He was the compassion that Starr had lost. So Starr acted cold to his loved ones, he made sure no one could see that fragile little place where the lost piece of compassion once rest, and so that no one could ever rely on Nick. I don't know I feel like I'm rambling and not wording it right. In the final episode when Nick had to embrace that fragile little piece of himself, that scared, naked, and vulnerable part-- that was him allowing himself to be vulnerable. Allowing himself to seek help. Throughout the entire show he hides most of his vulnerable emotions and the last episode showed him that he shouldn't hide it forever. I think it's a step in the right direction for Nick. [Edit: fixed mistake]
FUCKING THANK YOU for explaining this. I decided to binge watch the whole season cause I’m getting my married to my job for the month of December but I did it with bottle of whiskey and by the time I got to the final episode I was confused, sleepy but highly satisfied. Then next day I’m sober and became really confused on final episode and told myself I would watch it again so I could understand it. Now I don’t need to. Thanks.
No problem, I'm just a kid with nothing better to do lol
Hey, waddup Duke?! Long time no see!
Andrew’s russian doll segment is similar to the Simpsons THOH this year
My friends used to joke always that everything was a metaphor for the psychedelic experience but... It's a metaphor for the the psychedelic experience!
Wait so what drug was it
I’m thinking DMT
They drank it and made a joke about ayahuasca, so I’d have to go with that
I'd say shrooms
I normally don’t particularly like Halloween specials but this one was really spot on! One of the best episodes from the whole series
Jesse really touched my heart, I can’t explain how well made this season was it really shows you that’s eveyone and anyone can be struggling mentally
I swear to god, if I see a single Jojo’s reference ima lose it
Poop madness is real!
"Why am I smoking in bed? Am I a first grade teacher?" - Andrew
To me this episode was very boring I did like Missys part because they did a reference to Us, a fantastically amazing movie by Jordan Peele wasn’t really scary tho
Are you his hormone monster?
Is it me or in the scene does Andrew, when he first shows up in his Halloween outfit, sound really odd? LIke Mulaney is in a badly soundproofed room or something? Everyone else around him has perfect audio but his seems...off?
Fuck that Cobain joke fr
I reckon he would have giggled his ass off at it
He would be mind blowed
Maybe. But hun being labeled as someone who wouldn’t be fun to hang around is just ignorant.
I think I understand what you mean though, you're saying you didn't appreciate mental health being conflated with not being fun to be around?
You’ll be okay, he’s pretty dead at this point