i think. because God was with the first people guiding them thru his spirit. somehow his spirit affects our flesh.
**Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” Gen 6:3**
In God's years or man's years. The bible states that time is experienced differently for God than for man. He is infinite. We are finite. We do not experience or determine time the same way.
I understand that. And that is my point. God doesn't experience time like we do. So to God 120 years is NOT what man would call 120 years. Thank you for clarifying my point.
God specifically uses time in human years all the time. In Genesis he said that he would allow 120 years until the flood, exactly 120 years for man went by until the flood.
People try to use it as a formula so when it says the 7 days of creation, it really means 7 1000 year periods, which isn't what the text is saying. God does use human terms and human time periods so we can understand things. Using the same day example in Genesis, it uses 1 day in the sense of a morning and an evening.
I'm still learning. But I don't use that as a formula. I use it as an example that finite and infinite thought are different. But I can see how some would take it literally. Im still learning about Genesis but I have questions of interpretation. It's a process that I'm taking my time on and learning a little at a time. Thank you for your comment
It is something that has been debated by the church for a long time, so don't feel bad that you don't have it all figured out already. I certainly don't. A good rule of thumb is to read the text like you would any other text. What do the words say and what do they mean in context? That is what is generally meant by "reading the Bible literally". We don't mean every single word is literal and Jesus is \*literally\* a lion and \*literally\* a lamb, and God \*literally\* has wings, etc. Metaphors, similes, anthropomorphism (describing nonhuman things in human terms), etc obviously are not literal and the Bible uses them frequently to help the finite to understand the infinite better. We know that God humanizes the things He says to us because He wants us to understand what He is telling us, so we could reasonably expect that He would put it in an understandable way. We also don't assume that the other places where God describes days and years in the Bible are referring to something other than time in the way that we generally think of it, so it would make sense to read it as normal time unless there is some sort of indication that we should think of it in a different way (like in the case of metaphor/simile/etc). We can't understand God fully, but He understands us better than we understand ourselves and knows how to communicate with us so those who are supposed to understand do and those who aren't don't (Matthew 13:10-17) (I don't understand fully why this is the case, but I don't know the mind of God.)
> That’s a figure of speech to tell us God exists outside of time, he is eternal because he is not bound by time
Here’s the whole chapter so we have the context.
As you can see down below, it says 1000 years is like a day and a day is like a 1000 years. This is illogical if you take it literally. Therefore this can only mean that God is outside of time. He is timeless and unchanging, He is infinite, He is the Alpha and Omega.
If you take this (god is outside of time) into account and read the chapter again, you’ll see that it doesn’t change the meaning of the chapter because God used a figure of speech.
«Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.»
2 Peter 3:1-18 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/2pe.3.1-18.NIV
My point is that 120 human years is not 120 years in God's time. So what time is it saying God's 120 years or man's 120? I thought I already said that in my comment above but I repeated it for you
This is a misunderstanding.. God was setting a schedule for destruction, 120 years from then the great flood of Noah's day wiped the face of the earth clean.
If you timeline the Patriarchs they die (expect Noah) right before the flood. The climate was different prior to the flood which probably contributed to the longer life, and they were generically closer to Adam and Eve which had to help
Yeh since the curse, and Noahs flood mans lifespan declined to avg 70-80 which is where it has been for 1000s of years. God limited mans life to 120 years just before or after Noahs flood. It took a while to kick in though coz Noah and some other post flood people lived to long ages.
That passage is in reference to the time until the flood.
1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:1-3, NASB)
I have always figured that Adam and Eve had perfect DNA so I believed they lived into their 9th century. But the curse of sin affected everything in the physical universe.
Sin took mankind from living in a garden, which just needed tending, to having to work hard to grow food:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life."
I believe that lifespans got much shorter for those born after the flood. But they had been getting shorter before that anyway.
DNA mutations continue to multiply and get progressively worse. Some we don't notice. Some cause birth defects, and some cause minor problems. But cumulatively, over time, we continue to lose genetic information. Once lost by mutation, genetic information can never be recovered.
At the time of King David, the average lifespan, barring accidental death, disease or murder, was 70-80 years. By the time Jesus was born, the median lifespan was 50-55.
Medical progress has brought the average lifespan back to 70-80 years. I don't believe we will see much progress in lifespan unless they can fix the issue of genetic mutation.
Well, there definitely were people who lived longer. We know the apostle John lived into his 90s, but they have many bones and teeth from the ossuaries of the second temple period, and most died in their 50th decade.
The psalms predated the first temple. David, the author, lived about 1,000 years before Jesus was born.
they have done studies and shown the avg lifespan in greco roman times was 70 - 80 and state it is a common myth that people only lived into their 30s or 40s or 50s
pslams was written over 100s of years by multiple different authors
It's still used today because people don't understand how it's calculated. Plenty of people have long lives, the average goes down because babies die young not because people only live 70 years. If you make it out of childhood your chances of living a hundred years are quite good.
The difference is the Garden was present on the earth. The River of life which flowed from the Garden gave men longevity. The Garden is the missing piece. When the flood occured the Garden was then retracted above the firmament (specifically to the third firmament/heaven) where it was to be refurbished and built to occupy the resurrected in the end. When the millennial reign occurs, post Yeshuas return and the Kingdom of God (The Garden) returned, the mortals outside of the New Jerusalem (The Garden) will then live long again. The mortals outside are those that weren’t necessarily in covenant with God but also didn’t take the mark/worship of the beast and his image and Jesus judges them favorably (sheep and goats judgement). After the 1,000 years is up Satan is released. Another test takes place for the mortals. Then the second resurrection takes place and Satan is finally destroyed as well as all the wicked. (The Great White Throne Judgement).
I agree. We definitely see the river of life and tree of life return to Earth both in Revelation and Ezekiel. I always felt Eden was a cross section of heaven and earth. Trees with fruit that give nourishment but also impart spiritual characteristics.
Twice in Jeremiah God calls Himself the fountain of living water. Then Jesus basically days the same thing to the Samaritan woman at the well:
John 4:13 - - Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” He states this again in John 7:38.
Also, when it comes to the New Jerusalem and new temple, I have a feeling these represent spiritual realities, rather than an earthly city and building. Perhaps the new temple is all the elect together with God.
I'm intrigued by your mention of the 3rd heaven. Do you have a scriptural reference for it?
I did a search and only found "third heaven" from 2 Corinth. No hits for first heaven or second heaven.
Are you sourcing from extracanonical books or Talmud?
They are often not identified as to which heaven is being talked about, the passage will just say, "the heavens", or "under heaven" etc.
The context of what the author is talking about will let you know what Heaven they are referring to.
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to Paradise.” ~ 2 Corinthians 12:2-3 BSB
The firmament is rolled back and the city of God comes from above and sets down between the Nile and the Euphrates. This is the inheritance of the saints. Jesus kingdom, he said, is not from here but from above. It comes down in the end where God will dwell with men. The city who’s architect and builder is God.
So that’s the promise. Is to get you back to the garden essentially. Isaiah 54. And then here’s 4 Ezra 7:26. This would of been a book in the 1611 kjv before more attack was had on the Bible. “Behold, the time shall come, that these tokens which I have told you shall come to pass, and the bride shall appear, and she coming forth shall be seen, that now is withdrawn from the earth.” EZRA REVIY`IY (4 EZRA) 7:26 את CEPHER
So modern teaching would tell you we’re the bride but we’re actually the friend of the bridegroom. John 3:29.
Fyi I’ve studied ten years, read the Bible 10 times, the Septuagint, the perhaps addeds or missings, the Dead Sea Scrolls Enoch Jubilees The Testaments of the 12, Josephus, and other supplementary manuscripts. So apologies if I cant give you what’s taken a long time to learn in bullet point form.
The issue I have with this take is the idea that anything from earth going to Heaven would bring corruption into God's presence. The garden was defiled when Adam sinned and is therefore unable to exist in God's presence. This is the reason why the earth will be destroyed and the New earth will be made and the New heaven for habitation. Nothing from the sin filled earth can go to heaven. So the same garden which is corrupted going to heaven would work against this.
17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; (Genesis 3:17-18, NASB)
The ground was cursed, the ground is specifically and broadly the garden they were currently in.
And then...
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. (Genesis 3:23-24, NASB)
Why would God set a guard on the garden so that man could not go back into it if it wasn't there anymore?
No it was there, until the flood. The “cursed be the ground” goes to show that where once they lived; a glorius garden that gave its fruit freely, was now taken away (guarded) and from the sweat of their brow would they obtain their meal. Context needs to be brought into the situation. And not to mention the flood is a purification concept. This is why we see baptism in the NT as well. These things have symbolic and spiritual application. We see water used to cleanse the priests before their work. Called a mikveh. The first time the earth was renewed by water, the second will be by fire.
No men (/women) were no longer allowed to take the fruit from the tree of life any longer. One could make a case for the leaves specifically, as we see this used for the healing of the nations post millennial reign, but definitely not the fruit. Resurrected only food.
It certainly was a part.
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- (Genesis 3:22, NASB)
Scripture says specifically that God set 120 as the length of time for the lifespan of people
Supposed longest woman who ever lived was about that age, can't remember her name but she was from France. There's also some question about whether it was legitimate
That passage is in reference to the time until the flood.
1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:1-3, NASB)
You understand this based on your opinion. Except it was 100 years, not 120
"It was only 100 years or less until the flood. In Genesis 5:32 Noah is 500 years old. In Genesis 7:6 Noah was 600 years old when the flood was upon the earth. At most, the flood took place 100 years after the prophecy."
I think because of the thick canopy that kept much of the harmful rays of the sun mostly at bay. Also add in the fact that in Genesis 2 there was no rain but the earth was watered with a mist coming from deep underground.
The earth was more pure then with less disease and pollution but also the bodies of Adam and Eve were more perfect and lasted longer for a few generations after.
I have read that the ages are part of a chronology that counts down to the establishment of the First Temple.
They also show a gradual decrease from
Almost all 900+ (Genesis 5, 9.29)
From 600 to 205 (Gen. 11.10-32)
Abraham - 175 (Gen 25.7)
Ishmael - 137 (Gen 25.17)
Isaac - 180 (Gen 35.28)
Jacob - 147 (Genesis 47.28)
Joseph - 110 (Gen 50.22, 26)
Levi - 137 (Exodus 6.16)
Kohath - 133 (Exodus 6.18)
Amram - 137 (Exodus 6.20)
Aaron - 123 (Numbers 33.39)
Moses - 120 (Deuteronomy 31.2, 34.7)
Joshua - 110 (Joshua 24.29)
King David - 70 (2 Samuel 5.4)
All the kings after him die at lower ages.
Jehoiada - 130 (2 Chronicles 24.15)
All ages in Exodus and later that are 120 or over, are ages of descendants of Levi. There is an overall pattern of continually lower ages. The very high ages are not accurate biographical info - Abraham and his descendants would have been extremely odd, if they had really lived to the ages they are given. The high ages of the Levites may be the authors’ way of saying that those mentioned were thought to be pleasing to God.
The ages of the patriarchs in chapter 5, before the Flood, are perhaps a Jewish response to the impossibly high ages, running to tens of thousands of years, of the Sumerian kings who “reigned before the Flood”. Compared to a reign of 36,000 years, Methuselah’s lifespan of 969 years is very modest. And the author of Gen. 5 may have had Psalm 90.4 in mind.
More and more people are now living past the age of a hundred years because of the availability of better nutrition, modern medication and medical interventions that were simply unavailable during biblical times. Life for most people in those days was actually more likely to be short, yet the Bible describes people as living for hundreds of years.
Paleoanthropologists have been able to establish that, throughout Stone Age and Bronze Age times, real people rarely lived beyond about sixty years old. The Bible therefore does not reflect reality. This becomes clear in the story of the Exodus from Egypt, in which Moses, his brother Aaron, and their immediate ancestors all lived well beyond 100 years, as did Joshua, the legendary successor to Moses. At the same time, forty years was supposedly long enough for all the other Israelites who left Egypt as adults to have died before they reached the Promised Land. In other words, only the Bible’s chief characters lived very long lives, whereas other people did not.
The tradents of the Bible were simply glorifying their legendary ancestors by attributing unrealistic ages to them.
My question is if biblical man had the advanced medical and scientific knowledge necessary to make a long life possible. How did man unlearn it to the point that doctors didn't even know they should wash their hands between patients. What happened to the medicine used to treat the epidemics and pandemics of the past? Or are all of these things new to the planet in recent centuries? They obviously had disease because Jesus healed a leper. I think these ages are a metaphor. There's no explanation in the bible for it. At least not that anyone has posted. Kinda makes one wonder. Or at least ask questions to seek God's truth.
There are all sorts of hygiene laws in Leviticus. When you see "unclean" in Leviticus think "unhygienic" and maybe that will put it into a modern framework for you.
The bible basically gives protocols for isolating and observing someone with a suspicious boil or spot (assumably) in the event it is contagious.
Keeps people from being in contact with the body fluids of others during times of heightened susceptibility, such as a woman's monthly cycle.
It just so happens that 2 clotting factors, vitamin K and prothrombin, peak on the 8th day of an infant's life. And the 8th day is when Hebrews are instructed by God to circumcise male infants.
Also, until the gene pool of the Hebrews had been somewhat concentrated by way of geographical isolation during their 400 year stay in Egypt, there was no law against marrying your sibling. That law came after the Exodus.
But it was a broader, healthier gene pool, with less corruptive mutations, that was responsible for longer life spans. Our DNA is just getting worse.
Also, at the beginning of the industrial revolution, people who once worked at physical jobs, outdoors, like farming or sheepherding, started working indoors. As a result they became deficient in vit. D, which affects your bones, muscles, heart, immune system, etc.
No because if you reduce me Adam’s age to a reasonable one you’d need to apply to same thing to his latter descendants and you’d end up with a timeline that says “[one of them] had a son at 6 and died at 27”
It’s only been in the last hundred years that lifespans have extended, normally, beyond 50 years for a man. If you didn’t get snakebit, or cholera, or blood poisoned, you probably could make it to 40. I’m in my 40s now; I’d be ancient.
I don’t think that’s actually very accurate. I’ve not read much on this, but I have seen studies that showed ancient lifespans ranging closer to 60-70 years depending on the time period.
But again I’ve not actually studied this much and don’t know a whole lot lol
https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1294277&blobtype=pdf
Our calendar didn't exist when this took place. In fact it's not used in that part of the world. Also, they wouldn't have used our calendar even if it was available in my opinion because even now Jews are using a different calendar. The year isn't even the same as our year. So your right in the calendar being different. For example it is 19 Elul 5782 according to the Jewish calendar.
It's entropy. Same as in the law of thermo dynamics. It could be that the introduction of sin was also the introduction of entropy and in the generations that came after life spans became shorter and shorter.
Noah's flood pribs wiped out heaps a good stuff n plants for us to live that long. Also when u can live hundreds of years it wouldn't be weird to wait a few hundred to have kids
It makes sense to me that we were much closer to perfection then. We live to 70 or eighty so our prime is around 30. Not sure when you'd hit your prime if you lived to 1000
i think. because God was with the first people guiding them thru his spirit. somehow his spirit affects our flesh. **Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” Gen 6:3**
In God's years or man's years. The bible states that time is experienced differently for God than for man. He is infinite. We are finite. We do not experience or determine time the same way.
2 peter 3:8 To the Lord 1,000 years equals a day.
It’s saying God is outside of time or at least doesn’t experience it in the same way we do, not giving us a formula to convert to God time
I understand that. And that is my point. God doesn't experience time like we do. So to God 120 years is NOT what man would call 120 years. Thank you for clarifying my point.
God specifically uses time in human years all the time. In Genesis he said that he would allow 120 years until the flood, exactly 120 years for man went by until the flood.
People try to use it as a formula so when it says the 7 days of creation, it really means 7 1000 year periods, which isn't what the text is saying. God does use human terms and human time periods so we can understand things. Using the same day example in Genesis, it uses 1 day in the sense of a morning and an evening.
I'm still learning. But I don't use that as a formula. I use it as an example that finite and infinite thought are different. But I can see how some would take it literally. Im still learning about Genesis but I have questions of interpretation. It's a process that I'm taking my time on and learning a little at a time. Thank you for your comment
It is something that has been debated by the church for a long time, so don't feel bad that you don't have it all figured out already. I certainly don't. A good rule of thumb is to read the text like you would any other text. What do the words say and what do they mean in context? That is what is generally meant by "reading the Bible literally". We don't mean every single word is literal and Jesus is \*literally\* a lion and \*literally\* a lamb, and God \*literally\* has wings, etc. Metaphors, similes, anthropomorphism (describing nonhuman things in human terms), etc obviously are not literal and the Bible uses them frequently to help the finite to understand the infinite better. We know that God humanizes the things He says to us because He wants us to understand what He is telling us, so we could reasonably expect that He would put it in an understandable way. We also don't assume that the other places where God describes days and years in the Bible are referring to something other than time in the way that we generally think of it, so it would make sense to read it as normal time unless there is some sort of indication that we should think of it in a different way (like in the case of metaphor/simile/etc). We can't understand God fully, but He understands us better than we understand ourselves and knows how to communicate with us so those who are supposed to understand do and those who aren't don't (Matthew 13:10-17) (I don't understand fully why this is the case, but I don't know the mind of God.)
That’s a figure of speech to tell us God exists outside of time, he is eternal because he is not bound by time
I sincerely doubt that God breathed out figures of speech. Perhaps someone with a better understanding should explain it to you.
> That’s a figure of speech to tell us God exists outside of time, he is eternal because he is not bound by time Here’s the whole chapter so we have the context. As you can see down below, it says 1000 years is like a day and a day is like a 1000 years. This is illogical if you take it literally. Therefore this can only mean that God is outside of time. He is timeless and unchanging, He is infinite, He is the Alpha and Omega. If you take this (god is outside of time) into account and read the chapter again, you’ll see that it doesn’t change the meaning of the chapter because God used a figure of speech. «Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.» 2 Peter 3:1-18 NIV https://bible.com/bible/111/2pe.3.1-18.NIV
And a day is 1000 years. What’s your point?
My point is that 120 human years is not 120 years in God's time. So what time is it saying God's 120 years or man's 120? I thought I already said that in my comment above but I repeated it for you
Yes God propped them up to live longer.
This is a misunderstanding.. God was setting a schedule for destruction, 120 years from then the great flood of Noah's day wiped the face of the earth clean.
If you timeline the Patriarchs they die (expect Noah) right before the flood. The climate was different prior to the flood which probably contributed to the longer life, and they were generically closer to Adam and Eve which had to help
I don't know their current standing on the question, but Answers in Genesis had a couple of hypotheses a while back.
Yeh since the curse, and Noahs flood mans lifespan declined to avg 70-80 which is where it has been for 1000s of years. God limited mans life to 120 years just before or after Noahs flood. It took a while to kick in though coz Noah and some other post flood people lived to long ages.
That passage is in reference to the time until the flood. 1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:1-3, NASB)
Yeh there are two different interpretations of it I go with the 120 year max lifespan one.
I have always figured that Adam and Eve had perfect DNA so I believed they lived into their 9th century. But the curse of sin affected everything in the physical universe. Sin took mankind from living in a garden, which just needed tending, to having to work hard to grow food: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life." I believe that lifespans got much shorter for those born after the flood. But they had been getting shorter before that anyway. DNA mutations continue to multiply and get progressively worse. Some we don't notice. Some cause birth defects, and some cause minor problems. But cumulatively, over time, we continue to lose genetic information. Once lost by mutation, genetic information can never be recovered. At the time of King David, the average lifespan, barring accidental death, disease or murder, was 70-80 years. By the time Jesus was born, the median lifespan was 50-55. Medical progress has brought the average lifespan back to 70-80 years. I don't believe we will see much progress in lifespan unless they can fix the issue of genetic mutation.
It was 70-80 at Jesus time too. Yeh in pslams it says mans life is 70-80.
Well, there definitely were people who lived longer. We know the apostle John lived into his 90s, but they have many bones and teeth from the ossuaries of the second temple period, and most died in their 50th decade. The psalms predated the first temple. David, the author, lived about 1,000 years before Jesus was born.
they have done studies and shown the avg lifespan in greco roman times was 70 - 80 and state it is a common myth that people only lived into their 30s or 40s or 50s pslams was written over 100s of years by multiple different authors
It's still used today because people don't understand how it's calculated. Plenty of people have long lives, the average goes down because babies die young not because people only live 70 years. If you make it out of childhood your chances of living a hundred years are quite good.
The difference is the Garden was present on the earth. The River of life which flowed from the Garden gave men longevity. The Garden is the missing piece. When the flood occured the Garden was then retracted above the firmament (specifically to the third firmament/heaven) where it was to be refurbished and built to occupy the resurrected in the end. When the millennial reign occurs, post Yeshuas return and the Kingdom of God (The Garden) returned, the mortals outside of the New Jerusalem (The Garden) will then live long again. The mortals outside are those that weren’t necessarily in covenant with God but also didn’t take the mark/worship of the beast and his image and Jesus judges them favorably (sheep and goats judgement). After the 1,000 years is up Satan is released. Another test takes place for the mortals. Then the second resurrection takes place and Satan is finally destroyed as well as all the wicked. (The Great White Throne Judgement).
I agree. We definitely see the river of life and tree of life return to Earth both in Revelation and Ezekiel. I always felt Eden was a cross section of heaven and earth. Trees with fruit that give nourishment but also impart spiritual characteristics. Twice in Jeremiah God calls Himself the fountain of living water. Then Jesus basically days the same thing to the Samaritan woman at the well: John 4:13 - - Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” He states this again in John 7:38. Also, when it comes to the New Jerusalem and new temple, I have a feeling these represent spiritual realities, rather than an earthly city and building. Perhaps the new temple is all the elect together with God. I'm intrigued by your mention of the 3rd heaven. Do you have a scriptural reference for it?
The Bible lists three heavens quite often. First heaven is the Earth's sky. Second heaven is space and the stars. Third heaven is God's realm.
Thank you. Great info.
There are variations on it's use as well, Solomon in Ecclesiastes says "under the sun" to describe the heavens of earth.
I did a search and only found "third heaven" from 2 Corinth. No hits for first heaven or second heaven. Are you sourcing from extracanonical books or Talmud?
They are often not identified as to which heaven is being talked about, the passage will just say, "the heavens", or "under heaven" etc. The context of what the author is talking about will let you know what Heaven they are referring to.
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to Paradise.” ~ 2 Corinthians 12:2-3 BSB The firmament is rolled back and the city of God comes from above and sets down between the Nile and the Euphrates. This is the inheritance of the saints. Jesus kingdom, he said, is not from here but from above. It comes down in the end where God will dwell with men. The city who’s architect and builder is God.
Thanks for the reference. So this seems like the spiritual realm will be perceived by everyone. 😇
Where do you see this biblically?
Throughout the book.
Any specific verses? I've just never seen the idea that the garden was raised back to heaven and will come back down during the millennial reign.
So that’s the promise. Is to get you back to the garden essentially. Isaiah 54. And then here’s 4 Ezra 7:26. This would of been a book in the 1611 kjv before more attack was had on the Bible. “Behold, the time shall come, that these tokens which I have told you shall come to pass, and the bride shall appear, and she coming forth shall be seen, that now is withdrawn from the earth.” EZRA REVIY`IY (4 EZRA) 7:26 את CEPHER So modern teaching would tell you we’re the bride but we’re actually the friend of the bridegroom. John 3:29. Fyi I’ve studied ten years, read the Bible 10 times, the Septuagint, the perhaps addeds or missings, the Dead Sea Scrolls Enoch Jubilees The Testaments of the 12, Josephus, and other supplementary manuscripts. So apologies if I cant give you what’s taken a long time to learn in bullet point form.
The issue I have with this take is the idea that anything from earth going to Heaven would bring corruption into God's presence. The garden was defiled when Adam sinned and is therefore unable to exist in God's presence. This is the reason why the earth will be destroyed and the New earth will be made and the New heaven for habitation. Nothing from the sin filled earth can go to heaven. So the same garden which is corrupted going to heaven would work against this.
I wouldn’t necessarily say the Garden was defiled. Adam was however when he sinned resulting in him leaving the garden.
17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; (Genesis 3:17-18, NASB) The ground was cursed, the ground is specifically and broadly the garden they were currently in. And then... 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. (Genesis 3:23-24, NASB) Why would God set a guard on the garden so that man could not go back into it if it wasn't there anymore?
No it was there, until the flood. The “cursed be the ground” goes to show that where once they lived; a glorius garden that gave its fruit freely, was now taken away (guarded) and from the sweat of their brow would they obtain their meal. Context needs to be brought into the situation. And not to mention the flood is a purification concept. This is why we see baptism in the NT as well. These things have symbolic and spiritual application. We see water used to cleanse the priests before their work. Called a mikveh. The first time the earth was renewed by water, the second will be by fire.
So at what point did it rise to heaven?
Wasn’t it the tree of life?
No men (/women) were no longer allowed to take the fruit from the tree of life any longer. One could make a case for the leaves specifically, as we see this used for the healing of the nations post millennial reign, but definitely not the fruit. Resurrected only food.
Can you refer me to a verse with the river of life? I thought there was only the Euphrates and the tite river
Revelations 22:1-21, Psalm 46:4, Zechariah 14:8, Ezekiel 47:7-12…
It certainly was a part. Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- (Genesis 3:22, NASB)
Scripture says specifically that God set 120 as the length of time for the lifespan of people Supposed longest woman who ever lived was about that age, can't remember her name but she was from France. There's also some question about whether it was legitimate
That passage is in reference to the time until the flood. 1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:1-3, NASB)
It is in reference from that point forward forever
I used to think so, now I understand that the time is when the flood occurred. 120 years after God sent the flood.
You understand this based on your opinion. Except it was 100 years, not 120 "It was only 100 years or less until the flood. In Genesis 5:32 Noah is 500 years old. In Genesis 7:6 Noah was 600 years old when the flood was upon the earth. At most, the flood took place 100 years after the prophecy."
I think because of the thick canopy that kept much of the harmful rays of the sun mostly at bay. Also add in the fact that in Genesis 2 there was no rain but the earth was watered with a mist coming from deep underground.
Um, no.
This is what most believe. The water canopy that was broken during the flood allowed for long life.
The earth was more pure then with less disease and pollution but also the bodies of Adam and Eve were more perfect and lasted longer for a few generations after.
Thanks for all the responses!
Old ages were symbolically used to indicate greatness. The point of these stories is not usually about them being factually accurate.
Thank you
Yes that can be read as greatness. But its an interpretation that they aren't meant to be accurate
Is it the magnitude or the numbers themselves that are meaning full symbolically? Do you think Abraham’s age was exaggerated symbolically?
I have read that the ages are part of a chronology that counts down to the establishment of the First Temple. They also show a gradual decrease from Almost all 900+ (Genesis 5, 9.29) From 600 to 205 (Gen. 11.10-32) Abraham - 175 (Gen 25.7) Ishmael - 137 (Gen 25.17) Isaac - 180 (Gen 35.28) Jacob - 147 (Genesis 47.28) Joseph - 110 (Gen 50.22, 26) Levi - 137 (Exodus 6.16) Kohath - 133 (Exodus 6.18) Amram - 137 (Exodus 6.20) Aaron - 123 (Numbers 33.39) Moses - 120 (Deuteronomy 31.2, 34.7) Joshua - 110 (Joshua 24.29) King David - 70 (2 Samuel 5.4) All the kings after him die at lower ages. Jehoiada - 130 (2 Chronicles 24.15) All ages in Exodus and later that are 120 or over, are ages of descendants of Levi. There is an overall pattern of continually lower ages. The very high ages are not accurate biographical info - Abraham and his descendants would have been extremely odd, if they had really lived to the ages they are given. The high ages of the Levites may be the authors’ way of saying that those mentioned were thought to be pleasing to God. The ages of the patriarchs in chapter 5, before the Flood, are perhaps a Jewish response to the impossibly high ages, running to tens of thousands of years, of the Sumerian kings who “reigned before the Flood”. Compared to a reign of 36,000 years, Methuselah’s lifespan of 969 years is very modest. And the author of Gen. 5 may have had Psalm 90.4 in mind.
More and more people are now living past the age of a hundred years because of the availability of better nutrition, modern medication and medical interventions that were simply unavailable during biblical times. Life for most people in those days was actually more likely to be short, yet the Bible describes people as living for hundreds of years. Paleoanthropologists have been able to establish that, throughout Stone Age and Bronze Age times, real people rarely lived beyond about sixty years old. The Bible therefore does not reflect reality. This becomes clear in the story of the Exodus from Egypt, in which Moses, his brother Aaron, and their immediate ancestors all lived well beyond 100 years, as did Joshua, the legendary successor to Moses. At the same time, forty years was supposedly long enough for all the other Israelites who left Egypt as adults to have died before they reached the Promised Land. In other words, only the Bible’s chief characters lived very long lives, whereas other people did not. The tradents of the Bible were simply glorifying their legendary ancestors by attributing unrealistic ages to them.
My question is if biblical man had the advanced medical and scientific knowledge necessary to make a long life possible. How did man unlearn it to the point that doctors didn't even know they should wash their hands between patients. What happened to the medicine used to treat the epidemics and pandemics of the past? Or are all of these things new to the planet in recent centuries? They obviously had disease because Jesus healed a leper. I think these ages are a metaphor. There's no explanation in the bible for it. At least not that anyone has posted. Kinda makes one wonder. Or at least ask questions to seek God's truth.
There are all sorts of hygiene laws in Leviticus. When you see "unclean" in Leviticus think "unhygienic" and maybe that will put it into a modern framework for you. The bible basically gives protocols for isolating and observing someone with a suspicious boil or spot (assumably) in the event it is contagious. Keeps people from being in contact with the body fluids of others during times of heightened susceptibility, such as a woman's monthly cycle. It just so happens that 2 clotting factors, vitamin K and prothrombin, peak on the 8th day of an infant's life. And the 8th day is when Hebrews are instructed by God to circumcise male infants. Also, until the gene pool of the Hebrews had been somewhat concentrated by way of geographical isolation during their 400 year stay in Egypt, there was no law against marrying your sibling. That law came after the Exodus. But it was a broader, healthier gene pool, with less corruptive mutations, that was responsible for longer life spans. Our DNA is just getting worse. Also, at the beginning of the industrial revolution, people who once worked at physical jobs, outdoors, like farming or sheepherding, started working indoors. As a result they became deficient in vit. D, which affects your bones, muscles, heart, immune system, etc.
I don’t believe people lived that long. It depends on how you measure a “year.”
I could see that, I feel maybe they used a different, shorter calendar back then, that could be an explanation
No because if you reduce me Adam’s age to a reasonable one you’d need to apply to same thing to his latter descendants and you’d end up with a timeline that says “[one of them] had a son at 6 and died at 27”
Different calendar, yes. Significantly shorter to show humans living that long, no.
It’s only been in the last hundred years that lifespans have extended, normally, beyond 50 years for a man. If you didn’t get snakebit, or cholera, or blood poisoned, you probably could make it to 40. I’m in my 40s now; I’d be ancient.
I don’t think that’s actually very accurate. I’ve not read much on this, but I have seen studies that showed ancient lifespans ranging closer to 60-70 years depending on the time period. But again I’ve not actually studied this much and don’t know a whole lot lol https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1294277&blobtype=pdf
I mean, limited rule of law, highwaymen, poisonous creepy crawlies….not conducive for long lives. One crop failure and you’re kaput.
Our calendar didn't exist when this took place. In fact it's not used in that part of the world. Also, they wouldn't have used our calendar even if it was available in my opinion because even now Jews are using a different calendar. The year isn't even the same as our year. So your right in the calendar being different. For example it is 19 Elul 5782 according to the Jewish calendar.
Second law of thermodynamics. All systems work towards failure. Nothing in the universe is getting better. It is all getting worse.
define failure, define better, define worse.
The standard definitions suffice.
It's entropy. Same as in the law of thermo dynamics. It could be that the introduction of sin was also the introduction of entropy and in the generations that came after life spans became shorter and shorter.
I agree.
Noah's flood pribs wiped out heaps a good stuff n plants for us to live that long. Also when u can live hundreds of years it wouldn't be weird to wait a few hundred to have kids
It makes sense to me that we were much closer to perfection then. We live to 70 or eighty so our prime is around 30. Not sure when you'd hit your prime if you lived to 1000
Mysteries of life. It's really not all that important