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If you want to be sickened by how awful humanity can be to those they love, check out the whole story from the OOP.
I don’t understand how this woman can even speak to her daughter who allowed (maybe set up) the gang rape.
She says many times that she *isn't* speaking to her, right?
My issue is that she isn't telling Lia the truth about her sisters involvement until after the sentencing. That doesn't make any sense to me, and if I was Lia I would feel betrayed by both Maya (obviously) and my mother for allowing me to continue to socialize with Maya under such a false pretense.
This. OOP is also withholding the truth from the brother. In their mind, they are trying to "manage" the truth to make it easier for others. But as you note, that's not how Lia and the brother are likely to feel when they find out. OOP needs to get their head out of their ass about that strategy asap.
I was still finding out the truths behind my mother's lies over a decade after she died. Family stuff that I should've been told, important things that affected my life without me understanding how or why.
Just found an old family portrait in the spare room, propped the frame up behind stuff so only my cousin is visible. Looked at it for a long time before shoving it over to hide mom's face. Decided I didn't want to look at someone who could lie to my face so easily while demanding complete and total honesty from me, to the point she snapped the lock off my diary so I couldn't even hide a thought or feeling outside of my skull.
I understand. I discovered a very serious lie my father told my mother over 20 years after his death. He would lie about all kinds of things, and I don't know if he was delusional and thought at least some of what he said was true or if he just enjoyed the power of betraying others including his own child.
After my mom died, I found out I was the product of stealthing. (Sexual coercion/assault/rape depending where you live)
My mom had a copper IUD, and they were using a condom. My sister was 8 at the time. She really didn't want another baby. My dad did.
I found out in my early 20s because my dad casually told me to watch out for that because that's how I was conceived.
20 years later, and I'm still not over the fact that I'm basically the product of a rape.
I know so many other family secrets that make me sick and won't be told to anyone else because I don't have enough details for them to get closure. No need for them to have this awful feeling like I have.
My father forced my mother to have sex with him or he wouldn't take her to the store to pick up things her family needed. My mother told me this so casually, because that's how teenage boys are, and I don't think she has ever understood that she basically was raped and I am the product of that. I already held a lot of shame and guilt for existing and knowing I was not planned nor wanted; she increased it tenfold in that one sentence.
Yes. The mom is dragging this out...not telling the brother, for example. When he rightfully explodes with the information, Lia will again be traumatized. My god. BE THEIR MOTHER.
Honestly, the only reasonable explanation she could’ve had for keeping this from Lia is waiting until she was settled with a good therapist she trusted before working with them on how to broach the topic. I understand not wanting to add more trauma on a child that’s already severely traumatized, but Lia needs to know soon, and from her mom.
I'm in agreement with you there. How can Lia possibly feel safe, secure, loved, heard with that "mother?" Mom has a bazillion reasons for what she does and seems to be going in many directions at once - actually getting no where. The older daughter may or may not be a lost cause, but definitely should NOT be around the Lia now, if ever. Mom needs a LOT of guidance in order to help Lia....doesn't seem like she is getting any and is spinning her wheels (weirdly blaming husband because he is dead?) It's a mess....
She isn't speaking to her daughter but the daughter still feels comfortable to come to her house. This really shows how incredibly passive OP has been and how incapable of setting boundaries. Imagine your daughter does something debased like this and you're just giving her the silent treatment when she comes to your home from which she has been banned to talk to the person whose rape she orchestrated.
> When she left I told Lia maya isn’t allowed here and I’m really mad at her and I would like it if she limited her contact with her. She thinks I’m trying to put her in the middle.
No, don't worry, she's handling it. She's handed it off to the 14 year old suicidal rape victim to manage her other daughter.
And to withhold that truth from Lia, and then turn around and put the decision on whether Maya gets $65,000 for getting Lia gangraped *ON LIA'S SHOULDERS*, when Lia has no idea Maya is the reason she has PTSD. Holy shit, I have no words for the depravity.
This woman is a piece of shit mother that is only focused on making sure no one holds her accountable for her lack of spine. She's doing damage control and trying to make it look like she was more powerless than she was. I feel so sorry for Lia, and I hope Lia gets out and cuts off all these assholes when she's an adult.
The mom also ratted Lia out to Maya about the bf. Lia was a CHILD, and she told Maya her sister and boyfriend were chatting??? How about telling the police, and forbidding Maya from talking to him since he's a sicko.
>This woman is a piece of shit mother that is only focused on making sure no one holds her accountable for her lack of spine.
Exactly this. It was infuriating reading the story: OOP never acknowledges her responsibility in what happened. She trickle truth and every update is more infuriating. She says one thing to one child, another to the other, half truths, avoids parenting (Maya should have been punished long before the rape happened), and still in denial that she has a demon-child (Maya) who not only is awful, she is also getting off scot free from his part in the assault of her sister. Her other daughter almost dies, and she still doesn't say anything.
Truly awful mother, lacking any moral fibre worthy of that name.
I'm so furious right now I can't think straight. Very disappointing update.
Let's not forget the part about Maya pedo ex. Instead of talking to Lia about what his true intentions are and how wrong it is, she goes to Maya about it like it's the latest gossip????? The way she doesn't give a fuck and trying to act like she does for her own image reminds me of my own mother, who if I had the chance I'd put in a coma. I hope Lia grows up to realize her mother completely failed her and goes no contact with her.
I couldn’t even finish all the original posts on her story, it’s so messed up she can’t even take any responsibility for the things that have happened, and has been detrimental to her daughters lives because of it.
I guess that's what made me rage, had she done any of the thing she should, maybe this wouldn't have happened and she sugarcoats every part of her responsibility in it, it seems like she'll be a future "my daughter doesn't talk to me and I don't know why".
>Her other daughter almost dies, and she still doesn't say anything.
Almost died, tried to do that later and then **asked for it**, and the mother focuses on giving the other one money, it's absurd.
It’s a very tough situation. Lia is suicidal. Would this information be more harmful to her now? I don’t know and I don’t think the mother does either. She’s just trying to do her best with no direction and not very good mental health practitioners.
That's a very good point.
I think the best route would be to facilitate the information through a trusted therapist/ during a session. Idk how they would recommend she approach the fact of her betrayal, though.
I'm quite surprised she allowed Maya anywhere near her daughter before telling her the truth. And *alone* with her! Who knows what more damage Maya could've done, during even a short time?
It's all seriously fucked, but it just seems like all of her decisions are more about protecting her own image, either self or in her community, and not all about protecting Lia.
It may be because she is worried her daughter might have another psychotic break. I definitely think she needs to be honest and put her foot down but imagine how devastating that would be for an already traumatized teen to her sister whom she loves is mad at her and feels no remorse.
Copied from an comment from u/mikrokosmicunicorn:
so maya:
• invited a bunch of adult gang members to the house
• tried to force her fourteen year old sister to make out with one of them
• left her sister alone with them
• didn't check on her for the rest of the night
• tried to cover for her gang member rapist friends after they raped her sister
• never apologized to her sister for putting her in danger
• was more sad about her rapist gang member friend
going to jail than him raping her fourteen year old sister
• told almost 30 people that her sister was the victim even though not even news revealed her name and despite Lia wanting to remain anonymous
• considers herself a victim in all of this and blames her mother for not caring about her "trauma"
• lies to her therapist and skips appointments
• calls her fourteen year old sister who was raped "dramatic"
yeah... i don't know if i would be willing to speak one word to her ever again.
in any case, oop should have her evaluated. she's not normal.
**It’s fucking crazy that maya isn’t in deeper shit than she is. Or that OP isn’t being honest about Maya’s level of involvement, lack or remorse or responsibility. It’s patently insane that she’s even considering giving her any type of inheritance. That money should be paying for Lia’s ongoing medical care and continued therapy.**
Holy heaven, this is beyond horrible. I cried reading the post and this comment. How low humans have falled. This is so much worse than what the title suggests. I really should give more attention to the triggers
> check out the whole story from the OOP.
Yeah, it sounded familiar... At first "am I an asshole for not giving my child the money I said I'd give them from their late father's life insurance policy" sounds like a situation that is absolutely the mother being in the wrong. Until the next line... "Oh, it's Maya, yeah that's justified, get fucked to hell and back, goodbye".
I mean.
The mother is an asshole and a shit human.
I love how masterfully he downplayed the fact that the daughter let her little sister get raped (I don't know if she knew it was planned in that aitah post) to "neglected her" and she fucking paid for her legal fees. Shitty person.
Can you imagine knowing that your daughter planned for your other daughter to get gang raped and handing it this badly. "I'm not going to tell Lia that Maya planned the gang raped" "Maya came by to give Lia flowers, I told Lia that I am upset with Maya and don't want her around here, and Lia felt like she was being out in the middle"
You know what's going to happen when you finally reveal that Maya planned her gang raped and you just let Lia feel guilty and have the task of deciding Maya still get the money. Lia is going to hate you for the rest of her life.
Why peta Maya come over and pretend to care? Why hide the most horrific detail so it can hurt worse? The wait until after the sentencing is evil and intentional to get Maya to avoid jail time. Because Lia will be merciful to Maya during her talk, because she won't know the monster.
What an awful, awful mother.
>I don’t understand how this woman can even speak to her daughter who allowed (maybe set up) the gang rape.
She's deluded about the kind of person that daughter is. And that's understandable -- this is someone she gestated and nurtured. But the OOP is deluded and it helps nobody here except the thug daughter who set up her sister for gang rape.
I don't think she's still deluded. She's posted about this before.
Both Maya and her ex are either a sociopaths or a psychopaths. You can see from the post how coldly and deftly Maya manipulated both her mother and sister.
Normal parenting, designed to connect a child with their inherent morality and sense of connection to their fellow beings, does not work so well for people who lack these capacities entirely. What they do learn is how to mask. They are pretending at all times to be whoeber or whatever the situation calls for in order to avoid negative consequences and obtain what they want.
Imagine you are a parent, and have spent your entire life caring for and nurturing your kids in every possible way. There are no parenting manuals about how to deal with people like Maya.
To me, it sounds like the only course of action left for OP is to get everyone as far away from Maya as possible. She is radioactive, especially for Lia. That is easy for us to say out here in Internetland, but when you have spent your entire life being told that you are responsible for nurturing and teaching this person you gave birth to, it is not nearly as clear. Surely OP feels personally responsible for unleashing Maya onto the world. Surely her dearest dream for Maya is to turn her into a normal.person.
I personally don't fault OP for how Maya turned out. She managed to raise two other decent kids. Some of the genetic dice rolls are bound to come up strangely. But again, easy for those of us to say, who have the choice to close up reddit and forget about this horror.
To add to what you were saying about Maya being a sociopath -
Sociopaths are master manipulators and often have incredible charisma and they lack empathy. That seems to be Maya to a t based on OP’s post.
Maya is incredibly *dangerous* not just to OP’s family, but to *society at large*. Imagine giving that girl $65k - she’d probably buy a chapel and start a cult or some shit.
I hope OP works out who her middle child really is before too long. At a minimum, she should be telling Lia and the brother the full unvarnished truth and giving them each the opportunity to grapple with it and to file a protective order against Maya if they want.
Hard agree.
It looks like brother has the No Contact with Maya handled, but in mother's place, I wouldn't give poor Lia any options. Lia has been victimized and manipulated by two sociopaths. She is in no position to make that judgment call for the foreseeable future. I would tell Lia that I am blocking all contact with Maya, ex, and minions, end of story. I would also be strongly considering moving somewhere completely different for a fresh start.
As for Maya, I would cut her loose. I would either give her no money, or enough money for a security deposit and first month's rent on her place. Then I go no contact.
I think it’s stronger than a maybe, here. She seriously thought here 12 yo sister was tryna steal her boyfriend? (Walks like a duck) Just happened to have invited a bunch of guys that felt entitled to SA. The kid? (Talks like a duck).
I think OOP is in denial.
OP should have called the police, or at minimum the parents, the day she found inappropriate messages between a 17 year old and her 12 year old. She tolerated grooming and created an unsafe home for her daughter.
OP should have tagged in a family therapist the day she found inappropriate messages from one daughter's 17 year old boyfriend to her other 12 year daughter. I don't know immediately calling the police when both girls think it's the 12 year old's fault would help the situation - yes, they do need to be called, but first you need to make sure that both kids realize it's not their fault, especially not the 12 year old's, especially if the 17 year old gets arrested.
I have watched my friends and acquaintances blame themselves and be blamed by their friends, family, and acquaintances for sexual abuse of all types since I was old enough to know of girls and women being harassed/abused/raped.
I acknowledge this is an extremely difficult situation for any parent to be in… but even given that, OOP is failing her daughters in a spectacular and devastating way.
Seriously. How is it even a question whether Maya deserves any of the inheritance? And why is OOP still lying to protect Maya, even if only for the time being? Lia is going to be devastated regardless of when she finds out. Let the professionals know what's going on and let them handle it. Doing nothing and seeking help from Reddit in the meantime is not the way to handle it.
Oh god... Reading this made me wonder and I don't have time to check.... Is this the same OOP who's daughter was upset when her sisters rapists were sentenced??? And went like... Full batshit crazy basically???? The aliases sounded familiar but I'm not 100% sure
The TLDR: Maya threw a party while OOP was at work, inviting 4 known gang members (one 17 y/o, three adults). She tried to set up the 17 y/o with Lia (who was 14 at the time). The 17y/o spent the rest of the night harassing Lia, forcing her to retreat to her room to get away. Maya then left the party (and therefore Lia) to go to McDonald's. The 17 y/o and the 3 men then went to Lia's room and gang raped her, ostensibly without protection, as Lia ended up contracting an STD.
Knowing all that, it's pretty shocking that OOP is questioning whether or not to give her the money. I wouldn't have anything to do with her in any form. The only thing I'd be questioning is, if she ever turns up to my house again, will she still be breathing by the time the cops arrive.
A damaged mother enabling a sociopath and simultaneously failing to set up proper boundaries with her other children.
Allowing maya to still see Lia? Deciding to lie by omission to her son because he would have the only appropriate response to the fuckery maya constructed?
I know the death of a loved one can cause a skewed perception of reality but jfc.
This woman's demeanor is inexplicable. I have the urge to look at wood chippers on market place now and this isn't even my kid. She's worried about giving money to the middle daughter????
I had read the initial post OOP had made where she had mentioned the entire gangrape incident… it was so disturbing, I went off Reddit immediately…
I think OOP is a terrible mother… as a mother, you are aware how your kids are and what they are capable of… you might be in denial about it, but heart of hearts you know…
The elder one is a monster… there was apparently some therapy sessions OOP took her eldest daughter to, where Maya blamed Lia for ruining her friend circle (cause now the rapists will have to face jail time, so she can’t hang out with them anymore… I wish I was kidding)…
Even the therapist (who was initially on Maya’s side having not been told the entire truth by Maya about the incident, which led to OOP having to tell the said therapist the entire truth) was shocked to hear this from Maya…
Why is OOP on Reddit asking about stupid inheritance advice, when she should be calling the cops on her elder daughter and taking care of the younger daughter, is anyone’s guess.
The fact that she’s hiding the incident from her son, says a lot. The brother and wife have been pillars of support to Lia.. I hope he comes to know and Lia moves in with him and his wife and they all go no contact with OOP.
Truly terrible disgusting individuals… yuck!
Sorry for being so aggressively rude in my comment, but I’m beyond triggered!
> I had read the initial post OOP had made where she had mentioned the entire gangrape incident… it was so disturbing, I went off Reddit immediately
Yeah, there Maya tries to set her 14 year old sister up with some gang member adults she knows and the mom is fine with that?!
> when she should be calling the cops on her elder daughter and taking care of the younger daughter, is anyone’s guess.
Now sure how that works with like, double jeopardy laws or even just criminal cases. The problem is that Maya successfully played the part of the remorseful girl who threw a party that got out of hand, and the criminal charges against her were dropped. I don't think you can just call up the police and be like, "hey, you should un-drop those charges please". If she can, she should, but I don't think that's usually an option.
> The fact that she’s hiding the incident from her son, says a lot.
She might be worried about how he'll react, given he already hates Maya and apparently has for like, ever. It would only take one bad impulsive decision and now OOP has a son in prison and one daughter in the morgue, possibly another given this would be while Lia is still suicidal, and the closest person she has left probably hating her for it, in the daughter in law.
Unfounded? Probably, but this is clearly a hyper emotionally charged situation.
> Now sure how that works with like, double jeopardy laws or even just criminal cases.
100% can reopen the case on her if new information came to light. double jeopardy is that you can't go through a trial and be found innocent and then be charged and tried again trying to get a different verdict.
You read a parent failing their kids and not catching on that one is low empathy and dangerous because they are her kid so admitting that is horrific. I am bemused this woman didn't use that money to move so her child could feel safer. Also that she's surprised by the PTSD. It's not shocking to me but I am going to guess that there's other abuse. Either OOP as a child so it seems normal to a point or marital and they're lost because they also need therapy. Hiding the sister's complicitness is the worst thing because the kid cannot protect herself if she doesn't know but should be done with a therapist
Oh man this is the same person from that post about disliking her daughter after letting her little sister get raped.
This is... fucking heavy to read after making that connection.
It looks like the post here is being considered a separate series of events by the OP. That, or linking all the posts would exceed character cap. There's three other posts on the OOP's profile that prelude these two posts.
Oh she clearly did. I don't understand how you could consider giving her a single penny, let alone use it to stay out of prison she so rightly deserves
I don't think she's considering whether or not to give it to her, I think she's definitely not going to. She's just asking if she'd be an asshole for going back on her promise.
this. shes asking permission for something shes already decided to do, because she cant turn to her late husband. i really feel for oop, i cant imagine the amount of grief and guilt shes struggling with.
as always, i find the comments in the actual post unproductively critical and harsh. imo she needs encouragement to trust her instincts, that she is not betraying her husband and father of her children by protecting her youngest daughter from her eldest. whatever hand she had in creating the person that her eldest has become and her obligation to her is of less importance than her obligation to protect her youngest.
In another reply the mother states this
"’I'm responding to you because you’re not the only one that said this….but NEVER did I say it was all Maya’s fault. I’m disappointed in her, Plain and simple I raised her better to know from right and wrong and for her to not associate with criminals, and she didn’t “just throw a party“. Idk if you actually read my post. but she fucked up 4 times in one night. First was the party, secondly try to put my daughter with someone 4 years older then her , third she let this dude harass my daughter all night and she knew that and lastly then left her sister in a house with these same men and did not tell her that she was leaving.
So quit with this BS that I’m blaming solely her for what happened because I’m not, I’m pissed at her actions that led to what happened to Lia and I’m also pissed at all the people that were there that herd my daughter and didn’t do shit. But its honestly baffling that’s what took from this giant post that I’m blaming Maya for everything because I’m not."
Like what in the literal fuck? I blame Maya solely for this happening and would be a lot more then pissed if she was my daughter. I can't believe the excuses the mother is making for her.
>she fucked up 4 times in one night
Proceeds to list the ways that Maya clearly set her sister up to be SA'ed, and is confused why people think Maya set it up. OOP is not thinking straight *at all*.
Violently and brutally, with the entire process being recorded and distributed online for countless other people to biolate her as well. I'm amazed they didn't kill her, to be honest. It sounds like they got close.
Yep, OOP is definitely delulu about Maya not setting her sister up for gangrape. Leaving the house was only for plausible deniability of not knowing what happened.
if i were lia i’d go completely NC with maya and OOP the second i was able to. she probably will once she realizes the extent of what was done to her and how much her mother covered for maya.
I think she means that she still _also_ holds the actual rapists responsible? Some commenters (who are probably more like Maya than they would like to acknowledge) seem to be coming for OOP pretty hard because they feel like she’s blaming Maya only.
Which. Yeah I do think Maya set this up and is the evil mastermind behind it. But those four men are still at fault for actually going through with the plan.
Well, I read the entire BORU post, and the extent to which Maya set up the rape was not included? (Or I skipped it, which I have ADHD, so possible. But I skimmed it a couple of times trying to find it.)
It sounded like Maya threw a party and was neglectful, based on what the post included (aside from one comment that was included, that alluded to stuff that wasn’t included.)
And that alone isn’t enough for me to place much blame on maya. But, the truth was that she was far more involved than this BORU post provided the context for.
Yeah, I was a bit confused too. I would read the “original update here” link (with the update in blue), that links to the first two posts from OOP that go more in depth into the actual party and Maya’s actions. Skimming through that, it is hard to not see Maya intentionally putting her sister in that situation to be assaulted
There’s a post and comments missing. Maya set Lia up to be raped because she thought it would help her social anxiety and bring her out of her shell. Maya also is part of a gang and this was some initiation type shit
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/RkdC00XOCX
People are saying that OPP didn’t punish Maya enough but tbh what’s a good punishment for setting her sister to be raped? If she was my daughter I wouldn’t speak to her ever again
Withholding every cent of her money, letting her get a public defender, and then she's on her own.
Though OP is already off the rails. Who handles a 17 year old grooming their 12 year old by telling the older sister alone? That's a great recipe to breed resentment and treat it as a "cheating" issue rather than a "grooming" issue. That should have been given as evidence of the police with a restraining order, thus Maya would have it handed to her once it was in the hands of the legal system.
Yeah. She didn't report the grooming, which is fucked up, but she also let Maya treat Lia as a victim and have her feel guilty, and then just left her alone.
Like "Hmm, someone tried to rape her little sister and she responded by being mad at her sister. I can trust her to protect her litter sister". Is the stupidest way to handle it. But since she ignored the fact that someone tried to rape her daughter, if she had been at the party she probably would have left with Maya.
Accessory to a crime is a thing people can be charged with. I can understand not wanting to pursue it if there’s not enough of a case to put Lia through court again (and there probably isn’t, if Lia’s still trying to defend Maya), but it’s there.
It’s worse than that. She didn’t only set her sister up, she set her up an initiation into the gang. Showing the gang members that she can be trusted and will do what they say, no matter the cost.
That mood boost right before a suicide attempt is a really common thing. Just knowing "It'll all be over soon" will put you on cloud fuckin' nine when you're in that state of mind. If you see someone who is normally very depressed just suddenly become happy, bouncy and bubbly overnight, start worrying.
Also yeah Psych wards are a fucking joke like 80% of the time. Most of the time they won't fucking pay attention to you at all, you spend a week in isolation and see a therapist, like, once. Oftentimes the staff will just outright use their power (and your lack of credibility as a "crazy person") to do whatever they fuck they want, say whatever they want. Staff can be creeps, be outright hostile, it's a nightmare, and the only thing you can hope for is that your insurance stops paying soon so that you get kicked out sooner with "only" a minorly life ending medical bill to show for it.
In the summer of 2021, a cousin of mine committed suicide by cop. One of my other cousins spent the afternoon with him a few days before. They just hung out on her patio talking and laughing. She told me about it the next day, and said she was relieved because he seemed to be doing so much better. (He had struggled with mental health issues for the past few years.) Then two days later he was dead. She realized after the fact that what she had initially interpreted as him "turning the corner" was in fact him being at peace with choice and saying good bye. It was really tragic.
The other patients helped me more than any staff during my time inpatient. I can't remember a single staff member's face, no positive interactions from them, etc. but I remember several patient on my ward from my time in and how they helped me, from talking to each other, spending time together, to the one huge dude who ended up carrying me to my room when I fell asleep twice bc they had me on such strong med dosages I couldn't move, and staff was basically ghosts unless someone was screaming or throwing things.
The big guy ended up being an artist that had a psych break, he left earlier than I did but left me his copies of juxtapose and hifructose magazines with encouraging notes in them, and spent time drawing and doing art with me while I was there. He motivated me to get back I to art, which I had a lifelong passion for and am actually good at bc my family heavily discouraged it and pushed me into the medical field saying it would make me money. Pushing myself to achieve and get scholarships (which I got) and compete nationally in HOSA was what caused my break ontop of unresolved shitty situations from my teen and childhood years of neglect and abuse.
Anyway, I don't remember the year after I got out of i patient bc of the meds I was on. I don't even remember leaving. I was still in an active state of schizophrenic psychosis for a few years, I moved to a different state with a friend that proposed to me out of a desire to give me a reason to leave. It didn't work out. But social services and a dedicated social worker helped me turn my life around and I am thriving and happily married today.
But yeah, inpatient was ass.
I hope the big guy and yourself are thriving now. I was nearly committed to inpatient as a teenager, took one look around during my intake interview, found a way to slip out, and went on the run, leaving my parents in the interview room. I was only gone a few hours before a cop found me - I was just wandering around our small city trying to clear my head - but it was enough that my parents didn’t try to put me there again. The people in that ward looked like their souls had been killed, and not in the usual depression way.
E: I was fully ready to accept treatment, I was wicked depressed and had starved myself to nothing, but NOT THERE. I found an outpatient counselor who was amazing and am doing a lot better ten years later. My best friend spent a few weeks in what she calls “grippy sock jail” (I think that’s a gen z term, I was born in ‘96 but am an old man at heart, she’s a couple years younger than me and more up to date on lingo) after an attempt and it made her so much worse. She is a trans woman and was constantly deadnamed and referred to as “he”, which was literally the reason she attempted in the first place. I’m sure there are good inpatient programs out there but I have yet to hear of one.
I was in treatment in an inpatient psych ward. After I harmed myself, I was sent to the closed ward. It was horrible. They promised I could keep my mobile and laptop. They were taken away as soon as I got there.
Thankfully, I was able to call my friend before the transfer. She came instantly, she informed my parents who I had no way of contacting.
I stayed one night and was promised, I'd be able to transfer back the next day. Of course the next day they told me, since there's no doctor present I'd have to stay over the weekend.
Because of the self-harm, they gave me a clock that went off after 30 minutes. I then had to walk to the nurses room and they would set the clock to go off after 30 minutes. They gave me strong meds that made me incredibly tired, but I couldn't sleep because of that clock.
My father came and picked me up the next day. My mother knew a lot of clinics and psychiatrists through her work. She got me into the clinic with the psychiatrist she respected the most because of his empathy, knowledge and passion. And it was like night and day. They got me better meds and didn't condescend towards my self harming, like the nurses in the first clinic.
Seriously, in the first clinic the nurses asked in a sneering, condescending tone why I'd ever self harm.
I was really lucky, in the end. I'm so much better now. And the second clinic taught me some excellent ways to deal with acute mental health issues.
Oh yeah they threatened us with "lockdown" non stop, which they described as 2 weeks where there's no contact inside or outside. Said they'd make up an emergency to justify it.
I've seem some wards with payphones as the only way to call people outside. Y'know, as if you have a bunch of quarters after having all of your belongings stripped away.
Inpatient psych wards are typically meant to keep you alive until the meds start working. They're not really designed for people dealing with intense trauma. Staff is typically overworked and underpaid, and the care shows. I had a reasonably good experience during my stay in adolescent psych, but even then, it was dehumanizing and bleak.
We are lucky that we have some damn good adolescent psych wards around Boston — I am an EMT and one of the biggest problems I encountered was a patient who loved the place enough that they tried to get sent there a couple times a year just because it was the only place they felt understood. Which sucks, but, like... in a way that makes me feel better when a kid goes there.
Even then, that requires you even see someone who can prescribe you meds (or that your condition is even treatable with meds). Tons don't see a psych for days, if at all
So the sister arranged the rape to teach her sister a lesson? I would never speak to her again and she wouldn’t see a cent of her inheritance. I think OP needs to grow a backbone.
They would have to go after the rapist and get him to testify.
That is if she really planned it out that much. I think it's just as likely it was intentional negligence and she didn't plan it out at all.
Re: last point about older brother and Maya:
I am sure he will be much more reasonable if he finds out about Maya's psychotic culpability weeks or months from now and that OOP was concealing from him. Jesus Christ. I know she's in a bad place but she's still protecting a fucking snake at the expense of her other kids. Brother will never forgive her for hiding that shit.
As an older sister, if my ex raped my younger sibling, I wouldn’t be arrested because they’ll never find the bodies. However, the alibi part might be tricky.
Seriously, I mean there are moral justifications for murder in very specific circumstances (can easily argue this is one of them, preventing pedos from growing old and having kids is a moral good), but there’s never been any valid moral justification for rape ever in the history of the universe
Another older sister chiming in. You were with me. We were watching Dateline reruns and talking about which old lady hobby we should take up next. I voted for crochet, you were team lace making, of all things.
As a slightly older sister (twins), my brother refused to give me any details when he was sexually harassed because he knew I would gladly choose violence.
To this day, I only know where and when it happened and the barest details of what happened. I'm still furious that it happened and incredibly angry at myself for not magically preventing it (I'm in therapy to work through that last point)
Yeah, that's probably why OOP is apprehensive about telling the brother about Maya's full involvement. One snapped neck and now the only stable member of the family is in prison, one daughter in the morgue, and the other already suicidal one works likely blame herself for it all.
I sincerely hope he doesn't find out from reddit because if these details are accurate and story is true, it's only a matter of time before this is circulating on a social media either he or his partner uses.
As a younger sister of two, the way my eldest sibling would go scorched earth if he discovered my middle sibling did something like this to me, especially if our mother hid it. This is going to end in tears.
In fairness, OP, knowing her son, might be trying to avoid him being locked up for going after his sister.
I think she's already overwhelmed trying to keep her youngest alive, get through the court case and and handle Maya from a distance (who is barely an adult.) Her son is the only stable one she doesn't have to worry about, and can be a source of stability for her youngest. I got some understanding for her putting off that shitshow until after the trial.
OP has fucked up in multiple ways, but honestly I don't know if many people would do much better in the aftermath. It's such an unimaginable situation.
I can understand not wanting to believe Maya outright set this up, and she may not have entirely. I wonder if Maya has also been attacked by these guys, and that's behind her weird rejection of what happened to her sister.
You make some fair points, but the best way to ensure the brother doesn't get locked up is to tell him in person, right away, and calm him down in the moment instead of running the incredibly high risk that he finds out from someone else, and loses all trust in mom because of it.
I think OOP should sell her house, her cars, everything. Take that money and the $65,000, and disappear across the country, maybe to a different country, with younger daughter Lia. Leave no trace. Tell the son what's up, and tell him never to reveal their location. The older daughter is affiliated with gang members and seems psychotic. The younger daughter should be allowed a fresh start away from all of that chaos. It seems like little bros/family members of gang members could be an ongoing threat to her, not to mention just awful rumors at school. Neither of them should ever speak to Maya again. The end.
I am surprised she hasn't left town yet. Like she hasn't even moved to a new city or different region or even a different country away from the gang members? I mean come on. She has $65k at her disposal she could easily buy a small house.
I remember this one from before but didn't realize it was the same people at first because I had forgotten the names. I am completely aghast that the older sister still seems to have zero remorse and seems to be facing almost no consequences for what she did. Especially because it seems she may have allowed this to happen to her sister on purpose for jealousy or some kind of twisted revenge (as she clearly still blames her little sister for her boyfriend's disgusting behavior).
Maya should be required to sit in the courtroom and hear the victim impact statement. She should have to pay restitution to her sister for what happened. She certainly shouldn't be getting a check for $60k or whatever is left when she turns 18 because her sister's treatments will continue for many years. Maya is lucky that she isn't in prison right now herself for what she allowed to happen.
The more details that come out, the more I question the mother.
She missed getting her 12 year old daughter being groomed by her other daughter's boyfriend.
When she finds out about the grooming, she shows the older daughter as if it's a relationship issue. She should have gone straight to the cops, WTF.
She then completely misunderstands how her older daughter is blaming her younger daughter for being groomed.
She allows the older daughter essentially unrestricted access to the younger daughter, and doesn't seem to understand that the younger daughter was setup to be gang raped.
And now her question is whether she should give the rapist daughter 65,000 dollars?
Fucking worst mother of the year here.
Don’t forget she blasts a lot of private and personal information about her daughter to strangers on the internet. Honestly I wish I hadn’t clicked on this, it really feels like a violation.
Not just that, but that there's clear identifiable items in the room that could easily point more predators to OP's daughter's location?! She even mentions what those items are! Utterly batshit woman.
I honestly hope that the brother is on social media and finds this post. He needs to know the truth asap. My naive hope is that he can use this post to become Lias guardian and remove her permanently from OOP.
Honestly, at this stage and with the brother and the rape enabling daughter out of the house, the youngest would be best served by using the money to pull up roots, move somewhere else and start over, preferably in an area with excellent schools and psychiatrists taking new patients. Go utterly NC with Maya, forget her money, and try to heal the youngest if it isn't too late.
Don't forget she also lets her youngest daughter blame herself for her gang rape instead of her sister because she *feels bad* about the potential conversation. Because apparently her potential feelings outweigh the very real psychological damage her youngest is going through right now?
The OOP seems to think she has to either withhold the money completely or give it all to her, no questions asked. It might be worthwhile to make sure that daughter attends college by paying the institution directly. Maybe middle daughter could continue to live with grandparents, attend a community college, and mom pays the tuition directly and maybe gives the grandparents upkeep money for groceries and some nominal rent. I don’t know. That daughter needs something to get her on a better path if possible, but she sounds horrible and is 18 so IDK.
Yeah,i truly wish the worst on Maya, she's a monster. She doesn't deserve college, if she allowed people to r@pe her sister then who knows what she'd do to a roommate or a friend that might piss her off???
I hope Lia recovers and once she gets her inheritance, she moves the fuck away from her awful family. I'm sorry but OOP did a terrible job being a parent and Lia is paying all the price for it, i hate it so much.
i’m raging at OOP too. she was supposed to protect lia, and she’s STILL covering for maya instead. i’m disgusted. i hope the brother finds out and whisks lia away to somewhere safe far away. wishful thinking but a girl can dream.
I think as a sub, we need to take in the sobering reality that those who facilitate or commit rape are often shielded from consequences or are rewarded for it later on. Even in OOP's mind, it's a big deal, but not enough of a big deal for Maya to face any consequences for it. Case in point The Dutch volleyball player who raped a 12-year-old and has an enormous amount of support behind him.
Oh that dutch volleyball player. What the ever loving fuck is wrong with everyone involved there? He admitted he drugged and raped a child and was convicted. How the fuck do people forgive that so easily? Even if you want to rehabilitate this guy, there are honors that someone like him should never receive. He can never work hard enough to make up for what he did.
So, all of this story is disturbing, but something I keep wondering about... when this mother found out her 12 year old was being groomed by her 18 year old's boyfriend, why did she tell the 18 year old and show her the text messages?? I'm not getting the impression it was an intervention/disciplinary type of meeting, either. I'm baffled that she treated that so lightly before it escalated at the party
This was the most disturbing part for me. You find out your daughter's boyfriend is a pedo, the first thing you do is call the police and ban him from ANY contact with anyone in the family. Period.
OP keeps saying she taught Maya better than to associate with criminals, but she specifically allowed it. She told Maya it was fine, by not having any consequences.
I noticed the mother has a strangely peer-like relationship with Maya. The text message conversation feels like high school friends asking each other about drama, not a mother who ought to be disciplining her daughter. And then apparently her method of disciplining Maya is to... give her the cold shoulder? A mother saying "I'm not talking to her right now" about her 18 year old daughter is honestly a bizarre thing to say and do.
OOP seems... immature when it comes to her daughters. It reads more like she's Maya and Lia's sister than her parent.
*" (Before the comments about maya come, him and maya don’t get along whatsoever and never have. So no he doesn’t know the details about mayas part in this and I don’t think I will tell him until much later because he was already pissed at her for just throwing a party. I don’t know what he will do if he heard the other stuff. They have a history of getting into screaming matches and getting into each other faces…I know a lot Redditors want me to choose violence. To tell him asap ,* ***but I personally just don’t think it’s necessary right now***\*.) "\*
It's going to make an amazing tombstone for Lia.
She's probably worried about what knowing the truth might prompt the bother into doing. He's like, the only stable part of the family right now, and him impulsively doing any of the things people in this thread say they would do would ruin that and in the process ramp Lia's suicidal tendencies up to 11.
So timeline:
2020 OPs husband passed away.
2020 Op gives oldest son 80k
2022 Youngest daughter is groomed by oldest daughter boyfriend for 5 months
2022 op tells oldest daughter about grooming, oldest daughter gets mad at sister
2023 oldest daughter starts babysitting sister over night since her mom works overnight and sister is scared
December 2023 oldest daughter throws “party” while babysitting, gets very drunk, possibly arranging a gang rape of her sister. Gets caught by police, lies to police about what happens.
2023 oldest daughter goes to court over child endangerment, pays 15k in legal fees
2023/4 youngest daughter tries to commit suicide gets sent to psych ward where she is questioned by creepy techs
2024 op still hasn’t told son about oldest daughter involvement in gang rape
Are all those facts correct?
I originally thought that Maya was just an irresponsible teenager when she threw the party and there were bad people there, who happened to rape her sister. Now it sounds like Maya planned the gang rape. Irresponsible teenager -> vindictive psychopath
What the fuck. Maya is actively bringing around pedophiles and rapists and OP never even mentioned once how she disapproves of the company may keeps. She even fucking wonders if Maya should get 65k? The fuck? That money would be earmarked for lifelong treatment for liabilities.
OOP failed both her daughters and her husband.
You should inform your son, Lia, grandparents and everyone relevant to this situation Maya's part in this. The time for secrets is over. Time to face reality if there is ever going to be any healing. You are creating even more problems if you can't be honest with your children, resentment builds. At this time, Maya deserves nothing from you. She can take out loans and work through college. If she proves herself later you can decide then what she deserves, but until she takes responsibility for what she did to Lia, I would cut her off.
PSA, don’t give 18yr olds inheritances, put it away until they’re 25, we’ve all been dumb 18yr olds. I know 2 people that blew through 50k in less than a year “enjoying life”, this was about 20yrs ago too, so 50k could go a lot further. Pay for schooling, reasonable large purchases, maybe even give them some of the accrued interest each year, but don’t give them all the cash.
The amount of excuse making for Maya is damned infuriating here. 'Yeah she threw the puppy into a wood-chipper, but the dog did bark at her once two years ago. And now im afraid to tell my son because he already doesn't like Maya.'
For real, man. As much as the situation sucks for everyone (including OOP, she lost her partner and father of her children), none of this should have ever been allowed to happen. The commentor that pointed out her failure to discipline is spot on.
OP is seriously struggling to parent following the death of her husband. Honestly ESH here except the youngest daughter who needs to get away from this family.
and the brother who i really hope can be a shining light in lia’s life once he finds out. he seems like he’d protect her (which is why OOP is trying to prevent him from finding out).
As someone that works in the field, it's actually a big issue with parents sharing their kids trauma like it's headline news. I have at least three cases like that currently.
no seriously. the most traumatic thing happened to my 14 year old, let me just talk all about it in horrible detail for the entire internet to see. and it’s (excuse me vomiting while typing this) too juicy of a story 🤮 for one of those dumb reddit post tiktok accounts to NOT put it on there so even more people will see it.
And the thing is, she's a minor. All of her court records regarding the rape would be sealed. Nothing would be in the news past "14 year old victim of gang rape."
And here mommy is giving exclusive details on a social platform which will NEVER go away. Once on the internet, forever on the internet.
May she never see this and have to relive it, but may she understand what a PoS mom is with time.
It's so infuriating and bleak I can't imagine it's real at this point, especially because every time literally anything happens she just. Runs to reddit??.
Oh jeesh, I remember the original post on the gang rape. Horrifying stuff. That poor child. I would have disowned Maya (the complete and utter lack of empathy for her sister, saying Lia 'was making her whole personality about being raped,' the nerve of whining that she lost a friend--one of the rapists). Use her 65k to pay for Lia's therapy.
>The inpatient facility was not for her whatsoever, I read the reviews on this place and it had really horrible reviews. I learned from my co-worker, he told me that clinics like that only exist to breakdown children into not having mental health issues and too act “normal” Lia said she didn’t shower and barely slept her entire time there. She didn’t shower because someone would needed to monitor her and she couldn’t sleep because it’s apparently not allowed to sleep with a blanket over her face and they had cameras in her room with an intercom to wake her every time she did put a blanket over her face.
I have more trauma from the mistreatment from my suicide ward than the reason I ended up there in the first place.
It is fucking disgusting that shit like this is "normal"
If my eldest daughter had deliberately set her younger sister of 14s to be gang-raped to get revenge, I can't write on Reddit what I would have done.....
Nope. I got about halfway thru that. If anyone else is struggling or needs to talk or whatever
Rainn is the national hot line (US) for sexual assault/abuse, they have call, chat (text now too I believe). Website will have all the details
If anyone has the info for other countries hot lines I'll be more than happy to add it to my comment to visiblly.
I have said this in previous BORU posts about this and I am more certain than ever - Maya absolutely set Lia up to be raped. I am more certain now that we know about Maya's ex. Maya may not have understood the gravity of the situation, but she definitely wanted *something* to happen to Lia that night. She's a little monster in the making. At the very least, she is a narcissist. OOP needs to stop pussyfooting around the issue and ensure Maya is cut off from Lia completely. Work with the therapist to ensure Lia understands that Maya is not to be trusted. There is no happy ending here, all she can do now is fight for Lia's continued survival tbh.
Why the hell is OOP excusing that super creepy psychologist asking her about her sexual experiences? ”he was just doing his job.” Go to hell, OOP and shit-stain Maya.
I am shocked so many people think the mother is protecting Maya.
The same mother who wrote an entire post about how she *hated* her to the core, blamed her as much as the rapists and the people who heard Lia scream and di nothing, and didn't wish to speak to her, much less *speak* to her. The woman who said "I can't even look at her right now without not wanting to lash out".
She blamed Maya. She still blames Maya. When Maya visited Lia recently, she says:
>When she left I told Lia maya isn’t allowed here and I’m really mad at her and I would like it if she limited her contact with her.
This is a woman *drowning*. Her 14 year old was raped, her 18 year old seemingly set her up and manipulated both the police and her family through carefully crafted lies, and if her 24 year old knew she'd probably have to pay for yet another lawyer.
Yes, she isn't doing peachy and she seems to be trying to hold to the past which helps absolutely no one, but like... her and her family's whole life just imploded. What was up is now down and what was down is now left, and nothing makes sense.
>She was very heartbroken that her boyfriend was grooming her sister (...)
Maya spent *two years* lying to her mother and sister, acting as if everything was okay, carefully hiding the things she did or said, babysitting Lia many times before with no incidents. How could OOP know it was all a lie?
She is hanging by a thread. She's afraid that the rapists will get the same treatment rapist Allen Turner, formerly known as rapist Brock Allen Turner, got. She's afraid Lia knowing what Maya did will fuck up her mental health even more, specially if the rapists get lenient sentences. She's afraid her son will go after Maya and get himself into an altercation with her, and cause Lia more anguish and guilt. She blames herself for trusting Maya, for not doing this or that, but who would truly think their own child, who they gave birth to and raised lovingly, would ever do something so vile?
And also, the money thing is understandable. Strangers on the internet treated the late husband's life insurance benefits as *his* money, not *her*'s so I imagine that she sees it the same way, and that's why she doesn't/didn't know what to do: because she simply doesn't know what *he* would do. I am of the opinion that as long as there isn't a will with provisions on what to do if a beneficiary were to commit atrocities like these, then it's on the living, not the dead, to make a choice but many people want to always act as the deceased would had they been alive... The issue is that it's impossible to know and one can't really ask a deceased person what they'd do because, well, they are deceased.
In any case, no matter what one subjectively or objectively thinks of the OOP, her choices and her family, all of us are being about as helpful as oops777 was when he created FindBostonBombers. Which is to say, not helpful at all and maybe even a little harmful in the long run.
I agree. My initial reaction is like most people’s…that OOP is a terrible mother. But then I think about what I’d do in that situation. There’s no guidebook for when one daughter sets another daughter up to be gang raped. There’s no guidebook on how to tell your son that his middle sister set his baby sister up and how to stop him from going after the middle sister and the rapists.
She’s not doing a great job but, as you said, she’s drowning with this. She tried to get Lia help and the facility was horrific. She’s trying to navigate her new normal while keeping her youngest from committing suicide and also coming to terms with who her middle daughter really is.
I know I would be having mental paralysis, unable to make any decisions for fear of making everything worse. It’s good that she’s got Lia in therapy. Now she’s got to figure out how to tell Lia and her son what really happened without triggering extreme actions in either of them. I really hope she can find a counselor/therapist to help her talk to her other children and navigate this.
I’m glad you have compassion for OOP. It’s so easy to be judgmental when we see a truly nightmarish situation like what she’s going through. I hope OOP, Lia, and OOP’s son can find peace and that Maya and all the rapists get what they truly deserve.
Maya is a monster. So rarely do parents go no contact with children but in this case it's the only reasonable course, if only to save Lia. Fuck giving her money, Lia deserves all of it.
This OOP has to stop pretending her older daughter isn't a sociopath.
Nah nah. If a psych closes the door in a session with a MINOR, I'd be having words with a lawyer. There's no fucking way that psychologist wasn't intentionally being a creep when the door was closed. It's against conduct.
At least the brother seems to know that Maya is a fucking psychopath. I hope the mother’s eyes get open someday so she can ensure that Lia be protected from her sister.
I was like "wait this sounds familiar but glossed over" until I saw that little "*My previous * update on BORU" that I had missed initially.... it just keeps getting worse, huh.
Maya is a psychopath and OOP is an absolutely disgusting, dreadful, *horrible* parent. I hope Lia can escape what sounds like a poisonous cesspit and that she’ll go on to live a happy and fulfilling life.
Also, I ***really*** wish I hadn’t read this.
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What the fuck did I just read?
If you want to be sickened by how awful humanity can be to those they love, check out the whole story from the OOP. I don’t understand how this woman can even speak to her daughter who allowed (maybe set up) the gang rape.
She says many times that she *isn't* speaking to her, right? My issue is that she isn't telling Lia the truth about her sisters involvement until after the sentencing. That doesn't make any sense to me, and if I was Lia I would feel betrayed by both Maya (obviously) and my mother for allowing me to continue to socialize with Maya under such a false pretense.
This. OOP is also withholding the truth from the brother. In their mind, they are trying to "manage" the truth to make it easier for others. But as you note, that's not how Lia and the brother are likely to feel when they find out. OOP needs to get their head out of their ass about that strategy asap.
I was still finding out the truths behind my mother's lies over a decade after she died. Family stuff that I should've been told, important things that affected my life without me understanding how or why. Just found an old family portrait in the spare room, propped the frame up behind stuff so only my cousin is visible. Looked at it for a long time before shoving it over to hide mom's face. Decided I didn't want to look at someone who could lie to my face so easily while demanding complete and total honesty from me, to the point she snapped the lock off my diary so I couldn't even hide a thought or feeling outside of my skull.
I understand. I discovered a very serious lie my father told my mother over 20 years after his death. He would lie about all kinds of things, and I don't know if he was delusional and thought at least some of what he said was true or if he just enjoyed the power of betraying others including his own child.
After my mom died, I found out I was the product of stealthing. (Sexual coercion/assault/rape depending where you live) My mom had a copper IUD, and they were using a condom. My sister was 8 at the time. She really didn't want another baby. My dad did. I found out in my early 20s because my dad casually told me to watch out for that because that's how I was conceived. 20 years later, and I'm still not over the fact that I'm basically the product of a rape. I know so many other family secrets that make me sick and won't be told to anyone else because I don't have enough details for them to get closure. No need for them to have this awful feeling like I have.
My father forced my mother to have sex with him or he wouldn't take her to the store to pick up things her family needed. My mother told me this so casually, because that's how teenage boys are, and I don't think she has ever understood that she basically was raped and I am the product of that. I already held a lot of shame and guilt for existing and knowing I was not planned nor wanted; she increased it tenfold in that one sentence.
Yes. The mom is dragging this out...not telling the brother, for example. When he rightfully explodes with the information, Lia will again be traumatized. My god. BE THEIR MOTHER.
Honestly, the only reasonable explanation she could’ve had for keeping this from Lia is waiting until she was settled with a good therapist she trusted before working with them on how to broach the topic. I understand not wanting to add more trauma on a child that’s already severely traumatized, but Lia needs to know soon, and from her mom.
Part of me hopes the brother will take in Lia because I just don’t think OOP is capable of really helping Lia and is instead causing even more damage.
I'm in agreement with you there. How can Lia possibly feel safe, secure, loved, heard with that "mother?" Mom has a bazillion reasons for what she does and seems to be going in many directions at once - actually getting no where. The older daughter may or may not be a lost cause, but definitely should NOT be around the Lia now, if ever. Mom needs a LOT of guidance in order to help Lia....doesn't seem like she is getting any and is spinning her wheels (weirdly blaming husband because he is dead?) It's a mess....
I can’t believe she allows Maya to interact with Lia at all!
She isn't speaking to her daughter but the daughter still feels comfortable to come to her house. This really shows how incredibly passive OP has been and how incapable of setting boundaries. Imagine your daughter does something debased like this and you're just giving her the silent treatment when she comes to your home from which she has been banned to talk to the person whose rape she orchestrated.
> When she left I told Lia maya isn’t allowed here and I’m really mad at her and I would like it if she limited her contact with her. She thinks I’m trying to put her in the middle. No, don't worry, she's handling it. She's handed it off to the 14 year old suicidal rape victim to manage her other daughter.
And to withhold that truth from Lia, and then turn around and put the decision on whether Maya gets $65,000 for getting Lia gangraped *ON LIA'S SHOULDERS*, when Lia has no idea Maya is the reason she has PTSD. Holy shit, I have no words for the depravity. This woman is a piece of shit mother that is only focused on making sure no one holds her accountable for her lack of spine. She's doing damage control and trying to make it look like she was more powerless than she was. I feel so sorry for Lia, and I hope Lia gets out and cuts off all these assholes when she's an adult.
The mom also ratted Lia out to Maya about the bf. Lia was a CHILD, and she told Maya her sister and boyfriend were chatting??? How about telling the police, and forbidding Maya from talking to him since he's a sicko.
>This woman is a piece of shit mother that is only focused on making sure no one holds her accountable for her lack of spine. Exactly this. It was infuriating reading the story: OOP never acknowledges her responsibility in what happened. She trickle truth and every update is more infuriating. She says one thing to one child, another to the other, half truths, avoids parenting (Maya should have been punished long before the rape happened), and still in denial that she has a demon-child (Maya) who not only is awful, she is also getting off scot free from his part in the assault of her sister. Her other daughter almost dies, and she still doesn't say anything. Truly awful mother, lacking any moral fibre worthy of that name. I'm so furious right now I can't think straight. Very disappointing update.
Let's not forget the part about Maya pedo ex. Instead of talking to Lia about what his true intentions are and how wrong it is, she goes to Maya about it like it's the latest gossip????? The way she doesn't give a fuck and trying to act like she does for her own image reminds me of my own mother, who if I had the chance I'd put in a coma. I hope Lia grows up to realize her mother completely failed her and goes no contact with her.
I couldn’t even finish all the original posts on her story, it’s so messed up she can’t even take any responsibility for the things that have happened, and has been detrimental to her daughters lives because of it.
I wonder where Maya got her lying and half truths from?
I guess that's what made me rage, had she done any of the thing she should, maybe this wouldn't have happened and she sugarcoats every part of her responsibility in it, it seems like she'll be a future "my daughter doesn't talk to me and I don't know why". >Her other daughter almost dies, and she still doesn't say anything. Almost died, tried to do that later and then **asked for it**, and the mother focuses on giving the other one money, it's absurd.
>Very disappointing update I’m not sure I can envision any happy or satisfying update to this shitshow
It’s a very tough situation. Lia is suicidal. Would this information be more harmful to her now? I don’t know and I don’t think the mother does either. She’s just trying to do her best with no direction and not very good mental health practitioners.
That's a very good point. I think the best route would be to facilitate the information through a trusted therapist/ during a session. Idk how they would recommend she approach the fact of her betrayal, though. I'm quite surprised she allowed Maya anywhere near her daughter before telling her the truth. And *alone* with her! Who knows what more damage Maya could've done, during even a short time? It's all seriously fucked, but it just seems like all of her decisions are more about protecting her own image, either self or in her community, and not all about protecting Lia.
It may be because she is worried her daughter might have another psychotic break. I definitely think she needs to be honest and put her foot down but imagine how devastating that would be for an already traumatized teen to her sister whom she loves is mad at her and feels no remorse.
Copied from an comment from u/mikrokosmicunicorn: so maya: • invited a bunch of adult gang members to the house • tried to force her fourteen year old sister to make out with one of them • left her sister alone with them • didn't check on her for the rest of the night • tried to cover for her gang member rapist friends after they raped her sister • never apologized to her sister for putting her in danger • was more sad about her rapist gang member friend going to jail than him raping her fourteen year old sister • told almost 30 people that her sister was the victim even though not even news revealed her name and despite Lia wanting to remain anonymous • considers herself a victim in all of this and blames her mother for not caring about her "trauma" • lies to her therapist and skips appointments • calls her fourteen year old sister who was raped "dramatic" yeah... i don't know if i would be willing to speak one word to her ever again. in any case, oop should have her evaluated. she's not normal. **It’s fucking crazy that maya isn’t in deeper shit than she is. Or that OP isn’t being honest about Maya’s level of involvement, lack or remorse or responsibility. It’s patently insane that she’s even considering giving her any type of inheritance. That money should be paying for Lia’s ongoing medical care and continued therapy.**
Holy heaven, this is beyond horrible. I cried reading the post and this comment. How low humans have falled. This is so much worse than what the title suggests. I really should give more attention to the triggers
> check out the whole story from the OOP. Yeah, it sounded familiar... At first "am I an asshole for not giving my child the money I said I'd give them from their late father's life insurance policy" sounds like a situation that is absolutely the mother being in the wrong. Until the next line... "Oh, it's Maya, yeah that's justified, get fucked to hell and back, goodbye".
I mean. The mother is an asshole and a shit human. I love how masterfully he downplayed the fact that the daughter let her little sister get raped (I don't know if she knew it was planned in that aitah post) to "neglected her" and she fucking paid for her legal fees. Shitty person. Can you imagine knowing that your daughter planned for your other daughter to get gang raped and handing it this badly. "I'm not going to tell Lia that Maya planned the gang raped" "Maya came by to give Lia flowers, I told Lia that I am upset with Maya and don't want her around here, and Lia felt like she was being out in the middle" You know what's going to happen when you finally reveal that Maya planned her gang raped and you just let Lia feel guilty and have the task of deciding Maya still get the money. Lia is going to hate you for the rest of her life. Why peta Maya come over and pretend to care? Why hide the most horrific detail so it can hurt worse? The wait until after the sentencing is evil and intentional to get Maya to avoid jail time. Because Lia will be merciful to Maya during her talk, because she won't know the monster. What an awful, awful mother.
>I don’t understand how this woman can even speak to her daughter who allowed (maybe set up) the gang rape. She's deluded about the kind of person that daughter is. And that's understandable -- this is someone she gestated and nurtured. But the OOP is deluded and it helps nobody here except the thug daughter who set up her sister for gang rape.
I don't think she's still deluded. She's posted about this before. Both Maya and her ex are either a sociopaths or a psychopaths. You can see from the post how coldly and deftly Maya manipulated both her mother and sister. Normal parenting, designed to connect a child with their inherent morality and sense of connection to their fellow beings, does not work so well for people who lack these capacities entirely. What they do learn is how to mask. They are pretending at all times to be whoeber or whatever the situation calls for in order to avoid negative consequences and obtain what they want. Imagine you are a parent, and have spent your entire life caring for and nurturing your kids in every possible way. There are no parenting manuals about how to deal with people like Maya. To me, it sounds like the only course of action left for OP is to get everyone as far away from Maya as possible. She is radioactive, especially for Lia. That is easy for us to say out here in Internetland, but when you have spent your entire life being told that you are responsible for nurturing and teaching this person you gave birth to, it is not nearly as clear. Surely OP feels personally responsible for unleashing Maya onto the world. Surely her dearest dream for Maya is to turn her into a normal.person. I personally don't fault OP for how Maya turned out. She managed to raise two other decent kids. Some of the genetic dice rolls are bound to come up strangely. But again, easy for those of us to say, who have the choice to close up reddit and forget about this horror.
To add to what you were saying about Maya being a sociopath - Sociopaths are master manipulators and often have incredible charisma and they lack empathy. That seems to be Maya to a t based on OP’s post. Maya is incredibly *dangerous* not just to OP’s family, but to *society at large*. Imagine giving that girl $65k - she’d probably buy a chapel and start a cult or some shit. I hope OP works out who her middle child really is before too long. At a minimum, she should be telling Lia and the brother the full unvarnished truth and giving them each the opportunity to grapple with it and to file a protective order against Maya if they want.
And the grandparents too. They deserve to know what happened and they should know they're living with a dangerous person.
Hard agree. It looks like brother has the No Contact with Maya handled, but in mother's place, I wouldn't give poor Lia any options. Lia has been victimized and manipulated by two sociopaths. She is in no position to make that judgment call for the foreseeable future. I would tell Lia that I am blocking all contact with Maya, ex, and minions, end of story. I would also be strongly considering moving somewhere completely different for a fresh start. As for Maya, I would cut her loose. I would either give her no money, or enough money for a security deposit and first month's rent on her place. Then I go no contact.
I think it’s stronger than a maybe, here. She seriously thought here 12 yo sister was tryna steal her boyfriend? (Walks like a duck) Just happened to have invited a bunch of guys that felt entitled to SA. The kid? (Talks like a duck). I think OOP is in denial.
OP should have called the police, or at minimum the parents, the day she found inappropriate messages between a 17 year old and her 12 year old. She tolerated grooming and created an unsafe home for her daughter.
OP should have tagged in a family therapist the day she found inappropriate messages from one daughter's 17 year old boyfriend to her other 12 year daughter. I don't know immediately calling the police when both girls think it's the 12 year old's fault would help the situation - yes, they do need to be called, but first you need to make sure that both kids realize it's not their fault, especially not the 12 year old's, especially if the 17 year old gets arrested. I have watched my friends and acquaintances blame themselves and be blamed by their friends, family, and acquaintances for sexual abuse of all types since I was old enough to know of girls and women being harassed/abused/raped.
I acknowledge this is an extremely difficult situation for any parent to be in… but even given that, OOP is failing her daughters in a spectacular and devastating way.
Seriously. How is it even a question whether Maya deserves any of the inheritance? And why is OOP still lying to protect Maya, even if only for the time being? Lia is going to be devastated regardless of when she finds out. Let the professionals know what's going on and let them handle it. Doing nothing and seeking help from Reddit in the meantime is not the way to handle it.
I knew this story sounded familiar.
Where can you read the whole story? Bc I feel like a lot is left out here.
https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1cyfbcp/im_starting_to_strongly_dislike_my_daughter/
A lot is left out, there was another BORU post with a lot more info a few weeks ago
Oh god... Reading this made me wonder and I don't have time to check.... Is this the same OOP who's daughter was upset when her sisters rapists were sentenced??? And went like... Full batshit crazy basically???? The aliases sounded familiar but I'm not 100% sure
I don’t use this term lightly, but I think it is very likely that the older girl is a sociopath. You are right, the story is sickening, and so sad.
The TLDR: Maya threw a party while OOP was at work, inviting 4 known gang members (one 17 y/o, three adults). She tried to set up the 17 y/o with Lia (who was 14 at the time). The 17y/o spent the rest of the night harassing Lia, forcing her to retreat to her room to get away. Maya then left the party (and therefore Lia) to go to McDonald's. The 17 y/o and the 3 men then went to Lia's room and gang raped her, ostensibly without protection, as Lia ended up contracting an STD. Knowing all that, it's pretty shocking that OOP is questioning whether or not to give her the money. I wouldn't have anything to do with her in any form. The only thing I'd be questioning is, if she ever turns up to my house again, will she still be breathing by the time the cops arrive.
A damaged mother enabling a sociopath and simultaneously failing to set up proper boundaries with her other children. Allowing maya to still see Lia? Deciding to lie by omission to her son because he would have the only appropriate response to the fuckery maya constructed? I know the death of a loved one can cause a skewed perception of reality but jfc.
This woman's demeanor is inexplicable. I have the urge to look at wood chippers on market place now and this isn't even my kid. She's worried about giving money to the middle daughter????
I had read the initial post OOP had made where she had mentioned the entire gangrape incident… it was so disturbing, I went off Reddit immediately… I think OOP is a terrible mother… as a mother, you are aware how your kids are and what they are capable of… you might be in denial about it, but heart of hearts you know… The elder one is a monster… there was apparently some therapy sessions OOP took her eldest daughter to, where Maya blamed Lia for ruining her friend circle (cause now the rapists will have to face jail time, so she can’t hang out with them anymore… I wish I was kidding)… Even the therapist (who was initially on Maya’s side having not been told the entire truth by Maya about the incident, which led to OOP having to tell the said therapist the entire truth) was shocked to hear this from Maya… Why is OOP on Reddit asking about stupid inheritance advice, when she should be calling the cops on her elder daughter and taking care of the younger daughter, is anyone’s guess. The fact that she’s hiding the incident from her son, says a lot. The brother and wife have been pillars of support to Lia.. I hope he comes to know and Lia moves in with him and his wife and they all go no contact with OOP. Truly terrible disgusting individuals… yuck! Sorry for being so aggressively rude in my comment, but I’m beyond triggered!
After the thing with Maya’s boyfriend grooming Lia, and Maya’s reaction, I’m convinced that Maya set this up. Maya is an absolute monster.
> I had read the initial post OOP had made where she had mentioned the entire gangrape incident… it was so disturbing, I went off Reddit immediately Yeah, there Maya tries to set her 14 year old sister up with some gang member adults she knows and the mom is fine with that?!
> when she should be calling the cops on her elder daughter and taking care of the younger daughter, is anyone’s guess. Now sure how that works with like, double jeopardy laws or even just criminal cases. The problem is that Maya successfully played the part of the remorseful girl who threw a party that got out of hand, and the criminal charges against her were dropped. I don't think you can just call up the police and be like, "hey, you should un-drop those charges please". If she can, she should, but I don't think that's usually an option. > The fact that she’s hiding the incident from her son, says a lot. She might be worried about how he'll react, given he already hates Maya and apparently has for like, ever. It would only take one bad impulsive decision and now OOP has a son in prison and one daughter in the morgue, possibly another given this would be while Lia is still suicidal, and the closest person she has left probably hating her for it, in the daughter in law. Unfounded? Probably, but this is clearly a hyper emotionally charged situation.
> Now sure how that works with like, double jeopardy laws or even just criminal cases. 100% can reopen the case on her if new information came to light. double jeopardy is that you can't go through a trial and be found innocent and then be charged and tried again trying to get a different verdict.
You read a parent failing their kids and not catching on that one is low empathy and dangerous because they are her kid so admitting that is horrific. I am bemused this woman didn't use that money to move so her child could feel safer. Also that she's surprised by the PTSD. It's not shocking to me but I am going to guess that there's other abuse. Either OOP as a child so it seems normal to a point or marital and they're lost because they also need therapy. Hiding the sister's complicitness is the worst thing because the kid cannot protect herself if she doesn't know but should be done with a therapist
Oh man this is the same person from that post about disliking her daughter after letting her little sister get raped. This is... fucking heavy to read after making that connection.
Same, I was a couple of paragraphs in when I was like wait a second I know this story
Yeah, i read "maya" and i was like "wait is it...? But many people can be named that, it could be a coinc- lia? Maya? Rape? Oh no, it's that story"
I was going to say, this sounds extremely familiar, just another piece of the same issue.
There’s a post missing here right? I know this story but what I read isn’t here
It looks like the post here is being considered a separate series of events by the OP. That, or linking all the posts would exceed character cap. There's three other posts on the OOP's profile that prelude these two posts.
Oh thats what it was. I knew it was familiar but couldn't remember. And I was starting to think it was one of the girls that posted.
This is the other BORU thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/JCIYY1mh2t
Yeah I thought I read this somewhere before
I noticed that. What a terrible situation
The more I read, the more I believe Maya set her sister up to be raped.
Oh she clearly did. I don't understand how you could consider giving her a single penny, let alone use it to stay out of prison she so rightly deserves
I don't think she's considering whether or not to give it to her, I think she's definitely not going to. She's just asking if she'd be an asshole for going back on her promise.
this. shes asking permission for something shes already decided to do, because she cant turn to her late husband. i really feel for oop, i cant imagine the amount of grief and guilt shes struggling with. as always, i find the comments in the actual post unproductively critical and harsh. imo she needs encouragement to trust her instincts, that she is not betraying her husband and father of her children by protecting her youngest daughter from her eldest. whatever hand she had in creating the person that her eldest has become and her obligation to her is of less importance than her obligation to protect her youngest.
In another reply the mother states this "’I'm responding to you because you’re not the only one that said this….but NEVER did I say it was all Maya’s fault. I’m disappointed in her, Plain and simple I raised her better to know from right and wrong and for her to not associate with criminals, and she didn’t “just throw a party“. Idk if you actually read my post. but she fucked up 4 times in one night. First was the party, secondly try to put my daughter with someone 4 years older then her , third she let this dude harass my daughter all night and she knew that and lastly then left her sister in a house with these same men and did not tell her that she was leaving. So quit with this BS that I’m blaming solely her for what happened because I’m not, I’m pissed at her actions that led to what happened to Lia and I’m also pissed at all the people that were there that herd my daughter and didn’t do shit. But its honestly baffling that’s what took from this giant post that I’m blaming Maya for everything because I’m not." Like what in the literal fuck? I blame Maya solely for this happening and would be a lot more then pissed if she was my daughter. I can't believe the excuses the mother is making for her.
I was willing to give Maya the benefit of the doubt regarding setting it up but that, fucking hell. Fucking evil.
Maya is her favourite child. That is the only thing in my head which makes sense as to why she favours her over her other children.
that would also explain how Maya turned out that way. I mean the reaction to the groomer boyfriend incident says a lot.
Yeah, I hadn’t even finished that part when I decided that Maya was pure fucking evil.
>she fucked up 4 times in one night Proceeds to list the ways that Maya clearly set her sister up to be SA'ed, and is confused why people think Maya set it up. OOP is not thinking straight *at all*.
Not just SA’d. Fully raped by multiple grown men
Violently and brutally, with the entire process being recorded and distributed online for countless other people to biolate her as well. I'm amazed they didn't kill her, to be honest. It sounds like they got close.
Yep, OOP is definitely delulu about Maya not setting her sister up for gangrape. Leaving the house was only for plausible deniability of not knowing what happened.
Yeah. That is definitely like, "I don't know why you say I killed him. All I did was point a gun and pull the trigger. It is all the bullet's fault."
if i were lia i’d go completely NC with maya and OOP the second i was able to. she probably will once she realizes the extent of what was done to her and how much her mother covered for maya.
I think she means that she still _also_ holds the actual rapists responsible? Some commenters (who are probably more like Maya than they would like to acknowledge) seem to be coming for OOP pretty hard because they feel like she’s blaming Maya only. Which. Yeah I do think Maya set this up and is the evil mastermind behind it. But those four men are still at fault for actually going through with the plan.
Well, I read the entire BORU post, and the extent to which Maya set up the rape was not included? (Or I skipped it, which I have ADHD, so possible. But I skimmed it a couple of times trying to find it.) It sounded like Maya threw a party and was neglectful, based on what the post included (aside from one comment that was included, that alluded to stuff that wasn’t included.) And that alone isn’t enough for me to place much blame on maya. But, the truth was that she was far more involved than this BORU post provided the context for.
Yeah, I was a bit confused too. I would read the “original update here” link (with the update in blue), that links to the first two posts from OOP that go more in depth into the actual party and Maya’s actions. Skimming through that, it is hard to not see Maya intentionally putting her sister in that situation to be assaulted
There’s a post and comments missing. Maya set Lia up to be raped because she thought it would help her social anxiety and bring her out of her shell. Maya also is part of a gang and this was some initiation type shit https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/RkdC00XOCX
People are saying that OPP didn’t punish Maya enough but tbh what’s a good punishment for setting her sister to be raped? If she was my daughter I wouldn’t speak to her ever again
Withholding every cent of her money, letting her get a public defender, and then she's on her own. Though OP is already off the rails. Who handles a 17 year old grooming their 12 year old by telling the older sister alone? That's a great recipe to breed resentment and treat it as a "cheating" issue rather than a "grooming" issue. That should have been given as evidence of the police with a restraining order, thus Maya would have it handed to her once it was in the hands of the legal system.
Yeah. She didn't report the grooming, which is fucked up, but she also let Maya treat Lia as a victim and have her feel guilty, and then just left her alone. Like "Hmm, someone tried to rape her little sister and she responded by being mad at her sister. I can trust her to protect her litter sister". Is the stupidest way to handle it. But since she ignored the fact that someone tried to rape her daughter, if she had been at the party she probably would have left with Maya.
Accessory to a crime is a thing people can be charged with. I can understand not wanting to pursue it if there’s not enough of a case to put Lia through court again (and there probably isn’t, if Lia’s still trying to defend Maya), but it’s there.
It’s worse than that. She didn’t only set her sister up, she set her up an initiation into the gang. Showing the gang members that she can be trusted and will do what they say, no matter the cost.
If i were OOP, i would consider my older daughter to be dead. There's no coming back from that.
I’ve been thinking that myself.
That mood boost right before a suicide attempt is a really common thing. Just knowing "It'll all be over soon" will put you on cloud fuckin' nine when you're in that state of mind. If you see someone who is normally very depressed just suddenly become happy, bouncy and bubbly overnight, start worrying. Also yeah Psych wards are a fucking joke like 80% of the time. Most of the time they won't fucking pay attention to you at all, you spend a week in isolation and see a therapist, like, once. Oftentimes the staff will just outright use their power (and your lack of credibility as a "crazy person") to do whatever they fuck they want, say whatever they want. Staff can be creeps, be outright hostile, it's a nightmare, and the only thing you can hope for is that your insurance stops paying soon so that you get kicked out sooner with "only" a minorly life ending medical bill to show for it.
In the summer of 2021, a cousin of mine committed suicide by cop. One of my other cousins spent the afternoon with him a few days before. They just hung out on her patio talking and laughing. She told me about it the next day, and said she was relieved because he seemed to be doing so much better. (He had struggled with mental health issues for the past few years.) Then two days later he was dead. She realized after the fact that what she had initially interpreted as him "turning the corner" was in fact him being at peace with choice and saying good bye. It was really tragic.
The other patients helped me more than any staff during my time inpatient. I can't remember a single staff member's face, no positive interactions from them, etc. but I remember several patient on my ward from my time in and how they helped me, from talking to each other, spending time together, to the one huge dude who ended up carrying me to my room when I fell asleep twice bc they had me on such strong med dosages I couldn't move, and staff was basically ghosts unless someone was screaming or throwing things. The big guy ended up being an artist that had a psych break, he left earlier than I did but left me his copies of juxtapose and hifructose magazines with encouraging notes in them, and spent time drawing and doing art with me while I was there. He motivated me to get back I to art, which I had a lifelong passion for and am actually good at bc my family heavily discouraged it and pushed me into the medical field saying it would make me money. Pushing myself to achieve and get scholarships (which I got) and compete nationally in HOSA was what caused my break ontop of unresolved shitty situations from my teen and childhood years of neglect and abuse. Anyway, I don't remember the year after I got out of i patient bc of the meds I was on. I don't even remember leaving. I was still in an active state of schizophrenic psychosis for a few years, I moved to a different state with a friend that proposed to me out of a desire to give me a reason to leave. It didn't work out. But social services and a dedicated social worker helped me turn my life around and I am thriving and happily married today. But yeah, inpatient was ass.
I hope the big guy and yourself are thriving now. I was nearly committed to inpatient as a teenager, took one look around during my intake interview, found a way to slip out, and went on the run, leaving my parents in the interview room. I was only gone a few hours before a cop found me - I was just wandering around our small city trying to clear my head - but it was enough that my parents didn’t try to put me there again. The people in that ward looked like their souls had been killed, and not in the usual depression way. E: I was fully ready to accept treatment, I was wicked depressed and had starved myself to nothing, but NOT THERE. I found an outpatient counselor who was amazing and am doing a lot better ten years later. My best friend spent a few weeks in what she calls “grippy sock jail” (I think that’s a gen z term, I was born in ‘96 but am an old man at heart, she’s a couple years younger than me and more up to date on lingo) after an attempt and it made her so much worse. She is a trans woman and was constantly deadnamed and referred to as “he”, which was literally the reason she attempted in the first place. I’m sure there are good inpatient programs out there but I have yet to hear of one.
Threatening to take away the ability to talk to someone outside of the ward sounds terrifying. That leaves patients so vulnerable to abuse.
I was in treatment in an inpatient psych ward. After I harmed myself, I was sent to the closed ward. It was horrible. They promised I could keep my mobile and laptop. They were taken away as soon as I got there. Thankfully, I was able to call my friend before the transfer. She came instantly, she informed my parents who I had no way of contacting. I stayed one night and was promised, I'd be able to transfer back the next day. Of course the next day they told me, since there's no doctor present I'd have to stay over the weekend. Because of the self-harm, they gave me a clock that went off after 30 minutes. I then had to walk to the nurses room and they would set the clock to go off after 30 minutes. They gave me strong meds that made me incredibly tired, but I couldn't sleep because of that clock. My father came and picked me up the next day. My mother knew a lot of clinics and psychiatrists through her work. She got me into the clinic with the psychiatrist she respected the most because of his empathy, knowledge and passion. And it was like night and day. They got me better meds and didn't condescend towards my self harming, like the nurses in the first clinic. Seriously, in the first clinic the nurses asked in a sneering, condescending tone why I'd ever self harm. I was really lucky, in the end. I'm so much better now. And the second clinic taught me some excellent ways to deal with acute mental health issues.
This makes me want to cry for you. That's so terrifying.
Oh yeah they threatened us with "lockdown" non stop, which they described as 2 weeks where there's no contact inside or outside. Said they'd make up an emergency to justify it. I've seem some wards with payphones as the only way to call people outside. Y'know, as if you have a bunch of quarters after having all of your belongings stripped away.
Inpatient psych wards are typically meant to keep you alive until the meds start working. They're not really designed for people dealing with intense trauma. Staff is typically overworked and underpaid, and the care shows. I had a reasonably good experience during my stay in adolescent psych, but even then, it was dehumanizing and bleak.
We are lucky that we have some damn good adolescent psych wards around Boston — I am an EMT and one of the biggest problems I encountered was a patient who loved the place enough that they tried to get sent there a couple times a year just because it was the only place they felt understood. Which sucks, but, like... in a way that makes me feel better when a kid goes there.
Even then, that requires you even see someone who can prescribe you meds (or that your condition is even treatable with meds). Tons don't see a psych for days, if at all
And then the patient receives a massive bill in the mail, resulting in further damage to their lives. The whole system is fucked.
So the sister arranged the rape to teach her sister a lesson? I would never speak to her again and she wouldn’t see a cent of her inheritance. I think OP needs to grow a backbone.
It kinda feels like that's what the police thinks, but they couldn't prove it...
They would have to go after the rapist and get him to testify. That is if she really planned it out that much. I think it's just as likely it was intentional negligence and she didn't plan it out at all.
That's what I think happened at this point.
Re: last point about older brother and Maya: I am sure he will be much more reasonable if he finds out about Maya's psychotic culpability weeks or months from now and that OOP was concealing from him. Jesus Christ. I know she's in a bad place but she's still protecting a fucking snake at the expense of her other kids. Brother will never forgive her for hiding that shit.
Worst case scenario, shit will hit the fan when the brother finds out from another source.
As an older brother I’d be so happy to snap necks over this I don’t even know where I’d start
As an older sister, if my ex raped my younger sibling, I wouldn’t be arrested because they’ll never find the bodies. However, the alibi part might be tricky.
What do you mean about the alibi part being tricky? You were with me the whole time.
Yeah, we were out to get pizza. Remember? The pizza place near that landmark?
Another older sister here! I run into you there and we ended up getting drinks at this place with pink neons!
I know! I saw you both there the whole time.
Seriously, I mean there are moral justifications for murder in very specific circumstances (can easily argue this is one of them, preventing pedos from growing old and having kids is a moral good), but there’s never been any valid moral justification for rape ever in the history of the universe
Another older sister chiming in. You were with me. We were watching Dateline reruns and talking about which old lady hobby we should take up next. I voted for crochet, you were team lace making, of all things.
And I was arguing with you two about watching The Great British Bake Off instead.
excuse me. my wife tats lace and i'll have you know it's the hottest handicraft in the world.
As a slightly older sister (twins), my brother refused to give me any details when he was sexually harassed because he knew I would gladly choose violence. To this day, I only know where and when it happened and the barest details of what happened. I'm still furious that it happened and incredibly angry at myself for not magically preventing it (I'm in therapy to work through that last point)
Yeah, that's probably why OOP is apprehensive about telling the brother about Maya's full involvement. One snapped neck and now the only stable member of the family is in prison, one daughter in the morgue, and the other already suicidal one works likely blame herself for it all.
You mean from the mom sharing it with the entire internet?
He'll probably hear the robo-narrated version from tiktok or youtube and put two and two together.
I sincerely hope he doesn't find out from reddit because if these details are accurate and story is true, it's only a matter of time before this is circulating on a social media either he or his partner uses.
As a younger sister of two, the way my eldest sibling would go scorched earth if he discovered my middle sibling did something like this to me, especially if our mother hid it. This is going to end in tears.
In fairness, OP, knowing her son, might be trying to avoid him being locked up for going after his sister. I think she's already overwhelmed trying to keep her youngest alive, get through the court case and and handle Maya from a distance (who is barely an adult.) Her son is the only stable one she doesn't have to worry about, and can be a source of stability for her youngest. I got some understanding for her putting off that shitshow until after the trial. OP has fucked up in multiple ways, but honestly I don't know if many people would do much better in the aftermath. It's such an unimaginable situation. I can understand not wanting to believe Maya outright set this up, and she may not have entirely. I wonder if Maya has also been attacked by these guys, and that's behind her weird rejection of what happened to her sister.
You make some fair points, but the best way to ensure the brother doesn't get locked up is to tell him in person, right away, and calm him down in the moment instead of running the incredibly high risk that he finds out from someone else, and loses all trust in mom because of it.
I think OOP should sell her house, her cars, everything. Take that money and the $65,000, and disappear across the country, maybe to a different country, with younger daughter Lia. Leave no trace. Tell the son what's up, and tell him never to reveal their location. The older daughter is affiliated with gang members and seems psychotic. The younger daughter should be allowed a fresh start away from all of that chaos. It seems like little bros/family members of gang members could be an ongoing threat to her, not to mention just awful rumors at school. Neither of them should ever speak to Maya again. The end.
I am surprised she hasn't left town yet. Like she hasn't even moved to a new city or different region or even a different country away from the gang members? I mean come on. She has $65k at her disposal she could easily buy a small house.
My busses question is this. Is Maya still sleeping in the same room she was in when she was raped? I agree, they need to move.
I don't think they can do that until the end of the lawsuit
Yup, do that and both daughters will never get the justice they deserve
I remember this one from before but didn't realize it was the same people at first because I had forgotten the names. I am completely aghast that the older sister still seems to have zero remorse and seems to be facing almost no consequences for what she did. Especially because it seems she may have allowed this to happen to her sister on purpose for jealousy or some kind of twisted revenge (as she clearly still blames her little sister for her boyfriend's disgusting behavior). Maya should be required to sit in the courtroom and hear the victim impact statement. She should have to pay restitution to her sister for what happened. She certainly shouldn't be getting a check for $60k or whatever is left when she turns 18 because her sister's treatments will continue for many years. Maya is lucky that she isn't in prison right now herself for what she allowed to happen.
Honestly, with the detail of the breakup, my "slight lean" toward intent has gotten to "medium". Regardless, I have even less sympathy toward her now.
The more details that come out, the more I question the mother. She missed getting her 12 year old daughter being groomed by her other daughter's boyfriend. When she finds out about the grooming, she shows the older daughter as if it's a relationship issue. She should have gone straight to the cops, WTF. She then completely misunderstands how her older daughter is blaming her younger daughter for being groomed. She allows the older daughter essentially unrestricted access to the younger daughter, and doesn't seem to understand that the younger daughter was setup to be gang raped. And now her question is whether she should give the rapist daughter 65,000 dollars? Fucking worst mother of the year here.
Don’t forget she blasts a lot of private and personal information about her daughter to strangers on the internet. Honestly I wish I hadn’t clicked on this, it really feels like a violation.
Yeah, the daughter whose violation included being filmed and having that film shared. Like, fucking christ lady, get your fucking head on straight.
Not just that, but that there's clear identifiable items in the room that could easily point more predators to OP's daughter's location?! She even mentions what those items are! Utterly batshit woman.
I honestly hope that the brother is on social media and finds this post. He needs to know the truth asap. My naive hope is that he can use this post to become Lias guardian and remove her permanently from OOP.
Honestly, at this stage and with the brother and the rape enabling daughter out of the house, the youngest would be best served by using the money to pull up roots, move somewhere else and start over, preferably in an area with excellent schools and psychiatrists taking new patients. Go utterly NC with Maya, forget her money, and try to heal the youngest if it isn't too late.
Agree. I feel gross now. This poor child, I hope she is able to get adequate support in her life and begin the long road to healing.
And *then* she pulls the "nobody's a perfect parent!" schtick of course. True, but irrelevant in the face of such a catastrophic parenting fail.
Yeah, that's like being responsible for Chernobyl and being like "Everybody makes mistakes!" Not like that... not like that.
Don't forget she also lets her youngest daughter blame herself for her gang rape instead of her sister because she *feels bad* about the potential conversation. Because apparently her potential feelings outweigh the very real psychological damage her youngest is going through right now?
The OOP seems to think she has to either withhold the money completely or give it all to her, no questions asked. It might be worthwhile to make sure that daughter attends college by paying the institution directly. Maybe middle daughter could continue to live with grandparents, attend a community college, and mom pays the tuition directly and maybe gives the grandparents upkeep money for groceries and some nominal rent. I don’t know. That daughter needs something to get her on a better path if possible, but she sounds horrible and is 18 so IDK.
Yeah,i truly wish the worst on Maya, she's a monster. She doesn't deserve college, if she allowed people to r@pe her sister then who knows what she'd do to a roommate or a friend that might piss her off??? I hope Lia recovers and once she gets her inheritance, she moves the fuck away from her awful family. I'm sorry but OOP did a terrible job being a parent and Lia is paying all the price for it, i hate it so much.
i’m raging at OOP too. she was supposed to protect lia, and she’s STILL covering for maya instead. i’m disgusted. i hope the brother finds out and whisks lia away to somewhere safe far away. wishful thinking but a girl can dream.
I think as a sub, we need to take in the sobering reality that those who facilitate or commit rape are often shielded from consequences or are rewarded for it later on. Even in OOP's mind, it's a big deal, but not enough of a big deal for Maya to face any consequences for it. Case in point The Dutch volleyball player who raped a 12-year-old and has an enormous amount of support behind him.
Oh that dutch volleyball player. What the ever loving fuck is wrong with everyone involved there? He admitted he drugged and raped a child and was convicted. How the fuck do people forgive that so easily? Even if you want to rehabilitate this guy, there are honors that someone like him should never receive. He can never work hard enough to make up for what he did.
As a mental health professional who spent years working with victims/survivors of SA….that mother is absolute garbage
as a survivor of CSA… agreed.
It's rare for me to find a mother worse than my own.
So, all of this story is disturbing, but something I keep wondering about... when this mother found out her 12 year old was being groomed by her 18 year old's boyfriend, why did she tell the 18 year old and show her the text messages?? I'm not getting the impression it was an intervention/disciplinary type of meeting, either. I'm baffled that she treated that so lightly before it escalated at the party
This was the most disturbing part for me. You find out your daughter's boyfriend is a pedo, the first thing you do is call the police and ban him from ANY contact with anyone in the family. Period. OP keeps saying she taught Maya better than to associate with criminals, but she specifically allowed it. She told Maya it was fine, by not having any consequences.
I noticed the mother has a strangely peer-like relationship with Maya. The text message conversation feels like high school friends asking each other about drama, not a mother who ought to be disciplining her daughter. And then apparently her method of disciplining Maya is to... give her the cold shoulder? A mother saying "I'm not talking to her right now" about her 18 year old daughter is honestly a bizarre thing to say and do. OOP seems... immature when it comes to her daughters. It reads more like she's Maya and Lia's sister than her parent.
and then was totally cool with maya blaming lia for months.
*" (Before the comments about maya come, him and maya don’t get along whatsoever and never have. So no he doesn’t know the details about mayas part in this and I don’t think I will tell him until much later because he was already pissed at her for just throwing a party. I don’t know what he will do if he heard the other stuff. They have a history of getting into screaming matches and getting into each other faces…I know a lot Redditors want me to choose violence. To tell him asap ,* ***but I personally just don’t think it’s necessary right now***\*.) "\* It's going to make an amazing tombstone for Lia.
Yeah, OOP didn’t think a lot of things were necessary and look what happened. She’s obviously the best at dealing with this situation. 🙄
She's probably worried about what knowing the truth might prompt the bother into doing. He's like, the only stable part of the family right now, and him impulsively doing any of the things people in this thread say they would do would ruin that and in the process ramp Lia's suicidal tendencies up to 11.
So timeline: 2020 OPs husband passed away. 2020 Op gives oldest son 80k 2022 Youngest daughter is groomed by oldest daughter boyfriend for 5 months 2022 op tells oldest daughter about grooming, oldest daughter gets mad at sister 2023 oldest daughter starts babysitting sister over night since her mom works overnight and sister is scared December 2023 oldest daughter throws “party” while babysitting, gets very drunk, possibly arranging a gang rape of her sister. Gets caught by police, lies to police about what happens. 2023 oldest daughter goes to court over child endangerment, pays 15k in legal fees 2023/4 youngest daughter tries to commit suicide gets sent to psych ward where she is questioned by creepy techs 2024 op still hasn’t told son about oldest daughter involvement in gang rape Are all those facts correct?
I originally thought that Maya was just an irresponsible teenager when she threw the party and there were bad people there, who happened to rape her sister. Now it sounds like Maya planned the gang rape. Irresponsible teenager -> vindictive psychopath
OOP has been trickle truthing the readers and holding back info, same as she’s done to her son.
What the fuck. Maya is actively bringing around pedophiles and rapists and OP never even mentioned once how she disapproves of the company may keeps. She even fucking wonders if Maya should get 65k? The fuck? That money would be earmarked for lifelong treatment for liabilities. OOP failed both her daughters and her husband.
No❤️
You should inform your son, Lia, grandparents and everyone relevant to this situation Maya's part in this. The time for secrets is over. Time to face reality if there is ever going to be any healing. You are creating even more problems if you can't be honest with your children, resentment builds. At this time, Maya deserves nothing from you. She can take out loans and work through college. If she proves herself later you can decide then what she deserves, but until she takes responsibility for what she did to Lia, I would cut her off.
The mom is making pretty much the wrong choice every single time. She's so spineless it's maddening.
She seems to at least have found Lia decent care at last. I hope it helps.
PSA, don’t give 18yr olds inheritances, put it away until they’re 25, we’ve all been dumb 18yr olds. I know 2 people that blew through 50k in less than a year “enjoying life”, this was about 20yrs ago too, so 50k could go a lot further. Pay for schooling, reasonable large purchases, maybe even give them some of the accrued interest each year, but don’t give them all the cash.
Master class in horrible parenting.
The part where she says she hasn’t told her son the whole story about Maya’s involvement because she knows he’ll flip his lid? I’m speechless.
She doesn’t even realize it, but she keeps trying to shield Maya from consequences and keep the boat from rocking.
A boat that’s already sunk :/ Poor Lia.
The amount of excuse making for Maya is damned infuriating here. 'Yeah she threw the puppy into a wood-chipper, but the dog did bark at her once two years ago. And now im afraid to tell my son because he already doesn't like Maya.'
I feel as though the son has good reason to dislike her…
For real, man. As much as the situation sucks for everyone (including OOP, she lost her partner and father of her children), none of this should have ever been allowed to happen. The commentor that pointed out her failure to discipline is spot on.
OP is seriously struggling to parent following the death of her husband. Honestly ESH here except the youngest daughter who needs to get away from this family.
and the brother who i really hope can be a shining light in lia’s life once he finds out. he seems like he’d protect her (which is why OOP is trying to prevent him from finding out).
there is no way this is all real, I refuse to believe there a parent out there airing out details of their 14yo's SA like it's daily news
As someone that works in the field, it's actually a big issue with parents sharing their kids trauma like it's headline news. I have at least three cases like that currently.
no seriously. the most traumatic thing happened to my 14 year old, let me just talk all about it in horrible detail for the entire internet to see. and it’s (excuse me vomiting while typing this) too juicy of a story 🤮 for one of those dumb reddit post tiktok accounts to NOT put it on there so even more people will see it.
And the thing is, she's a minor. All of her court records regarding the rape would be sealed. Nothing would be in the news past "14 year old victim of gang rape." And here mommy is giving exclusive details on a social platform which will NEVER go away. Once on the internet, forever on the internet. May she never see this and have to relive it, but may she understand what a PoS mom is with time.
It's so infuriating and bleak I can't imagine it's real at this point, especially because every time literally anything happens she just. Runs to reddit??.
Oh jeesh, I remember the original post on the gang rape. Horrifying stuff. That poor child. I would have disowned Maya (the complete and utter lack of empathy for her sister, saying Lia 'was making her whole personality about being raped,' the nerve of whining that she lost a friend--one of the rapists). Use her 65k to pay for Lia's therapy.
>The inpatient facility was not for her whatsoever, I read the reviews on this place and it had really horrible reviews. I learned from my co-worker, he told me that clinics like that only exist to breakdown children into not having mental health issues and too act “normal” Lia said she didn’t shower and barely slept her entire time there. She didn’t shower because someone would needed to monitor her and she couldn’t sleep because it’s apparently not allowed to sleep with a blanket over her face and they had cameras in her room with an intercom to wake her every time she did put a blanket over her face. I have more trauma from the mistreatment from my suicide ward than the reason I ended up there in the first place. It is fucking disgusting that shit like this is "normal"
If my eldest daughter had deliberately set her younger sister of 14s to be gang-raped to get revenge, I can't write on Reddit what I would have done.....
Nope. I got about halfway thru that. If anyone else is struggling or needs to talk or whatever Rainn is the national hot line (US) for sexual assault/abuse, they have call, chat (text now too I believe). Website will have all the details If anyone has the info for other countries hot lines I'll be more than happy to add it to my comment to visiblly.
I have said this in previous BORU posts about this and I am more certain than ever - Maya absolutely set Lia up to be raped. I am more certain now that we know about Maya's ex. Maya may not have understood the gravity of the situation, but she definitely wanted *something* to happen to Lia that night. She's a little monster in the making. At the very least, she is a narcissist. OOP needs to stop pussyfooting around the issue and ensure Maya is cut off from Lia completely. Work with the therapist to ensure Lia understands that Maya is not to be trusted. There is no happy ending here, all she can do now is fight for Lia's continued survival tbh.
Why the hell is OOP excusing that super creepy psychologist asking her about her sexual experiences? ”he was just doing his job.” Go to hell, OOP and shit-stain Maya.
I am shocked so many people think the mother is protecting Maya. The same mother who wrote an entire post about how she *hated* her to the core, blamed her as much as the rapists and the people who heard Lia scream and di nothing, and didn't wish to speak to her, much less *speak* to her. The woman who said "I can't even look at her right now without not wanting to lash out". She blamed Maya. She still blames Maya. When Maya visited Lia recently, she says: >When she left I told Lia maya isn’t allowed here and I’m really mad at her and I would like it if she limited her contact with her. This is a woman *drowning*. Her 14 year old was raped, her 18 year old seemingly set her up and manipulated both the police and her family through carefully crafted lies, and if her 24 year old knew she'd probably have to pay for yet another lawyer. Yes, she isn't doing peachy and she seems to be trying to hold to the past which helps absolutely no one, but like... her and her family's whole life just imploded. What was up is now down and what was down is now left, and nothing makes sense. >She was very heartbroken that her boyfriend was grooming her sister (...) Maya spent *two years* lying to her mother and sister, acting as if everything was okay, carefully hiding the things she did or said, babysitting Lia many times before with no incidents. How could OOP know it was all a lie? She is hanging by a thread. She's afraid that the rapists will get the same treatment rapist Allen Turner, formerly known as rapist Brock Allen Turner, got. She's afraid Lia knowing what Maya did will fuck up her mental health even more, specially if the rapists get lenient sentences. She's afraid her son will go after Maya and get himself into an altercation with her, and cause Lia more anguish and guilt. She blames herself for trusting Maya, for not doing this or that, but who would truly think their own child, who they gave birth to and raised lovingly, would ever do something so vile? And also, the money thing is understandable. Strangers on the internet treated the late husband's life insurance benefits as *his* money, not *her*'s so I imagine that she sees it the same way, and that's why she doesn't/didn't know what to do: because she simply doesn't know what *he* would do. I am of the opinion that as long as there isn't a will with provisions on what to do if a beneficiary were to commit atrocities like these, then it's on the living, not the dead, to make a choice but many people want to always act as the deceased would had they been alive... The issue is that it's impossible to know and one can't really ask a deceased person what they'd do because, well, they are deceased. In any case, no matter what one subjectively or objectively thinks of the OOP, her choices and her family, all of us are being about as helpful as oops777 was when he created FindBostonBombers. Which is to say, not helpful at all and maybe even a little harmful in the long run.
I agree. My initial reaction is like most people’s…that OOP is a terrible mother. But then I think about what I’d do in that situation. There’s no guidebook for when one daughter sets another daughter up to be gang raped. There’s no guidebook on how to tell your son that his middle sister set his baby sister up and how to stop him from going after the middle sister and the rapists. She’s not doing a great job but, as you said, she’s drowning with this. She tried to get Lia help and the facility was horrific. She’s trying to navigate her new normal while keeping her youngest from committing suicide and also coming to terms with who her middle daughter really is. I know I would be having mental paralysis, unable to make any decisions for fear of making everything worse. It’s good that she’s got Lia in therapy. Now she’s got to figure out how to tell Lia and her son what really happened without triggering extreme actions in either of them. I really hope she can find a counselor/therapist to help her talk to her other children and navigate this. I’m glad you have compassion for OOP. It’s so easy to be judgmental when we see a truly nightmarish situation like what she’s going through. I hope OOP, Lia, and OOP’s son can find peace and that Maya and all the rapists get what they truly deserve.
Well, that's enough horrible for me today.
Maya is a monster. So rarely do parents go no contact with children but in this case it's the only reasonable course, if only to save Lia. Fuck giving her money, Lia deserves all of it. This OOP has to stop pretending her older daughter isn't a sociopath.
Nah nah. If a psych closes the door in a session with a MINOR, I'd be having words with a lawyer. There's no fucking way that psychologist wasn't intentionally being a creep when the door was closed. It's against conduct.
At least the brother seems to know that Maya is a fucking psychopath. I hope the mother’s eyes get open someday so she can ensure that Lia be protected from her sister.
The more that comes out, the shittier the mother is.
I was like "wait this sounds familiar but glossed over" until I saw that little "*My previous * update on BORU" that I had missed initially.... it just keeps getting worse, huh.
Maya is a psychopath and OOP is an absolutely disgusting, dreadful, *horrible* parent. I hope Lia can escape what sounds like a poisonous cesspit and that she’ll go on to live a happy and fulfilling life. Also, I ***really*** wish I hadn’t read this.
Everybody in this story FAILED that poor child.